The Shocking Truth About Homelessness: It’s Not What You Think

What if every dollar you're spending to solve homelessness is actually making the problem worse? You've seen it. Billions poured into shelters and services while the crisis grows well meaning nonprofits competing for the same limited resources, and private sector landlords who won't even return your calls because they see housing assistance as nothing but risk. Meet Beth Silverman, executive director and co founder of the Lotus Campaign and one of the world's leading experts in cross sector collaboration for social impact. With her background spanning urban planning, real estate development and public policy, from New York City's Economic Development Corporation to the Urban Land Institute, Beth has cracked the code on impossible partnerships. Under her leadership, Lotus Campaign has housed over 430 individuals at less than $1,000 per person for two consecutive years. By proving that landlords, nonprofits and governments can actually work together in this episode, you'll discover how to align competing incentives across sectors that normally distrust each other, the specific language that turns skeptical landlords into housing partners, and why traditional charity models actually sabotage sustainable solutions. Whether you're leading a non profit, negotiating public private partnerships, or trying to solve complex problems that require unlikely allies, this conversation gives you the tools to turn good intentions into scalable impact. If you're ready to learn how to turn your biggest skeptics into your strongest partners, check out this episode and without further ado, let's jump into the interview. So Beth, before we even get into the nitty gritty about the Lotus Campaign, I think it would be a more interesting place to start to understand how you got into this work.

It's a great question. I've had a nonlinear path like most people in their professions, grew up in the Washington, D.C. suburbs, was always fascinated by neighborhoods, people, real estate, community and economics. And I studied city planning and economic development and real estate and learned that there was this whole world that looked at how the built environment really intersects with how our communities exist and thrive and grow. My path to Lotus Though I was not an expert in homelessness or affordable housing strategies, I had done a lot of real estate development and policy and economic development work and a mentor of mine called me once a week for six months and said we have to do something about homelessness. And you know, I sort of laid my own bed there because I sent him to Los Angeles to be a volunteer expert on an advisory project looking at real estate and homelessness in la. And he came back and just was totally dumbfounded about how we allow this to exist. And so we talked for about six months, once a week, like clockwork. My call from Phil and, you know, at first I was like, no, no, no, no. I'm not the right person for this. And the more we chatted, I was like, wait a second. This is about creating new tools, deploying resources in a different way, and really making a dentist in this issue that oftentimes people think of as social, as a social and a human services issue, but really tackling it through an economic lens. And so that got me super excited, and I just did not overthink it that much and left my job and started Lotus as a team of one and have learned a lot in the last six and a half years about things that I thought I knew a lot about, but I really didn't. Um, and so, in a nutshell, it was sort of taking a bunch of things I was super interested in and applying them to a different topic area. But that, you know, I've always been an anchor of, my work has always been like, how do we contribute to the vibrancy and health of our communities? And so Lotus falls into that. Just not as in. As directly. In a way.

I love this approach because I'm glad we started here, because your background is very diverse. It's not the typical way of getting into this type of work, which I can tell. And you tell me if I'm conceptualizing this the right way. At the beginning, you were using. You were saying to yourself, well, that's why I should not get into this work, because I don't have the background. But it seems as though at some point it clicked and said this might be exactly why I should be getting into this work, because of my unique background.

Yeah, definitely. And I think the other thing, on a human level, everyone has a connection to these issues, whether it's someone in your family that didn't have a network of support to catch them, or someone sort of going through a series of unfortunate events and finding themselves in really dire economic straits. And so I just think sort of the personal connection of whether it's someone in your life supported your family or a family member, or you've watched other people really spiral because of things kind of largely out of their control. And so that also on a human level, and a little more heartstring tugging is a big draw to me as well.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I think the more that people start to understand homelessness, the more humility that we can bring to the conversation. And when you think about your approach to homelessness and how the Lotus campaign does this, what would you say is the core issue that you're trying to solve.

So we're tackling the economic structural drivers, which are lack of affordable housing and opening up access and choice to safe, stable housing in neighborhoods with strong opportunity structures. So what we know from all the data that's out there is if you take people who are very vulnerable or trying to rebuild their lives and stick them on the margins of their communities, not close to transportation, not close to jobs, not close to grocery stores, not close to mixed income communities, they're going to have a much tougher time getting back on their feet. And so we decided early on we were just, we were going to take the economic approach. Right. It's very hard to argue with data, it's very hard to argue with numbers. And we thought we could have a lot more impact if we looked at structural drivers because there are so many great organizations out there really tackling the ongoing support, trauma, informed services, things like that. And we thought, well, what could we do to take this from a different lens? Invite in the real estate sector who's often left out of the conversations about solutions, and then amplify the work of really great social service organizations that don't have a lot of options for their clients who are ready for housing.

