Leadership Mastery in Real Estate: A Conversation with John Sebree

Hello, my friend, and welcome to another exciting episode of Negotiate Anything. Thanks for joining us today. With over 10 million downloads and listeners from more than 180 different countries, it's dedicated listeners just like you who have made Negotiate Anything the number one negotiation podcast in the world. I'm your host, Kwame Christian. I'm a business lawyer, mediator, author, and the proud CEO of the American Negotiation Institute. Now, before we get into today's insightful conversation, I have a golden opportunity for those of you who recognize the power of negotiation in your professional lives. Have you ever found yourself wishing that you could navigate those high stakes conversations with more confidence? Or perhaps you're looking to empower your team with the art of persuasion and conflict resolution? At the American Negotiation Institute, we've crafted specialized keynotes and workshops tailored for those very needs. We've transformed the negotiation skills of professionals worldwide and we're eager to do the same for you. We believe the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. And our goal is to help you improve your lives and the lives of those around you, one difficult conversation at a time. Don't let another challenging conversation leave you second guessing. Click the link in the description to discover how we can help you find confidence in conflict, negotiate better deals, and have stronger relationships. Because in the world of business, every conversation counts. And now, without further ado, let's jump into the interview.

John, thanks for joining us today.

So good to be with you. I'm really excited about this.

Yes, and I am excited to have you here too, my friend. So how would you get us started? By telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do.

Well, John Seabury, I'm the CEO of the California association of Realtors. We have about 200,000 Realtors in California. And while I'm fairly new still to California, I've been here a year and a half. I came from other realtor associations, so I've actually been working in the real estate association world for over 30 years. I started in Washington, D.C. at our national association of Realtors as a lobbyist. Then I went to Florida association of Realtors as a lobbyist, then Missouri Realtors where I was the CEO and and then made my way west and now I'm in California. Loving it.

I love it. And hey, listen, speaking of California and celebrity vibes, I heard there's a celebrity chef in the house too.

Later today, my leadership team, colleagues and I will be cooking for our charity, which is the California association of Realtors Housing Affordability Fund. We give down payment assistance to those in need, which you can imagine is a lot of Californians with the median price as high as it is.

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's, it's a great effort and it's so important to be able to facilitate the home ownership for so many people. So kudos on that.

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.

So, listeners, John and I met last month in October at an incredible event put on by the California association of Realtors. So, listeners, in this episode, what we're going to do is we're going to focus on the leadership aspect of real estate. Because a lot of times we have folks who are in the real estate industry on the podcast. We're talking about deal making, which is important. But what it takes to be a leader in the real estate industry is really unique. And so for those of you who are in real estate, of course, this is great for you, but those of you who are leaders or aspiring leaders, there's a lot that we can take from this interview as well. So, John, I think a good place for us to start is with the event that you put on last month and then also then just segueing into the skills that it takes to be a leader in the real estate industry.

Sure, I'm happy to do that. I love talking about successful events. And we sure had one. And that was our annual Leadership week. It was the first annual, though it's something that we've had a number of leadership events in the past that were spread out over several months near the end of the year and they were targeted to various audiences. When you think about leadership in real estate, it's multi layered. There are so many layers of leadership. If there's a Realtor listening to us right now, they have a leader who is their broker. They may have a team leader, they have a local association that they belong to, which has an association executive and a president and a leadership team. So we wanted to find a way to bring all of these people together and give them leadership training. And obviously people are at different levels. If someone is an incoming leader at a local association, they may have been a broker for years, they may have been an agent, but they need a certain type of leadership. So we had leadership tracks, we divided people out, we had them attend the things that they found most interesting for them and their leadership journey, depending on where they are in their leadership journey. And as I said in previous years, this was something spread out over months. We had this idea, we're paying for our members to come to a leadership training session. Why don't we combine it into one week. And once we realized this would be a way to get more people together, networking opportunities were better. We would actually save money in the long run by not having the same person fly in three times for three different events. And it was just a wild success. I have to tell you though, you were off the charts. They needed your message and it was really an incredible high point of leadership edge having you there with us.

