Linkedin Live Event: Unmute Yourself with Nancy Medoff

But hey, here we are. We're live. We are live now. Live. Live. I see the timer in the top left, so we're good. But let's let the listeners tell us if we are in fact live. The comments are there, and I know there's a bit of a delay, so there's probably about 30 second delay. What I'd like you all to do is just drop in the comments, let us know that this live is working because we don't do lives very often. So have we successfully gone live? That'll be help. Just put that in the comments, Let us know if you could see us, and we'll give you all. Let's do about two minutes of playful banter, Nancy.

Oh, I like playful banter. How about while I fix my light? Let's do that.

There you go. Hey, Kita, what's up? Jennifer's here.

Oh, I can see people now too.

This is good. This is good.

Yeah, baby.

Hey. So this is great. This we. We've successfully handled one hurdle. This is good. So. Hey, Elena. This is great. Cool. So how about you all let us know where you're. Where you're coming in from. Which part of the world?

Oh, this is funny. Someone's ripping on your turtleneck.

I know. This is Kita, my coach, My business coach. The reason I am where I am, you know. So, yes, I put on my. My business turtleneck today.

So, Kita, I have a funny story. When I was leading my. A large sales team, when. When my hair would be up in a bun, at the end of the day, they would be like, oh, don't. No, Nancy's. Nancy's in focus mode. It was always the button. I think there might be some of my former sales team on the line. So make a comment if that's true. Because it's. They. It was so funny. It was so funny.

Everybody has their tells, right?

They'd be like, I. I'd say, why didn't you ask me? They'd say, well, I went in your office, but your hair was in a bun.

Wow. Oh. So that was a serious tell.

Kind of funny.

That's awesome. So we have Seattle, Texas, Michigan, Oregon, Akron. Hey, Tim, what up? And Elena's from Tampa. Daytona Beach. Yeah. Panama said, oh, in Panama. Awesome. Casey Marie from Jamaica. This is great. Hey, we have a. We have an international audience here.

I mean, are you surprised? Chloe? Are you surprised?

Listen, it takes me a while. I'm always surprised. I'm like, oh, my gosh. People listen. Well, this is great. Ooh. In tdot. Toronto. This is cool. We got everybody. Great. Well, we're at 1232. Let's go ahead and get started. So, everybody, this is a live recording of Negotiate Anything, the first in history, something that I've been scared to do for years. So, Nancy, thank you for joining us and helping me to take this plunge. So how about we just start off by getting to know you a little bit. So tell us about yourself and what you do.

Sure. My name is Nancy Madoff and I left about five years ago. I left a successful corporate sales career to take my mission on the road to empower women to speak up and stand out. So that has led to me becoming a global keynote speaker. I wrote a best selling book called Unmute Yourself and Speak up to Stand Out. Ironically, I am a top 25% podcaster. The name of my podcast is Unmute Yourself the Podcast. So basically, I'm on a mission to make sure that women everywhere show up with clarity, confidence, and that they are walking into the room like they own them. That's my goal. That's why I'm here. And I am super pumped to be here with you, Kwame. Again, we had a great time the last time we recorded a podcast. It was really fun and I'm excited that we are live. And I look forward to the comments in the chat.

Absolutely. This is great. And so listeners, keep on sharing in the comments because you're going to be part of this conversation too. And Nancy, before we actually set the stage, can you tell the listeners about your first time on Negotiate Anything and about your episodes?

So glad you brought this up. Sorry. When you go live, you have issues. So the first time I was on Negotiate Anything, Kwame and I talked about the three, the three principles of persuasive communication. And one of the things that we ended up talking about is when you're being spoken over. So particularly for females, when you're being spoken over in a meeting or if there is someone who's trying to dominate the conversation. So, I mean, ask the women that are in the chat, throw a note in there if that's ever happened to you. And then I want it, and I want everybody to see everybody else and see the chat light up. Hi, Lori. Pearl. I see you. I miss you. So we were talking about how to overcome when somebody's speaking over you. And Kwame decided that he wanted to immediately do a live role play where he played Steam the steamroller. And he consistently interrupted me, talked over me, tried to take my ideas, basically said in the roleplay, no, no, I Know it's your idea, but I would like to position it as mine and put me on the spot for this role play. And it was, as we say in Boston, wicked fun. And it was also, you know, it was good for me to, to be on the receiving end of that because I'm not as much anymore. And it was, it was super fun.

This was, it was a blast for me. You know, I like being kind of insensitive and aggressive from time to time in controlled areas, you know, so this was fun because I tried to give you my worst and you kept on hand it. So I'm like, man, I need to turn it up a little bit. What, what more can I do? What more can I say? Oh, that's a good idea. I'm gonna take that, Nancy, what you gonna do? And you handled it. You handled all of it. So, yeah, we'll, we'll put links to those episodes too, because they were fun but also informative. So we, we do the sparring session where you actually get to see the role play. But then we also did a, like, almost like an ESPN breakdown. Well, you did this. I tried to do that. And it was really fun. So you, you crushed it. So kudos again.

Thank you.

Yeah. So everybody, as you all know, tomorrow is International Women's Day. And so today we're here to talk about women in negotiation and also to discuss the, the gender pay gap. Their Pew Research center came out with some new statistics about that which are quite troubling. And so we want to think about what we can do as advocates and allies to address that. So we want to make sure that you feel informed and confident and, and feel as though you have a roadmap on what you can move things forward in your own way. And Nancy, I know you have some statistics that you'd like to share, and I think that'll be a good place for us to start.

