Streamlining Digital Negotiations: Olga Mack’s Expertise on Legal Tech

Hey, I'm Kwame Christian, and you are about to step into the world of Negotiate Anything, the number one negotiation podcast in the world, where we teach you how to make difficult conversations easier while getting more of what you want in the process. Each episode is packed with practical tips and strategies from the experts. We delve into negotiation, conflict resolution, and leadership skills that are crucial in both business and in life. Whether you're closing a deal, managing a team, or navigating personal relationships, Negotiate Anything provides you with the tools you need to succeed. Our conversations are real, relatable, and most importantly, rooted in practicality. So if you're ready to transform your conversations and elevate your negotiation skills, join me on Negotiate Anything. Subscribe and listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify.

Or wherever you love to listen.

Let's make every conversation a winning negotiation.

Olga, thanks for joining us today.

Oh, hello. It's good to be here.

Yes, and it is a pleasure to have you, my friend. So how would you get us started? By telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do.

All right, well, hey there. I am Olga Mack, a digital transformation executive at LexisNexis. My mission, you know, making law cool and accessible with the power of technology. That's a large, audacious mission. I've been lucky to score some of the sort of awesome awards like Silicon Valley Women of Influence and ABA Women in Legal Tech. So pinch me twice. It feels like a dream. And I've had an opportunity to speak about the future of law at various, not one, not two, at three TEDx stages. I like the blend of law, tech, and business, and it gets me really excited how law will be serving all of us in my lifetime. And I say my lifetime is the most operative word because I know for a fact that the arch of history is bending towards service. The main question is, will it happen in my lifetime? And so I'm really, really dedicated to that. That's why I share a lot of my thoughts at all kinds of places, including above the Law and ACC docket, and on my podcast, Notes to my Legal Self. And that's why I teach at Berkeley Law and actively participate as a Codex Fellow at Stanford Law to build the future of law, which I think will be of service and will be highly digital. So excited to be here. That's a little bit about myself and I'm happy to answer any other questions you may have.

Love it, Olga. I'm excited and I've been excited for this ever since we met at Contracts Con with Laura Frederick. I feel like that is the ultimate place for legal nerds to get together and have fun.

It's a very specific place and it self selects amazing professionals, for sure.

Yes.

I think that's a good way to put it because we all had a.

Blast there, like learning more about the technology and how to create great contracts and negotiate the contracts and everything. So that was fun. And that's when I met you there I was saying, okay, I need to get Olga on the podcast because your approach is really unique and you're doing some incredible things in the industry. And so can you actually take us to the beginning and walk us through how you got to this point in your career?

That's a long story. I think we will lose all listeners. So let me start from the end instead of from the beginning. Today I'm building the future of law. And this is the most important mission. And it's a mission of my lifetime that will be my legacy. That is why I'm here. I'm very passionate about this mission and in the past I've done some amazing things as well, I guess. Fun fact, have been in disruptive cool industries and technologies before. Folks heard of them. I've been in SaaS, data, AI, ML, blockchain, crypto before they have been in main media and an average professional consumer have heard of them. And I'm very proud of that fact. I am a tech lawyer by design. I went to law school to be on intersection of law and technology. I've always known that I will be doing that. What I didn't know is that at some point I will exit the practice of law. After I had a chance to be at big law at Fortune 500 company, actually a Fortune 100 company and various pre IPO technology startups. And now I have an opportunity to build the future of law. And that's why I get up in the morning and I'm really excited about this mission and I have a lot of energy and passion behind it.

I love it. I love it.

Yeah.

And this is really important just for professionals in general, but I really think, and you know, I'm biased too as a lawyer. I think it's really important for us to have people like you pushing us forward to make sure that we are adopting technologies in order to increase the quality and quantity of the work that we can do. And one of the things that I wanted to talk about today is digital negotiation. Because law, just like any other industry, we are online more than ever, we're connecting digitally more than ever. And so that's going to change the way that we interact and communicate with each other. And so when you think about digital negotiation, I guess we should just start off with the definition. How would you define digital negotiation?

