Mastering Emotional Intelligence for Successful Negotiations with Farah Harris

Hello, my friend, and welcome to another exciting episode of Negotiate Anything. Thanks for joining us today. With over 10 million downloads and listeners from more than 180 different countries, it's dedicated listeners just like you who have made Negotiate Anything the number one negotiation podcast in the world. I'm your host, Kwame Christian. I'm a business lawyer, mediator, author, and the proud CEO of of the American Negotiation Institute. Now, before we get into today's insightful conversation, I have a golden opportunity for those of you who recognize the power of negotiation in your professional lives. Have you ever found yourself wishing that you could navigate those high stakes conversations with more confidence? Or perhaps you're looking to empower your team with the art of persuasion and conflict resolution? At the American Negotiation Institute, we've crafted specialized keynotes and workshops tailored for those very needs. We've transformed the negotiation skills of professionals worldwide, and we're eager to do the same for you. We believe the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. And our goal is to help you improve your lives and the lives of those around you one difficult conversation at a time. Don't let another challenging conversation leave you second guessing. Click the link in the description to discover how we can help you find confidence in conflict, negotiate better deals, and have stronger relationships. Because in the world of business, every conversation counts. And now, without further ado, let's jump into the interview.

So I was a full time private practice owner and so I had my therapy practice and then was considering going into the workplace belonging and well being space, but then end up having surprise baby and had to put things on pause. And so I had only had maybe a handful of like, speaking engagements in 2018 before I ended up, you know, delivering our son. And then I was like, 2019, beginning of 2020, I was like, I want to get back into this. I actually think I want to really go into this space of professional speaking and consulting. And then 9. I was gonna say 9, 11. It was pretty much almost like a 9, 11 Covid happened. And it literally opened the door for me because of course everybody wanted to talk about mental health because of COVID And then months later, the murder George Floyd. And so they're like, oh, we also want to have like a wellness, you know, space. And oh, well, can you talk about dei? Can you do this? And I was like, well, I've always wanted to talk about mental health in the workplace, but now y' all are ready to listen somewhat. And so I took advantage of it. And then that's literally how working well, daily started to flourish. And so now, I mean, like year three officially. And it's been great. It's been great. And I've seen how much I've shifted and what I want to do and what I don't want to do. Where I left the DEI practitioners to do their thing and where I'm like, this is where I come alongside you and the support. But I am not a DEI practitioner, I'm a clinician that addresses belonging and well being from that clinical and emotional intelligence lens. Like, I'm not here to help you rewrite processes and policies, but the knowledge that I give you, I hope will help you support the work that you're doing within your organizations to create better policies and procedures for the people who work there.

Love it. This is cool. This is cool. We're going to talk about emotional intelligence, just in general, but of course, as it relates to negotiation and conflict resolution. And now when we think about emotional intelligence, I know there are lots of different definitions floating around out there. So what does that mean to you? What's our operational definition for this episode?

It is emotional intelligence is being able to really know yourself and be able to read the room is how I simply define it. It's being able to be comfortable with your emotions and be aware that other people have emotions too and that you are able to understand them and manage them with ease. And so I feel like we are so, so desperately lacking our ability to truly know ourselves and control ourselves. We are also not taking the time to really see that other people are hurting or in need. I say that these last two and a half years have been the worst group project ever. I was like, we are failing at this group project because people aren't using their eq, they're not being empathetic, they're not regulating their emotions, they're not effectively communicating. We are just becoming very self centered and thinking about our own stuff. And I understand it's been hard. We've had a lot of loss, we've had a lot of uncertainty and we're still in it. But this is a time for us to be more connected to people. And the only way I can see us doing that well is by elevating our emotional intelligence.

This is great and I love how succinctly you were able to define that. It's almost like you're in the final processes of writing a book on the topic or anything. Would that be a fair hypothesis to.

I love your educated guess. Yes, it is a fair hypothesis. Kwame. I am, I am in near the final stages of completing my book, the Color of Emotional Intelligence. It's really about how inequity has impacted the skill set and how we all don't use our emotional intelligence in the same way. The same way. We all don't cook chicken the same way, and we don't make our pizza the same way. It seems like a skill we all have. But those of us who have been historically and systemically marginalized use emotional intelligence differently.

