Negotiating with Kids & Teens - LinkedIn Live Event

Hello, my friend, and welcome to another exciting episode of Negotiate Anything Live. In this special segment, we're sharing one of our LinkedIn Live events where listeners like you can join the conversation and shape the episode with your comments and questions. We've put a link to the event in the description of today's episode, but make sure to follow me on LinkedIn so you can join the conversation next time. I'm really glad you're with us today. With over 10 million downloads and listeners from more than 180 different countries, it's dedicated listeners just like you who have made Negotiate Anything the number one negotiation podcast in the world. I'm your host, Kwame Christian. I'm a business lawyer, mediator, author, and the proud CEO of the American Negotiation Institute. Now, before we dive into today's episode, I have a golden opportunity for those of you who recognize the power of negotiation in your professional lives. At the American Negotiation Institute, we've crafted specialized keynotes and workshops tailored for those very needs. We've transformed the negotiation skills of professionals worldwide, and we're eager to do the same for you. We believe the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. And our goal is to help you improve your lives and the lives of those around you, one difficult conversation at a time. Don't let another challenging conversation leave you second guessing. Click the link in the description to discover how we can help you find confidence in conflict, negotiate better deals, and have stronger relationships. Because in the world of business, every conversation counts. And now, without further ado, let's jump into the interview. Hey, everybody, welcome to another LinkedIn Live. Let's start this off with the same way we start off every LinkedIn Live, just making sure we are, in fact, live. So just go ahead, put in the comments, let us know where you're coming in from. Where in the world are you? I'm in Ohio right now. Last week I was in Amsterdam, which is really fun. Had a meeting there with booking.com, which I did not realize until we booked that meeting. Their headquarters is in Amsterdam, so that meeting went well. And then my birthday was last week, so some friends and I, we, we hung out in Amsterdam, had some fun, and now we're back to reality. So where are you all coming in from? Let us know. Atlanta. Man, I am in Atlanta. Feels like weekly. It's hard for me in Ohio to get anywhere without being routed through Atlanta first. So I'm in. I'm in Atlanta all the time. So thank you for coming in there. This is great. Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates. Very cool. Very cool. Great. So we got people from all around the world. This is awesome. Well, let's go ahead and get started, peeps. I, I'm excited for this one. I'm excited for this one. This is going to be good. We're talking about how to negotiate with kids and teens. And before we even get into the topic, let me just say this. I have two kids and it's. I don't. It's hard for me to consider myself like an expert on this because I feel like every parent is just trying to figure it out as they go along. But we're going to try our best to just continue to get a little bit better. So I have two kids, two years old and then almost eight, eight on Thursday, which will be great. But I should actually do an official introduction now that I know people are coming in here. So we have Atlanta, Abu Dhabi. We have Palm Springs, California. We have Spain. Hola. You see, I speak Spanish. Hola. We have Algeria. Jacksonville, Florida. Alabama. There we go. Paris. Paris, very nice. Wait, from Eurostar. You're on a. Is that a plane? You're on a plane watching. That's pretty sick. Very cool. And Colombia. Aha. This is great. We listen. We got a lot of represent representation from Spanish speaking countries. Confidentia. Confidentia. Confianza. Is it confidencia? Listen, my Spanish is oxidado, but I can get through it every once in a while. So this is great. This is great. Let's rock on. So let me do the official intro. Hello and welcome to another exciting episode of Negotiate Anything. Thank you for joining us today. So whether you're coming in from LinkedIn Live, listening on the podcast, or listening in our future YouTube videos, welcome. And so if you like the content, make sure to give us a like and subscribe. If you're listening on a podcast, five star reviews help. They cost you nothing but mean a lot to me. And then if you're on LinkedIn and this is your first time being introduced to, to my content, welcome. Give me a follow. We, we produce content like this all the time. So our goal is to be as generous as possible and share very generously all of the information that we have for free. That's our goal, to be the, the leading organization when it comes to free content on negotiation and conflict resolution. Cool. All right, so let's get into it. So first, when we're thinking about as, you know, as parents, but also as people who interact with children, one of the key things that we have to address is this very seminal question. Should we negotiate with kids? If no, why is that? If yes, why is that? Now, of course, I should disclaim my bias here. As the CEO of the American Negotiation Institute, of course I say yes, but I want to hear what you all think in the comments. Should we negotiate with kids? And as we answer this question, we have to ask ourselves, what is negotiation? What is it? So the definition that I use for negotiation is a negotiation is anytime you're in a conversation and somebody in the conversation wants something. Anytime you're in a conversation and somebody in the conversation wants something, that's when you're negotiating. So when you use that definition, you recognize, number one, you're negotiating