This Is Why People Trust You (Or Don’t) — Backed by Real Stories

Sean, thanks for joining us today, man.

I'm excited to be here.

We are excited to have you, my friend. So how would you get us started? By telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do.

Absolutely, man. I'm Sean Anthony. I'm just a kid from a small town, Rocky Mountain, North Carolina, that figured out another way. And I found what my gift was at a very early age and how to connect the right people together. And, you know, I later went on to go to college like we all think about doing, but creating a business. And that business being popromax, man. And excited to talk to everyone today exactly. About what we do and how we do it and how we've been specializing in podcast tours and talent management.

I love that, man. And kudos to you and your success with the business that you built the. Not just the business, but also the burgeoning media empire with the podcast growing as well. And I actually want to kind of take a minor detour before we go into this, but I want to really give you an opportunity to reveal the power of what you just said, because it's easy for it to go over people's head, because a lot of times in the business world, we talk about how important it is to connect with other people, network your network is your net worth, et cetera, et cetera. But you had a really interesting spin with the way he described it, because you're not just about connecting people, you're about connecting people to other people and playing that middleman in a relationship. So you figured that out early. Can you tell us what the benefit of just approaching relationships that way is?

Oh, man. Is when you're approaching a relationship from the service and gratitude to others, there's only gain, you know, there's only going to be gain. You're going to have people who may not recognize where that gain came from. Right. So some people may not recognize it as a gift. Some people may not understand that, you know, had I never met this person, I would have never been able to do this. You know, half of pretty much all of us on this planet, even our moms and dads, may have even been introduced to each other from another person. But I think when you're able to quantify that and turn that into a value add and able to turn it into dollars and revenue, I think that's where it gets really exciting.

You know what? You're absolutely right. That's how I met Whitney. A friend connected us, you know, So I guess, hey, look, my family is a testament to that point. You Just made. But you're absolutely right, too, because especially when you do it with the right spirit, you're just trying to help other people win. And the reciprocity is people are gonna pay that back to you. They're gonna help to connect you with other people. So I just wanted to highlight that, Sean. Cause I think that's a really smart strategy that not enough people pay attention to.

Yeah. I'll tell you this. Sometimes the strategies that end up being the best strategy for you, someone else has given it to you, you just never received it in the right way. You know, for me, the way I received it and the way I caught onto it is that I also was very good at the jobs that I had. So I had learned a skill set. I had to get. Sit down. You know, this. This time of year, there are a lot of people who are gonna have those job reviews. Well, the person on the. That table, they're literally getting paid to tell you what you're good at. And if you pay attention to what they're saying, you might realize that, yo, that might be the gift. And for me, you know, I was getting all these exceed expectations. I was promoted six times in four years. I had a job that, you know, the boss sat me down and he said, hey, listen, I'm gonna give you an exceed expectations this time. And I was like, well, dang, that's gonna come with a nice, you know, nice little something. And I was like, where's that coming from? He said, your ability to connect with others, your ability to get people centered around a certain goal or ideal and bring them together is unique. I've never seen anything like it. I said, you know what? I'm doing that for this company. This company's making millions. Why not do it for myself? You know, prior to being an entrepreneur, you know, I was a brand manager of companies we all shop at. I was a brand manager of Target. I was a brand manager of Belk. I was a brand manager of Macy's. You know, I had all these skill sets where I was making them money. And now I decided to turn the switch on for myself.

Man, I love it. And listen, when we have somebody in front of us who consistently exceeds expectations when it comes to communication and connection, we have to actually dig into this. Because when we talk about relationship building and everything, we almost assume that there is a connection or the ability to create a connection. And I think that leads us to start relationships and conversations at the wrong place, because we haven't set that foundation of true connection. So for you when you think about the through line of everything that you've done from being a brand manager, and I know you have some background doing sales as well, and now as an entrepreneur, I know you have background and experience doing damn near anything in a business. That's what it takes to run a company, an entrepreneur. So when you think about the through line, for you, how is it that you build this skill to create true connections with other people?

