Negotiating for The Life You Deserve with Dionne Nicholls

Hey, everyone, and welcome to our Throwback episode. In our Throwback episodes, we are reintroducing you to some of our most popular episodes. This is great for new listeners who want to learn more about the work we've done in the past. And it's a great refresher if you've been a listener for a long time. Enjoy. Dion, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us.

Oh, it's so good to be here. Kwame. Thank you for having me. This is good.

Yeah, it's my pleasure. So how would you get us started? By telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do.

Sure, why not? So my name is Dionne Nichols, and I am a life and wardrobe stylist. I'm also the host of a YouTube series called what Gives yous Life? So I actually get to work with amazing women. They live these very multifaceted lives. They are leaders in their community. They are mothers, they are wives, they are entrepreneurs, they're owners, and they still want more. And so that's when they. That's when they come to me. And whether it's working on their purpose, whether it's working on a new, you know, a new venture, we can work on the being. That's a big focus of what I do in terms of my coaching. It's the actual ontological approach to coaching. And once we've worked on that being, if they would like to work on their look, I can do that, too. So I can work with women from the inside out.

That's fantastic.

Cool.

Yeah, that is really cool. That is really cool. And let's also give the listeners how we first met, too.

Oh, yeah. This feels like we're coming 360, actually, because I remember when I actually was struggling personally around, I was actually consulting at the time. And I've always had this challenge when it comes to advocating for myself. I've always been very good about advocating for others. But when it came to my salary, at the time, I was working as an independent contractor, and I was trying to negotiate my first big contract with a client in midtown Manhattan. And I said, you know what? I need to up my negotiation skills. So I landed on your podcast and fell in love. And then one day you offered free 30 minute complimentary sessions. And I was like, wow, you know what? Let me give it a shot. And I got through. I couldn't believe it. I booked. You got on the call. I remember your son was, I guess, acting up in the house, so you had to get in your car to do the injury. I just thought you were so real and down to earth. That's the first thing that I noticed. And, yeah, you gave me some really great tips, and I knocked it out, got the client, by the way. But what I loved is you said, dionne, let's stay in touch. And a lot of times people say that, but you really did. And we've done some really cool things together. You know, you've actually been on my podcast that I used to be a part of, just all the exciting things that we've done. So it feels really good to actually be here with you. I think it's four years later, right?

Yeah, it's crazy. It's cool to see how we've been able to collaborate on some things professionally, too. And I feel like I'm on your team. You're on my team. Has been great. And remembering this story reminds me of those good old days when I used to have free time to give free sessions for listeners.

I'm gonna say lucky me, you know, I know those are few and far between now.

Right, well, great. Well, let's jump into this. And I really love this topic. And so we're talking about how you can negotiate your way to a better life, and you're the perfect person to talk about this. So before we get into the three things that we're going to discuss, why is it so important for the listeners to understand how they can use negotiation to improve their life?

Sure. So I don't know if I mentioned it earlier, but the name of my brand is live your best life for you. So that for you part is very significant. So, as I mentioned earlier, my clientele is predominantly women, and they're predominantly mothers. So we already know we're givers by nature. Right. And we love to make sure that we're there for everyone else. Right. So what I find one of the biggest challenges are for my clients and why it's so important to really hone in on your negotiations. Because in having those difficult conversations is that a lot of them have a hard time saying no, and a lot of it comes back to self worth. So if you have a lot already going on in your life, right, you're making sure that the kids are okay and husband's okay, and making sure church commitments are made and, you know, the fundraisers being taken care of, and you're making sure the boss is getting what they need, and you're getting lost in the sauce because you're not getting what you need. Right. So in the end, you're. A lot of my clients are feeling a Bit depressed. They're feeling pulled in so many different directions and just not feeling fulfilled at the end of the day. Right. So that's why it's so important to not, to not lose yourself. Right. And be. Have the strength to really negotiate for what you do want.

