Jane Slack-Smith: The dynamite personality in finance!

Hi, everyone, and welcome to another edition of Talking Finance with Dion. I've got the lovely Jane Slack Smith with me. How are you, Jane?

I'm wonderful. And yourself?

I'm good, thank you so much. And again, thank you for taking time to have a chat to me. We've rescheduled a couple of times, so I've had Internet issues, so I haven't paid my bills, so thank you for playing along.

That's always difficult while we're working at home, isn't it?

Now, we were just chatting before, which I'm gutted we didn't record it, but we met about a year ago, in a sense, where we caught up at a function, broker industry function, and I took off and I forgot my bag.

And I rescued your laptop and all of your secrets.

You did. And I don't know why I did that. And then, you know, the funny thing was, in my mind, we've chatted before because obviously I work for Citibank, I've worked for Macquarie bank and so forth. But that discussion we had just before you said, I didn't actually make that much of an impression because I was just trying to sell my shit, basically.

And I was like, I don't really have a lot of Citibank type clients, but he's a nice guy. I'll listen to what he's got to say.

Well, thank you very much. It's sort of. I suppose it's one of those things where it takes me. Yeah. I have to take me aback, really, because I. I do. You do your. Your usual, you know, appointments to. To meet up with brokers to try to, you know, sell your proposition and then it. You don't really, I suppose, take a step back and go, hey, did I actually make an impression? Did they. Did they actually really listen to me or, you know, or was this to them just another, you know, a sales pitch, which they were just going through the motions.

And, you know, what's really interesting about observation is it's exactly how we are to our clients as brokers. So are we just another broker with the sales pitch, or are we actually someone who's trying to connect on the human side and understand really what they're trying to do?

Absolutely. And it wasn't until we. That sort of conversation recently in the last year that we actually had a normal talk.

Yep, Wasn't it? Yeah. I think. I think I also got whipped by you in golf. Putt putt golf.

But to be fair, that was mini golf, not real golf. So. Yeah, but no, it was good because when we did talk, and we didn't actually talk, we didn't talk shop, we actually, we actually talked about, you know, I suppose, what you were doing and then you were talking about what I was doing and then that was more. That's how the relationship was more built.

Yeah, yeah. And I think, I think that's a really interesting point because a lot of times you go into a meeting with an objective in mind and you can actually miss a lot of the subtle kind of feedback or information that people are giving you. And because as brokers and people, individuals, you know, parents, you know, all these connections that you have, there's actually more that you can offer other than just maybe a home loan or what you think that person needs and being able would be aware and perceptive of that and being open to where the communication can take you. You learn so much and like us, you know, we've become mates and we can chat and muck around. Whereas before you were just trying to sell me a Citibank loan.

Well, you know, you get that, that mood. Right. Well, not mood, I suppose, sorry. You get into a certain set of behaviors when you work for corporate. So every appointment was technically around about 45 minutes to myself. And you go on with an objective, which is you try to tell the prospect of broker what your niches were. So. And you do, you forget to have the human element out of it. It's just, you know, meeting after meeting after meeting. And then I suppose, I suppose one of gnarly things is that you're just, you're playing the numbers game. You hope that, you know, 20% of the meetings actually brings business.

Well, you know, it's funny because most brokers have come to brokings through a different channel to, you know, home loans or real estate or whatever it is. And that was the experience for me. I was an explosives expert in the mining industry. So I studied mining engineering at university. And I remember going to my first, like worked at coal mines and all these different mines, but my first job with an explosives company and I said, there's no way. I'm not a salesperson, I'm not selling, I'm not marketing for you. Like, I'm going to give them the facts. I'm going to design the blast, I'm going to make it, you know what they want. But don't roll me out in these sales pictures to sell. And it wasn't until like a year later I realized that I kept getting involved in these meetings when we're going to talk to new clients and they're like. I was like, wait a second, how did you get me into sales? And they said, well, you're actually our best salesperson because all you talk them out of things they don't need. And so they're going to trust everything you do say that you do need. And they're like, so you're an extra. You're a natural salesperson. You just didn't even know it.

No.

There you go.