Well, you got to be a genuine and authentic person. They're the only ones that want to make it. They're the only ones that's going to last. You also have to, you know, there's a book called the, you know, four Agreements. I think a lot of people probably pay attention to them, but one of the agreements to me that, that really stand out is don't make assumptions. You know, a lot of times when we are in a conflict or we are trying to navigate a conversation, we are already making assumptions on why this person is thinking the way they're think. And the way I approach relationships is I approach it from both angles. If I was them, what would I be thinking? Even from the point where if anyone were to make a comment or say something I think about, okay, what put them in that mind frame to feel like that was how they should be thinking? And I think that's how you gotta look at this. When you really go deep into like navigating relationships, navigating what's the right, the best thing? And you know, another, another agreement, if you haven't read that book, is be impeccable with your word. When people realize that even in deals that you're making, whether it is navigating through a media buy deal or navigating a personal appearance fee, being transparent and being impeccable, saying, hey, look, this is the amount that's on the table. This is if we can do this or not, that is going to go a long way in life, but also in business.

You're absolutely right. And it seems like it's something that's so easy to do, but it's something that people overlook this, right? Because being genuine, being authentic, being transparent, I think those are all ideals and values that people would say, yes, I believe in this, I aspire to be this. And then when you gave that example too, when you said, if you try not to assume and you put yourself in the other person's shoes to ask yourself not just what are they thinking, but also how are they feeling about this? And as we're listening to this, I know people are saying, yeah, I know that, but they don't do it. Or sometimes they think they do it, but they're not doing it well. So when it comes to people truly shedding their assumptions, being genuine, being transparent, what actually holds them back from living those ideals in difficult conversations in the heat of the moment?

Oh, it's by far the insecurities. If you're going to withhold information, if you're going to, you know, think twice before you say something in a certain aspect because you're in fear or feel as if it may make you look a certain way, that's a lot of insecurities. You know, when you can put it all out on the table and be transparent, there ain't nothing to be afraid of. I think that that's the biggest, biggest thing I would say, listening to that. When I think someone who's struggling with that they personally have, it might be, depending on what business that they're actually doing, may some of their insecurities are, you know, mistakes they've made in the past and they don't want to see the next person make. So I think that that would be probably the best way to really look at that.

I agree, man. And it feels, I know for a lot of people it's like, man, damn, we're coming back to insecurities. Thought I was over that in my, like 20s and early 30s. No, you never, like, there is always something there. And I think it's a really strong move to make to go through this self negotiation to figure out what it is that's driving you to do or not do certain things. So if you aspire to be genuine and authentic, you can feel when you are not being genuine and you're being inauthentic. And the question is why? What's holding us back? A lot of times it's a fear of abandonment in a relationship. It's a fear of rejection. For whatever reason, we don't feel comfortable and secure enough in ourselves to be ourselves because we're afraid of the consequences of that. Authenticity and transparency. And so when you think about your journey and how you were able to put this into practice at the highest level with some of the biggest companies and now in your own company, how was it that you were able to overcome those insecurities and be authentic, transparent and genuine, even when there might be little voices in your head telling you not to do it?

Yeah, you gotta lose something. The people who struggle with that, they haven't lost anything. You gotta lose something. Losing something is how you build character. Right? You can really learn from your lessons, you were gonna build a lot of character. And I very first took the leap for entrepreneurship. I turned podcasting into a six figure side hustle while creating schools over now with the podcast. And when I turned into a six figure side hustle, I able to then leave that job. And in 2021, when I left that job, I left that job strictly to just teach the art of podcasting, you know, building, you know, communities from clubhouse. I had over 42,000 members in clubhouse in a club. I created, you know, just building communities, talking podcasting, speaking on stages. But what I found myself doing very early, when the word got out that, hey, listen, you know, I'm, I'm about to leap and better myself, I started brand managing the talent that I was working with, you know, so I brand managed some of the biggest names, you know, whether, you know, they're the number one course creators on teachable, like Terry Ijeoma, whether they're New York best selling authors, or whether they're authors who are accelerating in their space like Rachel Rogers. There's so many different people that now, you know, from a talent perspective, I got the ability now to represent talents like Matthew Knowles, the father, the Beyonce and Solange, the Polites who are on, you know, Hulu and A and E with a hit show that's all about real estate. You're not managing so many different people. I've learned so much, but I also have lost enough to be transparent about whatever situation that's happening and whatever thing we're going through. And I think that's, that's how you really beat having those feelings. You have to really learn for something that you really have valued or you have to have seen the value you have in yourself to learn how to quantify that. I think that's the key.

