How to Create Life Changing Opportunities Through the Art of Negotiation with Michael McGovern

Hello, my friends, and welcome to another exciting episode of Negotiate Anything. This show is produced by the American Negotiation Institute and with over 5 million downloads and listeners in over 180 countries, listeners just like you have made this the number one negotiation podcast in the world. Hi, my name is Kwame Christian and I am the founder and CEO of the American Negotiation Institute. Here at AI, we believe that the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. And we are passionate about providing you with the best content that will help you to make your difficult conversations easier, both at work and at home. Lastly, I want to remind you that we offer consulting and conduct trainings both virtually and in person all around the world. Our focus is in three main areas. First, negotiation and conflict resolution. Second, leadership. And lastly, diversity, equity, and inclusion. Check the link in the description below to learn more about how we could work with you and your team. And now, without further ado, let's jump into the interview. Mike, thanks for joining us today.

Thanks for having me, brother. I'm excited to be here.

Yeah, man, it's my pleasure. So how would you get us started? By telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do.

Yeah. So Michael McGovern, local to Columbus, Ohio, here. I'm a real estate investor, entrepreneur. We've got a construction company, roofing company, mindset guy. Right. I love sales, I love real estate. A little bit of an all man. Just excited to be here.

Yeah, we're excited to have you and listeners. So one of the things that's really cool about Mike is that, yes, he's in real estate himself. He has that company. He also has the construction company and he's starting this business on that that trains people who are interested in getting into real estate. And so you're, you're like a triple threat here, multiple threat here, which is pretty cool. That's right. And can you tell the listeners about the, like, the passion that you have regarding the real estate and teaching? That too?

Yeah. You know, so for me, I kind of, I always relate real estate back to like the moment that my life changed. Right. Because it kind of helped me figure out self development, start diving into self development. You know, I never read a book Till I was 26 years old. And when I got into real estate, you know, these gurus, all these people out there start saying, you know, read this book, read that, rich dad, poor dad, right? All of these things. And so I started reading books and just really consuming the knowledge in real estate, which started to really push myself in the self development space because I started to see like these high level performers, these high level real estate guys were all very big into the mindset side of things. They were all just super high level people. So real estate kind of forced me into, into myself and just really kind of figuring out who I was. And that's what gets me so excited about the coaching space. Because I've watched people change their lives the way that I changed my life. And that's what I like to do is be able to show these people just that avenue that they could take to get themselves to the next level.

Yeah, I love it. And that flows perfectly into what we're going to talk about today, everyone. So the first thing we're going to talk about is the importance of training and improving your skills. The next one is the importance of the mindset that you have as you're developing these skills in order to be successful. And then the last one is how we can create unique opportunities through the art of conversation and negotiation. And Mike has a really, really cool story that he's going to share in that last one, so make sure you stay tuned here. But when you think about training, what comes to mind as it relates to sales negotiations and difficult conversations?

Yeah, you know, so like you and I were kind of talking on, you know, our, our default is always to go back to our highest level of training, right? So I think that's why it's so crucial no matter what you're in. And let's relay this way back to school and growing up, right? We are, our whole lives, we're, we were taught, we're coached forever, right. All through, you know, all through high school and elementary school and college. And then all of a sudden we get out in the real world and we think we've got it figured out and that we don't need training and we don't need help anymore. And you know, I think that's why mentors and coaches and, and continuing to have that continued education is so important because, you know, all those things we learned, you know, you don't, it doesn't really hit you till you get in the real world. And you know, so for me, that's why I'm so passionate about that, that, that space and just educating and, and learning because, you know, when you get into sales, when you get into these high level, high pressure conversations, you know, we always go back to our highest level of default and whatever that training might be, you know, did, have you studied, do you know how to build that rapport or you know, when it comes into neuroscience and things like that and just knowing how to respond and, you know, reflect and have those conversations with that person and get them to be at ease so that they can have these conversations that they actually feel comfortable having with you.

Yeah. And it's really hard to get somebody to feel comfortable if you yourself are not comfortable in the interaction. Right. And I think about it from a sports perspective. Like you mentioned, too. Professional athletes seem to take their training so much more seriously. So they're constantly training, and then there are few games in comparison to the amount of practices that they have. But in the professional world, we just go out there and play games. Like that's all we do, you know, and it's wild to me, for instance, with the negotiation and conflict resolution trainings that we do, where I go in and talk to negotiation teams, procurement team, sales teams, and some of them have never had a negotiation specific training before when all they do is negotiate every single day.

