Million Dollar Negotiation Advice from Real-Estate & Business Mogul Ryan Serhant

Hello, my friend, and welcome to another exciting episode of Negotiate Anything. Thanks for joining us today. With over 10 million downloads and listeners from more than 180 different countries, it's dedicated listeners just like you who have made Negotiate Anything the number one negotiation podcast in the world. I'm your host, Kwame Christian. I'm a business lawyer, mediator, author, and the proud CEO of the American Negotiation Institute. Now, before we get into today's insightful conversation, I have a golden opportunity for those of you who recognize the power of negotiation in your professional lives. Have you ever found yourself wishing that you could navigate those high stakes conversations with more confidence? Or perhaps you're looking to empower your team with the art of persuasion and conflict resolution? At the American Negotiation Institute, we've crafted specialized keynotes and workshops tailored for those very needs. We've transformed the negotiation skills of professionals worldwide, and we're eager to do the same for you. We believe the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. And our goal is to help you improve your lives and the lives of those around you, one difficult conversation at a time. Don't let another challenging conversation leave you second guessing. Click the link in the description to discover how we can help you find confidence in conflict, negotiate better deals, and have stronger relationships. Because in the world of business, every conversation counts. And now, without further ado, let's jump into the interview.

Ryan, thanks for joining us today.

Thanks for having me, man.

Yeah, it's our pleasure. So how would you get us started? By telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do.

My name is Ryan Serhant. I am a real estate broker. I'm based in New York City. I've been selling real estate for almost 15 years. Most. Most people know me from a TV show on Bravo called Million Dollar Listing New York, where they follow my socials or read my books about sales or podcasts or the courses. Anything else?

This is awesome. Well, we appreciate you taking the time with us and listeners today. Yes, of course. Ryan is an expert in real estate negotiations, but we're going to take this conversation broadly to see how he uses negotiation throughout his life. And I think a cool way to start, Ryan, is just kind of getting an idea of your perspective on the topic or negotiation. What does it mean to you?

I mean, negotiation for me is conflict mediation. You have a conflict, one side wants one thing, another side wants another thing, and you have to find a solve. Right? Negotiation is problem solving. My trick for negotiation. And again, I negotiate all day, every day, and I've Been doing it forever now is that I see poor negotiators.

Right.

Let me back up. A successful negotiator is somebody who wins. Right. Who gets to the win. They sell, let's say, take it from just sales. That person is a great negotiator because they sell the most.

Right.

That's a pretty good blanket statement, I think. But there's a lot of people who negotiate to win for themselves. I want my price, I'm going to negotiate. You gave me my price, I won. I'm a great negotiator. You're not going to get every deal done that way.

Right? Right.

The greatest salespeople sell the most. Not just sell one thing for the most, you sell the most things. And I've always come at it by saying, I'm going to take myself, I'm going to leave myself outside of the negotiation. I'm not going to negotiate for you or for you. I'm going to negotiate for the deal. I negotiate for the deal. I don't negotiate for the buyer, I don't negotiate for the seller. And I'm not negotiating to win. I'm negotiating the other side to win. Because if the other side wins, then I win by default because a deal got done. If I go into it just saying I gotta win, my clients gotta win. I gotta get my client what they want. That's not what they want. You are a three year old negotiating for cookies and you've never grown up. So I think that's how we sell as much as we do. And that's how I think about negotiating.

I love this. Ryan, this is great. And you are. It's funny, you have these courses which I encourage everybody else to check out. We're going to put links.

Stella likes her hand. Dot com. Go check it out.

Check it out, everybody. This is great.

This is gold. Because the thing I love about it is that a lot of times people say you need to remove your ego or your ego can get in the way of the deal, but there's really little action. That's like. There are few action items that come on the back end. Like, how do I actually do that? Conceptualizing it in terms of removing myself from the process I think is extremely helpful. Can you go a bit deeper into that?

