Mastering Salary Negotiation with Brandon Bramley: Insider Tips and Strategies

Hello, my friend, and welcome to another exciting episode of Negotiate Anything. Thanks for joining us today. With over 10 million downloads and listeners from more than 180 different countries, it's dedicated listeners just like you who have made Negotiate Anything the number one negotiation podcast in the world. I'm your host, Kwame Christian. I'm a business lawyer, mediator, author, and the proud CEO of of the American Negotiation Institute. Now, before we get into today's insightful conversation, I have a golden opportunity for those of you who recognize the power of negotiation in your professional lives. Have you ever found yourself wishing that you could navigate those high stakes conversations with more confidence? Or perhaps you're looking to empower your team with the art of persuasion and conflict resolution? At the American Negotiation Institute, we've crafted specialized keynotes and workshops tailored for those very needs. We've transformed the negotiation skills of professionals worldwide and we're eager to do the same for you. We believe the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. And our goal is to help you improve your lives and the lives of those around you, one difficult conversation at a time. Don't let another challenging conversation leave you second guessing. Click the link in the description to discover how we can help you find confidence in conflict, negotiate better deals, and have stronger relationships. Because in the world of business, every conversation counts. And now, without further ado, let's jump into the interview. Brandon, thanks for joining us today.

Of course, thanks for having me.

Yeah, it's our pleasure. So how would you get us started? By telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, my name is Brandon Bramley. I'm the founder and owner of the Salary negotiator. But I actually have a experience for about 10 years in procurement and supply chain where I used to work with actually some large companies. So in procurement supply chain teams within Amazon as well as American Airlines, where I led a ton of business to business negotiations, some of those within multimillion dollar deals. But most recently and over the last five years, I've actually focused on the salary negotiator, where essentially I work directly with candidates to actually help them negotiate their new job offers. That way they know how to navigate the process and make sure they're getting the highest compensation. They so I've worked with everyone in every industry, every role, as well as some of the big players like Amazon, Facebook, Meta and Apple, and then also a bunch of small startups and small businesses. So we have experience across the realm of industries in salary negotiations and really what we're doing now is trying to get out there more and essentially share some free resources as well, individual to some of those companies, as well as hopefully help everyone actually negotiate their salary rather than just taking the first job offer as is.

This is great. And listeners, every, there's going to be links to all of these awesome resources in the descriptions. And one thing, Brandon, that you left out, and I am giving you permission to let my listeners know how you can help them. Can you tell them about the consultations too?

Yeah, absolutely. So we offer everyone a free salary negotiation consultation with one of our experts where essentially I or someone else will jump on the phone with you to go ahead and chat through your job offer or your certain situation. Usually it's best to contact us when you're in the interview phase. We can give you some tips throughout the interview phase to get a strong offer out the gate and then decide on if we can give you tips to handle that negotiation yourself or if you want to work with our team to help you navigate that process.

Oh, this is great. And hey, listeners of negotiate anything, this is just you and me, a little back channel conversation here. Brandon can't hear us, but if I'm hooking you up with something free here, I need you all to make me look good by taking advantage of that opportunity. So I want to hear that you all booked consultations with Brandon because I want you to get the best deal possible on these salary negotiations. Okay. Sorry, Brandon, I know you couldn't hear me, so let me just bring it back so you're part of the conversation.

Thank you.

