It's All About Confidence! With Selena Rezvani

Hello, my friends, and welcome to another exciting episode of Negotiate Anything. This show is produced by the American Negotiation Institute, and with over 5 million downloads and listeners in over 180 countries, listeners just like you have made this the number one negotiation podcast in the world. Hi, my name is Kwame Christian, and I am the founder and CEO of the American Negotiation Institute. Here at AI, we believe that the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. And we are passionate about providing you with the best content that will help you to make your difficult conversations easier, both at work and at home. Lastly, I want to remind you that we offer consulting and conduct trainings, both virtually and in person all around the world. Our focus is in three main areas. First, negotiation and conflict resolution. Second, leadership. And lastly, diversity, equity and inclusion. Check the link in the description below to learn more about how we could work with you and your team. And now, without further ado, let's jump into the interview. Selena, welcome back to the show, my friend.

Thank you, Kwame. It's so good to be back here. And thank you for all that you share with all of us.

Oh, it's my pleasure. And how about you get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do?

Sure. So my name is Selena Rezvani, and really it's my mission to help women and underrepresented groups carve their own paths to leadership. And so I helped them negotiate those paths on their own terms. And I'm very fortunate to speak to groups all around the world, from the World bank to Under Armour to Silicon Valley. And so during the pandemic, I started this newsletter, all about building confidence. And I'm so excited because today it's a book and it's called Quick Confidence and it's got 85 plus 10 to help you overcome intimidation, stop playing small, step up to that exciting opportunity, or for some people, maybe even entrepreneurship. So really excited about Quick Confidence, being out in the world and helping people lead large.

Yes, I love this. And the work that you do is so important, and it's been just an honor and a privilege to see you grow and your audience grow and the impact grow as well. And to see this book, Quick Confidence, it's so important. It is so important because a lot of times people try to look for strategies or tactics. What should I do? What should I say? The reality is, if you don't have the confidence to do what needs to be done or say what needs to be said, then you're not going to do it. So this work is really important and I think really timely.

Thank you. I really appreciate that. And I agree with you. So many people in interviews ask me about, yeah, but what about overconfidence? And I say, you know what, that's not good. And we can all agree on some of the reasons why. But just as negative is underconfidence, what you're talking about, Kwame, right. Where you don't even give your idea a chance to land, you know, and reach its audience, or you don't even get yourself to the negotiating table or click Submit on that job application. Right. Because of underconfidence. So those are really the people want to help.

This is great. I'm so excited to share this with the audience. And today with this episode, it's really clear how the book, the Focus on Confidence will apply to all of the three things that we're going to talk about today. So we're going to talk about how we can give your words more weight and authority. The tactics that you learned from media training. I'm so excited for that one. And then speaking with intimidating types, this is, I mean, each of these could be an individual episode unto itself. So let's just, let's start off with how to give your words more weight and authority.

Yeah, so let's talk about that. And there are a few ways we can do this, but I've identified a few small shifts that we can make maybe from the habits we're in with our language to kind of power up our words. Right. So people's ears open up when we're sharing our ideas. And so one of them is making this switch from tentative language, like if, if we get the approval, if we get the green light, if we get the funding. Sometimes when we put our ideas across like this, or we speak like this as a pattern, it can sound very hypothetical and frankly, like unlikely. You know, that that's going to be the outcome. And so I want to encourage people, particularly when they' a pitch or they want to show self confidence and self belief, to think about leveling that up to when. Look, when we get approval, we'll make a plan next to get an executive sponsor. It's an eventuality, not some. I hope maybe I have a sort of hypothesis, another switch we can make just like that, that can make a difference is could hood. It's a hedging word. And sometimes when we say this might be a really great idea, but the issue is we're not really committing to it. People don't know where we stand. If we said something like, well, we could do a marketing campaign. It's hard to tell how much you like that idea, how much you stand behind it. That's why I recommend that people move away from the hedging and say what they really mean. You know, it's my position. We should act on a marketing campaign and accelerate our plan, you know, and tell people your. Your recommendation. Because really, that's what you're doing. You're recommending a course of action. You know, you're not. You're not needing to hedge in a situation like that. Then one more of those switches that I like is Ken checking yourself a little bit when you're saying Ken. The reason why is there are times we need to say, ken, can we take a break right now or can we adjourn and come back? Sure. But there are other times where you're not actually asking for permission from the group or the. You know what I mean? You're making a statement. If you say something like, hey, can we all agree to interview another candidate? That's one way to do it. But I think a stronger way is to use the word let's. That little word, let's, is incredible because it inspires forward momentum, it signals self confidence, but it's also kind of a cooperative word. It's like saying, let's band together. Let's come together and do this. Instead of, hey, can we interview another candidate? It's saying what you really think, which is, let's interview another candidate so we can find a better match.