Well, there you go. And that is actually a very interesting fact. Scary. What? That you're probably one of the only qualified explosives experts in the finance industry. Right?

I know. Just don't cross me. That's why I looked twice when you left the bag next to me. I'm like, oh, okay. Maybe I should be said checking this out now.

I didn't think about that, but now that you've mentioned it. Yeah. Because I believe off memory, I left the room pretty quick.

Yeah, you made a run for it. You grabbed the phone and took off.

I was like, oh, hello, in this day and age. Well, pre Covid. That was quite suspicious, wasn't it? Now, now, I suppose if you walked.

Around with the mask on back then we would have been really.

Absolutely.

But it's funny, you know, I remember I was flying back from. I had done a blast, set a blast off up in Mount Isa or somewhere and I was flying back through the Brisbane airport. And you know, you go through security and they're like, have you touched explosives? I'm like, oh, yeah, actually, I'm sorry, I didn't have a chance to get changed. And so then it might come up as a positive. And the guy's gone, oh God. They didn't give us the procedures in case we got a positive. So just go through. And I was like, wait a second, I don't feel so safe anymore. I don't know what to do. And they're letting people through go, oh yeah, I have been touching these positives. So they're only testing the people who haven't.

Yeah, there you go. Well, anyway, the experience at the airport will be something I will surely sorely missed for a few months to come. But anyway, so what caused you to, I suppose you can call it go into finance, you know, because was explosive, not deadly enough in the scary enough way.

So I did study mining engineering at uni and you know, I wanted to specialize and I specially I spent a lot of time in the coal mines and you know, first female to work underground. And then everyone went on strike back in 1989, showing my age but you know, so I had been through, you know, the coal mining kind of industry and I really enjoyed the blasting. Who wouldn't, right at the end of the day, pushing a button at the end of the day and walking away from all your troubles. And during that period of time I met my now husband Todd and he was saying, oh look, you know, over in New Zealand I met this property investor and, and he was young and I was mowing lawns for him. He had all these properties and he was saying, you know, the first one's hardest. And I was like, my boss at that time was saying to me, please get a mortgage, because if you settle down with a mortgage, I know I've got you for life. You're trapped. And I thought, well, that ain't going to happen to me. No white picket fences here. And then so Todd was talking about, you know, property and you know, I started reading and being the researcher, I started thinking, God, I have to be able to crack this code. Like it can't be that hard. And I went to all the two hour free seminars and you know, this is around the year 2000, doing all of that and late 90s. And I've got to the point where I kept listening to people and they were saying, so, you know, I lost everything and then I made it back and I've got a, you know, Mercedes or whatever it was and you know, I'm a successful property investor so buy my course or my property or whatever it was. But then nothing was really new that they were telling me. So I got to the point where I started watching how they were presenting and then I thought, wait a second, they've just told me all the things they did wrong and they all lost all their money at some stage. I was like, well, how about I just jump over that I'm going to lose my money. So I started studying all the mistakes that the investors were making and then I thought, well, I have to be able to put this into a process. So there was 15,655 suburbs Australia. I've got all the data of the last 20 years. Which ones outperformed the others. If I can hack this to look at. And I was in Melbourne at the time, if I can hack this to look at the suburbs within 10ks of the CBD that I can afford, how would I then minimise my risk? So risk assessment was what I did daily as a explosives expert. What's the consequence and the likelihood of something going wrong and can I minimise it? So I was like, well if I'm buying an investment property. What is the typical number of renters in Australia? 30%. Okay. So I don't want under 30% renters in my suburbs. So I got from like 15,655 suburbs down to the, you know, four or five that actually I could afford. And then, you know, well, it's like, what's another measure of need? And it's vacancy rate. So if there's a vacancy rate less than 3%. So I basically just hacked down to three suburbs. I bought my first property for $425,000. I spent $50,000 on renovation. Nine months later it was worth $700,000. I pulled the money out, did it again, did it again, Thought this is kind of cool. Taught my friends how to do it. They were making money, more money with their properties than they were in their jobs. And then I was like, I just need new friends. I've got to get more friends and teach more people how to do this. Like, everyone worries about money and, you know, it's the cause of most divorces and it's the ca. You know, all this discontinuity with families breaking up and kids going through these terrible things. I thought, well, if I can, if I can solve people's money problems and I've got like a formula to do it, I'll just choose to do that. And at that stage, my mortgage broker, who then became my mentor, said to me, well, how are you going to protect your property portfolio by talking to people about buying property. You have to have professional indemnity insurance. I was like, how do I do that? It's like, become a mortgage broker. So I became a mortgage broker purely wanting to talk to people about how to buy properties, where to buy properties that fit their long term goals. I knew that finance was the enabler and I knew that would protect my portfolio. So I thought I could do this in my spare time, as everyone does. And I was working like 50, 60 hours a week at work and then doing like 20, 30 at home as a broker back in 2005. And I thought I should probably just, you know, suck this and get it right. So, like all things, you know, I imitation of people who have done it right and learning what they've done wrong. I got a mentor. So Rolf became my mentor at that stage and then.

