Lessons Learned from Real Estate Negotiations with Doug Owens

Hello, my friend, and welcome to another exciting episode of Negotiate Anything. Thanks for joining us today. With over 10 million downloads and listeners from more than 180 different countries, it's dedicated listeners just like you who have made Negotiate Anything the number one negotiation podcast in the world. I'm your host, Kwame Christian. I'm a business lawyer, mediator, author, and the proud CEO of the American Negotiation Institute. Now, before we get into today's insightful conversation, I have a golden opportunity for those of you who recognize the power of negotiation in your professional lives. Have you ever found yourself wishing that you could navigate those high stakes conversations with more confidence? Or perhaps you're looking to empower your team with the art of persuasion and conflict resolution? At the American Negotiation Institute, we've crafted specialized keynotes and workshops tailored for those very needs. We've transformed the negotiation skills of professionals worldwide, and we're eager to do the same for you. We believe the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. And our goal is to help you improve your lives and the lives of those around you, one difficult conversation at a time. Don't let another challenging conversation leave you second guessing. Click the link in the description to discover how we can help you find confidence in conflict, negotiate better deals, and have stronger relationships. Because in the world of business, every conversation counts. And now, without further ado, let's jump into the interview.

Doug, thanks for joining us today.

Hey, thanks, Kwame, for having me on the show.

It is my pleasure. So how would you get us started? By telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do.

All right, Kwame. My name is Doug Owens and I'm a real estate trainer, or as I like to say, more of a conversation and trainer. So I really help real estate agents get better. So I really work with real estate agents from the beginning of their real estate careers or just getting started, maybe give them some tools and things that they can use to help them get started. And even those agents that are like just getting started, they're like maybe their first, second year and they're just not finding that success that they want to have. Well, I have some tools and procedures and things I can do to help them grow their business as well, all the way up to the seasoned agents, the vets that have been around for 20 years, maybe they want to just take their business to that elite level so that they in that top 5 and 10% in their markets. So my real goal is just to make real estate better, just better for everybody, so that if agents are better and they'll have better careers, they'll be able to help more clients, and then the brokerages will be better. And the brokerages won't have to keep hiring new agents all the time. They have loyalty with their agents. And by the way, we do trainings for brokerages as well. And then ultimately, if the agents are better, the brokerages are better, the clients, they're happier, they have a better experience with their agents, they trust their agents a lot more, and they're more satisfied with their transactions. So it's not a win, win. It's a win for all three. I call it a win, win, win.

I love it. Winning everywhere, which is what we like to see. Man, that's great. So, yeah, and when you think about what it takes to be a successful agent, you have to be able to negotiate, and that's going to be a big part of it. So I'm really excited to dig into your expertise and listeners. Let me put. Doug's prep for this is extensive. I am impressed. And I was telling him, I'm so excited after going through this outline. I'm like, man, I can't wait to get to this so I can learn this stuff. So the three things we're going to cover today, number one, a genuine start. Number two, which is what I'm most interested in, is unintentional arrogance, which is great. And then number three, targeted patience. Oh, okay, Doug. So let's start off with a genuine start. So what does that mean?

Oh, yeah. So to be a genuine start, it's a great place to start, right? With a genuine start. So, Kwame, when you hear the word genuine, what do you think of when you hear genuine?

I would say real. Authentic.

Authentic. Yeah, authentic. Those are the first words that come to everybody's mind when they think about being genuine. So quite often, if you're working for a company, a real estate agent doesn't really matter where you are. And any sales, they always tell you the best salespeople are authentic. They're genuine. Right? So just be who you are. Be natural. But I had a question, though, Kwame. What if you're sarcastic, that's your real you, right? That's keeping it real. You know, suppose. Suppose you're just. Just mean and you're just grumpy person. Or maybe here's just a person that's fucking walk over all the time. Just so easy going, too laid back. That's the real use. Should that show up?

Probably not without some moderation there. That's a really good point.

Exactly. So that's so it's about being genuine. And I do agree with it fundamentally, but I think to be genuine, you have to understand who you are. Right. And so one of the trainings that. One of the things I used to do in my trainings is I would start the classroom off by asking everyone in the room, what's your mindset? How are you feeling today? And people go around and they're anxious, they're excited, they're nervous and all these things. That's how they are feeling in the moment. And also it has to do with how they are physically. Are they tired? And that's what they would say sometimes. So knowing your mindset is very important. And to me, that's who you are in the moment. Right. However, I think there's more to you than that. That's one you. I actually think there's three U's. Right. I don't know if my English teacher's gonna like that, but there's three U's. Y O, U S. So here's. So we already just talked about you. And I call that the present you. And you have that historical you. This is all the experiences you've got from the time you were born all the way through the moment, just before you started this interaction or this negotiation or this whatever you're getting involved with. So you had a lot of experience how you were raised, where you were born, whether you had money, whether you've taken classes, you've gone to college, you've just learned so much wins and losses. That's the historical you all the way up to that crappy email that you just got a few moments ago. Right. So that's the historical you. And you have the present you that we just talked about. Right. And the third you, is that not really futuristic, but it's more that judgmental, that bias you. You're talking about the counterpart that you're working with. So what you're thinking that they're going to think about you, how expect this to go, Right. Maybe they're gonna. Oh, God, I hope they listen to me. You're thinking of all these things. I hope they're really engaged with me. Oh, I hope they don't just walk away. I hope I can keep them. And so it's all these expectations that you have for some. So it's kind of like a little bias or a judgment. You're kind of prejudging everything. So those are the three use. So recognize where you are first. Okay. Oh, and Kwame, guess what? Guess who else is at the Party.