Selena, this is so good. And what I love is that it's so simple to do because these simple shifts can have a massive impact. And you're so right, because we have if versus when, could versus should, can versus let's. And for me, when you make those shifts, you sound like a leader that I want to follow. And so if you're saying, if we get this done, it's like, hey, boss, I mean, are we going to get this done? I'm here looking to you for leadership. Please tell me support. What do we do? Can we do this? I mean, yeah, can. I'm here in this meeting to get your advice on this. I'm here for your expertise. And it seems like you're deferring to me. And I think sometimes people might say, well, I want to let people know that, that there is a possibility that I might be wrong. They should know that because you're a person. And it's not your job to temper down the power of your message. It's your job to communicate clearly and Advocate for what you believe in and then trust in other people's autonomy to make the best decision for them. But I think we don't recognize how much we undermine our credibility and our persuasiveness by hedging so much.

Yes, so well said, Kwame. It's so true. And yet we can elevate in these little everyday ways. You don't have to save this for the big high stakes, important meeting or something you do once a year. You can integrate this into your everyday. I think just one other thing that's small but powerful that goes with this is we talked about taking a position, elevate some of your I words. You know, your I verbs. For example, like I recommend I proposing, you know, I, I expect, I expect some pushback when we roll out this new system. I disagree. I, I question the validity of, you know, I urge this group to think about, I advise, you know, like you said, you supervise people. You hired them for a good reason because you want their talents and their smarts and their solutions, not just for them to hedge, right? And so I think these are great ways we can showcase that wonderful idea that's going to come next. And so keep it in mind. Think about what I word you might like to use. For anyone listening to Step up your contributions.

Does your company invest in professional development training? If you believe that your team would benefit from a negotiation workshop, all you need to do is go to our website, fill out the workshop request form, and then we'll set up a time to chat. These workshops are completely customizable and we've done them all around the country. Negotiation and conflict resolution skills are beneficial across all professions, but they're especially useful in procurement, purchasing, sales, sourcing, and contract management. Our calendar is filling up quickly and we even have some workshops scheduled for next year. If you think you might want one. I'd suggest reaching out soon so you don't miss out. Check out the link in the description to learn more and we will be right back after this. This is really, really interesting because if I were to come up with a word for the first set of replacement words, we have if versus when, could versus should, can versus let's. I think the word would be certitude and people hate uncertainty. And when you can speak with conviction, it helps to provide them with a little bit of certainty, which helps them to feel safer and more likely to follow your lead. And then with this one, when we're focusing on using the word I, to me the word is ownership. We're taking ownership. It's not that this is something hypothetically a person could potentially do in this situation. What we're saying is that, no, I own this, I believe this. And that again, leans into the level of conviction you bring to the conversation too.

Yeah. And that's such a good differentiation both for people to hear and for me too, by the way, Kwame, because you just broke it down in such a, just really clear, laser focused way. But look, it's absolutely true. Amy Cuddy, the psychologist at Harvard, said, once you've got to sell it to tell it, you've got to get some conviction in there. And I think the best leaders do this. Even knowing it's not bulletproof. It doesn't need to be bulletproof before you say it. It needs to be very good, you know, thought out, feel like a strong idea in your mind and maybe you have some reasons to back that up. But I think when we strive for perfect or bulletproof or, you know, I need three more weeks and three more weeks to research it, we lose out. So like you said, know that the people around you will kind of right size that idea. They'll give you feedback and input if it can't work.

And.

But you got to give it a chance in the first place.

