Mastering Confidence with Nick Glimsdahl

Hello, my friend, and welcome to another exciting episode of Negotiate Anything. Thanks for joining us today. With over 10 million downloads and listeners from more than 180 different countries, it's dedicated listeners just like you who have made Negotiate Anything the number one negotiation podcast in the world. I'm your host, Kwame Christian. I'm a business lawyer, mediator, author, and the proud CEO of the American Negotiation Institute. Now, before we get into today's insightful conversation, I have a golden opportunity for those of you who recognize the power of negotiation in your professional lives. Have you ever found yourself wishing that you could navigate those high stakes conversations with more confidence? Or perhaps you're looking to empower your team with the art of persuasion and conflict resolution? At the American Negotiation Institute, we've crafted specialized keynotes and workshops tailored for those very needs. We've transformed the negotiation skills of professionals worldwide, and we're eager to do the same for you. We believe the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. And our goal is to help you improve your lives and the lives of those around you, one difficult conversation at a time. Don't let another challenging conversation leave you second guessing. Click the link in the description to discover how we can help you find confidence in conflict, negotiate better deals, and have stronger relationships. Because in the world of business, every conversation counts. And now, without further ado, let's jump into the interview. Nick, welcome back to the show, my friend.

Thank you, Kwame. It's always a pleasure.

Yes, it is a pleasure to have you back. So how would you get us started? By telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do.

Yeah. So my name is Nick Limsdahl. I have a podcast called Press one for Nick. I speak. Speak, I write, and I also am the senior account executive for a company called vds.

Fantastic. Great. And like I said, this is your second time on the show, and today we're going to talk about what it takes to grow in your field. So for the listeners, we all know that everybody out there, we're communicators, we're negotiators, we're all having these difficult conversations all the time. But in order for us to grow, there's a process. And so in this episode, Nick's going to walk us through this process, how he was able to gain confidence, to actually use the skills. So let's talk about first, the value of confidence and the consequences of not having it when it matters in these difficult conversations.

And confidence breeds confidence. Confidence when you are in a situation, regardless if it's the situation that you've never been in, but somebody builds you up and says, hey, here are the milestones, here's the foundation that you need to build in that next step. If it's somebody who's starting a podcast and somebody who, like Kwame, who has had that experience, and you're like, hey, here's the things that you should be watching out for, here's the things that really have increased my trajectory in my viewership, pay attention to those, understand where those are and then do a little reflection of that current state. Because when you understand where you read biographies of looking at what people are doing and what they've done in the past and where they've screwed up and where they've succeeded, that builds confidence for me because I now am learning from others. You're also learning from yourself as you continue to screw up, that you continue to talk about confidence. But what was the next step when.

It comes to actually the consequences of having these conversations and not having confidence?

Yeah, I think that's a great question. Because when you don't have confidence and I'm looking at somebody else on the other side of the room, or I'm having a one on one conversation, networking, or I'm having a difficult conversation with somebody else that I potentially don't agree with, immediately, I start thinking about what I'm doing and what I'm not doing and how I'm feeling or what I could have done different. So if you start second guessing yourself, you're going to start sweating. You're going to start being visually disruptive in that conversation, and that confidence will change that mindset. When you have that changed mindset, then it flips the script and you start having confidence because of the reps that you've put in.

Absolutely. And one of the things that's interesting about the way that you described it is the fact that we'll start second guessing ourselves, we'll start asking ourselves these questions, and a lot of times we're doing that in the middle of the conversation and as a result, we're losing focus as well. And focus, attention, those things are at a premium now. And if we are in the middle of a conversation and we're thinking about these types of things, we are thinking about ourselves and our performance to the detriment of our performance and to the detriment of our ability to connect with other people. Because when we're focused on ourselves, we're not focused on them. And it might come off as a lack of confidence. That is a possibility. And if you're not confident, you're not going to be persuasive. But it might come off as narcissism. Like, this person is not even paying attention to me at all. They're just focused on themselves. Right? It could be something much, much worse. It could have an impact on trust. It doesn't feel like you're completely there. And I know trust is something that you talk a lot about too, when it comes to sales. Can you paint out that connection between confidence and trust building in relationships?

So with trust, trust takes time. Trust is not something that is guaranteed at the beginning. Typically, trust is earned over time because of the relationships and the conversations that you have. You become trustworthy. And if you're not trustworthy and you are second guessing what you're saying, then people will don't believe that you know what you're talking about. If you're doing a bunch of ums and ahs and you know, like I did at the beginning of my podcast, I would focus on me, not necessarily that person in front of me. And I think the same is true if you are fumbling and bumbling based off of the conversation that you're having in front of you. People are like, this person doesn't actually believe what they're selling of the product or service. And so what they're trying to do is not look stupid and instead they're reducing that confidence. And there's probably another person just like you who is a sales rep, who has a product or service that they're trying to sell, who sounds different because of either the questions that they're asking, how they're providing that eye contact, how they're not focusing on themselves but of that individual in front of them.