I love that. Yeah, this is great. And it's perfectly in line with our motto here. The best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. And when we master this, we're putting ourselves in a position to live that best life. And that this is great. I'm excited about this. And so the three things that we're talking about today, the three focuses. First, we're going to dig deeper into how we can specifically use these conversations to improve your life. So just big picture, how can we do this? What are the opportunities that exist? The second thing is how we should set clear boundaries. And then you're going to tell a fun story about that that we can use to analyze it. And then in the third part, we're going to reanalyze that story, but with a backward looking perspective. Because one of the things that we always are doing is we're evaluating the quality of the decisions that we've made. And so what we're doing here is we're going backwards and analyzing the story to see, okay, we're was this a good decision, was this a bad decision? How can we make that determination? And more importantly, how can we learn how to make that determination in the moment? So this is gonna be great. So let's start off with how we can actually use these conversations to improve our lives. Where should we start? There.

Absolutely. So you can see where this could be useful in your family dynamics, in your friendships at work. Right. As you do this all day, every day, we are in negotiations in every area of our life. So whether it's to make sure that we are getting the best, we're not leaving money on the table. If we're going up for a new position, if at home, maybe mom is taking on all of the chores and feeling completely run down after her full day of work, if we don't feel strong enough to stand for what we need and ask for our partner or the kids to pitch in, all of that affects us. And then if we aren't at our best, we also know what happens. And if I have to get, you know, kind of go into my coach hat, you know, in terms of the ontological aspect of this, when we are not living in our essence. Right. We are definitely living from somewhere else. That's our survival mechanism. So when we're at that point, we tend to be a lot shorter with our family. There's a lot less patience. There's probably a lot more arguments, right? Not as much of a fun atmosphere where we feel safe and relaxed in our own space. Right? So we're seeing just how, you know, in our home life, how important it is to make sure that we're actually having the direct conversations, the difficult conversations with our spouses and our children for what we need.

This is great. And so one of the things I like to do is play devil's advocate here, because I want to push us deeper and really explore different aspects of this. So let's play devil's advocate here. So let's say somebody is listening and saying, dion, I hear you. I hear you. But this is all pie in the sky type of stuff, because I have stuff to do. I have stuff to do. As much as I would love to advocate for myself and be a little bit selfish, I can't, because other people are depending on me. So how can I start doing this and asking for what I need and what I want when so many other people are depending on me to do well?

Yes, that's a good one. So what I'm hearing in that right now is the guilt, right? I'm not there for them. Will they not, you know, maybe they won't love me as much, Right? Will I look like the bad guy if I. If I'm not there and dependable for them all the time? If I'm saying yes to them all the time, what is it costing me? What am I saying no to? Right? At the end of the day, a lot of the times when we're so busy focusing on others because we believe they're depending on us, what are we neglecting in ourselves that needs to be maybe looked at or resolved within ourselves, right? What are we neglecting? Because we're so busy being in everybody else's stuff, right? So those are just some of the. Some of the things that I would look at and ways to get around that. Because a lot of what you're saying, it's really getting into the feelings, right? So that's when I really get my clients to really focus and get clear on what they're committed to. So what are your commitments, then? It takes the fleeting feelings out of it, and you're getting really clear on, okay, what do I value? What are my core values and beliefs? What are my goals? What are my dreams? And that way, if I know, self care, because self care makes sure. That I can be more present, more patient for a more fruitful connection with my husband and my kids. As much as I know everybody's depending on me and sorry, I think I was Italian in my past life by the way, just so you know, I'm very animated. So if I know that I need to be committed to self care, if not, I will not have as rich a connection with my family. That's why I make sure I block out that hour of time. So it may seem like minuscule, right, that hour of time, but that hour time is just enough to make sure I can pour back into my family in a healthier way.

Absolutely. And so to recap this, because I think these are some fantastic points, is that a lot of times that feeling that prevents us from even taking the step of having these conversations is guilt. Right. Because we're not. We feel guilty, but it's a feeling, not a truth. Right. You know, it's not a situation where the world will in fact crumble if you take a step back. It reminds me of a book, I can't remember which book it was, but there was a somebody at a job and they felt obligated to keep on sending out this report every month. And this report was very labor intensive, very detailed and everything. And the person said, I hate doing this report, hate doing this. And then they said, what happens if you just don't do it? Oh, everything would go like fall apart. Have you, Are you sure about that though? And so they said, just don't send it out one month, see what happens. Nobody sent anything. Same thing happened the next month. And they say, wow, I used to think this was so vital, but people survived. And I think a lot of times what we do is we create a little bit of dependency on the people from the people around us where if we can step back, we. And challenge that assumption that these people need us. Oh wait, no, no, no. They can be a little bit more self sufficient. And coming back to what you said in doing this, it's one of the best things you can do so you can be there at a higher level. Because if we are burning ourselves out now, we're not performing as well. But if we take some time to rest, then we can be our best selves by setting effective boundaries and really advocating for what we need.