And that was before that was even composing.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And so I've always done that. I've, I have mentors now and I paid up to $60,000 a year for a mentor to just jump over the problems. And so I can actually get ahead and understand and put my time and effort into where I can do the most good. And you know, as a, I now do mentor, not mortgage brokers, but I now mentor people who want to grow portfolios and get over the money problems and get on with life. So, you know, I've kind of come that full circle. But for me it was very much, okay, how do I minimize the risk? I'm starting a mortgage broking business because I have no idea. So I wrote down 30 questions and I rang 30 brokers. And it was easy to ask for forgiveness than permission. They get halfway through the questions. Usually I go, wait a second, who are you? I'm like, oh, I'm about to start a business in mortgage broker. And they're like, are you giving you all the best KPIs? So I started with, you know, who do you aggregate through? How do you get clients? Do you pay real estate agents? What type of laptop do you have? What kind of phone plan do you have? Like I had pre starting my investors choice mortgages business. I had the, the absolute Rolls Royce business ready and set up. And being a good engineer, I spent three months writing my procedures down to, to what my PA would be doing weekly, monthly, quarterly and annually. Six years before I employed her.

Wow. I know.

That's an engineer for you, right? Boring. That's so precise.

Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, in terms of what you were doing, especially with explosives, you make a mistake, people die. So yeah, you have to be precise.

Right, exactly, exactly. So. And you know, so I've always gone into things in a, well, how can I shortcut this? By using the best possible knowledge of someone who's done it before and can show me the problems. And B, how can I minimize the risk? So I've done that with my business, I've done that with the property investing. And for me it's just like, well, you're going to make an investment in knowledge at some stage and you do it in two ways. One is time. You can go and learn it yourself and take years or money and investing in someone who's done it before. And you know, I choose that.

And that, that's very timely because I've said it many, many times before in a sense where you know, when new to industry, brokers many choose the shortcut. And you know that don't pay properly for mentoring expecting a Rolls Royce. And that's, that's not going to happen. You got to invest in your business before you even get a cent back. But, you know, that's. I'm digressing there. Can we just. Given the time that we have left and so forth of the podcast, because I'd love to do some more with you. Just. Just sort of trying to go through the last couple of years because something pretty significant happened to you and you've overcome that. So I'd love for the audience to have listened to what that was.

