How to Network Professionally With Frank Agin

Hello, my friends, and welcome to another exciting episode of Negotiate Anything. This show is produced by the American Negotiation Institute and with over 5 million downloads and listeners in over 180 countries, listeners just like you have made this the number one negotiation podcast in the world. Hi, my name is Kwame Christian and I am the founder and CEO of the American Negotiation Institute here at A&I. We believe that the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. And we are passionate, passionate about providing you with the best content that will help you to make your difficult conversations easier both at work and at home. Lastly, I want to remind you that we offer consulting and conduct trainings both virtually and in person all around the world. Our focus is in three main areas. First, negotiation and conflict resolution. Second, leadership. And lastly, diversity, equity and inclusion. Check the link in the description below to learn more about how we could work with you and your team. And now, without further ado, let's jump into the interview. Frank, thanks for joining us again.

Well, I appreciate being on the, on the program, Kwame. It's just, it's always nice to be back. It's always nice to have a conversation.

Yes, likewise. We're excited to have you again. So for the listeners who may have forgotten since it's been two years since your last episode, let them know who you are and what you do.

Yeah, my name is Frank Agan. I am in Columbus, Ohio. I run an organization called AM Spirit Business Connections. And you know, people are always trying to work up their 32nd pitch and, you know, trying to get it down. I'm 25 years later, I'm still trying to hone it. You know, I'm still tinkering. But you know, we just, we're kind of a no nonsense, no nonsense networking organization that connects driven small business people to reliable sources of referrals. I mean, there are weekly meetings where people come in and they, they develop relationships and as a part of that, they really want to help each other and they learn how they can help each other. And from that, referrals happen. So that's, you know, really what I do. I think we're at 18, 19 franchisees, you know, maybe 10 states. I don't know, I got, I'm always the last to know, right? I mean, if something's happening, we're, who is this person? I mean, which is a good thing. Right? But so I don't always have accurate numbers but order magnitude.

Yeah, no, this is great. And listeners, again, you'll see with my friends, they're very humble. So Frank is one of the most connected people I know and am spirit is incredible. So we'll put links in the description of this episode so you could check it out because it's like the reach is significant. So if you have a company, having a company is. That takes a lot of. But then to have a company successfully franchise it once, that takes a lot. But 18 times, that's really impressive. So kudos to you.

Well, it's actually like 26, but I've had some failures along the way.

Listen, you wouldn't be a legitimate business person if you didn't have failures so well.

But I always tell people, you know, like with, when I go out work with these chapters, I think we're, you know, 120 chapters now. And I'll go and I'll tell them there have been 200 chapters, you know, so I have failed, but I learn a lot from my failures. You know what I mean? The Buckeyes. Let's pick on the Buckeyes. Buckeyes win a game by 50 points. I don't know if there's any learning in that.

Right, right.

We're on the heels of the Penn State game. There was some learning in that game, you know, so, you know, failures, challenging times. We learn a lot. So I'm, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm. I embrace my failures.

That's good. No, this is great. And listeners, for this episode, what we're going to do, we're going to make this one of the open conversations types of episodes. Those have been getting a lot of positive feedback. And because of Frank's background and his success in business, I think it would be great to just open him up and see what's inside. And let's dig into what you just said about the failures because that's a major part of what it takes to be successful in business. Being able to own the failures, learn from them and improve upon them. And your openness about the failures, especially with the people who are in the chapters, that's really interesting because a lot of times people try to hide that because it's something that causes them shame. And so when you think about your mindset around failure and building upon that, what does that look like for you?