Yeah, no, that's a great question. You know, think of digital negotiation as taking traditional principles and process and digital makeover in some way. It's a story from typewriter to computer to phone. It is not all that different in that you still use words and you convey ideas through writing and speaking, but the tools you use are much more evolved and much more on point and they give you, yes, efficiency and yes, intelligence and yes, they streamline and they help you, you know, live a happier life as a happier professional who is very impactful. So we're talking about, you know, hopping into cloud based platform where people from, you know, all corners of the world can join in and be part of the conversation in a controlled way. It's like a virtual party where everyone gets to contribute their knowledge and it's an experience in a streamlined way. Be part of the discussions, be part of the decision making, both internal conversation and external, internal. And you have a chief negotiator who is leading all of that and making sure that it is all done in secure, professional, streamlined way. And it is a highly satisfying experience, not only because you get results done, but also because the process makes sense and it is so seamless that people can focus on the strengths and vitality and impact of their ideas.

So much to explore. Okay. One of the things that you mentioned a number of times is this needs to be streamlined. And if we do this the right way, it can be seamless, it can be efficient and it can be effective. And when we think about digital negotiations and that term streamlined, how would you define it in the context of digital negotiations? The word streamlined?

Yeah. No. As a lawyer, somebody who practiced law for 15 years, I used to say that red lines and imagine not equal sign negotiations. In fact, I would say red line is actually sucking the soul out of negotiation because you spend it is so much time reconciling drafts, writing emails, looking for email forwarding, reforwording. I don't care how brilliant your ideas are, whatever passion you had about the negotiation will be, you know, subdued, if not killed in the process. You're not focused on negotiations, you are not thriving, you are surviving. You are making sure that people looking at the right documents, that they're looking at the latest red line, that they are getting the latest email. You know, you've been on calls where you get on the call and, and half of the group never Seen the latest draft? They're still, I don't know, in last century. You know, that's why those calls are an hour. They really should be 15 minutes. But the reason they are an hour is because it's going to take us 45 minutes to get literally on the same page. And by the time you get there, 45 minutes later, you're not streamlined. You just want to be done. You're sick and tired of being with these people. Even if you are getting to a happy outcome, you are just there because this needs to be finished and accomplished. And so it's not done in the most, you know, streamlined way. Alternatively, you can be on the same page, literally. This is what digital negotiation gives you. Your calls could be 15 minutes, and your focus could be, let's do the best job I can. And if that's your only focus for the call, I guarantee you you're much more likely to be there.

Brilliant. I love this. And it makes me focus on three words. So we have time, we have focus, we have energy. And so when we're going through the negotiation process, we understand that it's going to take time, it's going to require focus, and. And it's going to require energy. And really what it sounds like is that when we are not mindful of how to streamline this process, it is going to take our time, focus, and energy and put it on other things outside of the negotiation, getting everybody on the same page, making sure everybody's referring to the same documents and the latest drafts of those documents and things like that. And you're right, we are losing a lot of time, focus, and attention simply because we don't have a streamlined process. And so I'm really glad that we were putting this one together because you're right, we're not negotiating. We're spending more of our time getting organized because we have allowed ourselves to get so disorganized with the process of digital negotiation.

More importantly, we're not just not negotiating. We're not even building relationships. Looking for. The process of looking for a draft is not conducive to building your relationship. It's conducive to everyone rolling their eyes and judging each other. That's not the best way to show up. The best way to show up is to, like, everyone has my. The latest draft. Now look at paragraph two, line 25. Everyone who has an opinion, please share. And if you don't, let's sign the deal and go forward. If your conversation is something other than that or imagining what your future will Be after you sign, which is a more relationship building conversation. If your conversation, let's find the latest draft and where it's buried and. And whether it's in your spam box or whether you were even cc. If that's your conversation, you're neither getting to yes nor you are building relationship. Your future is not going to be bright.

