Exit The Matrix with Me Experiment: Guest: Jaymin Patel on Emotions and Worthiness Gateways

Welcome to Exit the Matrix Stories of Success with your host, Jane Slack Smith, where we celebrate the incredible journeys of individuals who've transcended their limitations and achieved extraordinary success.

Hello, it's Jane again here. Now this is week 21 of Exit the Matrix with me, this crazy book writing experiment. And I, I have to tell you, every single week I'm upping it with the people that I'm introducing. And this week is not any different. I am talking to Jamon Patel. Hey, Jamin, how are you going?

Hey, Jane. I'm great. Hello, everyone.

Look, Jamin has so many accolades and awards against his name and unfortunately I'm not even going to talk to him about the most recent one, which is one of the most. The most influential speaker. There you go. There's a trouble there from what CEO magazine.

And yeah, so it was top motivational speakers from CEO Times and USA Today.

So we have one of the worldwide top speakers here today. But we're not talking about speaking. We're talking about, I guess, what goes behind the speaking. Jamin.

Yes. Where the magic is.

So you're obviously there in beautiful Bali and I had the opportunity at meeting you around March earlier this year, which was such a gift. I interviewed in week three, Alina, and she was talking about her awareness of things weren't quite right with her job and she made this dramatic change in her life. And at the end of the interview she kind of threw in, oh, by the way, on Friday we're starting a retreat and this is the Friday before. And I sat with it on the weekend going, oh, that's nice, she's got a retreat. And by Monday I said to my husband, I think I have to be there.

Oh, wow, I didn't know that backstory.

And on Tuesday I booked the flights and Wednesday I flew out. So left the family and the puppy and they were all good. So Jamin actually opened the retreat and it was such an extraordinary thing to see the work that you did and the experiments that you took us through. And really that kind of conscious communication and conscious of your own voice is really what I want to dive in today. Because in this navigation through the loosely aligned book chapters, where we're talking about this awareness that things may not be sitting right with you and then, then there's this messy middle. Then before we get into, you know, what is abundance, what do I really want and this awakening, how do I keep on this path, there's sometimes some really difficult conversations. And obviously, you know, as someone who teaches conscious speaking and has which we'll go into conscious relationships and, you know, strengthening those really important relationships with those that matter most with us. This kind of timing where, you know, you're at this exploration stage and things aren't feeling quite right, and there's a loss of the old you. You know, you have a lot of coaching clients. You speak a lot. You coach a lot on all of these things. What have you found is the, I guess, the thing that really holds people back from living their life on the frequency of where they want to be. Infinite possibilities. With all the work that you've done and all of these kind of conscious communication exercises that you have.

Absolutely. I love this question so much. And not only is this something that I've experienced in my own life over and over again multiple times, but I've seen, you know, with hundreds of clients that I've worked with. And so to me, I narrow it down to two specific things. Yeah. So emotions and worthiness. These are the gateways to actually get to where we want to go. And these are the two things that I see over and over again with people who may even have it all. Right. So a lot of people that I work with, you know, they're kind of navigating this question. I'm successful now what? Right. And so. And I have a whole masterclass, literally called that, because there's this kind of diamond path to life mastery, where half of it is like our business and our legacy and our impact and all of that. But then we have all the other pieces of connection, creativity, presence, you know, aliveness. And really, we want to bring aliveness and legacy together. So we want to be able to create money, power, success, really important. But we also want to balance with the other things. And the gateways to this side of this kind of diamond path, as I call it, have always been these two things, emotions and worthiness. So with emotions. But what's really going on is if you imagine the way that we've grown up, right, as. As children, you know, your kid falls down and gets hurt, what's the first reaction people have? You're okay, you're okay, I'm here, you're okay. But they're actually not okay. So they're getting the signal of, like, well, I'm actually feeling pain and sadness and fear and anger, but you're telling me that I should be okay, so maybe this isn't okay for me to feel, right? So even if the most loving parents, you know, know, let alone traumatic childhoods, we all get this messaging that these emotions should not be felt.

Yeah.

Right. Or we get the. Oh, here's the candy. Oh, look at this balloon. So we're distracted from those emotions, right? So anytime that those emotions have been happening for us as children, we're taught to avoid distract, not go with them. And so, you know, for people who are moving into this space with the messy middle, where they're like, things are not right, they're just right. It's like there's this emotion that's blocking them. There's this, like, emotion that wants to come through. Whether it's like an anger about what's happening and, like, I'm gonna burn this down, which most people end up doing, or if it's like a deep longing, you know, that maybe in high school we experienced a longing and then was met with rejection or unrequited love. And so there's. This is all these programming serum that are just holding us back. And there's also this fear of really doing great, of being successful and making it happen, right? And so when we're in the sadness or the anguish or the despair or the shame, you know, all those emotions which I now love, even though I spent decades of my life feeling shame about feeling shame, now I love feeling shame. The piece underneath it is being able to have that awareness and then communicate like, hey, this is actually like, I'm really sad. Like, I just. I feel disconnected. So most people, when I, you know, when they come to me, they're feeling kind of disconnected, numb, very anxious, depressed, right? Those are all very common signs of, like, this misalignment. The other part of that coin is the worthiness, right? And so this is really funny, especially with high achievers, is that they naturally have this sense of being very worthy because they've been very successful in their lives. But the thing that's really true for them, they're almost. Because they found a great way to make money. You know, whether it's property investing or whatever it might be, you know, they have this access to an abundant lifestyle, but it's not the thing that they really want to be doing. They don't know if it's. They're worthy to stop being successful in the way that they are and do this other thing, right? And so there's this piece around like, oh, well, if I leave all this behind, the identity that I've created around success, will I still be worthy of everyone's love in my life? Right? Because they've created that identity for themselves in terms of their community or their family or their friendships. And all of a sudden it's like, will I still be worthy if I go do this other thing? And it's a really huge one that people don't look at or might feel surprised by that. People who have making tons of money, great businesses, nice home, still don't feel worthy to follow what they actually want to do, because then they have to leave behind this identity. So this is the two places that I really find are the gateways into living what I call a fully lived life, right? A life where everything feels possible. You're in your mojo, you're doing what you want to do. You know that you're hitting your deathbed with no regrets, right? That is the energy that's available. But you've got to do that work to navigate the emotions and your relationship to them and be able to know how to feel them and articulate them so that something can be done about them. And then the other piece is moving through the worthiness, right? And just knowing that, like, your identity can shift and you can recreate yourself in any. Any moment. Because in the west, there's this idea that life is like. It has a beginning and then it's like a goalpost. And we just. We're. We're tracking ourselves along how we're doing as we move towards an end, right? This is just like I began here. Where are you now? Where are you now? What kind of house? What's the next house? What's the next car? What's the next role? What's your promotion? You know, what's your next business, whatever it might be, there's always a next, next, next. So this is invisible esc. As a society, we're always pushing people into like, oh, that's great. What are you going to do next? Right? So here you are interviewing people about your book. When's your book coming out? What are you going to do after the book? It's like, I'm just doing the book right now, right? This is just what's happening right now. So there's this notion of next, next, next. But in indigenous wisdom, it's very clear to these, like, kind of original tribal cultures that life is not a linear path forward. It's a series of death and rebirth. And so we're constantly dying to who we know ourselves to be and being reborn into the next version of ourselves. And if you can allow that for yourself and feel worthy of letting that change come through, you have no fear when those moments come up and then you can actually get to where you want to go. So to me, it's these two are the gateways to living that life that's very fully lived, where you're open to being in your creator energy, or Godbug, you know, as you call it. When you move through these two phase.