This is great, and I think that'll be a really helpful resource. The more voices we get sharing this type of information, the better off the world would be. And I think it's important for everybody to recognize that there are differences, and then that it's important to recognize that so we can actually do something, so we can learn and grow and develop ourselves in a way that's authentic to.

Who we are and to have those difficult conversations. Kwame.

Bingo. Perfect segue. Perfect segue. Because what we're realizing is when we think about emotional intelligence, especially as the way that you described it, knowing yourself, the ability to read the room, understanding that other people have emotions, and respecting that, and then being able to manage our own emotions, that puts us in a better position to manage the emotions of others. It sounds really obvious why this is good. And at the same time, we realize that emotional intelligence is becoming a lost art. So what is it that makes this critical skill so difficult to acquire?

That's a very good question. I don't think we are very good self auditors. Self awareness is one of the domains of emotional intelligence, and it's really the bedrock of it. The more we are aware of ourselves, the more we are able to know how we're showing up. But we need feedback, and people don't like that F word. Like, wait, no. You don't really tell me about myself. Just. Just affirm me and, you know, make me feel good. And the thing is that it's like looking at a mirror and walking away and forgetting what you look like. Like you need a reflection back at you to tell you that you got, you know, some spinach in your teeth or, you know, there's something, you know, on the side of your eye or whatever, and that's what emotional intelligence is. But that self, Aw. The more I'm able to understand that I may not be as good of a listener as I thought I was, because I asked my partner, hey, how do you think I am in our communication, in my listening, when we're asking our colleague, how am I showing up? Am I impatient? Am I speaking over people during meetings, those type of things. We need to get that feedback. We need to get it from either people that we trust and feel safe with or sometimes it's not necessarily a person that's close, but you know that that person is very direct, is going to give you exactly what you need to hear, even if it doesn't feel comfortable so that you can understand how you're landing on other people. But we're not curious enough about ourselves. I don't feel, you know, and that's what I mean about being good self auditors to really do that self check. And then I feel like there's all this conversation about emotional intelligence but not enough about and this is probably because it's I'm a clinician. Our emotional narratives, like where did we first learn about feelings? How did your family talk about feelings? Did they sweep things under the rug? Did they express emotions, but violently, aggressively. So if you're sweeping things under the rug, you might be a conflict avoidant person. If you grew up in a household where it was aggressive or violent, you might find yourself being very short tempered or have actually anxiety whenever you see any type of aggression. So I'm like, we can't talk about being smart about emotional intelligence without first understanding what did we learn about feelings in our family of origin? Even with society, like what do we tell boys? Man up, quit your crying. So even tender emotions aren't really accepted. And even with girls, you're being too emotional. Is it that time of the month? And yet again, as I said earlier, this is such an uncertain time. There's so much loss and yet we are not able to have tender emotions with one another because we've grown up with this narrative that those tender emotions of fear and sadness aren't safe to express. And that's where I feel like we're falling short and why it's so important to relearn and become students of emotional intelligence so that we can be better for ourselves and for everybody else around us.

Hello, my friends. Before we get back to today's episode, I want to ask you a question. Have you ever wondered how to elevate your team's negotiation game and how you can help the folks on your team have better, difficult conversations? At the American Negotiation Institute, we offer transformative keynotes and workshops tailored to empower professionals with top tier negotiation and conflict resolution skills. Whether it's a keynote for your next event or or hands on training for your team, we've got you covered. Don't just negotiate. Master the art with The American Negotiation Institute. Click the link in the description to find out more. Elevate, negotiate and succeed.