It's always just winging it.

Exactly. And so what do you think is the biggest block when it comes to people not investing in themselves with training?

Ego. I think ego is one of the biggest things. People don't want to feel weak. And as you get older, you're supposed to have this person, you're supposed to be this person that has it all figured out. And I can tell you that for me, my biggest leaps and bounds started to happen when I realized I didn't know nearly as much as I thought I knew. And I was willing to learn 100%.

And I think you'd appreciate this too, Mike, because you've seen this on both sides. My goal, it's going to sound weird. My goal is to feel weak and stupid every day. And so you see me in the gym. Right. I'm going really hard. I want to get to the point where I cannot do anymore. Yep. I don't feel very strong right now because I put in a lot of effort. That's how I get strong. Wow. I read this new book. I cannot believe I didn't know this before. This is brand new to me. Eureka. I've never experienced this before. I didn't know I could do this. Yeah. I don't feel smart while I'm reading this, but I feel smarter now that I'm done reading it.

Right.

And so you have to be willing to humble yourself in order to move forward.

Forward.

But you're not going to be able to move forward if you already think you. You're where you need to be.

Yeah. And I mean, what's that old saying? Like, you never want to be the smartest person in the room, right. Or you're in the wrong room if you are. And. And I've. And I've always. It's funny because as I grew up playing sports, you know, I was always playing with the older kids and was pushing myself, and that's why I was able to take hockey to such a high level, you know. And then when I got into business, you know, it's same thing. Like, I'm always trying to put myself around those people that I think are levels ahead of me, because even if I can just learn from osmosis, I know that I'm going to continue to get better.

Absolutely. And so this speaks to the skill set. But we know that even if you have all the skills in the world, you can't do anything if you don't have the right mindset. And so for you, as you've been growing in your career, what are some of the biggest takeaways you've had as it relates to mindset?

I mean, mindset to me is just constantly consuming positivity, just pounding that no matter what you're doing, right. I know there used to be days when I'd be driving to work. This was four or five years ago, right before I got into all of this. And, you know, every single day I'd be listening to the radio and just, you know, listening to music and things like that and just wasting so much time that I could actually be consuming knowledge, you know, and we don't even think about things like that. Like, we think to ourselves that we don't have enough time to do what. What you do or to do what I do because I'm busy working a job and I'm bus with the kids and. But we do. That's just an excuse that we don't have time. And so you have to create those times, right? Like you. I know that you listen to audibles on like a thousand speed, right? So it's like. So. But it's those things, right? So it's constantly putting these positive. Constantly forcing your brain to expand and your knowledge to expand. And I think that's what creates that mindset. Because you know you're going to get beat up no matter what you're doing, whether it's an entrepreneur, whether you're working for somebody, whatever it is, if you don't have that positive mindset, you're always going to fall short of really getting to where you want to be, because it all truly does come down to you. And mindset Is one thing that you can control.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And I see it all the time, the confidence issue that people have when it comes to performing. If you don't have confidence in the skills that you have, then you're not going to perform at a very high level. And so everybody has some kind of a gap as it relates to how they are performing. What is it? It's going to be different from different people. So some people are people pleasers. Okay. That is the mindset issue that's holding them in place. Some people might be too egocentric and selfish, and so they're only focused on their needs and not on other people's needs. And that's showing up in the conversation they can't get through. But again, we have to be humble enough to recognize that there is a gap and figure out what the gap is and then fill our minds with that positive and encouraging and helpful content so we can start to fill that gap and perform at a much higher level.

Right. And how do you have confidence? Practice.

Yeah.

Right. That's how you get confidence, man. If you want to be a public speaker, get up on a stage and start speaking. Right. If you want to be a better bodybuilder, go in and hit weights. Right. If you want to be a better salesperson, take sales training. And it shows through in everything that you do. How you walk, I talk, how you respond to things, how you respond to high level situations. All of that is always going to come back to what did you do to prepare yourself?