Sure. You know, one of the areas I like talking about the most and the least is the gender pay gap. So right now we're still looking at, and we've made progress. Right now we're still looking at about 17 to 18% less that women in America are taking home versus their male colleagues. So, you know, the number globally, it's just, it varies. It's, it's, it always hovers somewhere around that. And this is highly concerning. So for kicks, because this is what I do, one day I decided to take the current wage gap and times it and compound it over a 40 year career. So I compounded it. I time you know, I did all the math and, and the results are staggering. So I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm actually going to ask you all in the comments, what do you think is the career lifetime gender pay gap? Just throw some numbers in the comments and I'll kill time while you're doing that or we, or I'll kind of talk about something else. And the reason why I did this is because when you look at, when you look at a number like $0.83 on the dollar or 18% less or whatever the case may be, that sounds bad. And it's bad. That's not good. But it doesn't sound that bad. It doesn't sound nearly as bad as what I'm about to drop on you all. And that is that over a career lifetime, a Caucasian female will leave about. I'm seeing a lot of numbers in the chat now. Will leave about $430,000 on the table. And that number goes up to 750,000. For a woman of color and a Latina woman, that number is a million dollars. Now. Now, I did this last year, and I'm going to let that sit for a minute. For a minute. $1 million. $1 million. So for the women that are on this call or listening to this podcast, $1 million. That is unacceptable to me. It's unacceptable. And this is why I've made it part of my life's mission to help, to help women to speak up and advocate for themselves. Because oftentimes, oftentimes women aren't asking for it. They're not. So I'm going to pause for a minute because I get really heated about this. I don't know if you could tell I'm hot.

But you have every right to be. It's a serious issue. And when you think about it, a million dollars over the course of your lifetime is substantial. But then when we think about the opportunity cost of compound interest, if you were to put that million dollars in the market with those types of returns we're talking about, it's a multimillion dollar loss. But then if we strip that away, let's stop talking about money and talk about other things that we care about. A lot of times we use our money to get time, and so that's time not spent with our family. We use our money to alleviate stress. That's stress that we did not have to have. Right? And so when you really dig beneath the numbers, it is a lot more staggering and disturbing than it originally seems. So this is really, really important for us to address.

Absolutely. And I love that way of looking at it and at the opportunity cost. What does that mean for your children? What could that mean for your lifestyle? What could that mean for your legacy? What could. That's a really, really good point. And this is why it's. We all need to fix it together. And it's not just the hiring managers, and it's not just the companies. It's us. It's the women as well. We need to feel more confident. And if we don't feel confident, we need to put courage before confidence to ask for what we know we deserve.

Yeah, yeah. And you see, somebody said, I could retire sooner with $1 million. Yes, absolutely. Right. So we're losing a lot. And, Nancy, I think it's really interesting that you started with confidence, and I like that you started there, too, because a lot of people will say, okay, well, what do we need to do? Okay, we can talk about that. But before we talk about that, we have to address confidence. What made you say confidence first?

Well, everything I do is around confidence. So I think that the misunderstanding out there is that women lack confidence and men don't. So women oftentimes lack confidence when men don't. Women oftentimes lack confidence at the same time men do. The difference is men will not be confident, and they will do the thing anyway, whatever it is. And this is why I don't like the term imposter syndrome. I want to be very clear. I realize that this is a true feeling, that people feel like imposters, men feel like imposters. Tom Hanks, David Bowie, Charles Schulz, all of them have said, I feel like an imposter. The difference is that the men will take action anyway. So it's when, as women, our lack of confidence causes us to not do the thing that it becomes very, very troublesome.

That is such an important distinction, because essentially what we're saying is that sometimes we wait for a feeling, so a feeling of comfort or whatever it happens to be, and then we say, okay, that's a signal that I can actually do what I need to do. But with courage, you don't wait for that feeling. You say, all right, I feel this, but I'm still going to take that step. And I think that's a really important step because it starts to create more confidence, because you take that courageous step even though you don't feel confident. And then your successes that you build from that start to produce more confidence. And confidence is a feeling that inspires you to take more action, which allows you to do more of these types of things. So it builds. And so can you go a bit deeper into the benefit or the necessity of courage to get this ball rolling?

Yeah, I mean, I think the difference. And, you know, I encourage people to throw. Keep throwing comments in the chat. The difference is that again. Okay, so I'll tell you. I will tell you. When the dime dropped on me, I was having breakfast. And I really hope he sees this. I was having breakfast. I might get emotional, actually. I was having breakfast with a friend who is an EVP of a very large hotel company in New York. I came from the hotel business, and it was right after I left my career with Marriott and I was starting up my business. And he said, so tell me about your training programs. What do you do? And I said, well, you know, I teach women how to be more confident, how to overcome imposter syndrome. And we were sitting, having breakfast, and he got this little smirk on his face. And we finished. You know, I finished my statement, and he said. I said, you know, why are you smirking at me? What's going on now? This man is a. Has a very big job in Manhattan, larger than life, you know, lights up everywhere he goes. And he said, you know, Nancy, men feel it, too. And I didn't know what to say, and I said, what do you mean that men feel it, too? And he was leaving and going into another meeting, and he said, you don't think I'm walking into that meeting thinking that they all know I'm a fraud? You don't. Because he was new in the position. He said, you don't think I'm walking into that meeting feeling like, how did I even get here? I don't deserve to be? He said, of course I do. Men feel it, too. And that got me started on really researching this more and saying to myself, wow, Again, the difference is they take the step. They don't let it hold them back.

Now you see me smirking, too, because I realize I think about my imposter syndrome like a. Like a character in my story. It's like, I'm driving on this. On this road, and the imposter syndrome's in the backseat just, you know, throwing Skittles at me like, hey, hey, you can't do it. Who said you could do this? You shouldn't be able to do this. And so I think it's one of the biggest cosmic jokes out there that we think we can get to a point where we can overcome that. And I've just kind of come to the Conclusion that it's. And it's my annoying friend that I just laugh at. It's like, okay, I see you. I feel you. Yeah, my heart rate's elevating. Yeah. I might be stuttering at the beginning of this speech, but I'll get over it. This is just the game we play. And I think it's really important for people to understand, like, that feeling will always be there. To a certain extent, at least in my experience, it always is. But that does not mean that we can't do what we need to do to get what we deserve to get.