Yes. And then you added one other piece of this question. So how do you do that in the moment? Right. So two things I've given my clients. One, it sounds funny, but it works, right? Because I love Brett A. Brown and she'll say, okay, what's the story that I'm making up? So you see that the example you just gave, right? The story I'm making up is that if I don't put out this report, the world will crumble, basically, right? So the one I like to give is, can I have a bowl of this? Right. In other words, what? Another way I also ask myself is what do I know to be true? So I know I'm a supportive mother, I'm a loving mother, that if I don't, if I say no to something to give myself some self care, it doesn't make me a bad mom. That is what I know to be true. So it's just kind of having that self talk with yourself in the moment is me really taking some time for self care, making me an unreliable unfit mother. Yeah, right. Or can I have a bowl of this? Me, not me taking an hour for myself makes me a bad mom. Can I have a bowl of that? It's not true, it's not a fact. I cannot have a bowl of that. It sounds strange, but in the moment it can disrupt that. That tape recorder in your mind, you know that. Oh, if I'm not there for them all the time, what will they think of me? You know?

Yeah, this is great because what we're talking about, we're getting really deep and I knew we would. This is metacognition, right? You have cognition, which is just thinking. Then you have metacognition, which is thinking about thinking. Right. And so what we're doing here is we're challenging those initial assumptions, the stories as you're calling it, as you're saying. I think that's a great way to put it. Right? So, okay, this is the story. A lot of times we just say, okay, that's the truth, and we move on and we just keep on going. But if we slow down and take a second and say, well, hey, that's what I thought, do I know that to be true? Is this appropriate? Is there another way? And essentially we're negotiating with ourselves, demonstrating some internally directed curiosity. And it allows us to make a higher level analysis and a more complete analysis of the situation so we can make a better decision in the moment.

Absolutely. We're getting higher, we're getting above the circumstance. Right. So you're getting a better view, as you said, a more well rounded view of the entire picture. So I love that.

Fantastic. Well, this is a perfect time to transition into the second part when we're talking about setting boundaries with clear communication and so let's start off with why that's so important. And we've touched on this a little bit, but let's just really make it clear why so important and then let's go into the case study that we have here.

Sure. So I mentioned I'm a big Brene Brown fan. Right. I've got two for you. One clear is kind, unclear is unkind. That's the importance of clear communication for the other person and for yourself. The second one, and I actually have this printed and I have it up on my bedroom wall because it's something that I had to work through. Right. When it comes to setting boundaries. And she has the most beautiful quote, setting boundaries is the courage to love yourself enough, even if it means disappointing others. That's why it's so important. There's actually a stat from. I understand that she also, because, you know, she's very much about the research, that people who are good at setting boundaries tend to have a higher self worth. They have a higher self love. So the more you can practice and build that muscle, guess what? The love you have for yourself is going up at the same time because you're willing to have the courage to stand for yourself and what your needs are.

Okay, now let's talk about this, because this is the second time you brought this up because we're talking about self worth, self love. Right. Valuing yourself. Why is that so important in the context of setting effective boundaries and advocating for yourself, negotiating for your best life?

Sure. There's the financial aspect which I touched on earlier. Right. I think you mentioned the stat that, you know, we. Because we don't see our worth. Right. We're more timid when it comes to negotiating. So out the gate, you know, we're seeing this disparity between, you know, salaries between men and women. It's not just about, you know, sexism. Some of it has to do with our own self worth and belief that we are worthy of. Of more right in our relationships. We may be in certain cycles and relationships, maybe much longer than we normally should be because we're not willing to speak up for what we need. It may actually be taking a toll on us, not only emotionally, mentally, physically, because we're not speaking up for ourselves. I'm trying to think of what else. I mean, there's so many reasons why it's important. I also want to flip it over in that when you're not setting boundaries or if someone. So I should say this, if someone gets mad that you're setting boundaries, it means they were benefiting from you not having any. So you may be having people around you, because I do have quite a few clients as well who do suffer with the people pleasing. Right. And you may have people around you who are just sucking the life out of you. Right. Because they can get away with it. So you're. You're leaving this relationship drained most of the time because they're not. They're not pouring back into you. So we can see that you may be in unhealthy, toxic situations because you have been able to see that without boundaries, this person may not be in your life.