It's powerful and it's also scary. I think we have to address that part too, Sean. Right, because we. What we're. Essentially what you're saying is that you have to be willing to lose something. Something has to be at st. And it takes a really strong person to be willing to walk through that fire and put themselves in a vulnerable position without fearing that vulnerability in the moment. And I think there are a lot of different ways to get there, and you've outlined a few of them too. And I think looking at your example too, I'm assuming, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I'm assuming having the full time job and then having a side hustle in podcasting that produces six figures, this is sentenced to. I've never even heard said Sean, like, as I was saying that, I was like, that can't be. That can't be a real thing because it's so hard to do. But you did it right. But having that side hustle that was producing income and the full time job, it gives you more flexibility because you are strong in yourself. You found a way to create a firm foundation. And I think a lot of times people struggle in tough conversations because they haven't figured out what their plan B would be. And they haven't really proven to themselves just through strategy or just visualization what survivability would look like if they don't get everything that they want in this conversation. So can you speak a little bit to the power of having a firm foundation before we even get into these tough conversations?

Oh, absolutely, man. You know, you also got to not only just have a firm foundation, I think you got to figure out how to set up shop. And I give you an example of that, you know, podcast that became a six figure side hustle. You know, it was so scary and so crazy where I really started to understand the value I had. I was only given it one day a week. You know, my podcast schools over now where I've sat down with the ad, my list to Seth, God is the Amy Porterfields, all these amazing. I only had one day a week to record it and I would record it and I would edit it myself and I would post it and I would upload it where it would be on auto and I would do it Thursday. I spent the entire Thursday doing it and then Friday it'd go out. So my episode was so consistent and doing this way. And I started to see the revenue that was happening, whether it was, you know, courses I created or whether it was ebooks that I created. I turned myself into my own product. I didn't go to a brand, I didn't go to a sponsor. You know, these things were even unheard of when I very first started the podcasting space to the level that they're at now. So I saw this value in me and then I realized, hey, I also have a value in the job. I have a value in how far I got in that job where I had all these benefits. And I started to look at things like housing and taxes and shout out to my tax guy. My tax guy was the first person to let me know. It was a six figure side hustle. But I paid attention to also what it would take for me to go to the next level and at the time I was thinking about homes, you know, and real estate. And I said, you know what, I got this corporate job, I got this status on paper. You know, I just became a six week side hustle with the podcast, but I hadn't turned it into an LLC for over two years. You know, you needed two years of tax records. So there was times where the hardest part was being in those boardrooms or being in those meetings and making those decisions. In the back of my mind, I'm like, you guys, this is funny because Chang is happening while I'm sitting in this meeting, you know, but, you know, I look back at those times I paid attention to, if I'm going to utilize this job, let's go ahead and get what we need to get. And that was how I was able to get, you know, the very first home that, you know, we ever had and utilize the benefits of those so that I didn't have to be, you know, in the golden handcuffs of a job. You know, a lot of people have side hustles, and I know this is a lot, but I want you to digest this. A lot of people have side hustles. They are really doing amazing things with, but they haven't been illegal business long enough to go get some of the things that their business financially could go get, you know, And I think, how do you wait in those times? And I think that's the key.