Well, I think it depends on the failure. I mean, sometimes, you know, in the moment that you screwed up. Right. I mean, and, and I am only human. I can get, I can have my buttons pushed. And I remember years ago, somebody pushed my buttons and I've forget what it was, but I just turned to them. And told them to F off. It was horrible. It was just a horrible moment for me. Right? It's. And I knew the second it was out of my mouth that I had screwed up, you know, and, you know, it's. What are you gonna do? You know, you're trying to come back from that. And it's. I mean, I did. I own the organization, so it wasn't like I could be canceled or fired or anything like that. Well, I guess you could be canceled in this day and age for pretty much anything. But, you know, I built up enough credit, enough social capital with a lot of people, like, yeah, okay, that wasn't good. But, you know, stop. Stop flogging yourself, right? It's done. It's over. We didn't like that guy either kind of a thing. So, you know, so you kind of know in those moments that you've failed, but then there are other times where there are failures and you don't necessarily know it. And, you know, the wonderful thing about. Certainly in the Midwest, people are really nice. The bad thing about people in the. In the Midwest is that they're really nice. And you don't know a lot of times, right. I mean, I've talked to people in New York, I mean, and they'll just pretty much tell you, you know, they'll. Being nice is when they say no, and there's not an expletive, right. I mean, it's still. I mean, in the Midwest, it's like, well, we'll think about it. You know, let's think about it. You know, get back to us in a year or whatever. And you just. In their mind, it's like, oh, he's, you know, he's never coming back, you know, and so, same sort of a thing. You might fail in a relationship and not really know that you failed in a relationship because they didn't give you a straight answer. Trying to spare your feelings doesn't really help you improve. And then you kind of come back maybe a year later through hearsay or something like that and find out, yeah, it was, here's the reason why. And, you know, those are. Those are harder to deal with. You know, having an outburst with somebody is, you know, you just learn to correct those things. I mean, we all, you know, okay, I'm not going to have let my buttons be pushed. And when I feel they're being pushed, I'm going to walk away or I'm going to take a deep breath. I'm going to count to 10 and, you know, try and deal with it. That Much better. But when you don't know that you failed and then a year's gone by and it's like, oh my gosh, there's other things that I probably screwed up as well. That's really kind of a lonely, desperate feeling of, geez, what opportunities did I miss? Because, you know, when you don't have the outburst, okay. You know, it's, you know, it's kind of like those signs and companies. Right. Zero days since or 100 days since the last accident. Right. So, you know, right. Hey, we're doing okay. But when you have an accident that's really unseen, you know, a faux pas of some sort, that's really, you know, so you have to, you know, you have to, you just have to kind of take it a day at a time. And, you know, we're always learning, as I indicated, about how I describe my business. I mean, I'm always learning, you know, listening to other people. You just have to kind of keep after it.

Yes. Oh, this is a great response, Frank. I appreciate this. And I appreciate your candor too, because a couple of things. So first, when you talked about that incident, you had to go way back for one of those, like a flagrant foul, right?

Yeah.

And one of the things that you, you said is that you have to stop flogging yourself and move forward. And I think a lot of times when we feel guilt or shame for what it is that we do, our internal voice can be our own worst critic where we continue to beat ourselves up far beyond the point of utility. And so a lot of self compassion and self forgiveness is, is embedded within what it takes to learn, improve, and grow. Because you have to say, I am human. I'm going to make mistakes. But my goal is to make sure I don't make the same mistake twice. And we've gone years since the last accident in this example. But you bring up a really good point when you're talking about the mistakes that you don't realize that you make. Because you're right, the Midwestern nice is one of our greatest strengths and weaknesses at the same time because it helps us to avoid important conversations that need to happen. But doing it with a smile, that kind of hides our pain. And in those situations, what are some signals when you look back and you've heard, you realize, oh, there was a mistake that was made. I didn't realize that. When you look back, do you see any signs that you missed that something was off?