all the time. And number two, it's actually hard to find situations where you are not negotiating. This is going to be a ubiquitous element of our existence as humans. We're always going to be negotiating. So usually it's not a case of whether or not we're negotiating, it's just a case of whether or not we're negotiating. Well. Right. This is really important. And then we also see that the people that we negotiate with the most are the people who are closest to us. So we often think about negotiation as this really lofty type of interaction, transactional interactions that happen relatively infrequently or at work. But with this broader definition, we can recognize we're negotiating all the time. And that provides us with a signal to have these conversations and lean in and utilize the skills of negotiation when we are negotiating. Okay? And when you think about that definition, we're going to be negotiating with the kids in our life all the time. Now, here's the thing. For me, I'm a Caribbean American first generation, so my dad is from Dominica, my mom is from Guyana. And this is a whole mindset shift for me. And I'm sure the. The folks who are immigrants can probably relate to this. I did not grow up with rights. My parents were not negotiating with me. They told me what to do, said, yes, mom, yes, dad, and I did it right. And so for me, this is a bit of a paradigm shift to parent in this type of way, where we are using a little bit more discourse and not as much force, right? Because as parents, you. You really have supreme leverage. You own everything that the kid uses, and they don't really have any. Like, of course, you have to keep them safe, no doubt. But as far as, like, the rights that they have, they really come from you. You provide for them in a lot of ways. So you have supreme leverage. Right? So you could Just force your kids to do things. But why should we instead choose a more diplomatic approach? Why should we engage in conversations with our children versus telling them what to do? Because that's really the dichotomy that we face. Right? We could either negotiate with them and try to help them to see things differently, try to persuade them to make the right decision, or we could just simply tell them what to do. So that's a core issue because what I'm looking at, when I'm looking at the chat, I'm seeing that my most people are saying, yes, we should. And I mean, if, if you showed up to something called how to negotiate with kids and Teens, I'm assuming you say yes, we should negotiate with them. Right. But I think it's important for us to dig deeply into that and figure out why we should. Here's, here's a good comment. I think we should negotiate with them. I think about what needs to be said carefully. I craft the message in advance and I keep it brief and then it's his option to continue it or not. And that's Lucia, frequent podcast guest and a friend of the show. So thank you for that. And yeah, I like that because we're giving them the opportunity to make a decision. And I see another comment in coming from Amanda too. It's so they understand the why behind. Behind what we're asking. Exactly. Amanda, very well said. And I think that really gets to the heart of this all because for me, when I think about the conversations I have with mainly Kai, Kai is going to be eight this week. Dominic, he's two. You know, we're just, we're trying to survive these terrible twos with him, but more so with Kai. My goal is to parent toward obsolescence. And so what do I mean by that? I want to parent them in a way where they don't need me. They will continue to need me, no doubt. Right. I'm not going to say, hey, you're nine, be free and, and good luck. Right? That's not what I'm going for. But I'm trying to create self sufficient adults. That's what I'm parenting toward. And I recognize that if I just tell them what to do, there's no instruction behind it. They don't understand the why behind it, just like Amanda said. And so I want them to grasp the underpinnings of what a good decision is. I want them to understand how to think critically and move toward the right answer themselves because I'm not always going to be there. Right. We're not always going to be there. So we want to be able to approach these difficult conversations in a way that allows them to understand what critical thought went into the decision making process. So when you're not present, then they can make the best decision possible even though you're not there. So this is a completely different paradigm shift because we're helping them to think. We're teaching them how to think, not telling them what to think. It's a very subtle shift, but it's very meaningful. The other thing too is if we're on LinkedIn, we, we have some kind of business life, right? You're listening to this oftentimes because you want business advice. I think about this as conversational cross training too. So the elements that I bring into the conversations with my kids are going to be elements that I bring into my basic negotiations in my everyday life as a lawyer or as a business business leader. Because my mentality when it comes to any type of difficult conversation is that everything is practice. Everything is practice, right? So if I have this difficult conversation with Kai and he's having a meltdown, I want to be able to have the resilience to be able to stay in that conversation and maintain my emotional stability because I know it's beneficial to him, because I'm showing him how he should engage in difficult conversations for when he's an adult. So yes, there's a parenting benefit there. But I know for me, if I can keep my cool when my kids are melting down after a long day of work, I know that when I have a business negotiation and the other side might be throwing a tantrum, I know that I can keep my cool too. Because I maybe