14: Property Nerds Unite!!! Joint Ventures, Renovating & Developing with Karen Young

Did you know with just two investment properties and one single renovation that you could put over a million dollars in the bank? It's true. And why stop there? Welcome to your Property Success podcast, the show that explores the practical steps to making your property investment dreams a reality. And now here's your host, a lady who, on her first day of work had 300 men walk out in protest. Jane Slacksmith, is that true?

Yes, it is. Oh, my gosh, I'm gonna show my age now. But back in 1989, legislation had just been changed to let women work underground in New South Wales coal mines. And I turned up and incidentally, a friend of mine turned up and another mine just down the road the same day. They were a lot nicer to her, but the 300 guys at my mine went out on strike and had a few hours of Deb. The issue of having a female underground because it was considered unlucky.

Really?

Yes. I wasn't expecting it, I'll put it that way. But it was one of those things that, I guess, you know, when you're doing things that others haven't done before, you kind of roll with the punches.

Run up against a few Roblox.

Yeah. The thing is, if it was based on logic or fact, I could counter argue anything, but it was based on superstition. And these guys legitimately thought that I would create something, some type of safety issue.

And of course, they went on to accept you eventually and you went on to be a star.

Oh, my gosh.

I wouldn't put it that way. But I had a lot of fun and I made a lot of friends and we were all good mates at the end of it. Yeah, that's good. So, yes, it was a long time ago, but, you know, I did start at the coal face and. But we have a wonderful episode, episode 14 of the youe Property Success Podcast. And can I just say, we've had a great, great milestone.

Yes, 100,000 downloads, which by our standards is very, very good.

Yeah, we sit here and chat and sometimes we wonder if people are listening. So when we. We did clock in and see that we've had a hundred thousand downloads in the last week or so, we were just so excited that you guys come back and. And that you're enjoying what we're saying. So we have a great episode that continuing in the same vein this week, we. With the very, very wonderful person who I think is actually podcast royalty.

Oh, yeah, definitely. Karen Young, host of Everyday Property Investing Podcast. One of the very first property investing podcasts way back in 2011, I think it started Jane. And yeah, I had a look before we started. She's up to 117 episodes.

That is extraordinary. And you know, imagine how many people she has helped over the years with the Everyday Property Investing podcast. You know, it's such a great resource and I've, you know, been fortunate enough to be a guest on it many times.

Yes.

And she's a great host and you know, she's a very experienced property investor herself. And now a award winning buyer's agent.

Yeah. Property zest in Brisbane. And it's good because this is a subject we get a lot of questions about, you know, how can people use buyer's agents to invest in property, particularly when you're investing interstate. And there's a big difference, isn't there, between buyer's agents who buy, you know, family homes for cashed up time, poor professionals.

Absolutely.

And buyer's agents that buy kind of investment grade property.

Absolutely. Huge difference. And I'm going to ask Ulla about that. And the other thing that people often ask about is joint ventures.

Yes. Because she's done a joint venture with her friend in. It was a renovate and sell project in Brisbane.

Yeah. So we'll get all, all the information about that and some of those traps to watch out for because, you know, it can get messy and they don't always end well. And I'm also going to ask her about some of her memorable episodes and mom, her podcast and of course about being a buyer's agent. She knows all the good spots to buy in Brisbane, so we'll find out about those and I'll get her to share her best tips for someone who's just starting out today. So a huge show. Sit back and enjoy our chat with today's fantastic guest, Karen Young. Hello, Karen.

Hello, Jane. Lovely to speak with you.

I know it's just like old times, but we're reversing the tables this time.

I know, it's a bit weird, isn't it?

Well, I get to ask the questions. Well, I want to get started way back in the beginning. Cast your mind back, Karen, when did it all start for you in property?

Oh, wow. I think when I came, I lived overseas for a number of years in my twenties and when I came back from overseas, I suddenly realized I was about to turn 30 and I didn't really own anything or have anything because I spent it all while I was traveling overseas.

Had a lot of fun.

Yeah, exactly. So I thought, oh, I really need to do something. So I actually bought myself a Little unit at the time, a one bedroom unit. That's all I could afford. And I think I borrowed 95% of.

It, like we all did when we started out.

Yeah, exactly. That seemed like the thing to do. I had a reasonable job, so it was okay, I thought. Yeah, so I did that. But I didn't really do it with a lot of thought. It was really just, I need to buy something. I'll buy this thing. The agent told me to pay this much, so I'll pay that much. And I bought this little thing and I actually moved into it and had the first homeowners grant and things like that.

When was that?

Oh, golly geez, you're testing me now. I don't know, 30. So I would have been like 2002.

Okay.

And yeah, that gives away how old I am. But that's okay, I don't mind.

We're all aging gracefully.

Well, the alternative is worse. So, you know.

Exactly now. And was that in Melbourne?

Yeah, it was actually. It was in Carnegie, in Melbourne.

Lovely. So a one bedroom unit. And then what happened?

Well, it really wasn't like it wasn't a particularly intelligent purchase or anything. It was just. I did it because I could and I thought I should, so I did that. And then I just sort of. That's all I did for a while. But it wasn't really until later on when I had children and I actually started thinking I'd always been sort of interested in property, but just really, I don't know, my headspace just wasn't at the right point, I guess where people sort of get to that tipping point of I need to invest, I need to do something with my life and my future and all that sort of stuff. So it wasn't until I had children and I sort of thought to myself, I didn't really want to go back to work full time. And I just sort of was looking, thinking about the future and looking at my parents who had both retired and they were on a pension and didn't really have a lot of money. And I just thought, you know what? I don't really want to work my whole life to own sort of just one house at the end of it that I can barely pay, I've barely paid off, and that's it. And then I live on a pension. So I started thinking more seriously then about future and what I could do for myself to improve what my future would look like financially. So that's when I really started to become interested in investing and actually took some actions toward educating myself. And that was really the turning point there.

And you know, that first one bedroom unit, did you sell that and upgrade to another home or did you go straight into investments after that?

Well, no, I did. I. Let me see. I. I think we. I actually rented it out and ended up going and renting somewhere else. So it was, it became an investment property after about six months or 12 months or something.

So you became a rentvestor before it was even trendy?

I did, yeah. Yeah. I was just a trendsetter, you know, I didn't. I had to look up what rentvesting was. The other day somebody said that to me and I'm like. And that's like, it's not even. I didn't know that was a thing.

It is. It is a thing. It is. It's like smashed avocados these days. It's rent vesting, you know, hashtag.

Well, yeah, we've all been doing it for years. We just know that sort of.

Well, I did it for 10 years. It made sense to me at the time, but now we can tag ourselves. So the one bedroom unit you rented out, you rented yourself. And was it then that you thought you had to get. That was still pre children. Was it then that you thought you had to.

I was having a baby and we needed to have somewhere to live that was bigger than what we lived in. So we decided that in order to do that, and it was lucky because the, the money that I'd had put into that house and, you know, I'd had a little bit of equity gain in it, not a lot. I mean, it was just one bedroom unit and I didn't hold it for all that long, but it was enough to give us a deposit on a bigger house and that became our family home. So then we moved into that and sort of lived and then we started. You know, that's when I really started educating myself more and I went to some property investing groups and reading magazines and reading books and all that sort of thing and gosh, lots of education.

So what kind of. What were you looking for in these seminars and what kind of seminars were you going to?

You know, I think like everyone does, I was doing the free seminar circuit, I think. I love a free seminar. I think we did a whole podcast years ago on the free seminar and you know, you can get stuff out of it. You just got to be a little careful you're not sold to and, you know. But yeah, I just went to the free sort of seminars and then I actually paid and joined an investing group and they were people who, I think, you know, they made their money from mortgage broking, theoretically, but they gave you advice on how to invest and all that sort of stuff. And I read a few books by this stage that gelled with me and I thought, I really want to do that.