Gates, you know, this is so unique. And I, I, I really appreciate you bringing this up because it has never crossed my mind, but it feels so right. You know, we talk about this messy middle of, you know, looking back to the familiar and comfort, and we looking forward to the unknown and the difference. And there's this tension there, Right. Which is obvious. And there's the, as you said, rebirth and death. But what I've never heard anyone articulate before is this duality of worth where we can be worthy and see ourselves as worthy because of our past experiences, because of our success, but simultaneously feel unworthy because in this new paradigm, we have no proof. Like, I want to expand that a bit further. Can you jump into that?

Because my mind. Right, yes. Great. I love that. So, yeah. And guess what? That box of unworthiness for the new thing is wrapped in emotions, right? Fear. Yeah. Worry, sadness, anger. That now I have to keep doing what I'm doing to maintain the love that I have and respect that I have, the admiration that I have, the connections that I have, the attention, the validation that I have through my current Persona. Oh, my God. And then that's when people want to burn it all down, right? That's when they're like, f this, I don't, I cannot be this any longer. And I don't care if I still get the validation, the love, the attention and everything because it's just so misaligned. So this is kind of what this is wrapped in. This piece of worthiness is actually, if we can open up those emotional layers, we can get to it much more quickly. And once we can get to it, you know, it's just a younger part of ourselves. And most people feel a lot of shame in admitting it. Right. Especially people who on paper are successful but internally have strife, which is so many people. Right. And it's not very uncommon. But there is a vulnerability that is involved in acknowledging that level of unworthiness around the new thing that you want to go do, the way in which you want to take your new direction or to just take time off, right, from what you're doing and say, I just, I just want to take a little bit of time off and get some mental health time. You know, whether it's a day off or a month off, I just. A whole month off of my business in May because I was like, I don't want to hold all this. I just actually want to go to Europe. I. I was traveling to teach at a few festivals, and I said, I just want to backpack through the Black Forest and all this sort of stuff. And, you know, the work that I've been doing for the last 12 years with the fully lived method is allowing me to go into that piece where I can just say, yeah, I'm gonna go do this for a month. People wouldn't even do it for a day, you know, and so to have that ability to do it for a month and then come back and have literally one of the best, you know, 50k in two weeks, right. In sales, right. When I came back, not expecting it, no plan. I went with no plan. I came back. I got clarity, I got empowerment, I got the confidence. And then I went to work with full energy in this new identity of who I wanted to be, because it allowed that worthiness to be unwrapped, acknowledged. And then the clarity of where I'm going, the momentum, the drive all came, and in literally two weeks, boom. 50k in sales, right? Because everything came into.

You actually just went and lived on that frequency of infinite possibility. Right. So you.

Exactly. I was. I was like, just like swimming in it. Right? And here's the thing I think people don't understand. So we talk about consciousness, creatorship. This is the kind of terminology I use, right? So you're consciously creating everything that you're doing with a consciousness. So it wasn't just like, I just went and backpacked. No. Every day I was using the methods and the tools from the fully lived method that I teach on myself. Right. And so I had series of practices that I was doing throughout that period of time to bring the conscious awareness to where it wanted to be. Right. I was sitting with all the tools as they came up and was like, yes, I need this. I need this. And giving myself all of that, while giving my. Myself the sense of freedom that comes with travel, while also nervous system regulation, right. Of sauna, ice bath, yoga, whatever. I needed kind of physical practices as well. And then putting that all together. And so, you know, to me, the things that I kind of teach in, in my fully lived method, to me, they're. They're just like yoga or meditation. You do the yoga, it works. You do the meditation, it works. You do the practices that bring your energetic state back into alignment and allow you to release the emotional layers that are holding you in contraction. And you do the belief work around worthiness constantly. It's it's not like you do it once and you're done, Right? It's not like, oh, yeah, I did. I did yoga last month.

I'm worthy.

Yeah, this, it's an ongoing mini practice. And you know, the thing that shocks people is that this is like a 10 or 15 minutes a day thing. Right. And so, you know, like, I'll. I'll take calls with people, you know, and say, say my one to one work. And then they're two weeks apart and they're like, well, what am I gonna do for two weeks? I'm gonna practice. We're gonna be in touch, you know, we'll chat. Let me know what's coming up as you do it. But our next actual call cannot happen unless you've done 14 days of this practice and seen what it can do for you. Yeah, because it's not really me, it's the practices that are shifting you. I'm just bring you to a space where you can receive them, move through the layers so that you can do them. And when you do them, that's when things begin to shift. And that's what consciousness is. That's what conscious creatorship is, is that every day I practice morning and night. I have my practice before. As I move through my day, I'm practicing. I am on my motorbike, driving around Bali. Practice is coming through. Right? It's just like that. Mindfulness or meditation or stretching or yoga or whatever people may do for their physical health. Right? You do this for your energetic creatorship. You bring yourself back into what I call that fully lived frequency. This is where it all comes together.

