Kwame Christian: "Every interaction is a deposit in the relationship bank account" - Strategies for Building Stronger Relationships

Hey, everyone. Now that we're part of the LinkedIn Podcast Network, we're going to do more LinkedIn Live events that will show up on the Negotiate Anything podcast. So what this means is that you have the opportunity to actually be part of some of these episodes. So if you haven't done it yet, make sure you follow me on LinkedIn so you can stay up to date on when these events are happening. And now, without further ado, let's jump into this LinkedIn live. Hello, everybody. Welcome to another exciting episode of Negotiate Anything Live. Here we are on LinkedIn live, so it's good to see everybody. And so for those of you listening on the Negotiate Anything podcast, what's up? Good to see you. If you want to join the conversation, just follow me on LinkedIn. We're going to put a link to the description here in this. In this episode, and so you could join the next live too, so we could actually interact and engage and everything like that. So this is one of the benefits of the. The exciting deal with LinkedIn. We've got some announcements coming up on that in the next couple of days, but I'll be doing a lot more lives, a lot more lives, which is very exciting. So I would love it if you all who are listening could join the conversation. And we'll probably put a link to the LinkedIn live as well in the description of the episode, so you could join the conversation even after the fact, because the comments will still be available. Cool. I'm seeing people come through. Angela, Loretta. What's up? Amma from Missouri. Detroit. Indianapolis, Oregon. Nice. Salt Lake City. What's up, Michelle? Good to see you.

Let's get to it.

So we're going to talk about trust, and let's talk about first, the format. So what we're going to do first is I'm going to start off with one point, just one single point about the topic, and then I'm going to play off of the questions and the comments that come from the audience. So Simone's going to be our producer behind the scenes. And, um, he's the reason why Negotiate Anything is a good podcast, because he cuts out all of the things that I say that aren't good, and he makes me sound smarter than I am. So shout out to Simone. So he's going to be highlighting some of the questions and comments that go through. So this is going to be more of an interactive type of engagement. It's not just a Kwame keynote disguised as a. As a LinkedIn Live.

All right, Doug.

Hey, everybody. Also Check out Doug's podcast episode from Germany. Great episode, Great episode. Cool. All right, peeps, let's roll into it. So let me start off with a question. Let's start off with a question. Oh, first of all, Nicoline, bud. So let me know if I pronounce that right. First of all, love the comment. Listen to me every morning. That is amazing. That is a fact. That still shocks my wife.

She's like, why do people listen to you all the time? That's good. So thank you.

Thank you.

That's very validating. I appreciate that. So, all right, peeps, so check this out.

When you think about trust, how would you define trust? Let's just build a definition here in, in the comments. I want to see what y' all come up with.

So let's go, let's.

