Building the Perfect O- Line Athlete: Center

Welcome to the OLP Lounge. I am LeCharles Bentley, and I'm joined by the one and only Mr. Taylor Boggs, former NFL center guard and now turned martial artist, at least in his mind. Now we're going to get right into today's topic. It's going to be a continuation of the first video that you saw, which was building the perfect offensive line athlete. I thought I did a pretty good job at least setting the foundation on what your traits are when you're considering what greatness constitutes in relative to building, you know, what we think is a great player. But now we're gonna get right into centers. No, no, no, not yet, not yet. We're gonna get right into centers and we're gonna go through those same respective traits and we're gonna identify players in today's game that we feel reflect the most idealistic traits to build the most perfect offensive line athlete. But you remember what I said about that linchpin trait? Well, with centers, we're going to identify the linchpin trait and the player in today's game that we believe embodies that key element that separates centers from guards and ultimately tackles as well. Now it needs to be noted Taylor has not seen my list and I have not seen his list. So if this gets a bit animated, I apologize, but you know, that's kind of like how we want it to go. I wanted to be a bit surprised, he wanted to be surprised. I think if we would have exchanged notes prior to this, it just would have came off as, uh, authentic as it could be and hopefully is it going to be. So right now I got my list ready, he's got his list ready. We're gonna dive into the first trait, which is strength, and without further ado, today's player when it's talking about centers, building the most perfect offensive line athlete, who you got?

For strength, I got Cody Whitehair, Chicago Bears.

Okay, alright, alright, tell me about it, which is why?

So, I have a standard for centers. Okay. I want to see them move people backwards.

Okay.

It doesn't happen anymore. I think there's more of an art to it where, you You know, they go to reach someone, they lose some ground, and then they grab the angle and then they kind of move them. Well, when I was picking the guys I liked and I looked up to, which was ultimately you— I don't like you so much now, but back then I liked you— and then Olin Kruse, when you guys hit people, they went backwards and they were strong. You were two different sizes, two different games, but you ultimately moved guys on the angle. So that was my standard. When I watched Cody, And I hate the dead ball snap. It's a dang shame. That should be 6 if we're being honest. Okay, but when he hits people, they go backwards. He doesn't have to, you know, hit that loop and then finish them. When he hits people, they go backwards.

So he's strong. Okay. Okay. I give him that one. I'll let that one ride. I agree with you there. I went a different direction. And typically, you know, many people don't talk good about this offensive line. And I think rightfully so.

I already know where it's at.

You already know where I'm going.

Is it in the Pacific Northwest? Yes, it is.

Okay. Yes, it is. But Justin Britt, to me, is the guy that embodies strength. And I say that because he came into the league and I don't think he was very good. You know, he played right tackle or guard and nothing he did was really at a high level relative to performance. But, even in the most awkward of positions, he always found a way to get the job done. The skill may not have been there, but he found a way to get the job done. Now, I think what's happened is the closer he's moved to the ball, the skill may not be there as much as you'd like it to be, as consistently, as consistently as you'd like it to be. But even when he finds himself in those awkward positions, he seemingly is able to get himself out of them and now play at a solid level. He's a solid football player. He's a guy that I think Seahawks can build around a bit more. I don't think he's the guy that you're looking to replace by any stretch of the imagination, but I do believe that, you know, he's not where you would want a player to be at the center position relative to skill. But within that offense, what you're asking your center to do and for where he's at in terms of his abilities, I think his strength is what I would call elite in today's NFL.

I agree, because even, even at the other positions, you'd be like, okay, there was things he struggled with, the tackle and guard. But when he, he did, like, he can catch someone on that angle.

He catch you.

Yeah, yeah, yes, you're going for a ride. For a ride. And when he moved into center, like, immediately, like, wow, this is something to it.

Yeah. Okay, good. All right, let's keep this thing going. Power, who you got? For power?

I got my guy, Pat O'Flynn.

Okay. All right. I thought you would have went Cody Whitehair here, though.

See, and this is the interesting thing. I think some of the better centers in this league right now, like if you were to say the top, they do embody all of these traits.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? And I'm like, I had to kind of justify, you know, Cody and Pat. Kind of similar games, and I think both— one, they're both strong and they're both power, so I was like, it's almost a coin toss.

Fair enough.

