ADHD, Diet and the Gut with Dana Kay

Welcome to The Perfect Stool: Understanding and Healing the Gut Microbiome. This is Lindsey Parsons, your host, and today I'll be speaking with Dana Kay, a board-certified holistic health and nutrition practitioner, CEO and founder of the ADHD Thrive Institute, creator of the ADHD Thrive Method for kids, program, and now author of the new book Thriving with ADHD: A Guide to Naturally Reducing ADHD Symptoms in Your Child, about the connection between ADHD, the diet, and gut health, and how to mitigate symptoms naturally. As a mother of a child with ADHD, Dana knows firsthand the struggles that come with parenting a neurodiverse child, but she also knows the freedom that's possible once parents learn to reduce ADHD symptoms. Dana has been featured in Forbes, Authority Magazine, Medium, Thrive Bible, and various others. But before our conversation, if you haven't yet followed or subscribed to the show, be sure to do so. And if you want to get transcripts of the podcast, pop over to my website, HighDesertHealthCoaching.com, and sign up for my newsletter. You'll also get my free ebooklet called Finding Your Root Cause Through Stool and Organic Acids Testing when you sign up. And if you haven't yet done my quiz on which stool test would help you get to your root cause, you can find a link in the show notes and take that. Now onto the show. Welcome to the show, Dana.

Thank you so much for having me, Lindsey Parsons.

It's my pleasure. So I know from the intro that you have a child with ADHD. So can I ask you about your personal story and what led you to the holistic approach to ADHD?

Yeah, definitely. And I think like most sort of alternative health practitioners, there's always that story behind their motivation and it's no different for, for myself. Believe it or not, I was actually an accountant in a previous life, and I had continued— I planned to continue in that field if I— if, if the concerns over my son's health hadn't grown. I always dreamt of being a businesswoman in an office, and my dream came true. But then my son's health started to deteriorate, and at the age of 2, he'd have his meltdowns just like any other terrible 2 child, but then they sort of didn't go away, and they seemed to get worse and worse, and he just would be at the playground and he'd have so much energy compared to any other child. And I kind of sort of felt like I was on this emotional roller coaster. I'd be dealing with so much energy, and then we'd have this massive meltdown, and then for an hour he'd be okay, and then we'd have this massive meltdown again. And it just, it wasn't really what I imagined parenting to be like. And so I'd, I'd ask friends, I'd, I'd talk to teachers in the preschool, and everyone's like, oh, don't worry, he's just a boy, he'll grow out of it. And so I just kept going along with that. And, but things started to get worse, age 3, age 4, and sort of by the time of mid-fours, late fours, that's when sort of the teachers at the preschool started to notice a bit of a difference. And we went to the pediatrician who referred us to a neurodevelopmental psychologist, and he was diagnosed with ADHD. And we were, sorry, a neurodevelopmental psychiatrist. And we were immediately handed prescription medication. And honestly, between you and me, I was relieved with the diagnosis. I was thinking to myself, I'm not a bad mom. This is not my parenting and this is not my fault. There's actually something that is contributing to what's going on in our family. And I was excited to fill the prescription medication, bounced into the drugstore, bounced back out, gave it to him. And that was the thinking to myself that that was finally the thing that was going to help us get help for our family. At first things were okay until they weren't and he started to have all these side effects and we went back to the doctor and they increased the dose. Then they prescribed another medication to counteract the side effects of the first. So he was losing weight, not able to sleep, didn't want to eat, and then he'd have these mammoth, mammoth meltdowns that were worse than before in the afternoon when he was like coming off that medication. And so I was like, yeah, okay, he was able to sit still at preschool, uh, but when he got home it was actually ended up worse than what it was before. And so this sort of continued until my son, who was now 5, was on 3 very strong medications, and the doctor suggested a 4th medication to counteract the anxiety that had now come up from it. And that's when I sort of said, hmm, this doesn't seem right. And I just couldn't do it anymore. And this is where sort of my career path completely changed. And I went back to school. I did my holistic health degree, multiple specific certifications in this particular area. And I really learned that medicine wasn't the only way. I began to learn that ADHD symptoms can be reduced naturally. And I, I learned how food can affect so many aspects. Of our lives, as you have too, Lindsey, and in your story and what you share. And look, today my son is in middle school. He's a teenager. He's thriving. He hasn't been on meds for years, and he's a straight-A student. But right now he does have a B, which he's very upset about, which— but for me, I don't care. Like, the most important thing for me is he's happy and, and my family's happy. And we now have that, that peace and that calm and that balance in our house that I knew that we could get to. And once I learned this and once I saw the changes that all of this had on my own family, I really couldn't keep this information to myself. Yeah, I didn't want anyone else to have to go through the struggles and the challenges that I went through. And I, I've been lucky enough to now have helped over 1,000 other families get to the same place as me, but just so much quicker and without as much, without as much stress.

