How to Break Barriers and Build Relationships at Work with Brandin Bursa

Hey, I'm Kwame Christian, and you are about to step into the world of Negotiate Anything, the number one negotiation podcast in the world, where we teach you how to make difficult conversations easier while getting more of what you want in the process. Each episode is packed with practical tips and strategies from the experts. We delve into negotiation, conflict resolution, and leadership skills that are crucial in both business and in life. Whether you're closing a deal, managing a team, or navigating personal relationships, Negotiate Anything provides you with the tools you need to succeed. Our conversations are real, relatable, and most importantly, rooted in practicality. So if you're ready to transform your conversations and elevate your negotiation skills, join me on Negotiate Anything. Subscribe and listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you love to listen. Let's make every conversation a winning negotiation.

Brandon, thanks for joining us today.

Thanks so much for having me, Kwame.

Yeah, man, it's my pleasure. So how would you get us started? By telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do.

Absolutely. So I work in the H Vac and refrigeration industry as an account manager. The unique thing is I work for an industry trade association. So our role is to help support two step distribution in the H Vac industry and, and do the most value adding opportunities for our membership.

This is awesome. And out of curiosity, which city did you grow up in?

So I grew up in the metropolis known as Tiffin, Ohio. I bet you know a little bit about that place.

I do. Yeah. So everybody, Brandon and I are good buddies from Tiffin, so we both grew up in Tiffin, Ohio. And a lot of you are saying, where's Tiffin, Ohio? That's exactly the point. Very, very small town. But now we're in, in Columbus and we kept in touch, exciting to reconnect. And the work that you do is really, it's really interesting. It's a really interesting gig that you have. But what's cool to me though is the fact that you've been in sales in both of those positions. So at the end of the day, you're still using the same skills. But I think it's really interesting seeing the commonality of the skillset applied for you in different industries.

I agree, Kwame, and what I really love about being on the nonprofit side of things is how service based we can be. So obviously at the end of the day, dollars and cents are critically important to us being able to maintain and grow our association and our events. But at the same token, we understand that we're not the first line item for our members, but when they need something from our association, we have to be ready to serve. And that's always been the something that I've tried to instill even in the for profit world is I always imagine if you can serve somebody to the best of your abilities on a small thing, the big things come a lot easier.

Yeah, 100%. And I think that's like the foundation of trust too. If you start to get that reputation of coming through on those smaller items, then as the relationship develops, they feel a lot more comfortable going with you when it comes to those bigger issues too.

Absolutely. I've always kind of gone with the mantra like the quick buck isn't worth the long dollar. So that easy solution or sweeping it under the rug because it doesn't seem that big right now, can really just create either challenges down the line or if you do it right, creates so many more opportunities.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. And can you tell the listeners about the difference between your first industry, where you were doing like when you were with Carnegie, and where you are now?

Absolutely. So I read how to Win Friends and Influence People post college because I was kind of having trouble as a millennial connecting with some of the older workforce that was in skilled position. And what that book kind of helped me understand is how to better connect with people, how to be an active listener versus waiting for my opportunity to respond. Once I kind of started instilling some of those Carnegie principles in my day to day life, those relationships got easier. That distance between myself and my counterparts really shrunk to the point where we became friends in some instances. So when I saw how. Not easy because you have to be intentional, but when you intentionally try to apply some of those principles that were written in the early 1900s in today's world, and they work, you're like, whoa, this is unique. So I went to work for Carnegie. It is its own corporation. Dale Carnegie is its own company and did trainings with them, led sessions, private sessions too for organizations just helping them tap into their human capital potential. And it was really rewarding to see when people had those aha moments because they always say like public speaking or speaking in front of others and is one of adults biggest fears in life. So when you kind of see that fear melt away and that confidence come out, it was rewarding in that aspect. So now in my role with our association, we have over 900 member organizations throughout all of North America and now into South America. So having that skill set to talk with others on whatever level they're kind of at. One of the adages was you meet people where they are, and that can mean physically, that can mean emotionally, that can mean mentally. It's just kind of finding that balance. And when you get the skillset to be able to do so, it makes those conversations so much richer.

I agree. And listen, this is so fascinating too, because a couple of things. So first, we're talking about those principles from Dale Carnegie and like you said, written in the early 1900s, but they still apply. The psychology, at the end of the day is more or less the same. Humans evolve very slowly, right? Our societies can change rapidly, but as human creatures, we evolve very slowly. So the psychology that was at play then will be at play now, but just in different contexts. And I really love the fact that you talked about the fact that you're a millennial. I'm a millennial too. And when we're in the business world as younger people, sometimes it can be challenging to create that connection. And so for younger people who are having difficult conversations or just joining the workforce in general, sometimes they can be intimidated by the age difference. And then it almost creates these self fulfilling prophecies where they say, oh, we're so different generationally that we cannot connect. So for young people coming into the workforce, what advice would you give them as it relates to connecting with some of their older colleagues?