Absolutely. One of the things we have to make sure that we address is the fact that it's an easy fix. I'm using air quotes aggressively here. It is an easy fix in terms of, hey, these are simple semantic shifts. But it's going to be difficult because we're going to have to reprogram our brain because we have a lot of bad conversational habits. That transition is going to take some time, but it's going to take a lot of self awareness and willingness, willingness to make those adjustments in the moment. And I think about times where I was, for instance, in college trying to eliminate the word like as a filler word. It can feel awkward at first, but it pays dividends down the road.

Yeah, you're so right. And you know, from negotiating too, I can relate to that urge to fill in the silence after you make a request. You know, it can be so strong and yet, like you said, it feels awkward when you stop doing that. And yet that's where so much of your power is, is letting it land in this clean, clear way. So I'm right there with you and I'm all for experimentation, practice in low stakes ways in your life with your family and friends, with the shop owner, you know, at a restaurant. It doesn't need to be like right into that really high stakes meeting.

Agreed, Agreed. And I think this is a great opportunity for us to transition into the tactics that you learned from media training. Can you set the stage there for us?

Yes. So at my last corporate job before being an entrepreneur, I was very lucky to be sent to media training. And I went to it, learned some really cool things, and I thought that these are so applicable to all kinds of experiences. Job interviews. How about when you're asked a question in a big meeting with lots of visibility and you don't know the answer? And so I got really excited about it. So some of those tips include this idea that you do not need to answer the exact question you are asked, but you can answer the question you wish you were asked. My goal in sharing this is not to try to make people into a politician or say, go ahead and dodge the question. But the real situation here is there are times you are asked a question where that's not the most meaningful issue. Let's say we're in a really important all hands meeting at our organization and you are not expecting it, but somebody says, selena, give us an update on the color green. And I'm not ready to give that update. I don't actually have a lot of insight right now into the color green. I might say something like, you know what, the color green's important. But what we're really hearing about right now is the color red. That's what clients are asking us about. And let me give you an update on that. So you're not ignoring it. You're validating and acknowledging their question, but you're redirecting it. And just know in any conversation, you can steer a conversation in the direction that works for you. Maybe the person's asking you something that's not meaningful and you have something meaningful to say. Maybe they're asking you something that I don't know is a little bit rude or a dig and you don't want to go there. So you're pivoting it to a place that's comfortable and meets your boundaries. And so realize just because you're asked that question doesn't mean you have to answer that exact one. And that is liberating once you absorb that and acknowledge it.

Yes, that's powerful. Because again, like you said at the beginning, we're not turning into politicians. We're not trying to just dodge questions to the detriment of other people. We just recognize that sometimes questions might not be as relevant as it needs to be for the conversation. It might be damaging if you answer it directly. And I really appreciate the fact that you gave the example of questions that could be insulting or statements that could be insulting that people want responses to. In those situations, you're doing yourself and them a favor because you don't want to have to go down that negative rabbit hole. And then sometimes if you have to hold somebody accountable in those conversations right there, it could really have a detrimental impact on the flow of the conversation, too. So instead of giving them the spanking they deserve in that moment, you're giving them a little bit of grace. It's like I'm allowing you to save face in this moment, and we're going to pivot into something that's relevant. And it's such a simple approach. I think, again, that's what I'm appreciating the most about this simplicity, because it's incredibly powerful, but easy put into practice once we start to develop these habits.