The three versions of the other person, too.

Exactly. The three thems. It's not just the three used. There's a three thems. So there's actually six of you right now. Six players in this production we like to call a conversation, and no wonder we have a difficult time with it. We have to deal with all these personalities. We got to bring all these together. So it's quite a challenge. So in order to be genuine, first recognize who you are. Okay? So that's one of the critical pieces to start off. And by the way, I really don't think that you can change the three thems. You can't control it. That is, you can't control who they are. They come with what they are. Their history is their history. How they're feeling. They retired. They woke up. That's who they are. What they're thinking about you, that's baked in. That's who they are. Right. However, I do believe that you can control the three U's, right? You can have some control over that. So this is why. Does it make sense, Kwame?

Oh, it makes a lot of sense. And I love the layers of this, too, Doug, because, again, one of the things that's tough about any type of skill that you're learning in any difficult conversation in any part of your life is that when we're new to it, not only is it completely new to us, but we might be so new to it that we don't even understand the different layers of what's happening. Right? And so I think a lot of people are having an experience as they're hearing this. They're like, aha. This makes so much sense. I can understand the complexity, and I can understand how this dynamic of the six individuals at the table, most of which we can't see, plays a role in the quality of our interaction. So I love that you're breaking this up so we can actually see these elements.

Oh, perfect. So, you know, the. I just said that there's a way that you can actually control the three us, and so let's try to take control of that. So one of the things I like to do is what I call triggering observation mode. So let's think about that, how we can trigger that in ourselves. So one of the things that before you have an interaction, you're going to a meeting, a negotiation, or you're meeting with a new client or whatever it is. Take a break.

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Actually take a break. Take a few moments beforehand so you can set your mind free. And you know, people take a break and they'll walk away from their desk and they'll get up and they'll walk to the water cooler or the coffee station and they spend the whole time complaining about, oh, I got so many emails. I got this going on. Oh, that last email was terrible. Oh, I got this next meeting coming up with my boss and he's always all over me. And you're just going through and you're just making things feel worse. And then you run into somebody at the coffee station and you talk to them as well and say, can you believe what Bob just said in that last meeting? And it's just going on and you're talking about it and then you look at your watching go, my next meeting starting in 30 seconds. Let me run back to my desk. And then you jump into that meeting and did you have a break? Was that a break at all? You just relived all of your horrible situation that you just dealt with. It's like going to see a bad movie. Oh, you know what? I love that bad movie so much. I'm going to go watch it again. So why replay all those negative things? It doesn't even make sense. Right?

Yes, Doug, this is so good. This is really good. Because this again, something that people don't realize because it's, it's sounding like, you know, what ends up happening is we bounce from meeting to meeting and we are reacting, not really responding. We don't have the time to settle down. And I love the. And I think a few people might have missed this because you didn't just say, hey, let's, you know, observation mode. Let's you be a more observant. Right, you're like, no triggering observation mode. Which implies that we are not typically in this state and we need to operate with intentionality to actually turn it on.

Yes, absolutely. And guess what? I got a little tip that I use to actually help you trigger it.

Let's do it.

So this is how you do it. So once you take a break. Now I actually live in a place where I can walk outside and see a little nature. If you have an opportunity, I know you need to walk away, but if you can go outside, I like to be outside in the nature. If you can't, maybe in an office, just look out a window or just look for something. And when you go outside, look for something new, something that you've never seen before. And so I was doing this the other day, and I walked outside and I looked and I said, oh, the Black Eyed Susans are blooming. Didn't even notice that before. And it's great because I'm in Germany right now. So it reminded me of Maryland. That's the Maryland state flower. So reminded me of home. So I look.

Oh.

So I walked up to the Black Eyed Susan. Then I looked at it, and I was like, oh, this is nice. And I said, wait a minute. I never noticed that there were two layers of these yellow petals on the Black Eyed Susan. Never noticed that before that. Wait a minute. At the end of each petal, it's like a cutout, like a little V shape. At the end of each one, I went, huh. Didn't even know that was there. And then I looked at the center of the Black Eyed Susan. I said, holy crap, that's not black. It's actually dark brown. It's a Black Eyed Susan. In the center of it was actually a really dark brown. From a distance, it looked black, but it was really. So I just really looked at all these things. And Kwame, as I was looking at this Black Eyed Susan and I looked at the detail in it, do you know what I was thinking about?

The Black Eyed Susan.

The Black Eyed Susan. I was not thinking about that historical me. I was not thinking about the present me and how I was feeling and all my moods. And, you know, I'm tired. I wasn't even thinking about the counterpart, the client that I had. You know, I wasn't thinking about it. I was thinking about the Black Eyed Susan. Right. So this is what I call triggering your mind. So your mind is now set to receive new information. So that's what I mean by triggering that in your mind. So then once you've triggered it, just before you go into that meeting, just before. I'm not an affirmation kind of guy. I don't really do a whole lot of that stuff. It's okay. I'm not knocking it if that's your thing. But just before the meeting I said, you know what? In this conversation, this interaction, I'm going to look for the Black Eyed Susan. I want to find something new, something that I have never known before. I'm just going to discover it's going to make me more actively listen. Because people always tell you to actively listen. They don't tell you how. So I'm just going to be. I'm just going to look for the Black Eyed Susan. I'm going to use that as my metaphor and something I'm going to connect through throughout the whole thing. And not only am I to look for the look for that Black Eyed Susan, that thing that's useful, that's good, that something that I don't know, I'm actually gonna look at the detail. Once I find that Black Eyed Susan, I'm actually gonna look, oh, let me see if I can find that. The second layer of leaves on there. Maybe I'm gonna see the true color of it. So that's what I do. So now my mind is set and I'm ready. Remember I said earlier used to walk into trainings and I used to ask their mindset. Mm, I don't. I actually kind of changed that. Now what I do is I walk into a meeting, I want to set my mind so that I'm ready to receive.