Joining that group though, and finding, you know, almost like that tribe of like minded people that kind of, I mean, I've found in the past, you know, just finding that group or people you can talk to, it really helps because you're not alone. Because often when you're going on these journeys of property investing, you know, you might be the forefront of adventurer in your family or group of friends.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely right. And that group really was, that's what it was for me. It was other people that I could bounce off and learn from and things like that. And that's actually where I met Den, who was the podcast host with me at Everyday Property Investing.

Tell me how that all started. That's amazing.

Yeah, look, I met Den at that investing group and we actually, him and his partner and another couple and me and my partner, we actually kind of formed a little subgroup and we would have dinner parties. This is so, so nerdy. You would love this, Jane.

I would.

You're nerdy like this too, I'm sure. Call it as you see it, property nerds unite. We would have dinner parties at each other's houses like once a month and we would rotate it between the houses and we would come along and each couple would sort of give an update on where they were at. And one couple would give like a bit of a presentation on a topic.

Oh, nice.

And literally we would do like PowerPoint presentations.

And what were you looking at? Were you, you know, long term hold investors or were you looking at developments or subdivision? What was happening at that time?

Look, we were all sort of buy and hold and I think we were all a bit focused on making sure things were relatively high yielding but were in potential growth locations. So when I first started out, that was my sort of main thing. I wanted things to be sort of cash flow neutral at the least, to cash flow positive. In hindsight though, I mean, we'll talk about this later, but in hindsight, I probably should have maybe looked at things differently back then because I had no kids or I had one kid, I had good income and things like that.

You had the ability to make the.

Difference, make the good purchases and the good blue chip locations at that point. But I didn't. But that's, you know, that's another learning. Yeah. So we were just buy and hold, looking for sort of neutrally geared good growth locations. And that was essentially it.

When did you actually start the podcast with Dan?

Gee, 2011 maybe. So it's a long time ago now. And why, when did it become a podcasting pioneer?

Oh, absolutely. Tell me, you know, you and Dan, were you sitting down one day at these dinner parties going, gosh, our chat's so interesting and we're interested each other so much, we should chat to others or where did it go?

Yeah, I think it was a bit of me because I'm an IT geek as well. So I was really interested in the technology and podcasting and websites and things like that. And I was looking at trying to morph what I was doing for a job, looking at options for the future that could involve property investing. And so I was looking at how could I build a community of people around a website and we could provide education, I could chat to people, it'd be great. We started out with the website and the podcast and the podcast was the medium to speak with people. And then I just thought I approached him as a co host because I thought he was a knowledgeable investor. He had a lot of properties and he had a lot of knowledge and he was a great person to bounce off. And I think we had a pretty good dynamic there. So yeah, that's how that all started.

So, you know, let's go back to that. You know, you had your first one bedroom unit, you found a group of like minded people, you niched it down to a certain little circle where you doing your PowerPoint presentations to each other. You wanted to create that community and share, you know, what you guys have been doing. Is it then that you started investing more in Melbourne or what happened?

Yeah, because I was living in Melbourne and so I sort of like to keep things a bit close. I like to see the properties. I hadn't really opened myself yet to interstate investing and so in the end I just ended up investing in and around Melbourne. So I bought a couple of properties down there and then I started to get interested in renovating and development. And so I actually, I did like a renovation course and that was really interesting and I loved it. So I looked for a property I could renovate and it just so happened the house I bought also was on a corner block that could be subdivided.

So by chance you actually hadn't found the perfect property to subdivide or renovate?

Well, yes and no. I mean it had its pros and cons. So we renovated that, sold it renovated, subdivided, sold the front house, kept the back block. Now I still got that back block. And that's not a great thing because that block, it's in a, you know, it's in a regional location. So it's not that. I think I sort of missed timing a little bit there. I probably took too long on the project and the things changed in that location, so I ended up sort of stuck with this block. And now it's kind of. It's still down there doing its own thing by itself. And sometimes I forget, yet I still own it. And I every now and again go, oh, I must do something with that block and, you know, put something on it, sell it, do something, whatever. But I always get too busy, so I forget I've got it.

You know what? Glamping. Try glamping.

I was thinking of gisting horses on Amazon.

Make it a revenue money maker.

Exactly.

And so, you know. So during this period of time, what were the kind of breakthroughs that you're seeing? Obviously, your property investing knowledge and research and information had matured. Were you making money as you had planned out of the properties that you were renovating, subdividing, selling, or was it still just a craft in motion that you're still learning?

Yeah, luckily I was making money out of them. Not massive money, but money. So, you know, it's good to be able to learn and not lose money, so that's a good thing. So I imagine if I was in the stock market or something, it could be the opposite. So, yeah, like, definitely all the stuff. I'm very big on, research and analysis and things like that. So I did take a lot of time and effort when I do buy a property. So even that first property I bought as an investment property, I did so much analysis. I made a spreadsheet of every suburb in Australia. I narrowed them all down. I used different criteria to do that. So I did lots of analysis early on. So every purchase I made, I made it with care and analysis. It wasn't just, except for that very first flat unit. I did do a lot of research, analysis. So, yeah, I was fortunate that I did make money out of the properties. But I look back now and think, oh, the graveyard of, you know, broken property. Dreams of those houses that got away and the different decisions you could have made. But, you know, there's no point worrying about that stuff.

Exactly. We grow and we learn, don't we?

Exactly. You learn and you move on.

So tell me about this with the podcast, because I'm interested. Being a new Podcaster myself, you know, over the years. Cause you're still podcasting. You know who were the most memorable guests that you had?

Oh, that's tough. That's really tough. Gosh, I'd have to pull up a list because I've had a lot of people on the show. I really like speaking just as more of a general answer. I really like speaking to the everyday person, funnily enough, who has done great things and it doesn't mean they've bought 300 properties and they're a multi billionaire, but the people who have just been intelligent and thoughtful about what they're doing and just made good choices that will further themselves and have had success out of that. I really enjoy talking to those sorts of people because that is in front of everybody. Because sometimes it's awesome to speak to amazing guests who have done amazing things, but sometimes that can feel so far removed to people who are listening from themselves. So I think sometimes just the everyday person is really, you know, really a good. A good thing to have on the show and to speak with. I'm just trying to think. Golly, it's just too hard to really think about it.

Well, tell me early on, were there any kind of cringeworthy interviews or problems that came up?

Yeah, look, if I go back and listen to the early days of myself, I'm a bit cringeworthy.

We're always our worst critic, aren't we?

Yes. So I tend not to listen to the early days because it's so long ago and it was like a different lifetime. But definitely like I had a couple where it was a bit like pulling teeth, you know, where your guest doesn't really speak that much or I've had a couple where the topic. And I don't want to name names because I just, I'm frightened that, you know, I don't want to offend people. But I've had some where the topic itself was actually pretty dry and boring and it was really hard to make that entertaining. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just.

Well, what about some favorites?

Look, I think. Who was it? Jo Chivers was great when I first had her on. I love speaking with Jo Chivers from the Hunter Valley. Yeah, yeah, she was really great. Obviously having you on the show, Jane, and you've been on a number of times. So you always give really good advice and information for people. So I know that those podcasts are always popular. I did a massive, I think a three part series with Troy Harris.

Yes.

On development and that I really like that because at the time I was really getting interested in development.

What's podcast done for you personally?

Oh, look, it's free consulting, isn't it?

You get to talk to really interesting people.

Don't you learn things like some of these people you pay a lot of money to speak to? So I've had just the amazing experience of being able to speak to all these people and learn stuff and then share that stuff with other people, which is, to me, that's massive. And obviously, in terms of profile, like, our business at Property Zest really started off the back of what happened with the podcast and the following that we developed from that. So, you know, obviously it's had massive impact on where I've headed in life, which has been really good.