100%. And I'm so glad you brought that up. People are blown away when I say I get a little nervous before. Every time. Before I get on a big stage, every time, a little nervous. You know, I get a little nervous. But. But the difference is I've learned how to take that nervous energy and turn it into excited energy. I know that it's a feeling. It's a feeling. And because of the way we have all processed imposter syndrome, I have seen hundreds of women wrap it up in a little bow and say, I have this syndrome, so I can't do this. I have the syndrome, and it's. And it's holding me back. Yes, you. You lack confidence, and, yes, you have this feeling. Now let's talk about the feeling and how to overcome the feeling. Like. Like you do and like I do. It really is that simple? It is, yeah.

It's simple, but it's not easy. And it's that not easy part that people often struggle with, because now they're saying, okay, well, this is kind of. Kind of empowering, almost empowering. So I'm. Everybody experiences this. I guess there's nothing wrong with me. It's still tough to take that step. So if we're helping people to understand what it takes to then take that next step and actually take action, how would you coach somebody through that?

That's a great question. So how would I coach someone through overcoming imposter feeling? Is that what you're asking? Yeah. So, you know, Lori just put a great comment note in the comments, and it says, thanks for sharing the story. The tricky thing is that if and when men step up with that courage and confidence, even if they're bluffing, they don't really have the confidence. It can be intimidating to try to match it or stand up to it. So what I would say, that's a great. Totally supports what Kwame was just asking. What I was saying is you do.

You.

You do it the way you do, you. You don't have to match their confidence or their courage. You don't have to match their bravado. You don't have to come in, like the, you know, like the loudest guy in the room or whatever. You simply need. So. So here's how I do it. There's three Rs for when. For when I need to overcome the feeling. Okay, can we all agree to stop calling it a syndrome? If you all could help me spread that message, I would be incredibly grateful. So, to overcome imposter feeling, I recall. I recall a time when I was nervous like this, and I nailed it anyway. So for me, that's when I'm speaking in front of a group. I'll recall and I will remember after the session, people coming up to me and all of the great feedback I got. So that's one thing I'll do. I'll remember, and I will do this in my hotel room. Nancy, It's a feeling, not a fact. It's a feeling, not a fact. I will say that depending on how nervous I am, and then I'll reframe. And this is my favorite. So my favorite is to reframe. And I will reframe that nervous energy into excited energy. And for people, when you're giving a presentation, and, Kwame, I'd love to hear what you think about this. When you're giving a presentation, your energy is going to impact the presentation. So if I have contagious energy or I have excited energy, that is going to affect the success of my program, and it's hopefully going to affect the attendees. It is not easy to get a thousand people excited about imposter feeling, but that's not easy. But I take all of that energy and I say, okay, I can either walk, I can either be nervous, or I can be excited. Today, I choose excited, and I've done it so much that it works, and then I'm excited. And people say, how do you have such energy? And how can you be. So your contagious energy and your contagious excitement, Biggest compliment in the world. What they don't know is that two minutes beforehand I was backstage saying, okay, this is a new topic. Somebody's going to throw a question at you, you're not going to have an answer for. Someone's going to challenge you, which never happens. And, you know, that's. So that's what I've learned to do over the years, so that it just becomes easier for me.

So much that I love about this, first of all, the sign of a brilliant insight is that it seems obvious in hind insight. And changing it from imposter syndrome to imposter feeling is so powerful, just like any other feeling. I mean, think about it. Think about this. Imagine if we called it imposter disease. Wouldn't that change the way that you, you know, experience that? Right. So this I'm sold imposter feeling never syndrome. That's money. That's really good. The other, the, the other thing that you talk about, the, the recall and remember and reframe. So powerful. So in psychology, we would call that essentially cognitive reappra. And so what you do is you take that feeling and then you change the narrative around that feeling. So imagine if you're walking in the grocery store and you happen upon a celebrity, like you see Rihanna in the grocery store, you'll be like, why are you shopping for yourself? Number one. And number two, you'd probably. Your heart would start to elevate, you would start to feel something in your body. You might start to, like, shake, almost start to sweat. But then imagine if you're walking through a haunted house. You know, your heart rate would elevate. You might start to sweat a little, you start to shake. Right. The body has a limited amount of ways that it can experience feelings. And the difference between fear and excitement is your interpretation. And so for me, before speaking, I do the same thing. The fact that my body is responding in this way is that it is ramping up to protect itself and ramping up to perform. This is good. I wouldn't want to have it any other way. And so, Nancy, just like you, when I'm experiencing an imposter feeling, sometimes before a speech, you'll see me kind of sitting back, just kind of smiling. And the reason I'm smiling is not because I'm overly confident. It's I'm laughing at my imposter feeling. Imposter feeling in the back seat, telling me to be afraid. And I'm looking at the person reading my bio just in awe, saying, how are they speaking so eloquently in front of so many people? Aren't they scared? There. There's so many people here, they're reading my bio. I'm about to be up there for 90 minutes, you know, and so it. It doesn't go away. And if you can turn it into a joke and you realize, oh, this is should be feeling, then you can still perform in spite of those feelings.

Exactly, exactly. Honor them. Overcome them. Honor them and deal with them. Maybe you don't overcome them. And one of the ways to do that is to, is to replace the lack of confidence with courage. It really is that simple.

Absolutely. And one of the things that we talked about last week was not just confidence, but also the self fulfilling prophecies that we can create for ourselves with some of the mindsets that we carry in into these conversations. So can you go a little bit deeper onto mindset and how that impacts the way that we interact with people?