But, uh, you know, when he, when he gets in space and stuff like that, when he gets in the second level, he's able to keep moving people. So he, you know, both of them move smooth in space. Yeah, but they both— and they— so I mean, like, the strength and power, to me, though, Pat Elfine and, uh, Cody Whitehair in the same division do exemplify those traits better than anyone in there. Damn near interchangeable.

All right, I got Pat O'Flynn too, but I think I have him for a different reason, uh, than you. With Pat— not with just Pat, but with centers in general— I believe centers are either good because of or good in spite of. Good because of or good in spite of. I think when I say because of it becomes one of those things where it's situational. Where it's the right guy, in the right scheme, at the right time, with the right guards next to him, with the right OC that's going to do everything they can to make that guy look good. So that's because of. In spite of is it don't matter who you line me up against, it don't matter who I'm playing next to, I'm going to play ball. And that's why I think Pat Elfline exhibits what we would want relative to power at an elite level. Because it is hard as hell in that offense, who he's playing next to, to be like, "Hey, you got that guy this week by yourself." And our entire offense is gonna be predicated on how much you can move run game, how much you can move this player.

Yeah.

In today's game, as you said earlier, we don't see that as often as it used to be, where you, I got him this week, Coach. Good. Now, with Pat, you see that kind of coming back where, hey, you got 99, you got to move that guy. And you put it on his shoulders, be it in shorten, shorten, long and short, or whatever it may be, goal line, goal first and inch, whatever the hell it is. That's the guy that you know is going to get the job done. That's why I'm going to go with Pat O'Flynn.

Yeah, and I'll be honest, like, because Pat's elite, but he's been— he bounced around so many different categories on this list. Yes. Ultimately, I ended back at power.

Thing with Pat is, in terms of overall down the road, if he stays healthy, I think he has a unique opportunity to really put himself in that echelon of truly great players that have strapped it up in this league. But that's with everybody. Can you stay healthy?

Yeah.

You know, anyway. Now we move on to skill. Who you got?

I got Weston Richburg.

Man, you stealing my notes.

You got Weston?

I got Weston too. Okay.

All right.

Tell me why you got him.

Okay. So to me, I know most people don't think about this. When I see a center versus an even front, it's two threes. When they're able to create space and they stay square and they're really setting for both guys, When he does it, it's beautiful, man. It's so pretty. He just recreates— drive, pull, recreates the stance. Yeah, it's beautiful. And he's able to stay square longer than any center. He's able to create more space and depth than any other center in the league for a long time. Like, it's not something you see. Even some of my favorite centers in the past, they just kind of turned and went off on something. But he, you know, TTs, he shuts that down, you know. So the skill— Weston and Paspo are beautiful.

Well, you stole everything I was gonna say.

Okay.

That's exactly why I went with Weston, as you said. That's the hallmark to me of a great center, someone that can stay square. The longer that you can do it, the better you are relative to your peers in the game. But the thing with Weston that I think that gives him that unique ability is this. Most really good centers, have played guard. He came in the league as a freshman or rookie and started as a guard. The, the experience you have as a guard, obviously working with a bit more space, you then take that experience and that knowledge and then you implant it at center and you see the game differently. You understand and respect the value of space. You understand how to operate and maneuver through space, but when you're just a center, you never truly appreciate how difficult it is from tackle or guard. You're so used to playing in this phone booth, but with someone like Weston, I think he's taken that experience as a guard and then put it in, into the center position and taken it to a whole new level.

Yeah, and then the impressive thing is, what, what guard do you normally see a center move to? What side?

Left side. Hold on, say that again now.

No, when you're a center that has to play guard or gets to play guard, you go to right guard.

You go to right guard. Yeah, right guard.

You're with the left, so I think that just made it even.

Yes, great point.

You know, when you see centers pass that left, they look a little funny because the right hand's there.

That's a very good point. Alright, that one part about centers that everybody loves talking about, Football IQ. I know who you're gonna say. I know who you're gonna say. Don't try to change it now. Go ahead, man. Who you got?

Well, hold on. Okay, if I'm going back in time, I had Mango. So who would I have today that I think is kind of similar to that, if you know what I'm gonna say?

I think you're gonna go Alex Mack.

Nope.

Really?

No, I went Travis Frederick.

Okay, okay. Why?

You know, so when he was a rookie, I was in the preseason, like, um, what was that, 2013 was his rookie year?

You know, I'm terrible, but I'm terrible with dates and remembering stuff like that.

