Patricia Haywood: Balance and Authenticity in Tough Negotiations

Hello, my friend, and welcome to another exciting episode of Negotiate Anything. Thanks for joining us today. With over 10 million downloads and listeners from more than 180 different countries, it's dedicated listeners just like you who have made Negotiate Anything the number one negotiation podcast in the world. I'm your host, Kwame Christian. I'm a business lawyer, mediator, author, and the proud CEO of the American Negotiation Institute. Now, before we get into today's insightful conversation, I have a golden opportunity for those of you who recognize the power of negotiation in your professional lives. Have you ever found yourself wishing that you could navigate those high stakes conversations with more confidence? Or perhaps you're looking to empower your team with the art of persuasion and conflict resolution? At the American Negotiation Institute, we've crafted specialized keynotes and workshops tailored for those very needs. We've transformed the negotiation skills of professionals worldwide and we're eager to do the same for you. We believe the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. And our goal is to help you improve your lives and the lives of those around you, one difficult conversation at a time. Don't let another challenging conversation leave you second guessing. Click the link in the description to discover how we can help you find confidence in conflict, negotiate better deals, and have stronger relationships. Because in the world of business, every conversation counts. And now, without further ado, let's jump into the interview. Patricia, thanks for joining us today.

Thank you for having me. I'm excited. Me too.

So how would you get us started? By telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do.

So I'm considered construction lawyer. I don't consider myself a lawyer. I am really someone who loves construction contracts. I love working on construction projects, working on site. And it's really an industry that has just opened up itself to me and I've opened up my heart to it. So we create magic together.

Oh, this is great. This is great. And listeners, Patricia and I have been vibing for like the last 20 minutes talking all things negotiation. And I'm really excited to share a lot of this with you. And let's just set the stage here. Tell us about what it's like negotiating in the construction industry in England.

So the construction industry is lucrative. The contracts are huge. The profit margins are low. They're very low. So it's very much a penny pinching type of industry. It's one of the industries where companies go on in administration every day. Thousands go into administration in a year, and they leave casualties behind. Large companies, too. No company, no size is Immune to this because the cash flow issues are enormous and the profit margins are so low and you're from Peter to pay Paul. And it's a real hustle in the industry even though the contracts are large. So what that means then is the negotiations can be hard, the relationships can be adversarial and oftentimes you can just cut the tension with a knife. Everybody's looking out for themselves and it can be a hard place to be, especially as a female negotiator. Of course, it's a male dominated industry and you're negotiating oftentimes as the only female in the room, only woman of color in the room as well. And it can be intimidating at first, and I must say, at first it was intimidating to me, especially because I'm not from the uk, I'm an immigrant. So that also played in my head once I open my mouth, I'm not from here. People want to, they're intrigued. Where are you from? This it's good and bad because it starts conversation. But then on the flip side there's a question of does she even know what she's doing. But for me, construction is an industry that I found it and it found me because how I ventured into construction wasn't linear. On the whole, it's an industry that's made up of immigrants anyway. In the UK it's made up eclectic personality types and I think I just fit in because of that, because I'm quite eclectic and out there. Despite the fact it's male dominated, it can be quite stringent and not so open to innovation in certain respects. On the other hand, is very open compared to other industries like law, where it's black suit, white shirt, you have a little bit more room in the box to play around. So I think I like that about the industry and I also love what we do in the industry. We build things for people. We build things to transform lives. We mold and craft nature hopefully in a respectful way in order to create environments that fulfill the brief. That brief to me is often greater than just building this school. For example, it's the kids who are going to go to that school. The school signifies in that community and also the promise that it provides for those children that here I am now going to a school and it means that I can get an education and I can do something greater with my life. It's the same way we build hospitals. Similarly we look at the people who are going into these hospitals. What does it signify for the community? Now I have health care in my community. I Don't have to travel outside. We build railroads. So anything that we do within the industry has a greater purpose. And I think that's what I connect to that purpose for that thing and that bring that into the negotiation room with me. So as I said before, in construction, the negotiations can be quite hard because the profit margins are so low. At the end of the day, these are companies that are trying to survive. They have staff or payroll and for some of them, shareholders and the profit margins have to make sense for them. So they come into the room, can be quite aggressive and adversarial. But when I come into the room, what I try to do is to bring that greater purpose with me. So one of the things that I do as a negotiator is to understand the business case. I read the business case, I understand the business case, the feasibility studies, partly because this is how I started in the industry as well, doing feasibility studies and understanding non tariff barriers to trade, looking at infrastructure. And that's probably why I look at construction the way I do. Because a lot of the times the work that I did was in third world countries, African countries, Asia, and moving around and working in these countries and seeing firsthand the impact that these developments had on those communities. I connect with that on a soul level. And therefore when I come into the negotiation room and bringing that with me, my goal is to try to get all the stakeholders, all the players in the room to see their contribution to the bigger picture. For them to understand that there's a bigger picture and how we all feed into it. What's a transformation that we're trying to bring about with the construction of whatever it is that we're building, point A to point B, what we're trying to achieve and for all of us to get, I like to say we all get into the car and get into the car together to get to that destination. It has to make sense for everyone, of course, for the company, they want to make money. But there is a way to go about it. There is a way to achieve that without the tension, without the conflict. Let me tell you, construction can be quite rough. I've been in negotiations where I feel like they were going to fight. Especially when you have the project managers in there, like the delivery team, it can be real high there. You're just like. But that's often because we miss the greater purpose for what it is that we're trying to achieve. So I'd like to talk about having human led negotiations that is putting the human first in everything that we do. So that's understanding each other. It's being courteous to each other and being respectful in the way we negotiate, including just the suggestions, being open to the suggestions, the amendments, and the understanding that at the end of the day, it has to make sense for all of us. And that's why I talk about balanced construction contracts. That's my thing. It's ensuring that the risk and responsibilities are appropriately distributed amongst all the partners to that agreement, so that everyone feels like they're welcomed, that their participation is welcomed on the project. Otherwise, what we tend to do is just push things down. Because we play this game of passing the ball around in construction, and it's like musical chairs. And we hope when the music stops that we're not the ones without the seat. That's what we do. And that creates the tension in the negotiations. But if we can approach negotiation understanding the purpose for which we're here to fulfill, it cascades into a product that we're going to build. But at the end of the day, it's a transformation that we're bringing about in this community, and we understand the role we play in this bigger picture. And also understanding that the parties are going to come together and try to achieve a balanced negotiation, a balanced contract at the end of it. So no one party feels taken. I'm shafted. I'm the one holding the short stick. Because if you understand and bring the purpose into the room, then the game moves from musical chairs to what can I contribute? What can I take on? No one person is taking on too much. Because at the end of the day, the purpose must be realized.

