Networking Tips from Stephanie Hanna

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Thanks for having me.

Oh, it's my pleasure. How about you get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do?

Okay, great. Well, my name is Stephanie Hanna and I have a business called the other 85 and we focus on professional development skills, skills for attorneys and professionals. And the name came from the concept that only 15% of our job success is really based on the hard technical skills. And the other 85 is what will really make or break you. And that's what the other 85 focuses on, really trying to help young professionals excel in the other 85 so that they can make the advancements that they want in their careers.

That's awesome. And one of the things I love about your journey is, is the fact that you are a fellow attorney, but you clearly have the entrepreneurial spirit inside of you.

Yes, absolutely. This is something I've wanted to do for quite some time.

Fantastic. And so today we're going to talk about networking. And one of the things I love with this show is that we don't only focus on how we can use negotiation skills to maximize outcomes, but the fact of the matter is negotiation skills, these are transferable. They. They can be applied in all aspects of our life. So I'm excited to talk about how we could use our skills as negotiators to be better networkers.

Yes, absolutely. And I'll tell you, when I was prepping for this, I was surprised how many similarities there were between the skills that you need for effective negotiating and being a strong networker. So I'm excited to talk about it.

Cool. So in your opinion, what are the top skills that we could use?

I would say, frankly, first and foremost, active listening. I think it's hard for us, especially as busy people, as people who are smart are always thinking ahead, always trying to be one step ahead. Whether it's in a networking situation or in a negotiation, it's hard to really stop and listen and not think about your next move or your next sentence, but to really listen, to understand the other person and not listen, to respond. And so that, to me, is a big one.

And so what's the difference between active and passive listening?

So there are some things that typically happen when you are actively listening. First, you're not distracted. You don't have your phone out. You're not partially glancing at it or glancing at your watch. You're making eye contact. So when you're actively listening, you are looking at the person, really trying to understand what they're saying, using your body language to show the that you are in fact listening and understanding what they're saying. And it's not necessarily that you agree, but just that you're listening and you hear them. When you can contrast that with passive listening, which is, myself included, something we're probably guilty of most of the time, right? You're thinking about something else. The person says something and you want to respond right away. So you interrupt, trying to see what time it is. What time is my next appointment? Oh, I forgot, I have to do something else. And so you're just not engaged in the moment. Your brain is just kind of somewhere else. And it comes across in your demeanor and body language, other person can absolutely pick up on it as well.

Now, with active listening, especially in networking situations, it's a little bit different from negotiation, because in a negotiation or a difficult conversation, typically there's the audience is one or maybe two people. It's pretty focused, and there's a clear goal there. But with networking, sometimes we have that mentality where I need to meet as many people as possible. And I remember one of my friends complaining about going to a networking event, and he said he just felt terrible because he wasn't very important, and he knew that and other people knew that. So when he talked to people, they were constantly looking around and trying to find somebody else who was more important so they could network up. So how do you still take advantage of the strategic opportunity and look for different people to connect with without making your conversational partner feel unimportant?

Okay, so it's important to have a winning mindset when you are thinking about negotiating or especially networking. So in the situation that you described, going into a networking event or an event where you are going to meet some people and just looking to connect with one or two people and not having the mindset of, oh, am I important enough for them to want to talk to me? Or having the mindset where you're not sure if the other person can be of benefit to you, get rid of all that and really just make your focus on making a genuine connection and keeping the numbers low. Let me just try and connect with one or two people and let me just try and introduce myself, let them know what I do, learn more about their story, and really keep the focus on listening and learning. And you can really gain a lot out of a networking event and not feel so intimidated if you can just make that subtle mindset shift.