Sure. This is, I might get emotional again. It's, you know, I'm doing many keynotes this week from International Women's Day for Internet. And one of the, one of the things I do is they're virtual and I ask women in the chat and I'm actually going to do it right now. I'm going to ask women to tell me about a time or put a time, put something in there if you're comfortable. When you were disparaged for speaking up. When you were told you were too much. When you were told you were too bossy. When you were told to be a good girl. When you were told don't let him know you're better at him than that. Let him, let him take charge. When you were told children should be seen and not heard. When you were told you're too much. I think I said that already. When you were told you were a lot. When you were told you were ambitious. I mean, I could go on and on and on and I know there's a delay. I guarantee you, Kwame, in a minute, this, this comments is gonna light up with women, specifically women saying, yes, I've been told this, I've been told that. This. I've been told this, I've been told this. Here they come all the time. So, so you're. One of the ways to deal with this is to understand. And one of the reasons I do this is so that women understand that all women, we all feel this. I don't care who it is. I don't care if it's Rihanna, Jane Fonda, Lady Gaga, JLo, Marilyn Monroe, whoever. All women are socialized to make themselves smaller for whatever reason. And as a result, all women carry that baggage with them. They carry the baggage with them. I have a slide that I, that I use for my keynote. It's a big, Remember the big plastic Samsonite suitcases? You know, the big hard, hard case suitcases with the stickers. People used to put the stickers on them. You know, you're too much. You need to tone it down. You're aggressive, you're ambitious and Ambitious. Not being a compliment. She's too loud. Tone it down, you know, whatever the case may be. And nada, nada. I see you. And I agree. Hundreds of thousands of women everywhere. So I'm going on a little bit of a rampage. My tangent, I think my point is understanding that everybody feels it. All women. All women. Again, I don't care who it is. You can look at the most successful woman in the boardroom. I guarantee you, someone somewhere made her feel less than and she still thinks about it. Guaranteed.

Yeah, this is. This is powerful. This is heavy. Because it has an impact, all of these things. Even though, let's say one of these instances somebody says something, it takes them 12 seconds to say that thing. But then it can carry. You can carry that with you for decades. For decades. And that statement can not only carry you carry it with you, but it impacts the way that you interact with the world. And as a result, it impacts the way that the world interacts with you. And so for those women and anybody, but let's focus on women right now who are listening to this and hearing that and saying, yes, this is me. I've experienced this. How do they start to change their mindset and become more comfortable overcoming this?

So to change your mindset, the first step is to understand that everybody feels the same way. You're not. You're not different. And again, I'm going to speak about women here. Understand that all women feel that way. And there is a camaraderie in that. There really is. It's okay. I'm not the only one. You know your mindset. So the theme for this week is embracing equity. And one of the areas I'm speaking about is bias. A lot of different bias. One bias that you can make work for you here is confirmation bias. So confirmation bias can either be negative or positive. And this is, you know, just really quickly. It's when you will seek people, behaviors, data, facts to support your opinion. So if you can shift your mindset and, and. And frame it as, yes, I'm less confident, but that's okay. It's not a big deal. It just is. There's no value on that doesn't matter. That doesn't mean it's going to hold me back in this particular situation, I'm a little less confident. Okay, that just ends. So when, when you believe that you will find, you will put yourselves in situations to support that, so you'll put yourself out there more and you will surround yourself with other people who, who support this. That, yes, it's a Feeling. But yes, I deserve to be. And yes, I deserve to be here. And you will subconsciously, if you, if you act as if it will be, you will unconsciously put your safe, put yourself into a situation where it is.

I love this. Yeah, this is great. Because essentially what we're doing is we're creating a positive, self fulfilling prophecy, more or less. Right. And it starts with the mind and how we start to how we see ourselves and how we see these situations. And I think we have to increase our self awareness and get real with ourselves to say, oh yeah, I am feeling this and that's okay. And I think if we try to ignore it and push it away, we're, we're not availing ourselves to some of the best information we could possibly get. This is data about ourselves. I want to learn about me. I want to know how I'm thinking because I need to know if my thoughts and my approach and my mindsets are leading me in the right direction or they're leading me in the wrong direction. So first we have to figure out where we are currently. That's the self awareness piece. And then we can start to shift our mindsets appropriately so we're more empowered and more likely to take the action that needs to happen in order for us to get what we want.

Yeah. I want to add something that Kwame, because Casey just put a note in the, in the chat that I want to address and it ties to this. So. And it's understanding you might have your own bias about what confidence is means. So Casey just put a note in the, in the, in the chat that she was told she was too confident when at 12 years old, she was told she was too confident. First of all, I don't even know what to say to that. So thank you, Casey, for sharing that. I don't know. I don't know why anybody would tell anybody they're too confident, but. Okay, so what, what does that do to her? How does, and it depends on who said it to her and what the situation was. Is there somewhere in the back of Casey's mind that she thinks there is such a thing as being too confident? And, you know, perhaps there is. That's. That's another episode, you know, that's being overly confident and that. But that's different. This is. Confidence is good. And again, women, we have been told our whole life that speaking up, or we've been told many times, speaking up is bad, you're too ambitious. Everything that we just covered, we have to, we have to let go of that. And we have to replace that with that's not true. Or that or confidence is a good thing. So again, I know we can't get into it too much with Casey, that I was told that I was too confident. And you know what? Good. Because at a young age, I learned how to be confident. I say good and to turn it around and not put a valid. Either not put value on it or put the value on it. That's going to serve you.

Absolutely. I can't get over that one. It's like, hey, you know what, Nancy? You're a little bit too awesome. Okay. Is that a compliment? Right? How is two. Anyways, yeah, we could go off on a tangent there, but yeah, sorry, can.

I jump in one more time? Because this is. This is. So I have a little granddaughter. She's five years old. She's adorable. She's the best. And she's very. She advocates for herself a lot. And she likes to take control. And people that are very close to her will say, stop being bossy. Her name's Ava. They'll say, ava, stop being bossy. Stop being bossy. And I will every time come in and say, ava, maybe you want to tone it down a little bit. Not everybody is as strong of a leader as you are. So maybe you take a step back and let some other people take the lead. And they all look at me like I'm crazy. All the adults look at me like I'm crazy. And, And I stand by that. I, you know, she's not bossy. Yes, she's. Yes, she is telling people what to do. But she's five years old. Five years old. And if people are telling her at five years old that she's too bossy. No, I will. Not on my watch. Not on my watch. Nope.