Yes, this is fantastic. Because in this realm, in this world of construction negotiation that you're in, it can be very aggressive. Like you said in those stories, it can definitely be very aggressive. Aggressive. And I think a lot of listeners, regardless of their industry, can relate to how tough these negotiations can be. And when it comes to how you perform in these negotiations, a lot of times we might find ourselves becoming really tactical in terms of our approach. So somebody might treat us disrespectfully or be aggressive toward us, and then we just respond with hostility back. We figure out how we can win that short term. Back and forth. Yes, or this particular meeting. But when you are able to keep that higher purpose in mind and focus on the end goal, it allows you to maintain your equanimity under duress. You can stay calmer and still approach this strategically versus tactically. And can you talk about how you were able to maintain your authenticity as the industry almost Pulled you to become more aggressive like other people were negotiating?

Yes, because at first when I started, this is how it was and this is how I was being trained to be. But it didn't go down well with me because that's not my personality. I'm like a quite easygoing kind of person. I don't take things too serious. I don't get worked up. Whether something great happens or something bad happens, I'm the same. I'm like, okay, fine. We put in a bid on a house. We won the realtors a call. Oh, yeah. Like, thank you. So he called my husband. He's like, isn't she happy? He's like, yeah, yeah, she's happy. You know, like, he expected me to jump for joy, but that's not my personality. So I was just, like, being, like, hard and stuff was not me. So I tried it because that was what was expected. It didn't work for me. I felt like a fraud. And it took away from what I could really contribute to the negotiation, what I could contribute to the deal. It watered down what I could do. And then I would come out of that negotiation or out of that contract, I saw this was going to happen, or if I'd spoken up, that wouldn't happen. So I would carry this burden on me of not being true to myself. And then at one point, I was just like, you know what? At the end of the day, I just have to be me. I can't continue this way. And because I used to do silly little things, tried to imitate other people the way they talk or try to, and it just did not work. And when it changed for me was when I decided that I was going to be who I am. And how it all happened is. So I read the Bible, and I use a lot of biblical principles in everything that I do. And in it, it talks about, you are the salt. And I kept saying, what is salt? And I only can be the salt if I'm me, if I'm the way I am. And one of the things that I started doing was I would write out these things and say it to myself. I record things and repeat it to myself that the way I am is fine. People respect me for the way I speak. Because being an immigrant and sounding different, also, that played on my mind. People would always be like, once I open my mouth, no, I'm not from the uk. I'm not originally from the uk. And so that would play on my mind, because originally when I started, I had seniors and people who I thought were mentors but they weren't. And they were really eroding my self confidence. So there was a point during my journey where my self confidence went really low down and I had to make the effort to build it back up and just understand that at the end of the day I'm worthy to be in these rooms. At the end of the day, I'm bringing something valuable to them. And the big aha moment came when I would just turn up the way I am. For example, my hair like this and I'm an afro rearing girl. Because I remember early in my journey I even had directors who would say to me, you need to soften your image. And I would try, I would try to do this, but then I wasn't there. Who they wanted, wasn't there. Like I was just checked out. You can't focus in a negotiation if you're thinking about how do I sound when I speak. You miss everything that is being said. And I just decided, I'm the salt. Okay, I'm the salt. What does that mean? It means that I just need to be who I am. And that was it. And I just started turning up the way I am and going into these rooms, I'm not a suit wearing lawyer, I just turn up in my boots and stuff and get the job done. And I remember like the first couple of clients I had and they were just like, this is what I needed. You're what I need. And I was just like, oh, wow. I started realizing that a lot of these things that I had in my head, they were just in my head because in the real world people really appreciated when I turned up as myself because we got the deal done. I mean, in an industry where it's all petty pinching, it's to get the deal done. At the end of the day, if you can show people that you're good at what you do and if you can add value to people and if they can really see like your heart and what you're about, then it doesn't matter what you look like or what you sound like, but they can only see that if you're yourself, if you just turn up as yourself. So that for me was