How to Improve Your Relationships in Your Difficult Conversations with Dre Baldwin

Hello, my friend, and welcome to another exciting episode of Negotiate Anything. Thanks for joining us today. With over 10 million downloads and listeners from more than 180 different countries, it's dedicated listeners just like you who have made Negotiate Anything the number one negotiation podcast in the world. I'm your host, Kwame Christian. I'm a business lawyer, mediator, author, and the proud CEO of of the American Negotiation Institute. Now, before we get into today's insightful conversation, I have a golden opportunity for those of you who recognize the power of negotiation in your professional lives. Have you ever found yourself wishing that you could navigate those high stakes conversations with more confidence? Or perhaps you're looking to empower your team with the art of persuasion and conflict resolution? At the American Negotiation Institute, we've crafted specialized keynotes and workshops tailored for those very needs. We've transformed the negotiation skills of professionals worldwide, and we're eager to do the same for you. We believe the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. And our goal is to help you improve your lives and the lives of those around you, one difficult conversation at a time. Don't let another challenging conversation leave you second guessing. Click the link in the description to discover how we can help you find confidence in conflict, negotiate better deals, and have stronger relationships. Because in the world of business, every conversation counts. And now, without further ado, let's jump into the interview. Dre, thanks for coming back on the show, my friend.

Thank you for having me back on, Kwame. I'm excited to be here.

My pleasure. So, for the folks who didn't listen to your first episode, how about you get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do? Sure.

Dre Baldwin, former nine year professional athlete, author of now 29 books. And I created this whole brand and philosophy called Work on youn Game. It's all about taking the mental tools to help you get to the top 1% in the sports world and translating those tools over to the business world in everyday life. So basically, just taking the things that you need to succeed in sports, like discipline, confidence, mental toughness, personal initiative, and then showing business people, professionals, entrepreneurs, and of course athletes how you can leverage those tools off the court, at work and in everyday life and to this day. And I stopped playing ball in 2015, most of the people I work with, most of my audience and clients are not athletes. So this stuff translates over directly. So that's what I've been doing for the last, really the last 10 years, but last six years full time, that's fantastic.

And based on your time as a professional athlete for nine years and now here, working predominantly with the business world, what do you think it is about your message and your approach that resonates so strongly?

The thing that people like the most, I think one thing that of course intrigues them is that this guy's a former athlete, you know, so being an athlete that's unique is different. Not too many people get to become professional athletes, but that is only that amount of attention you get for that is only going to last a little bit of time if you don't have any substance to go behind it. So once people hear me, they'll start explaining to work on your game philosophy. And oh, this guy has written books and, you know, he's done TED talks and things like that. They're like, okay, he's a former athlete, but at the same time there's some substance there. And I. They understand that. I know how to translate what you learn in sports and how it can actually work directly in the business world. And once people see that I'm in the business world, then that's when I know really can get people's attention, especially the non athletes. So that's really what translates over. Once I'm able to codify and explain it is just being able to communicate what we do on the field or on the court and showing somebody who's never been on the field or on the court how you can use it as well and how it works specifically for you.

Absolutely. No, that's really cool. And I know, man, 29 books. I have written one and I'm in the process of writing another. And man, it is hard and not fun. So kudos to you, man, for sticking it through. But it goes back to what you talked about with discipline, right? And so I know you're. You have another one that just dropped. So can you tell the listeners about that one?

Yeah. My newest one is called the Third Day. The decision that separates the pros from the amateurs. I actually got the hardcover right here, and this book is all about what you do in those moments when the newness has worn off. So it's just like someone starts a new job, all right, the first, or you start a new relationship or you're playing a new sport or you just got back into the gym because the gym was closed because of pandemic. Now you're back in the gym that first day, you feel great, right? Is a new thing. It's exciting, it's novel, it's. It's unique. The second Day is still pretty new. It's kind of like the new car smell is still there on the second day, but then by the third day, you realize, like, man, this is going to be some actual work. This is an actual job. This is not all fun and games. I'm going to have to really get my hands dirty here. And really, it's not as fun as it looked like from the outside when I was looking through the window. This is some real work that has to be done here. So the third day is not just the moment when something happens, but it's the decision that you make in the moment when you realize that there's some real work that needs to be done. What true professionals do is they show up and they do that work, whereas amateurs, they may not show up all the way, or they might not show up at all when they realize there's some real work that needs to be done there. So that's what the third day is about, is having that mental toughness and that discipline to keep showing up and delivering, even when you don't feel like showing up and you don't feel like delivering, doing it anyway. That's what makes a pro a pro.