So this is interesting because it now I'm. I'm more conscious of how dangerous this awareness is. Because at any time you can go back, you don't practice, or, or you have a response that says, I'm unworthy of this. I'm worthy. I love the validation. What am I doing? And this is all internal. This is. Before you start talking to your significant other friends, this is all internal first, and then you talked about this like, I'm going to burn it all down. So it seems almost like there's two extremes, which is, God damn it, I'm going to burn it all down. And this is it. Which kind of sounds a little bit like, which I haven't heard in the last 10 years. A midlife crisis. And then there's this, you know what? Who am I to want this? Maybe I should just be happy with the husband and the car and the kids.

Oh, my God. The Worst thing in the world is when something is bad but not so bad and good but not so good because people are stuck there. Oh, I cannot say. The number of people that I talk to and coach who are stuck in, like, well, you know, I like my job. It pays the bills. I've done this for years. I've kind of built this. I don't want to just walk away from a great salary, but I also have no excitement at all. And I get anxiety when I walk into work.

Wow.

On any trips, it's a slow death, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, it's a slow death because you're caught. And so in some ways, while I. You know. But when I see people burn it all down, I'm like, oh, my gosh, we need to talk, Please. Like, let's not. You don't have to be dramatic to make this work. They're at least doing something about it. The other ones, when they come, they're just riding this layer where it's like, okay, well, let's try to optimize everything else as much as we can, because you're not quite ready to make the shift. But, you know, in many ways, the universe will just make the shift for you, right? And that's a really beautiful thing when that can occur. But then again, that is then tied with a sense of rejection or loss, which spirals into shame, fear, sadness, right? So all of these things just keep coming back. They're just different flavors of the same thing. And what I find is that, you know, emotions, life, universe, whatever you want to call it, is going to constantly be like this roller coaster. And so we're going to have joy, expansion, connection, glee, you know, all of these fun, light, positive emotions, right? And then we're going to have some of the heavier ones, right? Like anger, fear, sadness, depression. But here's the thing. Imagine you're on a roller coaster, and you just came up to the top, and then all of a sudden, you're moving along and something happens. I'll tell you, two weeks ago, my phone just died randomly for no reason at all. Then drop. It didn't get it wet. It just was playing my nighttime recording as I was going to bed, and I just stopped and I looked at it and never turned on again. So I had no access to my phone at all. So that, you can imagine, sent me into this spiral of like, oh, my gosh, I don't have this. Why is this happening to me? How can I do this? I feel like I'm, you know, I was launching my Summit. I was launching my mastermind. All this stuff was happening. So I also did, you know, this massive month with no phone. So, you know, I. I was like, feeling like, punished a little bit. Oh, well, why is this taken away from me? You know, this is. This would make it so easy.

All the stories we tell ourselves, all.

Stories, but life is going to keep throwing us things, right? I'm not like, constantly in a state of fully lived, you know, and nothing happens. People think I'm perfect. It's like, no, I suffer the same as everyone else. I have ups and downs. We all do. Thank God. Otherwise we wouldn't be alive and life would be very boring. So as we're going down, imagine you crest over the thing and have you ever seen a roller coaster just break and then slowly try to, like, avoid going down? And then eventually has to go down because of gravity. Then it stays at the bottom longer, and then it has no momentum to come up. This is what we're trained to do as people. Anytime we drop into those negative emotions, we're breaking. Instead of saying, I know what to do here, I know how to feel this, it's okay. But bing, and you go down and I feel everything I need to feel, and then I shoot back up with momentum. And here's the thing. The more you can feel the emotions down here, the more access you have to emotion up here. Joy, pleasure, even orgasm expands when you're up in this region. The deeper you can be with these emotions. But because as I saying earlier, growing up as kids, we were always taught to avoid or distract or not be with those people, don't have the tools, and they put the brakes on, and then they find themselves in this depression where they're just numb, disconnected for extended periods of time, a little blips of. Of happiness that are just good enough to keep them going. And for me, my life is going right into them and coming back up. And this is where I kind of disagree with some of, like, the main kind of, you know, people in our coaching space. You know, I love the work of Tony Robbins and Joe Dispenza, but at the end of the day, they're teaching bypassing. Just change your state. Don't be a negative emotion. Stay in positive resonance. Like, don't. That's bypassing. You cannot bypass. You got to go in and come out quickly, efficiently, effectively. This is what the fully the method is about. It's like going. Knowing how to be with all those, letting them have their space so that they're complete, and then bringing them Momentum to feel more. If you're constantly changing your state, changing your physiology, trying to avoid that negative emotion, staying in positive resonance, you're actually avoiding all of those things. And it can build up over time, you know, and so this is, this is the key, is to know that we're always going to have ups and downs, no matter who we are, no matter how successful, how big our car, how great our sex, how amazing our relationship or kids. Like we're going to have this up and down. You need to be at the tools to be with those emotions. Back to the emotions. That's the doorway, that and the worthiness.

So this is interesting because if I look at my own experience being a property expert, cover Money magazine, you know, recognized just in Little Australia, but recognized as a property person, and it was challenging for me when, you know, for 12 years have run monthly Q and A calls and sometimes people would have a question and they'd be so confrontational, it's like, tell me about this, you know, this is not right or challenge. And I found myself doing one of two things. One was a CV bomb. Like, I've won these awards and I've done this and. Or my alternative was, and this is when I was feeling really challenged, which didn't happen a lot, but I. And I wasn't aware of it. And the second was I'd kill people with data. Like, I meant, well, do you really know the suburbs? So what's the vacancy, right? What's the demographics? How many kids are in primary school there? You know, what's. And I dump down all of this data. And it wasn't until I, I sat back and my coach did like a. What's your dysfunction orientation in times of stress and tension that I saw this and it got to the stage where I would have experienced the experience. And the day after I'd go, oh, she's. I did that yesterday.

Yes. Yeah, you noticed in the pattern.

But in the moment, now I can go, soon as I feel that tension and I go, oh, did you know that I. I have the authority and I'm CV bombing, I stop and I go, you know what? That is such a great question. It's something I haven't considered. I don't know it. Let's research it together now or let me come back to you. And that awareness base has got smaller. But geez, that awareness of the tension was such a gift to be able to go, there's an experience I have of fear or being. Being called out as an imposter or a fraud or Something and they. Everyone's going to find out. I know nothing. And you know, that has been a gift. And I've recently been listening to David Ginnham's work on the Kabbalah and he has this process called pause. What a gift. In times of challenges. And I find myself now when I'm feeling angry or upset or whatever, shame, guilt, whatever it is, I stop and I go, pause. What a gift.

Yes, I love this.

Where's the option? So my question to you is, I mean you're taking people from this awareness stage of see your emotions. How do you get someone to love shame and have this roller coaster?