I love that. And I was reviewing my notes for the book. I believe it's critical conversations or crucial conversations. And they said a lot of times our problem with difficult conversations is the fact that we look at them as combative, but when in reality we should be looking at them as learning opportunities. And I love that you are taking these networking conversations and shifting them from networking opportunities where we're trying to leverage relationships for financial gain, to just saying, your goal in these conversations is to listen and learn. And if we implement that not only in networking, but also in our negotiations, our outcomes will be better because we're establishing true connection with people and people can sense that. And I know for me, sometimes when I've gone into networking events, trying to put my numbers up and see how many people I can meet. Meet. I get a feeling of anxiety if a conversation goes beyond a certain length and I'm like, I need to move. Abort, abort, get out. And even though I might be looking at the person and nodding in body language, there is a term called asynchronous body language. Motions or movements, and that means your timing is off. And so I might nod a little bit slower because I'm thinking about ways to get out of the conversation. And people pick up on that. They don't know what it is, but they notice it.

Yeah, absolutely. And that's some of the awkwardness that we try and work on when I work with clients. And so you've given it a name, so that's good. I can refer back to that. But that happens all the time. Right. You set the bar so high, you get in these rabbit hole conversations, nobody's getting anything out of it. And that's really how networking can get a bad rap. Much like negotiating can also get a bad rap when you view it as combative instead of just trying to have a genuine connection with somebody.

Exactly. And nobody wants to feel as though they are being leveraged or used for somebody else's benefit because you feel that it's not a true relationship. You're just using me. And then you're probably going to exit my life as quickly as you came in. Once you get what you want or recognize that you can't. And it really makes it difficult for true connection. And that's important. And I think this is a good opportunity to talk about using networking as a negotiation opportunity and a persuasive opportunity. How do you think we could do that?

Yeah, absolutely. You know, you had mentioned practice a little bit earlier, and that's something I work a lot with my clients on. Is every interaction that you have with somebody is practice. Right. It's an opportunity to try something new. It's an opportunity to work on creating trust and work on building rapport. And when you can start viewing all your interactions like that and you get good at it. And then when it comes time to negotiate or it comes time to have an important conversation, you've kind of strategically put yourself in a position to succeed because you've practiced all the time. So when you can control your mindset, you really work on seeing the positive in people, assuming that they have good intentions. And viewing every interaction is really just a chance to practice being yourself and practice connecting with somebody. You get really good at it. And then when it's Time to negotiate. Your ability to persuade is very strong because your ability to make a connection, a genuine connection, is very strong.

This is brilliant. And I think that concept of practice isn't really appreciated by many people. And for me, I'm an ambivert. So on the introvert, extrovert scale, I'm like, right in the middle. But my comfort zone is more on the introverted side. So when I work out at the gym in the past, it was just me with my headphones, and that was it. In and out. I don't talk to anybody. That's it. But then I started to think about it as a practicing opportunity. And so I said to myself, how many people can I get to know in the gym? And I actually kept notes to see how many I got. And so just from going to the gym in the morning, 5am I've gotten up to 50 names. And so I know people by name, and we actually have conversations. And the fascinating thing is that it has led to organic opportunities. I didn't go in there seeking that. I just said, let's see if I can make some friends. I made some friends. And then because of the connections that I made and they see me and begin to trust me and get to know what I can offer, then they just volunteer opportunities for me. And I think that's one of the beautiful things about being intentional, of creating relationships, is that there's value in them. Of course it makes you feel good. That's great. But every once in a while, you kind of position yourself in a way that if there's an opportunity, people know you and they trust you and they're willing to look your way.

Yes, absolutely. And that's why kind of changing your mindset is so crucial, because once you can recognize that you go into every interaction with a lot of kind of hope and positivity, knowing that it might not be immediate. But once people trust you and like you, they will remember you when opportunities come up. And the other thing I wanted to mention too, is practicing. It can be in situations that you are in naturally. Anyway, so the gym is a great example. There's no need to go out and sign up for 20 networking events so you can practice. You have to incorporate it into your life as is. So whether that's the grocery store or when dropping off your child at daycare or at the gym or at any other sort of hobby or activity you find yourself at, use those as your opportunities to practice. They're already existing in your life. You don't have to add something else. To your plate. Just take advantage of the opportunities that are already there.

