How to Control Your Hormones Before You Ruin the Negotiation — with David JP Phillips

So the interesting thing between men and women is that a man usually has about 20 times higher concentration of testosterone, so their baseline is 20 times higher. But the interesting thing is if you elevate your testosterone levels by various psychological tricks and techniques and you do 10% increase as a woman or a 10% increase as a man, the psychological effects are similar. So even if we have a 20 times higher baseline, it doesn't mean that we get like 20 times output for a 10% increase. So men and women doesn't matter. And usually actually, interestingly enough, when I do these exercises with women, they are usually the ones that benefit most from this.

Hey, I'm Kwame Christian and you are about to step into the world of Negotiate Anything, the number one negotiation podcast in the world where we teach you how to make difficult conversations easier while getting more of what you want in the process. Each episode is packed with practical tips and strategies from the experts. We delve into negotiation, conflict resolution, and leadership skills that are crucial in both business and in life. Whether you're closing a deal, managing a team, or navigating personal relationships, Negotiate Anything provides you with the tools you need to succeed. Our conversations are real, relatable, and most importantly, rooted in practicality. So if you're ready to transform your conversations and elevate your negotiation skills, join me on Negotiate Anything. Subscribe and listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you love to listen. Let's make every conversation a winning negotiation. David, thanks for joining us today.

Thank you. It is a pleasure to be here coming in to you from Sweden of all places.

Yes, it is great to have you my friend and I appreciate you coming in late night your time. So how would you get us started? By telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do.

Yeah, absolutely. As you said, you know it's dark outside here, it's 9:30 in the evening. I just came off a workshop on public speaking, which is what I've been doing for the last 24 years. Never stopped asking the question why? So it wasn't. It's not 24 years of repetition, it's 24 years of curiosity. Yeah, I've got three big TEDx talks I think the second most viewed in the world on public speaking and body language presentation skills. And then I just launched a book like one of the disciplines in public speaking and presentations is self leadership and the book is about that and it's out in 35 languages. This came out in Japanese.

Wow, congratulations. Thanks listeners. The his work speaks for itself but we are excited to have him here speaking for himself in front of us in the flesh. Let's start off by talking about the first book, because there are some incredible correlations between what you're talking about and then what it takes to be not just an effective negotiator or communicator, but just a happy, healthy, functioning human being. So tell us a bit about the book.

So in the book, I go through six neurosubstances. Dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, endorphin, testosterone, and cortisol. And I Give the reader 10 tools per substance on how they can create these at will in themselves whenever they want to. And that gives you superpowers because it allows you to adjust your state of mind, mood, and by. So also your decisions and your interactions with other people. Yeah, it's in a nutshell.

You say it like it is not a big deal, because it definitely is. And first of all, especially when you think about these neurochemicals, this internal cocktail that we're creating with intentionality, it shows how creative and how playful your name, the name of the book is, which is High on Life. And when you think about this, I really want to hammer this home.

The.

The person listening, because you can hear this, and then you can make it kind of like an intellectual type of exercise. Oh, this sounds nice in theory, but if somebody were to read the book and pay attention to what it is that they're going to learn here today with you, how does their life change if they put some of these practices into motion in their lives?

Oh, I think the results are immediate, man. It's like in this. In the book, I refer to a study on negotiation when it comes to testosterone, which is one of the six substances I talk about where it turned out that people who elevate their testosterone prior to a negotiation will more likely walk away with a higher bid. So if you are a negotiator and you do negotiations just by learning how to elevate your testosterone levels will, well, net you a pretty sum depending on how bigger deals you make. So, yeah, that would be just an immediate effect on. On that particular thing.

You know, that's incredible. Let's start there. And first of all, let's start with the disclaimer, too, because I know at least half of our audience said, well, maybe I don't want to elevate my testosterone, David, because I'm a woman. So let's address the. The testosterone, like the gender dynamics of that first, and then let's talk about exactly how we can do it.