Yes. And you're dropping some gems here. And I want to circle back to make sure that people are catching these because the point that you made about how important location is and these structures that are having positive and negative effects on everybody are. I think we need to go a bit deeper there because if you're not well schooled in it or there's no reason to know what these things are and in fact, especially if things are going well for you, there is your, for the sake of your mental health is almost better that you don't know because it would make you sad and not improve your quality of life. So the. I think it'll be good to kind of focus in on this because location, you know, real estate is all about location strategy is all about positioning yourself in the best place. And if you are finding yourself not only in a situation of hardship, but then as well you're pushed to the margins of society, it makes it very difficult for you to, to reintegrate in a meaningful way and get back on your feet. So can you help the audience to understand why this is so challenging and what structures are at play?

Yeah, well, so maybe some of your listeners have heard about zip codes defining the economic and social mobility outcomes of your life. Right. So we have enough data that some very smart economists have looked at that your zip code really matters. And being in mixed income communities really makes a difference. And also I think we take for granted, I call them opportunity structures. That's a real wonky way of just saying walkability, proximity to good schools, proximity to grocery stores, proximity to whether it's buses or if you have subways or light rail in your community, things like that, they make a huge difference in your life. And also in your economic picture. Right. If you have access to public transportation or can walk somewhere or you know, have community amenities nearby, it just makes such a difference. But also structural drivers you mentioned, we know that because of historic segregation, whether it's through zoning, redlining, sort of the makeup of our communities and who was allowed to purchase homes and where has really has really created some long term impacts on economic and social mobility that has largely impacted African American communities. Right. And so we're working against those forces. We're also working against, you know, rising sort of challenges with stagnant wages and rising real estate values. And so your home really is the foundation of everything. And I think sort of we take for granted sometimes that not everyone has the same choices and it really dictates the economic mobility you have the rest of your life.

Yeah. And I feel like it's hard to even appreciate that if you've never been in that situation. And when you think about the power of compound interest, we recognize advantages compound. So if you have access to healthy food, okay, great, you're going to be healthier. That means you're going to be sick less. That means you can put more time and effort into work without having issues. Right. If you are clo, if you have good schools, then you're going to have better outcomes. All of these things compound positively. And if you find yourself in those situations, you just think this is how it normally is or how it should be. And if you can't succeed from that position, then it's really your fault. But then if you think about it from the opposite perspective, those negatives compound as well. So if you don't have a car, then you cannot access healthy local food, then you're not going to be healthy in terms of what it is that you have access to eat and then you can't go to work as frequently because you're not as healthy. Everything compounds. And I realize that there are some communities where it is really, really, really hard to succeed and there are other communities where it's really, really hard to fail. I. You probably don't even know this background, so. So back in the day, in my previous life, I was Doing a lot of civil rights work. I used to work at the Kerwin Institute, so they did opportunity mapping. And when I started to see these opportunity maps, it was so clear because you realize, whoa, in these areas, in certain areas, it's really hard to not even get ahead, but get to baseline and you see how it tracks all the way back from those redlining maps in almost every single city. So for the audience who's not aware with redlining, this is the strategic disinvestment in certain communities. And not surprisingly, back in the 1930s, it was largely based on race. If there were too many black people in a demographic, the banks would say, we're not investing here. But what's scary is that when you take the redlining map from the 1930s and put it an overlay with the opportunity based mapping of today, it matches almost identically. And so this is why the, the structural component of not just homelessness, but a lot of the challenges we see as a society are so important because it's very difficult to outperform your circumstances. Hello, my friends. Before we get back to today's episode, I want to ask you a question. Have you ever wondered how to elevate your team's negotiation game and how you can help the folks on your team have better, difficult conversations? At the American Negotiation Institute, we offer transformative keynotes and workshops tailored to empower professionals with top tier negotiation and conflict resolution skills. Whether it's a keynote for your next event or hands on training for your team, we've got you covered. Don't just negotiate. Master the arts with the American Negotiation Institute. Click the link in the description to find out more. Elevate, negotiate, and succeed. One of the things. Yeah, let's get a little spicy here. Let's get spicy. Beth, you didn't say it. I said it. So I think in this world, when we are people who are advocates from, if we're in social justice, we're dealing with homelessness and things like that, we can see Western society and capitalism as the big bad wolf that makes everything bad. And then as a result, we will essentially say, I refuse to utilize the structures that led to a lot of these challenges in order to solve these challenges. And the only way that I'm going to try to do this is by the generosity of people through either grants, funding or donations, philanthropy, or the government needs to get their stuff together and do what they should have done for decades, centuries. And I can understand sentimentally where that comes from. And I might be wrong on this, but I think one of the things that has led you to such a high degree of success with the Lotus campaign is that you say, hey, listen, well, we are in a capitalist society and the people who are running real estate are the real estate investors. We have to create some kind of nexus between solving this problem and working with the people who actually have the capacity to help us in a substantive way. And so, first of all, mentally and emotionally, how were you able to overcome that potential bias and be willing to work with other people who are not typically involved in the conversation around homelessness?