Yeah. I think removing your ego is a good thing. But it is like you said, it is hard. Like, how do I. What does it mean? How do I actually do that? You do that by rooting for the other side. Okay. Now a football game is not a negotiation. That is a That's a sports game, okay? If you root for the other side to win, the other side will win and you will lose. Because in a game, there is one winner and there's one loser. That's different. In a negotiation, both sides have to come to a meeting of the minds for it to be a successful negotiation. Otherwise, it's not a negotiation. Then it was a then Those are broken talks, right? The negotiation did not work, right? Talks fell through. Like, that's what you hear. We didn't get a deal done, okay? If that's your goal, to not get a deal done, then it's not a negotiation. You went in to torpedo a deal and then you moved on. But if your goal is to get a deal done and your goal is to win, then you need to focus on how the other side can win, which means you have to write down two things. What does the other side want and what does the other side not want? Okay? And a lot of times you can then take both of those lists, let's say, and tie them back to a set of fears. Because everybody in good and bad negotiates out of fear. I am buying this because my wife is about to give birth and I'm afraid that will give birth and then be stuck in my own apartment. It's a rental apartment that I have to pay a lease for a whole new year. And then she's going to be pissed off and I'm going to be stressed out and. Right. Or I'm selling my house right now because I think the housing market's going to crash. Interest rates are going through the roof. I think it's going to get worse next year. All my money was with ftx, that guy. I don't know what to do. I need to sell, come up with any. Literally anything, right? Or I want to sell because I want to get all my money out. And I spent way too much money on this renovation. And if I don't sell, I'm not going to be able to go buy my next place. You know, whatever the issue might be, there are always fears, okay? Sometimes the fear is just reputational risk. If I don't sell, I don't care. I don't want to sell, I don't need to sell. But if I don't sell, then people are going to know I don't sell, and people know I don't didn't sell, then they're going to know I didn't sell, and it's probably going to be because I was too expensive, and then that was my fault. And then I look like not a real seller. Then am I ever going to be able to sell ever? Am I then just that terrible sell? Maybe. So what does the other side want? What do they not want? What fear or fears can you then attribute the wants and the not wants to. And then you can create action items for how you on your side now of the deal can come and get what you actually want by solving those problems. You know, sometimes it's with money, sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's with contingencies, sometimes it's with concessions, sometimes it's give and take, sometimes it's a takeaway. Like when you're. We're doing deals, we use the three. We use what's called the three Ps. Push, pull, and persist. So every person you're working with, right, Operates in one of these ways. In any given deal, somebody either needs. Sometimes people need to be pushed. We're just like, hey, hey, hey, you want to do this? I'm following up with you again. You get it. You got to buy this. Otherwise you're an idiot.

Right?

This is the greatest deal ever. Are you sure, Ryan? Are you. I'm just so nervous. Stop being nervous. Just do it. Okay, fine. Okay. Then you have other people who are geniuses. Now I'm overpaying. Screw that guy. I'm not doing this. I'm not buying this. You said you wanted it. You're the one who made the offer. Angry, angry, stubborn. Stubborn. Angry ignorance. Okay, you know what? We're not buying it. Someone else is buying it. Game over. Let's move on. What do you mean? No, no, I don't want to deal with you anymore. You clearly don't want this place. Every time I talk to you, you're angry about it, you're mad. You don't even respond to me anymore. So just so you know, deal off the table. I'm pulling our offer. No, that's pull and then persist is the most annoying one. But it's where most people fall into, where it's the indecisive human being. They don't know if they want it. They don't know if they don't want it. They think they do, but they gotta talk to 52 people. And I gotta go to work, I gotta pick up my kids, I gotta go to the gym. I'm eating. And you just have to persist and stay on them. Right? It's endurance for the win. It's like the sports team who right at the end, you know, it's like the Patriots and the Falcons in that famous super bowl. Like the Falcons should have won, should have won, should have won. But at the end of that game, okay, end of that game, in overtime, the Falcons were so tired. They were so tired and exhausted from just pushing so hard the whole game to win that they lost out of exhaustion. And the Patriots had endurance for the win as an example.

Oh, this is great. And the thing that I'm loving about this, Ryan, is the clarity, right? Because in a very short period of time, you were able to help us to reverse engineer the ego and figure out what it is that we could do to get over that. And it's. I think people seek to find this level of neutrality and Zen where they just don't feel that anymore. But you're saying, listen, no, we're going to actually actively root for the other side. Exceptionally helpful. And then the three Ps of persuasion, push, pull, and persist. I think this is great because it helps us to understand to try different types of persuasive strategies at different times based on the type of resistance that we're getting. And I feel like a lot of people who are in selling and negotiation, they start to lean heavily on one type of persuasion versus another. I'm a push guy, I'm a pull guy, whatever it happens to be. But it seems like we have to be flexible and make better reads.

I was told to come on this podcast and just drop nuggets.

Listen, that's what you're doing. I love it. I love it.