Yeah, absolutely. Look at that. So the interesting thing between men and women is that a man usually has about 20 times higher concentration of testosterone. So that baseline is 20 times higher. But the interesting thing is if you elevate your testosterone levels by various psychological tricks and techniques and you do 10% increase as a woman or a 10% increase as a man, the psychological effects are similar. So even if we have a 20 times higher baseline, it doesn't mean that we get like 20 times output for a 10% increase. So men and women doesn't matter. And usually actually, interestingly enough, when I do these exercises with women, they are usually the ones that benefit most from this.

This is fascinating. No, that's, that's very helpful now. So let's, let's, let's talk about it. Let's, let's make it real. So if somebody, the person listening is going into a negotiation, let's walk through how to do this. How soon do they need to start the process and what does the process look like?

There's various ways to approach it. You can have a look at like a long term buildup of testosterone. So imagine this, that you have a, an important negotiation on Friday, and you know that. So you start Monday by what I call stacking victories. Which means that you just look at TV shows that build your testosterone. You look at replays of games which you know the team that you root for is victorious. You look at those things, you play music, which you know, builds that sense of confidence. You do activities which build your testosterone, which is any risk taking activity really. And you just spend that week building that sense until you get to Friday. Now you've stacked so many victories or sensations of testosterone along the week that when you walk in there, you'll naturally have a higher baseline. And obviously working out heavily as well, is also prone to increased testosterone levels. So that's the long game. Like that's a week. Because you have that focus you don't like. The worst thing you can do is go Thursday. You look at something that makes you sad or, you know, a loss, or you go, you look at your TV show and you look at Sons of Anarchy season four like no spoilers. But that's not a good season for that guy. It just goes worse to worse to worse to worse. And you go like your testosterone. Because the reason testosterone is increased is because you root for the protagonist. And if the protagonist is having a bad time, so does your testosterone. So we can relate to the character and by, so our testosterone is reflected in that. So yeah, you have to pick the stuff that you watch. Look at. So that's the long one. But imagine then if we need a short boost of testosterone, what you can do then is there are. There are six scientifically proven ways to increase confidence, slash testosterone. They're not all proven to increase testosterone because they didn't study that, but closely related. Yeah. And I call this. I call this again, testosterone stacking. So the way you do is you stack these six scientifically proven methods on each other. And the way you do that is I'll recite them and whoever's listening can just write them down and then try them out after the podcast. So you start off by a. You walk like you own the world. So you kind of like long strides, slow strides, chest out, chin up, arms out, you go boom, boom. You know, like, you just walk like you're on the world. We know that posture and movement has a direct effect on confidence. So you start by doing that. And then secondly, you add a breathing pattern, which is the kind of breathing pattern you would use if you go hunting. So it would be something like not. I don't want people to go into anger because that's quite easy. So if you're easy to anger, don't do this exercise. But otherwise you go into breathing pattern that sounds something like this, where you go like a warrior like sensation. And you start to build up while walking. When you've got that going for you, you put on some music, which is like the stuff, the music you usually drive your car too fast to. You know the feeling, don't you? Like when suddenly you're speeding, you're like, what on earth happened? That kind of music that makes you cocky. The stuff you listen to before you do, like that big rep, that big try when do bench pressing or whatever it is, that kind of music, you know, it boosts you. So you just use this in combination now. So this is the third thing that you stack upon this number four is you start uttering some kind of mantra, which is like, mine is personally is come get me, come get me, come get me. And then maybe now and then I tend to toss in a swear word there as well for my. My own victorious purposes. So that's your fourth one. Now, the fifth one is primal scream, which is a bit of a weird one. So preferably it should be silent around you or like you call it be by yourself or something like that. Anyhow, the primal scream is simply you going, you just do this primal scream loud. And then the sixth one in combination with this is that you do A. An anchoring gesture. So this is used in sports by elite athletes all over the world. You do an anchoring gesture. Mine is this where I pounce my chest. So I do the walking, I do the breathing. I go, go, come get me, come get me, come get me, come get me. And then I go, and then I scream out. I get instantaneous goosebumps over my entire body. And when I do this in workshops, I ask them to listen to my voice, look at my eyes before I do this exercise and after I've done it, and you will see testosterone. And they go like, yeah, that's so evident. And when women do it, the. When I ask them what it feels like, they're like, I feel freaking invincible, man. Yeah. And that's a power move. That takes you about two minutes.

