Reverse Interview: Mastering Difficult Conversations - Lindsay Andrews Interviews Kwame Christian

Hello, my friends, and welcome to a special episode of Negotiate Anything. As always, we are produced by the American Negotiation Institute. With over 10 million downloads and listeners in more than 180 countries, you've made us the world's number one negotiation podcast. I'm Kwame Christian, the founder and CEO of the American Negotiation Institute, and our goal is simple. We want to make your difficult conversations easier and more productive. In today's episode, it's a little bit different. It's all about you, our listeners. This is part of our Negotiate Anything live series on LinkedIn. We record the episode live, allowing you to ask your questions and engage directly with the content. If you want to join the next live session and be part of this interactive experience, make sure you follow me on LinkedIn. We'll put a link in the description for you. Now, before we dive into this episode, remember, we offer keynotes and trainings in negotiation and conflict resolution. We're here to support you and your team both in person and virtually wherever you are in the world. Check out the link in the description to learn how we can work together. And now, without further ado, let's jump into your questions and explore the art of negotiation together.

All right, I have a very special guest today, Kwame Christian. Welcome to the show, Lindsay.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, yeah. I have been a fan and really, really appreciate the work that you do, and I've been really anticipating this conversation because you are a pro at difficult conversations. So why don't you tell me a little bit about what you do and what you've been up to?

Yeah. So I think as we. As we get started in this conversation about difficult conversations, it's important to think about my origin in this, because I came to this field because I was profoundly bad at having difficult conversations. So I'm a recovering people pleaser. And now what I. What I've done is I've shifted my identity from people pleaser to negotiator. And so this journey is really interesting because I wasn't even really aware of the concept of negotiation until law school. And the only reason I took the negotiation course was because it fit into my schedule. And when I took the course, it was eye opening because it was the first time I saw that this is a skill, a skill, not just a talent. I could actually learn how to get better. I could advocate for myself, I can stand up for myself, and I have the formula. So I was obsessed with it. So we had these negotiation competitions at school, and I competed in that with my partner, and we won that Competition. And then that gave us the opportunity to represent the school at the American Bar association competition in Ottawa, Ontario. And. And we went and we won that competition as well. So I was hooked. I was hooked. And so I was saying to myself, this is great. I want to do this conflict resolution negotiation, alternative dispute resolution. Because every time I did it successfully, it was a vote in favor for the man that I actually want to be. But for me, when I had opportunities to teach other people and see them have that aha moment, that's when I said, I need to teach this to other folks. And so that's what led me to start the American Negotiation Institute. And that's what we do. We have the number one negotiation podcast in the world, Negotiate Anything. And we get to serve some of the largest organizations in the world, teaching people how to negotiate and resolve conflicts.

Wow. Wow. I love hearing that. It's a skill. It's not a talent, folks. It is a skill, so it can be learned. And that's amazing. I was reading you're also a best selling author too, by the way, so you've got a couple books. And one I recently read was Finding Confidence in Conflict. And I really, really love that book. Right off the bat, you kind of start with your origin story, kind of how this whole thing got started. And I wanted to see if you could tell us a little bit about Kwame on the playground in rural Ohio. Tiffin, Ohio. And your experiences. Like how did you become a people pleaser? I felt like that was the start of where that all started for you.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think for everybody there is some origin story. There's something that was the catalyst to this type of behavior. And sometimes it's just your personality, but for me it was more just that childhood experience. So I'm a first generation Caribbean American. My dad's from Dominica, my mom's from Guyana. And so we moved into a small town called Tiffin, Ohio. And it is not known for its diversity. So my family, yeah, my family was very, very different. And I remember when I was six years old in first grade, there was a situation on the playground at recession. And I would go to different kids on the playground, I would say, hey, can I play with you? And they said, no, go up to somebody else. Hey, can I play with you? They said no. The whole pattern just repeated throughout the entire recess. And I tried to keep it together, but my heart was broken. I went inside and I just started crying. And the teacher asked, what's wrong? And I said, nobody would play with me. And so for me at that moment, I said, no matter what I do, I guarantee you that I will never feel this way again. And so I said, I'm going to make sure everybody's my friend. And so for me, when you look at it from the outside looking in, it looks really successful because I became the most popular kid in school. Everybody knew my name, I knew everybody else's name. It was a success in that regard. But then what it took for me to maintain that, that's what the problem was. Because I said, I'm not going to say or do anything that could jeopardize the friendships and relationships I work so hard to create. And so I would agree when I actually disagreed, and if I had any problems, I would just keep it all to myself. And so that was something that was a challenge for me just all throughout my life until college, when one of my mentors said, you have to recognize you have big dreams. There are things that you want to accomplish, but you're not going to be able to accomplish those if you're not willing to stand up for yourself and have these tough conversations. And he taught me that there was a difference between being liked and being respected. Those are not the same things. And so he helped me to understand that mentality, but I still didn't know how. And it wasn't until I learned about negotiation that I learned the skill set that was necessary to put it into action.