That's wonderful. Yeah. So tell me about how diet impacts ADHD in kids.

Yeah, so look, I like to, I, I like to think of diet as the foundation. When children are diagnosed with ADHD, the first course of action that most doctors suggest is medication, and many of them don't even tell them that altering the diet can significantly reduce ADHD symptoms. And this is very pretty much exactly what happened with my son. And I, I started to learn about the effects of gut health. That's why I love being on this podcast— gut health on ADHD symptoms and, and how when we heal the gut, ADHD symptoms are reduced or removed completely. And that's why, like, not only, uh, I'll go into the details of why diet does help, but I, I think that it's so important that food should be first. Food should come first. I'm not against medication, but, but it shouldn't be the first course of action, not when food can sometimes be even more effective with absolutely no side effects. So if children continue to eat these processed inflammatory foods like gluten, like dairy and soy, which I'll go into why, those ADHD symptoms are not going to go away because the foods they are eating are exacerbating symptoms. So when we take these foods out, they're so highly inflammatory. And I like to sort of think of it like a bucket, and everyone's born with this metaphorical bucket, and our goal in life is to keep the load on that bucket low. And some of our kids might have been born with stuff in the bucket already. My son, he was born given antibiotics straight away, was in the NICU, was on a CPAP machine, wasn't breastfed. There was a lot going on, and so his bucket already had stuff in it. Now the goal in life is to keep that bucket low. And some of us are really good at emptying that bucket outside of our body because our detoxification pathways are optimized, whereas others may have some genetic issues, gene mutations in certain areas, and they can't empty their bucket effectively, which happened to my son. And so what happens is we put this load on the bucket— inflammation. And inflammation can come from food, it can come from toxins, it can come from environmental toxins, it can come from medication, which it came my son, and this load and load will, will rise up until it gets— the bucket gets so full, and if you can't effectively empty it out, it will tip over into our body, and our body will be riddled with information, and that's when symptoms come out. And so for kids, they might be born with that bucket that has stuff in it already, and then they start eating these foods. Now, when you've got a high bucket and you start eating other highly inflammatory foods, that load is going to get up very, very quickly. So I get a lot of questions, well, Why does, say, gluten, dairy, and soy affect one kid but doesn't affect the other kid, even if they're in the same family? And I bring it back to that bucket. Well, that kid's bucket might be full already, and that kid's detoxification pathways may not be optimized. And so that's sort of the way that I look at it. Now, gluten, dairy, and soy are the top 3 inflammatory foods that I think of, and they're the top 3 culprits that are driving inflammation in our body. And, and these highly inflammatory substances can lead to an immune response. And they lead to increased intestinal permeability or leaky gut. And I'm sure your listeners probably know a little bit about leaky gut, am I right?

Of course, yes.

So, uh, they can lead to leaky gut, and kids with ADHD are more likely to also have compromised immune systems. So the effects of these substances tend to have a whole, a great effect on the body. Now, in terms of why do they cause leaky gut, I won't go into detail about all of them, but I think gluten is probably the number one food that I recommend that all children with ADHD cut out of their diets. Pretty much everyone should not be eating gluten, in my opinion, but we're talking about kids with ADHD here. Now, gluten is so inflammatory that even if someone doesn't have an allergy, it does cause leaky gut. It's harmful for everyone, and that's because it triggers intestinal permeability in everyone. And it— that refers to sort of the breakdown of the intestinal walls. Now, when functioning properly— I don't know if you want me to go into detail in this, and if you're— if your listeners already know this, but intestinal permeability is the breakdown in the intestinal walls, and it allows that water and nutrients to pass through, but blocking other things from entering the bloodstream. So when there's that breakdown, it can lead to leaky gut, which basically means the tight junctions in the gut that are supposed to control what passes through the lining of the intestines, they're not doing their job very effectively. So they're allowing toxins and other harmful substances to get through into the bloodstream. And when toxic substances get into the bloodstream, the body fights them off and tries to get rid of them. And so when something enters the bloodstream that's not meant to be there, it triggers that inflammatory response as the body seeks to rectify it. So gluten leads to increased intestinal permeability, which leads to leaky gut, which leads to inflammation, which leads to a load on that bucket. And when that bucket is high, it it leads to the symptoms like stomachaches, constipation, brain fog, which is like inattention, hyperactivity, reflux, anger issues, nose wheezing. I mean, I could go on and on, as you know, but a lot of those symptoms correlate with ADHD. And, you know, by cutting out gluten, parents of children with ADHD are removing one food that significantly contributes to inflammation in their body and the load on that bucket. And, you know, if in my experience, if we remove that along with those other highly inflammatory foods like dairy and soy and feed the body with the right things, then ADHD symptoms diminish significantly and sometimes disappear completely because they allow the gut to repair. Does that explain it?

