Valentine’s Day Bonus: Whitney Joins Negotiate Anything

Hello, my friends, and welcome to another exciting episode of Negotiate Anything. This show is produced by the American Negotiation Institute, and with over 5 million downloads and listeners in over 180 countries, listeners just like you have made this the number one negotiation podcast in the world. Hi, my name is Kwame Christian, and I am the founder and CEO of the American Negotiation Institute. Here at AI, we believe that the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations, and we are passionate about providing you with the best content that will help you to make your difficult conversations easier, both at work and at home. Lastly, I want to remind you that we offer consulting and conduct trainings both virtually and in person all around the world. Our focus is in three main areas. First, negotiation and conflict resolution. Second, leadership. And lastly, diversity, equity, and inclusion. Check the link in the description below to learn more about how we could work with you and your team. And now, without further ado, let's jump into the interview. Whitney, thanks for joining us today.

Thanks for having me.

So how would you get us started? By telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do.

My name is Whitney Christian. I am a family physician in Ohio. I'm also the wife of Kwame Christian, the mother of Kai and Dominic Christian. And those. Those roles keep me pretty busy. I like to believe I do other things, too, but those are the main things that I do on a daily basis.

Yes, listeners, so if this is your first time listening to an episode, this probably is not the best episode to listen to, to, like, get a vibe on what this podcast typically is, because after seven years and over 700 episodes, I've done the thing that I've been avoiding, which is having Whitney on the show.

So you have been avoiding it. You made it seem like it was me that was running away from your podcast.

Yes, of course I did.

Okay, there. You heard it. You heard it here first, people.

Yes. So it was becoming harder and harder to avoid. And so we, you know, posted about it. Hey, Whitney's coming on the podcast, unfortunately, that posted really well.

Unfortunately.

And so here we are having this. And so just promise me you won't embarrass me in front of my friend.

I don't really know that I can make that promise. I don't like telling lies.

Oh, boy.

And I don't like making promises I can't keep. So I will say that I will be completely honest in this interview. So you be careful. The questions you ask me, your honesty.

Is the thing that concerns me the most. So. So I asked folks on LinkedIn and less so on Instagram because, you know, people.

Instagram doesn't like you.

Instagram hates me, man. Like, they just. People just come to see you, Kai and Dominic. Nobody cares about me on Instagram. So let's just talk about LinkedIn. And we got a lot of questions from people. And I think what was really interesting is that I was saying, okay, Whitney's a doctor. She's going to come on the show and talk about. Talk about, like, difficult conversations that she has with patients and all that type of stuff. But there was a very clear pattern in the responses on LinkedIn. People want to know about you as a person and about us as a couple, you know, which is terrifying.

Well, you know, this is. It's the day before Valentine's Day while we are recording this. So this one's for the lovers out there.

Yep. And with that, let's get started. Why don't you talk about our origin story? How did Quitney get started?

Quitney, that's our relationship name that our friends coined back in college. We met sophomore year of college. Actually, I first learned about you in the summer between freshman and sophomore year. My freshman and sophomore roommate, her name is Lindsay. Hey, Lindsay. She went on a study abroad trip this summer between freshman and sophomore year, and you happen to be there. You guys went to Ecuador for Spanish class. And she actually sent me a Facebook message in the middle of the summer like, hey, there's this guy named Kwame that I think you should meet. And I think you guys will be great together. And I was very studious. I didn't really care to meet you. I was just like, why is she trying to hook me up with this guy? And so I was like, okay, sure, whatever. And then sophomore year started, and you all had a get together with all the people who went on the trip. And you came to our dorm because I guess Lindsay had to pick something up. So you kind of just poked your head in. And I was sitting there studying because I was trying to get into med school. So I wasn't. I was in the books. And he said hi. I looked and said hi. And that was it until the next quarter. We were on quarters back then. And then we ended up being in a class together.

So let's. I remember that day very clearly because it wasn't just you said hi. It was quite dismissive, I would say, because it was. You turned around briefly and literally only said hi.

I was studying biology. I had to stay focused.

And you just turned around, said hi, and turned back around. Like, I don't even think you waited for my response of hi back. And I was like, well, that went well. Let's go eat some tacos.

Did she say anything about me to you? I actually have never asked you this before. Did Lindsay say anything about me to you before you met me?

Nope.

Okay, so then you didn't have any expectation anyway?

I had an expectation. As soon as I saw you, I was like, well, try this out. I dropped my line. I said, hi.

That was a line?

That was a line.

It's just a greeting.

I didn't have much game. Okay. And so, you know, fast forward.

Fast forward to the next quarter. Winter quarter, it was. We had a Spanish class together, and then we also had the same Spanish tutor. I will go ahead and say right off the bat, I didn't need tutoring. I got a 4.0 in my minor for Spanish. But we ended up having the same tutor, and we had a couple sessions together that I enjoyed your company during those sessions. And then we started to study together, which didn't really do too great because we were mostly flirting.

Yeah, that's. That's where my game came in.

I don't know that it was game. I just thought you were cute in the lack of game that you had, because I just felt like there was just. Just honesty there.

Dude, that's my game.

Okay? If that's what you want to call it.

I need to call it for my ego.

Okay.

But yes, that was. That was it really. It was just saying, hey, you want to study? And those. Those study sessions went well. They went well because of the chemistry we had. Um, it went very poorly in terms of, like, actually studying. Unlike Whitney, I did not have a 4.0. I was struggling mightily. It's like I came back from Ecuador feeling really confident because I could speak really fluidly, but, like, the perfection of Spanish grammar was just destroying me. And we came up to the drop deadline because you're getting. Trying to get into med school. I'm trying to get into law school, and I'm like, this. Where this Spanish minor is going to. It's not looking good for me.

Were you trying to get into law school at that time?

Yes.

You were pre med at one point. Remember that?

That was very brief. Yeah. Thankfully. Because I wanted to be. I was thinking I was in psychology. My. My major was psychology. I was thinking psychiatry for a bit. Yeah. And then I saw. Then I saw organic chemistry abuse all of my friends, and I was like, I want no part of this. I'll just. I'll avoid it. But anyways, so we came up to the drop deadline, and I was like, I'm going to have to drop this class. And I was talking to my tutor who to stick into it. Stick to it. And Whitney was there, like, oh, you know, don't you. Maybe you should just keep on trying. Just keep on trying. And I.