But, but yeah, this is great. And I think a great place for us to start today is talking about the process of salary negotiation because we've had a ton of episodes on the podcast on how to negotiate salary and they've been very tactical, very strategic. But when you think about negotiation, it's a process. There's a dance that we're going back and forth with the other side. So, Brandon, it would be great if we could just start off with you outlining your unique approach to salary negotiations.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that's the key, right? So before anyone attempts to negotiate an offer, it's always important to understand how to navigate the process. That way you're prepared and you increase your chances of success. I would say the biggest first step, even kind of before we actually get into our key process, is don't share your salary expectations, instead, get the offer. A lot of people have talked through this, so I won't spend too much time on It. But our thought process on this is you're really not going to know what the company might offer until you finish the interview phase. You also go ahead and actually get the job offer. So you know the benefits, you know what the total compensation looks like and you know the details if the team's a right fit for you as well as the culture at the company. So the worst thing you could do is accidentally throw it a small number smaller than and what they offer. Maybe that's based off of what you're currently making in your role and then you end up with an offer that's just slightly higher. Or the worst thing in our opinion is you go in thinking, hey, let's go ahead and overinflate what I want to make. That way they come in with a really strong offer and making the most possible. But what this does, when you think about it from the recruiter perspective, is they look at it, shoot, I need to fill a candidate for this role there may want to make a lot more than I can actually provide within this process. So maybe I should move forward with another candidate and we'll go after them and we'll filter them through the hiring manager. That way I don't run the risk of actually not having to go back to the drawing board, do more interviews just because they won't accept the offer. So that's the biggest step before we get into these is the negotiation stops in the interview phase. But actually, based on our experience working with hundreds of clients to successfully negotiate their job offers, we do have five proven steps that we actually follow in our salary negotiation business, which anyone can do. The biggest thing is understand the components of your job offer. I mean, it's true for any deal. It really doesn't matter if this is negotiating a big business deal or negotiating a salary is you want to know what's on the table and what you're actually going to be negotiating. So a lot of jobs are going to go ahead and include in the offer a base salary. Maybe there's a performance bonus if you're lucky enough in the tech industry. Hopefully there's an initial equity grant, but you might have relocation packages. You are going to have a ton of different benefits and perks that aren't consistent across companies and might be different than your current company. So the first step is always to slow down, get the offer and actually review it to see what's included.

This is great. This is great. So let's take a second and pause here. I want to go back a bit to one of the Things you said about strategically choosing not to share the expectations, because I am with you on this. And maybe this is. Maybe this comes from our background. For me, as a lawyer who does negotiation trainings and trains a lot of procurement teams, you coming from the procurement world, we approach this negotiation game a little bit differently. I've had other people come on the podcast, maybe they were former recruiters or people in hr and they were saying, always share. And so let's have a little bit of a little debate here on the Negotiate Anything podcast, when we talk about the different schools of thought. If somebody says, always share the expectations before, what would your response be to that person?

I love it. My biggest response would be just like you is, don't do it. At the end of the day is you could throw something out, but you haven't even asked them the question of what they will provide. So it's always best for me to actually turn the question back. And that's what I would recommend doing. Because from the procurement field as well, I would never give kind of what I want to make in a deal until I find out what they're willing to offer, where they're flexible. I've done my due diligence. The other thing is most candidates are in the interview phase, so that's their core focus is, hey, I want to work at this company. How do I get this job? So the best response is if a recruiter comes in and says, hey, what are your compensation expectations? I would literally just say, like, hey, to be honest, I put all my focus on interviewing for the role and not necessarily what the compensation is in this position. However, I'd really love to understand from you what compensation range you were thinking about for this role. That way you give the chance to actually turn the question back on them. And hopefully if you're working with a good recruiter, they'll open up and let you know. Because at the end of the day, I mean, the recruiter wants to know if you're going to accept. So they're usually going to be pretty candid about, hey, this is what the range looks like. Does that work for you?

Hello, my friends. Before we get back to today's episode, I want to ask you a question. Have you ever wondered how to elevate your team's negotiation game and how you can help the folks on your team have better, difficult conversations? At the American Negotiation Institute, we offer transformative keynotes and workshops tailored to empower professionals with top tier negotiation and conflict resolution skills. Whether it's a keynote for your next event or hands on training for your team. We've got you covered. Don't just negotiate. Master the art with the American Negotiation Institute. Click the link in the description to find out more. Elevate, negotiate and succeed. This is good. And I love the fact that you actually gave a way to do it versus just sitting there and saying no. I'm not just a naked no of just no, period. Usually not that effective. So I like that you gave an alternative there. And listeners, I want to pay attention to one of these things that Brandon did. It's very subtle and it applies obviously in this situation, but I want you to expand it beyond the confines of a salary negotiation and it's making sure that you're keeping the other person talking by closing your your statement with a question. And this is an elite level thing that's very subtle that a lot of people don't know. So whenever I'm negotiating as much as possible, even if I'm making a direct point, I'll make the direct point and end it with a question. So they are constantly responding to me. And so that's a way that you can really lead the negotiation. I don't want to say control, that seems a little too Machiavellian here, but you're leading the conversation in a productive and more predictable way. So you know that their response will be within a certain set of parameters too.