So what I'm realizing here, as we think about the historical you, we're thinking about all of our baggage, all those past. We think about the judgmental or biased you. So we're always creating these value judgments they talk about with mindfulness and meditation. The brain is very judgmental. It's always assigning either, you know, something positive to something or a lot of times it's negative judgment or blame associated with it too. And so I'm realizing now that most likely part of our issues in difficult conversations comes from the fact that the present you is very rarely there because we're not, we're not living in the moment. And there's so much rich literature behind what you're saying too, when it comes to the science of nature. There is just something naturally calming about nature. They've done a lot of studies. Patients get better when they have an exposure to sunlight and nature, things like that. Right. And so there's a lot of science that goes behind the calming effects of nature. So you can actually put yourself in the right mindset. And it's so funny because we all have brains, but we are not all schooled on how the brain works. And so this, this tool that you're giving us here, triggering Observation mode is, is well rooted within the, the neuroscience that we understand. But few people know this, so they might go into like the tactics or strategies and say, I'm not paying much attention, those type of things. Hey, they probably wouldn't think, take a walk and look at a flower as one of the things that could really help.

Yeah. Relax, go. You want to go into that conversation as much of a blank slate as you can do. You don't want to carry anything with you. You just want to go in there, just open and looking for something. And I like to be. I'm not going to go too deep into that, but just to be a good finder, look for good things, everybody. It's easy to find negative things in the world. Just try to find something good, find something useful, and that's really going to make your decision day in your conversations. Everything go better.

Absolutely. And one other thing too, I want to make sure that we highlight as well. Looking for surprises. This is something that we've heard a ton on the podcast. You need to expect the unexpected. There is always going to be something that will surprise you in the conversation. But again, thinking about it through this, this framework here, the judgmental or biased you seeks confirming information, not disconfirming information.

Right.

And so we're not, we think we're listening, but we're just trying to. To make ourselves feel righter.

Oh, yeah.

In the process.

Yeah, I'm right. And please tell me I'm right. Exactly.

Confirm that for me. Exactly. Oh, this is great.

So this is awesome. So another part is. So we're gonna talk while we're on the subject of being genuine and we talked about the real you and doing the right things and people aren't often told what to say. Right. So that you're actually really genuine. I thought this would be a good place to do a little quick role play, if you don't mind.

Let's do it.

Oh, okay. Let's take this. Since I do a lot of real estate training, let's take in the context of a real estate situation and we'll make you a home buyer. Okay. You're actually searching around online. You look in, you discovered. Yeah, I kind of like this. I'm thinking I want to learn some more. Your first time home buyer, you haven't talked to anybody. You're just getting started. That's you. Okay. And maybe you put your information online and I got it. Somehow it showed up as a lead for me. Okay. So I'm going to give you a call. Okay. Let's do it. Let's just take it from there and just see. Just play it out, see what happens. And I pick up your phone, ring a ling. A ling. A ling.

Hey, this is Kwame.

Hey, I'm Doug with Super Cool Real Estate. How are you doing today?

I am super cool today. How are you?

Oh, that's great. The reason for my call is I got your information online and I see that you're in the market for a home. Are you currently working with a real estate agent?

No, I'm not.

Oh, that's great. Because I have a great track record of helping agents find homes in your area. I'm a certified buyer's agent and certified seller's agent. I'm accredited as a VA agent, and I'm also accredited to work with seniors, those over 55. And I'm just hoping that I can win your business and represent you as you're buying a home during your home buying process. So in order to get started, I just have a question. How many bedrooms and bathrooms are you looking for?

Oh, that's a good question. I'm looking for about six bedrooms, three baths.

Okay, perfect. All right, let's stop here. That's good enough. I don't want to go too far. That was great. Good job, Kwame. You're one of my better students. That's good stuff. Okay. You're not so bad. You're all right. So how did that feel?

It felt okay. It felt a bit one sided, you know, like maybe I was, you know, there was a lot of information I was receiving. Didn't talk too much. I. I didn't talk too much.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, see, that's the one thing immediately. So when you're having a conversation, you know, if you're trying to find it out about somebody, don't do all the talking. Allow them to do the talking. I don't know if you noticed this, but the first thing I asked said is I'm Doug with Super Cool Real Estate. I didn't even say your name, acknowledge you. I didn't ask you if you had a enough time for the meeting right now. And I. And then, oh, my favorite is I come in this with, how are you doing today? And what did you say?

Super cool.