I don't know Anyways, we kept playing. We were playing the same teams that Dallas was playing in the preseason. So we kept watching Alex— or Alex Mack, I'm sorry. We kept watching Frederick and he was just passing off games and stuff. It was just for a rookie, it was next level. And I was like, you know what? I could tell right then that he'll be a good player. Yeah. And I was like, you know what, man? He's already— he's a center. He's over here making points that probably no one— no one knew why as a rookie. Okay. But he knew why.

Okay. I went in a completely different direction. And part of this is probably because he's a Cleveland guy. So everybody you know from Cleveland is smart as hell. Would you agree? No, no.

Okay.

Of course, Jason Kelce to me is what you'd want. Number one, in a football player overall, and then number two, relative to football IQ. I think he's the guy that sets the standard. When I watch him play, first off, I kind of go back a little bit with him. He's always been the guy that's been undersized. He's been— and I hate that term— but he's been the guy that's been undersized, undervalued, underappreciated. A guy from Cleveland that plays at the University of Cincinnati— with all due respect to UC, and I know they got some new coaches down there and they're changing some things around, I respect that. But many Cleveland kids aren't chomping at the bit to be a Bearcat. You want to go to Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State. You want to maybe stay in that region. But for him, I think that his experience relative to recruiting and being the proverbial underdog, he's always had to do more and be more. He got into the league, unique situation. Now I'm not sure of how his career would have been had he been in a different place.

I don't know, but it doesn't matter at this point.

At this point. But what we know is this: he's taken this opportunity and turned it into a Pro Bowl career, multiple Pro Bowl careers. So with that said, when you watch him play, everything falls around what he's doing, how he's calling out the mics or seeing what's happening with the safeties. He's seeing things before it happens. And you look at between Foles and Wentz, you know, that interchangeable quarterback position for them What's been the most consistent has been him. And I think that's what's been a hidden competitive advantage for that offense. It's been one of the most prolific offenses the last couple of years in the NFL. The most consistent offenses. But it hasn't been at the quarterback position. They got two good players.

Yeah.

But they have a great player and someone in my opinion that really embodies the idea of football smarts that's able to get, hey, oh, we got a new guard this week. I got him covered. Oh, we got a new tackle this week. I got him covered. Don't even worry about it. We're going to go out here and play ball. And I think that Kelsey, to me, really takes it to a whole new level. My opinion. Now, somebody may disagree. And you know, you like Frederick. I like Frederick too. And I agree with what you're saying. But I think with Dallas, they have so much consistency. —kind of around the board. They do. And you kind of fall into a really good situation, and I think that helps. But with Kelce, man, you overcome so much and then turn his career into what it has been. I gotta go with my man Kelce. And like I said, he's from Cleveland, so what else is left? So speaking of that, work capacity. You know, Cleveland guys work. These guys aren't from Cleveland that I went with. But I'm gonna give you mine first. Okay, I'm gonna switch it up. I'm gonna give you mine first.

Gonna throw me off here.

I'm gonna throw you off, man. I'm going with the Pounceys. Oh, both of them? Both of them. Both. B-O-F-F-E. Both of them. Yeah, okay. Well, here's why I'm going— first off, they've been separated since birth, so they've been together the whole time, their whole life. Why am I going to start now? But you look at, uh, how they play the game. From the first quarter to the last quarter, those guys play with an attitude. They play with a level of consistency that it only comes through having ideal work capacity. I look at Marquise Paulsey in Pittsburgh. His rookie year was his best year.

Maybe the best— Meh! —of any center.

Between him and Pat Elflein. In my opinion. Rookie centers? Yeah. It would be 1 and 2. Yeah. You know, in terms of rookie centers, 1 and 2. I agree, I agree. But I probably would give the edge to Marquise. I mean, what he did his rookie year was what in the hell? Yeah. Then you follow it up with consistent high-level play. He hasn't really fallen off. He's gotten better. Better in certain areas where it comes with age and time. He sees the game differently. He's had consistency around him as well. And I think that he's matured on and off the field. But even coming off of that recent ankle injury, I thought he was gonna be done with his career. But he changed his game. Yeah. He changed his game, but he didn't lose that edge. He didn't lose that fight. He didn't lose that willingness to go from, as I said, that first quarter to the fourth quarter. At a high level. So when I look at him and his brother, I see the exact same thing. Obviously from the physical aspect, but also on the field, I see the exact same thing. And that's why I respect those guys, uh, because when they, when they strap up, they're bringing it.