Wow. Wow. Isn't that something you kind of had this moment where you're like, this isn't. This isn't working for me. All these sort of things that you were doing, even though they, like you said they were successful in the moment, at the time, it wasn't really, you know, maybe a sustainable way to. To live your life moving forward. So I love. I love that acknowledg acknowledgement and always give a shout out to the mentors in our lives that sort of, you know, see something, say something profound and leaves an impression on us. Right. And like, okay, how do we translate that and do something different? So amazing.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. So I. I love this quote, and I feel like I've heard this. It's probably in your podcast, or maybe you've just. You've shared it with me before. But the best things in life often are on the other side of difficult conversations. And I think that is such an excellent quote and something to be reminded of. What do you think people, you know, maybe people's perceptions or myths about difficult conversations that prevent people from doing so.

I think One thing that holds people back is the fear that it will ruin the relationship. And that's something that holds people back. They're afraid of the response of the other party. And so that either completely holds them back from having the conversation they avoided completely, or when they're in the conversation, they don't say what needs to be said. So they're not wholeheartedly engaged, they're not vulnerable and transparent. So even though communication is happening, the true messages are not being sent. And one of the things that I recognize is that conflict is an opportunity. When you go back to the motto of the American Negotiation Institute, where we believe the best things in life are on the other side of a difficult conversations. And when you think about that, all right, I'm going to lean into the conversation. I'm going to have an opportunity based thinking framework for this. So whenever you find yourself afraid of these conversations, just force yourself to finish this sentence. This conversation is an opportunity to blank. There's always an answer there. It's an opportunity to learn, to grow, to repair a broken relationship, to, to get clarity, to solve a problem or all of these things, you know. But we're missing out on those opportunities if we don't move toward these conversations. So when you think about the psychology of humans, it's really simple. When we're approaching these new situations, we're asking ourselves a simple question. It's a binary choice. Should I approach or should I avoid? And if I focus on the risks, if I focus on the negative things that may occur, then I say I need to avoid this conversation. But if I start to think about this as an opportunity, then I can see the positive things that are on the other side of the conversation and it'll make it more likely for me to approach the conversation. And now when we're in the conversation, here's the thing that, that is a really tough truth to absorb. But when you actually pause and think about it, it makes a lot of sense. So when we're in these conversations, it gives you the opportunity to repair and strengthen worthy relationships. And it also gives you the opportunity to, to remove malignant relationships with minimal damage. Because in negotiation, it's the art of deal discovery, not the art of deal making. The worst thing that can happen sometimes is forcing a deal that never should have been made. Same thing with our relationships. Sometimes we have to have these conversations because there's something fundamentally wrong or broken in the relationship. Now I'm going to go in and see whether or not this is something that should be fixed, can or should be fixed. Or whether this is something where I say, you know what? Red flags everywhere. The best thing for me to do is respectfully remove this person from my life and move on to something better.

Yeah. Wow, that's interesting. Yeah. So, I mean, how do you. I mean, I just think about. Just every day. I mean, everything's a negotiation, right? Absolutely. So how. I mean, I guess I just. It's like, how do you know which things to stand on? How. What. What things are important enough to sort of, you know, bring to the table versus, I mean, is. I don't know. Or maybe you're just constantly negotiating, Kwame, like it's, it's an everyday thing as part of our lives. But, like, I don't know if I have a question baked in here or not, but it's just kind of like, how do you know when it's the right time to lean into something that's difficult?