That was my way of saying that I like having you around.

Yeah. And I stuck to it, and I managed to get a B, and the rest is history. I'm made it into law school, and your. Your med school entry was never in question, so. Yeah. So that's how the. The. The love story started. And then we can talk about how it. Well, it didn't end. It's still going to continue.

Yes, we're still here.

Let's go through grad school from your perspective. Like, from, like. All right, we're in Spanish class, going, well, how did we start dating? Because this actually leads us to one of the questions from Victoria, I believe. Yes. I'd like to see you ask her what happened and what did you say that left her the most starstruck when you were dating for her to feel like you were the one? So. Yeah. What was it? What did I say? Yeah, what did I say that left you the most starstruck?

Okay, first of all, Victoria, don't address the word starstruck.

Just roll with starstruck.

Okay. I was gonna say I was never starstruck. I did like you. You were cute. There's that. I don't know if you have seen my husband, but he's very handsome, and he's very chocolatey, and I like chocolate, so there's that.

Thank you.

Yeah, you're welcome. And then, I don't know, like I said, I didn't feel like you had game, because I think if you had tried to actually use what people call game, that would have been a turn off for me. I liked that. You seem genuinely interested in me as a person, and we're not just running game. You wanted to hang out with me. You wanted to do things with me. You know, you acted the same around me. With your friends or just me. So it was just the. You were genuine, whereas a lot of other college guys are, you know.

You know, spin game.

Yeah.

Yeah. I. I was incapable of it. I. But clearly it worked out. Yeah. So I'm glad it worked out. Cool. So we. We got married on a busy day.

So we got married the day I graduated from undergrad. Kwame actually graduated a quarter earlier. You graduated? What. What do we call that? Was it spring.

Spring, quarter. No. Or I graduated, like, in March, Winter, whatever that was. Yeah.

You graduated the quarter before me. And I graduated when most people normally graduate the biggest graduation. And then I was like, hey, you know, why not, you know, make it a real day to remember. Let's get married, too. My family's already in town for my graduation, so let's do this thing.

We like to be efficient. And my parents got married on graduation day. Dad from med school, mom from. From her PhD program, got married the same day. They were foreign. You know, they were immigrants, so their family wasn't always in the country, so it made sense. All right, we're going to celebrate graduation, celebrate the wedding. I'm like, you know what? It worked for them. Let's just do it now. And now with. I am very happy that we got married then, because seeing the price tags of what our friends are putting into weddings, it is.

I know we were young and broke, so I was thinking of having. And I would still like to do this. We need to talk more about it. A just, like, now that we're more established. Another celebration of our union, like a vow renewal.

I would like the record to reflect that. I just talked about how great it was that we got married back when we were broke and we didn't have to spend money. And Whitney's like, like, I've been thinking about that, too, and I would like us to spend a lot of money.

Well, we'll talk. We'll talk more offline about this.

Yeah. So, hey, everybody, when we launch this online course and community, please help a brother out so I could pay for this. This little shindig Whitney's asking for. Goodness gracious. So, Victoria, there's your answer. When you said. When I saw the word starstruck in this question, I'm like, this. This response is going to be hilarious.

Okay, Easy on you.

I appreciate that. All right, so let's move forward. You're in med school. I'm getting my law degree and master's of public policy. Describe the relationship then.

The relationship, as I remember, it was mostly like, we studied. We went to our respective professional school classes. And then when we weren't in class or I wasn't in rotations. So the third and fourth year of med school is rotations. Then we just hung out together at home. We studied. We ate food. If we went out to a restaurant, we ordered one dish and shared it because we were broke. Yeah, that's what I remember.

I do remember that. Pulling that move all the time. All the time. Because we would go out to eat, like, maybe once a semester or once a calendar year or, you know, at.

The beginning, when you get those loans and you feel a little bit rich.

Yes. Okay, good. Now, I think after we get through med school, I think we could get to a. A really great question from Robert Kennard. What is the biggest thing you both had to negotiate while being married?

Would you like to answer this one, or. Okay. Oh, yeah, that's right. I'm the interviewee. You're the interviewer. Hands down, the biggest thing that we've had to negotiate is bringing another life into this world. After our first child, there is a sizable gap in age. So our oldest is seven, and our baby is a year and a half. And the reason for that is, you know, in the beginning, before we even got married, Kwame said he wanted two kids. I said I wanted three. I was able to, you know, be okay with the idea of two. And then after the first one, Kwame had a real hard time people adjusting to fatherhood and what it really was. He had a really hard time adjusting to the difference in attention he got from me when it was just us to when there was a baby. So after that first child, he was like, I am not trying to lose more of your time and attention. So he didn't want to have any more children, and it took four and a half years to convince him to have another baby. And that is definitely the biggest. And now he, you know, you're very happy. You love our babies, both of them.

I'm going to go into interviewer mode right now. So tell me more about the conversation you had with your husband for the second child. What's the second child's name again?

Dominic.

Dominic. Beautiful name, by the way. Tell me about how you went about having that difficult conversation with your husband.

I mean, I don't think there was just one conversation over the course of those years.

It was just multiple conversations in your mind. That was just it. There was no, like, grander strategy or anything like that or just, like, keep on talking about it until he gives in. Was that, like, the plan?

Not necessarily until you give in, but, you know, it's kind of like, oh, you know, life is changing. Things are a little bit more easy right now. Maybe now is a good time to bring it up.

Hmm. Oh, this is actually quite fascinating. This is really interesting. Anything else that's coming to mind?

I mean, Kai really wanted a brother. I remember that both of our mothers wanted another grandchild. Everybody wanted a baby except for you.

Yeah, 100% true. Yeah. This is interesting.

So what is it that you're. You clearly have another idea that you're thinking of that I don't know what you're talking about.

I mean, it just shows, like, the difference in how we think through these types of things. So, like, if it was a big negotiation for me, I would have had, like, a. Like a strategy laid out. I would have had, like, a sequence of conversations that I would have had.

Oh, no, I didn't do that.