That's powerful. I'll tell you, man, as, as a lawyer, my, my lawyer senses were tingling. I was getting nervous just hearing, wait, what you doing without an llc? My goodness. But this is the thing, like, you're, you're absolutely right. Sometimes you can get the fundamentals of the business down in terms of the cash flow before you get the fundamentals of the business down legally. But then also recognizing the consequences, which goes into the entire conversation we're having about creating that firm foundation. And so it's powerful when you. But knowledge is power, right? Because you don't know what, you don't know when you're going into it. And once you get that idea, that understanding of what's required now you have that foundation where you can negotiate for more with a little bit more swag. Say, because there's a difference between, like having power in negotiation and being empowered as a negotiator. Because a lot of times people would say, all right, well, listen, I'm a small, small entrepreneur, I just started some things and they have all the power, they have all the authority. I'm just going to get rolled and Then we go in with this self fulfilling prophecy and then it just becomes true because that's our mindset. But if we say no, no, no, no, no. I'm actually going to take some time and I'm going to think about how I add value to people. I might need to ask other add value because sometimes we're so familiar with our brilliance that we don't recognize the value that we produce to other people because it just comes so naturally. So figuring out what it is that we do to add value to, taking the time to come up with some kind of backup plan. So all your eggs are not all in this basket. All of those things give you a lot more confidence, a lot more swag in the negotiation because you can genuinely look the other person in the eye and know within yourself, if they say yes, I'm in a great position. If they say no, I'm in a great position. And that helps you to feel so much more powerful even if you don't have what would be considered a traditional source of power on your side 100%. Yeah, man, that is great question here because I want to make sure that we can talk about the value of your company too, because I know we were chatting before. There are a lot of civilians who are not in the podcasting space who might not realize how beneficial being a guest on a podcast could potentially be and then how that could position them persuasively for their next negotiation. So I just want you to take a moment and set out the mechanics of podcast guesting and how that helps with your personal brand. And then we'll talk about how the personal brand helps with your negotiation. Hello my friends. Before we get back to today's episode, I want to ask you a question. Have you ever wondered how to elevate your team's negotiation game and how you can help the folks on your team have better, difficult conversations? At the American Negotiation Institute, we offer transformative keynotes and workshops tailored to empower professionals with top tier negotiation and conflict resolution skills. Whether it's a keynote for your next event or hands on training for your team, we've got you covered. Don't just negotiate. Master the art with the American Negotiation Institute. Click the link in the description to find out more. Elevate, negotiate and succeed.

Yeah, I mean, well, podcasting by far. If you want to accelerate in your space and be the authority and space and be singing to as a go to you have to be sitting in somebody's chair or even your own chair virtually to explain the value of your services. And what you have to offer. And I think podcasting just accelerates that when it's strategically done. And, you know, when I became, you know, not only just someone who took the leap of entrepreneurship, I had the honor of managing closely some of the world's best people that we could think of that are in thought leadership and in entrepreneurship. And I paid attention to where the money was coming from. You know, I paid attention to what was happening. And the strategic podcast placements of placing a client on certain shows was making them millions. And in fact, it was even making podcasts host, you know, over 400 thousands of dollars within the first 30 days. And I thought about, okay, wow, this is it. This is really the jackpot, the sweet spot. And, and having the ability to be in the podcasting space as long as I've had to build so many amazing relationships, I've also been able to see a lot of these guys go off to be PODC host. And I have the ability to then say, you know what? How do we do this for everybody? And that's where we, we created, you know, Pod Pro Max, which allows for us to really focus on, you know, one of our pillars and cores is the podcast tour. So I seen amazing things happen through just having talent, you know, speak on certain podcasts. You know, I give you a client success story just for something to think about here, you know, we have the honor of managing Ms. Skittles, you know, when she did a podcast with, you know, Sarah Chan, which is also with the HubSpot Media Network network, but she did a podcast in person that turned to an in person speaking opportunity in front of a room full of investors that then turned to her being invited to Paris at a roundtable with the people who actually had the money. You know, this is so many just valuable things happening once someone gets introduced to someone else and they have a podcast opportunity. So I'm a huge, huge advocate for that.