I love it. And when it comes down to it, all of us are. We're professional negotiators to a certain extent. And on this show, we talk about negotiation being defined as any conversation you're having where somebody in the conversation wants something. So whether it's at home or at work, with relationships in the business, professional life, whatever it happens to be, we're all negotiating to a certain extent, and we're professionals at it. But a lot of times we act like amateurs when the time when it matters the most. And so earlier when we were kind of game planning this, we were talking about how this whole third day philosophy translates to our relationships. Because at the beginning of relationships, whether it's a business relationship or a personal relationship, it's all puppy dogs and rainbows. And then at some point, things get a little bit tough. So let's. Let's dig into how this same philosophy applies to our relationships day to day.

Sure. I mean, first of all, this is when a relationship becomes real. I mean, you remember the TV show the Real World on mtv, what they say, this is what happens when people stop being polite and start being real. And a relationship becomes real when you hit that third day. Because at the beginning of any relationship, even two people who just met, you're meeting people's representative, like they're being friendly, everybody's being nice. Eventually it gets to the point where people stop being nice, and you really get to see that representative goes away. You get to see the real version of that person. And this is when you get a real relationship is not a real relationship to. There's been some challenges. Like in professional sports, they say a series doesn't start till a team loses a game at home. Right. There has to be some type of controversy has to occur for you to know you're in a real relationship. Because once you go through that challenge, then you're going to find out, is this person going to stick around? Are both people going to stick around, or is somebody going to find the nearest exit because they can't deal with that controversy, that challenge? So that's the number one thing when it comes to relationships, is that that has to happen in order for that relationship to really get solidified. And the other thing is, in any type of relationship, because there is conflict, that's actually something that can make the relationship stronger, because when two people go through that conflict and they go through that disagreement, it's in that conflict resolution that they can both find out a little bit more about each other. Again, people aren't trying to be polite and be nice anymore, and people are being real with each other, and that's when you find out what somebody's really about, what they're really made of. You get to that third day. You get to that third day. I mean, there's a third day, even when you're dealing with people, Kwame, is that at some point you're going to get past that again, that nice version of that individual, and you're going to find out, what are they really saying? What are they really about? What are they really bringing to the table here? And can I deal with that? That's when you're going to know. So those are just two things off the top when it comes to relationships. And the third, death.

Yeah, I like it a lot. And I really liked what you talked about at the beginning when you were saying, this is when relationships become real. And what we always say here is, conflict is an opportunity. Your conflict is an opportunity. And when you start looking at things that way, that's when you realize, hey, this challenge that I'm going through right now, whatever it happens to be, I can make it through. And this is part of the process. Not only is it part of the process, but it's a necessary part of the process. And if we're able to resolve the conflict effectively, the relationship actually becomes stronger through that process. Now, of course, it's nice and easy to say in theory. I'm sure people listening are nodding their heads like, yeah, that's right. But it doesn't change the fact that it's difficult in practice. And so, especially when you're thinking about the third day in third day mentality in relationships, what is it emotionally and psychologically that makes that specific point of pressure so challenging for people to understand and deal with?

What makes it difficult is that. Well, some. Some people, many people, as a matter of fact, are very resistant to conflict. A lot of people just don't like conflict. And any type of conflict, even a conflict of somebody asking you for something that you happen to tell them, no, some people just don't like that. So they will do anything to avoid it. So they'll avoid any situation that could bring that third day up, where, if that means being a people pleaser, if that means avoiding conversations and avoiding specific situations, it's some people's aversion to any form of conflict. And again, the conflict could just be internal. It doesn't even have to be what the other person is going to say or do. It could just be how you feel yourself and knowing that you're going to have to tell somebody something that maybe it disappoints you to say it, or you think you might disappoint them in saying it. And people start dancing around what they actually want to say at that point, to the point that they water down their message so much that people don't even get the message. And I've had these situations where I've seen people doing this, and it annoys me because I'm a very direct type of person. I'm a person who will just tell you straight up. I'm not going to be. Try to be maliciously nasty about it, but I'm the type of person who tells somebody directly how I feel and what's going on. So when I see someone else not doing it, it will annoy me to the point that I'll say to them, like, yeah, why don't you just say what you really want to say? Like, you're watering down the message so much that they're not even getting what they actually need to hear. They're not even getting it because you're putting so much extra stuff around it that we don't even see it. We can't even hear it. So I think the number one thing, Kwame, is people's aversion to any form of what they perceive as to be conflict. And the other person might not even take it that way. But you're so afraid to say it that you never even say something in the first place.

