The importance of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion in Sales and Negotiation With Damion Wright

Hello, my friends, and welcome to another exciting episode of Negotiate Anything. This show is produced by the American Negotiation Institute and with over 5 million downloads and listeners in over 180 countries, listeners just like you have made this the number one negotiation podcast in the world. Hi, my name is Kwame Christian and I am the founder and CEO of the American Negotiation Institute here at A&I. We believe that the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. And we are passionate, passionate about providing you with the best content that will help you to make your difficult conversations easier, both at work and at home. Lastly, I want to remind you that we offer consulting and conduct trainings both virtually and in person all around the world. Our focus is in three main areas. First, negotiation and conflict resolution. Second, leadership. And lastly, diversity, equity, and inclusion.

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And now, without further ado, let's jump into the interview. Damian, thanks for joining us today.

I appreciate it. Kwame, great to be here. Super humbled.

Yeah, man, it's our pleasure to have you. So how would you get us started? By telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do.

Yeah. So, Damian, in let's call it 30 to 45 seconds, previously a professional athlete, move to sales leader, move to HR professional. And today, while I'm here is to talk about DamianWright.com which is my consultant business and our focus on DEI and sales and negotiation. Been in the industry for about 20 years or so and really looking forward to opening up the conversation with you, Kwame.

Damien, there's so much I wanted to explore, but briefly, I know other people are wondering it too. Tell us about your pro sports background. That's really cool.

Yeah. So I went to Weber State University just outside of Salt Lake City in Ogden, Utah. All American football player, got a chance to play in the league. I tell people I was a scrub at best and didn't make the final cut. But I did make it to the big league. Played for Seattle, and I played in NFL Europe as well.

That is amazing. Kudos. Listen, I aspired to be a scrub in my youth and I didn't make it. So kudos. Kudos to you.

I appreciate that. Yes.

Well, this is great because of course, on the Negotiate Anything podcast, we are big fans of negotiation. We like sales, too. They're cousins. We like that, too. And I think a lot of times people would hear the way you described your consulting and coaching business as very interesting, very unique sales. We understand you have that sales background. And you also do dei. But people are probably wondering, what is the connection?

You know, it's really interesting on the connection points of diversity, equity and inclusion in sales. And you know, as we move on in the conversation, just because it's a mouthful, I'll say DEI just to reference diversity, equity and inclusion for those that aren't familiar with it and even for those that are. So, you know, what I think about is starting with the customer. Right? So just think about, for example, you, Kwame, in this world of a growing podcast that's grown leaps and bounds, you know, what does your customer base look like, who listens to Kwame every single day, who listens to every episode and is inspired by you. When you think about that from a business perspective, you're touching people all over the United States, all over the world. And for that reason, because like, from a diversity, equity and inclusion perspective, because you're able to open up to such a large crowd like that, what does that do for your business? It helps it elevate. Versus if you said, look, I'm going to focus on salespeople just in the United States, would that be as powerful? So, like really expanding what your audience looks like and how you can bring them in and add value to them on a daily basis.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It seems like if you're able to speak to multiple audiences, it puts you in a position from a business perspective to expand exponentially.

Yes. And not only so, yes, you're expanding, but think about the perspective that you get and let me tap into that just a little bit. Think about the comments that you get on your Apple. When people play it back on Apple, when people play it back on Spotify, there's a diverse range of comments that talk about what these conversations do for individuals. And if you didn't diversify your guests, your audience would probably be pretty narrow. However, you've been very intentional about diversifying your not only your guests, which in turn diversifies your audience. And again, it goes back to what we said at ground zero. That's how you grow your market share.