Yeah, and thank you for doing that. And I think this is a great example of what allyship looks like. Like, it might not seem big, but this is massive because you can think about. Let's fast forward 20 years. Your granddaughter at 25. Like, she'll remember these times. And next time, when she hears. When the executive workplace, when she hears somebody say, you're too bossy, she's going to say, I know what that means. And it tells me I'm on the right track. So this is a great example for everybody to understand. Like, hey, this is an example of allyship. It's small, but it means a lot.

Absolutely.

Yeah. This is great. And I'm seeing so many amazing comments coming in. I think this would be cool to just open it up. And have the listeners talk directly to you. Let's see.

There's some good questions in there for you, too, Kwame. I mean, I think they're here for you, too. I mean, I think maybe.

Maybe. I don't know. Who knows? But I see Patrick's question. I think this. This. This could be extrapolated, too. So wondering what you've done when your equipment fails or content fails in front of a large audience. This has happened to me a few times. How did you manage that? Yeah. And I think this is a great example. We could extrapolate it. Just in general, you have to laugh at that. It's actually kind of hilarious because. Let's do. And it requires perspective. So here's a cool little comedy equation. Pain plus distance equals comedy. Right? So pain plus distance equals comedy. So if something bad happens to somebody else. It didn't happen to me.

Ha.

That's funny. Okay. Or something happened to me, but it was many years ago. Ha. That's funny. But if something bad is currently happening to me, not funny. Pain right now, not funny. But if I can take a step back and kind of look at it from the future. Looking back, it's kind of hilarious that my microphone doesn't work. Kind of hilarious that this PowerPoint doesn't work. And I need to kind of freestyle. And everybody in the audience can empathize with the fact that this situation is not good. I wonder how he's going to handle it. I hope he doesn't kind of freak out and fail, because that's awkward for everybody. I think one of the things you have to realize is that everybody watching you on stage wants you to succeed. I don't know if you've ever seen somebody just kind of fall apart on stage, but it is painful for everybody involved. And so if you can bring some levity into the conversation and just kind of laugh at the fact that your microphone doesn't work, the slides don't work. Whatever it happens to be, I think it calms everybody down, and it actually helps people to like you more because they say, oh, this person's. This person is just like me. Bad things happen. And it's empowering for them to see you succeed, even though bad things happen, too. And I'm sure that's happened to you too, Nancy. So I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Everything you just said is exactly what I would have said. You know, when I first started speaking, I would remind myself, people. People want to hear what you have to say. They invited you to come in here. They Wouldn't. It's not like you're making people listen to you. They signed up for the session. They want to hear what you have to hear. And then when. And if there is a fail. I just had one in December. The AV didn't work at all. It was fine. It was a distraction, and I knew it would work eventually. And it just. It makes you more real, more approachable, more relatable. Definitely more relatable. And you know what? I'm trying to think. I just use this as an example with somebody. I'm not gonna remember what it was, but I said, this makes you more relatable. Of course you should. Of course. This is not a big deal. And I can't remember what it was, but. Yeah. So everything you just said, totally agree with. And just know that it's gonna happen. Like, it's gonna happen.

Yeah, absolutely. I think the worst part is, like, living in fear of it happening, because that fear doesn't feel good, and then it doesn't prepare you when it actually happens. So there's no practical value to that fear. You just have to say, listen, bad things will happen from time to time, but I have to have confidence in my skills to be able to navigate it. And if I don't, then I learn how to navigate it for the next time, because I can't avoid it. You know, it's a learning opportunity. Neta has a really good point. She says, I know Kwame will feel me on this, but children of first generation parents probably didn't have. Did not have parents who made them feel confident. So we have to rework and reframe what we were taught as a child. Yeah. And like, for me, for those who don't know, I'm a first generation Caribbean American. And so when you have immigrant parents, they push very hard. And typically, or in many cases, it's a. You're coming from a society where there. It's. It's very hierarchical, and there's a lot of respect and deference given to the older generation. And so we've been taught at a young age to be compliant. And that can have, you know, pretty significant consequences when it comes to making decisions and navigating your career in a way that's authentic and works for you. But also during these difficult conversations, it can be really tough because you feel as though you need to be deferential to authority regardless of whether or not the authority is acting in the right way. Right. So it makes it tough for you to, using the words of Nancy Medoff, unmute yourself and speak up and stand out. So, Nancy, how would you address this?

You know, I'm so glad neda brought that up and thank you for correcting me on how to pronounce her name. So I, I, I think that, I think that this is unique. The situation, the circumstances are unique. Having parents who did not make you feel confident is not at all unique. So, you know, if, if you're lucky and you were born and raised by. If you were born into and raised by parents who believed in you and supported you. And I mean, some of you may be like, what do you mean, your parents? You know, many of us bring our own issues wherever we go. So I think my point here is regardless of where you came from, there, I guarantee you there's something that happened to you when you were growing up that really shook your confidence. Something somewhere could have been at school, could have been your parents, could have been again, could have been first generation and everything that comes with that could be the different cultural nuances. Absolutely. Particularly for women, but also for men. And I think that at the end of the day, we all have something that we can remember or choose not to remember that impacted our self esteem, impacted our self worth, and impacted our ability to be naturally confident. And it's recognizing that and, you know, not letting it bring you down, just understanding, oh, again, there's no value on this. This is why sometimes this is how I feel and I know that I need to work a little harder to overcome it and work on the skill. Confidence is a skill. Like it's like anything. It's like math. It's like science. It is a skill and you can train yourself to be more confident.

Well said. And Nancy, I'd love to get your perspective on this question from Andy. What kind of advice do you have for when someone asks you to explain something but then turns around and doesn't let you explain it?