When Whitney sees me next, she is going to be in for a surprise.

Well played, man. Well played. Don't tell me I did. I did. I. Don't tell me.

I listen. You would appreciate the credit. No, this is great, man. You know what's really cool about this? Because. And now I can get a bit vulnerable, too, because in the past year, I've been really focusing on mindset and trying to play around with different things to do in order to adjust my mindset.

Said.

And now I was like. I was too afraid to share. I'm like, people are going to think I'm weird, but I accidentally stumbled upon some of these things because I would think about some of the. Like, you see it so well in athletes when they are, like, in the zone, when they're at their peak. And I can just identify some of this behavior in athletes, like, walk like you own the. The world. That's the Conor McGregor swag, right?

Oh, yeah. True. Yeah.

The loose arms and right breathing pattern while walking. You see a lot of UFC fighters do it. When you see people like Novak Djokovic getting locked in, he has that de breath people would make fun of him. But now I'm recognizing this is psychologically sound. The music. So what I've recognized is that the. The music with the most bass is what I want to listen to before a keynote speech, is what I listen to when I'm in the gym lifting heavy. And now with this AI music, what I was doing, David, is I would take my, like, excerpts from my journal and think about the things that were making me afraid or insecure. And then I would put, like, the counters to that in music and play it loud. So it's customized music for myself. Talking about anytime. I think, oh, no, I'm not good enough. The music just counters every single insecurity with that music playing. And something I started to do with my sons is like, when they started to get down, focus on their posture. But I'm saying, okay, when I think about it, humans are primates. What do primates do when they're showing, like that alpha domination? They'll pound their chest. And so I recognize that, like, when I was alone, I started to enjoy doing, like, it felt really good. And then with my kids, I would have them do it. They would start to feel really good. This is incredible. I don't have a mantra. Need that, the primal scream. I need that, the anchoring gesture that's missing. But this is powerful because you can do this at almost any time.

Yeah, absolutely, yes. The primal scream is probably the only one that holds you back from doing it anywhere. But the cool thing, if you. And I'll tell you this, if you haven't tried these six stacked on each other and you do it, God, it's a mind blowing sensation. Like when you go into that negotiation or do that when I do, keynote speaker, you just walk differently. You're in a different world, man.

Hello, my friends. Before we get back to today's episode, I want to ask you a question. Have you ever wondered how to elevate your team's negotiation game and how you can help the folks on your team have better, difficult conversations? At the American Negotiation Institute, we offer transformative keynotes and workshops tailored to empower professionals with top tier negotiation and conflict resolution skills. Whether it's a keynote for your next event or hands on training for your team, we've got you covered. Don't just negotiate. Master the art with the American Negotiation Institute. Click the link in the description to find out more. Elevate, negotiate and succeed. Yes. It's funny that you talk about it with keynote speaking, because that's when I do it the most, because I have the hotel room to myself and sometimes I think about, oh, one of these days I'm going to take my family to these speeches. And I'm like, I don't know if that's the right vibe. They'll be like, who is this man? He is not the guy that we left in Ohio. This is so cool. But again, David, to your point, we're seeing that if we play around with the testosterone levels that we have, then it leads to more aggressive behavior. But then if we can temper that with probably the other parts of the emotional cocktail, like oxytocin, for example. Right. We can make It a bit more measured. So if we have the negotiation skills, but now we have a bit more of an aggressive, assertive mindset, we're going to drive more toward our goals. Am I getting that right?

Yes, yes. It's partly. It hasn't been proven to only be connected to testosterone. It can be connected to testosterone. It's rather kind of an amplifier of your social skills. So if you are, it's, it's quite strange actually. But you, if you are, if you know that by being funny is your optimal social skills, testosterone will amplify that ability. So if you're like, if your game is being funny on stage and you increase your testosterone levels, you'll be funnier. If being social is your, if is your social game, you, testosterone will amplify that. And I think people can relate to that where they, when they feel like when they feel testosterone elevated, they suddenly become very good at being social, not just being social, by being good at that particular thing in being social.