Hello, my friends. Before we get back to today's episode, I want to ask you a question. Have you ever wondered how to elevate your team's negotiation game and how you can help the folks on your team have better, difficult conversations? At the American Negotiation Institute, we offer transformative keynotes and workshops tailored to empower professionals with top tier negotiations and conflict resolution skills. Whether it's a keynote for your next event or hands on training for your team, we've got you covered. Don't just negotiate. Master the art with the American Negotiation Institute. Click the link in the description to find out more. Elevate, negotiate, and succeed. Yeah, I think one of the tough things about this new approach to is that negotiation is not just an activity. It has to become an identity. So in these conversations, I'm approaching it as a negotiator. There's a goal that I'm trying to get to in every single conversation, even, even in the, like, the little, small, everyday conversations. My goal is to connect and hopefully uplift your experience of the day. And I will navigate the conversation with that intent in mind. And that's really important to keep in mind. Now, when it comes to identifying which conversations are worthy, there is no clear and easy metric like a, like a checkbox type of thing. And even if there was a metric or checkbox, most people wouldn't like whip out a piece of paper and go through it anyway. So I think what we have to do is just trust our judgment in this. And here's what I mean, if we get that inkling that should I have this conversation, the answer probably is yes. There's there's something inside of you that is saying that a conversation might happen. And if that's the case, then you can't fully understand whether or not a conversation should or should not happen only by yourself. Because if you're feeling that, it's potentially likely that the other person is feeling that too. So you should have an investigatory conversation to see whether or not a deeper conversation is even required. Because at the end of the day, negotiation is an information game. I want to gather high level information so I can then make a good decision. And I want to have mutual conversation. So you also have the best information you need in order to make an informed decision as well. And so if there's an inkling that a conversation needs to happen, I'm going to have the conversation just to see whether or not it's required. And if it's not required, if it turns out that the problem that I thought might have existed does not exist, the other person still feels respected by the fact that you care enough about them in the situation to even investigate and look into it. And when we think about this new identity as a negotiator, don't just think about it as a tool that we use externally with other people. I want you to think about this in terms of negotiating with ourselves for emotion management and better judgment and decision making too. This is the process of metacognition, thinking about thinking. I'm going to have this conversation with myself to figure out what I really want and why I want it, and then what I need to do in order to get it. And sometimes that's a better relationship, sometimes that's smoothing out problems, or maybe it's taking advantage of opportunities. But I want to get that internal clarity first before I have that external conversation with the other person.

So many things came up while you were saying that. I was trying to be a really good listener in that moment because I'm like, oh, I think that you hit on a really good point about if you have the inkling to follow up on it and to take action on it. And I think very much as I think about listeners, I think about my own personal journey with codependency, dependency recovery. Many, many years of my life, old patterns have been really around not trusting myself. And you know, it's like, oh, I have this feeling, oh, that's nothing, you know, or you know, and so I will, you know, for many, many years have discarded it as, you know, unimportant, or I didn't have enough self worth to be able to, you know, feel Like I could even say anything, right. And so kind of appreciate that sort of a little nudge to everyone to, you know, just listen to those inner nudges and those inklings to take action. Because if you're feeling that way, you know, trust, trust yourself. So I really appreciate that, that comment. And I didn't know if you wanted, because you're kind of talking a little bit about the compassionate curiosity framework, kind of dancing on it a little bit. I didn't know if you wanted to talk about that. I think that would be a really. I love this framework. I'd love for you to tell me a little bit more about it and if you could break it down a little bit. I just felt like it was a very simple approach for like, breaking it down. So a difficult conversation didn't feel like such an overwhelming moment, kind of getting yourself in check, you know?

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm glad that you recognize the simplicity because it took so long to get it that simple. And I'll start off with a Bruce Lee quote. He says, I don't fear the man who knows 1000 kicks. I fear the man who has practiced one kick 1000 times. And compassionate curiosity is your compassionate and nonviolent kick that I will teach you in this conversation. Because the thing is, a lot of times there are infinite amounts of conversational and rhetorical techniques that you can use, but it's unlikely that people are going to just hone all of those skills and keep just a backpack of skills and know when and how to use them. And then second of all, I recognize that in these conversations, we're very emotional and we are going to be flooded with cortisol, the stress hormone, and our limbic system is going to be firing. And so when it matters the most, we're typically not at our cognitive best. And so what I recognized as I was teaching people around the world how to negotiate is that I'll give them negotiation strategies, but it was hard for them to access those strategies under duress. So that's why I wanted to make sure that people have something simple that they can use as essentially their foundation for the entire conversation that they can flow through. So it's a simple three step framework. And the first step is acknowledge and validate emotions. The second step is get curious with compassion. And then the third step is use joint problem solving. And so we're going to assume that there is an emotional element in the conversation. And so we're going to lower the emotional temperature by labeling the emotions, acknowledging it, and validating it. Now Validation doesn't mean that we agree 100% or we endorse what they're saying, but it's recognizing that, hey, I can understand how your beliefs and your perceptions are leading to your feelings. And that makes sense. I got that. And you're going to go through that process until they calm down a little bit. You see the emotional temperature drop, then you get curious with compassion, asking open ended questions with a compassionate tone. And then as you gather more information and the emotion is down, then you can transition into that win win negotiation, trying to solve problems with the other side. And then the same framework can be utilized internally as a tool of introspection, emotion management and decision making. So we're going to label our own emotions. So what is it that, that we're feeling? Most likely it's multiple things. And then we're going to get curious what's self directed compassion, asking ourselves open ended questions with a compassionate tone to figure out why it is that we feel the way that we do. And then when we're using joint problem solving, what we're doing is we're reconciling the differences between our hearts and our minds. So what would satisfy me emotionally in this moment and then what should I actually do in this situation to make the situation better? And you can do that before the conversation if you feel that anxiety, stress or fear going into the conversation. And even during the conversation, if you start to get good at practicing this in the moment, you can take a deep breath, maybe take some notes and gather yourself in the moment and go through it really quickly and then come back to the conversation just a little bit more refreshed, with a little bit more focus too.