I agree 100%. And like you said, self auditing, that's where it starts and that's where it usually ends and fails because people don't do it. And to quote a wise philosopher, truth hurts. And that's Lizzo, of course. And because I will tell you, when I think about some of the things that I've said or done to trigger humility in myself, it wasn't the intent. I wanted to puff myself up. So I would ask my partner or I would ask a colleague at work. I was like, on a scale of 1 to 10, would you say, I listen or how did I make you feel after that conversation, I'm like, I'm an expert. This score is going to be phenomenal. Um, it's not the case. I'm much better when it's like a more technical, business oriented situation. It's easy for me to be disconnected and not, I shouldn't say disconnected. I should say more dispassionate. The more emotionally attached I am, the more I fall into more human elements. And I mean human and more of a negative sense where I allow my emotions to take control in a negative type of way. But there's like becoming more emotional, intelligent, requires you to be attached to those emotions, understand them, but not let them get in the way of productive dialogue. Right. And so, yeah, I'm growing, I'm growing and I think this is really important. I'm glad that you also talked about the emotional narratives. That's not something that I've heard before. And listeners, before we got into the episode or I guess flowed into this conversation, I should say we were connecting over the fact that we're both Caribbean Americans. Farah is from Haiti, born in Haiti. My dad is from Dominica. My mom is from Guyana. And I'm sure you're familiar with this, this archetype here, the stoic Caribbean male. You know, it was, it was years before I like allowed myself to feel, you know, and I didn't. It's so funny because I would spend all these years teaching people emotional intelligence through negotiation and everything. And then, you know, Vara, when your therapist starts quoting parts of your book to you in a session. Oh, gosh.

Like stepping on toes.

Exactly. You're not supposed to do that. I didn't make this book for you, but yeah, this is great. I want to go deeper into those emotional narratives. Like, how do we uncover not just the fact that we have these emotional Narratives, once we recognize them, what do we do about it?

Yeah, that's good work. And it's funny that you said your therapist was saying things back to you. So obviously I advocate for therapy or just a space where you can process. We like to believe that we are rational human beings. We're just logical, and we show up and we do business, and that's all this is. But we're the sum of our parts. And so we can't ignore the fact that we grew up in a certain environment, whether it was in foster care or with our grandparents or with our biological parents. Whatever the circumstances, we have to really uncover it for us to uncover ourselves. You can't truly know yourself if you don't take time to really dig deep and go, okay, why am I the way that I am? It's opportunities to slow yourself down. And actually, in the first part of the book, before I even get into the inequity piece or quote, unquote, add color to the eq for anyone who doesn't even know what emotional intelligence is, the whole first part is an introduction in black and white, what it is, and I help you to ask those questions. I mean, it's literally what I just asked you. Like, what is your emotional narrative? How did your family talk about feelings? What was that like? Did they dismiss your emotions? Have you had any experience of trauma where you may have grown up with a healthy family dynamic, but something happened. There was abuse or where your boundaries were violated, whether it was sexually or emotionally, and that shut you down, and so now you feel like you can't articulate your emotions, so your emotional vocabulary kind of gets stunted. All of those experiences that we have, we have to uncover. So that could be through journaling. If you aren't ready for therapy yet, you know, that you're able to. To put it out there so you can see it, not so that you can, you know, go down this rabbit hole, but more so that you can have a little bit more ownership to your story, that you can go, okay, well, this is it. But I'm the editor. I can rewrite this. You know, maybe my parents didn't teach me these skills, but I can learn how to emotionally intelligent. I like how you said earlier, you know, that you're just not letting your emotions take over. I have a phrase of walking the dog, so I don't know if you're familiar with the Dog Whisperer.