Let's check out the comments here. What is trust? How would you define trust? Okay, so I'll give you some time. I know there's about a 30 second lag. So as you're typing this into the comments, I think before we get into how to build trust and things like that and utilize trust in our relationships, we have to get a good idea of what trust actually is, you know, so perfect. Respect. Good. Yeah. It is hard to build trust with somebody if you don't have respect for them. Right. Or they don't feel respected by you. That should be another LinkedIn Live talking about what respect is. We're talking about trust. Let's talk about respect next. So, yes, you, that's important. And remember, respect is about perspective too, because you might think you're being respectful to somebody, but they might still feel as though you are being respectful, disrespectful to them. So we have to figure out what respect means to them in order to effectively respect them. So that's great. Good. So we have commitment, George. That's big. That's really big. Because trust takes time. Trust takes time. And I remember in one of my keynotes, somebody came up after me after the keynote and came up to me and dropped this gem. He said, trust is gained in drips, but lost in buckets. So it's gained in drips and lost in buckets. So over time, just through repeated interactions, it's like dropping a little bit of water into that relationship bucket. But if you make one mistake, if the mistake is big enough, you just dump that whole bucket out. Right? So yes, you have to have commitment. Nicholeen says mutual respect and honest communication, that's big. Hard to be trusted if people don't think you're honest. And again, honesty is about perspective too. Yes, it's about objective fact and reality, but it's also about your perspective on what objective facts and reality is. Right. So that's important. Good. Michelle, Mutual relationship time value and integrity to your relationship. Understanding a good conversation, good communication, having confidence in someone. Yes. And I think thinking about it from the lens of confidence is really interesting too, because really all confidence is in yourself, is trusting yourself, trusting yourself that you can do what needs to be done. Right. And so if you are having confidence in somebody else, you're confident that they're going to deliver on what they say they're going to do. Trust equals the ability to be vulnerable and honest. Transparency, believing without doubt. This is good. A feeling of being comfortable enough to be vulnerable. Yes. So let's focus on this one. I like this. Trust is a feeling, right? So think about this. If we were to put the face of somebody that you know up on the screen right now, how long would it take you to determine whether or not you trust that person? Think about it. Just, that's all you see, just their face. How long will it take you to know whether or not you trust the person? You don't need to do some kind of lengthy analysis or anything like that. It happens in an instant, you know immediately whether or not you trust somebody. So this is the way I think about trust. Trust is nothing more than a positive bias. Trust is a positive bias. So think about it. So somebody said trust is believing without doubt, right? So that means I don't need to know the whole information, all of the facts or anything like that. I trust this person. That's all I need. So when we think about trust, when we think about it through the lens of bias, it makes it a lot easier to understand. Trust is a feeling of positivity towards somebody else. It's just a positive bias. And so the, when we, when we're having our relationships with people, we have to recognize that every single interaction that we have is an opportunity to put in a deposit in the relationship bank account. Every time you talk to somebody, every time you have a regular conversation, every time you have a difficult conversation, I want you to think about it as an opportunity to make a deposit into the relationship bank account. Because at some point there's going to be a difficult conversation, there's going to be a conflict, there's going to be a misunderstanding, you might make a mistake. And the more deposits you've put into the relationship bank account, the more withdrawals you can make from the relationship Right. But if you haven't taken the time to invest regularly into the relationship, then what's going to happen is it doesn't take much for you to overdraft in that relationship bank account. So what I want you to do is I want you to think about how you can inject more and more positivity and positive interactions with the person who's in front of you. Just keep on investing in these relationships, and that's how you get trust. But again, trust takes time. It's very difficult to accelerate that process. And if somebody feels as though you are being really tactical in the way that you're interacting, and they feel as though you're. You're more self interested, interested in yourself and getting things for yourself than you are in helping them, then even though you might be doing the right thing, you might not get credit because they don't feel safe with you. Right. So this is really important. Okay, good. I'm seeing a lot of safety, too. Yes, safety is a really important feeling. You know we've talked about psychological safety. Right. This is good. Shout out to Joan. She was another great podcast guest, and also Michelle as well. So, yes, feeling safe is really important. As we're having these relationships with, with people, making sure that they feel safe is really important. Now we're not thinking about safety in the physical sense. I mean, I hope you, I hope you can make people feel safe physically. You might need a different LinkedIn Live, if that's the concern. But when we talk, when we're talking about psychological safety and feeling safe within a relationship, it means that you feel comfortable being yourself, being authentically you, and being transparent and vulnerable with the person in the conversation. I feel safe sharing who I am. I. I feel safe sharing how I feel, and I feel safe sharing what I think. And so that seems like it's a really good thing to move toward. Right. But what makes it so tough to make people feel safe? What do you think? So again, I'll give you all some opportunity to come up with something. But what are the things that can make people feel safe? Or what are some things that we could do that accidentally make people feel unsafe? Building trust requires consistent dependability. Ooh, Natalie, that's good. Consistent dependability. Yes, absolutely. So we have consistency. So that means over time, again, trust takes time. We're going to keep on going and doing the right thing and showing up positively. But you're somebody that the person can rely on. Right. So think about going back to the concept of psychological safety. So if I'm having An interaction with you. And, and I accept what you're saying. I listen empathetically and respectfully. And I do that once, twice, three times. But then on the fourth time, I judge you very harshly for what it is that you believe. That is a withdrawal from the relationship bank account that makes the person feel unsafe. That makes the person say to themselves, you know what? Last time I showed Kwame what I really felt, I was vulnerable. And that hurt, that led to pain. So I'm not going to. I don't feel safe, Kwame anymore. I don't feel safe sharing things with him anymore. Right. It's really important. Good.