Does your company invest in professional development training? If you believe that your team would benefit from a negotiation workshop, all you need to do is go to our website, fill out the workshop request form, and then we'll set up a time to chat. These workshops are completely custom, customizable, and we've done them all around the country. Negotiation and conflict resolution skills are beneficial across all professions, but they're especially useful in procurement, purchasing, sales, sourcing, and contract management. Our calendar is filling up quickly and we even have some workshops scheduled for next year if you think you might want one. I'd suggest reaching out soon so you don't miss out. Check out the link in the description to learn more and we will be right back after this. Absolutely. And one of the things that's so interesting about this is the fact that there's really nothing new as it relates to the struggles that we are facing as humans. There's somebody else who has gone through the same thing and figured it out and created something to show you the way it's out there. You just have to find it. And I really like the fact that you're mindful of surrounding yourself with this positivity. You're recognizing that everything has an impact. I think about it kind of like, you are what you eat, you are what you consume. And just like we eat real food, we eat brain food, too. And so are we nourishing ourselves in our free time, or are we poisoning ourselves? Yeah, that, you know, that's. It's real.

And I think. And I think that it's such a. A hard balance to find, too. And I hate the word balance because I feel like you're never really balanced. Right. Balance doesn't really exist. But, you know, I. I'm sure you probably felt this too. You know, I could read, you know, read, read 20, 30 pages every day, list them. An audible book on the way to work. You know, podcasts, you know, talk to people like, you do all these things. And then I still get anxious when I'm sitting at home, like, trying to watch TV for a half hour, right? And I'm like, am I. I should be learning? I shouldn't be. You know what I mean? Like, someone's gonna pass me up. Like, it's so hard to find that, to just be able to, like, be, like, give yourself grace, too. To know that, hey, you're doing everything that you can, and you have to let time catch up, too, because we can't. There's nothing that we can do with time. And it just takes action. You know, daily actions, steps to get to where you want to go. And as long as you stay consistent with it, you're going to fall off, you're going to have good weeks, you're going to have bad weeks, but as long as you just get back up and just keep moving, you're going to get there eventually. Whether it's In a year, 10 years, it's not up to us to decide when that time happens. It's just being ready for every opportunity when it presents itself.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And for the listeners out there who came to this podcast in general or in particular for this episode, looking for. For, like, tactics, strategies and everything, we're going to talk about that in the next section. But I really want to spend time here hammering this part home, because I run into this in my trainings and some of the coaching that we used to do, people are kind of tactics hunters, right? I'm just going to sit here and I'm going to hunt different tactics. I'm going to say this. I'm going to approach it this way and those type of things. But yes, strategy is great, tactics are great, little one liners are cool every once in a while. But again, if your mindset isn't in the right place, it's not going to work. Because let's say you're confident enough to deliver the message in the way that you want to as it relates to the words, like just the words, right? If your mindset isn't in the right place, people can sense that something is off, right? You have to really embody what it is that it is that you're trying to promote or you're trying to be in that situation. So if you really want to care about, if you want to show somebody that you care about what it is that they're going through, you actually have to care about what it is that they're going through, right? You have to carry the right mindset in order for the message to be delivered in the right way.

100%. And I think it all really boils down to, you know this, I know this, we're all out here selling the same thing, right? I don't know if you're a fan of Ed Mylett, but I listened to a speech Ed Mylett had and he said, I don't care if you're Alex Rodriguez or you're a guy buying a car at a car lot. You know, we're all, we all want happiness, right? And he's like, no matter what you're selling, sell happiness. If you're selling cheeseburgers, if you're selling trainings, like, we have to understand that our job as salespeople or negotiators is to help somebody get from where they're at to where they want to be. And we want to make that as a seamless of the transaction as we can for them and just show them that that grass is greener on that other side. But that takes you being intentional and disciplined to listen to where they're at, right? And being able to, to meet them where they're at and relate and help them, walk them to where they want to be. And for me, like, I always think about that no matter what I'm doing, I'm like, how, what can I listen to this customer, to this consumer? Where are they at? Where do they want to be? And how can my product or what I'm offering help get them to that pace?

Yeah, absolutely. And so numerous studies show how important emotions are as it relates to decision making. And right now, what you're showing here is people want to get to happy happiness. They want to get there. That's the destination. And they're using whatever it is that we're talking about as just a conduit to happiness. And what I've seen sometimes is that people are hesitant as it relates to leaning into the emotionality of that reality. Right. They can get too transactional. So in real estate, hey, this is the market price. You want a house, buy the house. Right? Right. When you're. When you're coaching up some of the young folks in real estate, how can you. How do you get them to adopt the mindset of. Think about this as an opportunity to connect this business transaction to their emotional goal of happiness?