You know, I don't know that I, I don't know that I There's actually a sign or a specific incident that. That I can think of, mainly because, you know, the. The outburst, which was actually at a Frisch's Big Boy in Dayton, Ohio. I mean, you. I remember it clearly because it was only one, right. But the little faux pas of every day of maybe not, you know, treating somebody how we should be treating them. They happen all the time. And. And some in, you know, math and science is great because one plus one always equals two, but interacting with people is never the same twice, you know, And I hear people saying that, you know, you probably talk to all sorts of people on the Negotiate Anything podcast, but people are different, and they're different on different days. Situations are different. I mean, a year ago, we didn't have inflation like, we have inflation, you know, and so things change, and people's mindsets change and how you deal with them. And. And. And so it may have been something that happened, you know, during the pandemic, you know, but they. They hang on to it in a different way. I don't know. It's. You know, it's really hard to. You just have to try and improve day in and day out and just, you know, just learn to. And maybe it's just with years, I've learned to mellow and not, I think, patience. Somebody asked me on a podcast, you know, if I could change anything about myself, what it would be. It was patience. You need to be more patient. And I've always been impatient. I think, well, you're an entrepreneur. You kind of want it. You want it now, right? I left a firm. I was making X at the firm. I figured I'd make x times 2 in a year because I'm hardworking and doesn't work that way, not in a year. It takes time, and you just kind of have to keep after it, and you have to keep after it, and you have to keep after it. And, you know, and so you just, you know, you have to. So I've learned over the years to be more patient. And, you know, I know in the past, there have been times I've really tried to, for lack of a better term, push people in the organization. I know this works, right? I need you to do this well, you've got kids. You get it. You know, you need to do it this way because it's worked for me, you know, and what I have found is, is that to the extent I push somebody, I get resistance. But if I go to them and say, listen, and I do this all the time, I will love you any which way? I'm here to support you as a business person. I think you should do this. If you choose not to do it, I will still love you and I'll still support you, but I think this is a better way for you. And what ends up happening more often than not is they will take my advice. But if I come in and I say, you know what? This is my way. This is how we're going to do it, because this is how we always do it, I get tons of resistance. It's just not worth the effort. But if you kind of back off and just like, yeah, you know, however you, you know. In fact, there's a study I just, I just printed off. Are you familiar with. There's a. It's a newsletter out there. It's called Cy Blog. Yeah, it's. It's like $60 a year to subscribe. Really inexpensive. Every day. He's got something coming out. It's out of the uk, but this is, this is one of the articles that came out a couple weeks ago. The one really easy persuasion technique. Everyone should know. It's, it's. And it says, he goes, says it's supported by 42 studies on 22, 000 people. It's the easiest, most practical persuasion technique available. And what the answer is, or what it is, is it's called the but you are free technique. Right? You should do it this way. But you are free to do it your own way. And by giving people that choice, you know, I mean, I just read this a week ago, but I've been practicing it for. This is really affirmed. I've been practicing it for years. I think you should do it this way. It's my best advice. If you don't, I still love you guys. I'm not going to make you feel bad. I'm not going to say, I told you so. You guys can do it your own way, you know, and, you know, it might be immediate, where they're like, okay, let's follow you. Or it might be a year later saying, yeah, you were saying last year. Yeah, I did. And I still believe that and I still love you guys. And, you know, if you, if you need help getting back on track, I'm here.

Does your company invest in professional development training? If you believe that your team would benefit from a negotiation workshop, all you need to do is go to our website, fill out the workshop request form, and then we'll set up a time to chat. These workshops are completely customizable and we've done them all around the country negotiation and conflict resolution skills are beneficial across all professions, but they're especially useful in procurement, purchasing, sales, sourcing and contract management. Our calendar is filling up quickly and we even have some workshops scheduled for next year if you think you might want one. I'd suggest reaching out soon so you don't miss out. Check out the link in the description to learn more and we will be right back after this. This is so good, Frank. It makes so much sense. And I think again, it's one of those things where the counterintuitive approach is actually the most powerful approach. And I love the fact that you brought in science here and I love the fact that you gave me another resource. So the A and I team who's editing this podcast, your homework is to find the guy you said CY blogs.

Oh, I'll email, I'll email you a link.

Perfect.

Yeah, yeah, I'll email you the article. And, and I mean every day there's like two that they put out. And some are, you know, some aren't worth my time. They're not of interest. Right. Mental health, sorts of things. It just doesn't. They're important. It's just not important to me. But a lot of them are, you know, relationship persuasion, you know. Well, we were talking before we hit record just about being active in life, you know, and how being. Having an active lifestyle, what they're finding. We are on the, we're on the cutting edge of really finding some neat stuff about people. I wish I could live another hundred years just to benefit from it all.

Hey, listen, depending on where the science goes, you might.

Yeah. Who knows? Who knows? My kids are rolling their eyes. Oh my God. No.

That'S funny. No, this is great. And we'll have, we'll reach out and see if we can get somebody from their team on the pod too. But you're right. And I think the kind of. It's so funny. It's kind of like when you think about Taoism and like the study of like away the art of like trying not to try somehow, like just going with that flow leads to better results in other aspects of our life. It's really interesting to see how that same concept applies in interpersonal relationships. Because they. You think about Newton's third law. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction when it comes to persuasion. A lot of times the harder we push, the more resistance we get. And people just are saying it's not about. In their mind subconsciously. It's not about the idea, it's not about what it is. That you're saying. It's how you're saying it, that me as a human, I feel an innate drive to fight back in order to assert myself, to demonstrate to you and to me that I still have agency and autonomy in this situation. And sometimes we push so hard that the only way that they feel as though they can assert themselves is by resisting, even if it is in their best interest to go with what you're saying.