So I have this belief that the world is this Venn diagram, and ideology and politics are on two circles, but in the middle, there's a lot of value alignment, even with folks that you think you would never agree on something with. Some of our biggest partners, I have completely different ideologies from, and they care about the same exact issues and being part of a solution. And I think we get in a really dangerous trap when we automatically sort of have labels or perceptions of other folks and especially who can be part of the solution. And. And you know, as far as I'm concerned, homelessness is such a monumental challenge. We need everyone on board. And then aren't we better for it if we're working with people we never thought we could work with? I mean, isn't that sort of the goal we're all working towards when we're rising to be our best selves? And so, you know, I've spent a lot of my career in and around real estate developers and investors and thinking about economic development and how you get big projects done in cities with lots of roadblocks. And by and large, sort of these myths about the villains of the real estate and investment industry have not been true. Right? Some of the sort of best problem solvers and entrepreneurs are in the real estate industry because talk about a super high risk, volatile industry with very little certainty that would be real estate. And frankly, we need everyone on board in these solutions. And so I sort of always think about that centerpiece of the Venn diagram is that's where a lot of innovation comes, is if you can operate in that zone and sort of get rid of the noise of what we think we know about other people when we don't know them.

I love this. This is great. And I am hoping that more people can take this approach and this mindset and put it into practice. And really, when it comes down to it, there's a lot of negotiation that has to occur in order to create these types of realistic, tangible, substantive collaborations. So, again, you started this from nothing. So when you started to build this vision, where did you even start?

Well, started by sort of metaphorically knocking on doors and picking up the phone and really canvassing colleagues from across the country, whether they were in property management or investment or development, and asking them why not, right. Knowing there were a lot of no's in the proposition of renting to someone that wouldn't qualify. Because if you're someone at risk or experiencing homelessness, most likely your credit is really bad. You may or may not have a rental housing history and your income is probably pretty low or non existent and you know, employment, things like that. And so just really had an open conversation like what would it take to get you over the hump of going from no to yes? Kind of using a classic sales technique of understanding what someone's concerns were and thinking about, okay, well, is there a way to use economics or financial incentives and guarantees to minimize that risk? So a lot of the basis of our landlord participation program is about using economic guarantees and incentives to minimize risk. And then, you know, for the perception risk that often comes with the idea of who's homeless, there's this perception that, you know, well, what happens once this person's housed? My property managers are not social workers. Who's going to help if something goes wrong? And so we solved for that by really finding high capacity social service organizations that already were working with their clients to find housing, but sort of just didn't have access to market rate landlords or owners. And so solving for that perception risk by saying, well, we've got partners on the ground. You know, they're on the hook too. They're going to visit this resident at least once a month. They're there alongside of us. If something goes wrong, it's not for you to solve. You know, we'll be right there if you give us 30 days to make sure any issue is solved. But really starting from, okay, well what are your biggest concerns? Like, let's just cut to the chase and let's see if we can solve these right. And sometimes, especially early on, a lot of times, some of our housing partners have had really challenging experiences with working with nonprofits in the past. And so I said, well, let's just start with one unit. You know, let's check in in three months. If it's not working for you, we don't have to keep going. You know, we'll, we'll sort of make sure you're made whole. But you know, I think our program really works and would love for you to be a part of it. And, and I think what I'm getting to is treating partners like business partners. Both our social service organizations and our housing partners makes a huge difference. We really try hard not to use the word should. Right? Because if should worked, I mean, if should worked, I don't know, maybe there wouldn't be philanthropy. So, you know, really starting from understanding someone's fears and risks and concerns and hearing them and that sort of for me is that has helped open up conversations to go from no to well, let me hear more.