So smart. You're so right. And also, if you don't have the streamlined process, you might run the risk of people associating that feeling of stress and disorder with you. It's like you did not get your stuff together. If this is what it is like to just try to have an organized.

Conversation with you, what would it be like trying to work with you?

And so we have to think about the fact that our reputation is online based on how well or how poorly we organize and arrange this negotiation as well.

Yes. And yes. Your negotiations that color the relationship going forward. I can't tell you how many times I would tell folks on my team they are right now on their best behavior if you cannot stand them today before we signed, I'm just saying it's not going to get better after we sign the thing. So think long and hard how you show up in negotiation because that's the dating portion of the relationship. And if it's not enjoyable, if your dating is not enjoyable, maybe do not get married.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Because as you were saying, they're on their best behavior right now. It sounds like Olga is giving the advice I give to all my single friends after the third date. Like, if you're seeing all these red flags right now, they did you a favor, you know.

So thank you for the full disclosure. I now can make a great decision for my future and you.

Exactly. And the fact that you are not in the future.

Right.

And the fact that you are not in my future.

This is great.

Okay, so let's make this practical. So let's say somebody's listening and they're saying, all right, Olga, I'm on board. I need to clean up my game. When it comes to digital negotiations, what are some things that they can do to make these negotiations a bit more streamlined? Hello, my friends. Before we get back to today's episode.

I want to ask you a question. Have you ever wondered how to elevate.

Your team's negotiation game and how you can help the folks on your team have better, difficult conversations?

At the American Negotiation Institute, we offer transformative keynotes and workshops tailored to empower.

Professionals with top tier negotiation and conflict resolution. Skills.

Whether it's a keynote for your next event or hands on training for your.

Team, we've got you covered.

Don't just negotiate.

Master the art with the American Negotiation institute. Click the link in the description to find out more. Elevate, negotiate and succeed. What are some things that they can do to make these negotiations a bit more streamlined?

There's quite a few things you can do. Yes, you can organize what you have. Your existing stuff, your existing templates, your existing contracts, you, existing positions, your existing playbooks. By virtue of being organized without having digital negotiation, you can quickly get to be on the same page. Oh, you don't have the latest draft here. There you go. I mean, just by virtue of being organized, that's a lot of pressure in the 21st century where we have more digital paper than we ever had before. At some point, smart, intelligent professionals look for shortcuts. How do I show up as friendly, impactful professional that I am, despite the fact that I have an overwhelming number of stuff in my life, Emails, digital papers, calls, whatever. And the way to do it is using technology, some sort of workflow, so some sort of automation, some sort of, I don't know, increasingly intelligent being that helps you succeed despite you, but, you know, not because of your overwhelm. Right at that point.

Your digital negotiation is definitely something you.

Should think about because it will help you organize yourself, clarify your positions, show up on the same page. Even if you have, you know, my kids could walk in at any time, a bunch of people could be calling me, 200 emails in my inbox that I will probably never read. I will still succeed despite the fact that life happening to me and the way to do it is through technology, digital negotiation that has all of that built in. So that when we get on the call, we are on the same page. And those 15 minutes you're going to get undivided attention from me, the chief negotiator, we're going to get it done. You're going to have a great impression of me. We're going to have a fantastic professional marriage.

I love it. No, this is good.

And again, it shows the importance, like you said, of organization, Just having those simple things in order, Just taking the time to put those things in order makes the conversation go so much more smoothly. And I think when I even think about how I feel, when I know that I have these things in order, where if somebody asks for this document or wants to refer to a portion of the contract, things like that, when I know that I have that at the tip of My fingers, either, you know, physically or digitally. I feel a lot more confident in that interaction, too. I'm not sitting there saying, man, I hope they don't ask for that document.

Because I don't know.

