How to Stop Overthinking and Channel Your Emotions for Success with Melody Wilding

Hello, my friend, and welcome to another exciting episode of Negotiate Anything. Thanks for joining us today. With over 10 million downloads and listeners from more than 180 different countries, it's dedicated listeners just like you who have made Negotiate Anything the number one negotiation podcast in the world. I'm your host, Kwame Christian. I'm a business lawyer, mediator, author, and the proud CEO of of the American Negotiation Institute. Now, before we get into today's insightful conversation, I have a golden opportunity for those of you who recognize the power of negotiation in your professional lives. Have you ever found yourself wishing that you could navigate those high stakes conversations with more confidence? Or perhaps you're looking to empower your team with the art of persuasion and conflict resolution? At the American Negotiation Institute, we've crafted special specialized keynotes and workshops tailored for those very needs. We've transformed the negotiation skills of professionals worldwide, and we're eager to do the same for you. We believe the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. And our goal is to help you improve your lives and the lives of those around you, one difficult conversation at a time. Don't let another challenging conversation leave you second guessing. Click the link in the description to discover how we can help you find confidence in conflict, negotiate better deals, and have stronger relationships. Because in the world of business, every conversation counts. And now, without further ado, let's jump into the interview. Melody, thanks for joining us today.

I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

Yeah, it's our pleasure. So how about you get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do?

I am a executive coach, a licensed social worker, and I am the author of a new book called Trust Stop overthinking and channel your emotions for success at work.

Fantastic. So let's get into the book. Where should we begin?

I think we can begin with how this book came about. That might be a good place to get started.

Perfect. So let's start with that origin story then.

Yeah. So, you know, as I mentioned, my background is as a social worker. So I began my career in psychology. And really I, from a very young age, was your consummate A plus gold star student who lived to exceed expectations in every way. And I followed that path of success that was laid out for me. Got good grades in school, went to a good college, got a good job out of school, and. And came to a point early on in my career where I found myself completely and utterly burned out. And it wasn't for lack of being good. At my job or not being able to manage my time. But it was because I had let my own tendencies, my own people pleasing, lack of boundaries, perfectionism, self doubt. I had let all of that become such a heavy weight to bear that I literally couldn't go on anymore. So I came to a point in my career where I had to use my training in human behavior and psychology. I had to use all of those tools on myself. And now as an executive coach, I work with people who are just like me, who are also highly sensitive, but also high achieving and have that same combination of traits that can at once be our superpowers, that help us excel and strive in our careers, but can at the same time be a detriment and really hold us back if we don't have the right tools. To be aware of these qualities and know how to manage them.

That is fantastic. And I'm excited to know that I'm speaking to somebody else who has a psychology undergrad degree too. So this is great. So we will go heavy into the psychology there. So let's think about this because right now you're at a point where you, you've written this book, you're kind of able to understand the, those, the barriers that you faced, maybe where they came from and then how to overcome them. And so maybe we could use you as a case study. So what led you to have these types of barriers in your life and then we can transition into like what you did to overcome them.

Absolutely. So in the book I talk about this personality type which I've defined called a sensitive striver. So again, pretty self explanatory, but it's that combination of being a deep feeler, ending deep thinker, combined with that ambition and drive to be the best version of yourself. And those two sides, when they come together again, can be a strength, but can hold you back. And so in the book I define six core qualities that make up being a sensitive shriver. And when these qualities are unbalanced, that's when we have the downsides. So I can give you a full a couple examples of that. Which one of the strive qualities, the first one is sensory sensitivity. So that's having a more intense nervous system response since we as sensitive shrivers have a more finely attuned central nervous system. This is about 20% of the population, about 1 in 5 people that has a set of different genetic differences and actually brain differences that leads them to being more responsive to everything that's happening both within and around them. So I was someone especially earlier on in My career, when I didn't realize it would get overwhelmed very easily. And even now, today, if I'm put under pressure or I feel like I'm being rushed, or there's urgency around something, I very easily can become frazzled and I completely shut down. So that's one example of how that manifests. The second would be thoughtfulness. So we sensitive shrivers, and this is certainly the case for me, we're reflective, intuitive, we, we think through decisions before we act on them. But again, if that's unbalanced, that can look like worrying, indecision, overthinking things, self doubt. So as you can see, all of these traits have, have an upside, but they have a flip side along with them.

Yeah, this is really interesting. And what's, what's interesting to me too is taking a step back and understanding where you can put yourself to be successful. Because based on my understanding of the highly sensitive people, I'm thinking back to Susan's, Susan Kane's book Quiet. She talked about a lot of the research in that too. It's something that you can see in young children. Some people are more sensitive to stimulation and then other children, they need a lot more in order to be simulated. So the people who need more to be stimulated, they're jumping out of planes and going to rock concerts. And the other people need like quiet in order to be able to function. And so it makes me think that you need to be very mindful of what type of atmosphere you put yourself in. So for example, if you're in a really, really fast moving startup and you have to do a lot of things a lot of different ways, a lot of times and every day is different, that could be easily overwhelming.