Yeah, so I wouldn't argue that. I mean, they're on my list and I kind of had them as a pair too, but okay. But not for that, um, I went with Kelce on work capacity.

And I know, like, but like I said, he's only 2A.

He's only 2A. Yeah, right. So Like, that's what everyone says in here. Like, if I was beating him in a workout, yeah, but you're only 280. Why would you— but I'm like, okay, but he's also battling guys much larger than him, and he shows up all game, and he's pulling, and he's running, and he's finishing. That's a great point. So yeah, Kelsey.

That's a great point. Okay, I give you that one. I actually had Kelsey in another place, and Brother CJ Davis talked me out of it. I had Kelsey with Attitude. But I took him off that and I went with Ryan Jensen. Now, okay, yeah, I'm not a, uh, big fan of his game, just to be very frank. I think there are holes in his game, but the one area in his game that has been consistent has been how he's approached it. Some will say that dude's an asshole, and you know what, He is. And you know what? I love it. Yeah, good for him.

Good for him. Good for him.

Now, I wish that his game was more complete. And if his game was more complete, I think we'd be talking about a completely different caliber. I don't care about contracts. Oh, he's got paid. I don't give a damn how much they paid him. I don't care. You turn the film on, there's holes in your game. Now, with that said, if you were to fix those holes in the game, and you pair that with something that I think is missing in many offensive line athletes in today's game, we're talking about him potentially being in that top 2, 3 of this era. Yeah. In my opinion. I agree with that. Because the way that he approaches it, I know he's a D2 guy, I know, I think he was like 230 pounds when he was recruited, played tackle, and you know, he had to figure out how to play this game with a mentality because he wasn't going to get it done physically. But as his body matured, he never lost that edge. He never lost that, "I've been cut. I'm hungry. I'm trying to get this thing done." And even after he got paid down there in Tampa, he still brought that same attitude. Still finishing. And that is something that we see far too often. A guy gets paid, they shut it down. If anything, he got paid and he turned it up. So that's why I respect him as a football player. I respect how he goes about handle his business on Sundays, but I think there are holes in his game. I wish those holes were corrected, and if you were, we'd probably be talking about him, as I said, top 1, 2, 3 of this era.

Yeah, I love that D2 attitude, you know. I love when it shows up, you know, because a lot of times D2, you get nervous, like you get overwhelmed. So I can empathize with that, but I'd like to see it show up. So his showed up. It shows up. So I did for Attitude, the Pounceys. And originally I had it as Marquise. CJ was like, well, what about Mike? Because CJ was a bigger Mike fan. I can't get Marquise's rookie year out of my head. Okay. That was hard for me to get out of. So I'm like, you know, he was finishing guys. He was just 4 quarters, all that stuff, you know, fighting with guys. I saw him clean up some of the harder hitting linebackers and he just, you know, stand over them and be like, what's next? That's true. So, and I think Mike brought the same thing. I even like Mike a lot more in Chargers than his last couple years in Miami. Clearly. His attitude's never changed. They've always been ready to just fight. I like both of them. I agree.

I mean, I think when you talk about attitude, they fit in either area. So they are well respected around here. Mental resilience. I'm gonna throw you off with this one. Well, you go first then. Don't give me any trash, man. Don't mess this up, man. Who you got? This is Alex Mack. Oh, really?

What? Okay.

You did throw me off. I went Alex Mack too. Okay, go ahead. Why for you? Why for you?

Well, I think, I don't know what Josh is picking for the tackles when we do this, but I, you know, For me, I'd imagine someone like that mental resilience is someone from Cleveland, that left tackle from Cleveland.

Probably.

So you have bad team, bad team after bad team, coaches every, every year. I don't know how many O-line coaches, how many head coaches he had, how many quarterbacks he had. And he just continued to be consistent. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Great. Great. And he did that in Cleveland.

And then he goes down to Atlanta in the zone scheme, completely different scheme. And does the same thing.

I have nothing else to add. I mean, I hate to keep going back to this Cleveland thing. It's kind of ironic that smart people and mentally resilient people that either have had some type of contact with the great city of Cleveland.

Then why has it not got better? Why is Cleveland the way it is right now? It's getting better.

It's getting— they figured some things out.

They put the fire out on the lake.

