How to Negotiate for the Good of Your Community With Chris Baker CFRE

Hello, my friend, and welcome to another exciting episode of Negotiate Anything. Thanks for joining us today. With over 10 million downloads and listeners from more than 180 different countries, it's dedicated listeners just like you who have made Negotiate Anything the number one negotiation podcast in the world. I'm your host, Kwame Christian. I'm a business lawyer, mediator, author, and the proud CEO of of the American Negotiation Institute. Now, before we get into today's insightful conversation, I have a golden opportunity for those of you who recognize the power of negotiation in your professional lives. Have you ever found yourself wishing that you could navigate those high stakes conversations with more confidence? Or perhaps you're looking to empower your team with the art of persuasion and conflict resolution? At the American Negotiation Institute, we've crafted specialized keynotes and workshops tailored for those very needs. We've transformed the negotiation skills of professionals worldwide, and we're eager to do the same for you. We believe the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. And our goal is to help you improve your lives and the lives of those around you, one difficult conversation at a time. Don't let another challenging conversation leave you second guessing. Click the link in the description to discover how we can help you find confidence in conflict, negotiate better deals, and have stronger relationships. Because in the world of business, every conversation counts. And now, without further ado, let's jump into the interview.

Chris, thanks for joining us today.

It's a pleasure to be with you.

Yes, it is a pleasure to have you, my friend. So how about you get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do?

Excellent. Well, my name is Chris Baker and I'm the president and CEO of the Delaware County Foundation. And I guess maybe to introduce myself and my organization a little bit, I would have to say that I literally have the best job in the world. I don't mean to brag, but it really is true because every day I get to work at connecting donors with causes that strengthen our region and the world beyond. So to me, that's truly the magic that happens in our work. We are a community foundation, which means that we believe that anyone can make a difference. And our role is to serve as the catalyst in the trusted partner that connects both people and businesses with needs in the community to make those marriages and create a number of win win situations. But if you're coming to our conversation without any familiarity with community foundations, you're probably not alone. And in fact, I think we're probably one of the best kept secrets. One of My board members, in fact, shared that when he came to the board, he only thought that foundations were for the ultra wealthy and those people who are about to die. So that isn't the case. In fact, it's my great pleasure to be able to work with ordinary people that take an extraordinary interest in their community. And. And whether that passion is for the arts, the environment, or student scholarships, they get to take the lead around what their personal philanthropy looks like. And it's my job to support them. So that's really a lot of fun. On the whole, we're part of a movement of over 700 community foundations across the United States that all work to understand the challenges facing our communities and to develop solutions both for today and also for the future.

Chris and I appreciate you joining us because the work that you do is very, very important. And you're right, when it comes to community foundations, it's like America's best kept secret. We have these superheroes working behind the scenes to fund really, really important programs that make communities better. And what's really interesting to me is that bias shows up in really interesting ways. And one of the things that's most fascinating about your role is that you run into a very unique bias because people think that your community doesn't need help. And there are areas of your community that does need help, that do need help. And now that creates a unique challenge for you in your fundraising endeavors. So can you kind of paint that picture for the audience?

Absolutely. And that is not necessarily unique, but it's certainly one of the things that we struggle with. So my community foundation serves one of Ohio's fastest growing and most affluent communities. And because we're not confronted with many of the social challenges, we don't have people standing on every street corner. We're not confronted with homelessness on the side of the road, oftentimes because it's less visible. People believe that we don't have problems here. And the unfortunate reality is that we still have problems, actually a great deal of them. They're just less likely to both receive attention, but also we're less equipped as a community to be able to deal with them. By that, I mean, if you went to a county, to ourself, which is larger metropolitan area, they may have a dozen or more agencies that are all working to address homelessness, whereas here we have one entity, and it may not be able to meet all of the needs. So as you look at all of the challenges that a community could face, in our case, the fact that they're less visible, really does disadvantage our population over others, you know, keeping along the same lines, you know, with homelessness or, you know, housing, you know, young adult homelessness, for instance, is a real challenge. In fact, an Ohio state, you know, study found that they believe that nearly 3,000 young people between the ages of, you know, 18 and 24 are living on the streets in our, you know, community. And there you might have a number of great organizations that are all doing their part to really address that problem. Here we don't have anyone, you know, for that. So I've. I've come to the conclusion that sometimes because of that, it's. It's really more difficult, you know, to live on the margins because we are less willing to address those challenges and frankly, we have less supports in place to do so.

Yep, that makes a lot of sense. And so let me break this down really simply for the audience here. Essentially, people assume that Delaware county is too rich to need donations, and that makes it hard for you to get the donations. Right? And when we think about a bias, it's either a preference towards something or a prejudice against something. And this is one of those interesting situations where essentially a positive bias about your community is getting in the way of you getting the funding that you need to do the work that you want to do. So when you're having those conversations, understanding that that's going to be a persuasive barrier for you in those conversations, how do you try to persuade them that you still need their donations?