I've got a quick story for you.

So I was at this keynote and.

I talked to a listener and he said, kwame, I love the podcast, but my favorite part, man, I love those commercials.

And I said, I don't think this is a true story.

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This ads for you and for the rest of you. I'll see you in Premium. So let's get to these answers. I like this. So confidentiality. That's a big one. You can ruin your relationship with people if you're, if you don't honor the confidentiality. If they are open and vulnerable and share things with you and you let other people know, then they know you're not. It's not safe to share. Right? A lack of empathy. So let's talk about what empathy is. So we have. Empathy is the, the ability to understand how people see, think and feel about the situation. What is their perspective? What are their thoughts about it? What are their feelings behind it? Empathy doesn't mean agreement. Empathy just means understanding. But if we lack empathy, it means that we lack the respect necessary to even care to understand what the person's saying. And when you lack that empathy, it makes it really, really difficult to trust somebody. Because again, empathy is just about understanding. Think about the people that you trust in your life. Think about them. Do they understand you?

It's, it's hard to trust somebody if.

You don't feel like they understand you. Right? So a lack of empathy will crush your ability to build trust. A lack of honesty, too. Your environment and beliefs, that's big, too. Right. Where you are. Let's just think about a work culture. For example, you maybe if you take these two individuals and take them out of that culture and they interact, maybe they're neighbors, maybe they're friends or something like that, they're in the same social clubs, maybe they can have a trusting relationship, but maybe they work in a workplace that is so toxic that it makes it tough to trust anybody. Right. So the environment will have an impact on the level of trust that you have. Right. You have your own reputation. If you have a good reputation, that'll lead to more trust. But if you work for an op, an organization that does not have a good reputation, even though you might be a good person, other people will struggle to trust you because of your association with something that's bad. Right. Shared interests and values. That's big, B.J. so the more you can share what you. The things that you care about and the things that are important to you and your values, and you recognize the consistency that makes you trust the person more. It. Let's think about it in terms of the affinity bias, because again, trust is a positive bias. The affinity bias essentially states, you are like me, so I like you. You are like me, so I like you. So if I look at you and we have the same interests and we have the same values, we have the same beliefs, then I'm going to trust you more because you think like me. Right. And so we're seeing how all of this feeds into the flywheel of trust. So you can start by empathizing with somebody, understanding them, listening without judgment. Then you find things that are in common. Then you talk about those things that you have in common more often to trigger more of that affinity bias. Oh, we're more familiar. We're more similar than we thought. I trust you more. Right. And all of this feeds into it. This is great. Ooh. Being rejected. Being rejected. That is something that can lead to a lack of trust. Very, very quickly. Now, you might be saying, well, Kwame, I mean, you always say not all deals are meant to be made. You always say it's important to set boundaries. Yeah. There's a difference between setting healthy boundaries and rejecting the person. So we have to be really, really careful and clear about how we're setting the boundaries and how we reject offers. We need to make it clear that we are saying no to the substance while still saying yes to the person, no to the substance. Yes. To the person. Unless the person's substance is so abhorrent that you cannot align with the person. So if you're dealing with evil, I'm not saying you need to empathize with evil or be friends with evil. Right. But what I'm saying, though, is in a different. Converse in. In difficult conversations and in negotiations, it's your responsibility to protect yourself by setting boundaries, by making it clear what you can and cannot do. But we need to be very, very careful in the way that we approach it to make sure that the person doesn't feel like it's a personal rejection, a rejection of who they are as an individual versus a rejection of the substance of the offer. Great book recommendation on how to say no while actually still building the relationship. And building trust is a po. The Power of a Positive no by William Urie. Great book, Great book. And if anybody knows Yuri, let him know I want him to come on the podcast. I'm gonna. I'm gonna make that one happen. So he has this approach that's really, really helpful when it comes to how to say no. It's a yes, no, yes format. So the first yes is to the reason why you're saying no. I'll explain that in a little bit. So then you do a very short, succinct no, and then you say yes to the person and the relationship. Let's do a very simple example. So I have two kids. I'm married. So my weekends are very filled with. Are filled with family events, right? So sometimes my friends would say, hey, Kwame, can you hang out? Can you do this? So what I'm