Like, I would have said in this conversation my goal would be to do X, Y and Z. But, yeah, for you, it was just, like, persistence.

Yeah.

Fascinating. Yeah. So, listeners, it became really clear, like, I was the problem. You know, like, everybody wanted a baby, another one. And then once Kai got to the point where he could, like, vocalize himself, like, articulate himself really clearly, I was like, oh, my gosh. Okay, now he's having a vote, too. It's going to be hard for me to. To. To withstand this level of pressure.

I actually feel like Kai had more of a negotiation than I did. I have a video of him before we were pregnant talking about, like, if I do. He was like, four at the time. If I do well in school, if I, like, listen to you at home, then we can have another baby. I have this video of him, and then a few months later we got pregnant. So I really think he was the one who did the big negotiation.

Yeah, he. He. It was really mainly Kai. It really was. And I think you were. You were a lot more flexible the second time around, too, in, like, having more childcare.

Yeah. I mean, we also had more money, so. Yes, more money to. More resources to dedicate. To that, I'd like to thank the.

American Negotiation Institute for sponsoring our second child.

And also I was finished with residency, so I have an attending salary instead of a resident salary. True, true.

Okay. Yeah, no, that's right. That's right. Yeah. It was mainly persistence, but then also bringing in that persuasive voice of Kai to this negotiation. So that was the big one. Whenever people ask, like, oh, yeah, what was. There's a big age difference between the two kids, I was like, yeah, that is the extent of my negotiation abilities, you know, so. So, yeah, there you go. So, Robert, there's your. There's the answer to that question.

Can I. Can I play something here?

Sure.

People, this is.

Here. I'll put it next to my mic.

It's this one right here. You see the one with he. Where he's peeking his head through?

Yeah.

I turn this. What Are you saying I want that water? And how are you gonna get it? If I write good and work very good, huh?

Show good, show hard on earth. Like even, like so hard.

1000 belly and one hard, then might be able to get weighty. Okay, and how you gonna get the baby by. By learning to not kept kick people. And I mean people in the peepee.

Was he kicking people in the PP at the time?

No, I think that what happened was you would wrestle with him and then sometimes he would accidentally pick you in the pee pee.

He would do that all the time. I'm like, you're hurting, daddy. It doesn't feel good.

And also, it's not good for you making more babies.

So this is unreal. Simone, feel free to edit whatever you want.

No, I think that should stay in. Oh, that's just, you know, scientifically true, that.

But that is very consistent with Kai. If I work really hard, like 100 billion percent hard, then maybe I could.

And he was four at the time.

He's still working hard. Four for what, man? I like it, though. I like it. This is great. Okay, cool. Now this is something that was brought up by my producer at LinkedIn Learning, Heather Schuller. She asked this question, and another one of my friends, Julia, asked the version of this question. So I'll go to Julia's version. She says that for her as an expert negotiator, she says, the thing that people always ask me is, I bet Brad hates being married to a negotiator. And so for you, being married to somebody who is considered by some to be a negotiation expert. Please lower your eyes. Your eye rolling, that's a microaggression. Hurt me deeply. Okay, you can mail your eye.

Continue the question, please.

How does it feel to be married to a negotiator?

Awful. You know, I mean, I really appreciate what you do, like, from a professional standpoint, but leave it outside.

Leave it outside, you say?

Yeah, because sometimes I know what you're doing, and I'm just like, no, just have a regular conversation with me without using tactics or just. Some of it is not negotiation. Some of it is I feel that it might be like, I'm on the stand and you're interrogating me. And I. I guess it's not called interrogating, but that's what it feels like. You're an attorney. You're trained to argue, and I don't like it. I'm trained to, like, save lives and, you know, help people live their best, healthiest life. And you're trained to Argue with people. And I don't. And that's not something that I always have interest in doing.

So it sounds like your biggest challenges with being married to somebody like me.

Why are you smiling so much? You can hear the smile. Y' all hear that, right? Y' all hear his smile?

I'm trying to be a good interviewer. Okay, Go ahead and not be defensive. So it seems like the biggest challenge is at times it can seem argumentative.

Yes. I'm trying to think of a recent example without actually giving the specific example. Like, you'll say something like, so, oh, the other day, you were. You came home, he. He was gone on a work trip.

First of all, I never go on work trips.

You were gone from Sunday to Thursday. I was exhausted.

I barely.

And when you came back, you. I was at work, and you said, you sent me a text message, oh, can I please do the dishes tonight? And I'm like, just do the dishes right now. Like, you don't have to ask or beg me to do the dishes. I'm just like, okay, I'll play along. Yes, please do the dishes. That'd be great. And then, you know, I get home, the dishes are still in the sink. Whatever. He said tonight, after dinner. Okay, great. And then we go to bed. The dishes are still there. And then the next day, you're like, well, I said after dinner. It's still after dinner. It is the next day, sir. It's after dinner. It's way after dinner. Like, you just. You find these loopholes.

Well, first of all, let's not conflate, like, my personal flaws and shortcomings with, like, my expertise as a negotiator. Okay? So let's get that off the table. And based on the way that you're describing the times when I'm annoying, it's not the negotiator part of me that's annoying. It is the lawyer part of me that's annoying.

The lawyer part. Yeah, definitely.

Because negotiators don't argue. If I, like, wanted to persuade you, I wouldn't argue. But then sometimes you get caught up in the fog of war. A conversation gets heated, and then I become a lawyer, and then you're like.

No, just say yes or no. Answer the question yes or no. It's not just a yes or no question. There are other things. There are other details that matter here, and you cannot cut me off from expressing myself in these other details.

So. So there are times where that has occurred, and those times are really indefensible. So let's Just like.

Okay, thank you. I was trying to figure out where that was going.

I was trying to figure out a better answer than the truth, which was not on my side. So. Yeah. I mean, yeah, sometimes. Sometimes I get a little lawyer. I'm sorry. Took three years of my life, you know, so. Of schooling and then, you know, practice. So sometimes I get a little cross examining.

Okay.

But that's not. That's not. That's not me as a negotiator. Yeah.

The time, like, negotiate. You're. You have negotiated some good things for our marriage. Like when I was working too much and you said, take some, you know, lower your fte. FTE is how many hours you work. Yeah, so I lowered it from 1.0 to 0.75.