Yeah, and I can think about so many times in my personal life and people who listen to the podcast and reach out and say, you know, hey, I've been trying to have this conversation for a long time. Or I've been a conflict averse my whole time, my whole life and now, hey, I'm having these conversations and it is not as bad as I thought it was. And the thing is, it takes a lot of confidence. It takes a lot of grit, determination, resilience sometimes to stand in the face of that difficulty and say what needs to be said. And so going to what you talk about all the time is mindset confidence. How do you start to build that resilient mindset and have that confidence in yourself to say what needs to be said when you hit that third day? Hello my friends. Before we get back to today's episode, I want to ask you a question. Have you ever wondered how to elevate your team's negotiation game and how you can help the folks on your team have better negotiations, difficult conversations? At the American Negotiation Institute, we offer transformative keynotes and workshops tailored to empower professionals with top tier negotiation and conflict resolution skills. Whether it's a keynote for your next event or hands on training for your team, we've got you covered. Don't just negotiate. Master the art with the American Negotiation Institute. Click the link in the description to find out more. Elevate, negotiate and succeed.

The biggest thing is just for people to understand that sometimes in life it only takes 10 seconds or 30 seconds of courage to make a huge change in your life. And sometimes a huge change in your life is something as simple as telling someone something that you know might annoy them or may upset them, but saying it anyway and getting it over with and then realizing that the world didn't explode. No, the message didn't self destruct when you said it. Even though you were feeling so much trepidation about it. Once you get through it, you realize, oh, this wasn't so bad. Now you're more confident in doing it the next time. You're more confident in saying what you want to say the next time. And it's kind of like you just got that, you got that monkey off your back, so to speak, to go and say what you really want to say and just speaking your mind and being open with people and people will appreciate that so much that you realize, like, man, I should have been Doing this five years ago, I should have did this last time. I shouldn't have held back so much with the last person that I was talking to. So I think that's one of the main things. I actually forgot what the question was there. What was the question?

But your answer was fantastic.

Okay. I get into it so much, I forget the question.

Don't worry about the question, man. The answer was great. And I think I really want to home in on one of the things that you said. So brilliant. Sometimes it just takes 30 seconds of courage. Powerful. Go. Go deeper into that point because it's. It's so simple, but so powerful, right?

So, you know, since I work with people on mindset and a lot of people come to me for anything, there's no personal professional development, people like, well, I want to make these changes. I want to do these things in my life. And the thing is that people need to understand, Kwame, is that change is not a six month project. All right? Change is not something that happens necessarily over five years of study. Change is something that happens instantaneously. The change is something that happens in the way that we see ourselves and the way that we see the things that we are doing now. Of course, there's a process of developing a skill and developing an ability and building a business. But the real change that happens in us, usually happens, can happen at the snap of a finger, is just in a moment when we give ourselves permission to no longer conform to who we've always been in the past. When we give ourselves permission to say something that we never gave ourselves permission to say before, or we were never given permission to say before, or do something that we never gave ourselves permission to do before. In that moment that we do that and we realize that it's not as terrible as we thought it would be. Then all of a sudden, all of these possibilities open up for us in our lives. And that's where the change happens right there. And then the things that we do subsequently, of course, those create even more change, the change that people can see. But the real change is what happens in between our ears. The things that happens in our mind that lets us know, okay, this thing that I thought I could never do, now I know I can do it. That's the change. But then the tangible stuff, the stuff that we can see, the business change, the relationship change, the mental change, the body changes, all those things take a little bit of time to grow. But the first change has to happen in the mind before any of those things happen. It happens internally, before it happens externally 100%.