I love so much about this. I especially from people who are trying to make positive change. The word should should be completely eliminated if we. I heard a great description of the status of the world and it clarified a lot of things for me. They say if you assume everybody is inherently good and will do the right thing, then the state of the world becomes very confusing. But if you just accept humans as they are, as flawed, self interested and, you know, biased, whatever it happens to be, then the world makes a lot more sense because it reflects what's already inside of people. And so when we are saying, hey, you should do this, just mobilizing guilt and shame to get people to do something that they don't want to do, it is an inherently anti psychological approach to persuasion, you know, and it doesn't work. And on top of it, the most likely, the person who's trying to create the positive change simply does not have the political capital, power or authority to make unilateral changes. So you're sitting here in a position with little to no leverage, finger wagging at somebody who has all the power and leverage. That's not a persuasive approach. It's not psychologically sound, not strategically sound. And so whether or not we feel like we should, we have to recognize that that might be persuasive to us, but it probably won't be persuasive to the other side. And let me just break this down for the listeners too, because you started off by making sure you're aligning the interests of the every party that's involved and you've approached it from a multifaceted approach. So it's the person who is in need of housing, the person who can provide the housing, the social service workers and organizations that want to connect with people who have housing. And so you're able to figure out those interests. But you can't just assume, you know, what those interests are. You have to take the time to have the conversation and ask and then understanding what those risks are. And instead of simply saying, hey, those risks aren't real, which is another strategy that is ineffective and not psychologically sound that I hear used all the time, instead of saying okay, instead of saying it's not real, just saying, yes, there are real risks. I understand where you're coming from, and now I will create a tangible solution to address those risks and mitigate those risks. So you're talking about solving the problems, meeting interest, but also addressing risks. And then the last part, the treating him, treating people as business partners, I think is one of the ultimate signs of respect too. Because you're saying, hey, I am here, not because I'm begging, I'm here because I actually have value that you did not see. And you also have value and needs that I can help you with. So let's work together on this. And I think ultimately not only is that more persuasive and psychologically sound, but it also puts you at a position where you are meeting the person as an equal. Because even if you are successful in persuading somebody using finger wagging and shoulding on them, there's still a dynamic in the relationship that still makes you kind of less than because the other side does not feel as though you brought anything of value to them to the table. Right. And so I love how practical this approach is because I've seen so many good people and good organizations around the country approaching it in a different way that's more heart centered, but does not connect to the business minds of the people they need to persuade.

Yeah, like I said, I wish should worked, but it doesn't. Yeah. And honestly, you know, there is a role for the private real estate and investment sector to play. And I think honestly they haven't been invited to the brainstorming table that much on these big issues when they're the experts in how you manage properties, invest in properties, things like that. And so, you know, we often joke like, Lotus is so radically simple, but it's so radical that people are confused because why wouldn't we have done this already? And I take that as the ultimate compliment.

It is, it is. And I think this is a great opportunity to transition to myth busting as well, because I know that's one of the barriers that people face when they are trying to address homelessness. Everybody has an opinion on homelessness and everybody feels like there's, they're an expert in it. And I think it's one of the best examples of the Dunning Kruger effect where it's like the less you know about something, the more Confident you in. You are in what you do not know about it. Right. So it's like the people with the least information are often the most confident when it comes to these significant issues. So what are some of your favorite myths or misperceptions that kind of make it difficult for you to do what you want to do?