So would it be fair to say that it's almost like testosterone makes you a better version of yourself? Like amplifies yourself?

Yeah, yeah. From this perspective, absolutely. And the issue is though, however, it's also connected to risk taking. So you become more, you become bolder, which means that that can obviously lead to hybrids. And it's been shown that men are generally not as good as women when it comes to taking stocks and doing day trading because we take bigger risks than they do. We're better at bonds and they're better at stocks. In this particular study, yeah, because I.

Remember and maybe we were thinking about the same book I was reading, the Confidence Code by Katty K. And Claire Shipman and they referred to that study they were talk about during the recession, men who, who ran the firms lost more because of the risk taking. So it's important to balance that with some strategic thinking as you're, as you're getting hyped up before your, your negotiation. And when we think about some of these other neurochemicals that would be applicable to negotiation, what are some of the other ones that come to mind?

I definitely recommend oxytocin. Oxytocin is a neurosubstance that can be connected to empathy, presence and that you want to, that you're open to, to connecting with your group. And so it kind of makes you open as a human being to your group. So why is that important in this sense? Well, let's put it like this. If you look at, if you've got kids, you know, you got kids if you look at them when they were small, there will be like, if. Look at them when they were like, I don't know, how old are they now?

Got three and nine.

So you look at the nine year old, you look at what, he or she or both. Boys, Boys. Okay, so look at him when he was like three. Like, look at him and he's so. He's like, cute. He's like this beautiful little bundle. And you look at that and you can feel your oxytocin levels increase. Because there's just this love, there's connection in this. This is very important to do in a combination with testosterone because if you don't do this, you will walk in and people may perceive you as cocky, like too cocky. So what you want to do is you want to combine testosterone with oxytocin. So you do your testosterone exercise. Bum, bum, bum, bum. You build that up. You can feel that sensation in you. And I always do this before my keynotes. I do the testosterone exercise and I spend the last two minutes looking at photos of my daughter when she was like 3, 4, 5, 6, and my son actually as well. And I get all tears geared up. I do this for two minutes and I hear my name, David J.B. phillips coming up on stage. I hand my phone to technician and then I walk up on stage and I'm so freaking present, man. I am calm, I'm present, I'm caring. And I, I look at my audience and my, like, my sensation for oxytocin is transmitted to them. So now I am high on testosterone, high on oxytocin. That combination is the sexiest combination around, man.

Man, this is, this is powerful. Because you're right, you're right. The testosterone can make you appear cocky. And honestly, I think if you are like a larger, more physically imposing person, it would be easier to get tagged with that as well. So that's something to be mindful of. But I love the idea of blending that with oxytocin. That is an incredible psychological stack there. And one of the things that you said, I want to dig into this too, because it's a really interesting note. So you feel more connected to people within your group. So when we think about it through the lens of psychology and we have in group versus out group bias now, does it not at all extend to the out group or can you break down that, that element of it that.

Should be the reverse? Apparently what that means is that oxytocin seems to be the purpose from an evolutionary point of view is that oxytocin is supposed to bond you to your group and to keep your group safe. So oxytocin also increases your hate towards other groups. So there are theories that oxytocin is partly responsible for racism. So, yeah, by segregating. So in a company you can, as a manager, you can listen to how people speak because if they speak like this, they go, guys in sales, freaking idiots. Freaking idiots. We don't want to have anything to do with them. How can they be paid so much? IQ 85. So that is, that is. And that is, that's like production saying this. So what they're actually doing is that they, from an evolutionary point of view, they're bonding. That's why they're doing it. They don't feel strong enough, so they want to bond. But what they could have done instead is, which is the other option is to build oxytocin through peaceful ways in their production group, which is care for each other, listen to each other, help each other, see each other, be vulnerable, be personal, be generous. All of those things can also add to like what I then call the Harry Potter version of oxytocin, which is the good part. The, the other one was Voldemort. That's like the dark oxytocin kind of stuff. So, yeah, it's quite important for outgrouping group.