Absolutely. I mean, that's the biggest thing, especially when you leave that question. It's on their response. And that's where silence is key. Just wait to see what they come back with. Hopefully they feel a little bit awkward and get that fuzzy feeling to where they have to throw something out. And that's essentially what you're looking for, is getting them to talk and getting them to disclose additional information that you can take back.

Love it. Oh, this is great. And now when we talk about step one of the process where you're talking about understanding the offer, some people might say, well, Brandon, I mean, isn't that obvious? Who doesn't understand an offer? Clearly it's step one because people haven't understood the. So can you go a little bit deeper to talk about some of those things that are often misunderstood about the offer?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the biggest thing that I've seen recently is the tech companies have been hiring like crazy. People are moving to Facebook, I guess, Meta now they're moving to Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, Netflix or the other big companies that are starting to get more creative and aggressive in attracting talents. So what a lot of people are is they're working with companies. For example, when I work at American Airlines, all you get is a base salary as well as a yearly bonus. But when you move up the career ladder and you move into these high profile positions as well as some of these larger companies, your offer is actually going to get more complex. So the biggest thing I see is people focus on base salary and possibly bonus and like, hey, this is how much I want to make. But they're used to that because that's in their paycheck every month. But when you move to these other companies, they're looking at it on a total compensation basis. So when I say understanding the components of your job offer, it's understanding your total compensation. And what I mean by that is taking your base salary, how much is that per year? How much is my performance bonus going to be each year if I hit the target? If they're giving me an equity grant, which is essentially stock in the company, usually is going to vest over a three or four year period. How much does that add in on a yearly basis and how much is going to actually vest in year one, year two, year three, year four? And then also are they including a sign on bonus? If they're including a sign on bonus, maybe I'm going to go ahead and have a huge year one total compensation, but then I'm going to fall off a cliff in year two. So was it an incentive just to get me through the door or am I hitting that recurring guaranteed pay that I want to see from year to year as well as if you look at it from the benefit side, am I making a big move? Is there a relocation package? Is that how. What are the terms on their relocation package? Do I get a lump sum where I can manage, move myself? Maybe make an extra five or ten thousand dollars in the process? Or do they just pay for everything? And then as for benefits and per am I going to get free food if I move to Facebook or am I just going to get run of the mill health care? Is there a tuition stipend where I can actually learn? Maybe I can bring on Kwame and his team to actually come in and actually give me the techniques to negotiate. Those are all things that are included in your job offer. But until you sit down and look at those, all you're thinking about is maybe the base salary or something. So that's really what I mean of sitting down understanding the components. Then that's going to point you in the right way to start doing research and asking any questions that you don't understand.

Oh, this is great. And listeners, I want you to, I want to make sure that you paid attention to the most important thing that Brandon said, negotiating for the American Negotiation Institute to come in and do a training. I love that. I think that's a great idea. But with what you said, you've given some really great examples of how this could be very complex, very quickly and very impactful. And so it's really important for us to take the time and do the homework. And honestly, I think a lot of times, times when we don't do this, it's a bit of intellectual laziness because we are busy, we're overworked, as it already is, and this is a stressful process and you're probably managing a number of different offers. And so our brain is going to look for shortcuts and we just take a quick glance and we say, oh, yeah, we got it. And we pay attention to the, like, the big obvious things that are often tied with our ego, like the underlying salary, for instance. People usually compare themselves based on salary more so than vacation days. But vacation days are very important.

Right?

So I like the way that you broke that down because like you demonstrated, there are many ways that we can misunderstand the complexity of these offers. Yeah, that's, that's true.