I think the desire to connect has to be there, right, Kwame? Because most of us possess the skills to connect if we truly want to or have enough desire to do so. So again, going back to intentional, everything has to be intentional. And it's even that much more magnified on the front side of relationships too, because we're human nature. To your point, as far as we make quick judgments on things, because that's how we had to survive in the past, right? We had to decide if something was, you know, frightening or not frightening, is it going to eat us or not? You know, so like, to your point about human nature evolving slowly, we still have that aspect as well. So you can't always guide how someone perceives you right off the bat, but you can guide what those next conversations are going to be like or how you present yourself. And a lot of that also goes back to, like, empathy as well, because, you know, you have to understand, again, where are they at and where are you at? Are you a threat to them? Do they see you as, you know, potentially taking their position or something along those lines? So there's always that innate fear, I think, on both sides of the equation when you Come into a new workplace, whether you're younger or older, there's that desire to be wanted.

Oh, Brandon, this is such a really good point. When I think about it, sometimes when I think about some people who might describe challenges connecting with other people, oh, we're so different. We can't connect. I think at the root of it, they might not themselves want to connect. Right. That desire, that aspect of desire is so crucial, so critical. And I really think we don't spend enough time talking about that because we talk about the barriers and then we talk about how to overcome those barriers, but we don't talk about how to create that genuine desire to want to connect with people. And I think now more than ever, when we're connecting through screens, connecting through texts, we're always focused on our other things, and our attention spans are shorter. I really think in a lot of cases, that fundamental desire to want to connect and create a relationship isn't there.

I was at a keynote the other day, and a listener walked up to me and said, hey, Kwame, my favorite part of the show, it's the ads. He was the only person who said that, though. If you don't like ads, maybe you should consider joining Negotiate Anything Premium, where you can access insights from your favorite negotiation experts with ad free listener and extended episodes. Bonus, you'll also get access to exclusive solo episodes and personalized advice from yours truly. If you've been looking for an easy and affordable way to level up your skills and negotiate more of the best things in life, join our premium community. Click the link in the show notes to learn more. And now enjoy this commercial. And so, for that gentleman who told me he enjoys the commercial, this one's for you.

For you. What was that driving force to even have that genuine desire to connect with other people?

Good question, Kwame. It's probably deep seated within me because I'm the youngest, and so my oldest brother is five years older than me, so that's a pretty healthy gap as far as, like, growing up. So, like, when he was in eighth grade, I was just a little third grader, right? But you want to play with your brother, you want to play with your friends. So if you're playing football and you get tackled or something like that, and you get hurt, you can't let them know you're hurt because then you got to go up and mom won't let you play with them anymore. So you got to be tough, right? So I think that for me personally, some of that desire just came from being the youngest and almost like wanting to again have that be, wanted to be accepted into the group. So that's probably where my personal drive comes from to have that desire. And I would say for others, if that's not their particular instance, what I tend to find is the valley is deeper than it is wide. From people who don't see eye to eye. It's typically like they share so many more things in common than they don't. It's just the things that they don't share in common are typically like high flashpoints, you know, like really emotional based things verse out of like factual based things. So that's kind of where I can see some of that massive divide and, and again some of that's generational, some of that's experiential. And once you start to see and if you have the ability to recognize or if you have the skillset to ask the questions to help start seeing how that valley again, it can be bridged because it's not so wide, it's so deep.

That is so profound. The valley is deeper than it is wide. I think that's, that's one of the most profound things that I've, I've heard on this show. That's so good because it makes a lot of sense. At the end of the day we're all people. We want what's best for ourselves and what is best for our family. We're just trying our best, right to make it through day to day. And we have different experiences, we have different backgrounds, we have different ages, whatever it happens to be. But at the end of the day we can still connect human to human and then we can build upon that connection and create a relationship. And when you're thinking about those times when you've connected with somebody who is different from you, whether it's age or race or gender or just community, different communities or different companies. What are those tools that you can use to bridge that gap?