So it's interesting, isn't it? Well, what about some advice for me as a new podcaster? What would you suggest?

I think just to consistency and commitment is the main thing. So, you know, realistically, we put the podcast out every fortnight for probably four and a half years. And I have been a bit, you know, I have lapsed a little bit in the last year or two or three, and it's. It has, you know, dropped sometimes that it's not fortnightly, and that's just purely because of capacity and for me, running.

The business life, but family business.

Yeah, exactly. So. But those first sort of three, four years, every single fortnight, we got on there and we interviewed someone or talked to someone or we chatted about a topic. And I'm pretty sure for the first couple years, I don't know if anyone listened. So I was speaking to myself, as far as I knew, because I didn't, you know, I didn't know. I really didn't know what the audience was. And I started, you know, over time, you start getting emails and you start getting people contacting you, and then you start to realize. And then you go and look at some numbers in the background and go, holy cow, look at all the people who have listened to this.

It's interesting. I was at a breakfast meeting this morning and someone came up to me and said, I love your podcast. And sometimes I sit here with John and we chat away. We're having a lot of fun and learning a lot of things from the people we're interviewing, going, gosh, I hope someone else listens to this because it's really good content. We're taking down all these notes. So let's move on to your property journey after that subdivision. What happened then? You know, I think you moved, didn't you?

Yeah, I had. I don't know what order all this happened in anymore. That's a long time ago. But we did move. So I moved from Melbourne to sort of outer country Victoria and so I kept that house that we were living in and that became another investment. Bought another one in out in Newham south, that's where we lived on the outskirts of Melbourne. We bought a holiday house as well. So that was more of a lifestyle choice and investment. But to this day it's my absolute favourite house we've ever owned because of that, I think.

And you still use it?

Well, I don't because we moved to Queensland. I mean I sort of live in a holiday destination now. So we didn't use it, you know, enough. So in the end we sold it. I've just been down to there actually, to Sandy Points last. Spent last week there. Such a beautiful place. But yeah, we don't have that one anymore. I had another property in Melbourne that after attending some development seminars I actually looked into it and worked out I could develop that property as well. So we ended up getting a DA for a three bedroom, two bathroom townhouse on the back of that property.

And was that a property that you knew was big enough to develop or it was only after you bought it you found out through.

Only when I bought it and even to this day I really don't think it was big enough to develop. But they let me do it anyway.

So what's the steps that you had to take to get that development through? So for people who are new to development, it's nothing, it's not on their radar. What do you have to do?

Yeah, look, it's tricky development. The tricky part is you don't know what you don't know. That's what I found the trickiest about development. So you've got to work out obviously what is the highest and best use of the land. So you've got to work out is it zoned appropriately? Can you put another dwelling on there? Is it set up for it? Are you going to get. Be able to get your services to another dwelling, such as, you know, your sewer and your water and your power and all that sort of stuff. So you've got.

Who helps you with that? Where would you find that information?

Yes, and that's, that's the tricky part. Engineers, town planner, different. Lots of different types of engineers.

The actual council themselves.

Yeah, the council, yeah, there's building designers or up here they call building designers. Down there I think they're called a draftsperson. Yeah. So lots of different people and that's the thing, there's no. I find that you can go to a one stop shop who can help you with development, but you're going to pay for it and therefore maybe shoot any profit in the foot for that. But you've got to kind of work out what you need to know and then what person knows about it and then go find that person. And that can be really hard because sometimes you don't know what you don't know.

And tell me, with that development, did you actually develop it yourself or did you just get the DA or the development approval through the council so that someone else could.

Yeah, we got the wind up getting the DA and then we unsold the property later on. By this point we moved. We'd moved up to Queensland. We had some properties down in Victoria. We were starting a business and we needed some capital. So we thought, okay, what are we going to do with that? And we decided to sell a couple of properties down there. So we end up, I think we sold three properties down there and kept. Kept the others. And then. Yeah, so that's. At that point I sold it with a da.

And what kind of profit can you make from the difference between actually doing the DA yourself compared or doing the development yourself as opposed to selling with a da? Do you have a feel for that?

Yeah, look, it depends a lot on the property, the location, the demand for it. So you can go and get a DA on a property, but there's no demand to develop it in that area, which means it's really not worth anything. So you've got to look into that. I looked into the options of actually developing that site myself and worked out that the profit would be small enough, that the risk wasn't worth it to me because there is a risk in every development. And I decided it just wasn't worthwhile to me and I'd rather just cut and run at that point. So with a development project, there are many places that you can exit. So you can buy a good site and get a DA and exit. You can buy a good site, get a DA subdivide and exit. You can buy a good site, get a DA subdivide, build on one, sell one, keep one. There's so many exit points and you've got to assess them all to work out which one's the most viable.

Absolutely.

So.

So you sold up, moved when you went to Queensland. I think I was talking to you at the time. Did you? Were you Airbnb for a while.

Oh, once again, this is one of those circumstances where airbnb wasn't a thing, I don't think. But we were staying in a holiday house. Yes.

Because all of a sudden you said, I'm up and going to Queensland and I'm staying in this holiday house. I was like, oh, talk about living the dream.

Yeah, we just thought we had this opportunity and we thought, yeah, let's just do this. So we hired a holiday house and I negotiated a long term lease on this holiday house for eight months. And we thought, we're gonna come up and see what we think and what it's like. So why Queensland?

What was it about Queensland that kind of tickled you at the time?

The weather. It's just the weather. The beach. I love the surf and the sun and the sand and anything to do with water. Sailing, surfing, you know, kayaking, whatever. So, yeah, it's just the outdoors lifestyle. We used to holiday up here because we've got family up here and we used to holiday where I live in Caloundra. And we just loved it. Every time we come up, we're like, this is so awesome. You know, can run outside without it being 3 degrees and freezing. And I moved. I was lucky. I had a job where I could actually work from home. So that was great. So that's how I was able to move. And so we did that for a while. But what happened, it was, I was sort of, you know, at this point feeling like I really wanted to make a change with what I was doing and somehow make property my business. Because I just, I wanted to make my passion into my business. So I was looking at different options. I was, maybe I'll be a mortgage broker or maybe I, you know, be a buyer's agent. Maybe I'll be a sales agent. I was just looking at all of the options at the time. And as it happened, I probably never would have taken the leap myself, but my company that I worked for was bought out by someone else and they laid off a lot of people. So in the end, I lost my job and I just at the same time decided I was going to start the buyer's agency and I set up the website and set up the business and I just started with, I was going to do this two days a week and I was going to do my other job three days a week and all this. But that never would have worked in hindsight. So luckily I got a push and the push was what made it all happen.

Perfect. Well, and I think, I mean, I speak to a lot of my clients and community regularly who say my passion Is property. I think it all day long. I can't wait to get home and start researching. I want to make property my business. What are the first steps that people need to take? Maybe they get a push from work or whatever, but if they're going to go. You said you looked at mortgage broking, buyer's agency, real estate agent. Why did you choose as a buyer's agent? And what were the other kind of characteristics of the other industries that didn't lend themselves to you?

Yeah, look, I don't. I just think by being a buyer's agent just fit better with what I liked about property and what I wanted. I wanted to analyze and I wanted to, you know, investigate and inspect, and I loved all that side of it. I want. I'm not a real showy salesperson, you know, you know, our business, we, you know, all businesses are in the sales business, but sales by education is a big part of our business. And I imagine yours is quite the same. And that's more of who I am. It's more true to me. So sales agent probably wasn't going to be the right thing. Mortgage broker. I actually did the course, so I am a qualified mortgage broker, theoretically.

Welcome to my world.

Yeah, not a chance. But I just couldn't see myself doing it. I actually almost got it started and then went, yeah, no, I just don't think I'm going to give this a try first. And so that's what I did. And that's. Yeah, that's where the buyer's agent came from.