Yeah. That took months, by the way.

Well, I can't just lower it 1. I have patients who are scheduled, like, months in advance, so that's why it takes months.

Don't act like it was the patience that made it take so long. Wait, it took a while for you to even, like, accept it as a legitimate possibility. You're like, no, Kwame, I like working myself to death.

I never said that.

No, you just. You said it with your words, with your actions.

Okay.

Oh, look who's defensive now.

I'm not defensive.

Your shoulders are all high.

I'm just tired because I worked today.

You make it sound like I don't work with.

I didn't. I didn't say you didn't work. I said I worked today. Did I say anything about Kwame?

I don't know. I'm all defensive.

Yeah, you are. I don't know.

Super defensive, listeners. I'm not this defensive. I'm Kwame Christian. You know, I'm this, like, lovable guy. Let's go back to these questions. This is like.

Yeah, I feel like we're gonna have to do a lot of editing on this, man.

I. This. I shouldn't have done this episode. I'm all off my game. I'm a good interviewer. Usually this is. Let's just go to the questions. Okay. Anyways. Yes. Talar, my friend from Ireland who now lives in the States. Yes. She has a really cool question. Ask Whitney to tell you something that you don't think she knows about you. So I want you to try to tell me something about me that you think that I don't know that.

That I think that you don't know that I know.

Yes. Yes.

Oh, that is a good one. I don't. Can we come back to that one later? I'LL have to think about it for a while.

Ok.

Something that I know about you that you don't think I know.

Such a dangerous question.

I know what you do when you sneak out of bed at night. Kwame has insomnia. Have you told them this?

I don't think I've come up publicly and said it.

Oh, well, you can cut that part out.

I was fine. Hippa schmippa. Yeah, I have insomnia.

So sometimes he just gets out of bed in the middle of the night and he starts doing stuff for his work.

Yeah.

And I roll over and I'm like, where is my husband?

Yeah, my. The team is quite familiar with, like the 2:00am, 3:00am messages. Yeah, it's. It's pretty wild. But, yeah, usually it's. It's not that exciting. I just go down into my man cave and try to sleep aggressively. Fun fact. Trying hard to sleep.

Not. Not really good.

Sleep harder, Kwame. Sleep harder. Yeah, it does help.

I think you know that. I know that you resent me for being able to sleep at, like, any moment, at any time.

It is your superpower. Most despicable quality.

Oh, like, I can fall asleep standing up.

This is. This is the thing. There are. There are several layers of resentment. So it's just. It's not just the fact that you're flaunting the ability to sleep when I struggle with it. It's not just that. It's the nights when we have a difficult conversation and I'm all heated.

An argument. He's calling it a difficult conversation, but what he means is an argument.

I wish this was recorded so people could see, like, how smug you looked when I said it's the nights when we have, like, a difficult conversation. You got so smug. Because what happens is I'm all wound up. I'm all mad and everything like that. And then I can't sleep. Too worked up to sleep. And Whitney's like, you know, the conversation ends and Whitney's like, good night. And immediately falls asleep. Like it didn't bother her at all.

Well, I'm never not tired is the first thing. I don't know of a time when I've not been tired since residency. And I had Kai in second year residency, so my career and my children, I'm always tired. I can always take a nap. So that's number one. That's why I can fall asleep easily. Number two, sleep does amazing things for my emotional regulation. When I wake up in the morning, I'm not mad anymore. So I know that the sooner I Go to sleep. The sooner I'll be like, hey, Kwame, how are you doing? And then you wake up the next morning and you're still pissed. Probably more so than before because I slept and you didn't. Yeah, but I'm like, hey, I feel fine because one, I don't hold grudges in general as a person, and two, I just slept and that helped my emotions just like, come, come down. I'm even killed.

Now onto the next question. What is non negotiable?

Like in our marriage or.

Oh, that's it. That is Rashida asking an open ended question. Let's see where you take it.

I mean, this podcast is called Negotiate Anything, so it's kind of. It's kind of hard to come up with. I guess that our family comes first is non negotiable. Like the well being of our family is top priority.

That's good. That's a good answer. So Ryan said, I'd love to know her negotiation strategies for negotiating with you. So besides the, the, the baby negotiation, which I guess was just like, you know, brute force and persistence.

I wouldn't say it was brute force. I didn't like, put you in a headlock or something.

You used my son against me.

I didn't tell him he himself wanted a brother.

You used my son to create another son.

But anyway, that was all him.

He was your strategy for negotiating with me. If you want to change my mind on something.

So I know that you are all about research and reasons for things. So if I wanted to change your mind about something, doing some research ahead of time, of things that I will talk to you about, the benefits of doing it, whatever it is, the way I want to do it, and then giving so background on why it's good, either scientifically or anecdotally for other people, why it has worked well, or. Yeah, just those main two things and then coming up with reasons that it would be good specifically for you or me or our family.

All right, I have another question. Would you say that I'm hard to persuade?

It depends on what it is. You are stubborn about some things. Yes.

I'm stubborn about things, yeah.

So do you want to know what things you're stubborn about? Should I?

Yeah, go ahead. Tell the world.

Putting the toilet seat down. I can't persuade you to do that. Like, it's been 13 years almost, and you still leave the toilet seat up every time.

Hold up.

Not every single time, basically 98% of the time.

But which. But not. Not in our bathroom.

Yes, you do. I Go in there multiple times a day and the toilet seat is up. I didn't put it that way.

There is some kind of elf struggling with toxic masculinity in this house. Cuz I put the seat down every day.

Okay, so there's that. And then also I. I just, I don't want to. I don't want to. I don't want to badmouth you on your podcast. So we'll just leave it there.

So listen, I stand by all women and my wife in fighting this scourge of the toilet seat being up. It disgusts me and it needs to stop. I feel like in this situation, no doubt I have fallen short, but it is not intentional. I don't look at the toilet seat. I'm like, man, I'm leaving this up. It's going to be great. I just don't think about it. It's an. It's an awareness thing. When I do think about it, I put it down. I just usually don't. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so noted. Noted. I will. I have growing to do. I'll do better.