Super cool. Right. So the truth is, how are you? Did you. Is that how you're really doing today? No, that's not how you're doing today. Right, right. So. So, Kwame, make sure I got this right. We just met and you just lied to me, Right? I just asked how you're doing. And you just out not lied to me. So. So this is a. It's a fundamen thing that sales people do all the time. They ask this question, how are you doing today? The client lies to them and say they're doing good or I'm okay or something. Short answer like this. And so no wonder agents are saying buyers are liars. You're turning them into liars by asking these not genuine questions. Right. So, you know, so you don't want to do that. Right. So you just tell. Ask them how they're doing today is a bad thing. And then you rattle off all these things. I'm a VA agent, Kwame. Are you a veteran? Nope. No. I also work with seniors. Are you over 55? Are you a senior?

I hope to be at some point.

So you're just giving them a whole bunch of information that they don't want. So is it much better to find out what they actually want before you start dumping a bunch of information on them?

Yeah, absolutely. Makes a lot of sense, right?

So instead of just doing that, just try to follow some of those programs. Just listen to some of those things and Kwame, let's do it. Let's. Can we do it just one more time? Okay, so let's do it again. And that's. And action. Ring a ling. A ling.

Hey, this is Kwame.

Great. Hi, my name is Doug. And Kwame, is this a good time for us to meet?

Hey, this is Kwame.

Hi. This is Doug Owens, the super cool real estate. Is this Kwame Christian?

Yeah.

Oh, great. I just received your info and entered that you entered in online. And I'm reaching out to see how I can help you, if that's okay. Is now a bad time to talk?

I've got. I've got a couple of minutes.

Okay, Perfect. Perfect. I promise to keep this brief so my most successful clients find it useful if just two things happen. One, I find out a little bit about your situation, how and what you're looking for. And then the second thing is I'll offer up a few tips that can help you in your search. And, you know, regardless of whether we work together or not, at least you're going to gain some valuable information that'll help you in your home search, and you won't feel like we've wasted our time in these few minutes and together. How does that sound? Does that sound okay?

Yeah, I guess that sounds fair.

Okay, great. So, Kwame, tell me what has you out looking for a house?

Well, I just moved to Germany. I have a real Estate company.

Okay, perfect. Okay, that's time. That's great. That's great. I'm actually heavy. Love to see you come to Germany. That's awesome. So a couple things that I did change there. One, I did ask your name. You know, I referenced you. I asked for your permission. Is it okay to talk right now? I let you know it's going to be brief. And I told you, hey, there's only two things we need to talk about here, Right. Kwame, how would you like it if I said, you know what, I have a 37 step process that we need to go. Right. Let's not make it complicated for him. Right. It's just two things you need to do. I need to understand a little bit about you, and then I'm going to give you some tips that are specific to you. And even if we don't work, work together, you're going to get some information that's going to be useful to you, but either way, it won't be a waste of your time.

Yeah. Oh, Doug, this is. This is great. So love the time check at the beginning to make sure that you're. You're speaking to a receptive audience. And then I love the fact that you respected the time check where I said, I have a couple of minutes, and then you say, yep, I respect that. I'm going to make that quick. You set a very quick agenda to help to assuage any concerns that I had about how long it could take. Just two things. Very nice and easy. So I could see where we are in the conversation. And then you took even more pressure off of me by saying, regardless of whether or, or not we work together, hopefully I can provide you with some helpful information. I think this was just. It's so short and there, but there's so many, again, layers to this that no matter what industry you're in, you can learn a lot from this genuine introduction.

Oh, yeah. One of the things that I hear people say all the time is, I'm hoping that I can win some of your business. Well, you know, I'm hoping that I can win your business. It's about you already. Stop making it about yourself. Make it about the client. Try to help them, offer service for them. Don't make it about yourself. Yeah, you want to win their business, but you can talk about that stuff later.

Yeah, Makes so much sense.

So this is all about being, getting off to that genuine start. So we got to remember everything you say, not just have a mindset, set your mind, state your intentions, just be genuine. What you do. Honest and curious, understanding. And then you realize that there's always something that you can learn. Okay.

Yeah. Oh, this is good. This is really great. Well, perfect. So move on. Good. Time to move on to unintentional arrogance.

Interesting enough. I think it's a perfect segue to talk about unintentional arrogance.

Let's go.

Okay.

Love it.

So, unintentional arrogance. Okay, so let me tell you what I mean by unintentional arrogance. Kwame, have you ever run into this person? I've been in this business for 18 years, and I know what I'm talking about.

Have you ever run into that person as a lawyer?

I mean, who.

Who isn't that person? I've seen somebody say it with that level of arrogance, after two years, oh, my God, passed the bar exam is like, come on, settle yourself down. Settle down.