Hey, John, I appreciate that. That means a lot to me because I'll tell you one thing, going to that event, it did not feel like a first time. You all did an amazing job. And listeners, they were open to being really creative as well. We did a live episode of Negotiate Anything on stage. So we'll get that audio to the production team soon. Yeah, it was a great event. And you're absolutely right. The leadership is such a critical element of what it takes to be a professional and what it takes to make an organization continue to move forward and grow. But finding incredible, like targeted leadership opportunities for developing your leadership skills that addresses the different levels of leadership in different capacities. I think you all did an incredible job of striking that balance. And it's the feedback that I saw from everybody. They were talking about the whole event. They were blown away.

It was great. Yeah. Thank you.

Oh, my pleasure. So now here's an opportunity for us to get a crash course in leadership from John. So when we think about leadership and we think about just your approach to leadership, how would you describe your leadership philosophy?

I have an opportunity to talk about this to our local associations often because I'm trying to help them through their leadership journey and figuring out and understanding that leadership takes many different forms, many different styles. There's no one perfect style. But I personally am very democratic in my leadership style. I want to bring people together, not spoon feed them, but help them learn and be in a position to lead others in the future. And I often say I talk about a crash course in leadership. I had one. I had an amazing crash course because my undergraduate major was organizational behavior. I was taught and I lived this business management for several years of college, figuring out how best to get people to work together to accomplish the most in an organizational setting. And then I graduate from college, moved to Washington D.C. to work for a member of Congress. And it was the complete opposite of everything I had just learned. And I think we can laugh about it now. It was so fascinating. This member of Congress felt their power was in demeaning others and screaming at them. And many would go home crying that day and dreaded coming to work the next day. But I knew from the beginning this is not how to be an effective leader. And I think I learned more from that experience, because if I had left college and moved somewhere to work for the most amazing person, I would have just assumed that's just how it is. That's what I learned as the way to get things done. And this person just does it, you know? Instead, I was basically slapped in the face with this reality that not all people are good leaders. And I take a lot away from that. And I never forget that. You never know what people are going through, where they're coming from, and what experiences they've had that day or that week or other big things they're going through. So keeping all of that in mind, helping teach along the way and being the example is the way that I seem to be successfully getting things done.

This is a great case study on learning in general, because a lot of times we fear difficulty, we fear challenge, we fear failures. And the first experience you had out of college, it wasn't a failure that you had, but it was a challenging situation. And sometimes those negative situations are the most instructive life experiences we can get, you know? And I know for me as a leader, there have been times where I've been good. There have been times where I have been not so great. But acknowledging that, okay, hey, I messed up in these types of ways, and I can improve. And so for you, you were able to say this. This person messed up in these types of ways. Let's make sure that we don't replicate that in other places. It adds to a bit of more of a robust leadership experience that allows you to then teach other people from so many different angles.

Right. I mean, it goes so deep, because I feel like I do lead with my heart, I'm compassionate, and that works for me. Not all people are naturally that way. I think I'm naturally that way. I think back to how my grandmother influenced me, and that was something they instilled in me. So taking that example of that member of Congress who was screaming at me, I was a year and a half into this job, and I needed that paycheck really bad because Washington was expensive and I was right out of college and had college loan debt and all those things. But he was screaming at me one day, and it came from my heart that I shouldn't stand for that. And even though I knew I needed that paycheck, I said, congressman, can you hold on just a second? And I walked over and slammed one door shut. I walked over and slammed the other because again, his power was in people being able to hear him scream at them, at other, at someone. And so he loved that power that it gave him. And when I slammed the doors and said, you shouldn't talk to me that way, there is no reason. And you're not mad at me right now. You're mad at something else that's happening in your life, but you're taking it out on me. And I'll be in the other room if you need me, but I'm not staying here right now. And I walked out. I was 22 or 23 years old. That came from somewhere deep inside of me because I knew it was the only right thing that should happen in that moment. I could have pretended it wasn't happening. I could have just dealt with it like we all did every day. But I just was at a point where I knew it wasn't right and it wasn't right for many, many people. And I stood up for what I thought was right. He respected me more from that day forward, treated me differently than anyone else in the office because everyone had come to be a cheerleader. They were rah rah anything. Of course you're right, of course. And I wasn't that way. And he saw me as being honest and I was going to tell him what I really thought. And in that case, it was to benefit constituents, voting constituents back home. We use that today. And think about the constituent is the California realtor, 200,000 of them. So how can I be bold and make decisions that may be tough, but they're taking into consideration that that Realtor needs us right now. Their business is tough. They're having whatever issues they're having. Are we providing value with our membership? Let's figure out how to do that.