Well, and it's true of really anybody over the age of two. Right? I mean, right before kids are two, I mean, it's like, yeah, whatever, right? Just give me a bottle, you know, change my diaper and. But, you know, at that point, terrible twos, they're really asserting themselves. You know, hey, I'm going to do this, you know, but, you know, that's. Again, it comes down to patience. And I have franchisees that I try to coach through this. You know, listen, I know what you want, and I totally agree with what you want. The best way to get it is not to try to get it. You know, it's, oh, no, Frank, you got to push them. It's like, yeah, it's. I'm just telling you. And some of them wake up to it and realize, yeah, okay, I just need to. I need to be understanding. And some of them keep learning the same lesson over and over and over again and then blaming other people. Right? It's. They're dumb. They're dumb. Well, they're not. You know, maybe in this they are, but they're just, you know, they're. It's human nature, and you're. You're pushing their buttons in the wrong way.

Absolutely. And let's. Let's stay on that, Frank, because I think it demonstrates something that I've seen a lot of times, too, is that sometimes people are too smart for their own good. And what I mean is that they say to themselves, I have the right answer. I have deemed myself the sole arbiter of truth in this interaction. It's my job to educate the uneducated and let them know what the right answer is. And then the uneducated air quotes now, heavy air quotes as I'm saying this. They push back, they resist. And then the person who's educated says, you see, they're too dumb to absorb my brilliance. The problem is them, not me. But really, when you think about it, when you think about the science that you just shared and just the decades of psychological research, who's really the dumb one? Because what you're doing is you're trying to persuade people in a way that is frankly unscientific. Because the science demonstrates what works, you know, because if you push too hard, you. You're too egotistical, you don't give them an opportunity to agree without, While. While still saving face. Right. There are just decades of psychological research that demonstrate that this super aggressive approach isn't scientifically sound. And yet people are guided by their emotions and their ego, and it pushes them to approach it in this way. And so I think a lot of times, again, we have to realize that even though we will point the finger at other people, we have to take some responsibility for the. The quality of our conversations by recognizing that there is something that we can do. We can adjust our approaches. We just have to be humble enough to do it.

Yeah, well, in the end, that's all we can control is ourselves, you know, and it's. We want to control other people. We can't motivate them. We can just kind of put things out there and hope that they, you know, hope they take the right. The right path. I mean, I've learned that with my kids. I mean, they're my kids. I have three kids. They're all very different. My oldest, well, they're all smart, but my oldest is. He's kind of a software developer, and he cannot be sold. Right. You can't. Hey, we should get this phone. He's gonna, he wants to look into it. He wants to come to the conclusion that that's the phone, you know, and I've got other kids where, you know, my daughter. It's like, okay, if that's what you say, then we'll go with it. You know, she might have opinions on other things, but they're just, they're different. Are you familiar with the bank program? Have you ever had people on about the bank? Bank is an acronym. Basically what it is. It's a, it's, it's. There's a basis in science for it. But what this woman has discovered is that people have different buying personalities. Okay.

Yeah.

So some of us are, you know, I know there's, you know, there's. What are some of the other behavioral science or behavioral assessments, but this really has to do with approaching people differently based on what their buying style is. Some people you can sell with, oh, it's great. You'll make a million dollars. Right. And they're. Okay, okay. And, and that's how they buy. For me, that's a total turnoff. Right. For me, it's got to be very organized. I kind of need to See what it's about. And my son is kind of a, he's kind of a. He's a knowledge base. So the bank is an acronym. B is for blueprint. Right. Somebody who's kind of approaches things very met methodically. The A is action. They're the people like, oh, you know, how much, how much money can I make? And you know, the nurture person is more about, you know, you know, more about just kind of creating, creating community, I guess in your terms, you know, the end, you would sell an end person on, hey, you know, my program will teach you how to get more out of situations and still have great friends. You know, the K person you would promote, you would promote to them saying, you know what? This program really delves into science and how the brain works to get people to do what you want them to do. The B person would be, yeah, we're going to step you through this course and we're going to take you through A and B and C and we do this and at the end you'll come out here and the A person would be like, man, you're going to go in guns ablazing, you're going to come out with everything, you know. And so you have four different approaches to selling and you figure out what people are on the front end before you go to talk to them. And there's a lot of people put a lot of signals out there, certainly on LinkedIn, how people put their LinkedIn profiles. In fact, this, this particular company has a tool that will take people's LinkedIn profiles and analyze them and say, okay, yeah, this is this type of person.