Okay. Exactly. Well, you know what's interesting, though, is that these people did not get that way overnight. At least I would say not. You know, at one point, 18 years ago, they were a rookie. They didn't have that experience. They actually went. Had a whole 18 years, which they just told you of experience, where they've had wins and losses, they've had successes and failures, and all the way along, they've learned a lot of stuff. Maybe they've read some books, they've gone to some classes, they've had seminars. Right. And they know what it takes to be successful. So in a sense, they're. They're trying to do the right thing. They are, but their delivery is just not so good. Right. And they actually need that confidence. So all that experience is what you want, because that will give you confidence. People are oftentimes asking, how are you so confident when you're talking to a client? Well, it's just experience. I've gained some knowledge over it. The challenge is when your confidence turns into arrogance, because confidence actually is really shows that you're competent. Right. So if you have confidence. Everybody loves confident people. They love confidence people. It attracts people. I don't care whether it's in a dating relationship, whether it's your parent to your kids, whether you're a manager at work, or whether you're an executive, it doesn't really matter. We want competent people. We want confident people. But it can come across as pushy. You can come across as a know it all and. Or even what I say is unintentionally arrogant. Okay? So if you want to have an effective conversation, I would say, in my opinion, I think you should take this unintentional arrogance. It's just something you should probably try to avoid. Okay. And so you truth. I came up with this maybe about 10 years ago. The first time I came up with it. I won't forget. This is a true story. I was on the phone with a client, and I'm just going through all the things and the tips and the things that they need and, you know, get your pre approval and yada yada, I'm just going through and everything, telling you everything they needed to expect. And I hung up the phone with them. And my wife, lovely as she is, she looked at me and she says, you sounded a little arrogant on that phone call. I was like, what? No, I was just giving them information. I got so defensive. I know what I was talking about. I'm telling them what they need to know. Right? And she just walked away. She said, okay, that's what you think. And then I gave myself after. Later on that evening, I thought about it. I said, you know what? I think I might have been a little arrogant on that phone call. I think she's right. So my intentions were great. My intentions were to help this client out, but I didn't close with that client, and I kind of scared that client off. So it ultimately would happen. So. And I think that in my effort to help somebody, I was unintentionally cocky or arrogant, overconfident maybe instead of confident. So this is what I mean by this unintentional Arrogance.

I love this for two main reasons. Reason number one, I love that it started with a story with your wife, because the first time I read Unintentional Arrogance, I'm like, I'm going to bookmark this episode for Whitney because she's going to love hearing me grow in the moment. This is great. We're glad that we're on the same page here. The other thing is, I really can see how so many people could get. Get caught up in this, because think about the. The profile of the person who is listening to a podcast like this. They clearly care about their knowledge. They clearly care about growth. And Growth is an app is a great thing. And so it's natural to want to share that, too, to share that growth and let people know what you have accomplished and how much you care about your development and, you know, how it could potentially help them too. But there's a. There's an art. And so this. This is really important.

Oh, absolutely. You know, and actually in this moment is when I realize it's not my job to tell them what I Think. But it's my job to think about what they tell me. That is what I really realize. Normally, these arrogant folks, they just want to tell them what they think all the time. That's it. No, no, ask a question. Think about what they told you. And then. So that's one of the things. So really, the goal is really to not let your current knowledge just get in the way of your knowledge. Just be open to that. Okay. And it just happens in various ways.

Yeah.

So.

So let's, let's break this down. Okay, Listen, Doug, you cannot just drop bars like this and then just pass. Just pass on like you did not just drop some incredible wisdom here. So let's, let's bring this back. So, so say. Say what you just said just a little bit slower because I really, really want people to get this. Because you said, let me know if I got this right. Because you said you don't want your past knowledge to get in the way of your future knowledge. Break that one down, because that's okay.

So this actually, it's actually pretty good. It's almost redundant of what I said earlier. It's that historical you. It's that all of that stuff that you've learned all the way in the past, you've learned so much that you are just on top of your game. And, you know, what's the best thing for this situation? And inevitably, you arguably could be right. But, you know, and I was reading a book by. I think it's Therese Houston. It's called let's Talk.

She's on the podcast. Yeah, she's been on. Yeah. Her episode was Fire. Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. So she's great. She just. I remember I read one quote in there that she said that the opposite of a good idea can be another good idea. I was like, I wish I could take credit for it, but she wrote that and. But it's really great. So when you go into the situations, know, and you. You really think that you know what you're going on, you got to be open up so you can actually be open to listening to what somebody else has to say because you might learn something new. Remember what I said about looking for that Black Eyed Susan in the conversation? You know, you might want to just look, you know, for yourself. Maybe you're going to pick up something in yourself, a Black Eyed Susan in what you think you know? So remember, your goal is not to tell them what you think. Think about what they tell you.

That's so good. Okay, now let's do a little. Let's dig a little deeper here, too, because I think a lot of people would listen to this and say, doug, you're right. However, I'm having trouble doing that.

Why?

So it's not just about the strategy itself, but there are some internal blockers that make it difficult to execute the strategy. So what are those things that could get in the way?

Oh, yeah. Well, you know, it's also your history. It's a life lived. So it's. Once you get into this mode and you are just caught up in it, in the moment, you can get caught up in anything, and especially when you got a bunch of people that are supporting you. So if you're on a team and everybody says all buyers are liars, you thinking that. So you get caught up in the moment with everybody else, just kind of this group mentality. You're all part of the same tribe, and you're all be. You're all watching the same podcast, and you're listening to the same thing, and you kind of have that group mentality, kind of break free of it. So you have to be open to listening. You actually have to go in as that blank slate. I really described that in the beginning. Go as that blank slate. Recognize. Look for something new, look for something good. And if you really look for it, if you look for something good, you can actually find it. It's easy to find the bad stuff that's everywhere, and that's what people remember. People don't often remember the good stuff.

Yeah. Oh, this is good. This is great. Well, as you could tell, I mean, I could just talk to you forever about this. So for the sake of time, let's go on to the. To the third part, which is targeted patients.

Oh, yeah. Targeted patients. Now, targeted patients is. This is one that I personally use, and I love this. And. And I'm. And it's in full disclosure. Kwame. I actually used it on you, just full disclosure. And, you know, it just makes me smile and just laugh because you fell for it. It's so great.