the turning point. And I just never looked back. I just like, this is, I'm going to turn up this, this is how I speak, this is how I look, this is how I dress. And they were like, well, we're here for it. So it also gave me a lesson that you see, it happens sometimes where you meet the voice of one person, drown out the 99. And also just be careful of the people who we put on these pedestals or people we think are above us and really just go deep within yourself. Whatever faith you believe, you rely on that, you lean on that. And now no mistakes are made. I was placed in this industry for a reason, and I see it every single day. Every client I get, every deal I make. I had a meeting with a client the other day and she's like, I look forward to talking to you. I look forward to talk to you. I say, yeah. She's like, you're always so calm. You're always so calm. She's like, I wake up stressed every morning. What do you do? And I tell her, well, you know, I write these wonderful affirmations to myself every day. And I recite them. And she's like, write one for me. So I did. But it gives a sense of calm when I go into the room, because here I'm coming, you know, this happy go, lucky girl who is crazy, you know that. Just break the tension right there and then I'm able to then meet them, understand the bigger picture and the purpose and bring it all together and understand that whatever the blocker is, the no, at the end of the day, they come together. Every negotiation that I've done, at the end of the day, we come together and we get the deal done. We do. Because it changes the atmosphere of the negotiation. Once you change the intention and the purpose and make people understand that they're all valuable and have a role to play in the delivery of this grand transformation, I call it a transformation that we're trying to deliver for the client. They come together and we make it work. Even when it comes down to dollars and cents and pounds and pence, there's a way around that as well, in the way that they price, in the way that they negotiate, the way we draft the contracts. That's what I'm huge. I'm a huge proponent of the balanced construction contract to ensure that the contract reflects the relationship that you want to create. Because many of the contracts that we end up with, they don't reflect the relationship and they create tension and that adversarial relationship on the project. And it perpetuates this philosophy in the industry or this view when you outside looking in that this is a contentious industry. They love to go to adjudication, they love to go to court. There's always a problem that's because of how we negotiate and that goes into the contract. Imagine if you have a toxic relationship from the beginning, and it seeps into your contract. And I like to say that whatever relationship, whatever tension, whatever emotions that were there, it goes into the contract and it plays out on site. My role is to look forward, looking to the future. And because I've actually worked on sites, I've worked as a commercial lead delivering major project. So I've seen the words dance on site. My role is to go into the future, look to see what this contract can look like two years from now, five years from now, however long the project, pull it forward into the present in that room and show it to them, to paint a picture for them to see it and to say, two years time, is this what you want? Or at the end with the product or the outcome, is this the delivery that you want, is a quality that you want? This is how it all feeds into that. And they understand that if you don't do that, they continue the way they've always been doing it. Because not many people have that foresight. Not many people have the luxury of going into the future and bringing it forward. Especially as a construction lawyer, because some construction lawyers, quite a few, actually, I could probably say many, they've never worked on a construction site. They've only worked in private practice, right? You go to law school, you come out, you get a job at some nice Cauchy law firm, you train there and you stay there. Somehow you rotate into construction, you like it and you stay. Very few. They're on the flip side, those who come that quantity surveyor, because I've also worked as a quantity surveyor. And then they decide, okay, it's very close to law, I want to do law. And they may venture into it, but it's not so common for that to happen. What tends to happen is you have a construction lawyer who's never worked on a site, so they can't go into the future and pull it forward into that room because they've never seen it. So that's where I think that I bring that value. And that's where I'm able to then cut the tension and bring the players together. I like to talk about the power players because in construction, what you often find is the. You have the client, the employer, the main contractor is tend to be a big, huge company, you know, like. And then you have all these subcontractors who feel like, oh, all these huge guys up there. I can't negotiate with them. Yes, you can. If you bring the purpose and the transformation into the room, everybody has fair play.