Well, I think the one that I just have to chuckle at is everyone thinks people are bused into their community from California or Florida, which is a huge myth. You know, data really says that around 80% of people experiencing homelessness are from the community that they're in. And, you know, I think there's a lot of, you know, it's pretty dangerous myth that this is a personal choice or the result of personal failings. But we know that the top drivers today are lack of affordable housing, unemployment, low wages, one economic emergency in a family. And I think sort of shifting the narrative that this is actually much more about structural drivers is helpful in understanding what are the solutions out there that can actually make a dent. I mean, it's pretty terrifying. Homelessness went up between 2023 and 2024 by 18%. So we're now at over 770,000 people experiencing homelessness in America. A lot of social science researchers think that's off by a multiple of three because there are so many folks that you don't see who are either sleeping on someone's couch or a car or in a really, really temporary living situation. So sort of, I always think in general, if you can't name the actual problem and identify it and say it out loud, you really don't have a shot at solving it. So with all these myths that are out there, I'm like, let's cut the noise. Let's name the actual problem so we can get to solving it and making our communities stronger.

I appreciate this. It's so important because, again, it gives us a lot more empathy and compassion and helps us to approach it with the necessary humility to recognize just how close more people than we would like to admit are from experiencing homelessness. And I want to make this very tangible, too, because you mentioned it could be one economic emergency. I want people to understand how close we are. I don't have all of the statistics. Maybe you could sprinkle in a few of these. But I understand, though, that economically most people are living in some version of paycheck to paycheck, and they might have one, maybe three months in reserve before they are unable to pay for housing, for example, amongst other things. And we can see A situation where due to no fault of your own youth, lose your job, you could just get laid off. The job might fail, like the company itself might fail. And now you have to go to. To try to find a job in a very competitive market. And we also know it takes what, like 45 to 90 days to. To get in someplace if you, if they choose you. Right. And so it, it's a very long period of time. And so when you see it from that perspective, you can say, oh, wow, there are a lot of people who are living very close and it is not their fault. They're trying their best. And housing more and more expensive in, in all of this, which just compounds because this was already a challenge before, but housing prices just keep on going up, which of course is great for homeowners, but people who weren't in a position to take advantage of home ownership, now they are again hit and put in a more vulnerable position.

Yeah. The one economic lesson that I think really applies here is supply and demand. So the estimates are we're anywhere from 2 to 7 million units under supplied of housing units in this country. So if you think about housing like a bag of sugar, and you only have three bags of sugar, but 10 people need sugar, what happens to the price and value of that bag of sugar? Goes up. Right. It's a function of demand. So we have a supply issue, a huge supply issue, but we also have other drivers contributing too. But what happens. I'm going to use an analogy from a professor at the University of Washington who wrote this great book called Homelessness as a Housing Problem, and he likens it to a game of musical chairs. If you only have seven chairs, 12 people, one person has a broken leg and is on crutches. One person got there five minutes late because they couldn't get a ride. Right. Who's going to get the chairs? It's the people with the most resources, and the folks that aren't going to get to the chairs are the most vulnerable. And I thought that was a pretty excellent metaphor to think about. Housing affordability and housing supply.

Wow. So there just simply aren't enough homes or places for people to live. So. So hypothetically. And I could be radically wrong. Simone, edit this out if I am. So hypothetically, there could be a situation where, let's say people are shaming people who are experiencing homelessness. They're saying, you should have done this, you should have done that. If you didn't do this, you wouldn't be in this situation blaming the victim. In the situation, there could be a reality where let's say all of those people who are being blamed did all of the quote, right things according to the judgmental humans. There will still be people who don't have houses, who don't, who are experiencing homelessness simply because there aren't enough places for people to live. Regardless of what decisions you make.

Yes.

Wow. So what, how do we, what do we do?

Right, I mean a big question, right, for the real estate industry, affordable housing developers, communities. I mean, one of the solutions is, yes, build more housing. Housing, I would say is always part of the solution, but it is not the only solution, right? So a lot of times people will use this expression, we can't build our way out of this, but we do need to increase our supply and look at where supply is squeezed. A lot of middle income housing is quickly becoming endangered species as a real estate product. So yes, creating housing, creating solutions that bring the cost of construction down and the timeline for building down. Right, that's a great innovative way to get more housing there. But I think it's also looking at economic drivers too. And when we put it in these terms, it feels like this big monumental challenge that we're never going to tackle. But I really think it's solvable. I mean, we've seen with lotus in our six and a half years, we've had a 96% success rate and we're now in two cities. And what that means is 96% of people remain housed at the end of their first lease, which sort of bucks all these myths that, well, you know, if you put someone in housing, they're not going to be able to stay. We really think it's housing support, ongoing support and, and time, time to breathe, time to get back on your feet, time to get a full time job, things like that. But so, you know, I just wanted to throw that in because I do think there are things out there that are really working and that communities across the country can replicate. But you know, building housing does matter. Thinking through new strategies of how we deliver housing matters. And you know, some of that comes against people that don't want more development or housing in their communities. So what's the negotiation tactic there? Right? How do you convince people that don't want any change or say, well, I've been here forever and I don't want any sort of new communities moving in, things like that. I mean that is something we, we try to tackle too, is, it's, this is the report, this is your health report card of your community.