It was the river, it wasn't the lake. Whatever. The river. Figure some things out. But I agree with you 1,000% with Alex Mack. You know, I have so much respect for him. I went a little bit different, uh, there's a little bit different, uh, direction. When you're a first-round pick, and it was at one point in time said that Alex Mack was the best center prospect in 1,000 years, we've never seen anything like this kid, and he— and I would watch him in college, I'm like, he's good, but I didn't see all of what people were saying about him. I thought he was a very good college player. Now, you get drafted, especially to a city like Cleveland, in that division, with so many 3-4 teams, them big heavy nose guards. This is when Haloti Ngoto was still like really, really good.

That division was scary, bro. It was scary.

You bring this kid in out of Cal that I didn't think was going to be as consistent and as ready as he was. But then he gets in there and he shows up. And he didn't start off great, but he kept getting better. He kept getting better. And even literally and figuratively, the city was burning down around him. He just kept getting better and better and better and better. And I go back to that point, being a first-round draft pick and having that type of pressure on you, and then you're in a situation where Nothing around you is going well. You got every opportunity to run. You have every excuse to be like, well, you know, everybody else sucks, so it's okay for me to suck. He didn't take that approach. Now, I don't know if it's, you know, the Joe Thomas effect, where Joe Thomas was in that same, you know, the same situation. He just kept evolving as a player as well. But then, as you just said, when he left Cleveland, he kept getting better. Yeah. He went down to Atlanta and did more than earn his contract. Hell, he's probably underpaid in many regards because he made that organization and made that team better as a center. And that's very difficult to do. And I go back to just that mental resilience part with him. It's been, to me, been the hallmark of his career. He's been so consistent. I don't think he's ever really been dominant as a center, but he's been— he's going— he should be in the Hall of Fame. Yeah. He should be in the Hall of Fame.

I agree.

Period. But with that said, he's been so damn consistent that it's almost impossible to argue against his greatness. I don't mean goodness. I'm talking about he's a great football player and in my humble opinion, one of the greatest centers in the history of the game. He would definitely be in my top 10.

Yeah, to make that point, you know, you always hear there's only one way to play the game. Well, for the individual, there's only one way for them to play the game. So like, for when I look—

I like dominant centers.

I liked you and Olin, right? And you guys played it very violently, but he played it very consistently. Yes. And that's so great. Yeah. And it's completely different.

Yeah. And that's the cool thing about centers. Yeah, in my opinion. Is that you have, it goes back to because of, in spite of. And although Alex Mack may not have been what you would call a dominant explosive player, it was still a situation where it didn't matter where you put him. He was gonna be good in spite of. In spite of being in Cleveland, in spite of not having consistency around him, in spite of moving to a new team, a new bigger contract, new demands, new stresses, He never wavered. And that's why I respect the hell out of him and his game. And I can't wait till one day he is inducted into the National Football League Hall of Fame. Well, it ain't, you know, the NFL Hall of Fame. It's Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Pro Football Hall of Fame.

That's— you know, that's going to be the next topic. We'll talk about this Hall of Fame thing. And in my humble opinion, why I don't think the media should be the only ones with the say.

No, there's some pros and there's some cons.

Let's not jump on that horse right now. We'll get to that. Last one. The linchpin. The linchpin trait that makes or separates a center from every other position and makes the center unique. It's leadership. That's that key performance linchpin.

Who did you go with? Okay, this hands down was my hardest one, right? Okay. So like I have what I believe is like the all-time leader. I think Olin was. You hear stories about it, right? Yeah. And even every Bear that kind of had their Hall of Fame speech has talked about Olin. I'm not surprised. Yeah. So, you know what I mean? That was the leader. So I'm like, okay, that was, that was kind of my standard. I started going towards Travis Frederick and I, and I'll tell you why. Because in this, this year he got in a fight in training camp. You remember the big brawl? Yeah. And their All-Pro guard even jumped in. Mm-hmm. So I was like, okay, that shows like they're looking at him like— Respected. There's a respect, right? That's that leader. And then I started going in a completely different direction. I was like, you know what? I used Travis and I kind of feel bad because there's some good centers that I didn't know how to fit in this. I think like Linder in Jacksonville, I didn't know how to fit him in these traits, but I think he's a really good center. And then I was like, well, you know what? There's someone that's quietly just been consistent. And I— when he was in KC.

Oh, no, don't tell me we got the same guy. Go ahead, go ahead. We got the same guy. Was it Hudson? Rodney Hudson.