Yeah. And I think you feel a little less captive to their question or being asked something, you don't know, uncomfortable that somehow feels out of bounds for you. It gives you a lot of freedom back when you realize, wait, I can maneuver here. So a few other ones are. One kind of big law in media training is never repeat a negative premise. So if somebody says to you, I don't know, let's say you're interviewing for a job and your current company you're leaving is in trouble, maybe they may ask you something like, how do you view the, I don't know, scandal at your organization or the demise of leadership or something that you may not want to necessarily go down that path. Or maybe you're asked it on a conference panel about some really, you know, big news that's just come out in your industry. And you're. You're asked, what do you think about, you know, the. The collapse of your competitor, Something like that. And maybe you don't want to go there. Right. I would say something like, well, here's how I actually view that situation. You're not repeating their negative frame about the collapse or the leadership or the scandal. You're not even using those words. You're saying, here's how I actually view that situation. That's important because sometimes when we say a thing back, when we say the exact negative premise and we're on that conference panel, we can be quoted as saying those negative words. Don't even go there. Create some distance from yourself and that situation by saying, here's how I see that situation. And you can make a quick, concise statement and potentially redirect you can say, I don't agree with that stance. Here's what I actually think. But be careful about repeating something you wouldn't want on a, on a front page paper with your name, you know, associated with it. And that kind of has two Kwame kind of rolled into one, which is don't speak for other people. You know, that could be a dangerous place to be. So, you know, again, if somebody is saying, wow, you must be, you know, really upset with the defect in your product, you might say something like, if that's not your area, I'm going to let the product managers speak for themselves on that. You know that, that you do not need to be the leading expert in the world on every topic, right? It's okay to say to defer to somebody who can speak to that. So I'm a big believer in don't speak for others. And I think the last one is maybe the most important from media training, which is know your North Star. What is that one message that if all your airtime got cut off in the meeting on that conference panel, maybe on a TV or podcast interview, everything got cut away but this, and you only have 25 seconds. What is that message you want to get across? It's really important to know that because you can keep guiding the conversation back to that message or that premise. And sometimes we forget to come up with this. We do all our research and our homework, but we haven't even come up with the very short 30 second commercial for why this is meaningful. So know what your North Star is. What is that point you really want to get across? What is that key message you want to keep impressing? And make sure you say it once or maybe more than once if you can.

Selena, this is gold. I love this because I these last three, those are new to me. So never repeating a negative press premise, not speaking for other people, and then knowing your North Star, this is helpful for me and I know it's going to be helpful for a lot of the listeners as well, because we can think about never repeating a negative premise. From the perspective of media training, it's pretty clear there. But then when we think about this just in terms of any type of audience, we don't want to repeat these types of premises that might make us look bad in the moment. And it just causes more people to dwell on the thing that you want, you don't want them to dwell on during the interaction. So you get off of that topic as quickly as possible and you're addressing it. You might be even addressing the exact Same topic, but just addressing it in a more powerful, positive, type of, empowering type of way. And that completely changes the entire dynamic in the organization of the conversation. So I think this is great. And then obviously, for me, as a podcaster and a professor and a lawyer, I can talk sometimes way too much. So being able to get the point across in a sound bite type of manner, I think that's really helpful for everybody because, again, people's attention spans are dropping, and so we have to make sure that we can get these main points across and in a short period of time in a way that it's easily digestible.

Absolutely. It's. It's a really empowering skill. Once you realize, oh, okay, I can adapt and maneuver. I can kind of have a mix of tools at my disposal when a question like this lands in my lap.

Yeah. Oh, this is great. And with the time we have left, I want to talk about how you have of difficult conversations with intimidating types. Can you kind of set the stage there? And actually, let's just set the stage by talking about how you would define intimidating types.