Now, tell me, your first clients. How did you find your first clients?

I was very lucky because obviously I had a little bit of a profile from the podcast. So.

The podcast, you're being humble.

The podcast had been running for a number of years, and so I did have people that I could reach out to. I had people I'd interviewed on the podcast. I had professional colleagues. I had people like yourself, Jane, who were in the business. And I pretty much. That's what I did. I reached out and I said to everyone, hey, look, guys, this is what I'm doing. This is my passion. I would love to help you. And I was getting a lot of inquiries like, this is what's going on with our portfolio. And we're just wondering, should we buy this or should we sell this, or can you help us find a property? And I thought, you know what? I can. I can do that. I just reached out to all of the audience from the podcast. I let them know. I reached out to other people like yourself. I Let you guys know. And then. Yeah, I just had managed to start with a little trickle that has now become a flood, which is good.

Well, it's interesting because I know we met a few times in Melbourne and you were at one of my courses and that shared love we have, that nerdy, geeky analysis love, Excel spreadsheets of properties. And when, you know, as I said, I know one of your first clients and she said to me, check this out, and all the analysis was sitting there. I was like, you know, this is fabulous to have a buyer's agent who can, who can almost talk the investor language rather than being very specific to what homeowners want. And, you know, investors want the numbers behind the decision making that they're going to make, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars and, you know, they're trusting someone to help them make that decision. And that's what. I love that. Okay, I'm going to call it, you know, the geeking Karen isn't but you know, validating why you're looking at suburbs and things. And I think, you know, you did that so very well, which is, which is great. And why are you having a flood of business as well as the Brisbane market being so affordable?

Yeah, it's funny, you know, because when I started the business, it's. Being a buyer's agent is a funny business because there's not a lot of them around and you can't just ring them up and go, hey, how do you guys do this? So you really have to. Or we had to just come up with our own systems and processes how I was going to work. And so I pretty much did that from me being an investor and the analytical person I am, what would I want? What would I want people to give me? And, you know, there are some buyer's agents out there where you'll go and say, hey, I want to buy a property. And they'll go, okay, you need to buy in this suburb. Because I said, it's good, the end. And I would think that wouldn't sit well with me. And that's why I went, you know what I'm going to say. Instead, we do a full location analysis and we deliver people the options and we talk about the pros and cons and the different scenarios of what they could do and then let people make an informed decision because that's what I would have wanted.

Absolutely. Now tell me this. So you've moved to Brisbane. You don't really know Brisbane that well. How did you come up to speed on all these suburbs and do the analysis to know where to buy.

Once again, it's my nerdiness taking over, but I came up with a process by which I could educate myself fast and well. And so I literally, I did an analysis of the areas I would look at in certain price brackets. So I went, okay, well what are typical investors going to be looking for? What sort of numbers? And so let's say properties under 500 or properties under 700 or whatever, or high yielding versus high growth, blah blah, blah. And I identified what would all those suburbs be. So I ended up, I had a massive list of suburbs that I thought, well, it's going to be better bang for buck for me if I know these areas super well first. So that's what I did. Then I would take. When we first started, I didn't have a lot of clients at the same time, so I had time to do this stuff. And I would print out a Google map from the computer and I would go in my car and I would literally drive up and down the streets of that suburb and I'd make little notes on my Google map about the character of the housing in that area. Was it a bit rough looking, Was it tidy, Was it owner occupied looking? Was there renovation going on? Was there development? What's the style of the houses here? And I would make all these notes on these printed Google maps of the suburbs. So I literally drove the streets of all these suburbs.

Do you still do that today?

Not so much like that anymore. If there is a suburb that I'm not as familiar with and I haven't worked in before or something like that, I will look at some properties that I might want to look at, but they'll go over there earlier and I'll spend a bit of time driving up and down and around, might go into the shopping centre to see what the people are like.

If you were going to give some suggestions to people who are going to a new area to investigate themselves, what would be the tips that you'd give them, what to look for?

Yeah, I would definitely go and drive the streets and you're looking at the housing style, the condition of the houses, like are the lawns mowed? Are the cows parked on the grass on the front? Like, is it a bit rough? Is it not rough? Is there renovation going on? Is there development going on or other houses, mostly original? What's the style of houses in the area? What's going on, you know, in terms of go to the local McDonald's and check out what the people look like. Go to the local shopping Centre, check out what the people look like.

I was wondering what you do at the shopping centre.

Yeah, just check out the people. So, yeah, and yeah, that's essentially I would spend a bit of time doing that sort of stuff. Go to some open homes. Obviously that's always good to get in and see some of the properties in the area, make some contact with the agents that's going to open homes. Not necessarily if you're going to buy, but even just to see, okay, this is what a house that's listed at this sort of price looks like. And by the way, he's an agent I can make a contact with and talk to and I can ask them questions about. Like I remember going out in some suburbs and I used to, I remember asking some of the agents there, you know, there was an area as a patch that we, when we first started buying out in Logan and Logan can be a bit of a rough and ready area in parts. Some of it though is quite nice. And I remember I was trying to get my head around which suburbs were better than others. The way that I understood different parts of Brisbane and because we were new in that area. This is a couple of years back when we first started going in and buying a lot of property over there. I remember when I go and see a property with an agent, I'd say, hey, what about these suburbs? If I give you these four suburbs, can you rank them in order of which ones you think are the best or the worst suburb? And I was starting just to get a picture in my mind of where these suburbs sat on the hierarchy.

I think that that kind of local knowledge. And you said before, you know, you like to know the area that you're investing in. I don't think you necessarily have to live there. But getting to know an area and getting to know the type of people, the type of properties can really add to, I guess that value bank of research that adds a little extra layer on top of the numbers. So crunch the numbers first and then go out and walk the streets and have a look at what's going on is a really great tip.

Oh, definitely. And there's so many good examples of that in the media where, you know, when you see in magazines and things like that and they say, oh, the top five, you know, suburbs for X, Y, Z and the top three suburbs for this. And when if you know the area and you look at the suburbs, you're like, what? You know. Yeah. So for example, one of them that comes up often in for Brisbane is Rockley top something suburbs For a yield and you know, low price property close to the city, it's because it all goes underwater. People like the bank won't lend in that suburbs.

It's funny, I was looking at the exact same list it was for Tasmania yesterday and it had the top rental yield, zn. And I'm like, I've been to zn, I've been to these mining towns and like there's, you know, they're $40,000 houses that no one wants to live in. And the yield looks fabulous, but it's not, it's not really an investor kind of area. So you know, you gotta be careful about these top areas to look at, don't you?

Yeah, exactly. Just don't rely on the numbers. But I think getting your feet on the ground is actually really useful. And if you can't get your feet on the ground, get someone else's feet on the ground for you, I. E. Your buyer's agent.

Well, I mean, gosh, you know, you've had incredible success as a buyer's agent. What, back to back REIQ Buyer's agent of the year runner up again this year. You know, in a very short period of time. Obviously you've done so very well. Can you tell me some of your, I guess, more memorable clients or the ideal clients that you're looking for?

Look, I think the ideal client is ready to buy. And that's a struggle for some people. I think some people sort of can't. To use a buyer's agent, you need to be ready to buy mentally, emotionally. And for some people, letting go and having that, it's a trust relationship and you know, so you really need to be ready to buy. And if you're not, maybe look at the we Actually I did a podcast recently with Lisa Parker about barriers to buying. What are the things that stop people from buying? And that was really interesting because there are sometimes just blocks that people need to get through before they actually can take the plunge. So I think people need to be ready to buy. They also need to be realistic about expectations. So there's a lot of people out there who I come across and they say we've been looking for 18 months and we haven't bought anything. And that to me is a little warning sign that maybe your expectations are not aligned with what the market has in your budget for you. So you need to make sure that you understand and have realistic expectations about what you can achieve. Because you're better off to buy something that you can achieve than sit and do nothing for the next five Years saying, well, we never really found the one we liked.