Well, the first thing I would do, Andy, is suggest that you go back to the steam, the steamroller episode, sparring session of negotiate anything, when kwame did exactly that to me live. So I think what you're saying, Patrick, is that I think it was. Oh, Andy, sorry. It's somebody asked you to explain something but then doesn't let you explain it. So there's a few things you can do. 1. So when this happens to me, and it happens often, the first thing I do is think about, is it worth it? Like, is this worth it? Is this worth my mental energy right now? How well do I know this person? Am I ever going to see them again. And how important is this point? And if the, if it's not, if they're not, if I don't know them well, I'm not going to see them again and it's not that important, I will probably blow it off. Frankly. It happens to me so often that I'm spoken, that I'm spoken over or ignored or whatever the case may be. I just don't let it faze me. If it is a situation where it's important, then I will use some of the skills and tactics that I've developed over the years. So it could be in this case, when they don't let you explain it and I need to know a little bit more about the situation. I would probably say perhaps I misunderstood. Did you want me to explain this now or did you want me to come back later or so? Or something along the lines of I know you just asked me to explain this. I'm not sure you're ready for the explanation. Do you want to talk about this now? It really depends on the situation. And the first thing is to try not to be emotional and understand that when people do things like that, it's about them and not you. It's rarely about you and almost always about them. And to just again, decide if it's worth it and politely and kindly advocate. Politely, clear and kind, just like setting boundaries. Clear and kind. Clearly and kindly advocate for yourself. That's all you can do. And then if they don't want to hear it, there's nothing you can do. Then it's up to you to decide how much energy you spend on it.

Yeah, I love this response. And of course, Nancy, you're the expert here today, so I wanted to have you have first shot at this. And secondly, I knew you've been through it because I put you through it. So I knew you had the answer. So we'll drop a link so everybody can see those episodes because you handled it exceptionally well and you brought in a point that I don't want people to overlook. And really it comes down to, I would describe it as power, need and leverage. Right. Because you said I need to determine how important this conversation is to me and whether or not I want to continue to engage. This is really important because you have information. A lot of times you're explaining things for the benefit of other people and this is something that you're doing for their well being. And if they don't want to listen, then you don't need to try to force yourself to give them something that they clearly don't want. It's like, if you want this from me, then you're going to have to give me the respect that I believe that I deserve and you're going to listen. But if you're not ready to listen, then I don't really need to have this conversation. I think that's powerful because what you're doing is you're training people to say, there's going to be a quality of conversation that I'm here for, and if it dips below this level of conversation, then I'm not interested. And so it forces people to step their game up in order to meet your level of respect in the conversation. The other thing is too something that I like to do is I like to pause the conversation and say, hey, before we continue, I just want to get an idea. What do you think I'm trying to say? Or what do you think my point is? And what I want to do is I want to. I want them to expose their ignorance to themselves. I want them to know that they did not listen or else you would have been able to explain it to me. And so I give them the benefit. I let them save face by not saying, ha, you weren't listening. After they failed to give a summary, which I know they wouldn't be able to do, I say, oh, you know what? Maybe I didn't do a good job of explaining. Would you like me to explain it now? And then they're like, yeah, yeah, I'll explain it. Right. And so it's like a quiz. We're going to pause this conversation. I'm going to quiz you. I know you don't know what I'm trying to say because I know you weren't listening, but I don't think you know that you weren't listening. So I'm going to inject a little bit of humility by giving you a quiz. You'll fail that quiz, and now you'll have the requisite humility to listen to me in the way that you need to listen to me. So those are the little additions that I'd make to love it.

I. That's. I'm going to try that.

Cool, cool, cool, cool. Great. And we see. Tim. What's up, Mentee? Good to see you. What are some of the core principles that are key to creating a space in your company where people in your work environment feel safe to speak up and stand out? Oh, this is good. Yes, Nancy, let's hear what you think.

Well, if I could solve that, I'd be sitting on my Yacht in the Caribbean. See my thing there? So I think, I think what you're asking is how can we make sure that people feel comfortable speaking up? I think that's what's being asked. So what I would do if I was building a culture, right? It's culture. It's by building your culture. And that starts at the top. It does start at the top. So I would say rewarding, you know, rewarding and recognizing when people share ideas, instilling that, that those values in your culture of no idea is a bad idea. I would add. And this is, this is new. This, this is a new topic. I'm hot on providing skills training for people who don't speak up. This is, this is, this is newer in my evolution, in this career path that I took of empowering women to speak up and being a confidence coach. It's, what are you doing in your company? Knowing that women more oftentimes than not will let their lack of confidence. I'm sorry, more oftentimes than men, women will allow their lack of competent confidence to stop them from speaking. What kind of training are you giving to these women? How are you training them? We all know, or most of us know, that there's a huge gap. There's a huge gap. So what kinds of training are you giving women? Around confidence and around speaking up and how to articulate your value and how to advocate for yourself and how to be persuasive. You know, the same thing goes with, goes for human resources. And I say this knowing that it's going to be controversial if I hear one more person in human resource or people management tell me that they're appalled at the gender wage gap. Okay, you are human resources. Who is offering the salaries in the first place that the women aren't then negotiating so that they're getting 18% less than the men. What are we as a company doing? What are we as the leadership team doing? What are we as the hiring manager doing? Listen, I run a business. I worked for a huge multinational company, global company, for years. I get it. I get how it works. I get the profit and loss. I would suggest that more companies can put their money where their mouth is, their money and their resources and their time and their values, and get women the training that they need to advocate for themselves.

This is so good. And I'm just watching the comments. There's so many good ones coming through. I want to touch on this one. What do you do when you're presenting and somebody restates what you state in exactly the same way, how do you address it? Nancy? Have you ever had this happen to you?