So I think open ended questions are almost criminally underused in conversations like that. And you have to be intentional about your how your deeper questions because if you're only going to ask close ended questions, your conversation can die really fast and which then it almost feels like again fulfilling that prophecy. We have nothing in common. This is like talking to a wall type deal. So I think open ended questions are very important when you're trying to build some of that rapport. But at Carnegie we had what was called a conversation stack. So the idea was if you ask this series of questions eventually you're going to land on something where the light starts flashing. So it would start with your name, then it would start with. And it's supposed to be visual in nature. So it's a nameplate falling out of the sky, then it's a house landing. On the nameplate, then coming out of the house are children and family members. And those children and family members are wearing big work gloves. And in their hands they're holding an airplane. And instead of propellers on the airplane, it's tennis rackets. And all of those little aspects are conversation starters. So obviously the first one, nameplate, what's your name? That come from home? Where do you live? What's that like? What town is that in? Children, family, what's your family makeup, things of that nature. The work glove. What do you do? What keeps you busy? Airplane. Where do you want to go? What's the travel? What's next on your agenda? And then finally, tennis rackets. What do you do in your free time? What's fun to you? So the idea is you go through that stack of questions and whatever you see that light up moment, whether it's their family, whether it's work, whatever, you stay there, stay there, camp there, get as much emotional investment from that person at that time, and then everything else flows the same.

That's incredible. I've never heard that before. And I love the use of the mnemonic too, right? The. The visual representation, because that's how you remember things. And the wackier and sillier, the better. The little fun fact. I don't know if I've said this on the podcast, but that's how I used. That's how I did the TED talk. I memorized the whole TED Talk. We're using the mind palace technique and the most ridiculous images connecting them. So it looks like I'm looking into the audience, but I'm looking at the most absurd things in my mind. So I can see how this could be really helpful in the flow of a conversation. And it makes so much sense because just again, human to human, we're touching on some of those key elements. Who are you? Where are you from? That's an integral part of who you are. Do you have a family? Tell me about that. Your friends, family, those type of things, Your social circle and where do you work? Big, right? And then what you do in your free time. Incredible. Incredible. And you're right. And again, it sounds like we're following the energy. There's going to be a lot more energy given to one thing versus the other. Like what's giving them the Energy. One day it might be their family, the other day, you know, their family might be annoying them. And so it's going to be their hobbies. But it gives you an opportunity to flow, find that passion, find that energy, and then connect in a really meaningful way.

Absolutely. And truth be told, we don't have to meet and mingle and match with every single person we meet in the world. You know, it's impossible to put that level of connectivity on each individual interaction that you have. You know, some days, some people are just down. Maybe you're down that day and you don't really want to dive too far into it. And that's okay, because in all reality, unless you're at a conference or something like that, you're probably going to interact with this person, whether it's coworker, a member of your community, you're probably going to see them. So it's not to say that the conversation has to die right then and there. Some people are just a longer burned. You know, some people, it takes a little while to build that confidence or that trust. But what I've kind of found in those type of relationships where, you know, it's not an instant thaw, those are the ones where you keep, like, almost purposefully going back with a little bit more, a little bit more, and then all of a sudden, the floodgates open and it's everything you thought it would be on the front side. It just took a bit longer to get there.

Oh, man, I love this. I love this, Brandon. This has been exceptional. I really appreciate this. And what I really. What I love about this is how practical it is and actionable, too, because people can take these tools immediately and put it into action to connect with other people. So I appreciate you. Before you go, can you remind the listeners again about who you are, how to connect with you, and a little bit about your company, too.

Absolutely. So, again, Kwame, thanks so much for the invite. Really cool to be able to pull this relationship back together after all the years we spent in Tiffin. So appreciate the opportunity. Again, my name is Brandon Bursa. You can connect with me on LinkedIn. I work in the H vac and refrigeration space. So our association Hardy, is the largest association dedicated to H vac distribution here in the United States and beyond. So really, what we're trying to do is add value to the H Vac channel and to help our members grow their organizations. But beyond that, I just enjoy having chances to grow both professionally and personally. And most of that growth comes through interactions with others, I always say, you know, stand on the shoulders of others to get to where you want to go. We really learn best when we're kind of all pulling in the same direction.

Absolutely, man. I appreciate it. This was great. And listeners will put links to Brandon's organization and his LinkedIn too in this, in the description. Thanks again, man. This was really, really good.