it's just me, but the difficult conversations I have at home and the negotiations I have with my kids, especially when they're having meltdowns, are far more difficult than the business negotiations I have. So I think about it as practice. I'm going to stay in this because it'll make me emotionally more resilient for the everyday negotiations I have in the business world as well. So it checks multiple boxes there too. Hello, my friends. Before we get back to today's episode, I want to ask you a question. Have you ever wondered how to elevate your team's negotiation game and how you can help the folks on your team have better difficult conversations? At the American Negotiation Institute, we offer transformative keynotes and workshops tailored to empower professionals with top tier negotiation and confidence conflict resolution skills. Whether it's a keynote for your next event or hands on Training for your team. We've got you covered. Don't just negotiate. Master the art with the American Negotiation Institute. Click the link in the description to find out more. Elevate, negotiate, and succeed. The other thing, too. Now let's actually start to talk about how we have these conversations. Because we've been talking a lot about mindset and the philosophy behind parenting. In this type of way, we're actually engaging our children in discourse. We also have to think about how we do it. Okay, how do we have these difficult conversations? I think first, it's important for us to outline what makes these conversations so tough. Because as parents, we often make the joke, hey, man, these conversations with my kids are. Are infuriating. They're tough. They're challenging, right? But what is it that makes it so tough? Go ahead, put it in the chat, let us know. What do you think that makes it so tough? Because I think if we're going to find effective solutions for how we have these conversations, we have to be able to understand the anatomy of the difficulty. We understand it's difficult, but we might not have a full understanding of what in particular makes it so difficult. Because there are going to be two major elements that make it tough. I'll add a third one. But there are two main elements. So the first two have to deal with emotions. It's going to be the emotions of the child, but also your own emotions as well. So you are going to become emotional, and the child is going to become emotional. And so when you think about it psychologically, when you think about. Let's just talk about two major brain structures. And I'm going to try to simplify this as much as possible. So we have the amygdala. That's part of the limbic system. So this is where we process all emotions. And then we have the frontal lobe. This is at the front of the head here, big brain structure. And it's where we have logical reasoning, emotion management, executive executive function. The prefrontal cortex is located there. So we have rational thinking there. But there's an antagonistic relationship between the frontal lobe and the amygdala. So when you're more emotional, you're not thinking as clearly. When you're thinking clearer, you're less emotional. It's an either or type of proposition. And so what ends up happening is when they get emotional, they're not processing very well. If you get emotional, you're not processing very well. And so we have two illogical, irrational people emoting at each other. That's one element. So it's your emotions, number one, their emotions, number two, and then also the context. So what is the context? A lot of times this happens at home. But when do these tough conversations tend to happen? They tend to happen in the evening after work, if we're talking about during the week or on the weekend, too. Now, pre kids, the weekends were an oasis of restfulness and fun. I was like, let me look forward to Saturday and Sunday. I'm going to nap, I'm going to relax. I'm going to have a lot of time for myself. But now with two kids, it's like the weekends require a lot more energy than during the week. I started looking forward to Monday because that's when things get a little bit easier. And so when we're having these conversations after work and on the weekends, you have to understand that for you, you are probably cognitively depleted at that time. So there's a term called ego depletion. And so we have a certain amount of willpower that we can execute every day. It's kind of like a gas tank. And once that willpower is done, then we run into problems. So think about times where you might have been on a diet, and so you're really disciplined with your diet. So 6am you might go to the gym. Great. My diet's great. Go to work, my diet's great. Lunch at work, diet's great. Dinner, diet is great. And then right before you go to bed at 9pm what do you do? Your. Your mind's not like, you know what I should do? I should eat a salad. No, I'm gonna smash some ice cream. I'm tired. I worked really hard, and I used a lot of willpower. I've got none left. So here's what happens to our brains during the day. So we go and we're making decision after decision after decision after decision. And our brain gets more and more tired as the day goes on. And so we put a lot of effort into work. And then after work, we have to put a lot of effort into parenting. And we are cognitively tired, so we don't have the willpower necessary to be at our best. And so we have to really be able to understand what it is that makes these conversations so difficult so we can start to solve for those problems. And let's also think about at work, I can close the laptop. I could go home, and that is there. But when, like, it's just left there. But with at home, man, I'm going to be around these people for the rest of my life. You know that's not going away. And so the stakes are much, much higher. And so we want our children to be in a