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Oh my goodness. So listeners, let's go back in time and edit what I said at the beginning. This is not a Crash course in leadership. This is a masterclass in leadership. My goodness, this is great. So where do I start? So when you talked about leading with compassion and you said, this is authentically who I am, I think that was really, really insightful because some people just naturally are not compassionate. Some people are. And so we have to lead with authenticity and caring about people. And you lean into that. Now, some people might say, you can't be compassionate. That's soft. That's weak. Clearly it's not. As you stood up to a congressman at 21 or 22 years old, and what you did was you followed your heart. This does not feel right. I'm being called and compelled to stand up and say something. A lot of people hear that call from deep within themselves, and they don't follow because they follow what everybody else is doing. They get swept up in the negativity and they just say, I guess this is my new normal. But you said, no, I'm going to reject that. And when it comes to standing up to bullies and standing up to really aggressive people, there's one thing that people often miss, and it's the fact that strength respects strength. And a lot of times, if the bully is just mowing over people and bulldozing people, they're used to that resistance. They enjoy getting what they want, but they don't respect the person on the other side. And for you, they probably didn't appreciate or enjoy the resistance or the way that you stood up for yourself, but they did respect it. And there's a difference between being liked and being respected. And as a leader, we're going toward that respect.

So I tell you, this is a.

Great case study here on what it takes to be a leader.

Well, thank you. I appreciate it. And the person who does feel like maybe you're soft, if you're compassionate, I would still say that even if they don't feel they're compassionate, they probably have gut feelings. They should at least know when a situation isn't optimal or we've got a better way to handle this. And not everyone is an extrovert. I know so many leaders. I probably know more wonderful, true leaders who are introverted. They go on stage and give the best speech and they're inspiring, but it's tough for them to go hug someone afterward. It's just a difficult thing. But it's a different style. It's great. And we can find ways for all leadership styles to work. Even though I'm this more democratic, I would say if the building's on fire, I'm going to start screaming and directing people to get out. I was that person too. On 911 in Washington D.C. our office, the national association of Realtors headquarters in Washington, was very near the FBI building. And we're seeing what's happening on TVs and I go into this mode of get everyone out of the building, get home. What's the best way? When I started facilitating that and getting people out, and that may not be who I normally am barking orders, but that's who I was in that instance, because that's what that instance called for.

We know we're talking to a master chef because you can't have a one note dish right as a leader, you cannot just always be one thing all the time. And great leaders are able to sense the circumstances, recognize what's required, and then follow through and actually do what is required. Because it's probably not your authentic or preferred way to lead yelling at people, telling what to do. But under those circumstances, it was the only way to be effective. And so you have to be able to make that read and adjust, even if it feels uncomfortable, in order to be effective as a leader. And I think a lot of times it's that sacrifice of not being able to do it exactly the way that you want to do that holds people back from being an effective leader. But when you sit back and do the analysis and you say, yep, today I need to be John the policeman.

Yes, right.

Okay, that's who I need to be today. I think that's something really important for us to get from that story too.

Great. Yeah, very good.

Oh, this is great. And when we think about leadership in real estate in particular, what do you think are some of the things that make leadership in that industry so challenging?