Yeah. And that's huge too, because we get so transactional in this business and especially what we're doing. You know, I have guys, cold callers that are. They're calling 100 people a day on a power dialer. You know, they might get to talk to somebody for two for. For 30 seconds. And it's a quick, like, stop calling me. You know, hang up. Hang up on them. Right? And. And that's what I tell these guys. I'm like, hey, if you can just get somebody on the phone, just get them on the phone and listen. Don't, like, drop a script. Scripts are great. Scripts are there to help. You have a guideline of just to remember the things that. The important questions that you need to ask along the way. But if you go to follow a script verbatim, you're not listening to the person. Right. Because that conversation could take a turn 10 seconds into it and has nothing to do with that script. But they're gonna come in here, they're gonna start telling you, my husband and I just got divorced, and, you know, I'm left with the house and I have to get rid of it, and the bills are piling up and there's all these things. But unless we're willing to peel back those layers and really figure out, like, what. What their struggle is, then. Then it's always going to stay on that transactional side. So that's what I tell these people is, is have those conversations and just be willing to be present in the conversation. And don't worry about. I rarely ever try to buy a house or buy a property on the first phone call. Right. It usually takes five, six, seven times talking to this person, building that relationship, building that connection for them to trust you and know that, hey, like, this person actually can take care of me. But it takes that time to listen to them and figure out where is their pain right now? What's their motivation? What's their pain? Where do they need to be? And then how can we serve that? And sometimes, man, it's not even. Sometimes I can't serve it, sometimes it's not for me. And that's when I have to refer them to somebody else. Right. It's like, don't try to do things that you can't do neither or make false promises to these people. And I think that's huge in sales. Right. We promise the world sometimes and a lot of times we can't deliver. And then that just brings. That devalues your product.

Yeah, 100%. And I think this is a great time to transition to that third point, which is the story. This was a fantastic story. It was so good, in fact, that I. I almost forgot how much my arms were hurting trying to keep up with you in the gym. So tell the listeners about the story in real estate.