Right. Well, I think part of it is really just kind of speaking, you know, to that, you know, challenges that challenge in the way that I, you know, I just, you know, described it. Unfortunately, it doesn't exist. Just. I should probably step back and say it doesn't just exist, you know, for our community. On the philanthropic, you know, side, we also see that with a variety of community funded, you know, projects, not just those that are being funded by, you know, of, you know, philanthropy. So, for instance, again, affordable housing is a challenge facing our region. And we have had for two funding cycles now a project in the city of Delaware, which is a. An important affordable housing project that doesn't receive funding because, again, there is a bias towards incentivizing other locations. And sometimes it's not necessarily, you know, laid out there in something that we can easily address. So, for instance, the funding mechanisms at the state level require, you know, communities to have a certain level of transit infrastructure. Right. So they want to emphasize, you know, density before they'll fund, you know, a project. Well, the unfortunate reality is Our project will never get off the ground. And because we don't have that as something that's available, you know, in the community. So it does take place both on the, you know, the public side of things. I can certainly, you know, share that. Our elected officials will point out that Delaware county is the sixth largest funder to the state budget and they're the last two to receive anything in terms of 88 Ohio's 88 counties. So it's, it's, it is very much, you know, one of those things that's, you know, systematic and unfortunate. But when it comes to, you know, funding community projects through, you know, philanthropy, you know, in a lot of ways we have this geographic bias, right? So the, the bulk of the wealth in Delaware county is really concentrated towards the south of the, you know, the county. And for a lot of folks, they can easily look out on their community and say, you know, hey, things look pretty good here. You know, we're not confronted with all these visible signs of, you know, poverty that you may see, you know, in other places. So because of that, they may be less likely to, you know, to kind of want to step up and fund a project even though that, you know, those same, you know, needs do occur here on a very high level.

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Yep, that makes a lot of sense. And so, I mean that, that is a pretty significant challenge, right? That's a significant challenge because I think what you're doing is great because essentially what you're saying is the number one tool that you're using is raising awareness. And so we realize that, okay, we have a broad range of people who could potentially make philanthropic contributions. And so we need to spread the message and let people know in order to raise awareness. And especially when you think about it again from like a subconscious psychological type of perspective, every day the people, let's say, who are in the southern part of Delaware county, they wake up and the birds are chirping and the sun literally has a smile on its face. Everything looks great. And they wake up and say, everything is great in Delaware County. So essentially every day they're getting marketing subconsciously that we don't need to donate in this realm. And so that makes your heart, your job hard because you need to counter that with your messages. And so that's. That's a persuasive technique more on the marketing side that counters those types of narratives. Now, when it comes to the actual conversations, one on one with donors, what do you do to. To address that element in those conversations? Does the strategy change at all?

Oh, well, I'd say it certainly, you know, does, because one of the. The worst things I think I could possibly do is draw attention that, hey, you're rich and out of touch, but I need you to do something that probably is bound to be a difficult conversation and one that's not likely to lead to a productive result. So the approach that I most often take is I ask for advice. Right. So one of the things that we're seeing in our community, you know, right now are these particular, you know, challenges. Have you witnessed that? Really great. Yeah. So we're seeing that same thing, you know, happen. And here's why we think it's important. What do you think we should do to fix that problem? Right. So that asking for advice is probably one of those, you know, tools that you learn as a fundraiser, that if you're smart and you stay around, you know, long enough, it's. It's probably one of the most ingrained lessons. And in fact, they have a little commonly held, you know, mantra that, you know, if you ask for money, you'll get advice. If you want money, ask for advice. Right. Because the one, you know, does tend to, you know, to lead to, you know, others. So in these conversations, you know, we're trying to, you know, bring that individual to a greater level of awareness, but we're also looking to make them, you know, an expert. We all love to be able to draw on our own personal experiences and find relevant connections to whatever may be happening in our world. And frankly, that is a very positive thing. And that's one way that we find both funding, but we also find involvement, and those things are incredibly important.

This is great. And I love that approach, too. And I think when it comes to the persuasive strategies that people use, asking for advice is one of the most powerful, yet underutilized negotiation and persuasive techniques out there, and it comes with a lot of benefits. But I want to hear from you first. When you think about the strategy of asking for advice, what is it that actually makes it so powerful?

So I, I, again, I, I'm not sure if it's, you know, ego or, or, or simply the, the fact that we're all the hero of our own individual, you know, story. But, but the fact that you're asking, you know, you know, somebody to kind of weigh in and provide, you know, some level expertise on, on a topic, whether they have it or not, can be really important. So I, I, I think that's probably why that strategy, you know, tends to, you know, to work so well. I mean, we all have, you know, opinions on everything from those things that matter to, you know, that great debate between which is better, Coke or Pepsi, you know. Right. So by, by leveraging, you know, those opportunities, you know, somebody has a chance to, you know, kind of weigh in. They get to be the, you know, the expert, and in most cases, you're able to kind of direct them to the, you know, the end result that you want. Now, that doesn't happen every time. I mean, I've certainly experienced some failures, you know, there along the way. But, but generally, as a best practice, you know, asking for advice is, is certainly one of those that tends to pay off dividends.