Okay, so I'll tell you why though, because he, when he was in KC, he had so many people around him. Yes. That I believe a lot of people got big contracts because of him. Thank you.

Look, I mean, so you know, I'm not— you see some names here.

Those people got paid.

Those people got paid because we're not gonna say the names.

But we didn't see them go, they didn't have the same success in KC next to Rodney Hudson. No. And even when he's in, now he's got players around him and stuff like that, but he's just been consistent. So I'm like, to me, he's a leader.

Man, my thing with centers is can you make the people around you better? Right. I think that's the embodiment of leader, being in business, being in life, being in parenting, whatever it may be. Can you make the people around you better? When I look at him, he's never had truly great players around him early in his career. Not in KC. Not in KC. But he got the most out of those players. Hell, these are notes for a reason, so yes, we're gonna talk about it. Yeah. When I look at Jeff Allen, Jeff Allen was really good in KC.

He was a very interesting free agent to hit the market too, because you were like, "You gotta get him." Hit the market?

And you would want him. Yeah. And I think Jeff Allen's a good football player. Me too. But Jeff Allen was not the same player without Ronnie Hudson. Yeah, I agree. Jeff Schwartz?

Those were the best 8 games of his life.

The best 8 games of his career. Yes. And he got paid relatively speaking, by the Giants. And I have to say, partly because Rodney Hudson. Yeah. Now, oh, those are just two maybe one-offs. He leaves, new team, new big contract, significant contract, and he goes out to the Raiders. Then they bring in Kelechi. Kelechi. And now you put him next to Gabe Jackson. Gabe Jackson. 2 guys that with, let's go with the first one. Kelechi throughout his career, he's been a bit rogue. You don't know what you're gonna get. When he was in Baltimore, you did not know what you're gonna get. Is he a good football player? Yes! Will he tear you out the frame? Yes! But he's inconsistent. Yeah, cause if you look at him in Baltimore versus Yonder.

Thank you. You know what I'm saying?

There was something there. Right. Now I know he had some injuries with his back and this, that, and other. But even still, there was something there. He's not there. He ended up with the Raiders. But when he got to the Raiders, woo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo! Woo!

It looked illegal. It looked illegal! Like, that's terrifying.

Like, the dude that you would see in Baltimore every now and again, you saw it nearly every single snap.

And it was like, yo, what are they feeding this dude? It's like every game was like a highlight film of pancakes. Yes!

Then you look at Gabe Jackson. I think Gabe, huh?

I'm a fan of him.

I'm a fan. Yeah. But I think Gabe had an opportunity to go this way or that way in his career. What I mean by left or right, he could have been the guy that probably ate himself out of the league. Just to be very blunt with it. But I look at him and I watched him mature. I watched him grow as a player. And I have to believe that part of his on-field maturation and off-field maturation has been partly because of Rodney Hudson's influence. I'm not sure if Gabe Jackson would have earned, which he earned every penny of that new contract. Yeah. About 2 years now, maybe a year or so. Yeah, he definitely earned it. He earned that contract. But I firmly believe Rodney Hudson played a role in that. And I also firmly believe that the Raiders paid Caleci so much money because they knew the level of leadership he was going to be surrounded by. When people start talking about free agency, there's so many other elements that go into it outside of, are you a good player or not? No, it doesn't matter. You have to fit within this scheme. You have to fit within this locker room. And I think that the Raiders organization looked at someone like Coletti and was like, look, how do we get this guy that we see every now and again to show up all the time? I think Rodney can pull this out of him. I think this might be something here that, you know what, there's gonna be a standard set and Rodney's gonna set that standard. And I think if you challenge him, and I know that you challenge Kelechi, he will show up. Let's put him here and pay him this money. I guarantee you we get our return on that investment. And they've gotten that return on the investment. But then you look at this. Kelechi is hurt, Gabe is, you know, hurt. So you've had a couple of times this year where They had 2 new guards. Dudes that you've never heard of.

And 2 new tackles too. And 2 new tackles.

You've had dudes you've never heard of, but he's been the consistent cog in the middle. And most, yeah, the Raiders sucked. Like, that's not even a debate. The Raiders were horrible. But outside of some hit or miss performances with the O-line side, And I think there's some other systemic issues that you have to look at. Systemic, you like how I use that? Systemic issues. But I don't believe that you can never point to that offensive line room and say that all of the issues were coming from the players. No, no, no. It wasn't because of the standard that was set in the room by the players, leading with Rodney Hudson.