Other things sometimes that you are stubborn about. So Kwame has an undergraduate degree in psychology, but he thinks that makes him a psychologist. It doesn't. So some things with our kids, as far as like early childhood developmental stages, I'll, you. You want to do certain things. And I'm like, no, like, developmentally, this is on track. And you're like, well, who's the psychology major? And I know about early childhood psychology and development. Like, but like, I'm a family physician, so I actually like, see pediatric patients quite often, not just my own children. So I also have that experience in practice. Not just like books that I read when I was in undergrad. But you get very, like, you're very staunch about, about that when it comes up. And I'm just like, you know what? Picking my battles. You can go ahead and have that one.

What?

You're laughing because it's true.

No, I'm laughing. There's a. There's a Kwame in my head. Like, Kwame, set the record straight. Go get her. Go get her. And then there's another Kwame like, Kwame. Tens of thousands of people will hear you. So there are these voices in my head. How do I respond? Yeah, you know, thank you for sharing your thoughts.

You're welcome. Oh, man. Oh, you a lot. Listen, I feel like I might regret doing this interview later.

How would you regret the interview?

Because I feel like you, you're like taking mental notes about things to, like, use against me later.

First of all, I never take notes. Never.

You have an entire document on your. On your phone where you just talk to yourself all day and you take notes.

Who's going to believe that? The next question. So this question is from Solangel. I'm not sure if anybody has asked this question. However, what is something you each have learned in your professions that your spouse has been able to utilize and put into practice? So, for me, as a lawyer and negotiation expert, clearly with questionable negotiation skills.

No, you have wonderful negotiation skills.

What have you learned from me? And I'll respond from your perspective, too.

I've learned about compassionate curiosity. So going in, asking questions in a compassionate way, and really listening for the answer to be able to have a better understanding of where the person's coming from.

Nice. Can you give an example of when you used it?

I think I use it every day because I interview people every day for work. I talk to people and ask them, you know, whatever. Whatever the medical issue is or that they're dealing with. I asked them, you know, what's bothering, bothering them. How did they get to this point? You know, if the problem is that maybe they're not taking their medication like it's prescribed, trying to get a better idea of why not? Is it just because they're like, I don't want to take medicine, or is it because the medicine is giving them a side effect? Or is it because they're afraid the medicine might give them a side effect, so they never even tried it? Or is it because they can't afford their medication? So just trying to. Instead of saying, hey, I see you're not taking your medicine, why not? Just saying, you know, I know that there are a lot of reasons why people may have trouble taking their medications as prescribed. Is there anything that is getting in your way of taking your medications?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Nice. Cool, cool, cool. I think for me, it's just recognizing the expertise of, like, the body is. There's a lot to know, and there's a lot that I don't know. And so it's just recognizing, okay, I've lived with myself for a good amount of time, but that does not make me like a doctor. I don't know, like, what's really happening. And so just having a bit more humility and getting checked up when I need to. I think just recognizing that expertise and deferring to people in the medical field when appropriate has been one of the greatest learnings for me, you know, so.

And I'll add onto that, while you're not a physician. You are the only person who has lived in your body for as long as you've been alive. So in that way, you're an expert on your own body. So if you feel like something's off, you should definitely advocate for yourself to get it checked out and get an answer and hopefully a treatment that works to make you feel better or to resolve the problem or to manage the problem. So he said you're, you know, you're not a physician just because you lived in your body, but you are. You do know your body better than other people.

Right?

Know your body.

Okay. No, this. That makes a lot of sense. And that's. That's right. I think it's that blend, like, because what I would often do is I would feel something like this feels kind of off. Kind of off. It'll probably be fine and then just moving on with it. But you push me to get checked up, which is. Which is good. And also, you. When I'm like, I mean, you're a doctor. Just look at me. I make sure I'm okay. And you never let that slide. So I appreciate that. I see. Another good question from Julia. She is the question queen right now. Can you think about times where negotiation and conflict resolution skills have helped us in our marriage?

Oh, yeah. Yes. Are we talking about specific examples?

Yeah, go ahead.

I think something that I learned from you in negotiation is kind of acknowledging and legitimizing other people's feelings and experiences. So trying to come at the conversation that way first. Like, I'm upset about this, or I feel, you know, we left things at a bad place. But when we come back to the conversation, trying to not only talk about how I feel in it, but acknowledge how you feel in it and how that might affect, you know, your decision making in this or kind of what you would be open to as far as negotiating the subject. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it definitely does. Yeah. The validating and acknowledgment, that goes a long way, because otherwise I would have felt. A lot of times I would feel the need to kind of, like, impress upon you, like, how I'm feeling. I'm feeling mad, I'm feeling sad, I'm feeling disappointed, I'm feeling lonely, I'm feeling hurt, whatever it happens to be. And I think earlier on in the relationship, you would just say, like, yeah, I'm tired because I'm in residency, and residency hours are wild. This is what I have to do. And I'm like, I understand the fact. I'm talking about How I feel about this. So now you do a much better job of. Of acknowledging that, which I appreciate.

Yeah, I think that's helped our. Our marriage and our relationship. When I acknowledge that and validate that. You know, while it's true that I'm tired because I worked an 80 hour work week in residency or now I'm out of residency, I don't work like that anymore. I worked, you know, 36 hours at my job and then came home and took care of the kids. What?

You've never worked 36 hours?

Because I don't work 36 hours at my job.

No.

Per week.

That's how much you're at the office. That doesn't count. You're not counting the.

Oh, I thought you were saying I work less than that. I was like, excuse me, sir.

No, no, you like, that's. If you.

Yeah, I do work more than that, but that was. I'm just saying I don't work as much as I worked in residency, and then I come home and I do stuff with the kids, you know, take care of them. And then so I'm just like, I'm tired. This is true. But also, you have feelings and needs, and it's nice that you want to spend time with me. That's something that I would want my spouse to want. So just trying to acknowledge and validate that and then act on it, saying, like, okay, these hours are dedicated for Kwame time. Or, you know, let's plan a date night regularly so that you don't feel that way. Even though I'm tired, we can just carve out this time and it'll be protected.

This conversation reminded me of another conversation that we had. When we think about persuasion, I'd be interested to hear, like, if you're trying to persuade me. We talked about the negotiation strategies, things like that. But if you're trying to persuade me, like, you know, that there are certain specific, like, Kwame strings to pull that can persuade. Yeah. Your Kai smile creeping onto your face.