And the big thing too is even moving into our second step is it's more research before you even actually talk to the recruiter. So what this is, is just like any deal you're trying to negotiate, whether it's buying a car or if it's negotiating a new contract for some new system and even a salary, is actually doing your due diligence on the offer and asking those questions that you mentioned earlier. That way you're actually starting to pull additional information out from the recruiter and make sure you understand the deal fully before you actually go back with a counter. This is one of the, another big step I see a lot of people miss. They go through all these interviews, maybe they spent weeks, maybe they spent months landing this job, and then, yeah, they just wanted quick and easy. I'm going to jump on the phone once I'm going chat with them, tell them what I want, they're going to give me it, I'm going to accept it. Boom. Now I just made this huge 5 to 10 year career decision, all within 24 hours. So the first step for us is to actually sit back, review the offer and actually ask questions back. Because this is also a place where you can pick up some freebies. So questions like, hey, why Wasn't a sign on, bonus included? That's pretty uncommon for my level role in my experience. Or hey, what is the actual performance bonus achieved on this team the last few years? I noticed you mentioning 15% but is that actual. Can you tell me what what it's been for the last couple years and what is the team on target to hit this year? Why does the company only offer a set amount of TO days instead of an unlimited PTO policy? I'm a seasoned career professional. I have a lot of vacation time at my current company. I really hope that I don't need the drop down from that when I make the move. Or hey, I know your company's public. Do you actually offer equity to new employees or is that something that I'll get on like a refresh basis or when I hit a certain level? These are all additional questions, even if you know the answer to them, that are not going to give you just give you additional data points. But it's also going to set you up for the counter, right? A lot of these questions are going to come back no to us. No, we don't offer equity. No, we don't offer a sign up bonus. Well great, thanks for letting me know because I'm now comparing that against multiple offers. So I'm going to go ahead and include that in my counter for reasons of why I deserve a higher salary and your compensation is not competitive with everything else that's out there on the market.

This is so good. This is so good. And I love the focus on curiosity. I mean that's a foundational element of effective negotiation. I talk about it all the time on the pod, but I think one of the things that we can talk about here too is if you haven't yet, download those free guides we have on our website too. So you're getting a ton of resources because Brandon's coming with fire with his salary negotiation expertise and consultations. And then of course if you go to our website, there's going to be a link in the description as well. You can get access to our ultimate negotiation guide which has a salary negotiation guide included in there. And you'll see there's a section where you're actually writing out the open ended questions that you'll ask during the conversation in order to be prepared. Because Brandon, you dropped some really great questions there and I know you're able to do that because you have done this so many times and I know that the mere mortals who have not negotiated salary hundreds of times probably won't be able to Come off, come up with those types of questions off the bat, just completely off the fly. So it's important in your preparation process to write down the questions that you're going to ask. So you don't need to manufacture those questions in the moment, which can be really difficult.

Exactly. Yeah. Because the other thing too is it's going to change the dynamics of the counter and the negotiation. If you do get some of those freebies, you don't want to just move into the negotiation, ask for more money and they provide you a sign on bonus and be like, shoot, that's great, I got an extra 10,000. When you could have gotten the extra 10,000 just by asking a few questions. Now you start to look at that recurring total compensation and how you improve that. So now you're getting that long term growth in pay.

Love it. This is great. So let's move on to the third step in the process. We have understanding the offer. Get more research, more data in the last step. So what's number three?