Mm. This is great. And I think, again, let's bring it to the salary example, because I think it's so obvious how we can. How we can quantify this. Right. So let's say if you're. If you're making $100,000 and you have an opportunity to negotiate for more, if you think you are worth $120,000, it makes it more likely for you to ask for $120,000. Right. But if you think I'm worth $100,000 or you're questioning whether or not you are even worth $100,000, then you're not going to advocate for more. And then we can bring it back to the home life, too. Right. I need to work really hard. Work really hard. Hey, slow down. Take a break. Do I deserve an hour for myself? If you don't believe you deserve it, then you're now going to ask for it. Right. And so, again, this is really where it comes from. It's. Again, people might tune into the podcast and say, hey, Kwame, just tell me the negotiation techniques, the negotia strategies. What do I need to do or say in order to be successful? But it's a lot more than that, because if you do not believe that you deserve what you're asking for, either, number one, you will not ask for it, guaranteeing your loss, or number two, you're going to ask for it, but it'll be tepid. Right. You're not going to be fully engaged or as Brene Brown would say, wholeheartedly engaged in the conversation, and then you're not going to be as persuasive. So even if you do execute on the techniques that we provide, you're not going to be persuasive in doing so.

Oh, they'll sniff you out in a second.

Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. Good stuff.

Well, yeah, let's talk about the example. The example of setting boundaries that came up pretty recently.