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Absolutely. So I was initially going to call this business how to Not Be Weird because that really, in a nutshell, was what I was aiming to fix. You know, people can sometimes just be so awkward and weird and you may look good on paper, but you wonder why you are not getting an interview or are not making a genuine connection. And a lot of times it's you just kind of coming off a little weird. And so while that's not the name of the business. Now that is a strong component of it and something that I work a lot with my clients on.

Right. And what we're finding here, audience, the point I want you to take from this is the fact that these are skills. These are skills that can be built. They're skills that can be improved upon. And if you think about every conversation as an opportunity to create, create connection and become a better conversationalist, it not only helps you professionally and personally, but it also puts you in a better position to be persuasive. The way I look at negotiation is kind of like a game of chess. I love chess, so I like to make chess related metaphors. And it's like a never ending game of chess. You're constantly positioning yourself with the relationships that you create to be more persuasive. And I think back to the work of Robert Cialdini and his pivotal book, Influence. He talks about liking and authority as two critical elements of persuasion. If people like you, you will have a greater ability to persuade them. If you come with a sense of authority or people see you as an authority in something, and you can do that by sharing your story effectively. I think that also puts you in a position to be seen as somebody with a lot of credibility and that gives you a little bit more persuasive juice in these conversations. And one of the things that we chatted about when we talked about this interview last week was mastering your story. And I see that as an opportunity to establish credibility and authority. So can you tell the audience a little bit about mastering your story and sharing it effectively in these situations?

Yeah, absolutely. So one of the first things that comes up when you have a conversation with somebody or when you're meeting someone is the opportunity to introduce yourself. Someone is giving you a chance to talk about yourself. And so many times we drop the ball on this. This is a time where somebody is pausing for you to tell them your story completely at your own control, something you can completely control. And a lot of times we don't prepare for it. We just say our name, we might say what we do, but we don't take advantage of this opportunity. So just like when you're negotiating and, you know, selling your business or service and when you're networking, you're selling yourself. And you have to take complete advantage of that opportunity. So a great way to do that is to really think about your story. What do you want to come across when you are meeting somebody and get very granular with it? Write it down, practice it in front of of the mirror, Practice it on your phone, recording it and hearing it back and watching yourself telling it back. Your story is something that you should be saying five times a day, right? You should be able to incorporate it into any conversation that you're having because that's where the authenticity comes. It comes from knowing your story, telling it confidently and building a connection. And so when we don't even know our story, it's really hard to get to those other places because we're not being able to connect authentically. So what I tell my clients to do is to write down what are the top three things that you want to come across when you're talking to somebody? Is it what you do? Is it something that happened to you in your past that has shaped who you are today? Is it a service that you offer? And it doesn't mean be salesman Y or write down your pitch, but it just means authentically, what are the three things that you want somebody else to know about you? And once you have those down, you can really kind of make a roadmap and get crafty, so to speak, with your story. How exactly do you want it to sound? I know that I want these three bullets to come through. Let me practice saying them this way. Okay, these two things worked well. This one I need to tweak. And you'll get to a place where you're comfortable with it. You can say it very easily, confidently and authentically and connections will come from that. So it's so, so important to know your story and then practice saying it and get to a place where you can use it to build relationships and make genuine connections.

This is brilliant. And you know what's funny? This reminds me of how great comedian would create a set and so audience knows I'm a nerd. And I like reading a variety of books and finding ways to connect it with negotiation and psychology. So I finished last year off with Kevin Hart's book and it was really great. So if anybody's interested in business, it's a really great business book. But one of the things that he talks about is how you build for an hour long special. And what the comedians would do is they would go and they would perform every night and you do about a 10 minute set and, and you pay attention to which jokes land which jokes flop. And you keep the jokes that land, get rid of the jokes that flop. And you're constantly refining. So when you're on the road for about a year, it takes you that much time to build up enough gold level jokes for an Hour long special. And so bringing it back to this, when you are engaging in these practice conversations, like we talked about beforehand, you come up with the three points and how you want to say it. And so you engage in these conversations, you see where their eyes start to gloss over, where they're not interested, and you start to see the patterns. And you say, okay, that line didn't land. I need to say this in a different way to maintain their attention. And after a few conversations, it becomes more and more solid. You're trimming the fat, and it's becoming a more potent story that connects with people. And if you practice in this way, you'll be able to really get your story down.