Yeah, dude, 'cause I watched the last 3 games I can't think of his name. The guy, he got released from Indy. He went on to play really good ball next to Rodney Hudson.

Go figure. And I'm like, did Rodney do it again? He did it. This dude's a wizard.

And we don't— that's like, he doesn't really get talked about. I mean, he's paid as an elite. He's kind of like that Alex Mack, very consistent, you know what I mean? I never looked at him as like a straight killer. He was my class. Okay. So was, um, Kelsey. Okay. But like, so You know, I'm not like that hater type, so I root for my class. So, but he's, he's just been, he's like Mac, you know, just consistently good and always gets his job done. But it's something about the fact that guys have made money around him.

If you even go back and you do a little reading on him from college through high school, every coach and one coach in particular, Coach Trickett, who's notorious for being, let's just say, tough on players. Rodney had committed to West Virginia when Coach Trickett was at West Virginia. Coach Trickett leaves West Virginia and goes to Florida State. Rodney decides that he's not going to follow Coach Trickett to Florida State. Now, I don't know how Rodney Hudson feels about Coach Trickett today, but everything I've read, I know this: Coach Trickett respects the hell out of Rodney Hudson. He talked about the idea of, with some of the rookies or the freshmen that they would have, or some of the underclassmen, he would say, "Look, go talk to Rodney. Hey Rodney, take these guys." And us knowing Coach Trickett's history, you have to be that kind of person. Forget football. The kind of person that he respects at a high enough level for him to allow you to have that type of voice in his room. So when I read that, It really solidified what I kind of began to think about him in terms of leadership skills and obviously his football ability as well. When I read that, I said, "Okay, this is that dude." And you look at the players he's seemingly getting paid.

Yeah. This is a tough one though. Lynchpin for the center because you don't, it's not like, um, O-line voids the media and stuff like that. So you're not like getting the stories. I feel like, you know, you heard the leadership stories, especially like a decade ago, more like you heard about the linebackers and which linemen. Yeah, but it's kind of quieted down. So you kind of had to—

But you got to navigate it. But all you really got to do is watch the film. The film. Yeah, right. To me, the film tells you 99% of the battle. I know. But what about the PFF scores? I don't know what his PFF score is.

I don't know what that means. I'm sorry.

Was I speaking Chinese? Pretty much. Okay, got it. So that said, I don't give a damn about all that stuff. I just care about this. When I turn the film on, what is the film saying to me? Yeah, I agree. What is the film? The film speaks to you.

And that's what we're saying years now, right?

But you gotta know. But that's, the film has a unique language. If you can't speak that language, you start looking for algorithms. Algorithms not gonna give you the ins and outs of what you really need to know about a football player. When you watch Rodney Hudson on film, his leadership speaks to you. His respect in the locker room, it speaks That to you. speaks to you, but you gotta know what you're looking for. And there's no algorithm that's gonna tell you that part. But anyway, with that said, it's been fun, brother. Yeah. It's been fun. I'm disappointed. Why?

They were so similar. I'm trying to, I don't like to agree with you all the time.

Oh, you know what that means, man?

It means I need to look elsewhere. I need to stop hanging around you.

You know what this means, man? Birds of a feather. So you're welcome. You're welcome. I've had this kind of influence on you. With that said, we're gonna come back and we're gonna dive into guards next. CJ's going to be with us, right? CJ's with the guards. CJ's going to join me for guards, and this is going to be fun. Then we're going to come back and hit tackles, and then we're going to hit tight ends, and wide receivers. No, we're not.

No, we're not.

We're not going to do all that. I'm just joking. We're going to stick to the O-line in this aspect, and I hope you continue to enjoy these. And leave a comment down below and let us know what your thoughts are. Who do you disagree with? I mean, respectfully. I mean, this is just football talk at the end of the day. You ain't got to, "Man, you stupid. You don't know what you're talking about." Maybe I don't. Maybe you know better. Maybe you wanna come down here to OLP and you can sit in our studio with us and you can come on, at your own expense though, you're more than welcome to come down and have a good time with us. But just let us know what you think, maybe you got a different opinion on something and we definitely will get into the comments and love to banter back and forth with you. But stay tuned for what's coming up next, enjoy this, peace.