Sure. I mean, you called it a Fun story. I don't know if it was fun in the moment, I'll tell you that, but it was a great learning. So I've got a 16 year old as of December 1st. And I remember when he came to us, it seemed quite a few years ago, asking for an earring. He wanted to get earrings. And I remember his father and I saying, okay, when you turn 16. Well, who knew 16 would get here so fast? And these kids are like elephants. They don't forget. Okay, so right on clockwork, about a few days before the first. He's reminding us right now. He ended up going to Canada, where both myself and his father originally from. It was just after the Thanksgiving Day holiday. Also his cousin's birthday. And his. Right. Turns out his cousin is turning 14 and getting earrings. So guess what? I get a phone call all the way from Ottawa, Ontario, saying, mom. Because now the conversation is coming back up again. Can I get an earring for my birthday? And I just wasn't ready. I know we had agreed to it, but let me just double check with your father one more time. Are you sure we said 16? And his dad confirmed we did, you know, but I guess the key part here was when he called me, right? I could hear somebody in the background, but my son is calling me. He just wants to know how I'm doing. And I was like, oh, what is going on here? I'm doing great. Thanks for asking. You know, I can hear someone feeding him. You know, the lines. So that's Auntie. That's Auntie. I said, okay. So I said, what's up, Chase? So he gave me the. What he really wanted, right? What he was buttering me up for. And like I said, I wasn't ready. I said, how does your dad feel about this? And by the way, did I mention I was on speakerphone? So everybody's hearing this conversation as well. I didn't realize that at the beginning. Okay, so his dad says from the background, dion, I'm okay with it. And this is why, you know, it's not permanent. You know, as long as he is keeping up his grades, you know, making sure he's showing up for his college prep program. If he's not, we can always take it out. If it was a tattoo or something, it'd be a different story. No, I couldn't go for that. So I'm like, okay. I said, okay, Chase. So your dad said, as long as you're, you know, doing what you need to do, taking care of business, you can have your earring. Asked him Very clearly, I said, so did you attend your college prep program today? And it was crickets. So I said, chase, your dad made it very clear that as long as you are taking care of business, you can have your earring for. What you're not telling me right now is you're saying that you did not attend your class as scheduled, Right? It was the last thing I told you before you left on your trip. I said, you also had it alarmed in your phone. So he had the reasons. All the reasons. Well, mom, I'm on vacation. I turned off my alarm. But I said, well, you heard what your dad said. On the condition that you're meeting your, you know, your great expectations and showing up and fully engaged for your college prep, you could get the earrings. Unfortunately, I cannot agree to. Was one of the hardest things that I ever did, because just picture it. All his cousins, at least six of them, are there. So all the boy cousins are there. Even auntie's asking me, so, Dionne, why aren't you okay with it? Because she's letting her 14 year old. I have a 16 year old, so why aren't you? So even auntie, you know, is making me question my decision. Everyone's listening, of course. I even got felt emotional a bit, you know, so I can't lie. My voice was raised a little bit. I did feel confronted, you know, I felt. I felt ambushed, really and truly. So it was tough. I felt like the heavy. Just think about that. Everyone else is rooting for Team Earring, and I'm the only one saying no. So it was hard, but I stuck to my guns. And he said, okay, Mom. And I said, have a great time, you know, I'll see you when you get back. Kwame. I'm in the bathroom in the mirror. I'm like, oh, he's my one and only. It's hard for me to say no to my son, by the way, but I almost called him back because I felt bad, you know, I'm really feeling, you know, hearts tugging, right? It's his 16th birthday. He's supposed to be having fun. I said, no while his cousin's gonna be getting his. Can you imagine how he's feeling if he's not getting. And he's gonna watch and how he's gonna. All the things you can imagine just swirling through my head. But something made me hesitate and not call him back. But would you know it? My son called me back, and I was so happy because it meant it was an opportunity, you know, to come to a resolution, right? And smooth things over with him. So my son, he said, mom, he used these words, by the way, I have a proposal. And I said, okay, Chase, what you got? What you got, right? So I already had to launch into it, though. I had to say, chase, I just want to apologize. You know, I didn't mean to raise my voice, but I'm sure you could understand that I felt confronted by the fact that I felt ambushed. You know, I didn't realize I was on speed. He said, mom, I completely understand why you'd feel that way. There was something about that being acknowledged, right? And I'm sure he appreciated the fact that I apologized for raising my voice, right? So then I let him. I give him an opportunity to then share his proposal. So he said, I emailed the school program to let them know that I am on vacation, that I forgot that I had class, and I made sure that I copied you on it. I said, wow, Chase, that's great that you took the initiative. I said, this is also a lesson in life, by the way, because there's going to be breakdowns in life, but it's how you handle it, right? So the fact you owned your breakdown by, you know, being proactive, sending them the message. I said, you're going to see in business, things are going to happen, but in life in general, but by owning it, you know, being clear with your communication, there's an opportunity to resolve things and find a solution. So I said, that's great. You know, he said, I spoke with dad. He said, as long as I keep up my grades and all of that, can I get the earring? I said, okay, Chase. Well, I said, how much effort would you say you're putting in right now? Because I know your dad had mentioned we'd love to see you on the honor roll. I said, what would it take in terms of effort to go from. Because he's in basically high 70s, 80s, 90s? I said, what would it take for you to start getting 90s across the board? I said, how much. How much energy are you putting in now? He said, I would say 85%. I said, okay, so if we can get an extra 20, what is it, 10? I said, what did I say? 20%? I guess I said, an extra 50. I think it's an extra 10% out of you. Can you do that? And he said, yes. And I said, okay, so you're going to go for honor roll? We're going to do extra 10% effort, and we're going to start meeting weekly so we can check in. So things aren't falling through the cracks. Are you good with that? He said, okay, deal. I said, okay, Chase, enjoy your earrings. So even though we he still got what he wanted, I felt so much better with the way how things went in the end. So he did get his earring, but at the same time, I felt like he now really understood and he always understood the importance of his education. And, yeah, that. That was really a message that was driven home here as well.