Yes. Oh my God. How do we do that? My favorite emotion. So first and foremost, I just want to acknowledge that what you're talking about shows a level of work that you've done. And it's so beautiful, it's so important because our body is creating these sensations around our emotions all the time and it's trying to speak to us. And when we have our wires crossed, we don't know how to respond. So if someone calls us out, we feel shame and immediately we're validating with externalities or data and cv, dropping all that. This is kind of the way that we respond. But what you've done is you found a new path and open into the vulnerability and the worthiness of feeling. I'm still worthy even though I may be called out here, even though there might be a gap or even there might be something that I didn't consider, that's okay because I still have all of this that I can really rest on. I feel that deeper sense of worthiness here. I'm not being challenged by this. And that combined with my ability to read the signals in my body, the shame or the being called outness, whatever. And being with that is what enables you to be the leader that you are to engage in that conversation. So this is a perfect example of, of what it is that I'm talking about. I just want to acknowledge you in that because it's big work. So the. To your question, you know, when it comes to putting these, these pieces together, the first. So I teach four levels of emotional mastery in the fully lived method. I personally have experienced all of them in other bodies of work, all over the place. Right. Like in different corners and pockets.

So everyone does a little bit, but no one's brought it all together, no.

One'S bought it all together. And so, you know, and that's just one. There's four, four kind of chapters to the fully lived method. Four Modules, this is just the third module. So there's also like all these other tools that just in my journey, I've been very blessed to have lots of time and lots of money for the majority of my life. As a speaker, I made, you know, I've made millions of dollars as a speaker. I do a four month speaking tour. I have eight months off every year. So I had a lifestyle at a younger age where I had a lot of money and time and I was single and before I had kids and everything. And so I'd spend all this back on coaching. You know, I'm so committed to my growth. So, you know, through my journey, my personal journey of coaching, I've invested over half a million dollars in receiving coaching from, you know, the big, big guys like Tony and Joe to really obscure people here in Bali or, you know, as I've traveled around to 80 countries and done different things with individuals with their own cultures and whatever, through psychedelics, plant medicine, ayahuasca. All of this has come together in my own way. And this is where I've gathered through this journey over 12 years. All these pieces are existing, but they're all in different corners and they're not being all taught together. And then there was a few things missing that I didn't see. And I kind of, you know, use meditation and my guidance with the universe to fill in and sequence all of these things. So within that, talking about emotional mastery specifically, I teach four layers that I don't see all at once. And the first layer, which I think is the most important, is re relating to your emotions. Yeah. So let me just ask you. We'll just pick one. Let's choose anger. So let me ask you, what are the stories you heard about anger growing up?

Oh, you know, good girls don't get angry. Angry results in violence. Someone's going to get hurt. Anger means shouting. Anger is a very heavy negative vibe. You get punished at school if you're angry, you get labeled. The angry boy gets put in the corner.

Yes, perfect, right? I think what you just articulated so clearly again, love your awareness and communication. This is what every person at some level has received and may or may not be able to articulate. That is this in their psyche. So if we have that relationship to anger, it doesn't matter how many pillows we hit at a weekend retreat or, you know, breath work or meditation that we do, we still get the signals from our body when we're angry. Shut this down. Someone's gonna get hurt. Good girls don't do this. We're gonna be put in the cor. If we don't work at that very first layer of how we relate to the sensations in our body, all that stuff is not going to work. Is breath work powerful 100%. Is mindfulness and meditation powerful 2000%. If you do it in isolation without doing this layer and you've missed this one component, it's like, it's like 5% effective. Right? This is the missing pieces where I think people are like, oh, yeah, I'm doing this thing, but they're not doing this thing. And I'm like, how could you not do them together?

Which is the bypassing. Right?

Which is the bypassing. And so, because there's no other way to know it. So let's just. Let's just bring this to for. I'm happy to teach this right now. So with anger, what if the story we had with anger, the relationship that we had with anger, was a different story? So instead of don't get angry, it's going to hurt someone. Good girls don't do this should be put in the corner. All this sort of stuff, I'm going to get hurt. We unprogram that relationship to anger and we create a new one that tells us this. Anger, first and foremost is an access point to our power. Number two, it's absolutely okay to be angry. It's not okay to let your anger hurt someone. Yep, let's receive a breath into that.

I like that. Hello, Just a quick message. I hope you're enjoying this podcast bonus session. Now, if you have heard this interview, then you're probably sitting in there going, what is this all about? Well, this is all about my Exit the Matrix experiment. Now, I decided to write a book because I'm really interested in how do we go from the existence that we have now to exiting the matrix and living with intention from our hearts, following our heart's desires. Desires, but also creating abundance in all areas of our lives. And hence, whilst I've been researching this book, I thought, this is a really solitary journey. I want people to come on this journey with me. And hence, I've got this very special group now. Come and join me. The first month for founders is free, and if you decide to stay, fantastic. So what I'm doing is I'm interviewing incredible people. I'm getting insights about what's this awakening that people are getting, you know, what is the exit the matrix kind of sliding door moment for them. Now, I've obviously run this podcast for over a year now, and I have more than 30 stories but I'm also interested in those people who are in this transformational space who are actually not just awakening themselves and they're awakening others. What is the mechanism? As Bashar talks about it, it's the permission slip. Are they going through astrology or meditation or yoga or breath work? Are they just going within and getting a sense of what's really going on? So that's what all the Exit the Matrix experience about. I'm going to let you get back to the interview, but if you want to join me, go to Exit the Matrix dot today, forward slash ETM with me, which stands for Exit the Matrix with me. So that's Exit the Matrix today, forward slash ETM with me sign up. I'd love for you to come along. I'm creating courses. There's currently courses in there around for D Gratitude. There's more courses to come. I've creating custom GPTs on how you can exit the Matrix and helping you uncover what lies beneath your subconscious and holding you back. And Also other custom GPTs that I'm sure you're going to love. And most of the speakers are actually really motivating me. So I'm creating courses, I'm creating ebooks, I'm creating experiments you can try, I'm creating tools that you can use. And I'm also writing a book. So at some stage I'll get to writing the book. At this moment, it's just all about the research. And I hope you choose to join me because I'm really excited about this experiment. So I'll get back to the interview now. Enjoy yourself. And as always, here's to your success.