Engaging a buyer's agent and being very specific about the brief would be, I guess, the first protocol. But my understanding is, is this a myth that buyer's agents have a lot of opportunities that the regular Joe walking along the street trying to buy doesn't?

I think the answer to that is yes, but it's not necessarily what you think. So, yes, we do get off market listings that get sent through, or we get listings that are coming to market before they get to market. So that is definitely a plus. And often, not often, but sometimes you can snap those up before they actually go to the market. But probably the thing that we get access to or the thing that is a big benefit is just the relationships that we have with people. So even if a property is on the market and I'm in there competing with other buyers who just walk in off the street, if I know that agent, I've got a good relationship. They want to do business with me because they know I don't muck around. They know that our clients are good for finance, they know that we will nurse our client through the building and pest phase so that they, you know, because they get a lot of circumstances where first home buyers might freak out after building pest and pull out for cold feet and things like that. So they know that we are good to work with. So even if they've got other offers on the property and those offers are all very close, often they will push our offer ahead of others just because of that relationship. So that's a really big plus that people don't actually realise.

And tell me, give me an example of a memorable win for a client.

Oh, a memorable win. I think I've had some interesting ones, like really good investment properties. Like there are so many properties that I've purchased, people where I just wish I had that one myself. So there's one example I can give you where I purchased a property for someone and it was actually in Chermside and that property was on a small block of land and it was a dead set renovator, but you know, for the price in that area, it was unheard of. So it was in the threes, I think, and you know, it was super cheap, the cheapest property in that suburb. But it's definitely run down, needed some work, so bought it for that client. The client did the renovation on it, but then as it happened, their block wasn't big enough to develop, but it was in a developable area and the two houses next door decided to team up and sell as a development site. And so the agent then contacted the owner, who's my client, to say, I'm selling the two properties next door. Do you want to come in on this? And so they came. This is only like less than 12 months after they've bought it. So they've come in on it and then on sold this property less than 12 months later and made a substantial amount of money as a development site paired with the other two properties next door. So that was a big win.

So tell me this. You're traveling around, you're looking at these properties, feeling a bit jealous. I think, from my memory, you then decided to buy and do something different. You were going to buy, renovate, and sell.

I did, yeah. That was exciting.

So tell me about that. Did you that by yourself?

No, I did that with my good friend Joe. And Joe's been on the podcast a number of times. Mastermind Jo, we used to call it. So, yeah, she's a good friend of mine who I actually met through property investing as well. She's a geek too, she'll be proud to say. So we decided to pair up. I'd not long started the business. I've been in business maybe a year or so, but banks don't really want to give you a lot of money when you run your own business, particularly after the first year or so.

You need two years under your belt, don't you, really?

Yeah. So it was difficult to. I want to keep investing, obviously, because I love it. I'm looking at all these awesome properties, but in order realistically to do anything, I was going to have to pair up with someone. So it just so happened Joe and I were in the right frame of mind to work together on something. And we actually did a Renault Kings course, which was great. We really enjoyed that, Paul and Jeff. Yeah. So after that, we decided we were going to find something to renovate and sell. Look, we both really wanted to keep it, because I still think if you can renovate and keep it, you're going to be doing a lot better in the longer term. We both wanted to, but it's just circumstances wouldn't let us, so we had to flip it.

Now, tell me this. I just want to go back to the comment you made about you were both in the right frame of mind. Tell me about what's the right frame of mind of finding a JV partner.

Well, I think it's tricky finding a general JV partner. I'm not sure this is someone who I've known for a Long time. And I know she's got financial knowledge, good financial knowledge. I know she's happy to get her hands dirty if we had to do work, and we just. I just knew I knew her. So to find a JV partner, cold, as in someone who you don't know. I don't know how that works. Well, I'm not too sure. I don't know how you would screen them appropriately quickly enough to know that that's going to work out. So I knew that we would be okay or work well together.

So with that, having a JV partner, you both were in a circumstance, I imagine, one provided the finance, maybe being Joe, and you provided something else. Or did you delineate the roles?

Yeah, look, the idea was that Jo was going to pay for the property and I would pay for the renovation and I would coordinate the renovation. Jo was gonna come up and help a bit when she could because she lived interstate, and that was kind of the division of jobs, I guess. But look, you know, even knowing someone really well, like I knew Jo, and we had our roles and all that sort of stuff, it still had tough times where I thought, you know, we could have lost our friendship over it. It's not easy to run something like that, particularly when things start to get a bit hairy or, you know, the property needs to get on the market quickly, otherwise we're losing money. But this thing hasn't finished, and that thing hasn't finished, and so people start to get stressed. So, yeah, it still is difficult, even with Brent.

Yeah. And I think from the JV partnerships that I've seen, but going in very clearly in the beginning with who does what and who's providing what and what the exit plan is and strategies in case you have to have an emergency exit are really good to have clear up front. But often, you know, those conversations late at night over a red wine with some friends going, hey, let's do this together, can be the ending of some very nice friendships or family. Family harmony.

You're absolutely right, Jane. You've got to spend time to nut out the what ifs. What if I lose my job? Not for me, that was a business. But what if Jo lost her job? Or what if one of us died? What if, you know, we even went through that scenari. What if you're hit by a bus? What if I'm hit by a bus? So, yeah, you have to talk that stuff through. I think you're silly to go into stuff. Just assuming that's all going to be roses.

Good tip. Well, now Tell me about the flip. Give me the numbers.

Yeah, look, it was a success. This is just off the top of my head. I don't have it in front of me, but we paid, I think, 343 for it at auction, and we sold it eight weeks later for 500.

Nice.

And we'd spent, I think, about 50 or so, maybe on a Renault. So what did you spend? We made $62,000 of profit.

So you bought it for 343,000. Eight weeks later you sold it for 500,000. So what did you spend on the Renault?

About, I can't remember, 50 to 60, somewhere in that bracket.

And how did that work with the budget? Did you go over budget?

We did, but we did it knowingly. In the end, we decided to take a punt that the deck that we were going to buy for five grand would add more than five grand of value on and would be worth it.

And tell me the. So, you know, people talk about cosmetic and structural renovations. What type of renovation was it?

Essentially, it was cosmetic. We did turn a laundry into an ensuite, so we had a couple of little wall changes or bits and pieces, but realistically, it was cosmetic.

Okay, so. And what was the profit you made?

62,000. We made between us.

And that was before tax.

That was before tax, yes. But I mean, we worked really hard for that. And in hindsight, if I look at it now, would those numbers be enough for me to do that project now? I don't know that they would because at the time I only, you know, I only ran a few clients at a time in my business. I didn't have a shop and staff and things like that. I was a sole operator. So for me to stop working and to paint a house for two weeks was kind of okay. It probably wouldn't be now.

And hence your cost would go up if you had someone else do it.

Yeah, that's it. So nowadays I would have to look. I wouldn't be doing that myself. I couldn't stop working for two weeks to go and sort this out. And I spent a lot of time over there managing stuff, and I couldn't do that now because I have a shop and staff to look after and things like that. So different circumstances. At that point in time, it worked for us both. We made a modest profit. Modest enough that was worth the project. Would I do that same project again? Probably not in the same way, because I'm in a different position now. And to me, that's a real key learning of investing what's right for One person isn't necessarily right for another, and what's right for you at one point in time isn't necessarily right for you at another point in time. You have to evolve.

And tell me this, you make that comment about you personally doing the painting. What are your thoughts about DIY versus having tradies involved in your renovation?