There are so many good things about this story. First of all, clearly a testament to how good you are as a mother, because coming back with, I have a proposal, making adjustments, apologizing, fantastic. That is beyond the age, like, the wisdom beyond the age of 16. So kudos to you on that. And you ended it by saying he got what he wanted, but you did, too. Yes, you did, too. You got a commitment from him to try harder. He admitted that he wasn't trying hard enough, and you got a commitment to do it. And it refocused him on the value of education. So you got exactly what you wanted out of that situation. And there's so many teachable moments here. First, let's talk about the other side, because we can recognize how that was a strategic mistake on his part and the people around him to ambush you. And so let's say if it. I'm using air quotes for the folks listening on podcast, it worked. If it worked for them and then you caved in and you gave in to their demands, did they really win? At what cost? Because it would have caused a significant rift in your relationship with each of those people because you felt manipulated. It was a pressure tactic. And so even if they got what they wanted in that. In that interaction, it would have diminished overall value because the relationship that you had would have gone down as a result. So just a strategic consideration for all of you listeners out there. Don't ambush people. They don't like that. Okay, that's a big one. One of the things you said was you weren't ready for the conversation, for the way that it happened, and it was hard. And I think that's one thing that we all have to recognize, because learning these skills and techniques, it doesn't automatically mean that these conversations are going to feel good or feel easy. But we can't look at that emotional feeling of discomfort and use that as a signal that we are not on the right path, because sometimes it's a sign that we actually are and we have to push through it. And slowing down for everybody else out there, slowing down in these situations is crazy. Critical, because another thing was you said you stuck to your guns, you stuck to your values. Right. You had to slow it down and say, what do I really want out of this interaction? And then it became clear. And so once you are focused on your goals and you know what you care about and what's important to you, then the actions in order to get there become a lot clearer. They start to present themselves. And even though it's not easy to take those actions in the moment, you did it, and you got the outcome that you wanted.

Yes. Yes. If. If it. If they had one. You're absolutely right. I would have felt a lot of resentment. I would have said yes. But with all this resentment behind it, I'm sure every time I looked at my son in those earrings, I'd be glaring. Do you know what I mean? What would I be teaching my son? That manipulation is how you get what you want. Right. So there were so many reasons why I'm happy it didn't go the way it could have. Like you said.

Yeah, this is great. And so let's take a second. Let's transition into the third point, because let's deepen our analysis of this story because it's such a great case study. So in the moment, like I said, sometimes we let our emotions dictate what it is that we do in the moment. And so, again, when we look back on that, we can say, yeah, Dion, good job. You made the right decision. That's great to do. Speaking from the future. Right. But let's talk about in the moment. How can you tell what the right thing to do is?

Well, I'll say this. Something I think that was key is Chase understood. I didn't just say no for no sake. It was not about my emotions. I wasn't feeling like I was ready for him to get earrings. There was a condition that was presented, and because that condition was not met, my no could be a true, strong, heartfelt no.

Yeah. That's powerful.

I think that's why I knew it was a good decision, as hard as it was.

Right. Yeah. And I think that's one of the easiest things that you can do to help people to respect the boundaries that you're setting. Right. There's a reason you're not just arbitrarily denying their needs or wants. Right. There's a clear reason why you're putting up that boundary, and you communicate that clearly. Right. And one of the things, too, that I hear from people, again, going back to how hard it is in the moment to make the right Decision. Remember this. The negotiation happens if you want it to, it doesn't if you don't want it to. Again, you have to consider strategically if that's appropriate. But the thing is, if you don't want to talk, you don't have to talk. And one of the easiest things you can do when you don't know what to do or say is to say, I'm not sure what the right decision is to do right now, so I'd like some time to talk. And you might not want to articulate it that way, but the way that I do it is I say, you know what? You brought up some good points. Let me think about this. No, no, you need to make an answer now. Sometimes people will pressure you, and they'll say, no, I need an answer now. I need an answer now. Here's the easiest thing you can say to that. Well, if you need an answer now, the answer has to be no. Oh, okay. Well, they find a way to become a little bit patient then, with that. Yeah. So, yeah, you don't want to make decisions under pressure.

Right.

Take the time, slow it down. And the vast majority of the time, you don't need to make a decision in this moment. You might have a day, you might have a week. You don't want it to turn into indecision, and you don't want it to turn into knowingly avoiding a difficult conversation. But at the same time, you want to make sure that you're giving yourself the space to think through things at a higher level.