What is the question, sir? Because I can.

The question is when you think about things that motivate me, things that get, like, make it more likely for me to do what it is that you want. When you think about persuasion, like, what comes to mind? How do I persuade Kwame?

Sex.

Not where I thought.

That's why I was smiling like that, because I thought that's what you were getting. Is that not the most persuasive thing for you?

This is.

You said at the beginning of this interview, you said, don't embarrass me. I said, I cannot promise that I will be completely honest. That is the complete, 100% honest answer. And you know, it's also a fact.

Dr. Whitney Christian, we thank you for your first conversation. I thought that's what you.

That's why I was looking at you like that. Like, do you really want me to answer this question? Did you not read the eyes?

I read the eyes. I didn't think you anyways. Yeah. Okay, so that's what I didn't think I was gonna be. That's good. It's a solid answer. It's factually correct. Now, is there anything else.

You like to work out together?

I do.

So those physical activities. Physical activities. And also cuddling. Another, you know, physical activity. So your love language is quality time and physical touch.

Correct.

So those, those things move the needle for you.

They certainly do. I was thinking about the time, I think it was in December where you wanted us to go on more dates and you were disappointed on how many dates I was taking you on. Do you remember your approach there?

I said I wanted more romance.

Yeah.

And I said, maybe you're not romantic. Is that what I said?

Nope, you said. I said, well, you know, you're always. You're busy, you're tired. I'm mindful about like taking too much of your time. I don't want to like ask for time that you're not willing to give. So I was like, my, my mentality for romance is like, work super, super, super hard in the business, make more money and then buy back more of your time as you start to scale back. And that was. That's what I said.

Yeah. And I was like, but what about right now?

Yeah.

This week, Next week? I don't like that's going to take time.

Uh huh.

I want romance now.

And then I said to that. I was like, I thought you were too tired to go on these types of like, dates and stuff. But now I know, so that's good. But there was one thing that you said I don't. You don't remember? You'll remember once I said it. You said, yeah, because I'm getting a lot of beta vibes from you right now. You remember texting that? Yeah, I was like, beta. Excuse me, Kwame Christian is not a beta, whatever that means in this context. When I romance the hell out of you now. Yeah. I was romancing.

I do know that I can say certain things and usually I reserve those, you know, but sometimes it's necessary to get the, to get the desired outcome.

The ego yeah, the ego is there. Yeah, the ego can be there. Really? And I know I'm getting played. Sometimes I gotta make a point.

Mm.

Unbelievable.

So you. Then you took me to Cancun for my birthday. So that worked.

It was great.

It was a nice date.

It was a very nice date. How, as a doctor, do you balance being a successful doctor, Clinical professor, as well? So you have students that rotate with you. You have three children.

Are you calling yourself a child? Why are you saying three children at times? I appreciate you acknowledging that because I wouldn't have said it, because, like I said, I'm not trying to disrespect you on your own podcast.

Listeners. Did you hear what she said? She's. It's not that she is. She doesn't want to disrespect me in general. She's like, not on your podcast.

That's like coming in somebody's house and then, like, coming in their house and disrespecting them and starting to fight in their own house.

Yeah.

Yeah, that happened.

Yeah, that was Christmas. Yeah, that was Christmas. I will bring that up to the dawn of the end of the.

Get it. We don't need to get into that. That's family business.

Coming into my house.

Okay. All right. Moving on. What was the question?

I forget, but this answer has been great.

So how do you balance with extreme difficulty and actually, probably not at all how do I. Because I feel like there's always going to be something that gets the short end of the stick. So, yes, I'm doing all these things, but I never feel like I'm doing all of them to the best of my ability or to the point where I'm satisfied. So, for example, we talked about how sometimes Kwame would feel lonely or like we didn't have enough time together. So sometimes it would be our relationship that suffered because I was so busy. Sometimes it would be, you know, I want to be home to. To see my son get off the bus, but I can't because the clinic ran late. And so somebody's there to get him off the bus, either Kwame or his mom. But I would like to be home more, but that's not always possible. And then otherwise, you know, I la. Last week was a crazy week. Kwame was traveling. So, you know, I got a call from the school. I had to pick. Pick Kai up from school because he was sick. So, you know, I'm not gonna spend extra time at work to get my charts closed. I got a call in the middle of the day two weeks ago that Kai had injured himself, and so I had to cancel patients to take to pick him up from school and take him to be checked out that day. So something is always going to win, and that means that something else is going to lose. But you just have to choose at the time what is the most important thing, and then knowing that you're going to come back to the other things when you can. So I don't know that that's balanced. That's just, you know, you just have to make choices and then know that something is going to suffer in the. Just temporarily, and then you'll come back to it and try to pick it up when you can.

Yeah, no, that is really good. I have another one from Joshua Mitchell. What advice do you have for people who are resolving conflicts in a marriage or a relationship?

Know that there are seasons for everything. So I don't know, you know, everybody's conflict. Some conflicts are probably insurmountable, and maybe you shouldn't stay together. Now, this is not me giving relationship advice, but there are seasons in a relationship. There are different things that you may have to overcome. And if you feel like your relationship is worth it and that it is something that you can overcome, just know that you're gonna have to work at it and it won't feel like this always.

It's great advice.

And then also, things can get better, and then they can get bad again, because we're humans, that's for sure. It's not gonna be like, oh, everything's better, and now it's smooth sailing forever. There are seasons.

That is true. And sometimes you have to be very patient. Elaine has a great question here. What would you coach me to do differently to make me a more effective communicator?