Hello, my friends. Before we get back to today's episode, I Want to ask you a question. Have you ever wondered how to elevate your team's negotiation game and how you can help the folks on your team have better, difficult conversations? At the American Negotiation Institute, we offer transformative keynotes and workshops tailored to empower professionals with top tier negotiation and conflict resolution skills. Whether it's a keynote for your next event or hands on training for your team, we've got you covered. Don't just negotiate. Master the art with the American Negotiation Institute. Click the link in the description to find out more. Elevate, negotiate and succeed. Absolutely. And what I really love about this is the persuasive power of authenticity. Because I think everybody can relate to that feeling of compromising part of who they are authentically as an individual to either cater to a specific culture at large or the culture within within a company or the culture within an industry. And we feel that resistance. We're like, this doesn't really feel like me, but everybody else is doing it, so I'm going to be like everybody else. And I think one of those things that's so enlightening and also empowering about your story is the fact that it was also refreshing to other people when you showed the confidence in yourself and your skills to be yourself. And other people were like, wow, thank you for being you. Because it almost gave them license to be themselves. And there was no negative consequence as it related to your ability to negotiate. In fact, it probably made it better because you weren't as distracted because one of the things that you said was you can't negotiate effectively if you're worried about your accent when you're having conversations. It requires focus, it requires you to be in the moment. And if you're too much in your head, then you can't negotiate effectively too. So there are all of these cascading benefits of authenticity that are often missed. But you're showing how as a lawyer in a construction industry where the contracts are big but the margins are small, you can still be yourself and still be authentic while still being effective.

Yes, in negotiation you have to be yourself. You have to show up as yourself to be effective. You can't show up acting like someone else. People will just know people can read it and you're just not present in the room. Especially if it's like these large contracts. People's lives depend on it. As I said, companies in this industry go into administration like daily. So you want to be as meticulous and detailed as possible. And you can't do that if you're not like Mentally there, your body is there, but mentally you're elsewhere. Because you may be think I'll be thinking, oh, is my hair okay? Do I sound fine? Or why did he look at me like that? Is because I'm not from here. Like, these things would go through my head. I'm sure, like, a lot of immigrants probably go through this, and you just can't be effective that way. And you can only be the salt, and the salt requires you to turn up as yourself. And the best advice is I can give is to write beautiful words to yourself, look yourself in the eye and say them. And I would say my accent, the way I speak, it's a positive. People embrace me for who I am. I would say those things to myself because I was really going through a battlefield of the mind. I don't know why, but that was my journey. So just know that you are worthy to be there. And the value that you add being yourself is just going to outweigh anything at all, any thoughts in your head. Because when people see the value that you add to them, they will actually appreciate you for it. And that gratitude for me is enough. When people say to me, this is what I needed. And I get it so often. I work with project managers, CEOs, and they're like, Patricia gets it up to this week. The other project manager, he's just like, Patricia just gets it. And I only can get it because I'm turning up as myself. So when I read the contracts, when I speak, I turn up to meeting sometimes, and there are all these people with the most, those eloquent accents, British accents. And there I am saying, no, no, no, this is not the way we're going to do it like this, and let's do it like this. And it works. We have that laugh. I tell them sayings from my background, from my country, and also because I've worked in all these different countries, then I'm able to bring that with me as well to say, oh, I've seen this done here, let's try it. And they appreciate that. And I only could have this to give because I've done all of that. And I'm being myself in the room at that point in time. You cannot give yourself if you're not your true self in the room. There's no value to add. And I like to say we're here to serve. That's what we're here to do. I believe that your purpose in life is twofold. In my view, it's to praise God and to help each other. We're here to serve. And if you're caught up in yourself that way, you're only serving yourself. You're serving no one. So you get caught up in the ego, in the me. And that's a selfish place to be. So I look at it like I'm here to serve people. And there are tons of people around that would love my service. That's what I tell myself. There'll be people who don't want to work with me because of whatever reason, but there are more people out there who want me to help them, who have this need that only I can feel. And I have to come out of my selfish state into service. But service can only be done when you're the salt, because the salt is sprinkled freely, don't you. You don't just keep it locked up. It's of no good to anyone in the drawer, right? You have to sprinkle it around so you can't focus on the self. I'm not good enough. Maybe I'm not. It's a selfish place to be. I'm here to serve people. And I'm going to serve. I'm going to serve in those rooms. I'm going to serve negotiating. I'm going to serve by bringing the purpose. I'm going to serve by bringing the principles of the Bible into these rooms. I'm going to serve by letting them understand the transformation, making everyone understand that you have a role and a participation and a part to play in this transformation. And I'm going to serve by bringing about balanced construction contracts, making everybody know that you should not take more risk that you can manage. These are the responsibilities for you. And this is how we're going to come together as one team. Because at the end of the day, you have to live with this person five, maybe 10 years. And most projects, major projects, I always tell people, some companies are around for five years, you should look at it as a company. And you know, when you go to a company, they talk about we're a family and come and join my family. But if you're a project for five to 10 years, how come we don't have that same type of philosophy, that we're here for the long term? How can we satisfy each stakeholder, each person? How can we make this an environment that is conducive? Because in construction is like a revolving door, I like to say, like ikea. Ikea, that door that just goes, that's construction. In the labor force, people don't stay long on projects because they're so toxic. That comes from the negotiation process all the way into the contract. They dance on the site. The tension is high. It's adversarial, and people don't want to be in those environments for long periods of time. It's stressful.