Yes, absolutely.

And so for people who might have a tendency to maybe go on too long, like, what is too long? 1 minute, 2 minute, 10 minutes? What is too long for a story?

You know, you mentioned a really great thing to look for, right? The glazing over of the eyes. You can tell when somebody starts losing interest or is faking interest or their body language is not syncing up to what they're really feeling. And so being able to read that is also a great part of being an active participant in the conversation. And so I think it starts to be too long when you feel like you kind of lost the person. And you have to take that as a signal to find a way to wrap it up. Don't drone on and on because you didn't get to the last two points, because the listener will respect you much more for kind of picking up on that cue and making an adjustment. And it shows that you are nimble and able to react to any given situation. So there's not necessarily a set time, but you definitely have to be able to, you know, recognize the situation that you're in. If it's a one on one, and the purpose is to get to know each other, there's probably more opportunity for your story to have a little bit more detail. But if it's kind of in a more traditional networking sort of thing, or there's a lot of people around, or you're blocking a door when you're telling your story or something, be aware of your surroundings and make the appropriate adjustments.

Okay, so how about this? Let me put you on the spot. If we were at a networking event and we met for the first time, how would you introduce yourself?

All right, so if I were to walk up to you, Kwame, this is how I would introduce myself. I would say, hi, Kwame, I'm Stephanie Hanna. It is really great to meet you, I have a new company that I started called the other 85. And I know we're both kind of in the same boat as we are attorneys and entrepreneurs. And so I wanted to tell you a little bit about it. I help work with attorneys and other professionals and coach them kind of on the soft skills that will really make or break their careers and make them successful. Something that I know that you value also in your negotiation business. So if you know of anybody that might be interested in learning more or if you want to pass my information along, I would definitely appreciate that. And I'm going to keep you and your business in mind as I'm out talking to people. Maybe if I'm not a good match for them, you and your services might be. And so I look forward to kind of working together in that way.

Perfect. 52 seconds. And I like it. It was nice and short and sweet. And you said what you do, why you do it, and you made it abundantly clear how to work with you and who would be a good fit for you. So. Oh, that's great. That's really good. And I think a lot of times people just overthink it. This was really nice and succinct.

Well, thanks. Yeah. And, you know, you get better as you go. The other 85 is new, so that's a new story for me. And so I'm going to keep practicing and keep telling as many people as will listen, and it'll get even more efficient and more succinct and get the point across. And not necessarily that being quick is the goal, but getting the point across and not making other people feel unsure as to when you're done with your story and what you're trying to say, but just really being efficient in the message and practice really is key for myself included.

That's great. Wow. And it's crazy. Even compared to before we had this conversation, you've outlined a lot of ways that we can use these skills in negotiation in ways that I didn't think about and even just the story, eventually, after we ask a lot of questions and we use our active listening. In a negotiation, you have to make your pitch. You have to efficiently let the person know what you're looking for and the outcomes that you seek from the. From the conversation. And using these same elements that you showed from sharing your story, you can use that exact same skill in a negotiation to share exactly what you're looking for efficiently in the conversation.

Absolutely.

Perfect. Well, thank you so much for joining us. This was incredibly helpful. But before you go, make sure to let the listeners know again how they can get in touch with you and what you're working on.

Sure. So you guys can check me out@the other85.net and all my information is on there. We'll have some online courses and other ways that we can interact. You can ask questions and I will be sure to definitely get back to you my email address, which is also on the website@stephanieother85.net and I would love to connect with you guys.

Perfect. Thanks again for coming on, Stephanie. We appreciate it.

Absolutely. It was my pleasure. Thank you.

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