Oh, this is great. This is great. Because, Doug, this is funny because I almost said it during our role play because you. You know, we started off with the phone ringing and me answering the phone, and I wanted to say, Doug, the problem with this is that I don't answ anymore, man. So how do you get through to me? So this is great because you. Because you did it. You did it. So I want to hear about this.

So this is exactly right. Just for all the listeners, and you think they can get on the Podcast by doing this, I'm going to give Kwame the secret now. So I don't know if it's going to work for everybody else anymore, but let's go for it anyway. Let's talk about it. So let me explain this concept of targeted patients. So, okay, let's say we kind of break it down. It's kind of been sequential. So we started out with how you have to come as a blank slate and know who you are, ask effective questions up front so you can understand that, right? Then you want to be. You don't be that arrogant person. You want to be, have that unintentional arrogance. You don't want to, you want to avoid that. You want to be open and ready to receive something. So then if you're going to do this part, targeted patience. It's what you take what you've learned through asking those questions and your research that you've done with them, and then you add value. Here's the big part. Free of charge, you just give it to them, right? And most of the time, what people think, I don't know. You've probably heard this. Most people think time is money, right? We've all heard it. Time is money. I don't have time to wait. I mean, it doesn't work. Real estate agents say that all the time. Spend your money on revenue generating activities, right? Time is money. I, you know, I don't necessarily know that. I think time is time and money is money, right? I can't walk into a car dealer and say, I got some time, give me a new car. Doesn't work that way, right? Time is time and money is money, right? So let's, let's just think about that. Granted, I get where they're coming from, but there's a correlation, right? She does take time to earn some money. So I get where they're going through. But the challenge is, is that it puts you in rush mode. You know, you got. So a real estate agent will go out with the new client and the client and they'll say, hey, in order to get started, you got to get pre approved. So you're ready to go. We got to make sure that you're ready to go and you know what you qualify for. And the client might say, well, I'm not ready to go get pre approved yet. And then the agent goes, well, not a serious buyer. I'm not going to waste my time with them. I'm going to find somebody that's serious. Let me know when you're ready to get pre Approved so we can get started because it's pointless for us to go out and get started, right? And you kind of brush them off and you go on to the next client. You get the low hanging fruit, the easy one, they're already pre qualified and they're ready to go. So in real estate people always want to have a ready and able and willing buyer, right? Those are the three things that touted all the time. But this whole concept of time is money. It just makes people rush, it makes you forget about, okay, not ready will enable. Now they're just tire kickers. And I don't know why they say that because there's no tires on houses. It's really weird. But they're just tire kickers, right? And then they don't really go out and they don't give them the attention and guess what happens? That same client that they didn't pay attention to, 30 days, 45 days later, they're under contract with another agent and he just blew an opportunity. Right? And so that's one of the challenges with it. So try not to rush. And that's where this patience comes in, right. So which means the results aren't going to be immediate. Ask those open ended questions so you can find out more compassionate curiosity, curiosity. If you heard that before, maybe do a little bit of that, right? And go in and try to find out what their story is. Their story could be simply that maybe their credit, they've used too much of their credit. They got a big bonus coming in 30 days, they're going to pay it down and then they want to run their credit. Maybe that's simple. Now they're much better qualified in a much better position, but you don't know because you didn't ask and you lost a client. So quite often people will do that. They'll jump around from company to company to think it's going to get better without finding out why and trying to figure out what they can do to make it better. And you know, agents will jump from brokerage to brokerage. I'm going to, oh, I'm not finding success. I'm going to go there. Oh, I'm not finding success. Well, maybe have you practiced the conversation skills or do you have those down yet that you can be more successful? So this is where I think we need some targeted patience. So and I don't mean just regular patience, people say patience, that means you got to wait around for some, just be patient. It'll happen. Things for things will happen. Well, they don't really happen if you're just waiting around. So. So there's what I call targeted patients. So let's talk about the targets. Okay. What do I mean? So clearly we need patients to make stuff happen. So what are the targets? Remember when I said there's the six people in the conversation, the three used, and the three thems? Right? Your first target is your counterpart's history. Right? You want to. You want to be a part of their new history. So every time you interact with them, you go in and you're looking for that Black Eyed Susan, you're looking for that new thing, and then you kind of want to water that flower a little bit. You want to find out a little bit more about them. You know, do something memorable. Give them some value that helps them remind them. So every time their situation comes up that you're the first thing that comes to mind that you at least come up. If you're not the first thing, you're certainly one of the things they talk about. So you deliver. Give them something. So give them value without even asking. You're not asking for anything yet. The only thing you're doing is giving them value. And so don't. By giving them value. Some people think it's like telling them and showing them. You're telling them your expertise. Oh, I'm an expert at this, so you should work with me. Now, you don't tell them you're an expert. Show them that you're an expert by giving them the value. Give them something that they can walk away with with. So that is the first target. Okay. Your second target is when you actually is their problem. So you focus and offer a solution to their problem. So this solution, it needs to coincide with their problem and not just their problem. It's the feeling that they have behind their problem. It's how they actually feel about what is the emotion attached to it. So you understand that and you know that, and you offer the solution that will make them feel better, that'll move them towards the solution of their problems. That's your second target. So, and then once you have that level of confidence that you really understand their needs and you really know that, oh, I have a service or I have something that will help you with that. You provide that value. Then and only then do you make your. Your offer or your ask. Not until then. All right, so I think one of the questions that people in your audience might have, Kwame, is how do they know if it's the right time? Is it the right time to make that ask? Yeah. People are want to Know. Okay, yeah. Did I get all the information? Is this the right time to make an ask? Because quite often people ask up front, the first thing they said, hey, let's make an offer right now. Let's show my service, my value proposition. Whatever you're going to do, you give it to them right away up front. No, no, you have to wait until you understand them, know what they want and know you can offer it. So it's a couple things you can look out for. I'm just going to give you a few. There's several things you can look at, but I just give the audience just a few things to look out for. The first thing is the laughter, the smile. Yeah, you just did it, Kwame. Right? You get that laugh, that laugh, that body language, that smile, that chuckle that says that you've put them in their happy place, Right. That's a sure fire sign that you are hitting on all cylinders, that you're meeting their needs. Right? So look for that. Look for that laugh. That's the second thing that. Another thing you want to look for is when they agree with you. You know, when they say something, you're right on point. Oh, my God. That's. That is. That is exactly right. I never, you know, that is right. Oh, my gosh. So if they're agreeing with you, there's a sure fire sign that you're on board with them. You're right in a way that. And my favorite is the compliment. Right. I always think it's great as a salesperson when you compliment your prospects, your clients, and you just let them know that they're doing a great job. I think that's great. And I think we should do it much more complimenting in life. I don't think we do enough of it. But when your client or the person that you're your counterpart, when they compliment you and they say something like, that was the best advice that I've ever gotten. That is awesome. Oh, my. Where did you come up with that? That is brilliant. That is so great. And as a dad, when my kid says to me, and they call me paper, they don't call me papa. I don't know where that comes from. Paper. But they say, paper, you're the best paper in the world. And I'm like, oh, yeah, right. There's nothing that makes you feel better. So that's when you know when that person on the other side, they're complimenting you, they're smiling, they're in a. You've already put them in a good. They're Agreeing with you. You're telling you. That's right. Sounds like a great time to make your ask when they're on a high.