Yeah, 100%. 100%. And it actually reminds me of a story, Damian. And I think for most leaders and most humans, a lot of the best lessons come from pain. So I'll share a story speaking about the stars and the comments and the, the reviews. And some people might be listening and saying, oh, what reviews? I haven't left a review. Well, this is a reminder to leave a five star review. Please say something nice because I do Read every single one of them. But I remember one time, I remember every single one. And it was in, I believe, the fall of 2019. I received a review from a woman who said, this feels like a boys club. The episodes that I talked, I listened to, it was all men and it seemed like a boys club. And that one hurts because I realized that I didn't do a good job of having much gender diversity on the podcast. And that made me reflect and say, well, what other kind of diversity was lacking? And then another friend who is black, and for the listeners who might not know, I am black too, he said that there wasn't enough racial diversity on the podcast. And then I looked at it and I said, wow, it's, it's true. I live in Columbus, Ohio. A lot of my friends are white males. And, and so it was a really interesting eye opening type of experience, recognizing that I was limiting myself by not paying attention to the diversity of thought on the show. And so there was racial, there was gender. But then also when it came to the different occupations of folks who were on the podcast too, made me really open my eyes. So I can 100% agree with you and see that too. You limit your audience by not being able to speak different languages and show that you respect them by allowing them to see themselves in the.

Yes, yes. And my question to you is, like, when you were intentional about making that change, what did that do for your podcast?

Oh, it grew significantly. You know, now we're the number one negotiation podcast in the world. Listeners in 180 different countries, over 5 million downloads and a deal with LinkedIn. And I don't think any of those things would have happened if I didn't take that feedback to heart. And again, I think people would look at me and just assume, hey, Kwame is a black male. And so diversity box checked. There's so many different layers to it. And I think one of the most interesting things for me, Damien, is the fact that this show and learning from different people in different countries with different backgrounds and all those types of things helped me to realize that I can continue to improve as a conversationalist. And it's helped me to communicate with and connect with people who are really different from me.

Yeah. And so what I would like to unpack what you just said. We're talking about a podcast. You know, I'm not in your pockets to, you know, ask you about how much money you generate. But just think if there's a multi billion dollar industry that has a CEO that is able to Articulate exactly what you just said and approach their business as diversity, equity and inclusion is a business problem versus this entity that sits in human resources that gets a little bit of funding. So if you look at it like the first way I was talking about, just think how your people will in essence, run through a wall for you because they believe that they're heard, they see themselves, they understand the value that they bring to the organization because you, as the leader of the organization, value their perspective, if that makes sense.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's so true. And I'm assuming too, for the people who are in that organization, they're going to feel respected and appreciated on a different level too.

Yes. And then let's go a little bit further on that. Kwame, if you don't mind, just think about how that's going to trickle down to the leaders that report into the CEO. Like if he's setting the vision, the leaders need to take action on, like how diversity, equity and inclusion shows up in sales, in account management, it could be in marketing. Whatever part of your business, it needs to come come to life in. The leaders need to set the tone from the top down. And if, and you and I both know there's leaders that do it for performative reasons and there's leaders that do it because they're intentional and they care. And I know who I would want to work for is the ones who care.

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Right back after this. I think when we think about the listeners who are in sales and negotiation who are more on the transactional side, I think this is really instructive for them as well because I think it's easy for people who are in the business world to just say, hey, this, this touchy feely stuff doesn't apply to me. You know, let's, let's, let's tuck it into hr and I'LL do my one training every other year. Now, when we think about it, even outside of the organization, but for that individual who wants to be better in their role, that doesn't have anything to do with diversity, equity and inclusion. Can you talk a little bit more about the skills that they could gain from learning more about it?

It's all about self discovery. That's one of the things that I would unpack is self discovery. Is asking yourself like, is this important to me? And if it's important to you, what do you do? You seek places to learn and you know, very similar to somebody downloading an American Negotiation Institute podcast. They could do the same on a commute home on a podcast that relates to diversity, equity, inclusion, they could read books from like some of the most marginalized people in the United States in the world. And what I mean by that, just because we're in the US having a conversation, think about the people who have the least. Their voice is the most quiet in certain situations. And a lot of the times, unfortunately, that's Latinx women and black women. So how can you bring yourself closer to those individuals to learn more about how they approach life and how they approach work and, and that's going to help you become a better communicator and negotiator.

So thus far, Damian, we've done a really great job of addressing the potential benefits of investing in diversity, equity and inclusion training for yourself in order to improve your skills and things like that. What would you say the potential risks are of not investing in yourself in that way?