So I had, you know, the mortgage broking business was going very well. I had everything proceduralised within the first year. I had outsourced processing, I'd worked out how to be efficient in what I did, you know, won Australia's Mortgage Broker of the Year twice and just went, well, now it's time. I can put my time and effort into what I really want to do, which was that education piece. And at that time, once again, who's the best person selling online education authentically, honestly, without the steak knives, I couldn't see it happening in Australia. I looked overseas. So I was then flying backwards and forwards from the US for a year with a mentor who taught online education, put together my courses in the your property success business. And then pretty much I was doing 10 hours a week with my team in mortgage broking maximum. And that was the strategy session of reviewing files and client scenarios, etc. And then the rest I was doing like 40, 50 hours a week selling courses, which is a lot harder. And then. And, you know, build up a community of 30,000 people, you know, you serve them. And it got to a point where I've always been very disciplined about, you know, if I put my mind to something, my. I know that I can achieve it and do it. And there was this weird thing that was happening. I kept putting on weight and I was going, this is weird. I'm exercising, I'm eating well, I can't work this out. I'd go to the doctor and they'd go, nothing's wrong, it doesn't feel right. Anyhow, it turned out that I had very slight signs of Cushing's disease, which is a brain tumor in the pituitary gland. And the pituitary gland affects diabetes hormones, thyroid cortisol. And all I had was this high cortisol, which everyone's saying, oh, you're an A type person, so that's why you're running high all the time. And the doctors previously had, you know, moved past that. But it's one of the most. I think it's 1 in 5 million people have it already diagnosed with it, but 30% of people in autopsies are found to have a pituitary gland tumor. So, you know, as people go to the doctor and they go, the doctor says, I think you've got thyroid problems and fix that up. And they're like, oh, but now I have diabetes, so a lot of people go searching for it. So I was landing on a family from a family holiday from Fiji, easter last year, 2019, turned my phone, the doctor said, we know what it is, get in here, you have to see a neurosurgeon. And like, we're recording this around August 2020, and it's now one year since I had that pituitary gland tumor removed. And they, it's not like the old times where they cut into your head. You know, they go up through the nose, they excavate it just like a good mining engineer and stick something up, pull it out. And the next day my cortisol was normal and it was whilst I was in recovery. So they were saying, you know, it's going to take three or four hours in operation, took about two hours. I came out in recovery and they give you drugs. And then it was halfway through, about half an hour after that operation finished, and the nurse said to me, oh, what do you do? And I said, oh, I'm a mortgage broker. I help people, you know, get over their financial worries using residential property so I can get on with life and live to their full potential and create intergenerational change. And she said, oh, we're about to buy our first home. I was like, oh, where are you buying? And she's like, house and land package. But I'm like, no, you can't do that. I'll tell you why. There's no scarcity. And there's this and there's this. And she's like, wait a second, there's these two other nurses about to buy one too. So I started running a masterclass in recovery after brain surgery. You are such a hustler. I know, right? And I was like, I was like, you guys need to know this stuff. I'm like, this is not the forever home. And so in the next 10 days, whilst laying in hospital, I was like, I should put together a first home buyer show, but I should then create a framework so people understand how to buy with an investor mindset. So I spent 15 years teaching investors. I'm like, no one's teaching first home buyers to think like investors. And so then I created this whole kind of framework for first home buyers whilst laying in the hospital bed.

There you go, that's Fantastic. Okay, so we're at the 20 odd minute mark now. I would love to have a chat to you probably part two when we have time the next week or so. Because obviously you know everyone right now In August of 2020, we're in Victoria anyway. We're in stage four lockdown. And we have been in lockdown, I suppose you can call it, since, since March of this year. So any. So the way business has been done has just been turned on its head. But yet I guess with all your design and all your, what do you call, plans and so forth, your business wouldn't be affected that much at all because I guess you were already prepared for something like this.

Yes and no. It really was an opportunity for me to look at the business and look at our costs and say, look at the data. So I had some dashboards set up for me at the beginning of the year to understand where the business was, which put me in a good place to understand it. But you know, we went from having like 33 applications in flight in May, April, May to seven in May, June 5, and we're back up to 30 now. But we definitely had a quiet period. And whereas I could have kind of pivoted and sold courses, I felt very strongly that there was a lot of people taking advantage of people selling courses. So I pulled that back and created a full Wellness Thrive, not just survive series. A series for my investors choice mortgages, clients, a series to help raise money for Kids helpline, we raised $12,000 for them. And then another series on my brain. So I created five support series for people in my network around wellness and helping them. So, yeah, business isn't thriving, but I definitely have made, I guess, a long term effect on helping the people in my community to get to the next stage. And I think, you know, that's where my heart was and where I wanted to put my time and effort during this.

Wow. Well, thank you very much. You know, that's. That's awesome. If we can actually catch up in the next couple of weeks. Sure, let's continue because I love to, you know, pick more of your brains.

Absolutely. And there you go. This is what happens when you leave your bag and run out of the room. You get to meet people.

I'm so glad I wasn't in America when I did that because I could have had a totally different outcome. But no. Jane, thank you so much.

Absolute pleasure. Bye.

Thanks.