Okay, that's awesome. Yeah, absolutely. So I, as a parent, felt at one point that my son was likely gluten intolerant when he was in his middle school years, and I tried to get him to go gluten-free, and I only got him to agree to about a 2-week trial of this. So, and that was it. I mean, it was just a losing battle because even if he was, say, restricting it, the best I could get him to agree to was, say, he'd still eat it once a week. And I'm thinking, well, that's kind of meaningless in the end. So I'm curious whether you had better success and obviously your child was younger at the point at which you started doing this, but how in the world do you get these other families to do it?

Yeah, look, it is a lot. And that's why I've sort of designed my program the way that, that I have. My son was a lot younger. The younger the better, because they grow up with it and that's what they know. The older, it's a lot harder. You do need to get a little bit more buy-in, but the way that you do it with the older kid is really getting them to understand the feelings in their body and how that affects their body. And, and if they are having that gluten intolerance and they're experiencing symptoms, when they stop the gluten, they can actually feel the changes in their body. And that's where you jump on it to try and get that buy-in. And so when they do eat something they will experience the symptoms coming back. I can tell you that. I've seen it time and time again. And so it is really important that you're constantly having those conversations with the older kids. There are so many challenges that can come up with it. What I tell with families is it's not an overnight change. I tried to change everything on day one. I literally took out gluten, dairy, soy, artificial flavors, artificial colors, 40 food sensitivities that were on his food sensitivity panel on day one. Let's just say I had multiple panic attacks on the floor of my bedroom, and that is not what I teach in my program. So I always tell families that Rome wasn't built in a day, and transforming their family's diet won't be complete in a day either. And so it's okay to take it slowly. And when you've got an older child, that's important because you need to take them along in the journey with you. If you just throw it on them, they're going to rebel. So it's okay to take one step at a time. And if that pace that's doable for you and your life is one change a week or one change every two weeks, then that is okay. And so families really need to give themselves permission to take things slow because it's not a diet, it's not a phase. It really is a permanent lifestyle change. But when it becomes part of your lifestyle, it's second nature. You don't even think about it anymore.

Yeah.

So very much, I think that having support when doing it with a family is key to this. Trying to do it alone is so hard. Take my word for that one. I did it by myself and it was so extremely hard. And so in my program, we're literally there every single day with families, holding their hand step by step, telling them exactly, laying out that blueprint for them on what they need to do next. So they don't need to think about it. And when that challenge does come up, which it will, we can help them overcome it because that is our powerhouse. That is what we know best. Having helped over 1,000 families, we know what works, we know what doesn't work, and we know if there is a challenge, most likely we've dealt with it before.

Yeah, so obviously it helps if you have buy-in from both parents. I'm curious whether your husband bought into the entire idea of changing the diet because My husband wasn't bought in at all.

I love this question. No, he wasn't. He wasn't bought in. Probably still not 100% bought in either, but you know, this—

wow, this is—

that's just the way it is. We've seen so many changes, but he's a man of science, and you know, as most men are, and also stubborn. And I love him. He's upstairs, and I always throw him under the bus. If I didn't love him, The positives outweigh the negatives, you know how it is.

The—

I've run into many non-believers in my time, and I will tell you, like, it was the science that first made me rethink the direction we were traveling with my son, and, and same for him. And the fact that we obviously had significant side effects from the medication, but there are so many studies out there to support this. And I think that really, when you're trying to convince the unconvinced, it's— you've got to hit them with science. And I've got so many studies out there that just really, really drive it home that diet is so important. Look, it's not just about diet. I don't just teach diet, but it's diet, it's detox, it's lifestyle, it's reducing toxins, it's all of that. But I mean, I could list off studies and studies. I don't know if you want me to, but I, I could, I could list off some studies. And I think that you hit the unconvinced with the studies, and sometimes moms just need to take it into their own hands. And honestly, that's what I did at first. And I said, look, this is what I'm doing, too bad. Come on the journey or you don't.