Yeah. So I think an intimidating person can be any title or level. I don't think it necessarily has to be a certain hierarchy, but I think they tend to be big wigs in our eyes. They tend to be VIPs or carry themselves with a lot of assurance. Sometimes, not all the time. Sometimes intimidating people put up a perceived wall that says, don't come too close. Sometimes it's them, sometimes it's some of us too. It might be shaking our own insecurity a little bit, or maybe we have trouble reading that person. So it. It throws us a bit. But I think it depends who it is in your life. For me, with my clients, and one of the things I go deep on on this topic in my book, Quick Confidence about is with executives and higher ups, because that's the one I hear from people the most, is that, like, I feel intimidated talking to executives, feel like I'm supposed to be really fast and really efficient and confident. And it's. It's a lot. And I can understand that. So one of my first pieces of advice is to interact with the person, not the power. Getting ready to meet the SVP of sales and marketing at a Fortune 500 company, that's a lot more intimidating than meeting Jillian, who works in marketing, you know, and it's taken me a lot of years to learn this, but I think focusing on that title, on that big logo in your head of their impressive company, whatever it may be, kind of reinforces this person is above me and it can damage your confidence. So instead of doing that, bring yourself back to the living, breathing person in front of you. Be curious about them. You know, build rapport with that person. Ask them how their weekend was. You're probably going to find out they are human like you and me. Maybe they took their kids to one of 95 sports this weekend, right? And it's going to shrink that scary aura a little bit and make them human again. So I think that's an important mindset shift. I think another one that can be helpful is don't let them dominate. Sometimes intimidating people might be used to dominating. And a lot of times people will just kind of make a space and shrink themselves to a degree. And so hold your own, be prepared and be confident, just like you would for any meaningful conversation that matters. But have your talking points ready, hear something they said and build off that point and give them a reaction. Don't just kind of let that intimidating character dominate and take over the exchange. There's one other thing I think that has helped me. I can still think back to a networking event with leaders where I just. I really struggled to feel, to feel in that moment that I belonged. And one of the things that helped me was instead of kind of shrinking down, which I felt my body doing, like I was kind of making furtive, weird eye contact, you know, because I was uncomfortable and I just didn't feel at home there kind of drooping my shoulders is to do the opposite. To stand with your feet shoulder width apart, to hold your head tall, to kind of straighten your shoulders and your back and claim your space because you earned your place there as much as anyone else, including that intimidating character, whether it's a meeting, an event. So watch that urge to kind of go small and to low talk and to avoid eye contact and speak at a 7 out of 10 volume that's clear and audible, you know, kind of rebel against that part of you that's saying, oh, you know, I better not be too conspicuous. No. Celebrate what your mama gave you and big up, big up. It's going to help people stop overlooking you, but you to not discount yourself.

Yes. And Selena, this all ties back to the topic of your book, Quick Confidence. Right? Because one of the things that I really loved about your message about how to deal with intimidating types is the fact that it has to start with ourselves. You have to believe that you're worthy. You have to recognize that they are not above you, they are not better than you in any type of Way just recognizing their humanity and. And acknowledging the shared humanity in the interaction, but then also just recognizing that the way that we carry ourselves will matter as well. And it's not just about how we interact with the world, but also about how the world interacts with us. And a lot of times the world will follow our lead. And so if we look defeated, then the world will defeat you. And just by standing tall with your shoulders back and taking up more space, you're signaling to the people around you that you are somebody that is meant to be respected in this interaction. But if you look like somebody that someone else can take advantage of that, it almost emboldens them to operate in that type of dominating type of way. Because when you think about the three tips that you gave, it's only one, that focused on what you do directly to them, where we don't let them dominate the interaction. The other two, interacting with the person, not the title, and then also with your body language. Do the opposite of what it is that your body wants to do. Take up more space versus shrinking down. Those all have to do with yourself. And I think that's what's the most empowering thing about all of this.

Yes. Beautifully captured. It's true. First you see yourself as powerful, then other people follow suit. And so it's wonderful what can happen when you make these little investments in your confidence. You're going to really improve your social confidence, but also your willingness to take some bigger swings in your career, which is really exciting.

Yes. Oh, this is great. This is great. So, Selena, last question. So let's say I'm not feeling confident, but I need to some quick confidence. What should I do? Or let me make it really clear, what should I buy?

I love it. Well, it's the first stop has to be buying quick confidence that is going to help you. And seriously though, it was born out of this viral newsletter that has has helped so many people and become a community. And I'm really confident it can help all of you too. So realize no matter what your starting point, you can get better at this. But it sure helps to bring that growth mindset that I can only get better if I practice, if I experiment, if I expose myself to new things. So may we all be so fierce.

I love it. Selena. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming back on the show. Really appreciate it. Listeners, we are going to link everything in the description, so make sure you check that out. Congratulations. You've just joined an elite club by listening to a full episode. You're now officially on the Negotiate Anything team. So welcome aboard. What most team members do is they subscribe to the podcast because that allows them to automatically get the latest episodes of the show. The best things in life lie on the other side of difficult conversations. Keep learning, keep practicing, and keep getting better. Your relationships will improve, your career will soar, and you'll have the confidence you need to get the most out of these crucial conversations. Again, thank you for joining the team. We're excited to have you. You and I will see you in the next episode. I'll catch you later.