going to do is I'm going to start off by saying yes to what I've already committed to the. Which is the reason why I'm saying no. So if somebody says, hey, Kwame, can you hang out on Saturday? I say, hey, actually, on Saturday, I already plan to spend time with Kai and Dominic. We're going to go to the gym. So unfortunately, then we get to the no. So, unfortunately, I can't hang out on Saturday. Now I get back to the yes, which is the yes to the continuation of the negotiation or conversation and to the relationship. But let's look for another time where we can get together, because I still care about you and I still want to hang out. I just can't hang out at that time. So that clearly says yes to the person and the relationship while still clearly saying no to the substantive offer. So that's really good. Rejection is something that can really diminish the level of trust. But we need to make sure that we are rejecting offers, not rejecting people. Right. Great points, great points. Cool. So, yes. So we're at 18 minutes now. I want to give you all an opportunity to ask questions because I know we have. We've got a lot of people in this chat. I love this. Annette, what's up? Good to see you. Good to see you. So, yeah, what questions do you have about trust? Whitney's in the house. My goodness, my wife must love me. Who was it? Nicolette. Nicolette. Tell. Tell Whitney that you listen to the podcast. So great. Good. Annette, you have a really great point here too. The fear of how we are perceived and feeling judged, not supported, unable to be who you are. So you code switch. So let's. You do a little glossary here. So code switching is changing who you are and changing the way you show up in order to match the environment that you're in. And this can be done in a positive way or a negative way. So let's give an example. So let's say you have a two year old. I have a two year old. I have a seven year old. I speak very differently to my two year old and my seven year old when compared to how I talk to my boys from college. Right. When I'm talking to my friends. With college from college, we might use some very different language, some adult language. Now, am I being inauthentic? No. I'm very authentic with my kids. I'm very authentic with my friends. But it's just a different version of myself. But it is still a version of myself. It's still who I am. Now, if you work in an environment where you don't feel safe being who you are, and you feel as though you'll be rejected by being your authentic self, then you edit yourself in ways that can hurt. Because you're saying, I can't be me, I have to be somebody else. That's when it becomes problematic. And again, we all have professional versions of ourselves. So I'm not saying that you don't change in order to match the professional setting. I'm saying that you should not feel forced to change in a way that is inauthentic. And if you feel forced to change in a way that is inauthentic, then it really makes it essentially impossible to form a true connection with somebody else because they might be being themselves, but you're not being yourself because you had to make that unnecessary compromise. So being in a toxic work environment that makes people feel as though they cannot show up as themselves. Of course, it creates mental health problems, leads to a lack of engagement and all of those things. But sticking to the point of this LinkedIn Live, it will also lead to a diminution of trust between the people within the organization, because people can't feel. Don't feel as though they can show up as themselves. So I'm. I'm glad you brought that one up. All right, Paulette. How to trust when people are untrustworthy have been proven. Okay, glad you said that. So here's the thing. It's nice to trust people, but we have to recognize that there's a dark side of trust. So a positive bias. So a positive bias gives you the benefit of the doubt. So what's the benefit of the benefit of the doubt? Right. So if I'm having a conversation with somebody and they trust me, then I don't need to bring as much additional information to the table in order for the person to believe what I'm saying. At the end of the day, they say, this is Kwame. I trust him. I believe him. You don't need to bring. You don't need to bring all of this data, Kwame. I trust that you did the research, and I trust that it's legit. Now, Paulette, to your question, how do I trust somebody that has proven themselves to be untrustworthy? I think the best strategy in that situation is to not trust that person. So we have to be very, very, very stingy with who we decide to trust. Right. We have to make sure that we are giving our trust to people who are actually trustworthy. Because if you', not, then you're probably setting yourself up to be taken advantage of again. Right. And so actually, when you're having negotiations or difficult conversations with somebody that you really, really, really like, that's when you have to be aware of that dark side of trust. It's not just that people might manipulate you. It's that people, you. You might give too much deference and persuasive value to what people are saying, and you might negotiate against yourself by making inappropriate adjustments just because you like somebody. So I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing if you don't trust somebody, especially if they are not trustworthy. So that's good. Good, good. Good question. Cool. What are the steps to rebuild trust after it's been lost? Simone.