There is so much good here.

So.

Yeah. So one thing I like, I. I think about the word patience. It always needs a modifier, I think, because patience by itself is very misunderstood, and it could give people license to be passive and just let life happen to them, you know? So I love the fact that you have the modifier of targeted patients. This is great. And I love the fact that you talked about. You don't want to tell them your expertise. You want to show them your expertise through adding value. That's great because you're triggering some reciprocity. You're being genuinely helpful, and if you do it in the right way, they already know you know what you're talking about. You don't need to tell them, which makes it less likely that you're going to be unintentionally arrogant. And then this is. This is great because you did preempt one of my questions. How. How do I know when to make the ask? And really, I would think about some of those signals that you talked about. The smile, the laugh agreement, and then the compliment. Those first two I might classify as, like, synchronicity, right. Where those mirror neurons tend to start to get in. In line. Now we're starting to. It's almost like we're. We're playing. We're dancing to the same music at this point. So we're starting to get more. More in line, which is great. They're warming up and agreeing. So we're becoming more. It's not just two, or should I say six people in this conversation. We're starting to align and become one, which is great. And then the compliment. I tend not to compliment people I don't like. Doug, I don't know about you, but I think that's a really great sign that if. If people are starting to compliment you, that's a good sign that their defenses are going down. Because in difficult conversations in the mediation world, there's a term called reactive devaluation. That's a big term. I call. I call it the. Just because you said it. I don't believe in bias. Right. So if I start to see you as, like, the salesperson who's trying to force something on me that I don't need, I'm going to be very resistant. Oh, yeah, exactly. But a major sign of that wall going down is the fact that they take the time to compliment you when they don't need to where the decorum of the conversation does not dictate that they are the ones giving compliments. I think that's a. That's a brilliant sign, those three things before you make the. I think that's really great advice.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So, yeah. And then what's really. What's really beautiful about this, if you've done that, right, and you're doing that dance just as you described quite often, you won't even have to make the ask. They're going to ask you. That's what's going to happen. Right. They're going to come and ask you. So if you do it right, you don't have to ask at all. Right. So now let's talk about how I use this to get on your podcast.

Yes, let's talk about that.

So this is what I used to targeted patients. So I got to tell you, I've been listening to the podcast for quite a long time. I've listened to hundreds of episodes. I don't even know how many I've listened to over the years. I read the book, you know, Confidence and Conflict. I'm actually angry with you about this book, by the way. Yes. You know, it was so. It was so good. I studied it. I'm highlighting, I'm making notes all through it. And then it's like, I have too many notes. I'll never get track of this. So I had to buy the digital version so I could just search through it digitally. So now I had to buy two copies. So, you know, so this is just. I'm actually, I'm angry with you. Guam now. Not really, but it's great. It's good stuff. So having done that, I knew a lot of your. The things that you. That you speak about. So I was on LinkedIn and you put a post out there and the post was, here's the post. Even the best conflict resolution strategies will fail in a toxic work culture. Agree. That was your post. I don't know if you remember this.

I do remember that one. Yeah.

Yeah. So I actually listened, watched, you know, I didn't answer right away. And I looked probably for maybe 24 hours, and I looked at a bunch of people chiming in and everybody's agreeing with you. You actually put agrees that almost made people want to agree with you. They don't want to get right. So. Which is interesting. So they said, yeah, if it's. The work environment is so toxic, you can't work, you can't resolve conflict in those. And that's what everybody was on that bandwagon. So my response was a little bit different. I gave it some thought. I said, you know what? Here's my response. If we're believers in the philosophy of Kwame and A and I team and listeners to negotiate anything, we should think about the key word here. Negotiate anything in quotes. And that includes a toxic work culture. Aren't you at all curious about the environments and the behaviors? What's causing them? Shouldn't we use the skills of compassionate curiosity just to go deeper and understand those behaviors? You know, using AI and I skills, your co workers can become your advocates in a quest for a better work environment. I say let's just not give up. Let's get what we want. And remember, negotiate anything.