Yeah.

And I just went forward and did it. And then they start to come on board when they actually see the changes. And the changes are amazing. I mean, the first, the first change that you see with reducing that inflammation in the body is a reduction in tantrums, a reduction in meltdowns, a reduction in anger. The severity, the length of time, the frequency all reduce. For my son, it was literally within 2 to 3 weeks of changing the diet. And honestly, the emotional dysregulation is the hardest thing for a child with, you know, for a family to deal with because it's so loud.

Absolutely.

Yeah, it puts the families— puts a family on hold, basically. It's that, um, it's that roller coaster of emotions. So it's actually really nice to see that that's one of the first changes that happen.

Absolutely. So obviously taking out the bad stuff is necessary, but what about what kids with ADHD need to eat more of?

Yeah, look, it's, it's really, uh, it's really like the same thing for anyone else. It's really about not what just to take out, it's also what to put back in the diet. Because I always say to people, gluten and dairy-free is not necessarily healthy. If you're going to replace packaged goods with packaged goods, you're not going to get to where you go. And sometimes gluten-free can actually be worse than the non-gluten-free. Yeah, but my— as far as what to eat, my, my best tip is to focus on whole, nutritious, fresh fruits and veggies, grass-fed animal protein such as meat, poultry, seafood, eggs, and also plenty of healthy fats like avocado, coconut, and olive oil, really avoiding those refined oils. You also want to be drinking plenty of spring water. I mean, the numbers of families that come to me whose kids, the only thing they drink is juice, soda, and milk— they— you take the juice away, you take the milk away and the soda away, and they're a different kid. You don't even need to make the dietary changes. But you do for their health, by drinking plenty of spring water to avoid harmful chemicals that are in some waters. But also, obviously, water helps detox the body and remove the toxins that are already there. I find that all of these foods really provide us with the nutrients we need so we can function at our best along with our kids. And so when buying ingredients, my rule of thumb— ingredients in terms of like a packaged food— my rule of thumb is if there's something that you can't pronounce, put it back. If you don't know what it is, your body's not going to know what it is. And try to stick with an ingredient list that's less than 5 or 6 on there. The more ingredients, the more worry that there's going to be those other things in there as well.

Right. So you mentioned detoxification a couple times. I'm curious, are you testing kids in your practice with, with what kinds of tests might you use to check the detoxification?

Yeah, look, I think functional lab testing definitely plays a role. I would like to say that some, about 50% of the families I work with, we just do sort of the diet, lifestyle, light detoxification, and reducing toxin exposure, and they get to where they need to go without doing lab testing, which is amazing. And what that tells me is probably 50% of the kids that are diagnosed with ADHD are not in fact having ADHD. It's probably a byproduct of what's going on in their body. You apply that to the 6 million children in the US today that have been diagnosed with ADHD, that's probably 3 million children that have been wrongly diagnosed. But the other 50% yes, it helps dramatically, but there's something deeper going on in their body that we need to check out. And we use functional lab testing to identify those hidden stressors. There are 4 base tests that I suggest to families. There are many more, and I have access to many more, but I find these 4 are really great starting point.

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Now, the first test is a stool test. Gives us a really clear picture of the state of the gut, you know, things like parasites.

Which one do you use?

I currently use BiomeFX from Microbiome Labs. I have used a number of different ones over the time, but I do actually like to look at the most up-to-date technology. PCR testing is, is one that is getting out of date now. And so this is using a DNA sample of each of the bacteria or the parasites. So it's much more accurate in that way. So we're looking for what's going on in the gut. We're also looking for inflammation and leaky gut and digestive enzymes, things like that. The next one we use is a food sensitivity test, not just a standard one that you can buy online. They're not all created equal. I use a lab called Vibrant Wellness and we do their Food Zoomers. And so I've had people that have got an IgE, sorry, an IgG and food sensitivity test from online and. Just say for example eggs come up negative because what that is doing is just testing the food at the top protein level. But with the Food Zoomers, what they'd actually do is they check the food down to the peptide level of the protein. So for example, egg has something like 18 different peptides in it, and so what the Zoomer is doing, it's actually checking all of those 18. So I've had times where it's come up negative on a food sensitivity panel, but we do an Egg Zoomer, they're so highly reactive at the peptide level, just not at the top protein level. And so a lot of the time we won't be success— stressful if we, if we didn't remove egg. Now, uh, food sensitivities, they're not true allergies, but they do cause inflammation in the body. They put a load on that bucket. So you can actually heal from the sensitivities. Once you heal the gut, you can start to add them back in.