Have I ever had it happen? So I'll tell you an interesting story. Yes, that's actually. That's not why I left corporate America, but it's pretty close. Happens all the time. So there's actually a term for it. And I don't want this to get into male bashing, because sometimes it's women that do it. More often than not, though statistically proven, it's men. So if somebody repeats my idea or restates it exactly as my idea. So there's a few things I'll do. The first thing, and it depends on where you are, how comfortable you are. All of this depends on the situation. The first thing I'll do is say something along the lines of, you know. You know, Kwame, that's a great point. I just want to. Let's say it's. Let's say it's remote, right? You're calling into a meeting, Kwame, That's a great. That's a great point. I just want to make sure that you all can hear me, because I just said that, and I'm not sure you heard me. Like, am I on mute? Right. Okay, great.

No, that's good.

No. No harm, no foul. If it's not a virtual meeting, you know, I might say something like, I'm so glad you brought that up, Kwame. As I stated earlier, this is a really important idea, or, this is a really important subject. Now, I know you have to be careful how you say it. I know that because you. You don't want to come across as strident or pushy or rude. Again, I would go back and say something like, I'm so Steve. I'm Steve the Steamroller. I'm so glad you brought that up. I want to make sure everyone's clear that when I said it earlier, what I meant was xyz. I think Steve might mean something different. Steve, did you mean something different with a smile? Right? And then the last suggestion I have, and I can't even believe I'm saying this, so this just happened to me. I was. I was going on a trip. I was a guest on a trip in Mexico. The. There was a car that came to pick us up at the airport, and there was a couple, two people in the front and myself and my husband in the back. I didn't. We didn't know the couple. And it was my husband's trip for a change. Usually he comes along with me. So anyway, it was a conference, and there was a lot of People in the same industry as him. So we're having a conversation about his industry and what he does. And the man in the front seat said, oh, so you're in this business, blah, blah, blah. And I said, I said, yes, actually, Danny. Danny was the first one in his industry to come up with a recurring revenue model, which is why the private equity companies are so sweet on, on his industry. It's why they're getting offers left and right. Okay? That's all I said. Nothing. No acknowledgment. Fine. And then a couple, A couple minutes later, Danny said, well, yes, we have a recurring revenue model. And the man that I was speaking to said, right. And that's why all the private equity companies are so interested in your industry and want to buy up all, all of your industries. I. So this was two weeks ago. So I looked at my husband in the back and I said, I saw at about this level. I said, that's exactly what I just said. Just like, just like this. And he kind of looked at me and I don't think he's like, oh, is she going to make a big.

Deal out of this?

And what's going to happen? Blah, blah. And you know what? I let it go. I chose to let it go. I chose to let it go because I did not know the guy in the front seat. I never saw him again. I never would will see him again. He's older, you know, he's in his late 60s. I'm not going to change his point of view. And it wasn't worth it for me in a car, in that kind of enclosed environment to say, well, let me tell you, I just said that. And you're speaking over me. And you know, women are being silenced everywhere. And you know, it wasn't worth it, and it wasn't worth it for me to say, I just said that and embarrass him. That just wasn't worth it to me. But I said it to my husband, and when we got out of the car, I said, this is why when we're out talking and I ask you to let someone. Let her finish. You know, oftentimes I'll say, I'll just tap his arm and say, honey, let her finish. Let her finish. This is why you just saw this happen to me in real time. How did that make you feel? So the, the long answer to your question is, I either use any of those tactics or I let it go. It depends on the situation. Not worth my mental energy. I wasn't going to change them. Not worth it.

Yeah, this is. This. It's such a great point. And I think one of the points that I want to make sure that we don't miss here is the fact that men, a lot of times can be blind to this if we're not looking for it. So if somebody is listening, if somebody's. You're in a conversation and somebody is really respectful for. To you, it's sometimes really hard for you to recognize when they're really disrespectful to somebody else. And so just men in your. In the. In. When you're in these conversations, be mindful of this, because this is an opportunity for allyship. You can say, actually, you know, Nancy mentioned this earlier, and you could throw it to Nancy in this kind of situation, or if so you realize that somebody is talking over one of your colleagues is a woman. Just say, actually, hold on. Nancy was. Was still talking. Nancy, I'd like to la. Let. Let you finish. Like, these little things could mean the world to people. So I don't want you to overlook that, too.

They could and they do. And I would only add that men, you already are at the table. You already have the seat at the table. So don't underestimate how powerful one little change like that can be to one of your female colleagues. And it doesn't have to be adversarial, and it doesn't have to be awkward. It's just. Kwame just said it perfectly right. Hey, Mike, you know, I know Nancy has some thoughts on this. Let's make sure we let her speak, but let's make sure we hear what she has to say. That easy. No problem. And I guarantee you she will be forever indebted to you. Forever. Because it makes such a difference.

Absolutely. No, this is great. And I see Doug. What's up, Doug? Doug podcast guest, too. Check out his episode. This is a great session. Thank you. My question is, do you have any advice on how a spouse can be supportive of their wife moving up in their careers as they deal with the challenges that many women face? Great question, Doug. Okay, Nancy, what do you think?

Oh, I think he was asking you. Because I have to tell you what. What I see in your social media and how supportive you are and how your family operates and how much you respect and value your wife and her accomplishments? I think there's no one that does it better than Kwame, except maybe my husband. But I think Kwame, he's. He's. He's the leader in that area.

Well, thank you. This is great. Simone, clip this part of the episode. Send it to Whitney, please. Immediately.

Yeah, okay.