Yeah, so we had purchased a house in an area and we started working on the property and the house next door was vacant the whole time. I'm like, I need to get a hold of this guy. I'd love to have two properties right next to each other. That's easy management, right? So you finish up one job, we go to the next. And like I said with us, we're calling all these homeowners, these off market properties every day, we're calling these people. So I got this guy's number and gave it to my acquisitions guy and he reached out to him and he was rude, I'll say the least. Right. He was not happy to hear from us. He was like, you know what, we've got this deal taken care of. We're going to sell it. Don't ever call me again. This and that, call me. Everything under the sun and basically hangs up on us. So I'm like, all right, well, that's frustrating. That could have been a really good deal. But, you know, it is what it is. You kind of lick your wounds and you just pick the phones back up and you keep going. And I had actually been traveling. This is kind of where things, you know, I do believe that some things happen for you. You know, they happen for you, not to you. Right. And I had just gotten back from a vacation and we were getting this project wrapped up and I ended up having to go over and do a few things, some demolition stuff that I don't care to do it, but I got stuck doing that. I went in there and I pull up to the house and they're there, the neighbors, the next door neighbors are there. So I go over and start talking to them and hey, I got the house next door. What's kind of going on with this house? And I never try to jump directly into the transaction, right? I'm never going to be like, hey, sell me this house. You know, I'm just looking around, I walk in and I try to stay, you know, aware of all the things that's going on. And as I'm, as I'm looking around at the house, they're on their hands and knees like scrubbing carpet that looks like it should have been ripped out and replaced two years ago, right? So I'm like, okay, I'm sorry. All these, all these indicators are going off in my head like they want to sell this house. And so I start talking to him again. Well, you know, what's the plans here? Like, oh, we're going to run it out and you know, we're going to get some tenants moved in, get the people moved in here. And we're not looking, we're not really interested in selling. I'm like, okay, yeah, yeah. And I was like, well, do you mind if I kind of just like peek around and take a look at it? And you know, as I'm looking around and just noticing all the things that need worked on, right? And I think in sales, kind of relating this to that is so often we're having a sales transaction, we're scared sometimes actually pull out the pain, right? We want to stay, we want to keep the, we want to keep a friendship. And sometimes like, sales isn't about always building that great replace. Sometimes you can be too friendly and you lose a deal, right? Like you, you become, you build a relationship. All of a sudden, well, now they look at you as like a friend and they, you, you lose the transaction piece of it. So for me, like, I only try to walk that fine line. I'm not like over building rapport, but staying in a line where like, okay, they trust me, they want to work with me, but I'm not the place. They're so comfortable with me that now they feel like they, they can't do a transaction with me anymore. And you know, so I'm walking around telling the guy, you know, this looks like this needs done, that needs done. You know, we're talking like, yeah, yeah, well, you know, I'm gonna get to it, I'm gonna get through it. So where are you guys from? They end up being about an hour and a half, two hours away. And I'M like, oh, man. I'm like, well, I'm, you know, I'm in. I'm in Dublin, you know, and it takes me a half hour to get here. I couldn't imagine being two hours away. That must be. That must be hard, you know, being a landlord from. From two hours away when something happens, he's like, yeah, yeah, you know, it's really tough, man, but, you know, we do it. And I'm like, oh, it's like, that's something you're gonna, you're gonna do for a long time. You're gonna continue to do that or you have more projects down there. Like, you even have contractors up here. Like, you guys are in here two hours to come scrub the carpets. That's just, you know, that, that's, that's. That's quite a hike for that. He's like, yeah, well, we're just going to get it ready for the wintertime. And I'm like, okay, gotcha. Makes sense. Makes sense. So, you know, and I, as. I'm kind of peeling these layers back. I just want to keep that conversation going. And so our house is getting rehabbed next to it, and everybody that is in real estate lives to see a house that is being rehabbed, right? They. They feel like they're a part of it. They know, they. They know things about that process. So, I mean, hey, man, you want to go next door and. And check out what we have going on? He's like, yeah, yeah, that would be awesome. As he, him and the wife come over there walking next door with me, and, you know, I'm walking around the property telling her that we did this and we did this and just really, really diving in on how we are rebuilding this property, right? And like, giving it new life again. Because a lot of these people, when they own properties, they have. It's funny, but we build this connection to properties and these stories that we have the properties. So a lot of times that's one of the reasons people are so hesitant to sell something because they might have grown up in the house, right? It might have been their parents house and they passed away. So you really have to help them kind of let go. And, you know, so I got him next door. We're talking. And you know, as I was like, oh, yeah, man, we put all this money into it. We got to do the floors and the kitchen. I was like, well, kind of like your house, right? We got to do some of the stuff you did next door here. And he's like, yeah, yeah, man. So as we're wrapping up the conversation. Well, I'll let you guys go. And, you know, before you go, man, so you don't. You have no interest in selling that house, huh? And. And he's like, well, honestly, man, I'll be honest with you, Mike. I don't. I don't really want to put anybody else into it, man. It's my dad's house, and, you know, we're doing all this work. We are driving two hours. Like, everything that I was kind of throwing at him, all of a sudden just. It was a waterfall, and. And I was like, all right, so, you know what? Great, man. Like, what would you take for it? You know, for me? You know, we're trying to buy about a house a month, and I haven't closed on anything. Anything set to close in November yet. I would love for your property to be that. That house, you know, do you have a number in mind? And, you know, it was 120, and I think, all right, well, that sounds good. 120 is not going to work for me, so we're going to have to, you know, let's. Could you do 100? And I knew my number was 110 the whole time, right? It's always about meeting them in the middle, right? Taking their expectation, taking your expectation and. And finding that medium ground. And, you know, I was like, how about 100? Nah, I can't do 100. And. All right, well, you know, just reach out to me. No pressure. Just get back to me. Let me know what you think. And a couple days later, you know, I texted him and I said, hey, brother, just wanted to follow up, you know, have you heard anything? And they go, I'm gonna talk to my dad. So this is kind of where I kind of messed up, because I did. I thought he was the decision maker, right? And a lot of times when we. When we get into sales, we're. We don't. We lose sight of that. We kind of get stuck in the. In the sales transaction itself, and we're not focused on who that decision maker is, because it was never his decision to make in the first place. So me building all this rapport with him, it wasn't even his deal. But, yeah, what I did, leveraging on that happiness side, you know, I let him know. I said, hey, man, listen, you know, let me know if there's anything that I can do. I know you guys are good, good ways away, you know, even if I don't buy this house from you, even though I'll buy this house from you, you know, I've got contractors we're working next door. If you needed to get your grass cut, if you need someone to go in here and do some of this remodeling for you, I'd be more than happy to help you out, man. And, you know, and if you do want to sell it, dude, I would. I'll make it an easiest process as I can for you, man. Right. I'm leveraging that happiness. I'll make it as easy to process as I can for you. I've already seen enough. I don't even have to get back in the house again. Like, you guys don't even have to come back up to this way ever again. You can, you know, you get the money wired to you. You got a lockbox on there, and. And we're good to go. We close on it, man. And never heard back from him. About two weeks later, he reaches out and he says, hey, Mike. Yeah, I think we can do 115. And I said, all right. I said, well, man, 115 is still not going to work for me. I got to be at 110. You make it happen. And I got a call from his dad about an hour later and agreed to the 110.