Do you make sure they're off of the gluten, dairy, and soy before you run the Food Zoomer, just so that the level of, of leaky gut is essentially reduced prior to checking for other sensitivities?

No, I don't, because we're doing it sort of side by side. We do it— obviously, families just start with our, our Phase 1. If they start with our Phase 1, then gluten, dairy, and soy will be removed for 6 months. And then if they go to Phase 2, which is testing, then they will do it that way. But some families, when we talk about their health history, we actually they've got very traumatic health history, and we know that we just need to get to it. Now, I will tell you, I have had families that have come to me 3 years of being gluten, dairy, and soy, and we do a wheat zoomer on them, and they are so extremely—

they're so good again.

Gluten, it's not funny. Yeah, they've been right. Gluten. Yeah. And they're probably not aware of it.

I'm just curious though, whether, whether they're coming up with pretty much every food that they're— the child is eating on the food zoomer, such that they're left with nothing to eat.

Yeah, look, um, a lot of the— some of the time they do, but what we're there— because we're there every single day holding their hand, we've got 5 weekly group coaching calls. There are so many foods out there that they can eat, and so we're really guiding them through that process. And if we just get so many, we prioritize. We just take the biggest hitters and we leave the rest, and we use a rotation diet on the rest. And so really, you know, with a kid, we, uh, sort of feel where they are, we feel where the family is. We don't want to overwhelm the really too much. Some come back with only like 5 sensitivities, others come back like my son, he had 40. I actually did every single one. Obviously that's the best, but at the same time we need to make sure they're getting the nutrients and everything to grow. So it is about let's work out what's best for this child based on the knowledge that we have. So the third test that we do is an organic acid test, which I love.

Great Plains or—

yeah, I love Great Plains. But at the same time, it's, it's really keeping an eye on the different technologies that are out there, in which one is the most up to date and which one's going to give us that, that, that best result at that time. And so I'm always open to making sure that I am currently using the best. Now, I love Great Plains. This organic acid test really gives us an overview of the whole body and how it's functioning, the need for specific nutrients such as B vitamins, which are super important for our compromised kids, further diet modifications. So things like oxalates and salicilates, which again can be an issue for our kids. But at the same time, there are many practitioners out there that will say, go on a low oxalate diet, go on a low salicylate diet. But what I focus on is why are they high? When you've got high oxalates, it's usually because of mold or Candida that is producing those elevated levels of oxalates. So some— for kids, I don't— I, a lot of the time in the first round, I don't tell them to go on a low oxalate diet because when we fix the gut it actually comes back down into normal ranges. It's also looking for detoxification, and that's where I'm looking at that and seeing that they're detoxifying properly. It's looking at neurotransmitters, so your serotonin and your dopamine, yeast, mold, Clostridia, so C. diff, mitochondrial function, lots of markers. There's over 70, and so that's why I love that one so much.

Yeah, I love that test too.

And then the final test, which not many people know about because it's really specific to mood and behavior, and it's called a Cryptopyrrole test, and pyrroles are a normal chemical byproduct in the body, and they attach to vitamin B6 and zinc and, and draw these elements out of the body when they're excreted through the urine. So if a kid has elevated urine cryptopyrrole levels, it can result in a dramatic deficiency of zinc and B6, and those are two critical nutrients needed for mental health. But pyrroluria, which is what they call it, is frequently identified in behavioral disorders, ADHD, depression, aggression, violent behavior, and the symptoms are like one for one with ADHD symptoms. Poor tolerance to physical, emotional stress, poor anger control, mood swings, poor short-term memory, sensitivity to light and sound, tactile sensitivities. Another one is poor dream recall or inability to tan. You don't have to have all of them. You could have one or two. You could have all of the symptoms, or, you know, you can have half of the symptoms. It really doesn't matter. But I see that in probably about 50 to 60% of the kids that I test. And really it's about bringing in some key nutrients. Pyrrole is part genetics, part oxidative stress, so a breakdown in the cells. And when there's high inflammation, that's when you get oxidative stress. So we reduce that oxidative stress, we reduce that inflammation, but some kids actually need a lifelong management of the zinc and B6 if there is a strong genetic component to it.

Yeah. So I'm curious, how high do you typically have to supplement zinc and B6 if they have— yeah, look, we—

it's based on weight. We do a metabolic weight factor and, and look at the weight of the child. We also bring in some key antioxidants to reduce that oxidative stress, so like vitamin C, vitamin E, selenium. I've actually created my own Pyrol supplement because when you add in zinc, B6 in two different forms, C, E, selenium— I actually added magnesium to it as well. You're cutting down on 5 different supplements and I've brought it all into one. And then I adjust the dosages based on weight.