That's really fascinating because when I'm thinking about this, we want to build this cocktail with a little bit of precision too. So maybe the testosterone is good for the, like a more. I mean, it's just good in general. But then it's almost like the oxytocin could be the thing that gives the most, but also could take a lot as well. If it's a really hostile negotiation, perhaps oxytocin might not be that great at the beginning when you're working through those hostilities, when you still see them as the other.

Yeah, now that's true. That's a good point. That's a very good point. Yeah.

Now, now what about dopamine? Let's, let's, let's wrap with dopamine too, because dopamine might be the behind. Testosterone might be the one that is most recognizable to most people. So when we think about the, the effect. Well, actually, no, let's start about. Let's start with what dopamine is, because I recognize that a lot of times people don't fully understand what it is and that misunderstanding might color the rest of the conversation. So let's break.

Oh, absolutely. I just also want to add this, that in the book High on life. I go through different kinds of cocktails for different kinds of situations. So, like, why, when should you combine testosterone, oxytocin, when should you combine endorphins and dopamine? When should you combine? And so on and so forth. So I call these the angels and the devil's cocktails of our lives. To answer your question on dopamine, there's. It has multiple functions and effects on us. But looking from this perspective of negotiation and psychology, now specifically, it has two effects and the one is it is actually part of reward. So when we eat chocolate, we'll have a sudden increase of dopamine. If we eat food even, we'll have a sudden increase of dopamine. Spending time. Actually, this one is interesting. This one just came out quite recently. Spending time with other humans increases our dopamine levels. So, yeah, just rewards like that gives us dopamine. But that is not where dopamine is strongest. Dopamine is strongest on the anticipation of reward. So the process of looking forward to eating that bar of chocolate, walking down to the local superstore, every step you take, every thought you think about that chocolate, how you're going to just bite into it, how it's going to feel. If you're going going to bring it back home, have it. When you watch your telly, that entire process of the anticipation of reward is, can be seen as way more powerful than the reward itself. So that would probably be key in this case, where in a negotiation, your perseverance and your stubbornness to get your negotiation to land will most likely be correlated to the amount of dopamine that you feel for the end result. The more you feel that the end result is important to you. Like, for instance, if you're negotiating for the life of your family, your dopamine will be so high nothing will stop you. But if you're negotiating for a client you barely care about or been they've been mistreating you, whatever, your dopamine level will be so low that the amount of creativity and the amount of decisiveness, everything will be impacted by your level of perceived reward.

This is fascinating. And so, I mean, really, it sounds cheesy, but you truly need to care. You actually need to care about the person and the outcome. And the level of drive that we have is going to be correlated to the amount that we care about the person and the outcome.

Yes. Yeah. You truly want to get the best out of your mind, your brain. Because if you're high on dopamine, you will most likely be more creative you'll see things from various perspectives. You'll be more open minded. You'll see opportunities instead of problems like you will be. You'll be a different version of yourself. So many. Let's bring this down to keynotes, because that's what I do. I coach people and I do keynotes. So I've done. The keynote for this book is called the Angels and the Devil's Cocktail. And I've done that maybe 500 times now. So the 500th time I do that keynote, I'm going to do the same slides, I'm going to do the same stories, I'm going to do the same metaphors, I'm going to do the same thing. It's a bit adapted, of course, because clients are different, but it's going to be quite the same. So how do I avoid that being robotic? How can I go out on stage and truly give them my everything? Well, before I go up, I charge myself with dopamine before testosterone. So I do that by replaying my origin story. What I refer to in an origin story is why did I write the book? And I wrote the book because I was depressed. And I had been depressed for 17 years. I had wasted so much of my life in darkness. And I can't even go into how horrible that was. But even just, I just want. I don't want to get into it. It's just horrible. But those 17 years, a waste, so much of a waste. I hacked my depression when I learned about these neurosubstances, because that is what literally antidepressants attack are these neurosubstances. But I learned how to harness them myself, personally. And I just became obsessed with this subject, which led me to years after that, write a book. And years after that, delivering the keynote. So what I do before going up on stage is I replay my origin story. I go back to the darkness. I go back to the revelation of hacking my depression. And I can feel the shift from going dark to light. And it's so powerful that. And I tell myself, if I go up there on stage and I can influence one single person to feel anything remotely close to me, what I felt, oh, that's going to be my success. And I can feel this flow in my veins that every single slide is going to be delivered with passion, every single metaphor is going to be delivered with passion. And then I do the testosterone exercise, and then I do the oxytocin exercise, and then I walk out on that stage and I'm centered, I'm there and Nowhere else, I am confident and I'm caring.