I love this story for so many reasons. I love this story, you know? I mean, first of all, persistence, because most people would have said. They said, no, I'm done. Right? And persistence is persuasive. So you were willing to stick with it and keep on pushing forward. That was good. Then when you saw that opportunity, you had the skills ready. Sometimes the negotiation chooses you. You don't choose the negotiation, Right. It kind of snuck up on you. And you were ready because you had the skill set. You had the training. You were prepared, even though you didn't see this coming. And so instead of jumping to the transactional side, you focused on building rapport. What is it that they care about? What are their hopes and dreams? Those type of things. And then at the very end, it was probably less than 1% of the con conversation that was attributed to any transactional discussion.

Yes.

And you were patient at that time. You were still persistent, but you were patient. Hey, what would work for you? This is their offer. Then you made a counter, and then you let it sit. You let it marinate. Because a lot of times, people are willing to make the adjustments that you want them to make, but they need to make it on their own timeline. And if you push too hard, too soon, then they run away. It's like trying to fish aggressively. That's not how it works, right? And then you were able to. To recognize that, hey, strategic error. I thought I was talking to the decision maker. This wasn't it. But you recognize, hey, that was a mistake. But it's okay. I'm still in the game. I can make the adjustment, and I'm going to log that for next time because every single conversation is a practice opportunity. And so you're learning in the process of effectively negotiating. So, Mike, man, this was. This is a great, great example.

I appreciate that, man. Yeah. Honestly, it's one of my. It's probably one of my more favorite stories that I've actually gone through in the sales side just because of how it happened, right? It was like I kind of snipped it out. I found the house, I did all the research, got the guy's number. I tried to help my acquisitions out so that he could have that conversation with them, you know, and he was just deflated, right? And that's where practice and resiliency comes in. You know, he. I try to tell him, like, me, don't, don't be. Don't get so down, man. Like, follow back up with him in a week. He never called him again, right? So he's sour when I'm like, hey, do you listen to the house that we got in contract, is the one that you told me we could never buy? You know, they're never going to sell it to us.

And again, this is a great way to circle back to mindset, right? Because we've covered so many different mindsets. Just being positive in general, having a learner's focused mindset, being willing to care enough about other people to find their happiness, right? And then being resilient and keep coming back, right?

And. And genuine, right? Like, for me, when. When I. When I tell a guy, hey, man, like, well, I'll have my gods cut your grass. Or if you need us to do work on the project, like, I legitimately would do that, right? Like, there was people that I try to buy properties from and things like that. Like, I try to always bring value. If I can't buy your house, I got a construction company. We can't do work on it. I got a roofing company, right? If you want to sell it. As an agent, I got resources to agents. Like, for me, it's just like, how many tools can I use to try to bring value to somebody? And eventually something's going to stick, whether it's me taking that opportunity or me helping them just with a solution, right? Me helping them solve Whatever problem that is, it might not be in my wheelhouse, but I have resources and relationships that I know one of us can help them.

100%, man. I think this is a great story to end on. And, Mike, before you go, make sure that you let the listeners know where they can find you, connect with with you, and work with you, too.

Yeah. So Instagram is hereckless. CEO, Facebook, Michael McGovern. And then if anyone wants to, you know, reach out, have conversation with me through Instagram, touch base on there. And I'd love to help anybody out the way that I can.

Love it. Thanks, brother. Really appreciate it.

Hey, man, I appreciate you having me on, man. Thank you so much.

My pleasure. Congratulations. You've just joined an elite club by listening to a full episode. You're now official, officially on the Negotiate Anything team. So welcome aboard. What most team members do is they subscribe to the podcast because that allows them to automatically get the latest episodes of the show. The best things in life lie on the other side of difficult conversations. Keep learning, keep practicing, and keep getting better. Your relationships will improve, your career will soar, and you'll have the confidence you need to get the most out of these crucial conflicts. Conversations. Again, thank you for joining the team. We're excited to have you, and I will see you in the next episode. I'll catch you later.