Oh, okay. So like once they hit adulthood, how many pills a day is it of your supplement? I'm curious.

With 100 pounds, like I only sort of go up to 100 pounds in mine. Okay. So with that, it's, it's probably 5 in the morning, 5 at night.

Okay. So it's not a small number. I know with magnesium in there, I knew it had to be high because that alone takes a lot of space.

Exactly. Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah.

But with kids, it's only like, it's either 2 in the morning, 2 at night, or 3 in the morning, 3 at night, based on that weight.

Are they chewable?

No, none of them.

Most of them. Okay. So they have to be able to swallow pills.

No, we've got, we've got a powder and we also have capsules that can be opened up into juice or, uh, or something else. Yeah.

Excuse this brief interruption, but I wanted to remind you that if you've been struggling with IBS, IBD, reflux, gastritis, SIBO, dysbiosis, candida, diarrhea, constipation, and all that gut health stuff. That's my specialty. So I work with clients not just here in Tucson, Arizona, where I live, but also virtually on video chat. And I offer single appointments as well as a 5-session gut health program for people with tougher gut health issues or mental health or autoimmune challenges that go along with that, who likely require testing and longer-term follow-up up, as well as 12-week programs for weight loss. If you think that a 5-session or longer course of health coaching might help you meet your health goals, you can set up a free 30-minute breakthrough session with me to talk about what you've been going through, and I'll listen and hear if it sounds like I have something in my toolkit that you haven't already tried and let you know if I think that health coaching would be appropriate for you. You can find a link for that in the show notes, and I hope to hear from you. Got it. So did I say I would love to have some of those studies just to link in the show notes?

Oh, okay, sure. I can definitely do that for you.

Yeah. So obviously since this is a show about gut health, I wanna be sure we talk about the gut-brain connection.

Yes.

So how does this apply in the ADHD world? I know we talked a little bit about the leaky gut.

Yes.

And I also know that a good portion of kids with autism tend to have gut issues. Mm-hmm. Is this true for ADHD as well? Like, do you see a lot of gut infections?

I definitely, definitely do. And as I said, like, we change the diet for some kids, we, we open up detoxification pathways and we reduce that inflammation and their gut starts to heal on its own. And so I think that the reason why the gut is so important to this, I just wanna bring it back to a couple of statistics. We know that all of these disorders and illnesses are on the rise. Everyone's like, well, why is there this epidemic? And it's actually estimated that 54% of American children have been diagnosed with a chronic illness in 2018. And that figure was only 15% a couple of years ago. And I look at that increase and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is just awful. 1 in 2 have anxiety, asthma, diabetes, epilepsy, cystic fibrosis, learning disabilities. 1 in 5 have allergies, 1 in 6 have developmental delays, and 1 in— I think it's 42 now— have autism. But the reason, in my opinion, the rise is happening, happening so rapidly is it all begins in the gut. And that's because 80% of the body's entire immune system is within the gut walls, along with billions of nerve cells and extensive amount of gut bacteria. So all of our children's health is like quite literally connected to everything that occurs in the gut, and obviously all of ours as well. It's not just our children, but the amount of families that I've spoken to, we always ask them, has your kid been on antibiotics when they were younger? And a huge percentage have. I actually wish I kept a tally, which I, I haven't, but But as you probably know, and as the listeners probably know, most antibiotics work by killing bacteria or preventing it from growing. But unfortunately, most antibiotics can't distinguish between good and bad bacteria. And so that means that they wreak havoc on the gut's healthy bacteria. And actually, many people suffer lasting changes to their gut flora as a result of taking antibiotics. So a huge percentage of these kids have been taking multiple rounds of antibiotics. Headaches. That in turn is compromising the gut. And when the gut is compromised, because 80% of the body's entire immune system is in there, it's not a huge surprise to see that these disorders and illnesses on the rise. Now, if I tie gut health to brain health and ADHD, that's really the gut-brain connection. And, and what that means is our, our brains are deeply connected to our guts, and if our guts aren't functioning well, our brains won't be able to function well either. Now the main area involved in gut function is the frontal lobe, and that's the area of the brain that talks to the gut via two-way chemical messengers and nerve branches. And the frontal lobe is involved in things like attention and focus and executive function and planning and organizing and problem solving, which are often issues that kids with ADHD struggle with. And because the frontal lobe is in the brain, many people are under the impression it's the brain that needs care, when in reality it's actually also the gut that's causing the problem. I think the biggest thing for me, and this is why we see such a dramatic change with kids when we just change the diet, 95% of the body's serotonin and 50% of the body's dopamine is produced in the gut. And these neurotransmitters or hormones are the ones that help us manage emotions. They, they balance mood, they help our cognitive function. And emotional dysregulation is a common symptom of ADHD, but many parents don't realize that this emotional dysregulation actually starts in the gut where the serotonin and the dopamine are made. So the problem is not the emotions themselves, but the fact that the correct amount of these vital neurotransmitters are not being made in the first place. So by working to improve gut health, many parents of children with ADHD find that the emotional dysregulation problems solve themselves. The frontal lobe starts to get optimized, and a lot of those symptoms can be helped with, with healing that gut.