Number three. So this is a little bit more due diligence on your part. So this is really researching the compensation ranges to identify what your compensation should look like. That way you're going to understand, hey, what, how much room they might have to move, how strong is your offer and also how much to ask for. I hear a lot of people out there throwing out, hey, just throw it a big number and let's go for it and see what they come back with. And usually inflate that a little bit above your minimum. But at the end of the day, based out on my negotiation experience, maybe my negotiation style, that's more like the car salesman negotiation where you throw out a low number, they throw out a high number and you're going to probably argue at each other until you meet in the middle. But when it actually comes down, a salary negotiation, they have approved ranges on what they can pay. You just got to find a way to get there. And you're going to have a lot higher success if you do the research and you find out what the top end is and you put a request towards the top end of that range on what they could reasonably accept. That way when you put it in front of them, you're going to avoid them taking it badly. At the end of the day, you're still in that interview realm. So you want to put the best foot forward as well as you're setting the recruiter up for success. You want the recruiter to have a number that's in place play and all they need to do is go back to the decision makers of like hey, this person's spot on. We really need them. We can offer this, we've offered it to other candidates. Can we get this closed out or what can we do? Instead of the conversation going to wow, this guy is asking for way too much. Maybe we should go in a different route or maybe we should go ahead and call their bluff and just stop the negotiation now and say the offer is what it is. So that's really when you, when you want to get into the nitty gritty. And there's plenty of resources out there. There's PayScale, there's salary.com, there's Glassdoor. I would never just focus on one resource as your authoritative source. I would actually look at a few to see where they're coming in at, try to hone it down to the city, the state, the role as well as the company if you can and draw an average between those so you know where they're falling in at. Where's the bottom end, where's the middleman, where's the top end? And then also what a lot of people don't talk about is when they lean on that data is it's all public. So do take some of it with a grain of salt. And what I mean is sometimes people make errors when they upload things. Maybe they inflated their salary to feel good because sometimes there's bragging rights involved or maybe they missed the equity or maybe they missed a sign up bonus. So make sure you're looking for that as well as if you're looking at some of the tech companies. So say like a software engineer role or offer that's going to have a heavy equity component. Don't forget, I mean over the last three years it's definitely dropped some but most of those companies have increased significantly. So if you're looking at a role that's heavily based in equity, their total compensation might be a lot higher and what they're reporting it might not be realistic for a new hire. So at the end of the day you always want to be realistic and know exactly what to ask for. That'll also give you a good idea of if it's going to hit your own goals. The whole thought around knowing your worth to whether it is worth trying to negotiating to see if it's going to actually hit that top end for you.

This is really, really great, Brandon. And now when we're talking about relaying this information to the other side, how would you actually deliver the information?

Oh Good question. So this is our step four. Let me know what you think about this because there's definitely a few different trains of thought on this, but this is a step where you're essentially going to present asked the recruiter in a kind, confident manner. So you're going to go ahead and pull together some of those tidbits that you pulled from asking the questions in the due diligence phase, like, hey, there's no sign on bonus, you have a lower 401k lower vacation than my current role. As well as quoting the range of the compensation that you want to get to based on the research of hey, this is what this role usually pays. Can you find that? I personally recommend doing this via email verse over the phone. And the reason being is not everyone is a trained professional in negotiating. It's hard to handle conflict sometimes. It's not just key and easy and it takes a lot of experience. And at the end of the day, everyone has these conversations maybe once every three to 10 years when they change. So it's a lot easier to actually sit down, put everything in email, make sure the tone is kind, it's genuine, it covers all the points and it sets you up for success. Essentially something that the recruiter can go ahead and actually just forward on to the decision makers and it's going to drive their conversation. Because the risk and the worry that I have with doing it over the phone and what I've actually seen when I take that tack with clients where they want to deliver it is all it takes is the recruiter throwing out one question or interrupting to essentially derail your conversation. And you're looking through, you're looking through notes, trying to figure it out. Because recruiters at the end of the day, I mean, they're professional negotiators, they do this day in, day out, out, they know what you're going to say. If they can cut you to the chase, cut you off, it might derail exactly what you want to get through on the phone.

Yeah, this is really good. I'm smiling a lot here, Brent, because early on in the American Negotiation Institute, I used to do some salary negotiation coaching. And it's just bringing back all of these fun role plays I did. It's not hard to kind of short circuit somebody's brain when it's a high stakes negotiation and you know, you kind of derail them if they have a script. So you're spot on. I think that's really smart. And especially given the industry to recruiters, the hiring managers, whoever it is, they're used to getting those types of responses via email. And so I think in this type of situation, let me say in other negotiations we might suggest, hey, strategically it makes more sense to have this conversation in person if possible, or via zoom or over the phone, communicate that message so they can hear your voice, hear the tone and those type of things. When we think about the salary negotiation types of conversations, the industry standard is morphing into more email heavy types of conversations. So I like the fact that you're leaning into that and it makes the process a lot more replicable too, because it's easier to pull that off than have a really articulate, high level conversation about salary negotiation, which is really stressful for most people.