That is powerful, David.

Powerful.

Thank you for sharing. Especially for me as a keynote speaker myself. You know, sometimes it can feel a little bit routine, but it's important to be able to tap into something that makes sure that you still care. And that was such a powerful note that I know I should end there, but I'm too damn curious. I have one more question before we wrap.

Go man, go.

I'm thinking about this because a lot of times there are people who are listening to the show who are afraid of difficult conversations, even sometimes expert negotiators. There's a particular person, a particular situation where you just don't feel confident, where you struggle to stand up for yourself and have the hard conversation. So for the people who are experiencing fear before an important conversation that they know they need to have, what would you say is the best neurochemical cocktail for that scenario?

Well, you can attack it from two perspectives. Three perspectives. Perspective number one is full force, which is the testosterone and the dopamine. So you just go in like, just forcefully, you're just a beast. Secondly, if that is not your cup of tea, you would go the soft way, which is oxytocin, which is you come in from a very caring point. So you're literally, you're, you're coming from a point of appreciation, of gratefulness for anything and everything that they may have done or might have done or could have done. And if not that, you're like, you justify their behavior by maybe just replaying a made up story that their family situation is bad, that they were brought up in a particular way, that they can't, that they're not responsible for themselves. You know, you go to the soft side of the human connection. You look at perspectives like, like we're on this planet hurling through space. Like just become, become small, become insignificant. But become caring and appreciative because everything in your demeanor then will de. Weaponize them. It'll remove their protection because you just come in with such a. You just come in with a heart, man. That breaks most people, as long as they're not psychopaths, you know, because then they can't sense that.

Right.

And then the third one, the third strategy would be endorphins. So endorphins is, comes from, it's, it's two words put together. It comes from indigenous morphine. So morphine is a painkiller and endorphin has similar effects. However, morphine is way more pop, way more potent. So if you increase your endorphin levels before a meeting like that, you are usually less affected by any kind of pain that they may affect inflict on you. So you're simply. It's like you create a protection around you. It's the same. Like there's a similar study that if you want to go the long game, I told you the long game on testosterone. But imagine you have this meeting on Friday. So this study showed that if you look at predominantly happy faces for an entire day, you will be less able to see sad faces at the end of the day, sad and angry faces. So imagine doing that for like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, you just, you just look at happy. Like whatever you do, your feed is just funny or great or happy or whatever. You don't look at the news at all because that's just sad faces, more or less. You just program yourself to not be able to even realize that the other person is pissed off. Yeah. Playing around with your substances and this is self leadership. Right. You know, it's like so many people, they take their emotions for granted. Like they wake up with them and then they just stay in them. And maybe they use music to kind of change them. They're so much more moldable than most people imagine.

This is incredible. I've got a full page of notes and one page is not sufficient because as I know there are multiple pages in your book High on Life. David, I really appreciate you coming in today and before you go, just remind the listeners about the book and how they can get in touch with you and work with you too.

Absolutely. So yeah, absolutely, you can reach me on Instagram, LinkedIn, both of those are probably the easiest. If you want to reach out with a DM or something like that, I usually respond within a day or two. Otherwise the book High on Life is out here and there in America on Amazon. So you know, you can pick that up. There's. There's no American audiobook, but I am half British so you'll have to stand out with my, my English. But there is an English audiobook if you want to pick that up on Audible or something like that as well. If you want to learn more about public speaking. What I do, I have a phenomenal global program which is called Presenter Mastery where I go live with my group every week. And yeah, you'll just learn how to become a master presenter and self leadership through that as well. So I invite people to give me a holler if they're interested in that and I'll give them the information they need.