Yeah, I appreciate the breakdown. Yeah, I really liked sort of the internal, like, sort of preparation too. Like, you know, I'm trying to remember if it was around this, this particular framework or if it was like another part of your book. But I really like sort of, you know, jotting down, you know, what it is you're looking for and how are you feeling heart and mind about this. And, and I think that oftentimes the emotional does take over and you don't take time to have that reflective moment with yourself. And so I really kind of appreciated that I had a recent situation happen to me where I had to have a difficult conversation. And it was interesting because I didn't take action right away. And so you talk about that too in the book, like, hey, don't wait too long, get on that. But for me, however, for me, I needed to take a minute to really. Because I was very emotional about it. But it took me a moment with myself to kind of work through, okay, what's going on here? Why do I feel this way? What do I think the intent was of the other person? Can we give them the benefit of the doubt? So there was, there was a lot of preparation on my part and self talk to work myself up to say, okay, I'm going to lean in and I'm going to have this difficult conversation. And I was really, it was like kind of validating when I read that in your book, that I was like, oh, I did that now I took a week to get there, but I still move forward. And I was really proud of how I handled that and how I kind of represented myself in that moment. So, yeah, taking that time for yourself and making sure where you're at is really important and thinking about where they're at too. You know, I love the empathy and sort of the, sort of assuming the best for humanity. Right. We're all, we're all human beings here. We always just have a different. A different perspective that we're bringing to the table.

Absolutely. And Lindsay, first of all, kudos for having the conversation. And secondly, there are two things that I want to pull out from this. First, we have to recognize that emotions often precede understanding. So a lot of times we'll be confronted with a situation or a potential conversation and we'll feel a certain way about that, but we won't even understand why. And so our limbic system, our amygdala often can make that read faster. And then it's our job to go through that introspective process to figure out what that emotional signal is. And so that. That clarity is really important. We can't assume that we understand ourselves, you know, and, and that can be really hu. And then the second thing is, once you had the conversation, what did you feel? You felt proud, you felt pride. And what we have to do is sometimes what is required is we need to build up a treasure trove of evidence of our ability to perform in these situations. So let's go back to one of the things that you said. Sometimes in the past it felt hard to trust yourself. And I think sometimes you can reinterpret confidence as trusting your skills and trusting your ability to perform under certain circumstances. Trusting yourself is just like trusting somebody else. We need multiple positive interactions in order to build trust with other people. And we need multiple positive interactions to build trust with ourselves, utilizing new skills. So when you actually take the time to start having These conversations, despite the fact that you're scared, what you're doing is you're proving to yourself, I can trust myself under these circumstances. And I feel proud after that, the fact. And so you're starting to build this habit of engagement. It's a complete reframe of everything else. Because if you have that habit of disengagement, what we have is the. The cue, and then we have the. The reward. Like there's an anatomy of the. Of the habit creation. So I have a stimulus, and then I have a response, and then I have a reward. And so for disengagement, what it is, is I have a stimulus, which is a scary conversation. My response is avoidance. And by not doing the scary thing, I feel safe. And so that solidifies the habit. But now we're changing that habit by saying, okay, I have the stimulus, we have the scary conversation, and now I'm actually going to have the conversation. Then I feel proud. The pride is the reward. And so now we're just reprogramming our mind over time to engage really well in these conversations.