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So, like, years ago, I was watching the show, and Caesar, I think that's his name, is teaching his Clients like how to walk a dog. And he said, you don't want the dog to be in front of you. You don't want the dog to be behind you. You want to make sure that you're walking right alongside the dog. And I'm big on metaphors and anal analogies. And I was like, this is the perfect picture of what emotional intelligence is. You don't want your emotions to be leading you right and guiding you. They're in control. You're going from 0 to 100.2 seconds. You don't want them to be behind you because you can't see what's coming. So that's like passive or passive aggressive behavior. You want your dog, AKA your emotions, to be walking lock and step with you so that you can see them, you can engage with them, you can manage them. And that's how you're practicing at least the first two domains of emotional intelligence, of self awareness and self management. I see my emotions. I'm happy because X, Y and Z. I'm angry because this happened. I'm frustrated or I'm sad because we're being aware, we're assessing where it came from. And then we're hopefully now being able to address the situation in the right way. When we're learning about our emotional narratives, we want to practice those three as of being aware of our own narrative, assessing what came about, like, why is it this way? This is not to blame your parents, dad. This is your fault that I don't, you know, I don't cry from in front of my wife or whatever, but even to take a moment and practice that empathy, that social awareness piece of like, well, why did my dad raise me this way? You know, being Caribbean children, we understand that life was different. We understand there's a cultural component there. And that's not to excuse them, but it helps you to understand there's a reason why. And after you've assessed that, then you can go, okay, well, how do I want to address this? What action can I put forward that will serve me and ideally other people well? So it's just taking the moment to practice the pause and just ask yourself, what is my story?

This is great.

I love eq. I could talk about this all day.

I know. I could too. And my listeners are like, yeah, Kwame, we know.

We'Ve been here before.

We've been year before, right? And so I can hear the very business driven people in the audience, like, when are you going to get to the negotiation stuff? Okay, let's get to the negotiation stuff. So let's paint this picture. What happens if you do not have a high EQ in a difficult conversation? What is the risk? Who?

Several things could happen depending on what emotion is coming up for you. If you aren't practicing your EQ to regulate yourself, or as the wise words of Ice Cube, check yourself before you wreck yourself, you can run the risk of losing whatever it is that you're trying to gain in the negotiation if you're leading with anger. No one wants to negotiate with a hothead. No one wants to negotiate with someone that doesn't seem like they have it together. Especially if you're trying to create a contract to form a relationship. So it's not a one time one and done like you're just trying to bargain a car. If it's a long term relationship, someone goes, this is how you're going to deal with this negotiation. I may not want to work with you going forward. If it's anxiety that you can't regulate, then you may try to opt out of the you know better than me. Negotiations sometimes could take some time, right? It's not just always a one time conversation. But if anxiety or fear is something that you don't regulate, then you might opt out before you actually even get to what it is that you want. You know, you might misread and anger can do this too. The other person's words or facial expressions, because you're in fight or flight mode. So learning how to use your EQ and regulate yourself and manage your emotions allows you to pace the negotiation much better. So you're not so quick to exit and you're not also so quick to burn a bridge, but it allows you to even to notice what's happening with your counterpart. Are they getting angry? Is there time for you to maybe have a well timed joke to bring some levity to the situation? Are they nervous and if so, what can you say that could assure them and can bring some type of calm to the situation? So it's not just you being able to check yourself, but it allows you to also be able to check the other person. If they're losing it and they're getting out of control, that you can say, hey, maybe we need a brief recess, maybe we need to take a break. We'll come back to this after we've cooled down a bit because you want to. Ideally, in a good negotiation, both parties walk away feeling content that they feel like they did. They may have had to compromise on some things, but at the end they got what they wanted. And so if we don't allow ourselves to really manage our feelings well. We can end up losing. We may get the job this one time, but may lose future opportunities with this company or this person. Or if it's anxiety, we may get a worse deal than what we really wanted because we were operating out of fear.

Yeah, I love this. So essentially it has a negative impact on our performance. I mean, yes, long story short, that's, that's really what it comes down to because our emotions will have an impact on our words, our actions, our decision making, our perception of the situation and the other person, our analysis of ourselves and the other person. We're going to make worse reads. We're going to perform form at a lower level. And the, what you said about the pacing is really interesting because you think about a, like a car, for instance. A like imagine if you are driving really fast and you're redlining your car. Of course, this is something I've never done. I've. I always drive the speed limit. But hypothetically. Hypothetically, Hypothetically, let's say you are growing up in a small town, let's say Tiffin, Ohio, and you're on a country road and nobody else is there and you are 16 and you want to play with your car.

I love how you can picture this so quickly in your mind.

I know, I'm a storyteller. I'm a storyteller. Yes, I know.

And so what we do then is you.