Hello my friends. Before we get back to today's episode, I want to ask you a question. Have you ever wondered how to elevate your team's negotiation game and how you can help the folks on your team have better, difficult conversations? At the American Negotiation Institute, we offer transformative keynotes and workshops tailored to empower professionals with top tier negotiation and conflict resolution skills. Whether it's a keynote for your next event or hands on training for your team, we've got you covered. Don't just negotiate. Master the art with the American Negotiation Institute. Click the link in the description to find out more. Elevate, negotiate, and succeed.

Now let's go deeper because I think the examples that you gave are really powerful. And the one that I realized that a lot of intellectual negotiators make a mistake of failing to use is persistence, because it's almost like it feels too simple and it's almost beneath them. Can you go a bit deeper on how powerful the persistence aspect is and then also how you can do it without being too annoying? Because I think that's one of the fears people have.

I'm going to give you another acronym. Okay? Well, not really an acronym, but it's something I call the three F's. Follow up, follow through, and follow back. Great. Salespeople know how to follow up forever because it's not the client's decision. It's not. It's not up to them to decide when to work with you or not. It's up to you. They're going to wake up one day and go buy something. And if you're not there, they're buying on the Internet, they're going to buy with someone else. Follow through is what makes them stick with you because you got to follow through with what you say you're going to do. You say you're gonna send the stuff by 5 o', clock, send it by 4:59, otherwise don't be an adult and go back to elementary school. And then you follow back, which is, anyone that's ever done anything with you forever are now warm for you. Follow back forever. Never lose that person. Never lose their referrals. They are, They've approved you, they've said yes to you at some point, but they're in your yes group until the day that you die. Right? And so a lot of people follow up and they persist by being annoying because they don't think and they don't actually make an effort. They don't follow up with value. They follow up by saying, hey, did you get this? Still want to buy you out there. Hello, you alive. Hello. Like, they're just, they are annoying. And you are annoying when you do that. So how can you follow up with value? In the real estate world, you follow up with value by sending new listings. You send new comps, you send information about the market, you send an interesting article. You, you send a quick note that just says, hey, hope you're having a great week. Nothing new for you this week. Touch base with you later.

That's it.

Never expect a response ever. Dude, I followed up with people for five years with no response. And then they bought, right? And they bought because they almost felt bad for me. I honestly believe that because follow up is free. You know, quitting is forever. And I just. But also if someone says, hey, stop talking to me, then stop. Like, if they say, hey, I bought something with someone else, I'm good, thank you. Then stop. Like, you're, you know, don't be a lunatic. But I, dude, there's. My dentist follows up with me all the time. There's other Dentists out there. I don't have to go to this damn guy. He's fine. There's other dentists. And I, I, I swear to God, I get my teeth cleaned more than anyone on this planet because this guy follows up with me all the time and I'm like, I guess I should come see you. I don't know. I do. I, he like emails me checking in on my teeth. He's like, how's the bite? And I'm like, I, I think it's fine. I guess I'll see you next Tuesday at 10. I think I put this guy through college, you know, kids and stuff, but he follows up like a champ. He's really, really good at it. But it's with value. It's like with value. So just that's follow up with value. Otherwise, otherwise don't. Right? But there's always value you can follow up with that is not spam or annoying.

I love that. Very helpful, Very, very helpful. Because that's something that I've heard a ton of times like, I don't want to follow up because I feel, okay, now we have a framework, a methodology that we can use to do it consistently without having to run into that fear head on. And one of the things that I've realized is that culture and negotiation is really important. So for instance, if I'm doing a training in a certain part of the world, different negotiation cultures. So the Real Estate Board of New York was a client negotiation wise for us for a while. And what I've realized is that the New York real estate market is a different beast when it comes to those types of negotiations. Higher stakes things move quickly, those type of things. And can you speak to the negotiation culture in the New York real estate market?

Yes, it's aggressive. And the New York real estate culture also believes in silence. There is a silence to negotiating in New York that takes a long time for people to get used to. People just believe in ignoring you here. Like you, you learn that phrase real quickly. If you start selling things in New York City called silence is violence. Like you really want to get to somebody. Don't respond like you have ghosting. But in negotiations, like it's. And it works, man. And it works like, and it worked on me and a client once. He was, you know, this place was offering, it was asking $40 million and my guy, we looked at comps and everything and we offered what we thought it was worth and was worth probably like 32, 33. So we offered 28. Other side did not respond or like, you're not even going to talk to us. Hello. Okay, fine, 30. It's not okay, fine, 32. It's not worth anything else. And now this doesn't happen in a day. This took, like, four months. And they just never responded. And it was like, okay, fine, 40. And they said, thank you so much. We'll get back to you tomorrow. I'm like, the point. And it totally worked because they just didn't care. One of the greatest negotiating lines of all time is in the movie the Ghost of Girlfriend's past, starring Matthew McConaughey in a scene with Michael Douglas. And it's about dating and picking up people at bars. And Michael Douglas says, in every relationship, the one who holds all the power is the one who cares the least. And that is New York City negotiating. That's probably all negotiating. But if you can reclaim the balance of power to your side by removing all instances of giving a shit, the other side, if they want it, they'll do what you want them to do. And that seller in that example, he. He knew we didn't have another option. I mean, there were other options. They just weren't cool. They weren't nice. His house was just the nicest. So he just didn't respond. He's like, I don't need to sell this. And you can make lowball, squawky offers all you want. Go ahead. And I'm not. I'm not. It's not even worth the time of my thumbs.