Oh, man. So, so good.

So that. That was my response. That was my response. So. And then here was the beauty of it. You responded back, Doug, first you called me by my name, which is awesome. So you recognize me. That's a good sign, too. I didn't mention that when they call you by your name. I absolutely love this point. You're agreeing with me. You're complimenting me, right? You're doing all that. And then you said, I love that you're a student of the game. Thanks for keeping me accountable. Own teachings. So that was your response. So I know that I've already connected with you and I've done several of those things. Right? So it's just really important to think as I was giving my goal, give you value. That's what I said. I could have chimed in and just agreed with it. Everybody was doing that. That wouldn't have stood out. You wouldn't have noticed me. Do something memorable. Do something exciting that's going to excite them. Get them to think about it. Throughout the buzzwords that I know, I mentioned Kwame, I mentioned A and I team. I mentioned negotiate anything. I. I mentioned compassionate curiosity. All of those are the things that you teach and you know, so you can relate to them. Find the things that they can relate to and then offer them something new. So that's literally what I did. And that was just one of the posts. I did two or three just to get noticed.

That was so good. So good. So fun fact. So of course you saw me smiling. Synchronicity. Hey, hey. Right? So that's good. But I was smiling because I was like, I remember that post because I was thinking, man, I need to post something today. But I don't have very much to say. And you see how lazily the question was. Agree. Question mark, Mommy. That's not a good question. That was a throwaway post. And then your. Your comment. I was like, man, I'm. Now I'm gonna have to work. You're right. You know, so that's why I said, thanks for holding me accountable. Because I'm like, dad wasn't my strongest post. And you called me out because you were 100. Right. So this is. This. It's a great example. Very, very, very good example. Because you're spot on.

Yep.

So.

And that's what's important. And I did this other time. I think the other time. I'm not going to go through the whole post, but I remember you. You had grown your office, and you were trying to negotiate to get out of that because you're still under the lease. So that was the story. And you were trying to, hey, any guy, any advice? And you asked for some advice. And everybody else is giving you negotiation tips, right? And I'm like, this is the dude that wrote the book on negotiation. Everybody's giving him negotiation tips. I said, that's not going to differentiate me at all. So my response was something like, I have a tip that requires the skills of a good lawyer. There's a guy named Kwame Christian. I hear he's decent.

Good. And it did get a smile.

It got a smile, got his attention, right? So I told you to go through the lease agreement and look for a loophole. Look for. Because of boilerplate. I said, look for something like that. I said, sure. You want to negotiate? You want to do that. It's always great to have something in your hip pocket. And then here's the best. Your response. Ha ha. Thanks. You even smiled in your response. You laughed in response. Ha ha. I love this, Doug, you're right. The contract was boilerplate. I have my homework to do. So then. So guess what? I got the laugh. I love this. You wrote love in all caps. I love this. Doug called me by my name. You got it right. So now I am connecting. Feel like kindred spirits. We're all in the same thing. And that's what you want to do with your clients. That's what you want to do with your customers. That's what you want to do with your significant other. That's how you want all of your relationships to be. Imagine a world where everybody did this, and we complimented each other. We were curious about each other, and we're really helping each other. I mean, it's. It's great. So anyway, after this, I did that, maybe two or three. I'm not going to go through any more posts. But those are a couple of things that I did to you. Show. Show my. How I can patiently target what I wanted to do. And my goal was to be on this podcast. And really, I thought I set that goal for myself at the beginning of the year 2022. And I was thinking, well, maybe in a year from now, I'll be on the podcast. Well, four and a half months later, I get a phone, I get an email from your. From Casey Marie, your chief of staff. And she says, join us as a guest expert. And I'm thinking, expert. Ooh, he thinks I'm an expert. So it works. So really, just think about it. Just give. I didn't want anything. In the back of my head, I knew I wanted to be on there. And one of the things that Kwame says all the time on your podcast is that you say, hey, my friend, welcome me. I said, you know, at the end of this thing, I want Kwame to call me his friend. Yes.

Oh, man. Doug, you are 100% my friend. Friend. My goodness. This is so good. This is.

I mean, let me.

Let me show you my. My iPad here. I got all these notes. Look at all these notes I took here just from. From this. This is crazy. So I. I'm pumped. I mean, listeners, I. I got a ton out of this. I. I know you did, too, Doug. I know that my other podcast guest is like, where is Kwame? So I have to rap now. But.

Okay, yeah, Doug, this is.

This is great. But before you go, make sure you let the listeners know again, how they can get in touch with you and how they can work with you, too.

Yeah, absolutely. The easiest way to get in touch with me, you can probably reach out to me on LinkedIn at Simple Real Estate Success, or Doug Owens. You can reach me either one of those. My YouTube channel, Simple Real Estate Success, or you can email me at doug o. @simplerealestatesuccess.com and I'll be happy to talk with you about it. And, hey, have better conversations and make the world a better place.

I love it. Doug, my friend. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. This is great. Thank you.

All right, thanks, Kwame.

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