Incredible. Thank you so much. For joining us. Really appreciate it.

Thank you, man. I've just got to say that when I came into the podcast, you just gave such a beautiful human sensation to me, Like a caring, kind sensation. I know this is something that you do often, and maybe sometimes you do it robotically, I don't know. But I just wanted you to know that it was truly. It felt warm, heartful, and caring. So you must have done oxytocin injecting before you came into the call, man.

Thanks, man. That means a lot. Especially nine years in over 1500 episodes deep. I still love it. I still love it because, again, like you, I realize, like, just one person can listen, one person, and it changes their whole life. So I was excited to have you on, man, because I see how powerful this is. So anything I could do to help spread the message, I'm. I'm down.

I'm impressed. I'm impressed.

Thank you, brother.

Appreciate you. Likewise.

Congratulations. You've just joined an elite club by listening to a full episode. You're now officially on the Negotiate Anything team. So welcome aboard. What most team members do is they subscribe to the podcast because that allows them to automatically get the latest episodes of the show. The best things in life lie on the other side of difficult conversations. Keep learning, keep practicing, and keep getting better. Your relationships will improve, your career will soar, and you'll have the confidence you need to get the most out of these crucial conversations. Again, thank you for joining the team. We're excited to have you, and I will see you in the next episode. I'll catch you later. If the other person is in cortisol, it's very difficult to negotiate with that person. So how can we prepare the right cocktail for the other person in a negotiation so that we can affect her or his mood?

Well, it depends on how early you can start affecting that mood. But. So let's put it like this then. You can affect a person's oxytocin levels by anything from the paintings that hang in the hallway to the room that they're going to. You can affect it by the scent that is in the air. You can affect it by the music that is being played. You can affect it by the color that is around them. You can affect it by the people meeting them when they open the door. The person sitting at the desk, if it's in a company, will affect their oxytocin levels. So this doesn't have to begin in the negotiation room, but adjusting the person's mindset can begin far, far, far before that. And Then in the actual room, obviously. My second TEDx talk is called the Magical Science of Storytelling. And that's where I teach people how to inject these neurosubstances in another person by telling stories. So if you tell this story, it increases dopamine. If you tell this story, it increases oxytocin. Now, sometimes we're not perhaps allowed to tell a full story, like, 30, 40 seconds, but metaphors are very powerful as well. Anchor words are very powerful as well. So the way you speak, the metaphors you use are very powerful when it comes to adjusting another person's mindset as well. Because what you want to do here is actually increase, preferably oxytocin, because that brings down cortisol. So that's one of those key things that you potentially, you want to. You want to decrease. And you have to remember as well that cortisol goes down slowly. So if you. If they're high on cortisol when you see them, you can get their cortisol levels to go down slow, slow, slow over a period of about 10, 15 minutes. But then you know that you're heading in the right direction. So wait 10, 15 minutes before you pick something up that is sensitive. Just give it that moment. We all have this, you know, like, there's an email that drops into our inbox, and we're like, what on earth?

Who wrote that?

Oh, I'm gonna give them. And you go like, you send it off, and 15 minutes later, you are not proud of your behavior because you allowed that high level of cortisol to make the decision for you. But if you waited 15 minutes, your decision would be not as reactive as that, and that would make a difference.

Wow, this. This is so good, David.

Yeah.

I don't know if anybody ever told you this, but you should write a book. Like, it's.

Good one, my man, good one. I'll do that. I'll come around to that one day.

Oh, man, this is great, man. Listen, I appreciate you staying late. I'll let you go and. Yeah, let me know if you're ever in the States or when you come next. I have a Euro trip coming up in the summer, but I'll be in Amsterdam and Italy, but if I make it to Sweet, I'll let you know for sure.