Yeah, there's a handful of them. And you know, depending on what level you're at, it could be like, let's say you're a CEO and you're a founder. That's going to impact your company's bottom line. Let's say you're a mid level manager, that can impact your team's performance. Let's say you're an individual contributor. If DEI doesn't show up in diversity equity, inclusion doesn't show up in an authentic way that can impact your interactions with your customers. So there's this almost like this macro point of view and a micro point of view that you should look at when thinking about how you want to invest in gaining more knowledge in the diversity, equity and inclusion space.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So for the leaders of the company, you have to focus on the business case. Hey, this studies have demonstrated that this is helpful for businesses. But then for individual contributors, it's realizing, hey, as an individual here, my lack of knowledge here is holding me back from authentically communicating and connecting with my colleagues in the workplace.

Colleagues or customers. Right. Yeah. So, you know, there's almost like a two pronged approach when you look at it that way. And, you know, there's one thing that you touched upon when it talks about, like, like how I invest my time again, I'm going to go back in. Like, don't put the weight on others. Like, put the weight on your own shoulders. And you invest in your learning versus going out and asking others to do the learning for you at their expense or their lived experience, if that makes sense.

Yeah, go deeper into that one, because I think that's an important one to explore.

Yeah. So the easy way is to say, hey, I have a friend, and my friend happens to be from a diverse background, and I'm going to go ask them about their lived experience. Guess what? That's only their lived experience. Right. That one person doesn't speak for everybody. So that's why it's important to go do independent learning, so you can form your own opinions and then come back with a point of view to have a discussion.

Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. A lot of sense. And that's something that. That comes up as something that's particularly burdensome for minorities, people of color, those type of things, because it's. It's exhausting to carry the weight of education as well.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think now is a great time to transition to authenticity in negotiation. And authenticity is a word that's thrown around so often that it's almost like it's lost its meaning. So before we get into what it means to be authentic or how to be authentic, let's actually get a definition. How do you define authenticity in negotiation?

Yeah, that's actually a really, really, really good question. And I don't know that I have, like, the Webster's Dictionary point of view. I'm just going to talk to you about how Damien shows up when it's authentic. You know, from the moment we hopped on the podcast, I'm sure that's one of the things that you notice for me is how I show up. It could be my. The eye contact that I have, it could be the way in which I speak to you, the level of respect that I give you and I'm talking to this is towards you. Right. And there's another part that has to do with me. Like, what's my. What's my posture? Like, you know, what are some of the things that I'm doing to show You. That I am interested in this conversation. Right. Or interested in this interaction and how that shows up. You know, one of the things that I think about that I've seen over the years in my career is the lack of. I think the word I want to use is value. That I've seen individuals from diverse backgrounds come up when it comes their perceived lack of value. Excuse me. When it comes to negotiation. And a lot of the times people are just happy to get an offer. Just say, hey, I got the job. I'm making more money than my parents ever would have thought I made, and I'm 22, 23 years old. Right. Whereas there's a part where you can pivot and you know your value and you're able to say in an authentic way, thank you so much for this offer. I bring X, Y and Z to the table. Is there a way that we can negotiate this offer? And here's the dollar amount that I'm negotiating. So it's not about lack of appreciation. It's more about knowing your value.

This is great. And first of all, let's talk about your definition of authenticity, because it was just an exquisite example of authenticity in action. Because what you said is, I don't know what the Webster's dictionary definition is, but this is what authenticity means to me. This is Damien's definition. And that's exactly what authenticity means. Different things to different people. But believe, for me, it's. It's more of a feeling. I know when I'm. I'm. I'm conversing with other people and interacting with other people in an authentic way. And I know when I'm forcing it. I know when I'm putting on. I know what I'm trying to be somebody else. Be something that I'm not. Right. And so I think when it comes to determining how to be an authentic negotiator, we have to look within ourselves and ask that question. And it's a question that only we can answer for ourselves. So I love that definition. Definition. And when you talk about the negotiation patterns you've seen within people of color, and often women as well, it's something that the statistics and the research demonstrates as well. Oftentimes, people of color aren't negotiating for themselves as hard as they can. And what's interesting is that you might have, let's say, for example, a black lawyer who negotiates really well on behalf of their clients, but then that same black lawyer doesn't do as good of a job advocating for themselves. And it goes back to what you Talked about with value. And so in order to be effective in our negotiations, we have to be authentic. That's number one. We have to also be confident in our skills and in ourselves, and we need to be able to see our value effectively. And so when you're. If you're coaching somebody who is a negotiator or in sales or actually anybody who is negotiating, who is everybody listening to this podcast, and they struggle with those issues of self worth and their own perceived value as it relates to themselves, what advice would you give to them?