Absolutely. And to your point, there is no negotiation or persuasive technique that works every single time. If I knew that, I would be a very rich man. One of these days, Chris will figure out that secret sauce. But you're absolutely right. I think it speaks to the ego because people want to add value. They want to feel like they're part of it. And when you have the conversation with people and you're asking for their advice, they feel validated. Oh, yeah. Chris sees me as intelligent. That makes me feel good. And so that's a big part of it. And then it also, interestingly, can also trigger a little bit of humility, too, because we could go into the conversation and say, hey, you think everything's fine, you're wrong. And now they get defensive. The conversation breaks down. Right. We know that's not going to work. But then if you ask for advice, they might offer a solution that doesn't work or that you've tried before. And then you could say, hey, Chris, that's a really great point. And actually that's something we tried before. What else do you think could work? And then it helps to expose their own ignorance to them, which triggers a little bit of humility. Wait, I don't have the answer. Maybe this guy who's asking me the questions does, has the, have the answer. Right? And so it's a really, really powerful technique because it's disarming as well. Because in these conversations they can be combative sometimes. And a lot of times we don't mean for them to get combative, but it's easy for us to get tunnel vision and focus on the fact that at this moment in this conversation, it might seem as though our interests are not aligned and we're working against each other. And so asking for advice is a great way to disarm the other person and make it easier for them to engage. When you think about you as CEO of this organization, I know we often think about, hey, philanthropy, asking for donations. Those are the difficult conversations. But from one CEO to another, I'm assuming that you probably have some difficult conversations inside the company as well with people on your own team. Can you paint a picture of what those day to day types of interactions look like?

So for us, actually things, I guess I'm going to go off into that everything is brilliantly sunny, but in our own work situation, it really kind of is. I've worked diligently in the two and a half years that I've been here to build kind of a, you know, a culture around family and because we, we spend more time during the week with each other than we do our own families. So I want us to have a level of familiarity and comfort that, that really does speak to that, you know, notion of family. And that's, that's really difficult to, you know, you just can't, like, you know, I'm going to write a memo and make that, you know, happen. That that is a cultural component that's built over, you know, time. So, you know, for us it's, it's be with each other socially and for me it's really easy. Our staff is a combined total of five. So my suggestions around making work fun are probably not those that are always going to scale, but for us, that really is something that works well. So every quarter we at least do one type of staff outing. I am the guy that likes to send people home for no reason, just to get them to have a start on their weekend. I can hold down the fort, you know, every now and again to, you know, let them spend, you know, some more time with, you know, with their families. So I think it's those nice little approaches they oftentimes will surprise everybody. We'll crack open a few bottles of wine and sit around and play a game or Something like that. All in the interest, you know, frankly, again, of just developing those close relationships. I often say that, you know, we are a team of all crew, and there are no passengers, so everybody has to, you know, to pull their, you know, weight. So for us, with us being a, you know, small staff, that's actually been pretty, you know, pretty good. I mean, I don't want to brag or anything, but even those individuals that have left our organization to pursue, you know, maybe more lucrative employment elsewhere, they still participate, you know, with us on, you know, committees or volunteer at, you know, special events. And. And I think everything has to do with, you know, that. That culture, you know, component of it. So I probably spend, you know, less time negotiating because of that, because I don't want things to be, you know, a question like, you should never have to come to me and say, you know, hey, I need to take off the afternoon to go to my kids, you know, soccer game. You should just know that I want you to be there and, you know, give me some advance notice, and we'll work it out. We'll take care of each other as a team.

Oh, that's great. Yeah, that is a great answer. Because what it shows is the power of community, shows the power of culture and the power of trust, too. Because when you have that type of culture of trust and there's mutual trust between the people on the team, then it diminishes the amount of conflict that.

You have to have.

And so I think that's. That in itself is an important lesson in conflict resolution, because if you have a stronger relationship, it makes the difficult conversations a lot easier. Here, this is good. This is good, Chris. So let's say there's somebody out here who's saying, wow, I want to help out Delaware County, Ohio. What is the best way for them to get in touch with you and learn more about the amazing work you're doing?

Well, you know, the first thing is just pick up the phone and call or look us up on the, you know, the website. So we certainly want to encourage, you know, folks to, you know, to check us out. Just because we are the Delaware county foundation, it doesn't mean that we only deal with, you know, folks from Delaware County. So you could create a fund here, get involved. But if that isn't feasible for you, I would also encourage you to check out your community foundation. We, again, have 700 of them across the United States. So they're going to be that local philanthropic expert, you know, that can kind of help connect you to things that matter most in your community.

This is great, everybody. We will put links in the description of the episode. Chris, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it.

Thanks.

Kwame, congratulations. You've just joined an elite club by listening to a full episode. You're now officially on the Negotiate Anything team. So welcome aboard. What most team members do is they subscribe to the podcast because that allows them to automatically get the latest episodes of the show. The best things in life lie on the other side of difficult conversations. Keep keep learning, keep practicing, and keep getting better. Your relationships will improve, your career will soar, and you'll have the confidence you need to get the most out of these crucial conversations. Again, thank you for joining the team. We're excited to have you, and I will see you in the next episode.

I'll catch you later.