100%. You put it perfectly that the whole point of describing this and being aware of this personality is so that you can manage yourself better and you can create conditions for your own success. Or if you know someone like this, you can understand their tendencies so you know how to communicate, work with them better to achieve better outcomes. Because if you're having a difficult conversation or negotiating with a sensitive striver and you come at them very aggressively, you dump a ton of information on them all at once. Well, they're going to shut down or they're going to be very easily overwhelmed. So even just being aware because you're, you either are this personality type or you're dealing with them, having the awareness gives you power to get the most out of these qualities and traits.

Right? Okay. So for the person who identifies in this way, it's Important for them to be mindful of what situations they put themselves in and even what occupations they find themselves in, because that can be a key driver for success. And then for the people who are working with them, it's really important to adjust the way that you, you have these conversations with, because you could be in a situation where, for example, you might be very direct and you might have a lot of information, and at the same time you need to make a quick decision and you are talking to the person who's a sensitive striver, and then they're taking a lot of time to process and maybe even they shut down completely because they're overwhelmed in general. And now you just piled something else on to them. And so you think to yourself, either they are ghosting me, ignoring me, they don't care, or they're utterly indifferent to the success of the company. And so if you don't understand that personality type, then you might find yourself in a position where you are misreading the situation and interpreting malicious intent, maybe where it doesn't exist.

That's exactly correct. And the flip side of all of this too is it's important for folks who are sensitive shrivers to realize that not everyone is like you. There are going to be people who want more direct information, who want just the bottom line and no context, who want to know, well, what's your point of view? They don't want to have a whole discussion about process and how did you arrive at this? And so it's important for the sensitive strivers out there to also realize that, yes, you need to know yourself, but you also need to be flexible to the fact that the other 80% of people aren't like us and don't necessarily have the same tendencies as we do. And so to be persuasive, to get the outcomes, to get your needs met, you need to be flexible and be able to adapt to other people's preferences as well.

Gotcha. And Melody, here's something that would be interesting to discuss, and I'm not sure if there's any way to really do a study on this, but I kind of want to get your perception, so I want to get an idea of how different things could be perceived based on whether or not you are a sensitive striver or not. So, for instance, if you have a boss who's very direct and really wants to make things like decisions really quickly in an atmosphere like a startup, where things are happening all the time and it's chaos all the time, right. Is it possible that the person who's A sensitive striver might perceive the direct communication and consistent direct communication from a boss as controlling or aggressive because of the differences in how they're, they're made up.

Yes. And you know, I will say that for the most part a characterization of sensitive strivers is that they do tend to be more reserved, thoughtful, deliberate communicators. But I do have sensitive strivers that are my clients or in my programs who are more direct and dominant and want it done asap. They just also happen to be more aware of other people's emotions, empathetic to what's going on. So I just want to say it's, it's, it is definitely a tendency in the way they skew, but it's not sort of the end all be all. But yes, I would say that more times than not, sensitive shrivers tend to perceive other people as being dominant and aggressive. But what tends to happen is that they internalize those responses. In thinking I'm not good enough, I'm not a good decision maker, I don't have good judgment, I'm an imposter. They start to turn somebody else's style to mean something negative about them. So it isn't always sort of blaming or judging or berating other people for being the way they are, but becomes more stiff self criticism and self recrimination.

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100%. Perfectly well put.

Perfect. Well, great. Okay, now, when it comes to this, this work that you've done, especially in the book, what have you found to be one of the most interesting and surprising counterintuitive points that you've discovered?

That is such a great question. And I think as I've talked about this work more, the big light bulb that has gone on for many sensitive shrivers and the people I've talked to is the idea that you, you treat people how to treat you. And if you don't have respect for yourself, if you are the first one to walk all over your own boundaries, to go back on commitments, you said, then everybody else is going to feel like they can do the same. So that idea of you treat people how to treat you, and that goes for setting boundaries around teaching people to respect your time, how to communicate with you, but also in terms of assertiveness. So we were talking about sort of dominant personalities and sensitive strivers. But sensitive strivers tend to be people pleasers and pushovers for the most part because they are so aware and vigilant to other people's needs, so perceptive of those things that they put themselves second and they tend to have low self confidence. So they tend to think that, well, my needs don't matter, I would just be causing a fuss if I talked about them. But by doing that, you're actually contributing to and creating a dynamic where other people don't respect your needs, which then becomes this whole vicious cycle that leads to more resentment and burnout. And so it's really essential to realize that sensitive Shriners themselves hold the key many times to stopping that. That if you make the decision to respect yourself, to trust yourself, other people are going to follow suit and start responding more positively to you.

Yeah. And so two things to address. First of all, I really appreciate you staying on brand and saying trust yourself, which is the title of the book. Everybody link in the description, make sure to buy it. Second thing is this. It seems as though especially, and correct me if I'm wrong here, when I'm thinking about the big five personality traits, openness to experience, conscientiousness, extroversion, agreeableness and neuroticism. Tell me if I'M at all in the ballpark here. I'm assuming if we're trying to create a personality makeup using the big five personality traits, we're assuming that the person who is a sensitive striver is high in agreeableness, higher than normal in neuroticism. Is that fair?