You floor it and you see how long you could do it. And then after a couple of minutes, your car turns off and you're like, my parents are going to kill me. Caribbean American parents operate differently. They have a different set of laws and I'm going to die today. And that's kind of like how your brain works too. Because if you are redlining emotional for too long a period of time, then you are eventually going to get tired. Just think about when it comes to willpower. Willpower is like a muscle, right? We have decision making, fatigue, all of those types of things is going to impact how long you can stay in the conversation. When I'm thinking about my mediations, I mean some of these mediations could be like three and a half hours long. You have to be able to stay focused. And if you're allowing yourself to burn too hot emotionally and you're not managing yourself and pacing yourself, then your brain slowly starts to get tired and then you make worse reads, you make poor decisions, and then you cannot last long enough to be effective toward the end of the conversation. Because if you're effective for 90% of the conversation. Then your brain starts to fail for the last 10% when you're supposed to be making a decision. I mean, it's almost like the other 90% doesn't matter. So I really like that injection of pacing into the.

Yeah, I love that you pretty much broke down the, like, the neuroscience of what happens to our brains when we're processing emotions or when we're dealing in stressful situations, Right, because our prefrontal cortex, which is, like, in the front of your. Your. Your. I would say, like, right in the middle of your forehead, you know, if we wanted to place it there. It's the boss of our brain. It's the rational, logical, decision making area. And it takes a lot of energy to use that. So our amygdala, which is, like, in the middle of our brain, is what houses all of our emotions. Our brainstem is where our fight, flight, or freeze kicks in. And those two parts love and hijack the brain a lot. And so when we're pacing, we're practicing the pause, you know, taking those deep breaths, those calculated deep breaths, you know, counting to 10. You know, sometimes I tease some of y' all need to count to 100. You know, it allows that oxygen and the blood to flow so that, you know, you're moving from, like, the low brain to your high brain. And that's what we want. We want to go from a low emotional intelligence to high emotional intelligence. And we don't want our brain. Brain to be hijacked by our limbic system, where we're just letting all of that, you know, raw emotion come through without asking ourselves, well, why? When Kwame said this, it triggered this. This anxiety, or why is this making me upset? And you have to pace yourself so you can ask yourselves the real question. Oh, when he said it in that tone, it reminded me of this, you know, And I remember the other time where I felt like I was not being heard. And that's what's coming up. So let me pause for a second and then say something that will help me advocate for myself. Going like, hey, Kwame, let's slow down a second. You know, you're talking over me. Can you give me a moment instead of going, oh, my gosh, you know, you're not listening. I'm done. Or you start shutting down. You know, you may not say anything, but you just start shutting down, and you're not listening to what the other person says. So really understanding how our brain is even processing the emotions and what the brain needs to Process and pace well is so important. So that pacing, that taking the deep breath, you know, practicing the pause is so needed for, like you said, it's. It's, you know, sometimes it could be a long marathon of a mediation. You want to pace yourself. Well, because like you said, if you ran great for 90%, but you don't cross the finish line, like, people like, what. Why did we come here? Like, what was the point giving you the water and cheering you on? Like, can you. Can you run this last mile? So you want to pace yourself well so you can make it across the finish line?

Yes. Well said. I love this. It's so helpful. And especially the advice of slowing down and counting. And I think people, it's really helpful to understand the psychology behind that, because we could say, oh, you know, I've heard this so many times, it becomes almost like a truism. It's too trite. Right. And you just become, you know, numb to that advice. But it's really. It's the easiest way to trigger your parasympathetic nervous system where you're actually slowing it down. Right. It's just that simple. Taking that deep breath. And what I found also is that a lot of times people are afraid of showing whether or not they are feeling something. I am not afraid to let people know if I'm feeling something, if I'm frustrated, mad, those type of things. I'm not going to flip tables. But you'll see that, like, okay, I said something. And usually Kwame responds pretty quickly, but now he's taking five seconds, like, five or so seconds. He took a couple of deep breaths and slowed down before saying the next thing. And so what I've realized is that earlier in my career, I used to thought that was a weakness. I didn't want to show any type of. That I was affected in any way. But now I realize that it is really a strength because it shows that you are controlling the moment, you're controlling yourself. And a lot of times we have to remember this important thing. A lot of times we have these underhanded negotiation tactics where you might be dealing with a bully, somebody who is not negotiating in good faith. And a major part of the success of those underhanded negotiation tactics are contingent upon you making a bad decision in the moment due to emotional pressure. And if you can demonstrate to the person that no matter what you do, I'm not going to make a bad decision because of emotional pressure, then you diffuse a lot of the negativity and bad behavior that could come your way.