So what we've just done is we've actually decoupled anger and hurting others because we've been taught it's the same by people for whom it was the same. But it's not. We can completely feel our anger and it's okay. And it's good actually to do that because it's an access point to our power. However, it's not okay to let your anger hurt someone. Soon as you pause into that decoupling of this relationship, you say, oh, so what then are the healthy ways to feel my anger? And what are the ways to not let it hurt others that I can be aware of? Because then now I can access this place of power within me consciously knowing that I'm not going to let it hurt others.

Wow.

Yeah, right? And all of a sudden the amount of freedom and choice and opportunity that we have is mind blowing because we say, oh, so then what Do I do with this? Because it's okay for me to feel anger finally decades into my life, and if I consciously know that I'm not going to let it hurt someone, then it actually gives me more access to it. And so this is that moment where people are burning stuff down in their business, in their lives. They're so angry, but they're so turned on and they're so fired up and, you know, they're unstoppable. This is our power, Jane. And we avoided because we were told, good girls don't get angry. Anger is shouting anger. It's. It's anger. So many things. You know, anger will hurt someone, so we've been avoiding it until it builds up so much that it either comes up sideways in a harsh remark to our loved ones or, you know, whatever that might be, or road rage. Right. So it comes out sideways because we've been squashing it down.

Yeah.

And. Or it eventually becomes this thing that it's like, we're not hanging out here. We're burning this down and we're creating something new. Let's go. Which can be healthy and people view as being really positive. But honestly, it's a. It's a short cycle. You get burnt out from that very quickly. Right. I think we've all experienced that. So this access point of re relating to our emotions gives us access to them and gives us a point of consciousness when we feel the sensation arising in our body. To disconnect the old story and say, oh, anger is here. Okay, cool. Something powerful is coming through. And now I know how to be with this and not let it hurt someone. So I'm gonna go and be in my practice around it. Right. I'm gonna be in my practice around anger. So you start doing this for anger, sadness, shame, even joy. Right. You have to re. Relate to all of these emotions so that you now have a new relationship in terms of how they live inside you. Because when we have the stuff we grew up with, it is so hard to live a fully lived life. It's so hard to be truly fulfilled every day because we are just governed by sensations that feel unfamiliar to us. Training that is told us to avoid or distract from them, and then a relationship to them that makes us scared of ever feeling them. We're not going to get anywhere. Right. And so this is why this is a gateway.

There's so much there. I like, I could unpack this for hours, but I was like, how long.

Do you want to chat for?

Because I know, right? Luckily, we set a time Limit. But I just want to go a little bit off, off track there because when you talked about this, you know, these emotions and these anger and the shame, and I'm sitting there going, what a gift. I mean, I have to keep every time I feel these feelings. What a gift. You know, where is that? And what is. How can I decouple? As you showed that beautiful example and how to do, strikes me that, like the work of the body code and all of these other physicalities, it could help with disease and depression and pain. Like there's a health effect as well, right. Of carrying.

Absolutely.

These, these.

I've had people come to me with such crazy anxiety, you know, like they just literally got promoted. This is a corporate client of mine. They were just promoted to like the C, C level of a large, large company in the US and we're having so much anxiety about, am I really worthy for this? Am I really ready for this step? Am I going to do good? That they were getting acid reflux.

Wow.

Like, their, like their stomach was churning and spitting and I mean, from this. Right.

And that's worth not even emotions.

Yeah, yeah. Right. And so it's, it's like trouble even. Right. And so it's just like this. Whoa. And then that they're blocked by this. And then, you know, we did one month and then they're like, I'm rocking it up or, you know, and it's not a long journey to do this. You know, it's not like a year long apprenticeship or something like that. It's just like it's knowing how to shift in that moment. All so, you know, the way everything that I do, I summarize into two words. Are you, you ready for them? Practice versus pattern. So everything in life, we're either in a pattern that's been set for us by somebody else in our childhood that when we run it, we get safe, typical, you know, results over and over again. And for some people, that works because they've chosen, you know, people pleasing or overachieving as their way to cope. And that gives them the result of achievement and, and connection and what they feel is connection and validation. Right. So we run those programs because those are the patterns that we have. And some people have those, some people have. I go numb, I disconnect, I pull away. We all have different patterns. But if you're experiencing in your life a stagnancy because you're doing, getting the same result over and over again, what you need to do is shift into practice. Right? And the flu, the method is A set of these practices that for every pattern that you begin to notice, most of these are running on subconsciously without us being aware of it. And there's a consciousness there. But as you notice a pattern, you shift into the practice. Right. And so this is the real freedom that's available is that you just realize, okay, I don't know what my patterns are, but I know I'm getting the same results over and over again, and I'm tired of it and I want a more fulfilling life because I just feel like I'm living out this pattern every day.

Don't lie. Right.

Yeah. This is. This is why you're feeling the way you're feeling is because you're not really living your true expression. You're living a pattern that was given to you in your childhood. And then when you realize, okay, I can do a practice to unwind this, and I feel worthy to be with that result. And I can be with the emotions that's going to bring. Because it's going to bring overwhelm. It's going to. Like when you have such freedom in your life, such expression, it can be scary, overwhelming. Too much joy. You know, people don't know how to calibrate. It's when you jump out of a plane and you're like, oh, my God, I'm in the sky falling. And it takes like 10 seconds of falling and the parachute goes off and you're like, wait, wait, what happened? Your body's trying to catch up. And so when you experience the freedom of being out of your pattern, it is overwhelming. Folks, this is why you're not doing it. You're not doing it because you're overwhelmed, because the emotions that go with it and the worthiness that's required to step through the door fully. But once you turn that around and you have the practices, you can slowly begin to unwind this. And in a short amount of time, you're just living in a different way. And you're learning how to be with the abundance of emotionality that comes with the abundance of being fully alive. Those two things go hand in hand. And you need to be capable to handle that to get that fulfillment you're seeking.

So what's striking me here is that the conditioning from our past and we know hurt people, hurt people, and our parents and guardians.

And I actually clarify that. I just. One. There's one more layer I want to add.

Yeah.

It's not just that hurt people. Hurt people. Okay. This is what I have found that I think it's a small change this is why I want to bring it, because I think it's important for the listeners. Hurt people, hurt, hurt people. Once you work on your own, hurt, hurt people can no longer hurt you. I realized this for myself doing Bomb. Right. I know. It blew my mind because there's a point where I was like, oh, I.

Was willing to resist that jamin. I was willing to go, yeah, I think this is. You're right.