Awesome. I'm glad you shouted that out.

So let's shout out Kim Elsbok. Simone, if you could find that link to that episode with Kim and put it in the chat. That'd be great. So this is an episode of the PO Podcast, is probably about three years old now, but it's really great. So Kim Elsbach studies how she studies trust, but she is the one of the few people that really honed in on what to do when trust is lost. Here's what I found after interviewing her. This is going to blow your mind. It's really hard to get trust back once you've lost it.

Okay, so the strategy of rebuilding trust is essentially don't lose it in the.

First place, but let's say we do what, what happens? So there are different types of trust violations. So we have a trust violation due to a mistake or ignorance. It is 124. Whitney Christian, if you're still here, happy birth time. This is something I've been doing for the last 13 years of marriage with Whitney. Her birthday is January 24th, so I always send her happy birth time messages. But since she's here, no need to text. Happy birth time, Whitney. So one of the things that you. If you make a mistake and have a trust violation due to an error due to just making a mistake or ignorance, then what you need to do is you need to let the person know very clearly and transparently what happened and why apologize and commit to doing better, right? And recognize that if it's due to ignorance or a mistake, I'm going to practice more, I'm going to study more, I'm going to educate myself in order to make sure that I don't make this mistake. Now, if the trust violation is due to an ethical violation, a violation of morality, you did something that the person finds to be morally wrong, that's really hard to do. It's harder. It's not impossible to recover. It's just very hard to recover. And it takes a lot of time and it takes a lot of commitment to get back to that. So you're going to have to make an incredible amount of deposits into the relationship bank account in order to regain somebody's trust after a moral violation. The. The way that I remember it is that you can fix dumb, but you can't fix evil. If I'm dumb or ignorant, I can learn and get better. But if I'm evil, it makes it really hard for people to, to. To say, you know what? I can trust that person again. So moral violations are harder to recover from. And so again, let's just go back to the basic fundamental premise of this whole thing when it comes to the way that I describe trust. Trust is a positive Bias. It's going to come about from repeated positive interactions with somebody. And if you recognize that you lost somebody's trust, just know it's going to take a long time to build it back. But it's like my, my favorite Chinese proverb, the best time to plant a seed is 20 years ago. The second best time to plant a seed is today. So once you recognize that you lost somebody's trust, you need to start working right now to get it back. Let them know that you recognize that you lost their trust and you see why you lost their trust and you apologize. And then you let them know that you're committed to rebuilding the relationship and you're willing to put in the time. So. Great question. Cool.

What else do we have?

I'm excited to hear your insights and advice on building trust, especially in new relationships. Yeah. So I think one of the things that I've recognized is that there's power in vulnerability. So vulnerability is the willingness to be transparent and share about who you are, what you feel, what you're thinking, and those type of things. It's important to recognize that vulnerability isn't just, you know, word vomit, saying everything that's on your mind.

No, that's not what it is.

That's not what it is. That's just inappropriate self disclosure. But vulnerability is sharing what's on your heart and mind, what you think and feel, those type of things. And what I found is that one of the best ways to build trust in the early stages of a relationship is through reciprocal vulnerability. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to share a little bit about myself and I'm going to see if the person reciprocates. So the person might be a little bit hesitant. Maybe they've been burned in the past, they don't feel comfortable for whatever reason, they're slow to warm, whatever it happens to be. So what I'm going to say is I'm going to share a little bit about myself and then I'm going to pause and see how they respond and, and then I would hope that they share a little bit about themselves. Then I'm going to reciprocate by sharing a little bit more and then they share a little bit more. But I have to recognize that a lot of times in these relationships it has to be me taking the first step to be vulnerable. And that almost gives them the license to be vulnerable. So I think the best way you can start building trust in a new relationship is take the first step and be vulnerable. Awesome. Question levels of trust. Ooh, Doug, listen, man, I see what you're doing. I see you're setting up your second episode of negotiations. Appreciate anything. I see that. And I'm down for it. I'm here for it.