It's such an interesting point, Nick, because I've never thought about it so clearly. Because if you don't have confidence in yourself, it makes it really hard for other people to have confidence in you. And when we think about just the way that people describe trust, it's like, I believe in them, I have faith in them, right? I have confidence in them. But it's hard for you to have confidence in somebody who does not have confidence in themselves. That's a really, really interesting point.

So what would happen if that wasn't the case? Let's say what are you actually purchasing? Are you purchasing the product or service? Or the saying goes, people product or buy the product of the people that they know and trust. And people say, well, it's not what you know, it's who you know. And I think that's start, Right? That's the entry of the door. But it also. I know Wayne Gretzky. Wayne Gretzky doesn't know who I am. I know Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan doesn't know who I am. So how would I go about building that trust? And I think it's those micro moments that fill that macro outcome.

Oh, that's good. I like that. So a lot of people are listening and saying, all right, how do I build this confidence for myself? And then there's another piece to it which is acting confident. And I think a lot of times people focus on trying to act confident rather than doing what it takes to actually become confident, because those confident behaviors will flow naturally from a confident mindset. Right. So for you, Nick, as you were building your confidence, what was it that got you to this point where you're now a confident communicator?

I think the first step is admitting that you're not a confident communicator, admitting that you have flaws and that it takes some personal growth internally of that discomfort in saying I say those ums and a nos. I don't ask amazing questions. I need to hear what other people think of who I am and some recommendations of people that maybe it's a recommendation of five friends and colleagues, and you're like, what are the things that I do that you think I can improve on? How do I get to where I need to go? Because here's the outcome that I'm trying to achieve. And if you don't understand where you're at today and you don't understand what are those outcomes that you're trying to achieve, then you're just going to go through the motions. That's everybody sets a goal in January to have this. I'm going to lose £20. I'm going to gain muscle. I'm going to go to the gym every day. I'm going to jump on the bike. I'm going to have a better relationship with my kids. But if you're not taking those steps and understanding, you know what? I maybe yell at my kids a little bit too much or I eat a little bit too much of the Twinkies, the chips at night, don't drink enough water. And here's the reasons why I need to get to where I need to go. Maybe it's my health. Maybe I had a bad cholesterol test and I need to figure that out. Okay, so what are those moments that I need to do to get that are getting in the way? That instead of just saying I need to Have a healthier heart, it doesn't help. And that's not going to build confidence for me to get to that next step. And I think that you need to have those moments that matter in your life and then they need to become repetition that will become the routine makes.

So much sense because I love the fact that we're starting off with honesty and self awareness. Because when we call that out and we actually say it, then it gives us a target that we can attack when it comes to our consistent improvement. Because I know for me I had to do this because I wasn't a confident communicator. At first I was afraid of difficult conversations. That's like my origin story. But I had to figure out the specific points where I struggled the most. And then it's almost like creating your own routine and habit for improvement. What is your unique challenge in these conversations? So, for example, I've talked to people who they're really confident negotiators when they're negotiating on behalf of other people. But then when it comes for advocating for themselves, they cannot do it at all. Right? So we have to make sure we're solving for the right problem. And it starts with the specificity that comes with self awareness and honesty with yourself as well.

So what? And I know this is I'm not the host of this podcast episode, but where's that disconnect of somebody who's able to fight on their own or for others, but they can't fight on their own?

Hello my friends. Before we get back to today's episode, I want to ask you a question. Have you ever wondered how to elevate your team's negotiation game and how you can help the folks on your team have better difficult conversations? At the American Negotiation Institute, we offer transformative keynotes and workshops tailored to empower professionals with top tier negotiation and conflict resolution skills. Whether it's a keynote for your next event or hands on training for your team, we've got you covered. Don't just negotiate. Master the art with the American Negotiation Institute. Click the link in the description to find out more. Elevate, negotiate and succeed for different people is different reasons because sometimes it's easier for them to see value in other people and other things and they might struggle with self esteem so they don't see value in themselves and so they can advocate on behalf of other people but not themselves. Sometimes it's that they are recovering people pleasers, so they don't like to make people feel uncomfortable and as a result they always try to be liked in these interactions, if you're advocating for somebody else and you're being assertive, you could say, yeah, the only reason I'm being so assertive is because I'm trying to make sure Nick gets a good deal. I'm advocating for Nick, right? But if it's you just saying no, I believe I deserve this. So I'm advocating hard for myself, that feels a little bit more uncomfortable. They feel like they don't have that relationship cover, so they're not as comfortable pushing. And I really think spending some time in silence and doing a deep dive to figure out where this performance gap comes from is really, really insightful because then you can start to recogn oh, in this specific type of conversation with this specific type of person in this specific situation when they say something like this, this is where I often struggle. And so you can get really, really granular when it comes to your performance gap. And the more specific you can be, the more powerful the intervention will be.