I believe it's one of the most interesting, and I mentioned earlier, there are layers and levels. You know, there is the broker and the team leader that are pretty much all business back at the office working on those tough things. Whereas in the field I'm in of association leadership, we are working to make sure that competitors understand each other and are doing what's best for consumers. And I think it's unlike most other associations because we come together to talk about how are we going to pass laws that are more consumer friendly and allow them to get into homes easier and maybe pay less taxes or find down payment assistance through a government mortgage program or whatever the case is. That's our advocacy leadership. Then there is the legal leadership area, where now the bill has passed, it's a law, and the forms have changed. And you have to know these things and be professional and subscribe to a higher code of ethics and professional standards and education, constantly educating yourself. So this year, I think leaders in our industry have realized this market is very different than it was, say, a year ago or two years ago, where you put a home on the market and it has 25 offers and it goes for more and the prices keep going up. And we're constantly thinking, how can the police officer, the firefighter, the first responder, the teacher live in the neighborhood they serve? How are we going to be a leader to find programs that help them get into that? So, coming back to our celebrity chef thing later today, that's raising money to get those people over the down payment hurdle. So being a leader means that you're looking at the problems, responding to those problems, and better yet, you're predicting what those issues could be for the future. And I'm walking into a situation where I've only been here a year and a half, and some of the issues that are our challenges didn't happen overnight. It took 30 years to get us to the California that you see today, whether that's politically or zoning ordinances at the local level. And all these things that we now find as challenges that we have to work through. And we have to get creative and find partners, the general public. I've always said that our advocacy is bigger than us. So many groups will go fight for an issue at the state capitol, but when we fight for it, we're fighting for everyone. Because that impact real estate has on the economy, this incredible ripple effect, makes us a leader, and we have to do the right thing so that that ripple effect through the economy, you know, the rising tides raises all ships. If we're part of that, we're advancing everyone's Future.

I agree 100%. And for me, as somebody who is a negotiation nerd, I just love the different directions of the advocacy that you are involved in. Because for you, as a leader, you're running the organization, you have a leadership role there. That's negotiation constantly. But then you're negotiating with governments, you're negotiating with individual realtors and all of these different entities. But we're seeing how the ability to lead, negotiate, and have difficult conversations is ubiquitous to the success that you and your team enjoy. And we're coming up on time here. But I want to ask you about the future, because like you said, the market is tough. We understand it's tightening a bit. Mortgage rates are high. When you think about the work that you're doing with the California association of realtors. What does 2024 look like for you?

2024 is exciting because I'm seeing light at the end of the tunnel. I talk to economists every day. Our own economists are predicting an increase in home sales by as much as 20%, really, in 2024. And this is not just unique to California, this is something that I believe we're going to see across the country. Because right now, if you're a couple who've been in a house for 30 years, you're not eager to move if there's nothing for you to move into, or maybe you've been there 10 years and you're locked in at a 3% interest rate and you're hearing about these 7% interest rates and 8% and that's scaring you. And you don't want to give up that low interest rate. Even though your family's growing or your family's shrinking because kids have left for college or whatever the case may be, you're sitting on the sidelines. So interest rates have already started to come down slightly. We are predicting interest rates will come down more into 2024. And that will get us the buyer in a new mindset of, you know what, I may not get the 3.5% anymore, but let me take advantage of this 6% now because the value is going to continue to rise and I can refinance in two years when it's down further, versus continue to rent and you'll never see that money ever again. We have to look towards building generational wealth. And that generational wealth comes from the home that you live in that you're making mortgage payments on versus rent payments on to someone else. So love it.

Oh, that's exciting. That is exciting news.

Very exciting. And I tell you, everyone, consumers, buyer, sellers, first time buyers, our members, everyone wants to see this light at the end of the tunnel. It's exciting because it's been a rough. A rough patch.

Yeah, for sure. That is great. I'm glad we're able to end on a note of positivity. That's really exciting to see what's coming down the pike on 2024. Listeners make sure, especially if you're in the real estate industry and you're looking for an amazing event to attend in 2024, check out the California association of Realtors. I vouch for it. It's a great event. Can you let the listeners know about the next year's event, where it's going to be and when?

Yeah. So we have three business conferences each year. So the listener, if they are a California Realtor, are invited to come to those business conferences. We do not charge a registration fee that's part of their member benefit. So just in September, we had our annual conference and Expo. 7200 realtors from across California were there to learn and network, and that was really incredible. The event you came to was Leadership Edge, which is invitation only for those who are a leader of their local association, president elect, for example. They're coming into leadership, the association executives, our chairs and vice chairs of our committees, the advocacy leaders at each of the 99 local associations, our national directors and others. And we'll be sending out invitations to those attendees once we have a date and location finalized.

Exciting. Very, very exciting, listeners. We will put links to everything we discussed in the description of this episode. John, I really, really appreciate you taking the time.

Thank you. Kwame, it was wonderful to see you again.

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