Yeah, it really does. And then worst case scenario, if you do need to jump on the phone with a recruiter, all you have to do is regurgitate yourself. You've already built your talk track and you just need to redeliver that email that you sent. It just gives you one more chance that the recruiter is going to understand exactly what you need. Hopefully forward that on to the HR and comp team or the hiring manager. And that's going to guide the discussion rather than having the recruiter take notes while you're on the phone with them and then take that back to go ahead and display that to the team.

Okay, agreed. No, this is, this is really good. And now let's round home here with the fifth step of this process. What does that look like?

Yeah, absolutely. So this is where most people we've seen fall short even sometimes happens in our practice. But we spend a lot of time coaching them on this. But it's really looking at handling no's and seeing those as objections. Usually what happens if everything goes great, you send off the counter email. The recruiter will come back and say, hey, hey, thanks for being candid with us. We'll take this back and we'll see what we can do. But more times than not, they're going to say, hey, let's hop on the phone really quickly. I want to chat through this. And you know what they're going to say when they jump on the phone? They're going to say no in a variety of different ways. But a lot of people will see that no one like, shoot, I tried. They don't negotiate. But at the end of the day, I would be very surprised at a recruiter that just spent a month trying to go ahead and land you schedule all the interviews, meet with the hiring manager, meet with the interview team to go ahead and just push over. When you ask for more money. At the end of the day it's their job to get the best deal for the company. So they are tasked to actually spend a little bit of time to push back. But usually 9 times out of 10 those aren't real no's and they should be seen as objections. It's very similar to being in sales. Really what sales is is just another type of negotiation and people are naturally confrontation avoidant and usually you can use that in your advantage during a negotiat. And what I mean by that is most people, it's pretty easy to decline request once if someone asks a question. It gets a little bit harder if you ask twice and then it's even harder if you ask three times. Usually most people fold and like, hey look, I'll look into this and get back to you. So you're really looking for that verbal agreement. And what I mean by that when it comes to salary negotiation is your main goal is to have them take your concerns back to the hiring team. Once they go ahead and say, hey, I'm going to take this back to the hiring team, I don't think they're going to move, but I'll see what I can do. They've given you that verbal agreement so it's off to the races and 9, 10 out of 10, they're going to come back with a better offer. It's just handling a few nos to get there.

This is really interesting. So Brandon, let me know if I'm conceptualizing this the right way. I love the fact that you were always tying this back to a standard negotiation process. I like that we're sprinkling in the sales terminology with overcoming objections. So we're recommending recognizing it's not just a no completely, it is some resistance that they're putting up to almost test your resilience. How serious are you about this money? Let me act like it's hard to get. And then taking it a step further here, the goal isn't to get them to commit in that moment to more money. The goal is more manageable and it's to get them to commit to talking about the internal decision making makers about more money. Am I understanding that the right way?

Yeah, exactly. So at the end of the day the recruiter might have some approval to come back and give you more money. Maybe it's a certain level of sign on bonus or a certain level of the salary, but usually if you're looking for a bigger increase, they have to take that back to their team, but they're usually first going to jump on the phone to either fill you out, try to find out what your true bottom dollar is, as well as say no and use a few quick tactics to get you to accept the offer so they it out, move on. They have a hiring manager and they don't have to think about doing more interviews. So I do have a few negotiation scripts that we use in our practice, so I'm happy to share those to kind of show how you can actually identify an objection. And what would be a good response to handle that if you'd like as well.

Yes. Oh, that's great. That is great. So, yeah, let's. Let's talk about the scripts. So what does that look like?