So if I would take a sports analogy, we typically practice for certain scenarios. And I wasn't basketball. I was never gifted at shooting free throws or doing anything. Hockey and running were my go tos until I was five foot nothing and £100, I think my freshman year in high school. So hockey didn't end up is such a good sport after all. But you plan out four scenarios inside of practice. All right, so if we're going to put the puck in the corner, here's what we're going to do. Here's the defense, here's where the center goes, that the goalie stays at the side of the pipe, and then here's where we're going to go next. I would assume the same is true with like a basketball. If we were to do that in our professional careers and set these foundational principles of here's how you do what you need to do when you tie your shoes at practice and then take it towards the game tape and you do more of that conversations and you stay in that discomfort. For you as an individual, if you're fighting for yourself or if you're fighting for others, you're going to continue to be more comfortable, regardless if there's a buffer of just you or with that organization 100%.

I love the example of hockey too, because one of the things that's beautiful about sports is that a coach isn't just going to say, all right, we're playing hockey today and that's what the practice is.

Right?

A lot more specific. We have drills, right? And so when you're specific, you can actually figure out what it is that you need to work on with specificity. That's really powerful. So for you now, let's transition this to building that confidence in ourselves. Now we're building confidence with others, building these really strong relationships. One of the things that is tough, especially for people who are in sales, is that you genuinely want to build these relationships. You want to create a human connection and you actually want to care. And the challenge is that the other side says, the only reason Nick's being nice to me is because he wants to sell me something. So how do you start to break through and build a genuine trust in those situations, even though there's a little bit of hesitation on their part?

Such a good question. Because everybody's going to try to bamboozle you or show the marketeering of the world and saying, look how awesome our product and services. You should do business with us. And here's our use cases and here's two referrals that just happen to be our favorite clients and who happen to like us. You should do business with them. I think the thing that you need to do and what you need to start with is truly understanding where their pain points are. Because if you're going to be like everybody else, you're just going to show them the slide deck and the NASCAR slide of all your logos that you do business with and your pretty five slides and then maybe a quick five minute demo if you truly understand who that individual is and what they're measured on. And you go do. If you're able to be customer facing, you're able to see the product or service that they use today, go test it out, understand that customer journey and say, here's some things that you might not know today. Because if you're able to find value to what they don't know today and you're showing them nuggets. Here's ways that I was on hold for this long and I was transferred from one channel on messenger and I was talking to a bot and then I transitioned from a bot to a human being and now they want to authenticate who I am and now they're starting from ground zero. Like, that doesn't make me feel known and valued as a consumer. This is where you add value. Here's the steps that I think you should do regardless of who you do business with. Like, you take these little moments that they could care about and what they're measured on that you would assume that they're measured on based off their title and you continue to find ways to throw in value instead of just showing them, putting them in a lead campaign. And it's a 12 email lead campaign. I'm going to do four outbound calls and I don't know why they're not getting back to me. And then you just do, hey, quick follow up. Just checking in. How are you doing? Love to get on your calendar sometime. It doesn't add any value and I block people nonstop via email at people who are trying to call cold. Call me.

Wow, this is so powerful. And to me, Nick, I think the hidden gem of what you just said, besides adding value, actually genuinely adding value, that's something I want people to hold onto, but I don't want them to miss the brilliance behind regardless of who you do business with. So can you tell the listeners why you add that?

Because if you're consistently finding a pain point that you can immediately solve and it's actually what's best for them as the sales rep, then I feel like it's not genuine. As a consumer, as somebody who's potentially going to try to buy your product, I feel like there's some type of bamboo on the background that you're going to only find the pain points that fit your narrative. But if you're saying, hey, I'm going to do an assessment of your current state and I'm going to truly understand who you are as an organization and I'm going to focus on the outcomes first before I bring in that technology. You're changing that mindset and the shift of that sales cycle, which will build trust and credibility to you first as an individual and then the organization you do business with.

I agree 100% and I think we're using a technical term. We would say something like statements against interest. Right. Because if you're saying this is beneficial to you regardless of who you go with, that's interesting because you should be focused on making you money, right? Just like your commission rate. But the fact that you're actually giving me advice that's beneficial to me outside of the sale, that's powerful. I think it's pretty rare now when it comes to the industries that we're dealing with most of the times at.