I see it a bit like an apprenticeship. I think you've got to do your time. I think if you have no concept of what it takes to do a renovation or to do work or to estimate work, it'll make your life hard. If you're going to renovate for profit, that'll make your life difficult. And I think getting your hands dirty gives you a real understanding of what the work, how long things take, what's involved, what costs there are and all of that sort of stuff. I think to me, to just say, I'm going to do a renovation and I'm going to buy a house, pay all these people to renovate it and it's going to make me money. I feel like you've got to do your time, you know, but at some point you realise that there's a limit to what you can do with that.

And what about, you know, getting quotes versus, you know, getting a quote for the job outright or. Versus material and labor quotes?

Look, material and labor quote. In my experience, you're always going to beat it. If you're going to coordinate, that's going to beat it because you're going to pay someone to do it. They're going to add money on to do that.

And they're adding that money on really for that risk, aren't they? They're like, oh, if something. If I uncover something, at least if they go with a material and labor quote, they can say, well, this is blown out and they're going to get recourse for it. But if they just go for a big quote, then you're going to hold them to the fact that they said they're going to build a deck for $5,000.

Yeah. And I had that exact same circumstance happen on that project.

Really?

Yeah. Where the guy sort of one day he was a bit of a faffer, the guy that we had doing it. And he faffed about and he faffed about and he'd go to Bunnings and buy one thing and then he'd come back and he faff about and he'd go to Bunnings and buy another thing. You're like, dude, buy all your Bunnings stuff at the start of the day. And then work for the rest of it. So at one point he actually downed tools and said, you know, this is taking too long and I'm not going to finish it now. And I'm like, hang on, we've got a fixed price quote for this. And in the end he left. I had to get someone else to come finish it.

And they're getting someone else to come and finish the jobs. I mean, you say that flippantly, but they're taking on the risk of the maybe builders, warranty, insurance and all of these other things. It's very hard to get someone to take up someone else's half finished job, isn't it?

Yeah, it wasn't great. We went through three builders on that project in eight weeks. Yeah. The first guy we had, you burned them. Karen, what happened? The first guy was a builder. He was a qualified builder and he told us he could do all these things. And then once he actually started, I could see within the first day I thought, oh, this guy doesn't look like he knows what he's doing. And he's sort of asking me questions. I'm like, oh my gosh, you shouldn't be asking me that because you're a builder and you should know that. And. And it started to worry me. And then we sort of found out along the way he'd been a builder on new builds, new build homes, he'd never done a renovation. And it's a different Kello Fish.

Good tip is actually finding out the experience the builder has had in the specific type of project that you're doing.

Yeah, it's a bit. You sort of feel like you have to ask people and you do. You have to ask people common sense things that you think should be their job. Like you have to. It's like asking your accountant, do they know how to use a spreadsheet or something? You know, you need to ask the person, can they do specifically what you want them to do, not just assume because they're a builder, they know how to do it. So I found now I don't assume that anyone knows anything. And I don't care if I'm teaching them how to suck eggs when I'm telling them what I want. I'm really specific now about I need this done. Have you done this before? What's your experience? Blah, blah, blah.

So tell me this from that project and that flipping experience with the jv. What are your best tips that you can share with our audience if they were thinking about doing something like that?

Do the numbers hard, do it Properly and we were really good on doing that. We had this massive spreadsheet and we had all the things we were going to do and we costed it all out and we worked out what the profit would be at the end. When we first did our run through of what we wanted to do the house, we had $80,000 worth of work in there and we just knew that you can't do $80,000 worth of work. This won't be profitable. So do the like on the. This is on the actual renovation side of it, but do those numbers really well. But before that, buy the right house. If you bought the wrong house, doesn't matter what you're going to do because you bought the wrong house.

Nearly every property can be renovated. They don't all deserve to be is what we say here.

Yeah, and they won't all be renovated. Profit. So just because they're old doesn't mean it's a great renovation project.

So tell me this, what's next for you property wise?

Well, I'm actually in the market looking for another property at the moment which is exciting, A home or an investment? No, an investment property. We've got another one that we bought a couple of years ago that's a hold in Brisbane in a nice sort of inner suburb that's doing quite well. And we bought that in our super fund and now we're going to go again in our super fund actually. But this one's going to be a little bit of a different property. It's going to be more of a lower budget. There's a few suburbs that I like in Brisbane where you can get good development potential and like a nice little buy and hold with really good yield. But it has future development potential. So that's what I'm do share.

Give us a tip. What's the suburb we could be looking at for that?

Oh, there's a few of them actually. You know, everybody knows at the moment the outer north of Brisbane where the new universities going in at Petrie and all those suburbs that belong in the Moreton Bay area there are all doing really well. So there's some really good properties to be had there. So if you've got in saying that I'm buying it in my super fund and just because I know someone's going to be sitting there going but you can't develop a new super fund. Yes, you can't develop it using borrowed funds in your super fund. And my intention is not to develop it, it's to sit on it and on sell it.

But Interesting point. If you did have funds in your super fund and you didn't have to borrow, you could make improvements to the property. Well, we're not accountants or financial planners, so check that with your people.

But I have heard, I heard someone knowledgeable say that once.

I think I interviewed someone on a podcast once. So tell me, you have got big picture Brisbane. Obviously, affordability issues in Sydney and Melbourne are driving people to look at more affordable capital cities. And we're seeing. Can you tell us your thoughts about the Brisbane market and opportunities for people there today?

Yeah, look, Brisbane has been going great guns for a couple of years now. And I know there was actually an interesting article I read this week by Terry Ryder where he said that it looks, on the surface, if you look at the broad median price of Brisbane, it looks like, well, all this hype has come to just a little bubble, not a housing bubble, but like a little bubble of activity. But it hasn't quite turned into this massive sort of explosion that they expected. But as Terry Ryder said in his article, if you look under the hood and you start looking at specific areas of Brisbane, some areas have had double digit growth easily. There's quite a few areas where that's occurred. And so there's a number of suburbs where really good growth has occurred. And it has been doing that for a couple of years. Yes. On the surface you might think, wow, Brisbane, has it really eventuated into what everyone said it would? It actually has in several areas. Many areas you just got to work out. Hopefully you have the property in those areas. However it's still going at the moment. There is still a lot of, I think a lot of legs in Brisbane. I would think, you know, just by history and the length of property cycles and things like this, you would expect things to slow. But on the ground, I don't see it. Honestly, we are smashed with inquiry. There are a lot of buyers out there. There are still multiple offer properties, probably not the same heat as they might have been sort of maybe 12 months ago, but definitely a lot of buyer activity.

Absolutely. And there's still, as you mentioned, you know, university, the Sunshine coast has got the hospital, there's infrastructure that's going in as well. So there's a lot of investment that's happening.

Yes. Yeah, definitely. And I think if your plan is to sit and hold a property for long term, there's lots of good property to be bought here.

Perfect. Okay, finally, best tips for new investors. What's your top three? If people are listening to this podcast going, oh, property investment haven't started. I've now got a bit of a taste for it. What would be your best tips?

I think educate yourself. This is a really hard one because I often get contacted by people who are like, I really want to. Who can I go? Who is a mentor for me? Who is this? And I found this when I was trying to learn about property. There is no one stop mentor shop that's going to solve your problems. And realistically, you are the person who cares most about your finances. So you are the person you're going to have to rely on at the end of the day. So educate yourself. But realize at the end of the day, you're the one who's going to be responsible for this. So sometimes I think we're all. You start off and you're looking for someone just to give you the answer. Just tell me what I'm supposed to do. And my experience of that has been there is no person who's going to tell you that. Sorry, sorry for the bearer of bad news.

The best property investment is the 6 inches between your ears, probably.