I need. So I need some help. All right. But anyways, yeah, I think it's just. Just being there to listen. And I think one of the things that I've, you know, reluctantly had to come to terms with is the fact that I'm a fixer and not everything needs to be fixed, and sometimes not everything needs to be fixed by me. Like, that part, that last part is. Is. Is sometimes the hardest pill to swallow because you have to listen and honor their experience and be there to be supportive and hear and validate what they're experiencing. But sometimes we inadvertently invalidate what they're saying by. By jumping in and giving advice or jumping in and trying to play hero or. And essentially making it about ourselves in order to make us feel a little bit more valuable in the situation. But I think just recognizing and honoring their experience, listening and also encouraging is going to be important too, because I think there are so many complex societal forces that are operating just in general, but especially for women in the workplace. So you have some forces saying, go and work as hard as you can, as many hours as you can, climb the corporate ladder. You should do this for yourself, but also do it for the other women who are looking. And then there's the other forces that's saying, hey, spend more time with your family. If you're not spending time with your family, then you're a failure as a mother and as a wife and things like that. And so just seeing the. The challenge that Whitney has, balancing those types of things, it's like picking who she has to disappoint every day. Do I have to fail as a doctor, or do I fail as a mother, or do I fail as a wife? That's how she feels sometimes. And so I have to be there to support her, to let her know that I. I recognize the effort she's putting in and she's doing the best that she can, but also respect her enough to support her in the way that she wants to be supported. And sometimes that means just listening and not doing anything.

Exactly. I can't top that. I can't add to that. The only thing I would add is balance does not exist. It's. It doesn't. Balance means equal. Equal distribution of energy, and it's not. So what I've tried to do is work, is adopt a work life blending approach. It's not. It's not going to balance. Sometimes I work a little more, sometimes I don't work as much. It's blending it in the best way that works for me. And I'm sure that's what she does. I'm sure that's what she does.

Yeah. Oh, this is great. Appreciate that. Let's go to Stacy's question. Earlier, Nancy spoke about the socialization of women and how that influences the little voices in our head, even powerful women like Rihanna. What is it about the social, socialization of men that allows them to be blind to the silencing of women's voices? Oh, my goodness.

I don't know that they're blind. I think it's not on their radar because they never experienced against it. So, and, and I, I hear what you're saying every time I give a session. The men in the audience are just, like, shell shocked when I ask the question, how many of you have experienced this? How many of you experienced this? They're. They're like, they're stunned. They're blown away. And I, and I used to think, well, how could you not know this? Which I think is what Stacy's saying. So I think that it's not on their radar because they don't experience it. And because, frankly, we haven't been talking about it enough. Yes, we talk about it, and I've made it my life's mission to talk about it. But this is relatively new. This is all relatively new. And because many times we don't have the uncomfortable conversation around, hey, you just spoke over me in a meeting, or, hey, you just spoke over so and so in a meeting, I want to let you know why this isn't okay, or I want to make you aware of it, and I'm sure you didn't mean it. I don't think they're blind to it. I think they don't know to even look for it because they haven't experienced it.

Yeah, I think that's very well said. I think we can say indifference is a privilege. If it doesn't impact us, then we have the privilege of being able to ignore it. And I think that it's incumbent upon us, people who are aware, to keep on sharing this message and let people know that it impacts us, it impacts everybody. So we can't stop sharing this message. So I think it's mainly about awareness. I think that's really important.

Totally agree.

Yeah. And so we have 120 this. I feel like we started, like, 30 seconds ago. How are we at this point? Let's get this last question here. I can't see the name. It says LinkedIn user. So thanks for using LinkedIn. How. How do I Coach women on how to improve communication styles to be more effective. Some may view my feedback as patronizing when I'm really trying to help. Inflections at the end of a sentence. Upward rise. That sounds like a question. The. The fried voice, etc. Don't convey strength and can undermine a speaker's effectiveness.

Love it all. So I agree. I, by the way, my voice really is fried. I know what you're talking about with vocal fry. For those of you who don'. Go and listen to, like, Kim Kardashian, there's a little. They do this at the end. It's fascinating. The uptalk is another communication style. Totally agree. So, and I just did a whole podcast episode on this on feedback, giving and receiving feedback. So the first thing I recommend is that you. You make an environment where they're receptive to the feedback. So if you come at me and say, hey, Nancy, you know, on that podcast episode you just did with Kwame, I thought you came on a little too strong here. And, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. Depending on my emotional state at the minute, I may either hear it or not hear it, accept it or not accept it, and value it or not value it. So the key here is to get in a situation where they're ready to hear it, because if they're not ready, there's no point in giving it. So it could be something like, hey, Nancy, you know, great time. You know, I really enjoyed the podcast. I have some great feedback for you. When, you know, would you be interested in hearing it or, you know, I noticed a few things that, that you did really well, and I noticed a couple things that, you know, you might not be aware of. Is this something that you'd be interested in talking about? Or what's a good time that. Where we can talk about it or whatever the case may be. You know, I wouldn't wait for a performance appraisal. You know, there's a, There's a joke in. There's a. There's an expression that goes around so much that it's almost a joke. Can I offer you some feedback? And I use this in my personal life all the time. I'll say I want to talk to you about something, and it might be a little triggering. Is now a good time to talk about it? You know, or, hey, I'd like to give you some feedback on how. On how you handled what happened yesterday. I know this might be emotional. Is now a good time to talk about it, or do you want to talk about it another time then? The person is giving you permission. You are asking their permission to share the feedback with them. And that's important because they didn't ask you for the feedback. They didn't ask you. So if they don't ask you and you share it, then it's unsolicited feedback. If you ask them and then you share it, well, then they asked you so you can, you can feel confident and comfortable knowing that this is something that's going to be helpful and not hurtful.

This is great. I loved your response and I especially loved this ongoing battle you have been having with this light. It's so funny. So kudos on your ability to focus through all of this while while tangoing with this light on your right hand side. This has been really great. I really appreciate you Nancy folks here on listening and watching. Thank you for your contributions too. You really added to the discussion. Can you just put a, you know, just give Nancy some love in the comments. Really appreciate that. And Nancy, any, any parting words before we wrap up for today?

This is so fun. There's nothing I love more than speaking with Kwame and now his community and bringing my community with his community. Just thank you everyone. So the comments will keep the comments will live on Kwame's LinkedIn page. So let's keep the conversation going. These are some of the best coaching topics, session topics, everything. So appreciate everybody. You guys are awesome and I always love talking to you. Kwame, you know that.

Likewise appreciate you. Thank you. Thanks everybody. We'll see you.