Or, like, imagine you staring at somebody's face. They're now looking at another screen, not a flattering angle. Searching through their inbox, you see the stress on their face. Then they inadvertently share a screen. You see all kinds of stuff on their screen. You're like, oh, man, what if they show this to my competitor next time? All of those things that go through your head when you see somebody's inbox, when you see their incorrectly shared screen, when you watch them search through their inbox, that's not inspiring. That doesn't give you confidence that they are on top of it. It doesn't give you confidence that they're inadvertently not going to show you a wrong thing or show your thing to a wrong party. That's where you want to be. You want to be at a place where you trust your partner to show up professionally every time.

Exactly.

No, this is great.

And before we go, I want to make sure that I give you a chance to talk about the tech that you have with Lexus, because there is some of that functionality built into what you have, right?

Absolutely. So Lexus Nexus Purchase, what used to be known as Parley Pro, which is now known as Counseling clm, we are part of Counseling elm, or Enterprise Legal Management. So we now have the matter management, the billing and the contract portion. And the contract portion has the digital negotiation. And a digital negotiation is a fancy way to collaborate. It's a fancy way to get consensus internally. Because, as you know, negotiation, you know, if it's just between you and I, it's one on one. But really, it's many too many. Right. When you have many too many conversations, the challenges we described are amplified. And what's important is step one, building consensus internally to communicate it in a controlled way externally. And three, getting on the same page with the external party. All of those things have to happen before you get to, yes, technology can help you do this. So the collaborative engine of technology allows you to build consensus internally. Your privacy security professional will review clauses and provide opinions, and your finance will review certain clauses and provide opinions. And then you, as a chief negotiator can reconcile, go back, build that consensus internally, and then when you're ready, you can a la carte all at once, bring the other side on the same page, and then have literally a conversation on the same page without sending Drafts, because you're always on the one page, which is the latest page, unless you want to see the what happened in the past. And so if you do this way, you are allowed in counseling CLM to seamlessly get everybody on board internally and then have a professionally streamlined experience of getting to yes with your third party.

Okay. Okay. So for me, as a lawyer, this is kind of groundbreaking because I'm thinking through so many annoying redlining negotiations I've had.

This is mind blowing because this might just simplify everything.

So within this one platform, I could get that internal alignment. But then at the same time, when it's actually time to negotiate with the other side, we both could be editing the same document. So we don't need to keep sending like emailing red lines back and forth.

There is no email. As liberating as it sounds. There is no more draft.

Like we are literally on the same page. If you want to do a historic.

Excavation of what happened in the past, you have an audible trail, but you.

Are always on the right page.

There is no way to be on the wrong page because there's only one page that is current today and you are literally in it.

And yes, you build this consensus and.

You bring people in not into a.

Draft, but into a quad. So as a security professional and you have say 20 to 100 page document. Have you ever watched this? What I think is the saddest thing in the world when somebody who actually doesn't like, who didn't go to law school, who really doesn't want to deal with contracts, but they have to review a clause in the contract and they go like up and down, finding the little paragraph and on page 27 and they just can't like really find it and borderline insulting you trying to be patient without putting even more pressure on them as they scroll up and down past it.

Right?

But you are trying to be gracious and patient and they are feeling a lot of pressure no matter what you do. But really all they need to look at a paragraph. In counseling clm, you actually get a link right into paragraph. You never have to do this. The embarrassing scroll up and down, like say goodbye to that. That is uncomfortable.

That should not be part of anyone's experiences.

Not as an observer and not as a recipient.

And then you provide feedback at that.

Place, at that sentence and be done with it. Whoever is a chief negotiator, they can read the whole thing like a novel.

From the beginning to end or end to the beginning or from the middle.

Out, whichever they love. And when it's all ready to be shared in pieces. So you can in counseling clm, you don't have to share all your red lines all at once. You can decide that your security paragraph and your privacy paragraph and your pricing is ready, but your limit of liability is not. And so you just share what's ready for the other side to consume and you don't have to wait for the whole thing get together. And so you can have simultaneous conversations about pricing externally and limits of liability internally. All of that in a controlled way. The external party will have no idea what's happening on the limit of liability side unless you're ready to reveal that position. So that obviously gives you additional tools in your negotiations, not just with respect.