I love this question. Before the end of the question, I was like, what would I coach you to do differently? Let me write this list of things in the house. But, oh, just to be a more effective communicator. So that one specifically. And now this is probably very specific to our relationship. I know when you are upset about something, and then you always pretend like you're not for, like, hours at a time, which now I just try to give you space to, you know, process your feelings. But when I ask you, hey, is something wrong? And then you tell me, no, then I just feel like you're lying to me. So just being honest, like, yeah, something's wrong. I just don't want to talk about it right now. And let me know when it's okay to approach you, because my thing is, I Want to talk about it and, you know, try to come to a resolution sooner so that we can, you know, snuggle and be happy and lovey dovey again. But you're not in that same space that I'm in, so. But I need you to, like, at least acknowledge the fact that I'm feeling something that is real coming from you, because otherwise I'm just like, what. What am I supposed to do with that? Should I avoid you? And then you think, like, I don't care if I'm not near you or don't try to figure out what's going on, or if I'm, you know, like, extra lovey dovey, then I'm just annoying you because you don't want to be near me. So I need to. I need you to tell me when you're upset about something. Like, what is it that you want me to do? Do you want me to wait and come back in two hours to talk to you about it? Do you, like, not need to see my face right now because it's angering you? I don't know. So that's the main thing. I don't think that that's. I think that's way too specific for her question, but that's it.

It's a great answer. It's a great answer. And following up on that, what would you say are my biggest blind spots? Just in general.

Blind spot. I don't know if I would call it a blind spot, but I think that especially because you are a negotiator and you try not to go into things emotionally, you. You sometimes pretend that you don't have emotions. And I'm like, kwame is fine to have emotions. You're a human. And you're like, I'm not a human. And I'm like, but you are, though. Is that a blind spot? Would you call it a blind spot?

It's certainly something.

Yeah, it's something. So that is a big one. Like, not wanting to acknowledge your. Your humanness and the fact that humans do have emotions and it's okay to have emotions and to be honest about them.

Have you seen any improvement in that area over our relationship?

Absolutely. When you started getting therapy. Do you not want me to answer these questions?

No, I do want you to answer the questions. I don't know. I don't have. Why? On my podcast that are married to me. Okay, so, like, this is a new experience, and I'm responding with awkward laughter. Let's go to another question. This one is from Aramide. So Aramide Says, what is one negotiation skill or tactic that is helpful for better parenting?

So I think different stages of children, the answer may be different. But giving the child the choice of this versus that, when you know that both of those things need to be done, like do you want to brush your teeth first or do you want to take your bath first? Both of those things are going to get done. But giving them the choice of what order to do it in helps them to feel like they have more control. And a lot of times for kids, that's one thing is like they, they get told what to do all the time. So giving them, you know, the ability to control something is really a, you know, a gift for them, a plus. They really like it. Yeah, there's probably other stuff, but I found that one especially for like 3 or 4 year olds where they're really trying to assert their independence and test the boundaries. But you still need to brush your teeth. Think you still need to take a bath.

Nice options do work really well. I'm going to take a spin on Patrick Tinney's question here because he wanted you to ask me how would you rank my top two negotiation personality styles? But I'm going to turn this on you. When you think about yourself as somebody who's a communicator, when you think about your style, when are you at your best and when are you at your worst?

I'm at my best if I have gotten rest and I have my basic human needs taken care of. So if I'm not hungry, if I'm not sleepy, if I'm not in pain, I'm going to be a better communicator and I'm going to be a better listener and I'm going to be more patient if I am tired, if I am hungry, if, if there's something that is bothering me physically, if there's something that's bothering me emotionally or like mentally, something is going on. I'm not going to be a good communicator, I'm not going to be a good listener.

I'm going to revisit a question that I asked you a couple weeks ago. Oh. Have you noticed that in our relationship I am at least, I'm at least trying to be more relaxed, more go with the flow, more chill and less argumentative. Yes. Oh my God.

I'm just trying to figure out from what date to what date you're talking about. Yes. Yes, I have noticed that.

I'm interested to know, like, tell me about your date specificity. That's fascinating to me.

Have. Has anybody called Kwame's phone and let it ring to go to voicemail?

First of all, everybody knows that voicemails and emails and mails, just mailing me things, those are all acts of aggression.

But you own a business, so you're gonna. You're gonna receive correspondence.

I do.

So you have to deal with that. That's just a fact of life. You can't ignore voicemail, email, and snail mail.

I never said I ignored it.

You literally said on your voicemail that you don't listen to voicemail. And then, like, your best friend, your mom, and your wife were like, yeah, that's not a good look. You probably shouldn't say that on your voicemail. Greeting as a professional.

How. How is this an answer to my question of. Oh, I see. Oh, I see. You're saying this is me being stubborn and not adjusting. Okay, don't. Don't respond with that tone that. That tone that you just did. Yeah, okay, fine. But I did change my voicemail. I changed it.

His voicemail now says, because my family wants me to have a voicemail.

I'm.

Gonna have this voicemail. But I still don't listen to voicemail unless it's an emergency or something like that.

I like to be honest. Okay, so I have it. I made that adjustment. Okay, so I guess. So I'm not as flexible and compliant as I thought. Is that the message I should take away from this?

Yeah, but we're all, you know, we're all, you know, learning and growing and evolving every day.

Which brings us to a great question to wrap up with. This is from my friend Lucia, who says, and I quote, ask her how she puts up with you. Curious minds want to know.

Oh, my gosh, Lucia, thank you for this question. Boo boo. Patience of job, and, you know, just looking at the. The faces of my children and saying, man, these are some cute kids. We made these kids together. Let's give them the best life with both parents in the house and you know, just choosing to. To love you every day and, you know, forgiveness and remembering this. This. I mean, all of that is true, but this is really something I think about all the time, remembering kind of our foundations and how. How we were before we had kids, how we were in undergrad. And I have this picture from. I think it's on Facebook where we were somewhere studying in undergrad. And your face is like. It was taken on my laptop. You know how it has the camera. You, like, put your head over the top of it, and the laptop is in front of Me. And so your head is kind of hanging down the top of the picture, and then I'm looking up at you like this. And I just looked really happy that we were spending time together and that you were my boyfriend and just remembering moments like that where we made each other really happy. In times when it's very difficult and I'm tired and the kids won't sleep, and you're traveling, and you left the toilet seat up, and your socks are in the middle of the floor, and you left your plate on the table without taking it to the kitchen to clear it.

But I don't travel that much.

You traveled last week, and you're traveling again on Wednesday.

But then I'm here for, like, a month.

Is that true?

Yeah, 100%. And I got, like, a month. Like, it's. It's like the 22nd.

Okay.

That's like more than a month here. But this year has been kind of wild, so.