Yeah, this actually gets really deep. And it goes back to, like, the early stages of socialization and what you've been exposed to, like, early on as a kid, what do you remember seeing? Like, what are the first images of a person that you know? Like, what is TV showing you? What have you seen in, like, your neighborhood? Like, there's this whole concept behind that. And as you fast forward, when you talk about building value, there's a process that I go through where I am understanding, like, what your inner leader is. So, like, what makes you sit up in your seat and be confident? Right. And you know that you know how you're going to show up. But then there's this other thing that's called a saboteur that beats you up and it tells you that you can't and you won't and you will not be able to do it. So it's like an exercise you have to go through to understand when that's present and which one's showing up greater. And then what you have to realize is, like, what do I have to say no to in order to be successful? And what do I have to say yes to in order to be successful? And then lastly, like, there's like this value set that you build, like, that we would collectively build together in these coaching sessions on what's valuable to you, why is it valuable to you, and how does it show up in your, like, how does it show up every single day that you live? So that's just like a small portion of, like, what has to come to life in order for you to understand your value and advocate for yourself.

There's so much to explore here, and I think you very, very nice negotiation technique. I think you set yourself up for another episode because there is a lot to go in. Because essentially what we realizing is that what seemed like a simple question requires a bit more of a complex answer. It's not just, oh, let me sit down and think about it for three seconds, and then, boop, hey, I have Self worth. Now I see my value. No, this takes a lot of the time. This takes exercise. It takes work. Right? It takes a coach like you. Check out damienright.com for a coach who could walk you through something like this. Sometimes it might actually take some therapy, working with a licensed therapy to figure out what is holding you back mentally. But again, it's going to take a lot of self work. And I was smiling as you were responding because exploring the saboteurs is one of the things that my business coach had had me through. Williams, she's been on the podcast.

Nice.

And it was really helpful because once I actually went through that, that exercise, it made the obvious apparent. And what I mean by that is that I was, I recognized these patterns, but I didn't know just how pernicious it was and how consistent it was. And then once I was able to identify it and give it a name and understand what it was holding back, oh, my goodness, it was, it was so empowering. So, yes, listeners, for those of you who want to learn more about that, definitely reach out to Damien and explore those saboteurs, especially because those are things that we all have to certain extent. To a certain extent. And it can really hold you back. But recognizing what's holding you back can be incredibly liberating, 100%.

And, you know, one of the things that you said that I think is most powerful is like, you have to recognize when your saboteur is present. And then once you recognize it, you know, there's the one thing I say is like, why does. Why does your saboteur deserve to pay rent? Like, why. Why does it deserve to pay a mortgage in your body? You got to kick them out. You got to evict them. You have to evict whoever that is. And it's not easy to do.

Definitely not. But when we have you back on the show, we'll explore how to do that in greater depth. Damian, I really appreciate this. And before you go, can you let the listeners know again about your company? And don't forget to shout out the podcast, too, and how.

Yeah, so. Damianwright.com d a m I O N W R I g h t.com is my actual coaching practice. And you can obviously get in touch with me via LinkedIn. Damien Wright, D A M I O N and open and willing to have exploratory conversations and, and, you know, especially, you know, Kwame, you know, you, you are doing great things here and definitely hope to be able to come back on and share some of the success, success stories that came out of this conversation.

Absolutely. Damien, really appreciate it. Thanks for coming.

Absolutely.

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Will see you in the next episode.

I'll catch you later.