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. So I guess that would be number one, educate yourself. Number two is do something. Like just do something. There are so many people out there who go, oh, I want to do this, I want to do that and I want to do this. And they don't ever ask, actually do it. Half the battle is you've got to be the one who takes the action. If you're the person taking the action, then you're going to get further than the person who doesn't. So just do something. And the other thing is, I think this sort of goes along with that, I guess, is set goals. That is the thing that will spur you into taking the action. So there's no point just going, oh, I really love to get into investing one day and then go and have a beer and do something else. I really want to get into investing one day. So give yourself a little piece of time somewhere. Go to a coffee shop or go to the beach or go somewhere with a little book and a pen or an iPad or whatever it is and go, okay, what do I want to achieve? Give it a five year and a three year and a one year or something like that. I'm not a big believer of too far in the future. I think you can have a broad high level. I want to retire by the time I'm 60 or 50 or whatever. But realistically when it comes to actually implementing, you need the nitty gritty stuff. So you need to be Closer in than that. So write down, write down what you're going to do and then hold yourself accountable. Set some reminders in your calendar. So by this date, this is what I'm going to achieve. Put the reminder in your calendar, put the actions in your to do list, if you use a to do list or something. But it's not going to happen magically. I guess that's it.

Great, great advice. So set your goals, educate yourself and take action. I can't think of anything better than a new investor could take on board. So that is just fabulous. Karen, thank you so much. Great tips for those new investors and we really appreciate, you know, the things that we've covered with you today. I think you've just been an absolute wealth of information. JVs flipping buyers agencies, starting businesses, starting podcasts, you know, and all the tips that you've shared with us. Just an absolutely amazing, as I said, standing on shoulders of giants. I feel today worth being able to interview you finally. Having known and a lot of your story over the years, you've been inspirational and definitely done so much to inspire and educate a wealth of Australians out there about property investing. So for that, I really appreciate your time as well.

Thank you, Jane. It's been an absolute pleasure speaking with you as always.

Till next time.

Alrighty.

It was great.

Oh my gosh. You know that there's so much information there and there's so many points I want to pull out. But if we go back to when she started, we're talking about someone in their 20s has gone, gotta do something, gotta buy property. And a lot of people do this, their first property. You know, maybe a one bedroom unit's not the best thing to do, but it's where a lot of people start.

Yeah, I did that, I did that. I did the travel overseas in my 20s and then kind of got back in, you know, late 20s and thought.

Oh, better grow up.

Yeah, I really better get something behind me. But yeah, same thing. And it was, it was just like ticking the box for me too. I didn't really spend too much time on location and stuff like that. I just, you know, got it and renovated it and away we went. But yeah, often, often happens that way. But she certainly learned a lot since.

Then and lucky that the Australian market, you know, unless you get something that is a real dog, the Australian market, the longer you hold it.

Yeah.

The more you look like a bit of a champion too.

Pretty forget.

Yeah, it is a forgiving market. But, you know, she started with a 95% loan, which is exactly how I started. Only had a 5% deposit. So, you know, unfortunately with the banks pulling back on a lot of their lending criteria at the moment, not everyone can get 95% loans anymore. But you know, starting with something small, which, you know, if we kind of fast forward. My goodness. She's done so much since then, that first little property. But, you know, just that kind of, you know, you know, she had her kids, she didn't really want to go back back being full time. She realized that, you know, there's a whole lot of life ahead to live and she didn't want to rely on the pension. And I think, you know, so many people go through that realization when they sit back and go, you know, is this it? You know, and. And they look for that, that kind of alternative. And she really then started investing in herself and like me, started with the two hour free seminars. Doing all of the free seminars you can. Until you've done that.

Yeah.

Until you realize that they're probably costing you a lot in time and. And angst.

Yeah. Still loves a good free seminar. Well, we talked about this the other day. You learn a lot in those seminars. And as long as you don't get caught up in the. If you don't run to the back of the room, you know, nail yourself to the floor and hold tight.

Yeah.

But you do learn. You meet people and you learn a lot of good tips here and there and. Yeah.

And that's the interesting thing about Karen's story is that. And I found this. Exactly. And I know you did. We've talked about this before, is that you, you're kind of on this quest and you feel like you're this adventurer by yourself and then all of a sudden you find someone who understands what you're talking about and you cling onto them for dear life. Which, you know, that's Dan and her group. Right.

That was hilarious. Love the PowerPoint presentation. To a room of six. That's great.

Unite the nerds. I could just visualize it and I want to be there.

I know that that sounds super nerdy, but those groups that you just get together and chat and have, have a few drinks, they're so unproductive often. So as super nerdy as PowerPoints are, that would actually have some structure to it. So I can see the sense in it.

That's good.

Well, many years ago, groups used to get together and play the cash flow game. Rich dad, poor dad, cash flow game as well. And I was a little bit jealous because I never got a chance to do that, but I was always wanted to be invited to a dinner party for cash flow. I'm sending out a call, guys.

Yeah, we can do one of those.

But that idea of surrounding yourself by like minded people and having a conversation and stretching yourself and being each other's backers and cheer squad and you know, we have the ability to see that in the youe Property Success Private Facebook group. You know, everyone's in there supporting each other, but sometimes it's just so hard to find that kind of tribe to hang with. And she created it herself. And then what did she create the podcast? It's like I want to interview experts and get what she call it.

Free consulting.

Free consulting, perfect. I'm going to have to put that down. I'm going to have to come up with the next podcast guest.

Where did you start the podcast? Free consulting.

And you know, she's interested in finding out the answer, so why not find it out from the experts? And yeah, 2011, she really paved the way.

Yeah, absolutely. That was one of the first property podcasts. And yeah, what an excellent resource it's become. You know, when you look back, you know, six years now of great information.

Great guests and it makes you realize too I know that, you know, I was on the podcast, maybe 2012 was probably my first podcast with her and I still get people listening to that podcast and ringing me up. So it's just extraordinary. You know, once you send it out into the ether, it's there forever. So you better be careful what we say, John. Well, we won't get to podcast 15.

Yeah, that's right.

And so she really turned that interest into. And you know, a lot of people talk about stuff and it's nice to surround yourself by good, good people, but you have to take action. Yeah, you know, she loves that analysis but she's also, she's also practical in putting things in place as well. So, you know, she out there, she's looking at doing things and walking the talk and getting out. And a bit later in the interview we talked about how she learned up on going into a new area into Brisbane. Google Maps prints out the Google Maps and drives. And drives. And she needed to know the suburbs, not just from a. And you know, I was speaking to a new client this morning and he was saying he's driving around on the weekend through Brisbane looking at suburbs, but she was trying to get to know the streets and the type of houses and everything because that is becoming her business. Business. Yeah, it's, it's a good lesson for anyone who Wants to learn a new area.

Well, it's low tech too, isn't it? Because people often get caught up in all the expensive software and that kind of thing and it's a great way to do it. Just you, obviously you need to do the tech research and the research online and, you know, you don't want to pound the payment of every suburb, but once you've done that, you still need to get down and the ground. And we've heard that on, you know, probably five episodes so far of people going around and looking at the shops.

And looking to the supermarket, seeing the type of people that you're going to find as your neighbors.

And it's really interesting too. We did a. When we were doing research, property due or suburb due diligence for our development sites, we would print out the maps based on the incomes. So we're looking at high income levels and then we drive those streets and look at them and go, oh, what makes the people here high income, you know, compared to the next pocket over there? So all those little things and trying to piece it all together, a really great thing to do.

Absolutely. And you know, I think that it's the thing that differentiates a buyer's agent who specialises in looking after investors to the ones that are looking after mum and dad who are just time poor. Because, you know, getting that and you know, you have to be very specific about the criteria that you give them as well, because they're going to deliver the results that you set some boundaries around in the beginning. But, you know, having someone then back up the recommendation with data and why they're recommending a property for you to go into your portfolio is fabulous. And you know, if you get it right, well, they're obviously going to come back again and again and refer people to you too.