Awesome. So beyond the food question, are there supplements that are evidence-based for supporting kids with ADHD, or, or adults for that matter?

Definitely. I, I, I do like to preface this to say that one thing to keep in mind with supplementation is that everybody is a bio-individual, meaning every child is unique. So what works really well for one child might show little effect for another. But that being said, there are a number that, like, there are, there are 4 supplements that I love for ADHD in particular that are the most studied. And one is a good quality fish oil that has omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids. You know, really important to get them in the right balance. It's really important to get a quality one and not a gummy that has sugar on it. And there are a lot of studies out there that support the omega-3 and omega-6 Omega-6 fatty acids can support things like memory, hyperactivity, clear thinking, behavioral disorders, and organization skills in children. The next thing is a good quality probiotic. There's a lot of research. We, we know that, that taking a probiotic that contains either certain types of gut bacteria or spore-forming probiotics can really help with, you know, boosting that gut-brain connection, help supporting detoxification. It helps with anxiety and mood and also support the body against the damage reducing mental and physical effects of stress. Probiotics are not created equal, so really ensuring that you have a good quality probiotic is, is important.

So what are the ones that you like?

I like Megaspore Biotic, uh, which is a spore-forming probiotic. I'm not sure if you've discussed this on the podcast before. Yeah, what the reason I like it so much, it's kind of like in springtime where you want to make sure your, your grass starts growing and you, you put down seeds, so you're reseeding the grass so it can, it can grow. And the plants can grow and they can prosper. And so this is kind of like what that probiotic does. It, it seeds the, the gut and lets the good bacteria grow in what that needs for that person. Whereas a lot of just the, the strain-based ones, they don't survive digestion. So they go in and then they go into your stomach and then they go out and you've just got a lot of expensive poop. So that's why I do prefer this, the spore-forming ones. I'm actually in the process of creating my own custom blend that has those spore-forming probiotics in it will also have saffron, which is supported in helping brain health as well. And it's also going to have a couple of other strains of probiotics that help with calmness and mood as well. So I'm in the process of doing that right now. The next one that I love is magnesium. Magnesium is great for everyone. There's— there are so many studies out there. Magnesium is needed for over 300 biochemical processes in the body. And parent— there are many different types, but Parents find that it makes a surprising difference in their kids' anxiety or depression, aids in sleep, and also helps hyperactivity. And research suggests that children with ADHD and anxiety often have low magnesium levels, and so using supplements can have a calming effect on behavior, insomnia, agitation, muscle cramps, things like that. You know, so many different things. There's two forms that I like. One is glycinate, which helps with that calming. The other one is l-threonate, which crosses the blood-brain barrier, which helps with the Pain. So obviously ADHD helps with, with that for sure. So that helps with ADHD for sure. And then the final one, which everyone should be taking, vitamin D. And I, I find that it works wonders with children with ADHD and anxiety, especially when taken with omega-3 fatty acids. But we all know that the best way to get vitamin D is to get outside. But when you live in Seattle like I do, there's not a lot of sunshine, so except for maybe 5 weeks of the year. And so my kids and myself on a vitamin D and K2 supplement like most of the year, except for maybe 4 or 5 weeks of the year, but it's definitely beneficial for most people.

Yeah, of course. So are there other common underlying stressors that you see in kids with ADHD beyond the diet question?