Once I was with my own hurt, you know, I was bullied. I was, you know, the physical abuse. There's, you know, childhood was not the easiest. Racism, oh my gosh. Like just so much I had to deal with growing up in the US in the way that I did all of that hurt. When I was starting, you know, the flu of practices and, and working with everything that was there, again, tied to emotions and worthiness, stuck in the body patterns stuck in the body, I realized that even hurt people couldn't hurt me. I could just see them as hurt people trying. And that's when I realized hurt people, hurt, hurt people. So if hurt people are hurting you and you're feeling hurt, there's still some hurt inside you that needs to be worked through. That's. That's the key. That's.

I love, I love that definition as adults, but as children, we. We're so malleable. We're not hurt, but we're open to experiences and other people's stories. And what strikes me with this messy middle moving on, there could be. You correct me if you're wrong because you do this stuff right, but could there be a point where you sit there and you go, it was my parents fault and anger and like they had their own stories of their own upbringing that they put onto me, and I'm now a function of that 30, 40, 50 years later. Like, there's anger around that. Is that, Is that something that comes up? Because it just strikes me that I want to blame. Don't we.

It's a blame. Yeah. And so I define what blame is. Right. So if you're finding yourself in a space of blame, and I think this actually comes from Brene Brown, is that blame is simply a method to discharge discomfort. Again, we're so uncomfortable with the patterns that we have. There's an emotional layer there that we're not willing to be with because there's. There's shame, there's regret, there's sadness, there's anger, there's anguish. There's all of these things. And so the first thing we want to do is blame our parents, blame our Socioeconomic situation, blame our boss, blame our spouse, blame whoever. Right. Because it's a way of discharging discomfort. But the reality, Jane, and everyone listening, is that the highest path here, the most conscious creatorship path available, the most fully lived path available, is to actually not discharge the discomfort through blame. Because that's going to create resentment and solidified in the body and ruin connection and actual spaces of, you know, connection and validation that you can have access to and is actually to learn how to be with the discomfort of the emotions. Right. Because when we feel anger about the patterns that we've picked up from our childhood, which are not to blame for our parents, they did the best they could with what they had. They didn't have Google, didn't have parenting books, didn't have open AI chat, GPT. They didn't have any of this stuff. We have all.

I had all those things. So I'm pretty sure my son's going to blame me at some stage for something. There's no perfect parenting, is there?

Yeah, you can't avoid. I mean, we, you know, Ariana, my wife, we teach conscious parenting. We practice it. It's a big part of our lives. We're not perfect. We're still, still not perfect. You can't be, you know, we're humans. So that's, I think, a really key concept and idea is being with that discomfort.

Yep.

And say it brings you to anger about it. It now you're accessing a power that you have within you to resolve it and change it and be with the hurt that's there. Right. So this is. The encouragement is. Yes, we can go through. And I've gone through that where I blamed my parents. And then eventually I was just like, how could I? They were, they were, you know, young. They were in a new country. They were trying to figure out life. They're, you know, they didn't have all these tools. They didn't have, you know, my grandfather's died very young, and so, you know, they. They didn't have a lot of things. They did their best. And then there's three of us, you know, and we weren't making a lot of money. And so you put all that together. Of course I'd slap a kid and say, just go, you know, quiet down. Go do whatever. Like, of course I can understand that, especially as a parent now when I, I'm like, how do my parents do this? You know, they did a great job. So, you know, that moment of, like, recognizing what your parents did was the best that they could do. Is also in a moment of freedom, because when the blame is done and you can be with the discomfort of. I. I was just a kid. This is a great story. And I can't remember where it came from, but I wanted to share it here about, like, childhood trauma. Yeah. And it's this idea that, sure, many of us maybe had physical abuse, got slapped, spanked, whatever it might have been, right? Or maybe there's alcoholism, narcissism, you know, bipolar, you know, whatever people have experienced. So that's kind of like trauma with a capital T. Right. Like, okay, there's actual stuff there where you were treated unkindly for a variety of whatever reasons may be present and safe. Right. But then there's also, like, imagine this. You're a baby, you're in the crib, you want nourishment. What does that look like? Milk from Mama. So you go. And then mama comes into the room. You see her, you see the. The breasts. You go, ah, my nourishment is coming. And then a doorbell rings. Yeah. You don't register the doorbell because you have no idea what a doorbell is. But what you feel, what you notice and experience is mom is coming towards you with your nourishment. Then she turns and leaves you. Why? Because she doesn't want to answer the door with baby on the boot. Right. She wants to go take care of that, then come back to you. So she goes away, and you feel rejected. You feel. You feel all of these things as you're not capable of ascertaining and clarifying the experience of what's going on. So even in that innocent moment of a parent who might have been completely 100% loving present, all of those things just went to go do something that you didn't register, but in your body is stored this feeling of unworthiness, rejection, not being prioritized. Right. Even though she came back two minutes later with the mail, picked you up, and did everything, it's still in our bodies. Does that make sense? We cannot avoid this. So anyone who's like, oh, no, I'm good. I'm like, God, oh, my God. That's. I'm sorry, that's delusion. All of us have this. And the moment we can connect into, it's okay for us to be hurt people walking around that we are all hurt people, until we begin to resolve that, that's the first step of liberation, is to say, yeah, I've been hurt, you know, in whatever way, because I didn't understand what occurred. You know, that's. That's where we begin to open up and say, if I've been hurt, I'm not perfect. I'm not shiny, right? I am. I have vulnerabilities, and I want to be seen in those. But I. It's too overwhelming for me to be with that. There's too much discomfort here. And so these are the paths and avenues of what I mean by worthiness. It's like the worthiness to reclaim all of ourselves, knowing that, yes, we have been hurt, we have been programmed to no fault of our own. Just the way that life is handed to us. The quicker we can acknowledge and accept that and move into the practices that help us get out of our patterns, the more fully liberated of a life that we can live.