But, yeah, I just remember. I just remember our history. I remember. I look at our kids, I think of our future, and I also think of the fact that I also am an imperfect human. So I get on your nerves, too. And we put up with each other.

That's good. I like that answer. I like that answer. Yeah, that's a good answer. Now let me ask you some questions.

Oh, I thought that's a. You said to wrap it up.

I don't know. I'm enjoying this more than I thought.

Okay.

And this is a Julia question, actually. What? Julia asked, like, a million questions.

Julia, you have good questions, great questions.

What hopes do you have for your future together?

I hope to grow old together, but, like, be, like some really ripped older people. So grow old, but still, you know, lift weights at the gym, because I see some old people at the gym, and they. They're still at it, so there's that. And I want to travel the world together, and I want to. We haven't taken our kids on any international trips. We need to get that. We need to get on that. So. Yeah. Travel with the family.

Yeah. I'd like to take you on these trips because I'm. I'm on the road, like, every week, you know? Oh.

Oh. I don't. I don't travel too much. Remember, you said that a few minutes ago.

Yeah.

And then you just said, I don't. I don't travel too much, but I'm on the road every week.

Yeah, that's not too much. It's just frequent.

It's not like one day per week. It's like Three or four. That's like half of the week every week.

It'd be great if you could come on these trips, though. Yeah, that'd be nice. So that could be a future. Quit me on the road.

Yeah. And our kids.

Yeah. Also give us feedback on this podcast that I was afraid to do for almost a decade. It is officially going to be, like, the longest podcast we've ever done.

I feel like people aren't going to listen to it because it's really just us talking.

Yeah. Let us know. You could be like, hey, man, I.

Didn'T learn anything from this podcast.

Never again. Never again. We just want you for the. The tips.

Yeah.

You know, so, you know, I accept all feedback. Just don't leave a bad review. Just tell me.

Just send. Just send a message.

Send a message.

Don't mess up his stats.

Yeah.

People, please. If you. If you really are a fan, could.

You imagine if somebody made it this deep in an episode? They're like, man, four stars. No, no, don't do it. Just don't review. Cool. So what do you see your future looking like professionally? Because it sounds like you're working a lot, and you would probably want to change that.

You're so funny, because I know why you're asking this question.

What?

Yeah, I work full time now, and I wouldn't mind being part time so that I could spend more time with my husband and my children and travel more. So I see that happening at some point. I'm not sure when I thought of maybe traveling and practicing medicine in different places we travel if I could be of service somewhere else, but I don't really know all the rules surrounding that since, you know, medical licenses don't travel across states, so. Yeah.

Nice. Well, yeah, I think that's great. And. Well, we'll do our best as a. As a community of global negotiators, me and the people listening to try to create that lifestyle for you. So I'll try to make that happen and buy some more of your time back. And who knows, maybe you could be on more podcasts. Oh, let's. Let's demo this. This idea that we came up with last year, Whitney and Kwame doing a.

Podcast, is that not what we've been doing this entire time?

This is a single episode. I'm talking about creating a show, you and me. You remember that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was going to be traveling.

Yeah. It was going to be about, like, us being busy professionals, finding time to, like, you know, still be lovers and friends and be parents and travel and have Fun and things like that, but also, like, conjoining that with, like, a more robust YouTube presence.

Yeah.

So, yeah, if there's any interest in that, let us know. I promise I'll be less awkward. I can't wait to get back to, like, a normal episode where I can, you know, sound smart again.

Did I make you nervous, girl?

I'm always, like, never nervous.

I'm always, never nervous.

English is my language. Crushing the English today.

But anyways, thanks for listening to the Negotiate Anything podcast. We'll catch you in the next one.

Say you say like and subscribe and stuff.

Like, subscribe and leave a comment. Five stars only, though.

What a noob. You don't like a podcast. You just said.

You just said, say like and subscribe.

It was a trick.

Literally said that it was a trick.

And you fell for it. And. And it's quite sad.

So you know what's going to happen, though?

What?

I got a taste of this. I'm going to make my own podcast and I'm going to have more listeners than you. I'm going to steal your listeners. They're going to stop listening to your podcast. They're going to come over to mine.

It's funny because you've started a podcast like, 18 different times.

No, I've started a podcast twice, and I just didn't have time to dedicate to actually putting out regular episodes.

How many episodes did you record?

3.

The people want to hear it. Okay, let's get it started. But anyways, everybody subscribe and leave a five star review on Negotiate Anything. Or just, you know, wait for a normal episode and feel that one out and then leave a review after listening to an episode that's actually, like, about negotiation. But thanks for coming on the show. I know it's late for you.

How do you know it's late?

How do I know it's late?

Oh, he's talking to me. Thanks for coming on the show. I thought you were talking about the listeners. Like, you don't know what time they're listening to this.

I looked at the clock.

Let's go ahead. Simone, no.

Simone. Simone, don't edit it.

That means. That means.

Cut that out. We should get, like, a clean end.

It is late, though.

Let me get a clean ending. All right, everybody really appreciated you spending this. You see, this is the stuff that people don't like. Right there.

That's really loud.

That was really loud.

All right, back up.

All right, everyone, can you stop?

I'm not doing anything. I'm just watching you.

All right, all right.

Everyone.

You are the worst. Just let me finish, okay? Let me let my team break. Everybody, everybody.

Thank you. Just finish it. I'm trying to do it with you.

You could just do it. You want to close it out?

I don't want to. I want you to do it.

All right, everybody, thanks.

Thank you. Okay, I'm walking away. I'm not gonna mess with you anymore. Okay, Go ahead.

All right, everybody. Thank you for bearing with us during that episode. We appreciate you, and people have been asking for it. I hope you liked it, and I'll catch you in the next one. Congratulations. You've just joined an elite club by listening to a full episode. You're now officially on on the Negotiate Anything team. So welcome aboard. What most team members do is they subscribe to the podcast because that allows them to automatically get the latest episodes of the show. The best things in life lie on the other side of difficult conversations. Keep learning, keep practicing, and keep getting better. Your relationships will improve, your career will soar, and you'll have the confidence you need to get the most out of these crucial conversations. Again, thank you for joining the team. We're excited to have you, and I will see you in the next episode. I'll catch you later.