Thank you, Kwame. Take care.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Now, before you sign off, I have something to tell you that I've never told you before. Just kidding. I've told you before, but you should listen to it again. I want you to know about Negotiate Anything Premium. Imagine all of the things that you love about our traditional feed, plus so much more. I know you like our traditional feed because you're at the end of the episode. And with Negotiate Anything Premium, you'll get more bonus content you've been asking for, more of the expert insights that you can't get anywhere else, and more exclusive behind the scenes access into every conversation. Are you ready to get more of what you want out of your life, career, and every conversation? With Negotiate Anything Premium, you'll have access to more high level, custom designed content and insights giving you the tools you need to negotiate higher salaries, better deals, and better relationships in your life and and career. Once I had a listener share that Negotiate Anything helped her to negotiate a $53,000 raise. Could this be you? What would that mean for your life? I've seen firsthand the impact this model has had on my life and the lives of my corporate clients. And I am confident that it can do the same for you. Are you ready to negotiate more of the best things in life? Click the link in the show notes to learn more. Okay. This is great.

What do you think?

Hey, man, it's. I give you what I got.

I love it. I was sitting here taking all these notes. First note, go to Sedona.

That's important.

It was good, man. This was really good. And you were dropping some gems here. The valley is deeper than it is wide. That's so, so good. So good. Yeah, I'm pumped to share this one.

I'm glad we didn't dive too far into Ralph Waldo Emerson because after I texted you that quote, I was like, oh God, I got to go out and buy all of his, all of his essays and self reliance. So in case Kwame really brings out his, his, his big guns, I got a little leg to stand on.

So listen, man, my, my knowledge of like literature is low, so it doesn't take much, man. This Is.

We'll blame that on. On our library. Well, say. Well, we'll say that's the. It wasn't Sister Maureen's fault. She. She was a bad hand.

She was the. I remember. Oh, I remember what time, dude? Oh, you love this. I think I was in detention or something. I was there. I. I was there and I was, like, being punished for. I think I had my cell phone one time. And so I. What. I was so stupid. What I did was I took a piece of paper and I put it into the form of, like, a little box. And then I took my. My wireless headphones and I slithered it into the box and I put my headphones in, and I was. I was dancing like this. And she said, you can't have a cell phone in here. I said, I don't have a cell phone. She's. And then she looked at. She's like, what's under the box? I was like, there's nothing under the box. And I just kept on dancing. Then she moved the box. There was nothing there. Oh, my God. It was so stupid.

Oh, man. It's the little things, though, man. It's the little things. I'll tell you a funny one. So senior year, Mrs. Hayes was our religion teacher, and we were doing, I think, a novena over the course of. However long it takes to do a novena. And one of the things is, she went around the room and we each had to pray for someone. And when it got to my turn, and I swear, Kwame, I know I'm a class clown and I'm a jerk sometimes as far as, like, being a smart ass, but I was like, I want to pray for God. And she was like, what? And I was like, well, think about it. Everybody prays to God, but who prays? That's a lot on his plate. And she was like, no, you're not taking this seriously. Like. And she kicked me out of class. So I go down to the office, and again, senior year, Mr. Mass is pretty cool. The seniors and, like, I'm not typically, you know, a troublemaker in the normal. So he's like. He walks out and he's, brandon, what's going on? And he's going to sit down. He's like, so tell me, how'd you get kicked out of religion class? And I was like, I prayed for God. And he was like, what? And I was like, yeah, Mrs. Hayes asked us all to pray for someone. And I prayed for God because everybody prays to him, but not for him. And he was like, let's Go talk to Father Jim. So we check the third floor, and Father is in class and Mr. Madison's at the door. He's like, hey, Jim, can we talk to you for a second? So, you know, Father writes something on the board. Everybody write that down. So we go into father's office, and he's like, what's going on? I tell him the same story, and he's like, let's go talk to Mrs. Hayes. I get walked down to Mrs. Hayes. Mrs. Hayes's room, this glorious re. Entry into the class. And then she gets pulled out into the hallway to talk to Mr. Mass and the father. Oh, you talk about really bringing that one all through the ranks of Calvert to get back to the winning team. That's.

Bro, that's. Oh, this timing is perfect. This timing is perfect. Hold on a second. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Mom, look who. Look who's on the podcast. Because I'm here, like, in tears, laughing.

Hello, Mrs. Christian, it's Brandon Bursa. Oh, my gosh. Hi. How's your mom? My mom is wonderful. Good for her. Tell her I say hi. I will, I will. How are you doing? I'm doing fine, thank you. Can't complain.

Cool.

That was awesome.

Perfect timing, man.

That really was, man. Oh, that's wonderful. That's wonderful. So glad your mom's doing well.

Yeah, man, this is good. Well, listen, bro, I gotta run. Gotta get to the next one, but, yeah, I'll let you know when this goes live. I'm so excited to share. And I'll let you know when I. When I get my. My AJ's franchise.

All right, buddy, you let me know. I'll be an early investor.

I love it. I love it.