That exact point, maybe you become that trusted advisor and you no longer become that account executive. And regardless of how long that sales cycle is, if it's just a short sales cycle, let's say three months or less, you're able to add a little knowledge to them and maybe they decide not to do business with you now. But don't Give up on them. Continue to find ways to add value just because they didn't hit your quota attainment for the quarter. Continue to love on them. If you find something that is beneficial to them, you shoot them a note on LinkedIn. You follow up consistently. The same is true if it's a three year sales cycle. You continue to focus on things that will impact them. Hey, I noticed that this was something that I found online. Here's what I think about it. It's a 20 page article. Here's the five takeaways that I got out of it that I think will impact you. We'll let him schedule five minutes if you want to chat. So instead of just saying, hey Kwame, I'd love to get five minutes of your time. Hope you're doing well. Love to just catch up. That's a completely different conversation than the first one.

Man, I love it. And again, it's these subtleties that can make all the difference when it comes to these relationships that we're trying to create. Because we've become trained by necessity to become very skeptical and put up boundaries. Because we are getting advertised to and marketed to thousands of times over the course of the day and the majority of which we are completely blind to. Right. And then when something comes up as an obvious sales interaction, we are very, very skeptical and very hardened when it comes to making sure that we keep people out. I mean, think even of the questions, how are you today? How should I answer this? I don't want to make any kind.

Of opening, what can they use against me when I answer this?

Exactly. So this is great. And one of the things that we've alluded to, but we haven't said explicitly yet, is the fact that this approach breaks patterns. It's a pattern breaking maneuver. And can you go a little bit deeper into recognizing the very tried and true predictable patterns and the benefits of breaking those patterns in strategic ways?

I would say predictable patterns are easy. Predictable patterns have a journey of quote, unquote, success. Right. But who is success and what are you measured on and who put it in place? Was it somebody who actually did it or was somebody who just wrote a book to become the professor to have this cadence? I think that if you break the stigma of being that sales rep and you change that mindset of that individual, you're going to change that sales cycle. And that could be instead of sending an email that's a cold email that says, hi, first name, hopefully you put Kwame in the top line and you don't add any value. Or maybe instead you send a quick video. You use something like Loom or Canva or even Zoom and you just say, here's the article that I got out of it, here's the five things that I got of it. And I love to schedule five minutes of your time to see how this might impact you and how it can help. And if you do a quick video or on LinkedIn, you can even do audiograms where you can do on your phone and you can send a quick 30 second snippet of who you are and what you do. You have to continue to find ways to add value, even if it's on social, if it's liking and sharing, not just liking and sharing because you want to get something out of it, because you are genuinely interested and then eventually, hopefully you will work with them in the future. And if you're not, that's okay too. Don't just serve people to get something. It's not a give and get. In all cases, it should be a give, give, give, give, give, and then potentially get.

I love that. Ah, that is such a strong mentality. Because again, if you genuinely believe that people say about folks who are in sales being pushy or selfish or whatever it happens to be, it disappears because it actually doesn't apply to you. But at the same time, you're becoming a better salesperson because you're being a better person person. I think this is just a really powerful takeaway for the audience.

Well, and is it. Are you playing the long game because you're trying to hit quota? Are you playing the short? Are you playing the short game because you want to hit quota? Are you playing the long game because you're doing what's right for the customer and you can build this relationship and this foundation and it's a strong enough foundation and strong enough relationships where not only are they going to do business with you, but they're going to refer business to you. So it's not just going to be this pyramid where it's going to keep getting smaller and smaller at the top. I think it's going to be more of a. You're building this house and this skyscraper because of the relationships, because of the time that you spent in giving back. You don't just make this podcast to make the most amount of money. You're delivering this podcast to make the biggest amount of impact. And then if people do business with you, great. If they don't, hopefully they learn something today and hopefully that it delivered an impact where they're like, man, I need to implement that tomorrow.

Bingo. That's it. It's genuine generosity, the secret weapon in all of this. So, Nick, I appreciate your genuine generosity coming on the podcast and sharing your time with us today. Before you go, make sure to give the listeners a shout out about your podcast and where they can get in touch with you.

Yeah, awesome. Thanks for the opportunity. So press one for Nick. We're focused on customer service and customer experience. We interview anybody from Kwame, Go listen to that episode Reach Kwame, go to the press one for next podcast or on YouTube. We interview thought leaders that I interviewed, two CEOs at Starbucks, I've interviewed the Chris Voss of the world, people who ran Magic Kingdom at Disney, and anyone in between. Because at the end of the day, we're all delivering on experience and we're all receiving inexperience of what that might look like. And sometimes it's customer experience and sometimes it's that employee experience. So focus on that. You can reach me anywhere where podcasts are played on YouTube and I'm on LinkedIn as well. So go there and then if you want to read anything else, you know how to find me. I typically reach out to me on LinkedIn.

Perfect, Nick, really appreciate it, brother. Thanks for coming on the show.

You bet. It's my pleasure.

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