Okay.

Levels of trust, I think. I think for me, I can't speak for anybody else. I'll just speak at it. From my level, I give somebody a little bit of trust. It's almost like how you start a bank account. They're like, you start your bank account, you have $5 in it. It's like, wow, what I do to earn this? Nothing. So I'll give them a little bit. Right. I will assume the best of intentions. So in my first book, Finding Confidence, Finding Confidence in Conflict, I talked about the benefit of the benefit of the doubt. I'm going to give somebody the benefit, benefit of the doubt, unless they've given me clear reasons why I shouldn't. Because they can feel that the conversation feels a little bit easier. And then we can have a better conversation and we can get a little bit further down the road in the relationship. But then when I think about the next levels of trust, this means that I'm willing to share a little bit more vulnerable information that I might not want to get out publicly. Publicly. Or I can recognize it might put me in a somewhat compromising position. Okay. I feel a little bit more comfortable doing that now. If I'm going to the next level of trust, this is a situation where I know my well being is in the hands of somebody else. Where I know that in order to be successful, I to some degree need this person to. To really have my back. And so that is a deeper level of trust. So I think we have to recognize that there are levels and it will grow over time. And I think sometimes, especially when we're just going through our whole portfolio of relationships, it's important to evaluate the level of trust that we're dealing with here. How much do I trust this person, especially when they're asking me to do something, Especially when they're making some kind of request or trying to take the relationship to the next level. I need to ask whether or not that's in my best interest, depending on where I am in the trust equation. Right. So this is good. So, yeah, good question, Doug. Good question. We're gonna have to talk about that one a little bit more. Annette, how do you build trust at work when there is resistance to building, to. To build working relationships? I don't need to make friends, but I have to trust people to get work done. Yeah, I think that's honestly just saying that goes a long way. Right. Just say, hey, we are on the same team. We're working to the same. Toward the same interest. You remember earlier in this LinkedIn Live when somebod shared interest and shared values. So what I'm going to do to get a little bit more positive momentum in the relationship is I'm going to ask questions to figure out what those values are that they have. I'm going to ask questions to figure out what those interests are. What do they want to accomplish? What do they. What is their highest aspiration? What are their fears? What do they want to avoid? And then what I'm going to do is I'm going to focus on those things where we agree. Yeah, I'm with you. I want that, too. Yeah, that's my hope for this project, too. Great. Well, what can we do to make sure that we can get there? What can I do to be a better colleague to you? And so, again, this is kind of like reciprocal vulnerability. I'm going to take that first step to gather information, learn about what they're saying, and then I'm going to point out those times, those. Those places where we agree and where we have a lot of overlap and synergy, and I'm going to highlight those, and then I'm going to offer, hey, what can I do to make your life better? And I think it's easier to build trust, and it's more believable when there's nothing on the line. You need to start building trust now, because a lot of times what ends up happening is you say, oh, man, I haven't talked to this person in four months, but now I need something, so I need to talk to him. Right?

We think about it.

We all have those people where if we get a text message from them or a call, we're like, oh, okay, what does this person need? They don't care about me. They just care about themselves. And so when there is nothing on the line, I think that's the best opportunity to start building trust. Because people will say, wow, that Annette came to me and she didn't even ask for anything. She didn't want anything. She just did that to help me. That's interesting. Right? And so that is one of those things that can build a little bit of positive momentum in the relationship. Aha. Antonio. How to trust someone that doesn't trust in others. Okay, so check this out. First of all, Antonio, with this, I think it's important to think about the psychology of personality, too. Because let's. First of all, I guess I should do this shout out to my course leading and motivating different personalities. So this will be a little primer. Simone, can you get a link to that. To that LinkedIn course and put it in the. In the comments, too? So I like to think about the psychology of personality through the big five personality traits. The acronym is Ocean. So openness to experience, conscientiousness, extroversion, agreeableness, and neuroticism.