Yeah, and also reframing what the definition of safety. Right. So perceived safety, you know, and how, you know, you know, old coping mechanisms and patterns to kind of create a level of safety, you know, in childhood, let's say, versus when you become an adult. I mean, we have agency over our lives and over our choices as adults. And so, yeah, safety is a lot different to me than it. Than it used to be. So that's a really interesting thing that you just said there. Okay, cool. Well, I think one final sort of item that I wanted to touch upon was the confidence piece. I know you get that question a lot during your trainings. People are like, well, I can, like, really stand up for my kids, but I can't stand up for myself. I mean, women are really. It's common for women to struggle in that area of being able to stand up up for themselves, but we all struggle. It's not just a gender thing either. We all have different degrees of confidence. And so I guess my question is, like, how. How important is confidence in a difficult conversation? And if people are struggling to get there, how do you. How do you start building that muscle?

Confidence is crucial. Confidence is crucial. And I think one of the things that's important to recognize is that confidence is compartmentalized. And so you can be confident in one part of your life, but then you could be completely lacking in confidence in another part of your life. Even when it comes to difficult conversations, you can feel confident standing up to certain people under certain circumstances, but then there might be a certain person under other circumstances where you just cannot bring it to the table. Right? And so when you're going through this, we have to analyze these patterns. A lot of times we just avoid that. Only that, that, that reality in our heads. We just pretend like it's not the case, but we. The ostrich technique doesn't work. We have to address it. So we have to figure out, all right, what is it about this circumstance that that makes it so tough? And for me, it's the, the closer relationships because the stakes are higher, you know, because, yeah, if it's a business deal, even if there's a lot of money on the line, that's. I can, I can make more money. But if there's a, if it's a situation with like, my spouse, my kids, or a close friend or something like that, I can't just regenera with that level of closeness, you know? And so when you feel that pressure, it changes the level of confidence you have in that situation. And so I think it's important to break that down because it's going to be different for everybody. But understanding the origin and the root cause of your performance gap is what allows you to start to address that performance gap. And the solution is going to be different for everybody, because the problem is going to be different for everybody. And so really, what it comes down to is recognizing what are the, the problematic thought patterns that exist and then replacing them with more empowering thought patterns that are also true, and then just starting to get it in that habit of approaching things in that way. The next thing is, and this is the hardest part of creating that, that positive cycle of confidence is that there's no other way to build confidence than by taking action. And we have to start to recognize that these emotions that we receive, they come with messages, and some of them are true, some of them are fals. And it's our job to understand the difference. Because if the emotion is fear, it'll often come with a message of don't say anything, don't do anything, don't rock the boat, don't mess this up, right? But I can just recognize that if we're thinking about this through the lens of emotional intelligence and just going on this journey of life. My emotions will always be in the car, but I need to always be the person with their hand on the steering wheel, Will. So I can hear the fear. And then I'm going to say, all right, the fear is telling me to pull A U turn. Thank you for your contribution. I'm going to determine whether or not that's the way to go. I look at my map and I say, you know what? We're going straight. And so you will still feel that fear. And I want people to understand this, because confidence does not mean fearless. That's what we're talking about, courageous conversations. If you're having a courageous conversations, it requires fear, because there's no courage without fear. Right? And so in these situations, you have to recognize, even for me, and I do this for a living, I still feel that fear. But it's my job to overcome that and take action anyway. And one of the things that I found, Lindsay, is that fear feeds on time. The more time we give it, the more it will start to grow. And I'm not encouraging people to be reckless. Just jump into conversations without preparation. Give yourself time to prepare, but also recognize that fear is a very crafty emotion, and so it will convince you to do other things to avoid the conversation. It won't always manifest itself in terms of, hey, you're afraid. Don't do it because you're scared. It might say, hey, you know what? You're an intellectual. You need to think this through. Have you done any research on it? Have you listened to various. You know what? There's a good book you should read before having this whole conversation. Okay, well, maybe you should talk to this person, set up this. Set all of these things. And then. Then what we're doing is we're creating more space and distance between right now and having the conversation. And until it gets to a point where you're. It's like three months later, and now it'll be really weird to bring it up. Right? And so we just have to recognize that. That. That is the pattern that will happen when you let fear have its hand on the wheel. And so building confidence does not mean you're going to be comfortable during that process. And. And honestly, one last note. This is closely tied to imposter syndrome for me, because this is something that a lot of high performers feel. And it comes from the reality that if we're growing, we're constantly pushing the border, the boundaries of our comfort. If you're not feeling imposter syndrome, likely it's because you're not pushing yourself very hard. And so I have to recognize that imposter syndrome is just part of this journey. It's never going away. This is just part of my story. And now I've reconceptualized it. If I'm feeling that that means it's an opportunity for me to level up. Oh, yeah, this is scary. I don't necessarily like this feeling, but it's actually a signal that I'm probably on the brink of doing something really big, something that is important, something that's going to move me to a new level. And it's a level that I've never been at, and I'm not quite sure if I can cut it at that level. But it's my job to keep on listening to that signal and then figuring out where and how I need to level up and improve in order to sustain myself at this new level. So fear and imposter syndrome, in my experience and in the experience of other people, a lot of times it just doesn't go away. It's just about finding a way to manage it and move forward in spite of it.