good position. And so it feels really heavy when we have to have these tough conversations because we can see the consequences reverberating into the future. And so it feels like it's really high stakes. So it's a high stakes conversation. You're emotional, they're emotional. So cognitively you're not at your best, and you're probably emotionally and cognitively fatigued. So it's a recipe for difficult conversations in that regard. But let's see what, what people are saying in the chat. So what, in your opinion, what are some of the things that makes it so tough? I'm from Kenya, and I relate to your story about growing up without negotiation rights. As a kid, negotiating with parents was taboo. Yeah. It was often seen as disrespectful. Like, how dare you question me? You know, like that. That. I think that is something that is associated with a lot of cultures too. But we also have to think about the ramifications for us as parents, for the kids as they get older. So we're teaching our kids not to question authority. And that's great if the authority is perfect. But I haven't met very many perfect people, you know, so that's really challenging. But now I feel it's really essential to teach our kids about such healthy practices. I feel it's essential for their adult life. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I see a question. Will this be recorded? Yes, it will be recorded. So you'll be able to get access to this in perpetuity. For sure. Tamika says, I think as parents, sometimes we underestimate our children's level of awareness, adaptability, and resilience. So we think they can't handle certain conversations, but often it's us who can't handle it. Absolutely. You have to realize, a lot of times we say that we're doing things to protect other people, but we're really trying to protect ourselves. It's our subconscious trying to protect ourselves. Oh, I. He can't handle this. No, I'm not going to tell him this. No, you are afraid to have the conversation. That's really what the issue is. Right. So I. I agree. 100. 100. Yeah. Parents often don't want to accept that they could be wrong. So true. So true. Yeah. And I think we, again, we have to let our kids know that we are not infallible, will make mistakes, too. And there it requires a lot of humility and vulnerability for you as a parent, to own up to that, because you have to think about it. You're not just showing them. You're not just telling them what to do. You're showing them how to live as well. So if you are having, if you're having a conversation with your kid and they're not accepting responsibility for the mistakes they made. Yes. Understand that psychologically as humans, that's going to be challenging for people to accept responsibility. But that might also be a learned behavior. They might have seen you make mistakes and not own up to it too. Right. So this provides us to an opportunity to, to, to teach them through our actions as well. I remember growing up, I, I thought my parents could do no wrong. No wrong. But I think there's going to be a more intimate relationship with me and my kids because they're going to see me growing and developing. So they're going to recognize dad's not perfect, I'm not perfect, it's okay, I can grow, you know, so that's, that's really important. Good. So, yeah, Another thing we have to pay attention to is the way that the brain develops. So let's go back to those two simple brain structures that I discussed. They're not simple brain structures. I'm just, I'm describing them simply because I don't want to bore you. But when you think about it, the amygdala, this is one of the first brain structures to develop. I mean, you're pretty much born with that. You don't need to teach a baby to, to cry or get mad. That that is a, a system that is an application that came with that operating system. We don't need to teach that. Right. But when we think about the frontal lobe and the prefrontal cortex in particular, that part of the brain is one of the last things to develop. Now, this might shock you. The frontal lobe and the prefrontal cortex of women develops faster than the prefrontal cortex and frontal lobe of men. So when it comes to cognitive development, women will get there to the, to the end point at about 20 years old. Usually it's about 25 male, 25 years for the, for the male brain to fully develop. And so what does this, what does this mean? So as a toddler, we're going to have all these temper tantrums and we're going to feel very strong emotions. We're going to be laughing and playing and very excited, jumping, and then we're going to be crying like the next second. It's hard for us to regulate. Not because they're bad kids, but a lot of times it's because their brains haven't developed to a point where they can control themselves in that way. Now, that ability to control themselves will develop with age as the frontal lobe begins to develop. But we have to remember that even though teenagers may appear more adult, like, they are still very childlike in that cognitive development. And what I mean by that is that the limbic system, the amygdala, is still very strong. But that ability to make good decisions, to control behavior and those things, that is not fully developed yet. But at the same time, their language capabilities are. So it sounds like they're trying to make sense, know, but it's not completely connecting. And we've run into that situation before, not just with kids, but with adults as well, where it's like, hey, you know, you went from A to B to Q and you missed all these letters. Do you not see that? And so there. We have to remember there's a difference between being right and being persuasive. You all can probably identify times in your difficult conversations in general, but in particular with kids where you have been objectively correct and you've laid out