Yeah.

And I mean, it's not perfect. It's humans, it's never perfect, but there's certainly something to it.

So very interesting that's fascinating. No, I've never heard of that, like in particular the bank approach, but it makes a lot of sense. And Frank, it's fascinating too because like you said, it's not perfect. We're never going to be able to read. Yeah, let me not say never. Who knows where technology is going, but at this stage we're not able to read people perfectly. But what we can do is become better with, with our analyses. Right. And so the more tools that we have at our disposal to filter through as we're analyzing people, the more, the clearer we can get with our persuasive approach, our communication approach. How I build rapport with you will be different from the way I build rapport with every, with other people. And I remember this saying, I forget the specifics of it, but what they would say is, well, if you had an hour to chop down a tree, how would you spend your time? And they said, well, I'd spend the first 50 minutes sharpening my axe. Right, right. And I think when we think about persuasion, a lot of times people are looking for a silver bullet. They're looking for magic tricks. Use this simple trick, it wins every time. If anybody says that they're lying, and if they're telling the truth, get them on the podcast. We'll see. But what we want to do is at the beginning of our. With our relationships, as we're building rapport throughout the conversation. We're aiming. We're aiming, who is this person? What do they want? Why do they want it? What really drives them? How do I truly empathize with them and see it from their perspective? And then once I get a pretty solid analysis, now I can start shooting my shot, but at the same time, not pushing too hard, because then I invite the resistance. It's. It's a really. It's a really interesting blend of art and science when you put these things together.

Yeah, well. And like I say, it changes day to day. It just changes on. I don't. Just how we're doing. You know, somebody's. Somebody needs money. Their approach to life is going to be different. You know, you just. You don't know, or they're having a bad day or I don't know. So it's all very interesting. It's. It, it takes a lot of energy. It takes a lot of energy to, you know, I have this conversation with my wife all the time. She's. Here's a corporate job. She's very successful. It's a lot of spreadsheets. And, you know, she interacts with three or four people pretty consistently. And, you know, I say, yeah, I just, I. I was on two podcasts today. I'm exhausted, you know, because, you know, and it's. It's like, really, what's so tough about that? But it's like you're on a podcast with somebody you've never been on before, or maybe on a zoom call with people you don't know. And we don't realize it, but our subconscious mind is trying to read everything that's going on, and that just takes a ton of energy.

Communicating well and connecting at a high level takes a lot of energy. And, you know, people expend energy differently. But I've also run into some people who just seem to expend no energy when it comes to Interacting with people, like, why aren't you analyzing anything? And. But again, I think it is the, the burden that you carry of being an expert communicator because you see the world differently. You're seeing the nuances, you're seeing the micro expressions, you're thinking about the, on a subconscious level, like the psychology that you've, you've seen in your own life. But also, since you're constantly studying, it's like, oh, does this apply in this situation? There's a lot happening beneath the surface for you to appear as calm, cool and collected as you are in these high level business meetings and podcast interviews too. And so it is very, very exhausting if you're communicating well.

Yeah, no, it's. I feel it, I feel it. You know, just have. Sometimes I just have to just go sit in the chair or go for a walk, you know, and just, I'm just 10 minutes. I just need to kind of. It's like, you know, we reboot a computer, right, to kind of get it functioning better. It's kind of the same thing. I just need to walk away. And. Well, you probably talk about it in, you know, with the American negotiation is to, is just telling people sometimes the best negotiation is just stop negotiating, walk away and just, you know, let things sink in. Because people, people, people throw up roadblocks needlessly and then when they calm down, realize that, yeah, it, you know, we're not fighting over, we're fighting over something stupid, you know? You know, I'm sure, like, you know, marriages that break apart, right, they just, they get hung up on little things. Just what principal principle is a very expensive thing, right?

Very expensive.

Yeah, they get hung up on little things. And if they can just calm themselves and just say, okay, you know what, it's, it's really not worth it. You know, it's not worth it for the kids, it's not worth it for us. You know, we're going to be paying attorneys more than this, you know, whatever, whatever it's worth, right? You know, time at this, at the, the timeshare, which was a bad decision to begin with.