They can really take up a hell of a lot of that grunt work that takes a lot of time to do. So, yeah, it's a good thing when you get it right. But you do. We have heard stories where people, you know, for instance, do the ultimate guide to renovation or do your property Success Club. They come up with a really strict criteria, which is excellent, and then they hand it out to a buyer's agent. The buyer's agent goes, whoa, that's because that's a lot of work for them, you know, so. So they're set up to work for time poor people to buy homes. So they're not going to. You've got to find the right buyer's agent that works for investors.

Actually, I remember One of the couples that came to our one day hotspotting workshop in Brisbane in December, in 2016, we got down to the streets to buy in Kedron and they gave that to the buyer's agent. And the buyer's agent was saying, really, can we go outside these streets? Said, no, this is where we want to be. That was how strict they were. They found a property, it's gone up 50 grand since they bought it, so. So, you know, it worked for them.

But worth the work.

Understand going in with a good criteria and working with a savvy buyer's agent's good. And look, she's one REIQ's buyer's agent of the Year and only relatively new to the industry. So. Fabulous, fabulous joint ventures. Oh, my gosh. Joint ventures. Sometimes they're a diamond and sometimes they're coal. And she linked up with a great, a good friend who is also a property investor. So they knew the numbers. And, you know, we hear about a lot of stories where JVs go wrong. And just some of that advice around having the exit strategy set up in the beginning and understanding who's bringing what to the table. Is it money, is it time, is it expertise, et cetera, and knowing the numbers up front and making sure that there is a profit. Because the worst thing can happen is that, you know, you don't make money at the end and you lose a good friend as well.

Yeah. But you've got to have those scenarios of if something goes wrong. And there's all sorts of scenarios of what can go wrong too. And JVs, like, there's not only that you, you know, don't make a profit. And then it's, what's the, what's the profit split or what's the loss split? Is it the same as the profit split or, you know, gosh, I never.

Even thought about that.

So it sounded like they did all of their research, they even discussed, you know, of what one of them was to die, what would happen. And you've got to do all that if you're doing a thorough. Because you need to work out all of those scenarios. If something goes wrong, what then happens?

Exactly.

Because you're not just usually pulling your own time and effort and money into the deal. Your family's behind you. So if something does go wrong, it's the family that has to deal with the issues and pick up the problem.

Yeah. And it means something goes wrong, then you've got it there in writing. You've already agreed to that you're not doing, doing it while you're in the heat of the moment and stressed and everything.

But yes, when I listened to her and I was thinking, oh my gosh, she's driving around every single day seeing these deals of a lifetime, you know, how do you choose? And it's funny because she probably has the same conversations that we do with people and they go, gosh, there's nothing out there, you know, I can never find anything. We're sitting there going, oh my gosh, you know, open your eyes a bit more. So much out there. Look harder, but look. And she's now targeting a lower budget, budget Brisbane Property, which you know, for another development as a buy and hold. And, you know, if it was a flip, I think I'd have some concerns at that low end of the market doing a development and all those costs. But there's a longer term plan for it. So it just shows you how you just strategise about what you need to do and the property needs to do for you first before you then go and start looking for it.

Yeah, she had some good things to say about Brisbane too, didn't she? She's kind of said that it's still flying under the radar in a bit, even though that there's been a bit of an expectation. I mean, it was pumped up a lot a few years ago and some people kind of feel that that didn't probably eventuate. But what she's saying is on the ground, it did eventuate. The suburbs that have been performing really well, if you know where to look and know where to buy.

Absolutely. And I think, you know, there's so many markets within Australia and there are so many markets within every capital city and we can say that Brisbane hasn't performed, but we've got, you know, plus 10% for some suburbs in Brisbane and so there's still opportunity out there. And still affordable.

Yeah, absolutely.

Still affordable.

So, Jane, I think we've reached that point in the program that everyone's waiting for.

What could it be? John?

Yes, it's that time again where you get the chance to test your suburb knowledge while the entire nation holds its breath. Ladies and gentlemen, it's time to play Suburbs against the Clock. The rules are simple to play. All you have to do is answer a question about 10 suburbs in the city of your choice. Within 20 seconds, the lucky winner of Suburbs against the Clock will win one year's free access to your Property Success Club. Your Property Success Club is an in depth monthly masterclass which gives you the practical tools needed to grow your portfolio yourself without Having to spend a fortune on expensive seminars or even leaving your own home. So who do we have standing by to play Suburbs against the clock? Yeah?

Hi, it's Jodie.

Hey, Jody.

Hey, Jody. How are you going? Are you ready for the suburbs?

I am ready.

Brisbane. Oh, good. And you know Brisbane well, Jodie, Once.

Upon a time I knew it very well. Now I am 12 weeks living here and discovering it all over again.

Oh, good. Well, let's just hope that you can achieve 10 suburbs in 20 seconds with the question that we have in mind here.

The suburb shouldn't have changed that much anyway.

No, that'd be the same.

We'll see.

And what stage are you at at the moment, Jodie, in your property investing?

Depends which of my husband or I you are. So if you ask me directly, I am ready to go again and put a little bit of strategy work to do to map out exactly what would work well in our portfolio. And if you ask my husband, he thinks I'm at the shopping centre looking for shoes and groceries. Cool.

Now, Jane's. I'll just warn everyone that Jane's written this question.

Well, it was on the back of the fact that I had difficulty with it when I was speaking to Kieran Claire recently. And I thought Brisbane has.

It has come up for Brisbane as been a reoccurring problem for us. Us. So. So. Are you ready?

Bat, start the clock.

You're making me nervous.

Yes, let's do this.

Okay. And the question is, can you name 10 Brisbane suburbs with strange sounding names? Clock starts now.

Kirk and Gary. What? Oh, yeah. In Dripilli. Deception Bay. Do we include Morton Bay Shire?

10 seconds.

10 seconds up to 4. Cooper Manly.

A kangaroo point.

Oh, there goes the bell.

She did it. She got it. Did I get 10?

You've been paid. It's been paid.

Good job, good job. You know, Deception Bay, I was thinking, is that weird sounding. I'm thinking yes. Imagine going out at night and going, I'm from Deception Bay. So yeah, I'm going with weird. Very well done. Congratulations. Well, Jodie, well, we're going to get you a copy of access to your proper success club.

Yep. Oh, wonderful. Thank you. That'll be great. And my husband never needs to know.

That's right. All the best, Jody. Thank you so much for being part.

Ah, just gets better and better, doesn't it?

Yes, it does.

And if you'd like to be a contestant on Suburbs against the Clock or you have a suggestion for a question to ask one of our contestants, please contact us@supportourpropertiesuccess.com and use the subject line Suburbs against the Clock.

And of course, before we go, just something a little bit extra. Karen and myself actually recorded an hour long video last year looking at potential investment properties in the Brisbane market. And I think there's so many research tools and a lot of really great stuff that we went through there. So. So we're going to put that in the show notes.

Yes.

So people can go back and have a look at that as well.

Yeah, it was really good.

It was great. It was a great challenge and we had some of our community put up those properties. So it was really good, interactive and a bit of fun. So we're going to make that available on the show notes on the website page YourPropertySuccess.com the letter E for echo, P for Papa and the number 14, that's YourPropertySuccess.com EP14. You'll find everything there from today's show, including the transcript, that great video and everything else that was mentioned. So that's all for today, guys. Stay safe and here's to your property success.

Ladies and gentlemen, it's important for you to understand that you need to take care in applying what you've heard on this podcast to your own personal circumstances. Everyone's situation is different and while we go to great lengths to ensure that everything we share is accurate, the information in today's podcast was based on personal experiences and opinions and is not intended to be specific to your circumstances. We are not real estate agents, financial planners, lawyers or accountants and are not liable for any loss, damage or misunderstanding caused by reliance on any information provided or inferred. We highly recommend you seek out the services of a professional or mentor to help chart your own path to property success.