It's crazy.

It makes so much sense because essentially.

They baited you into negotiating against yourself. And it's almost. And it's funny response. And then really, the options that you had at your disposal were pretty limited. Okay. You want more value in order to get my attention? That's a tough one.

Yep. Yep. Tell me about it.

Okay, so now let's flip. Let's flip the table.

Now, when it comes to ignoring people.

And because it was a legitimate tactic, it worked in that situation. What about your use of that? What are your thoughts about somebody deciding to use that? What should they keep in mind if.

The other side is using it or.

If you decide to. When you say, you know what? I think I have the leverage here, and I'm going to use the ghosting as a strategy here.

Silence is violence. And sometimes. Now, listen, time kills all deals. But how much time? Sometimes it's a week, right? Sometimes it's a day. When you're dealing with intense personalities, sometimes both sides don't care. But which side doesn't care? The Most. And that time, you know, time would have killed that deal if it had taken a year, you know, like, because by then, everyone moves on. It's like, nah, I'm not interested anymore. Okay. But both sides were pretty unfocused, so that when they did kind of go in for focus a little bit, you know, I had to pace that deal. A lot of negotiating comes in. I, like, I never actually talk about this, but it. It comes into pacing, right? It's like. It's like a. It's like jazz. Like, it's pacing. You know, there's a tempo, tempo, tempo, boom, boom. You know, and then there's like the low drum beat, keeping it. And there's a lot of other noise that comes in, and it's insane. And then it all goes away. Now we have some silence. And, like, that's how you pace that. You. You have to be a composer in a great negotiation, right? How are you composing it? And what I've also always told people is you have to think about each negotiation you're going into. You want to write down where you want to get to. Okay, what's the end of the movie? Okay, what's the end of the movie? What's the end of the song? You're the director. You're the composer. You don't start at the end. That's no fun. And there's got to be a messy middle. It's going to have to be some conflict. But write it out. How are you going to get there and actually write it out? The other side is probably going to come back to us with this, and then my client's going to probably do this, and then this is going to happen, then this, and then if the other side just did this. But that's probably not realistic, so I got to figure that out. What. What could they do? If you actually did that before every negotiation, you will do more deals and you will make more money because you will start thinking of the negotiation as an entire movement instead of just your side of the game, submitting offers or operating just for yourself or just for your client. Like, no one ever watched a movie about one person. Maybe that movie existed once and it sucked and it was boring and no one cared, right? You want to watch ensembles. You want to see how you get to the end. How do you get there? Right? Like, everyone knows every Shakespeare story of all time, but you watch it for hours because you want to see how they get there. How do they get there?

What happens?

I know they die, but, like, how? And that's the dance. And I think great negotiators figure out what their cadence is and how they do that dance. And then you sprinkle in some personality in there, some tough skin, you know, and you could be great.

You know, what I love about that.

Idea of thinking of yourself as a composer trying to compose a beautiful negotiation is that you realize that as you consider the tempo and the cadence and those type of things, there's going to be an ebb and flow. There's going to be a part where you might not be sure exactly where the beat's going to go next. Right. But it helps us to recognize that there are going to be different feelings and tensions in different parts of the negotiation. Because I think that goes back to what we were talking about with persistency and resilience when things get really tough. Because then you can say, this is just part of the dance. This is part of the beautiful ensemble I'm putting together, and it helps you to flow with it a little bit better.

Agreed?

Yeah. Oh, this is good. This is good. Now listen, Ryan, before you go, let me ask you, do you have any tips on where somebody could get a really great sales training program? Any idea?

Sell it like sirhant.com thanks for the layup. I appreciate it.

I got you, man.

Yell it likesirhant.com we will put the.

Link in the description of the episode. Everybody. Ryan, I really appreciate it. This was really great. Thank you.

I hope this was the best episode you've ever had.

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