the data, you've laid out the facts, and they still weren't getting it. And you're like, how is this possible? Right? It's probably because they are. Even though they might sound articulate, especially the teens, they're operating with the amygdala, and so they're not thinking clearly. Let me give an example. So a couple weeks ago, Kai was really upset because he lost his football. And he was. I'm laughing now because parenting has given me the opportunity to see the. The. The obvious reality of genetics, because this is. This is a very Kwami thing to do. So he lost his football, and he was blaming everybody. He's like, yeah, everybody touches my stuff. It's all gone. I put it right here. It's not there. It's somebody else's fault. And so we're like, just look around. You'll find your football. Just keep looking. And he looks for, like, 20 minutes, can't find his football. And I said, I'm. I'm free. I phrase this very differently than what my parents would. I say, kai, okay, I've been sitting on this couch. I'm going to get up and I'm going to look for my foot for your football. All right, what happens if I find it right? My parents would say, what am I going to do to you if I find this thing? I'm like, wait, give me One second, let me look again, right? But I said, okay, you need my help, I'll get up and look. So I go upstairs, and in the, like, the door frame, right in the middle of the door frame, the football was on the floor right in the middle of the door frame. Like, I didn't even get fully up the stairs. And I saw it and I said. And I went back downstairs and I sat down. I'm like, kai, go upstairs and look for your football, right? And he goes upstairs, he finds it, and he's like, it wasn't there. Somebody put it there. I said, kai, this comes down to effort. This is just an effort thing, right? If you would have put forth more effort, you would have found the football. Now, you all check me on this. Maybe that's an unfair proposition, but if I look for two seconds, and he looked for 20 minutes, I'm assuming that there's a discrepancy between the effort that was given and the effort that was required. And Kai was completely unwilling to accept that. Right now. This is what happened. Now, I will concede I argued a lot more than I should have. I should have let this go for a lot sooner, and here's why. So we were going back and forth. I even started drawing diagrams. I'm like, these are the effort points that you put in. This is what you needed to get to put in more effort, right? He was not getting it. And so I said, okay, let's let this go. Let's let this go. Kai, you go by yourself, take some time, do your deep breathing, and let's. Let's continue this conversation. And then about 20 minutes later, Kai comes back. He's like, I'm sorry, Dad. I should have looked harder. That was it. So what happened? What really happened there beneath the surface? What happened was Kai was operating with his amygdala. He was not thinking clearly. He wasn't really looking for the ball. He was marching around the house, angry, angry the whole time. So he could not see the ball. He probably walked past it five times, but he couldn't see it. Think about the time the. The phrase blind with rage is because you can't process clearly. And so I was making very logical points, but since he was still very emotional, he couldn't process clearly. And so when it comes down to having these conversations with our kids, we have to recognize that time can serve as a magical, tactical element of these conversations. Sometimes they just need time to cool down. Sometimes they are so hot, they're so angry, they're so sad, they're so emotional that even if you say the most articulate and well reasoned thing, they are cognitively incapable of processing at a level that allows them to understand it. Right? And so don't be afraid to put a little bit of time in these conversations. You can make your point and say, hey, just think about it. Here's a question I want you to think about, all right? What could you do differently so you have a different outcome, don't. You don't need to answer right now. Let's come back and let's address this later, right? And then just as they calm down, they get that time to come to the conclusion themselves. And so this is one of those things that we have to recognize. A lot of times the things that we're trying to teach them, these life lessons, they're not very complicated, they're not complex. But given their emotional state, they can't process it at a high level. And so you have to be able to recognize this and take the emotional temperature of the room and try to get to a point where they can be receptive to the point that you're making. Because a lot of times they just need time to cool down. And so that is one thing that I think is underappreciated when it comes to these conversations. We don't need more tactics or strategies. A lot of times they just need time. The last thing that I want to talk about is helping people. And this, you'll see, like these tools can be used for adults as well, helping people to recognize the gaps in their understanding. And so a lot of times we want to just make points. We're going to tell people things. This is what you need to do. This is where you're wrong, this is where I'm right. And those type of things that approach is, is trying to persuade through force. And a lot of times I think about it in terms of Newton's law of physics. Let's call this Kwame's law of persuasion. So Newton's law is every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Kwame's law of persuas occasion. Every point has an equal and opposite counterpoint. And so sometimes when you just make points, people get into that combative mode and they just are going to counter the points regardless of the veracity of what they're saying. And so instead if you frame, flip it and think