So I'm going to jump over the practices that get us out of the pattern because I'm sure that's a whole new masterclass. Let's assume that we recognize we're hurt, we're disassociating these emotions. We've got this conscious awareness in the moment of what's coming up. We have a sense of worth and unworthiness, and we're fine with it all. And we're now at this point where we're like, I'm not going to burn it all down. But what was the past is no longer acceptable to who I am now and how I know myself. Then there's this conversation that has to be had with this significant other which essentially says, darling, I'm different. Love me for who I am, I guess, but. And I know in my personal kind of journey of, you know, changing, people know me as one thing. And if I bring this in, it's going to be so difficult. And, you know, I have to keep things very separate because, you know, I'm going to be judged by the property. People won't understand the marketing beef. And the marketing people understand the mindset bit. And the. The mindset. Pete may think that intuition, all these other things are a bit, you know, too much. And then if I put AI in, well, the intuition, people think that AI is like completely, you know, some unconscious dystopian world. And for me, I had these. All of these kind of the different versions of Jane where I'd had success and felt worth. But there was this point that I still knew that I couldn't bring them together because I felt there was a potential separation, which was if I did bring it all together and everyone saw it all, then I would be separated from how they saw me originally. Like this. Right.

The worthiness, peace. Yeah, exactly.

And so that that tension around being okay with it is, you know, kind of what we've talked into, the practices, etc. But there's also that conversation that's with the partner. And I know you, you and your wife do a lot of work in, in conscious partnerships as well and relationships. How do you have that conversation?

Yeah, absolutely. So I love what you're pointing to and I want to just clarify that I'm not in a camp where I think that it's only right and correct if you are fully owning every part of you in what you do in your business. So I don't think there's an ideal kind of outcome. I don't think that it's like, oh, you must be that. Otherwise you're wrong. I think people will be in their different points of their journey and they might need to keep certain things separated in that moment, but eventually you are going to get to a point where it becomes one. And I've gone through that same journey and it was right for me at the time to do. You know, I teach conscious sexuality, I teach networking to corporations, I teach speakers how to speak, I teach the fully lived method. You know, I do a variety of things that are seemingly unrelated, but to me they're all the same because they're all, all part of exactly making money, making love and being a dad. Three things that I love the most.

So you should say that. I said to my mom recently, she said, can you explain this Recode for God mode? Are you telling people they're God? And I said, yes. She said, are you saying you're God? I said, yes, I am God. I'm divine within. She said, are you telling people that you're God? She said, darling, the church will get you. It's here. It's her. Say, you know you're going to get in trouble. I'm like, but Mom, I think you're God too. And she's like, you can't tell me I'm God. I see God in you, Mum. And we had this kind of conversation and she was like, I think I'm very proud of what you're doing, but just don't say you're God. I'm like, I'm not telling people to worship me as godmom. I'm telling you I worship myself as my own God consciousness.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Not a dogma. It's just my sovereign right to be who I want to be. And it was interesting with loved ones, you're having this conversation, you want to be respectful, respectful of their position. Right. And it's the same with, you know, your. Your spouse. You want to be respectful, or maybe not. It's like, I'm going to tear it all down. But you want to be respectful if you have that kind of awareness. But it's still a difficult conversation.

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, say you're in a moment of transition, you've got a partner, you want to have a conversation with them. How do you go about doing this? Right. So first and foremost, you've got to set up a context for that communication. I think that's really important of just saying, hey, you know, and I hate when people are like, hey, I want to check in with you about something. Can I talk to you? Can we set up some time? What does that do? It gets the other person always offensive, so you can't do it that way. So here's the first step that I suggest is when you go to them, and this could be anyone, you know, so let's just imagine it's your spouse in this case, and you have this thing. You need to find this common ground that is going to work for you both. Right? So, hey, you know, to just be like, hey, Jane, you know, I've been noticing lately, you know, we've just kind of been in the grind and, you know, like, our. We haven't really been really on the same team. And I've been thinking about some things that can help us really feel more like teammates and bring more aliveness into our lives, into our relationship. And I want to share these ideas with you, and I'd love to create a time sometime this week where we can do that. How does that feel?

Much better. Because I know what's coming.

Right? Right. And you know, that is going to be mutually beneficial to both of you because you finding your aliveness in this new way of being, that you are being able to bring that to your partner is going to create more connection and more excitement in your lives. Right? So you just come to them not saying, hey, you know, you know, things have been so shitty and la da da. It's just like, hey, I've been noticing certain things are challenging, and I've been thinking about them, and I want to share what my thoughts are that can bring us into more connection, into more aliveness.

And you've set the goal right. Of the conversation, and we set the.

Goal that is, this is not about me transitioning. This is not about blah, blah, blah. This is about more aliveness in our relationship. And I think we both want that. And for me, that avenue Looks like being in this transition of chasing my dreams or whatever it might be. And I think people will be quite surprised like how well this works. So I think that's the first aspect is just even how do you communicate that initial. I'm noticing something is shifting. I want to talk to you about it, but you don't get them defensive and worried. You say, I've been thinking about what can bring us more of blank. And when they're invited into that and they go, okay, and then they're going to have a time in the space where they're ready to hear you, then a conscious conversation can actually be had.

Makes sense. So really setting the intention and the context gives an opportunity to take that emotion out of it completely as well. You. It is unemotional, isn't it?

Yeah. And. And the other thing that I always suggest is to speak about it in the. So let's just jump into the comment. I have a whole like two day weekend training I do about this kind of conversation, you know, people practicing it. And then the best part is on the second day I say send that first message. And everybody sends messages to their estranged children or to their mother who's annoying or to ex partner or the person that they hurt in high school and they're like, literally they feel able to do it. So it's quick, quick to do now. But one other piece I'll drop here that I think is very easy to. To get is speak during that time in the conversation as parts. So if you say, okay, Jane, thanks for sitting down having this conversation with me. I am changing and I am no longer going to be working at my job and I'm going to quit in two weeks and I am going to take on a new career as a coach teaching AI tools. And I want that to be accepted by you. Wow. Oh my God. I've lost everything, right?

Yep.

So try this one out. Hey, Jane. So I've been noticing that there's a part of me that just loves my job, loves the stability gives us in our household, loves the routine that we're in love and can see the benefit of how things are just kind of really like predictable for us. And I have a part that's noticing this predictability is kind of killing our intimacy and our aliveness. And it's just kind of me personally just walking around the house feeling exhausted all the time. And there's a part of me that really is feeling more and more clear that I'm ready to make a leap, that I feel no longer in alignment with the job and this nine to five in this schedule. And I really want to go and pursue this other thing, and I want to share all these parts with you because they're all here. The one that you know and love and trust, which is. Has a predictable salary and hours and schedule, but the one who's noticing that, that's actually creating challenges for me personally and for us. And the part that's ready to step into something different. And I want to present all these parts to you so you can see all of who I am. So the ones that you know already and, like, want and feel safe with, but also the ones that are emerging so now we can be with all of them, not just I've changed.