Yes. Actually, weren't we talking about these the other day, being quick to listen and slow to respond?

Yes, that's right.

Yeah. Just having a little more time to analyze the situation. So it's just a little more thoughtful, you know? And that way, you're not, you know, acting out of emotion or triggers. Right. And really making sure you've thought it through. And so you can really feel, you know, grounded in your. In your. In your choice.

Definitely.

Yeah.

This is great. This is great. So before we wrap this up, what other parting words of wisdom do you have? What is, for instance, something that our audience can do today to start negotiating for a better life?

So, Kwame, if I could give your audience just one last parting piece of wisdom. I have to say, the reason I think it felt so good, the way things played out in the end is because it was collaborative. The fact that we both had buy in to what we wanted to create. Right. So the fact that I was able to feel heard and give what my input and needs are right. And he was able to do the same. And we agreed on, we came to a common ground. And then I didn't mention this part, but then we brought his father in to make sure we're all on the same page. That felt so much better. So the fact that we worked together to find, you know, the resolution, that collaborative experience, we got so much more. And that's where we got the acknowledgement, the vulnerability, the learnings, the connection. There was so much growth that took place because of that collaborative opportunity.

That's great. And actually, let's take a brief second to dig into this. 1.2. How did you feel about yourself, let's say two or three days later, when you've had some time to process the fact that you don't like saying no to your son. So let's say two or three days later, when you looked back on that moment, how did you feel about yourself?

Oh, so I felt so much more empowered around the decision. If it had gone the other way, I would have felt very powerless and disempowered around that decision. And I'm going to give you an interesting story. And because of the way I handled this particular situation, when I had a client coaching call, if not a day or two later, who had a situation where she said yes to something but had so much resentment around it because I did the work, I was able to give her so many learnings and jewels from the way I handled my experience. Because when you're coaching somebody else, you want to make sure that you're always doing your work so that you can give better, better direction. So on so many levels, I was, I felt so much more empowered.

That's great.

Personal level and professional level.

That's great. This is great, you know, because what we're recognizing is that this is a positive feedback loop, right? You start to set that boundary, it improves the quality of your life because you are negotiating for your best life for you, as your brand would say, right? And at the same time, every time you approach these conversations in the right way, despite how difficult it is, you gain more confidence, which makes it more likely for you to do the right thing in the future, which makes it more likely for you to start living that best life for you. So again, everybody, it's not easy. It's still hard for me. You all know this. I'm a recovering people pleaser. I talk about it in my book and my TED Talk, all that, right? We're all in this boat. But every time that we flex this muscle, we get a little bit stronger. So I hope you all feel encouraged to take that step and start advocating for yourself. And before you go, Dion, again, let everybody know about your business and how they can get in touch with you.

Absolutely. So you can definitely hit up my website, Live youe Best Life for your, where you can really see the whole world of my brand. So that's the show, my YouTube series, what gives you life. You can check me out there. The channel is also called Live youe Best Life for your. My handle is eonneichols. So D I O N N E N I C H O L L S I also want to make sure everybody knew that I have this amazing event that's coming up February 20th, and it is called the Great act of Love. And it's going to be a celebration of women of color by their fellow men. And it's just going to be a beautiful virtual event of love and healing, but basically men just pouring into their women of color through gratitude, reflection, empowerment, affirmation, and testimony. So that's the acronym. Great without expectation, Just being of service. The keynote speaker. I can't wait to divulge. I can't do it yet, but it's going to be awesome. Musical performances, you name it. You'll see all the information on the website. So really, really excited about that. That's February 20th.

Fantastic. Dion, my friend, thank you so much for coming and sharing your wisdom with us. We really appreciate it.

Thank you so much. Kwame, this was amazing.

Congratulations. You've just joined an elite club by the listening to a full episode. You're now officially on the Negotiate Anything team. So welcome aboard. What most team members do is they subscribe to the podcast because that allows them to automatically get the latest episodes of the show. The best things in life lie on the other side of difficult conversations. Keep learning, keep practicing, and keep getting better. Your relationships will improve, your career will soar, and you'll have the confidence you need to get the most out of these crucial conversations. Again, thank you for joining the team. We are excited to have you, and I will see you in the next episode. I'll catch you later.