Right? It's really true because imagine, like, imagine if you're talking to a construction company and they, you say, hey, can you build this house? Describe the house. I'll say, sure, we could build it. Okay, I want you to build it today. Like all of it today. Yeah, I want all of it today. That's simply not possible. Now let's bring it back to these difficult conversations. Sometimes we are dealing with some big Hairy issues. Right. And we want to try to solve it all today. You're trying to. You're trying to accomplish something that psychologically is untenable. It's impossible to get somebody to move that much with that level of emotionality in that period of time. And I remember one time coaching somebody through a difficult conversation that she was having and she was describing the situation, and I was like, all right, so this. We're going to approach this incrementally. The first conversation, all you're going to do is you're going to listen. You're just going to listen, you're going to empathize, and you're going to ask some probing questions. They might not have the answer. I don't want you to provide them with your answer or your version. Just ask those questions and then just tell them you appreciated the time. And then I want you to wait. Then she called me, like, the next day. She's like, yeah, I had the conversation you yesterday. And then they. They emailed me today and they changed their mind. I didn't even push. Exactly. Exactly. A lot of times we don't have to, but we have to remember that when. If we're. If we're trying to create a. Like a beautiful dish of persuasion, sometimes one of the most important ingredients is time. And it goes back to what you said about patience, too.

Yeah, well, that's. I mean, that's it. You know, it's. We. That's been. If I look back at relationships that I have not destroyed, but just created unnecessary tension in. It's been lack of patience. You know, just. I. You know, back when I had this blow up at Frish's Big Boy in Dayton, Ohio, it was just patience. I should have just walked away and said, you know, I don't need a resolution to this today. I'll come back and really think on it and, you know, come up with other arguments that, you know, you know, another way to explain my position, maybe there's a middle ground where we both can get what we want. I just knew what I wanted, and he knew what he wanted, and they were incongruent. And, you know, he wanted a decision then, and I didn't want to give a decision then. And, you know, and so the rest is the F word. Right? So.

You know, Frank, one of the things that I love about this story is that, like, every time you tell it, there's more detail at that precious Big Boy in Dayton, Ohio. Monday, October 31, 2000.

It was a Wednesday. It was a Wednesday. Wednesday in the Winter. Well, but I think, you know, that's where we just start. You know, we start beating ourselves up. You know, we remember the bad things. And, you know, I'm sure that's not the only bad thing, but it certainly, Certainly something comes to mind. You triggered it. I don't.

For whatever reason, listen, that's. That's what I do from time to time. I've been described as triggering from time to time. But, hey, you know, it makes good podcast spotters. I appreciate it. Yeah, this is good. Frank, it is always a pleasure, my friend. This was phenomenal, as usual. I appreciate you, and I appreciate you taking the time to share your wisdom here. Before you go, let the listeners know again about you, everything that you do, how they can get in touch, and also give franchise information, too, because the work that you do is incredible, and you're creating communities in meaningful ways.

Yeah. I run an organization that. That connects small business types, entrepreneurs, sales reps, professionals, into weekly meetings where they learn about each other and they exchange referrals. You know, the best way to get a hold of me is I have a website, frankagain.com and it's really kind of the central hub. It's. It'll take you to AM Spirit if you want to go to AM Spirit. But what I have found over the years is that not everybody is a good candidate for our program, but everybody needs help negotiating. And I have. I have resources, other resources. I have books I've written that people can tap into and just, you know, go to frankagan.com I'm starting to pull more stuff together on a website called networking-rx.com or networking hyphen rx.com where I just. I have. There's some paid stuff there, some paid videos, but there's just a lot of free information. And I mean, relationships are everything. It's. They really are.

So 100, my friend. I appreciate you. Thanks again for coming on. All right, congratulations. You've just joined an elite club by listening to a full episode. You're now officially on the Negotiate Anything team. So welcome aboard. What most team members do is they subscribe to the podcast because that allows them to automatically get the latest episodes of the show. The best things in life lie on the other side of difficult conversations. Keep learning, keep practicing, and keep getting better. Your relationships will improve, your career will soar, and you'll have the confidence you need to get the most out of these crucial conversations. Again, thank you for joining the team. We're excited to have you, and I will see you in the next episode. I'll catch you later.