That's good. That's good, Kwame. Yes. Yeah. I mean, that is. That is so key. And I think we. And I know you've mentioned this probably several times on this podcast, that it's not just in the boardroom that we're having conversations about negotiations. It's with our toddlers, it's with our friends, it's with our partners, and when we talk about slowing ourselves down. So I'm speaking to the parents out there that have had experiences with toddlers, you know, and we're watching them, like, lose it, and it's going to escalate if we don't slow ourselves down and if we're not calm and if we're not creating this kind of, like, baseline for them to see us modeling ourselves, walking our dog, quote unquote, you know, managing our emotions well. But I think that, you know, what you said is so important, because if I'm the other person that's trying to aggravate you, agitate you, and you're like, yeah, I'm going to breathe through this because I see what you're doing. It throws them off their game. And, you know, again, if you're trying to come out of this, well, you know, it's not like I'm not trying to say we want them to fail, but we want us to be working on a mutual playing field, you know, like, okay, stop playing these games. I see what you're doing. Let's slow down together and actually talk about what we're here to talk about. And I think that's the hope is when you're practicing high emotional intelligence, that it will be something that will be contagious. And the other person decides, okay, you know, let's. Let's do this together.

Exactly. And again, it goes to one of the things I talk about called conversational leadership. So it's not just that I want to have an effect. I think about it in terms of me coaching the other person through my behavior on how you should act.

Right.

You see this? I'm upset. I'm clearly upset. You can tell because I took a deep breath. But I didn't eviscerate you. You deserve it. You know, you do. But I didn't do that. But I won't do it. And I expect the same thing in return. Right. And so it's constantly taking advantage of these opportunities to not just lead yourself emotionally in these conversations, but also to demonstrate how you should. You can and should carry yourself in a conversation to the other person. You're right. It is Contagious. And they might not consciously realize, oh, yeah, I like the way that Farah handled that. I should do that too. They're just realizing we are collectively creating a culture for our little bubble of a conversation.

Yes. Oh, I like that little bubble.

We are. That's not what we do. We keep our cool.

Yeah. Oh, that's good.

Yeah. You know, one of the things that's really frustrating, Farah, you'll see this when it comes to writing a book is the book has to end, but your growth never ends. And so one of the most frustrating things is coming up with these cool concepts and terms. And I'm like, why is that not in the book?

But that's because it's for the next book.

Exactly.

For the next book. And I think that's the exciting thing because what that lets you us know, and I think this is also why people continue to enjoy your content, is that you remain a student in what you teach. You know, and I think great leaders stay studious, stay wanting to learn more. And also, you know, because you still want to stay a few steps ahead of those that you're, you're teaching. And so too, there's no final destination in all that you're learning. There's going to be new things that get downloaded into you where you're just like, oh, that's brilliant. Why wasn't this in the book? Because it's for the next one.

Exactly. Exactly. And this is a perfect segue for you to shout out your book again before it comes out. Let's, let's prime the pump a little bit and also let the listeners know about how they can get in touch with you as well.

Yeah. So again, the book is the Color of Emotional Intelligence and it will be coming out in 2020 if you are interested in joining my pre launch group so you can get behind the scenes, you know, details and everything as I make my way through publishing and launching. You can go to workingwelldaily.com books if you want to follow me, which you should on LinkedIn and on Instagram and Twitter. I'm araharris lcpc and if you want to learn more about the work that I do for organizations and individuals and leaders, you can visit workingwelldaily.com love it.

Farah, thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate it.

It's been a pleasure.

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