Yeah, look, there are, there are a number of things that exacerbate ADHD and we really are focusing on reducing that inflammation, those 4 Base test will give us a high-level view. Other things that can contribute to, uh, to it are things like nutritional deficiencies and making sure that they've got the right balances of those nutrients. Also other things like minerals and, and heavy metals is a big one as well. We, we find copper overload quite consistently in kids with ADHD. If you actually Google copper overload and ADHD, it's actually— there's a lot of information out there about that. The problem with it though is we need to be very careful of copper dumping., and so you just got to really do it slowly, especially with, with kids. Food intolerances, that's obviously another one. Heavy metals, environmental toxins, dysfunctions in body systems, even cultural or lifestyle factors can contribute to it. Hormone imbalance, inflammation, full stop, leaky gut, pharmaceutical medications create underlying issues as well because they can contribute to the toxic load on that bucket. So there are a number of, you know, common underlying stressors that can contribute to symptoms. And really, the way that I look at this journey is we are trying to reduce inflammation as much as possible to allow healing to occur. And we do that in multiple ways. We do that with diet, we do that with detox, we do that with food, which I've just discussed, lifestyle changes, reducing toxin exposure, reducing heavy metal exposure, reducing infections in the optimizing the gut-brain connection.

Awesome. So tell me about your new book and where listeners can find it.

Yeah, it was a labor of love. It is called Thriving with ADHD, which is a guide to naturally reducing ADHD symptoms in, in your child. And honestly, years ago when I was going through with this, my, with my son, I wanted a book, a program, a call, or whatever on ADHD that would clearly spell out exactly what I needed to do to support him with ADHD naturally, but I could never find it. I was constantly Googling for something, anything that might actually help us get some relief from my son's challenging behaviors. And when I was looking for that book years ago, I just struck out over and over again, and there was just nothing out there. And there was a novelist, Toni Morrison, and he once said that if you find a book you really want to read but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it. And, and that's what I did. And I still can't hardly believe it, actually. It's an international bestseller in multiple categories, including children's health, which just blew me away. And it's my life's work. It's the guide I needed when I started this journey with my son but couldn't find. And it's, it's different from other books out there because I'm not only a practitioner, but I'm also a mom who gets it 1000%.

Yeah.

And so, you know, I just, I just want families out there— honestly, at the end of the day, yes, I've got a business, yes, I do this for a living, but my goal or my passion to get this word out there to fam— there are so many families out there struggling. They do not need to struggle. And I'm not going to be able to work with everyone. And so hopefully this book makes it more accessible to other people out there. You know, one day my dream and my vision is for the doctor, instead of handing a prescription medication when the child's first diagnosed, is they hand this book. They say, go and implement all of this, and if you still got issues, come back to me and we'll, we'll talk about something different.

And that's— it's a great dream, but I'm, I'm not, I'm not picturing this.

I know, um, it is a great dream, but I'll do whatever I can to, you know, just get this message out get there to as many people as possible because parents do not need to suffer. Yeah, listeners can find more about my book at adhdthriveinstitute.com/book. It's available on Amazon.

Yeah. Okay, and where can they find your—

adhdthriveinstitute.com. I'm also on Instagram, Facebook, and other social platforms at ADHD Thrive Institute.

Okay, great. Well, I will include all those links in the show notes. And any parting thoughts for everyone?

All I want to say is that we've probably got some parents listening who are like, oh my gosh, that sounds amazing, but it sounds so overwhelming. I'm just going to take them back to the fact that Rome wasn't built in a day. Okay, you do not need to make all of these changes on day one. And, you know, get support where you need it. I, I'm very much now about— I'm not an expert in everything, and I I will pay for expert time and advice in the area that I need, specifically when it comes to my business or even my, even my personal life. And so if all I wanted back in the day was a program like mine and it wasn't out there, and so it is possible to reduce ADHD symptoms naturally. If you're on this vicious cycle of trial and error of medication or trial and error of anything and you just can't get off that roller coaster, then you— there are things that help. Don't lose hope. I've seen it with over 1,000 families. I've seen it with my own family. There are solutions out there that can help.

Wonderful. Yeah, that is, that is my theory for everything. Like, there's no— well, okay, I might be exaggerating, but, but you can certainly make a good dent into almost any kind of health problem, any kind of chronic health problem, through functional holistic medicine. So, and diet changes such. Okay, well, thank you so much for sharing all this information with us, and it was great talking to you.

Thanks, Lindsey. It's been fun.

I hope that was useful to some of you. I love hearing about natural solutions for kids in particular, because who in the world wants their child on 3 or 4 prescription medications, right? If you'd like to connect with me online, you can follow my High Desert Health Facebook page, join my Gut Healing Facebook group, or join my newsletter list at highdeserthealthcoaching.com, as well as Twitter, Instagram, Instagram and Pinterest. Links for those are in the show notes. Thanks for joining me today, and here's wishing you all the perfect stool.