Yes. Oh, man, this is powerful. One of the things that was frustrating to me about the negotiation industry in general, but when you think about the literature and the industry and the teachings, what I found is that a lot of thought leadership is essentially codification of somebody's personality. So here's what I mean. Let's say there's somebody who negotiates and they are being authentic, and then they are successful doing that. When they write a book, they write an article, if they do a lecture, they're saying, this is the right way to do it, because this worked for me. But what worked for them may not work for you, because what's authentic to them may not be authentic to you. And so for them, they can go into the negotiation table and do those things and not feel any resistance, because that's how they do it. But you read their book and then you try to negotiate like them, and then it's disempowering because you say, I can't do it. It feels bad. I'm a bad negotiator. No, it's because you're trying to negotiate like somebody else. So remember, listeners, before we started the podcast, Patricia and I were chatting, and I said, we're almost at a thousand episodes now. So I'm just trying to create unique pieces of content at this point. So, Patricia, what you've done today was created a very unique piece of content because nobody else negotiates like you, but there are people out there who can take bits and pieces and say, she's speaking to me. This is me. This is me. So just want to give you a shout out and let you know. I appreciate that. I know we're coming up on time, so I want to give you an opportunity to let the listeners know again about your business and what's the best way to get in touch with.

I run Heywood Commercial, where we do construction contracts. And you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm Patricia Heywood on LinkedIn. That's the best place to find me. Come and say hi. Always open to a good chat. Anything about construction contracts, I'm on it. But it's been great. I'm so grateful and thank you so much for having me. It's wonderful. I don't. Not often I get to share my version of things and like you said, you read the books and you go, and I've done that too. You go and you try to be like that person, but there you are again, not being you, that person is being them. That's why it works for them. But you can take pointers from everyone that. And try things. Try. If you have the opportunity to try, you can try things and see how it works for you and find your own way. The best negotiators find their own way. And you have to find your own way and the way that works for your industry as well. And everything will just take off from there. Remember that you are the salt. Be there as yourself. Find your connection to the purpose. Go higher. Go above all the noise down here, all the tension, all the aggression, and go higher. And like you said, in some negotiations, people try to tit for tat. It's not about that. If you bring the purpose with you, if you bring the transformation, if you look. And I think that's one of the things. When I worked like in, I worked like in Uganda, I worked in Indonesia, when you look at the faces of people. And one of the things I like to do, even now, I work in my own business. I go to the sites, I have to go to the community. I have to see the people, I have to see where I have to put a face to it. Because that's how you bring the human first. Because then you see the kids at the school. You can't use that. Is this paint? Okay, I know you want to cut costs, but I've seen the kids. So we're going to have to do it another way. But when you don't have that human led approach and understand that it's bigger than just what's on paper, it's bigger than just these people in the room, it's bigger than us. Then you just cut corners. You just do things that you shouldn't do, which comes back to the Bible. We all know how that goes. The lesson is learned. So be yourself.

I love it. And that's the message there. Be yourself. Patricia, thank you for being you and thanks for coming on the podcast.

Thank you.

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