To substance and sending, but also with timing. You may choose to share pricing in the end or in the beginning. You may choose to deal with limit of liability upfront or at the very, very end. Like this is where your strategy as a negotiator comes in. You may want to discuss the pricing up front and show them what is a big pot at the end. That puts a lot more pressure for them to be much more generous and limit of liability because they know the definition of success at this point. So there is a lot of things you can do as a negotiator with this tool. Yes, because you're on the same page. Yes, because you have both internal and external conversations at the same time which add a lot of efficiencies. And yes, it gives you an ability as a chief negotiator to really think through, you know, how do you get what you want? Do you do it through pressure or do you show them what success looks like? How you do it in the way that gets you to. Yes. Sooner and shows you to be the best partner that you can be in this, let's just say professional marriage.

I love it.

This is great. This is really great.

I appreciate this insight. I think first of all, we got some great tips on digital negotiation in general and then I love the example, what it could actually look like in one self contained piece of technology. So I appreciate this, very, very, very helpful. And Olga, before you go, I want to give you an opportunity again to shout out what you're doing at Lexis and how people can get in touch.

I am building the future of law. Contracts is a big part of it, but generally speaking, LexisNexis is a big player in the future of law. I'm really excited and privileged to be part of it. Fun fact. I was a LexisNexis rep. When I was a law student for three years, I was helping the lab, making sure that folks in my class above and below were using it. As you can tell, I love the products. I understand the product, the research tools, the software tools and the SaaS tools that we now offer. I think all of it fits beautifully in one offering. And I have a vision that we're gonna get all of this where we practice law, all the research, all the guidance, all the tools that we can streamline our conversations internally and externally so we can show up like ninjas we are. And we can be impactful and professional and succeed because of ourselves and despite of ourselves. So I'm really excited and privileged to build the future of law at LexisNexis. I show up at many places. I tell my friends that I love to crush many weddings. But the consistent place where I show up every day is LinkedIn. I share a lot of tips and tricks about how to practice law better, how to negotiate better, how to build better. What I would like the future of law to be. Most importantly, I would love it to be of service because Lady Justyce is blind for a reason. And it's because she's here to serve and she's here to serve all of us, not just a select few who happen to have money. So I'm really excited to build that future of law and I hope you join me on LinkedIn and other places where I crash weddings to do that. Let's make sure that lady justice does her thing.

Love it, Olga.

Really appreciate it.

And listeners definitely follow Olga on LinkedIn. We're connected and that's where we got connected. And yeah, I think. Did I question, did I know of you before? Were we connected before contracts con?

What do we. I'm sure we have. I think both you and I get out there is a tendency when you go to many weddings is to, you know, be sailing ships. I certainly have heard of your work and I'm really grateful that you show up consistently and focus on this important life skill, not just legal skill or business skill of negotiation. You are my friend, doing a lot of public service. I don't know if anyone telling you this, but I'm grateful for what you do and the tips you share and the way you show up consistently. That is the massive, massive public service. So thank you so much.

Thank you. Hey, I appreciate that. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Now, before you sign off, I have something to tell you that I've never told you before. Just kidding. I've told you before, but you should Listen to it again. I want you to know about Negotiate Anything Premium. Imagine all of the things that you love about our traditional feed, plus so much more. I know you like our traditional feed because you're at the end of the episode and with Negotiate Anything Premium, you'll get more bonus content you've been asking for, more of the expert insights that you can't get anywhere else, and more exclusive behind the scenes access into every conversation. Are you ready to get more of what you want out of your life, career and every conversation? With Negotiate Anything Premium, you'll have access to more high level, custom designed content and insights giving you the tools you need to negotiate higher salaries, better deals and better relationships in your life and career. Once I had a listener share that Negotiate Anything helped her to negotiate a $53,000 raise. Could this be you? What would that mean for your life? I've seen firsthand the impact this model has had on my life and the lives of my corporate clients, and I am confident that it can do the same for you. Are you ready to negotiate more of the best things in life? Click the link in the show notes to learn more.

I'll catch you later.