And let's talk about that point. The, the not in my backyard phenomenon, or what they would say is nimbyism, right? So when you run into these challenges where there are people who say, hey, listen, I'm in this nice idyllic community, everything is nice, everybody here is good. And then now you want to bring in low income housing, and now I am terrified. And the. I think that's, that is a very charitable description. But let's roll with it. How, in your experience, how have advocates for social change and, and people who are trying to fight homelessness, how have they worked to overcome those perceptions in the people who are within the communities?

Well, you, you nailed something in your description there. Underneath the I don't want this. I don't want this. Anything anywhere near where I live is fear, right? It's this fear that I'm not sure people are even conscious of. I've always thought from the beginning of my career this was a fear of poverty and the belief that if you live near it, you could catch it. And I think that's just too hard for some people to grasp. But you know, if you look at sort of the business case of housing, there is no data anywhere that says building affordable housing takes down your property value or takes down any sort of economic indicators. And in, in reality it actually increases the value. Right. I also think don't let perfection be the enemy of the good. The most thriving communities have economic socioeconomic diversity. If you look at all the places people love to be, New York City, Atlanta, right. Some of these bigger cities, and there are smaller communities too, they have a rich socioeconomic diversity. And personally, I want people that work in schools or in the grocery store or firefighters or police officers, officers to be able to live in the community they serve. Right? That just in terms of community connections and community health, that's a huge indicator of those things. And I think sort of my tools with that are what's underneath the fear? Don't let perfection be the enemy of the good. And if you need to throw out data about the economic value of socioeconomic diversity, drop that data on folks and, you know, let people be wrong and be changed down the line. Not, not everyone is going to be able to sort of listen to those arguments and get on board. But I, I think sometimes the proof comes later and you know, an argument sometimes people use. I don't know if this is effective. Do you want your kids to be able to live in the community that you live in?

Hmm, that's a good one. That's a good one. Because we are seeing now with this new generation. They're the only generation in American history that's not expected to do better than their. The people who came before. And that's pretty scary. And I did not know that there was actually a what's in it for me type of argument that could be made where the more affordable housing could actually uplift the community. I think that needs to be pushed a little bit more. But then also, when it comes to the fear part, I think a lot of it is the fear of different. The fear of others. There are a lot of assumptions about the people who will be using affordable housing. And it's like, okay, well, I need to protect the sanctity of our neighborhood, or is there going to be increased crime? And all of these types of fears that are a lot of times, again, not substantiated by the data? And then the other thing, I want to make sure that we really delineate what we mean here when we say live where you serve. Because essentially what we're realizing is that within communities, the communities can become so expensive that a lot of the most vital members of the community can't even afford to live there. So we're talking teachers, firefighters, police officers, social service workers, whatever it happens to be, they can't even afford to be there. And so you have people who have to live outside of the community in order to serve the community, but they don't have the community knowledge in order to serve at a high level. And so there are so many things that are compounding these issues and behind these. But I think the more we can understand them, the more we can strategically persuade around them, because we have to be able to understand what the challenge is with clarity. And then once we get that clarity now, we can make our message a lot more precise.

Absolutely.

We received a letter from a listener who's dealing with a tough situation, and I think it's one that a lot of people can relate to. Ashley from our team is going to read the letter for us, and then you and I will break it down together. And also, by the way, if you. Yes, you, listener, I'm talking to you. If you're ever in a tricky situation or have a workplace dilemma or just have a story you want to share with us, we'd love to hear from you. You can send your story to our producer, Simone, spelled like Simon@negotiateanything.com so that's s imonnegotiate anything.com because we're always looking for real situations to dive into. All right, let's get into it.