And that's a great example, Sean, when we think about this, because you see, it starts off, off with the podcast, but it doesn't end there. Like, that's the start of the conversation. And I know for me, with my career, with trainings and keynotes, consulting and all that stuff, the podcast was a major source of my personal credibility because I got into the industry pretty young. And so being able to show that I know what I'm talking about by being a podcast host on my own show, but then also being a guest on all of these different shows, it's over 150 other shows I've done. And it's incredible the reach that you can get when you do this, this. And again, you don't need to be a podcaster or be some kind of thought leader in order to do this. There are services like yours who can put you on the right show to get you the right results. And I want people to also start to think strategically about this, because whether it's through podcasting, LinkedIn, social media, whatever it happens to be, you start off the persuasive process when somebody becomes aware of your existence. And you want more people to become aware of your existence and your expertise, even if they don't know you. And so you recognize that what you're doing is you're creating this digital avatar of yourself that goes around and does work for you while you're not here. And it's incredible because people will believe you and see you as credible, not necessarily because of what you say during the conversation, but because of the research that they've done on you before the conversation.

Oh, man. This is a home run for one of the main reasons why we're such a huge advocate of doing podcasting. We're such a huge advocate of having a podcast tour. You know, Google talks about, about the 711 4, and I'm not sure if you're familiar with it. And the 7114 is a method that we talk about all the time when we're talking to new potential people to work with. And that is, do you have seven hours of content right now? Do you have 11 different touch points? Meaning can someone find you on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, wherever that may be? And are you available in four different locations? Are they available to watch you do a keynote speak? Are they available to sit down and hear you at a conference? Right. All these different things. And we look at 711 4, and this is when a customer very first comes across you as a brand. And podcasting and having your digital media avatar on shows gives you your own 7114 in terms of building the content that allows for someone to get familiar and comfortable with you, to want to even buy anything. You know, one of the biggest downfalls I see in entrepreneurship, and I'm pretty sure we could agree on this, is how fast we meet people, how fast they sell to us, versus, you know, being able to, like, hey, let me discover you a little bit. Let me. Let me shop around and notice, oh, oh, you actually have that services, and you're absolutely the person I want to buy from. I think, you know, I think that's. That's a Huge, huge key point for us.

Yeah, 100%. The that that quick sell does not work. It does not. It does not work. In most cases. It's very off putting too. But like you said, if you can think about that, building that relationship and starting it sooner, having those multiple points of contact, and I love this 7, 11, 4 rule, that's brilliant. I'm going to attribute it to you because you're the person who told me so this is Sean Anthony's role. He created. I think it's great and it makes it objective because we could actually say, all right, well, you know, I listened to this podcast and Sean just said I should just do a bunch of podcasts. I don't know. But now you can actually say no. Seven hours is what we want to get. Banked up. 11 different touch points, four different locations for availability. It makes it more objective. And it doesn't seem like it's such an insurmountable, just task to even get started.

Not at all. You know, to me, it's the biggest. Like if this was a game of like, like Mythbusters or a game of like, hey, a lot of people, they sat down and thought about it. A lot of the things that we enjoy buying is not because it's like this unique product that is something that is like, like from Apple itself. It's because we genuinely like, like the places or the people that we're shopping with. And that's because they've built, they've banked almost, you know, this credibility with us. And, and that's what podcasting and podcast tours does.

I agree 100% and I think it'll be a good place for us to about just circling back to that word you said at the beginning and you said it again now. Genuinely, genuinely connecting with people. And it's so funny because the through line is the same no matter what the medium is. So if you're trying to connect with people, you're genuinely connecting authentically, trying to add value. And even if you're on this podcast, what you're doing here, even though we're talking to each other, you're still talking to the audience, genuinely connecting and offering value. And I think this is really important because we talked about how sometimes people will just meet you and immediately start selling you. Podcast guests can do the exact same thing too, and they miss out because of that. So now I want you to put your coaching hat on. Let's say somebody from the audience says, hey, listen, okay, I want to do this, Sean, I'm on board now. I want to build my brand in this type of way and I want to make sure that I'm being authentic and adding value. But I want to let them know about my product or services, but I don't want to seem salesy or sell too hard too soon. So now let's say they've bought in and they're starting to build their brand. What are the things that you really want them to convey when they're on these podcast tours?

Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, the best strategies I ever paid attention to. When I look about strategies and I think about the strategists and I think about people I work with, they look at sales, like seasons. I remember, you know, being with some of the best of the best and at like the weirdest times of the, of the day, it could be like one o' clock in the morning. Their brains are just wired different and they, they would immediately go into a mode of looking at their journal, looking at the things they were planning, and they would literally say, well, this month is all about nurturing. You know, a lot of people never do. And I was like, oh, and what really made my antennas go up is that I was literally working with someone that I saw doing millions a year. I said, if they have the ability to know that they're going to put an entire month just on nurturing, how could you ever compete with them? You know, they're. How would you ever compete with them? Because the moment they got anything to sell, you're like, oh, you going, of course we buying that from you. You know, I always thought that was so unique and I always thought that was so different. And I think about sales in the same way, you know, and I think about sal seasons and moments so that you aren't doing those things even if you're a guest on the show. Could be. You know, if we're on a show and the show is a 45 minute show, you know, one of the things we always let clients we work with is exactly, all right, why this show? Right? And so we talk about some of the things that this show's known for. We talk about some of the things we've noticed, not just from the guests, but some of the analytics. We can figure out exactly why their main core audience is a 32 year old female out of New York who even might even be a parent who has a high income. Like that's how detailed we are and what we're doing, but we're educating them so they aren't just on a podcast just to be up Here talking, they know exactly what maybe the last five reviews have been like. They know exactly why the host might have said yes to them, to have an understanding of some of the topics that they might talk about. You know, especially when you work with like a lot of high profile clients in itself, you know, there might be some topics that they just, they, we ain't having that conversation. So I think, you know, educating them allows for whatever the objective is to have happen. Right. You know, the way I view podcasting is I know the value of just like really building community and really being an example and really being an option of showing that, hey, look, this is even possible. And those are my guys. You know, whatever show you're on, you know, you're either going to attract everybody that's for you or you're going to repel everybody that's against you. But you got to understand that it's okay. It happens. But this is how you really build a community that you love, that you're excited to show for, and that's your passion. Passionate to be able to help.

Amazing. And just adding to this through line too. If you show up on that show being authentic and genuine, then the person that you are on the show matches who they meet in person or on the call. It just amplifies the trust so much more and makes the sale easier to happen and makes the connection easier to happen too. So, man, Sean, I tell you, this was a neat episode. Neat as in we put a bow on this nicely. This is just really consistent. And listen, before you go, let the listeners know again about you, your company and how they can work with you.

Yeah, well, you can find me on all platforms at Sean S H A W N R Anthony Underscore. And you can also find us at paupermax. Com. You can listen to the podcast at schools over now. What all audio platforms. Let me know what you learned from this episode. Like, I really, I really enjoy feedback. I really enjoy, you know, when people say, oh, I heard you on this and this is what I learned. You know, there might be something that we got for you that can help accelerate that. And it's been an honor being here with you, man, and enjoyed your show.

Hey, man, likewise. Thank you so, so much for joining us. Really appreciate it. Congratulations. You've just joined an elite club by listening to a full episode. You're now officially on the Negotiate Anything team. So welcome aboard. What most team members do is they subscribe to the podcast because that allows them to automatically get the latest episodes of the show. The best things in life lie on the other side side of difficult conversations. Keep learning, keep practicing, and keep getting better. Your relationships will improve, your career will soar, and you'll have the confidence you need to get the most out of these crucial conversations. Again, thank you for joining the team. We're excited to have you, and I will see you in the next episode. I'll catch you later.