Like, good question. So at the end of the day, you're going to get a variety of different no's. That's usually what's going to happen when you jump on the phone with a recruiter. This can also come via email as well, but usually it's delivered via phone call. But for example, say the recruiter hops on the phone, you regurgitate the email that you sent and they say, hey, we feel we gave you a great offer based off your experience and we really cannot make any changes since we're at the max compensation for this role. Some people would see that as like, shoot, that's a no. I get it, I'll accept as is. But at the end of the day, all we see that is is a no or an objection that needs to overcome and get you to that goal of them actually taking back your concerns, sitting down with the hiring manager and actually working through that to see where they can move it. So if they told me that, I would just see it as a no. And a good response would be, hey, look, I agree that's a very generous offer. However, I'd like it if you can at least take my concerns back to your team to see if they do have any flexibility. I know it might be a hard ask for you, but I greatly appreciate you at least taking it back for another look. Do you mind, after this call, sitting down with your team and looking at my concerns to see if they can find any improvement or if there's any additional room to help close the gap. So, yeah, so the biggest thing is, regardless of what the no is, you want to be able to handle that and push it back with them with the goal of having them actually take back your concerns to the hiring manager. So, for example, if they come in and the recruiter's on the phone and says, hey, we feel we gave you a great offer based off your experience and we really cannot make any changes since we're the max compensation for this role. Rather than seeing that as like a real no, I would actually see that as an objection I need to overcome with the mission to get them to take it back for the team. So a good response that anyone can use to get comfortable with handling the objection would be, hey, look, I agree that it's a very generous offer. However, I'd really like it if you can at least take back my concerns to your team to see if they do have any flexibility. I know it's a hard ask for you, but I greatly appreciate you taking it back for one last look. Do you mind taking back my concerns to your team and seeing if they do have any additional room to move or help close that gap?

Oh, that's great. Yeah, I love that. So, again, let's just break this down. I love the fact that you, you were very clear and assertive with the way that you, you made your point. You acknowledged what they said. You didn't completely dismiss it as irrelevant. You made it clear that you heard what they said and then you stuck to what your request was in a very reasonable type of way. And like we discussed earlier, you closed it out with a question, so they have to respond to you essentially following your lead in that conversation. So I really love that approach.

Exactly. That's usually what works, is it's usually agreement of, hey, I hear you loud and clear, but as I mentioned, I have these concerns. And then closing it with that question, you never want to go ahead and close it with like a yes or no question. You usually want to be a little bit more vague and almost assume that they're going to take it back. But if they do come back and they say, hey, look, no, like I said, we can't make any movements, I would see that as your second no. And I would respond the same way. Just adjust it a little bit and do that three times until you're like, look, they're not moving. The no might be real. Now let them sweat a little bit and say, hey, look, I mentioned I had these concerns. Let me think about this overnight and I'll get back to you tomorrow. That way there's the possibility of the recruiter folding or you getting an email an hour later that says, hey, look, I bumped into the hiring process manager. They can move a little bit. Let me look into this quick.

That's really great. That is really great. I love that. I Love that. And I think one of the things that the listeners would really appreciate about this is the fact that it's so. It's non confrontational. It's just respectful, assertive, clear conversation that has a clear objective in mind. You're not playing any games. We're not magic. We're not. You're not trying to fool people or anything. We're just communicating clearly about what we, we need and what we want and seeing whether or not there's a deal to be made. I really like this approach.

Yeah, exactly. Because at the end of the day, I mean, the salary negotiation is a lot different than some other negotiations, but it's the same concept. But you really are using the recruiter as the middleman. So the tone should always be of like working with a friend. That's helping you feel comfortable in the new move to the new company, especially because you're still in that interview realm. You're also showing off your skills to the new hiring manager. Maybe this is a product manager role where your core responsibility is going to be pushing teams to prioritize your projects. Negotiation is a big part of that. So this is your time to shine and showing that you can do that in a calm, trusting manner to where you're going to build those relationships rather than just push them against you.

Love it. No, this is really, really, really great, Brandon. And I don't know, I don't want to give you career advice, but I feel like you should start a company about this and offer free consultations or something like that.

Have a.

Have you ever thought of that?

No, it's crazy. I did. I had the thought about five years ago and we went ahead and we started the salary negotiator. So on the salarynegotiator.com that's where everyone can go ahead and find us. They can sign up for our free consultation where we hop on the phone with you, talk about your situation and see if our services are a right fit, or send you on your way with some quick tips on how you can negotiate a higher compensation, as well as on our resources. We have plenty of articles out there that are specific to some of the companies as well as all salary negotiations in general. So you can go ahead and say, hey, is this a myth? Should I negotiate? Or hey, how do I negotiate? How do I find those tips and tricks that Brandon mentioned on the podcast to navigate this myself?

This is amazing, Brandon. Really appreciate it, my friend. Thanks for coming on.

Of course. Thank you for having me.

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