It's a brilliant point. And I think that's really helpful, especially for people who are impatient, which is probably 98% of the group. And then the other 2% are lying about the fact that they're impatient. Right. We all want the change to happen immediately. And what's so encouraging about your. Your approach to this is that the change can happen immediately because you change your mindset. That's the first change that has to happen, and that happens quickly. And going back to what you said, about 30 seconds of courage, I think people misunderstand what it means to be courageous, to be confident and things like that, because you don't need to feel that way all the time. You don't need to feel that way all the time. You just need to suck it up for just long enough to do the right thing. And then you can go back to being scared. But as you start doing that more and more frequently, then it's going to be easier to do it. It's like a muscle. And I tell people all the time with the big, scary things that I've done. When we think about children, let's start there. So children, we have getting married, we have doing the TED talk, we have writing the book and starting a company, like these types of things, all of those decisions were scary. People look at me and they say, oh, Kwame, you're so confident. They might even go as far as to say, you are fearless. And that's like life's greatest joke. Because the people who are out there doing really big, impressive things, at least in my experience and with a lot of the people I've talked to, they feel the fear and do it anyway. And it just takes that 30 seconds of courage to commit in the moment and then continue to make the right decisions going forward.

Exactly. And I heard somebody once say, kwame, fear is not an indication of what to not do, is an indication of what you should do. Because when you're feeling that fear, that's when you're brushing up against what we know as the comfort zone. And everyone understands and agrees that in order to grow in life, you have to step outside of your comfort zone. When you're getting to the edge of it, that's when you start to feel fear. That's your body's signal letting you know, hey, you're about to move past the perimeter of the electric fence. You know, like that with the dog cower. You. You're about to get to the edge of the electric fence. You're about to get a Little shock here. And for many people, when they start to feel that buzz and that collar, they go backwards. They go back to where they were before, staying in their comfort zone. But the people who have that, what we look at as confidence and fearlessness is just that they feel it and they go do it anyway, like you said. And sometimes it only takes 30 seconds of going past that perimeter, and then the collar doesn't even work anymore because you're out of range. So hopefully extending that metaphor that people understand what I'm saying, there is just that 30 seconds to push past that trepidation that you feel. And the thing about fear is that it's not a tangible thing. Fear is not something that can reach out and touch you. It's just a feeling that we have on the inside. And all it is is your alarm system of when you're stepping outside of your comfort zone. That's all it is. You're stepping out of your comfort zone. The alarm goes off. Do you listen to the alarm or do you ignore the alarm? And sometimes you just need 30 seconds of ignoring the alarm, and the alarm stops working because it realizes that ringing buzzing in your head is not going to stop you from doing what you want to do. So your mom says, well, forget it. They're not going to listen anyway. Just let them go. And now your life has changed, because now your comfort zone has expanded.

I love it. And those are two great metaphors for us to end on today. Dre, I really appreciate it. And before you go, let the listeners know again about the book and how they could work with you.

Sure. So my newest book here is called the Third the Decision that Separates the Pros from the Amateurs. This book is all about any situation in your life. When a newness is worn off, the novelty is gone, and. And you realize that this thing that you signed up for is some actual work. It is not all fun and games. It's not one big party. And you have to decide, am I going to show up and do my best work and keep showing up and learning and dealing with the discomfort of this process, or am I going to quit? Am I going to just give half effort, or am I going to keep showing up all the way? That is what this book is about. I will give any of your listeners a free copy of the paperback version of this book. I'll mail it to you. All you have to do is help us out by covering the shipping. I've already paid for the book. You can get that at thirddaybook. Com. And how people can work with me or find me. I'm on all the social medias and I did. I did make a page. I don't know if we completed it yet, but it will be up by the time this comes out that if people go to work on your game university.comkwame your name I will offer anyone a free 30 minute Zoom call where we can talk about where you're at strategically, personally, professionally and help you out with anything I can to help you get to where you want to go to. So that'll be at work on your game university.comkwame and of course I'll give you the link and all that in case people can't remember it.

Fantastic. Dre. Thanks again. Really appreciate it. Congratulations. You've just joined an elite club by listening to a full episode. You're now officially on the Negotiate Anything team, so welcome aboard. What most team members do is they subscribe to the podcast because that allows them to automatically get the latest episodes of the show. The best things in life lie on the other side of difficult conversations. Keep learning, keep practicing, and keep getting better. Your relationships will improve, your career will soar, and you'll have the confidence you need to get the most out of these crucial conversations. Again, thank you for joining the team. We're excited to have you and I will see you in the next episode. I'll catch you later.