Did you see how I almost forgot one of them? Like, how good is your course, Kwame, if you can't remember the five personality traits? But yes, so we have openness to.

Experience, conscientiousness, extroversion, agreeableness, and neuroticism. With that last one, neuroticism. Now, in most literature, it's referred to as emotional stability, because neuroticism can sound like an insult. So what I want to focus on is agreeableness. So we have people who are agreeable. These are people who are very likable. They go with the flow. It's easy to be friends with these type of people. But then we have people who are on the other end of the spectrum that are more disagreeable. And those people who are more disagreeable are much more difficult to build relationships with. And it's much more difficult to get them to trust you. And I think Antonio, to this point for first, when it comes to building trust with somebody who doesn't trust people, generally, the first thing we need to do is change our mindset. Because when somebody doesn't trust us, it's natural for us to take that personally. You don't trust me. I'm a good person. I'm a genuinely good person. How dare you not trust me? Right. Then we take it personally. Now, if we bring that energy into the next conversation, how do they feel? They're like, I knew I shouldn't have trusted. Trusted that person. You see their attitude, right? And so the first thing we need to do is just recognize that sometimes people are slower to warm. They might not be that agreeable. And that is completely okay. So the key for me, when it comes to these difficult conversations, when I'm considering personality, I have to recognize that this isn't about me. It's not just that they don't trust me. They don't trust anybody. They don't trust anyone. Cool. So what's the solution? What's the solution? Pack a lunch. Okay. You're gonna be at it for a while. If you want to get this person to trust you, you can do it. Just recognize it's going to take more time. That's it. That's it. Cool. It's like with some people, everybody starts the relationship bank account at a deficit. It. Everybody is starting with overdraft fees.

Right.

But very few people, when it comes to a disagreeable person, very few people are willing to keep on investing in the relationship bank account because it's so difficult. So if you're that one or two, if you're one of those people who has the resilience and confidence and care enough to actually continue to invest in a relationship, even if the person's being difficult, you're going to stand out and you're going to get it. I think about difficult conversations and building trust and things like that. Kind of like how Michael Jordan talked about basketball. So one of the coolest things he ever said was, I've never lost a game of basketball. I've just run out of time. I've never lost a game. I've just run out of time. So in his mind, he's like, if you give me enough time, I'm going to win. Right. So for me, that's the way I think about it. Cool. This person's a little bit difficult. Cool. They don't trust people. That's fine. I know the equation. I know what it takes. I'm willing to get there. You give me enough time, I will persuade you. You give me enough time, I will build your trust. It's just a matter of time. So it's when it comes to negotiation in general, but relationship building and trust building, it's really more a question of whether or not you trust the process enough to continue to do the right thing long enough for good things to happen. That's really it. Yeah. So that's a really good question. Really good question. Joan says everyone's past contributes to the level of trust they bring to the relationship. Well said. Absolutely. Absolutely. A lot of times it's not about you. Right. It's not about you. And once you can depersonalize it, it probably it'll give you a little bit more resilience in the moment. Cool, man. This was fun. This is fun. This is great. Listen, peeps, I appreciate all of the engagement, I appreciate all of the questions. Before you go, just put in the comments. What is something that you'd like to hear next time? If you, if you liked this, this live, let me know. Let us know what you'd like to hear going forward because again, I'm going to announce it in in a, in a, probably about a week or so. But we're going to be signing a new deal with the LinkedIn podcast network, which is really exciting, which will allow us to do more of these lives. Let me know in the chat, let me know which comments you want to hear about. Let me know in the comments what you want to hear about going forward in future lives here on LinkedIn and we'll make it happen. So I appreciate it, everybody. Thank you for the engagement. If you're listening on the podcast, join us live next time. Follow me on LinkedIn to get there. And if you haven't given a review, leave us a five star review. If you don't want to leave a five star review, you know what? Maybe just don't leave a review. Okay?

Hashtag democracy, right? All right, peeps. I appreciate this.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'll catch you in the next one. Have a good one. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

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I'll catch you later.