Hi Beth. I work at a nonprofit that's trying to launch a housing initiative. We have donors who are excited, a board that's bought in, and even some city leaders who want to support us. But here's the problem. We've never worked with private landlords before and honestly, we're straight struggling. Most won't return our calls. Some say our clients are too risky and the ones who do engage want rent guarantees we can't afford. We keep running into walls. How do you convince people from the private sector, especially landlords, that this is worth their time and trust? How do you build those relationships from scratch when you don't have a track record yet? What would you do if you were in our shoes?

Well, that is a great question. I would first see if you can sit down with anyone that's given you a no or shut the door on you and try to understand why and see where the holes might be in your approach or model. You know, I think designing your program to give private landlords an easy way to say yes should be the goal. And so sort of tweaking things if what resources and tools you have in your program maybe aren't achieving what you want them to. I think also having your governance structure have representatives from the private sector gives you credibility and resources to talk to about sort of if you're finding you're getting a lot of no's to to have a, you know, your own personal advisor that's part of your governance to give you feedback. And I again, I think treating potential private sector landlords as business partners is the approach to make sure you get, you know, an open conversation. Sorry about that. So I would just say, you know, treatment. Treat your potential private sector landlords as business partners, but understand why they're saying no and sort of ask for feedback. If you're new and you don't have proof of concept or impact just yet, really understanding sort of what their hesitations are are going to help you design how you approach future partners and your own program to be successful.

This is great advice. It's almost like you've done this before. You know, I don't know, it's I. A couple things I want to double click on here too. Talking to the people who have rejected you, who have given you a no is so powerful and a key part of being able to do that is making it clear that you are no longer selling. So you say, hey, listen, I respect that you said no, I'm not going to try to push you, but if you wouldn't mind if you could take just five minutes and explain what the hesitation is that would help me as I go on and try to continue to do this work. Because if somebody thinks that you're still trying to sell them, then they have all of this resistance. But if somebody truly feels like you are not trying to push them anymore, now that's when they're a lot more vulnerable. And what's really interesting, and I don't just mean vulnerable in terms of susceptible like haha, I got you, but kind of. But they're also more willing to be vulnerable with the information. And so they'll tell you the information because what can happen, especially in the business world, I've seen people do this, I've done this before where you say okay, could you help me understand what, what led to this barrier? Because that can help me in other situations. And then they explained what the barrier is and I said okay, all right. And then I summer what they summarize what they say and I say, I apologize, I did a poor job of explaining because the, the reality is X, Y and Z. And that speaks to what you were just describing. And I, I didn't articulate that well. And then they say oh really? That I did not know that. And now we have rekindled the conversation organically so by saying, hey, listen, I'm, I'm not trying to push you anymore, just wants to some information. You'll be shocked at how much information you get. And even if they don't say yes now you have that information that you can utilize with somebody else. And I love the idea of bringing somebody from the private sector into the organization as well. Because we think about the importance of representation and how much that matters. It matters in other directions as well. Because you will see, be seen as more credible and somebody who gets it. If somebody within the private sector is within the company too. And they can help us to point out our own blind spots and our own biases that are holding us back that we can't see. So I really love this answer and I especially love the fact that it is practical and doable.

Yeah. A mentor once told me, if this is helpful, if someone says no, it doesn't necessarily mean no. It means the way you approach them or your pitch just wasn't good enough.

That's good. That's really good. That's really good. And I, in addition to it being objectively true, it is also the fact that it shifts your mindset as well. Because a no isn't defeat. Rejection doesn't mean the end of it, you say, all right, cool. I need to sharpen the sword. I need to improve. I need to adjust. And not just is it great advice strategically, but also in terms of our mentality, it helps us to be a little bit more relentless in our pursuit and not give up as easily. So I love that, that quote. It's great. Awesome. Well, bet this has been fantastic. I really appreciate you coming on. And for those listeners who want to learn more about you, about the Lotus campaign and how they can support, what's the best way to connect?

Our website is Great Lotus campaign. Org. We're on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook. We do a lot of education and myth busting on those social media channels and also signing up for our newsletter. We do not spam you. We send out a newsletter about once a month. So those are the best ways. And, you know, we, you know, just really put a lot of care into what we're putting out there in terms of messages and communication. So you all get spammed. Hopefully you'll learn something on our social media channels. And. And yeah, those are the best, best ways.

Perfect. Awesome bet. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Really appreciate it.

Thank you so much. This was great. This was awesome.

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