Yeah, you've taken them on the journey.

Taking them on the journey and presented that parts of me have not changed. I'm still here. I'm still who you are, but this is what is changing, and I want to make sure that there's space for that.

Nice.

Yeah.

And, you know, it's interesting. So. So, as I mentioned before we met on the I Am Creation retreat, there's another one that's going to be November, I think, 2025. I'm sure there'll be more next year as well, for people listening to this in the future. And Elena brought everyone together, and you opened it, essentially, the session, and you opened it with these communication exercises, which was nice to get to know people. We're moving around. But there was such powerful. I think, the experiment about just saying yes and no.

Yeah.

Do you want to just take us through that? Because I found that, first of all, so confronting. And when I got so overwhelmed with saying no for something that I wanted or, you know, doing something that felt so misaligned, I kind of just surrendered to it and gave up, and it just became easier, which I'm assuming that's what you wanted us to do. But if you could take us through.

That, it's a little bit like exposure to therapy, you know, and so, yeah, so, you know, ultimately what I do. What was that?

You are spar.

Yeah. The idea is a little bit like. So, you know, I. I get people into groups of three, and one person is kind of. They're. They're standing with their eyes closed, and there's two other people who take on the role of yes and no. Right. And so what we're doing is we're communicating these external signals to the body. And the person who is receiving is noticing what comes alive in the body when they hear this. Because when we hear it in the moment. Our initial response is to go into our pattern and block it or receive it, or chase the yes and block the no, right? Or whatever it might be. But this is a moment to actually see how it's landing in our system. And so one person will give us, you know, no, no, no, no, no. And we begin to notice, like, what does that do? And each person is so different, right? This is the diversity of the shares afterwards, the way it's facilitated as what I love. Because for some people, they feel shut down, they feel awkward, they feel exposed. Other people, they feel determined, and they go into that response. We all have different responses. Then we get yeses, right? And then we see how that lands in the body. And then we notice which parts light up and we begin to be curing a relationship with those emotions that are in response to getting those inputs of yes and no. And then we kind of have this battle sort of thing where they're going back and forth and we're getting both and we're being obliterated with external signals of whatever. It's like, how do I find myself when everyone around me is giving me yeses and no's around, oh, I like your program, I'm signing up, or I don't like your program, I'm rejecting you, and blah, blah, blah. And, you know, two people like your post, but then 100 people like your other post. And what was the difference between the post? It's like we're all day given this yes and no signals, and then we're overwhelmed with it and we're kind of jerked around. So the idea here is to be in that embodiment of the emotionality and the sensations that arise when we're in the storm and to find who we are and to notice what's up and create a relationship, to be able to be with that consciously beautiful.

It's seemed to me such a childish exercise.

But, yeah, the child really. Come on. People like the. The roles they play.

Yeah, but it just had such a profound, you know, the experience of it was so profound because you think this. Like when you explain it, someone says, yo, yes. And someone's going to yell no. But when you actually have someone going, yes, yes, yes. There is that physicality of, you know, reinforcement and validation and happiness and these positive emotions. And then when someone's screaming no at you and that's all you're hearing, it's like, I want the yes. Like, where's the yes? This is horrible. And this is aversion. And when they're Doing it together, it was so overwhelming. But as you said, what was such a simple exercise gave me such a profound experience of how that turns up in my life. So I see now when people say no to me and you know, you hear the marketing people say, if they say no, it's like, just not right now. And I don't even go there now I hear a no. And I haven't taken on an experience of this means that I'm not worthy, or this means that, you know, my stuff's dumb, or this means that, you know, I can't have extras for dinner or whatever that is. But it really gave me a sense of, you know, a more awareness of how unless we're vigilant and aware, there's so many stories that are coming up that is just part of these patterns. And as we kind of take them off and take them off and take them off, there's more. And like you said, it's all a journey. Like we don't get to the end result and go, I'm here forever.

The new layer comes in. The new layer comes in. So it's a constant practice. You know, it's like you have to be always ready and willing to meet with that next layer is that's coming for you.

Okay, well, look, we have covered so much. I am so grateful for your time and. And people can definitely reach out to you. Website's the easiest, isn't it? Jam and Patel?

Yeah. I mean, you can go to my website, you can find me in the Facebook and Instagram. There's not too many Jam and J. Patel's, but you can go to jaminjaypatel.com that's the clearest way to start. And then from there you can find my socials. Yeah.

So everything from sexuality to corporate coaching to parenting to relationships and being a speaker and hopefully one day emulate your incredible awards and accolade. Acculation. What's the word? Not accolations. It's acknowledgments for how amazing.

Acknowledgments. Yeah.

But thank you so much, Jamie. I really appreciate, because this has given me a whole more tools to navigate that kind of, you know, rebirth and, and almost grief and saying goodbye to the past, but lovingly in a way that actually has no emotions to it. So just even the tool of decoupling the emotion was so powerful. So I really appreciate you.

I love that and thank you so much for having the conversation because I think it's a really important one. And I hope that this serves anyone who's listening. And if anyone is listening and you know, here's what I want to say is probably you are in a state of overwhelm right now. If you're listening and trying to find some guidance into where you can go next, you're not going to get there until you come back into that centered state. And so the free gift that I offer my website, jimjpatel.com freegift is five life hacks to overcome overwhelm. And it's a 12 minute training and there's five really clear life hacks you can use immediately to shift out of overwhelm more into a centered state. So you can actually think about what is it that I want to be creating in my life consciously. So if that's exciting at all, I can share the link with you as.

Well if you want to definitely put that.

But yeah, jam and jpatel.com because overwhelm.

Is one of those emotions that it's hard to get out of sometimes, isn't it? Yeah.

Yeah. And there's some quick hacks that can just help shift a lot of things. And then, you know, you, the first time it's like, okay, a little bit light, but you use it for a week, use it for two weeks, you're like boom, boom, boom. It's, it's just, just you're flowing, you know, it just really.

I'm starting out definitely. Thank you, Jamin, and happy travels. I know you're heading overseas again and hopefully we'll see you in Bali sometime.

Oh, great. Looking forward to it. Thanks, Jane. Catch you later.

Okay, goodbye everyone. And as always, here's to your success. Bye for now.

Thank you for listening to Exit the Matrix Stories of Success. Make sure you subscribe to Future episodes@ww.exatthematrix.IO Until next time, here's to your success.