That would be mostly fair, yes. I would say high agreeableness, high conscientiousness.

That's absolutely.

Yes.

Yes, for sure. That makes a lot of sense.

Many times. Many times, yes. Personally, I am fairly high in neuroticism, so that should tell you a lot. But yes, it tends to be those three. And then if we're talking a disc assessment, the disc communication, style preferences, I tend to see sensitive shrivers be high on steadiness and again, conscientiousness. Although I said I do have a few dominant types thrown in there. And then in terms of Myers Briggs, they tend to be INFJ, INTJ, ENFJ, ENTJ. So about 70% of sensitive shivers are also introverted. You mentioned Susan Cain. She very graciously provided a blurb for my book. And so there is a big overlap between introversion and sensitivity. But about 30% of sensitive shrivers are extroverted, meaning they gain energy by being around people, which of course can be a tricky, a tricky line to walk. But those are some of the parallels to the other common personality assessments.

Yeah, that is fantastic because one of the things that I've found very interesting, especially when you explore people who are high in agreeableness, it's like you said, it's the people pleasers, the people who might describe themselves as doormats, those type of things. When you're high in agreeableness, you're really good at making other people feel good about the position that they're in. And so even if it seems as though you are going along with what the person is saying, you as a sensitive striver, you in yourself might feel a little bit of resentment, a little bit of hurt, and a little bit of displeasure and discomfort with the direction that things are going, while at the same time making the person with whom you are speaking feel as though you are 100% on board. And so the other person has no opportunity to course correct. Because they think that you are down for the cause.

Absolutely. And you said a very important keyword in there, which is resentment. And that is something I teach in the book, it's something I teach to all of my clients, is to use those emotional signals for good, to realize that that emotion of resentment is trying to send you a message that, that you aren't expressing your needs fully, that maybe you need to set a stronger boundary. So I would be encouraging everyone to just do a quick assessment of where are situations where I am feeling resentful. Perhaps I agreed to something and I gave more than I felt I wanted to, or I said I would help a colleague out on a project. I thought it would be a month now it's been six months. And every time I see that invitation hit my inbox, I just have that seething sense of resentment come up. So it's a very strong emotional signal that can point you towards what's a. What's a more constructive action you can take that would be to your benefit, but also the other person. Because if you're coming into something resentful, other people can sense your energy, they can sense your disengagement, your overwhelm or just your frustration towards something. So it's very important to be aware of that and be honest with yourself. But then also the other person.

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And it reminds me of the one of a term called emotional leakage where it's like, yeah, your resentment in this example will manifest itself in ways that you cannot really fully control. You're trying to keep it together and then it sneaks out. And it's almost like your true emotions are undermining the people pleaser inside of you. So you're trying to go from with the flow, but you don't want to go with the flow, but you've made everybody think you're going with the flow. And then these emotions leak out and everybody's like, well, what is their problem? I thought they were okay with this.

And I, I always say what you resist persists. And if you are not addressing, noticing and addressing those emotions for yourself, you're exactly right. They're going to come out somewhere else. I often say it's like trying to hold a beach ball underwater. You can only do that so long until you lift your arm up and the ball comes and splashes you in the face. So it's really important to attune to those things, process them and really take stock of what are these emotions trying.

To tell me and point me towards yes and melody. I really love that example because I know, I know there's somebody out here listening and saying a beach ball underwater. Yeah, it'd be annoying, but I could do it. Cool. All right. How long can you do it? Let's say you're an NFL player, a bodybuilder, whatever. Yeah, you're strong enough to handle it, how long can you do it? Right. You're going to have to get out of the pool sometime, you know, so, okay, congrats. You lasted three days and it was horrible. And you still ultimately failed. The emotion came out right. I think that's such a brilliant example because it seems like such a simple task, because you say to yourself, this is what I think I should, should do. And I don't want people to feel as though I'm a stick in the mud, or they feel as though they don't like me or they don't care that I don't care about them or whatever it happens to be. I don't want them to perceive that negativity about me. So I'm just going to eat it. I'm going to eat this emotion for the sake of everybody around me. So I'm going to take care of their emotions, cater to their sensitivities, and leave mine alone. And you say, but I can do that then every day, day after day, and eventually it's going to break. And that's, I'm assuming, what helps to contribute to burnout, to where you're at a point where no matter what simple task happens to be, you cannot even bring yourself to do it because you've been holding on to so much resentment, heartache, and challenge for this entire time and not really have an opportunity to do anything constructive about it.

Absolutely. Or for many sensitive shrivers, it's what contributes to, in difficult conversations, having sort of an outsized emotional reaction. And then people saying, well, why are you being so sensitive about this? Right. It becomes this. It becomes this vicious cycle that happens.

Yep. Man, this is good. Have you ever thought about writing a book about this?

I have. You know, people ask me for a long time, how do I get over this stuff? And So I took 10 years of coaching methods and practices and put it into a book called Trust Yourself.

Fantastic Melody. We really, really appreciate it, everybody. Make sure to check out that book link in the description below. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge with us. Really appreciate it.

It was so much fun. Thank you for having me.

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