Yeah. Did you call that productive fear? Is that what you call it? I'm trying to remember what that in your book. I really like that because I was. It's like a way to label. I'm always looking for different perspectives on, you know, like, oh, we have this fear. But, like, how do I. It's like, yes, it exists, but, like, hearing that productive fear made me feel like, oh, well, this means I'm doing something with it. I'm taking action. It's actually going to take me to another, you know, another place. And so I appreciated that and that little nugget there, so. Well, that's cool. That's cool. And I appreciate, too, the imposter syndrome thing. I think everybody feels that, like you said, it's kind of like this. You know, it's just going to always be present as we continue to challenge ourselves and to do new things. So one final quote from your book that stuck out to me, and you're like, okay, what. What do you got for me? I underlined it, and it says we are allowing the world to shape us every time we choose not to engage in these difficult conversations. And it's so true, right? It's so true. It's like if we just stand back and. And choose. Choose to avoid having these conversations and. And we really don't get anywhere and we don't have deeper relationships. And I think that's ultimately what we're looking for. Fruitful, loving, nurturing, caring relationships in our lives. And difficult conversations are just part of that.

Absolutely. Oh, yeah. It's. It's. It's encouraging, it's exciting, but it's also terrifying. It's because I remember when we had Kai and then subsequently Dominic. I remember when it was time to bring him home, I was thinking, like, there's something wrong with our system. I'm not equipped to have this baby. You know, like, what am I supposed to do to keep another human alive? This is irresponsible. Right. And. And then I. I think about it for ourselves when we're having these conversations and recognizing that we can shape our lives by having these conversations, it's kind of scary because it's like, wait a second. I can't blame anybody. It's really up to me. It's. I'm in control of that. That's a lot of responsibility, and I think sometimes it is. It doesn't improve our position, but it allows us to play this game without. With less play pressure. If we can always play with the excuse of blaming somebody else. Well, they were doing this to me. They were doing that. This situation was. Was. Was like that. If those things weren't happening, then my life would have been perfect. Perfect. And, yeah, like the. We free. We forget to recognize that we have the power to have these conversations and shape these relationships and shape these situations. And, yeah, it's daunting to take that responsibility, but it can be really, really enlightening, and it could be the catalyst of the life that we deserve.

Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Call me. I really appreciate you. Is there any final thoughts you want to leave us with before I let you guys?

Yeah, I would say just. I think it's the best slogan in the world. As much as I love mine. Just do it. Just do it. Like, we. We need to start taking action. If you were listening to this episode and you're saying, man, I need. There's a conversation that's been lingering that I've been holding back on. Now's the time. This was the sign for you to take action. And I think it's just important to recognize that you have what you need to be successful in these. Com. These conversations. You have the compassionate curiosity framework that is more than enough to navigate through the majority of these conversations. So you just have to trust the process and begin to trust yourself and take action. Just do it.

Well said, Kwame. It's been awesome having you on the show. Thank you so much.

Oh, it's my pleasure. Thanks for having me. Congratulations. You've just joined an elite club by listening to a full episode. You're now officially on the Negotiate Anything team. So welcome aboard. What most team members do is they subscribe to the podcast because that allows them to automatically get the latest episodes of the show. The best things in life lie on the other side of difficult conversations. Keep learning, keep practicing, and keep getting better. Your relationships will improve, your career will soar, and you'll have the confidence you need to get the most out out of these crucial conversations. Again, thank you for joining the team. We're excited to have you, and I will see you in the next episode. I'll catch you later.