about it through a curio curiosity based approach, you can ask questions that help them to reveal their ignorance to themselves. So I don't even need to get to the point where I'm Telling them what to think. I could just ask them a question. Question number one. They give their answer and then say, oh, that's interesting, because that doesn't seem to comport with this. So what do you think about this? What's the connection between this and that? Because I'm not seeing it. Can you help me to understand it? And a lot of times, if you ask people to draw a connection that they're trying to make, to explain that connection, when you know that there's not a true connection, then they start to realize, wait a second. That thing that I believed, that thing that I thought, it doesn't really add up. It doesn't really make sense. And sometimes the most powerful forms of persuasion are really just helping people to recognize the gaps in their understanding. And then that is what gives them the requisite humility to be willing to listen to you. So those are a few tips. Let me say this too. We are teaching our kids how to have these conversations too. And so one of the things that Kai and I did this summer is we actually wrote a book together is this. Coming up, the Mysterious Map. Kai and Barry's Exciting Journey. So Kai's birthday is on Thursday. It's on October. October 5th. Let me just say the date. So, yes, if you want to support Kai, getting this book is a great option. So, folks, actually, Simone, if you could drop the. The link to the book, the Amazon link in the chat, that'd be really, really helpful. But yeah, let's open it up. We've been going for about 28 minutes. I want to hear your thoughts. When I see there have been some. Some points coming up. And also, what questions do you have for me? I'll try my best. I will not consider myself a parenting expert by any means. Not even close. I'm just a guy trying. Trying my best. That's it. So any interesting points come up? Simone, while we were. While we were flowing. Ah, great perspective. Lack of rationality plus high emotions equals a recipe for disaster. Exactly. Exactly. It's we. A lot of times this emotional cocktail blended with just the circumstances of cognitive exhaustion, it makes even the most simple conversation much, much more challenging. So, yeah, it's tough. And again, this helps us to understand. Oh, okay. Hey, going into this conversation, I've had a really long day. I haven't eaten dinner. I'm. I am not at my best. Sometimes the best negotiation strategy is to not have a negotiation strat. Not to have a negotiation at that time. It takes a lot of humility to. To accept that. But just saying hey, now's not a great time. Let's have this conversation in about, just give me half an hour, give me half an hour and then, then we can do this. One of the things I started to kind of normalized in my family is just say, daddy needs some daddy time. Like just, just give me, just give me some time here, right? And, and so we got to the point where sometimes Kai can see it. He's like, do you need some daddy time? I was like, yes, I need some, that, I need some daddy time. And so it gives him the license to say, you know, I need some Kai time. I need some time for myself. I need to, I need to calm down. And so sometimes when I'm having this conversation with him, whether it's a disciplinary conversation or challenging one of his ideas, he'd just say, dad, can I please, can I please just go downstairs and, and be by myself for a little bit? He's E7Is. I'm like, that's a fair request. That's a fair request. And then he'll come back more ready to go. So, yeah. Any other thoughts? Coming through. Ah, yes. As adults, we can revert to that childhood reasoning when we feel threatened and uncomfortable. So true, so true. And we, this is the thing, we just have to accept that. We have to accept that perfect performance is a myth. It's not possible. And we just have to recognize, oh, you know what, I'm an adult, but I am acting like a child right now. Right. And I think the biggest danger is not being able to recognize that and not being able to course correct or not being willing to accept that. You know, that's really important. Well, great, everybody, this was a fun one. I appreciate it. It was a little bit off of the, our, our standard approach for these LinkedIn events, but let me know what you think about it. I know it's not a traditional business or leadership focused episode, but if you find value in it, let me know. And maybe we might bring in some, some guest experts to talk more about difficult conversations on the personal side too, like family, friends, relatives, all that stuff, kids, spouses, all of that. Again, certainly not an expert. I will not claim to be an expert in that, but I'm here trying my best and I want to get you all access to the best info. So if, if this is something that y' all are interested in, we can find more guests for that too. So, yeah. All right, peeps, appreciate it. Thank you. And I will see you in the next LinkedIn Live. And hit me up on LinkedIn. I'll be posting every day. I'll catch you all later. See you. Congratulations. You've just joined an elite club by LinkedIn, listening to a full episode. You're now officially on the Negotiate Anything team. So welcome aboard. What most team members do is they subscribe to the podcast because that allows them to automatically get the latest episodes of the show. The best things in life lie on the other side of difficult conversations. Keep learning, keep practicing, and keep getting better. Your relationships will improve, your career will soar, and you'll have the confidence you need to get the most out of these crucial conversations. Again, thank you for joining the team. We're excited to have you, and I will see you in the next episode. I'll catch you later.