Fixing Your Gut, Starting with the Brain

Welcome to The Perfect Stool: Understanding and Healing the Gut Microbiome. This is your host, Lindsey Parsons. Today I'm talking with Laura Patricia Martin, who's a health coach like me, an IBS anxiety specialist, and the founder of Healing to Happy. After battling her way through IBS, hypothyroidism, anxiety, hormonal imbalances, and skin issues, Flora found herself in an unhealthy relationship with food and knew there had to be a better solution. She dove into nutrition in order to make peace with her enemy in 2016, but that didn't resolve the IBS issues, so she followed up her studies by specializing in gut health and has since gone on to help hundreds of women around the globe heal IBS using methods that focus on the gut-brain connection and metabolic restorations. But before we get started, if If you haven't yet followed or subscribed to the show, be sure to do so. And if you want to get transcripts of the podcast, pop over to my website, HighDesertHealthCoaching.com, and sign up for my newsletter. You'll also get my free ebooklet called Finding Your Root Cause Through Stool and Organic Acids Testing when you sign up. Now on to the show. Welcome to the podcast, Laura.

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Yeah, I'm excited to have you.

So your approach to gut health is a little bit different than my, my approach, and I know it's very diet-focused, which is not to say that I don't address diet with my clients, but it sounds like you use it as a primary vehicle for change. So can you tell me more about that?

Not so much. I focus more on the gut-brain connection. So there's two different ways that I do that where it's— a lot of people get wrapped up in food sensitivities and elimination diets and things of that nature when really, when it comes to IBS, it has to do more with the nervous system. So the foundation of Healing the Happy is really looking at, okay, so what's the mindset first? So we function in like, if you think of the triangle, right, the foundation is mindset. So what are the daily habits? What are things that are impacting that? Where did that start? And then the things that come together are lifestyle and nutrition, because you can't have any of those two built on an unsteady foundation. And so really what we focus on is the gut-brain connection to really get balance back in. And then also we focus on restoring the metabolic function. And so that looks like what are your core body temperatures, what organs aren't functioning properly. Instead of focusing on what foods to take away, we're focusing more on what nutrients need to be added back in so that we can really optimize the body to start taking in food normally again.

So it's interesting that you mentioned core body temperature because I know that that's a factor in fungal overgrowth, and I know personally I have a low core body temperature, and I'm curious what foods help bring that up.

When it comes to core body temperature, we look at more of the lifestyle practices because it's found with just a simple bubble bath will help bring that up. And so it's getting more into how do we balance the circadian rhythm, because people that struggle with anxiety or struggle with food sensitivities or depression their entire body's core temperature is all thrown out of whack. So we focus more on what is it throughout the day that's throwing that out. Yes, that comes from we need some root vegetables and we need some heartier foods because oftentimes when we think of quote-unquote healthy, we're thinking of salads and smoothies and things that are very light. And when our body is telling us it's not functioning optimally and things like our body temperatures or our pulses are not really being optimized in the way that the body needs to be using it. We got to work our way backwards. So we need more heartier foods. You think of more of the fall kind of foods, right? Stews. And in the morning you're having eggs and potatoes and things like that that have more of like sustenance to them, where we often shy away from them because of a weight thing, or we don't like to feel full or things of that nature, which over time actually decreases our body temperature. And when we're talking about metabolism, a lot of people refer to that as skinny-ish kind of people. But really what I'm talking about is core body temperature. What is the temperature of your body and how, how is that impacting the rest of your health.

So when you say hearty foods, are we talking like meat?

Mhm. So really in my practice I'm doing organ meats because we're not really eating those as much anymore. And then we're talking about fish, seafood, fatty fish, more of the salmon, the fatty tuna, sardines, mackerel, oysters, depending on where we are and like our hormone cycles. And do you need darker meats? Do you need things of that nature? And just kind of playing around from there.

Mhm. So organ meats are a tough sell. I can tell you, I tried, I tried my darndest to make some edible pâté out of chicken livers and beef livers, and I could not do it. Although my friend who was a chef did make a beautiful chicken liver pâté that I loved, but I wasn't able to pull it off and have multiple jars of pâté sitting unused in my freezer.

Oh, 100%. It's one of those things where I can't even stomach it. So that's actually one that I do supplement from a certain company. When I was living in Thailand, that was something that it was. I was like, Well, this is easier. It's in everything. You don't have to think about it. It's just in curries or it's in these different things. But here we don't use it. We don't use all of the animal anymore. And I was doing a panel the other day and someone did mention that nowadays you can get ground organ meats inside of ground beef. But again, that's not a common thing people are out there looking for. It's definitely an acquired taste. So I personally just take a supplement form of it.

Yeah. So is that a beef liver supplement or?

Yeah, so it's this company called Ancestral Supplements. Not sponsored or anything like that, I just genuinely like them. It's pasture-raised, locally grown, it's very well sustainable, all that stuff that we're all into nowadays. I haven't had any effects and my clients haven't had any effects of it, and so I just kind of go that route as opposed to being like, well, here's some iron, here's some vitamin K. Just eat the organ you're trying to support at the end of the day.

Right, right, right. I have sent people to look for various and sundry organ meats one, especially people who are dealing with autoimmunity and those types of things. Sometimes they're out of stock though. I think they get into hot demand when people catch on to that being a good one. There's a podcast I listen to, I can't remember who does the, the organ meat mixed in, but I wrote to the people who, who sell the, I buy from a farm, a local farm and suggested they do that with their ground meat to try and mix in some organ meats and they took it into consideration, but I have not yet seen a product come out. So We'll see. But yeah, I've also heard of people cutting up pieces of liver out of the freezer and swallowing them whole so that—

Yeah, I saw people do that. I like to enjoy my food.

Yeah. I can't do that. That's challenging. So how many beef liver supplements do you have to take in a day to make it worthwhile?

So it says 6, I take 3. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah.

Because it's one of those things that after you do it for a while, when your body starts to catch up, you don't need that stuff as much anymore. Right? So as time goes on, it's like, eh, I don't really need I don't have that many B vitamins in my body. I'm pretty wired when that happens.

Right. So back to core body temperature, what is— what should we be shooting for? And are we talking about like basal body temperature when you wake up and you take your temperature right after you've woken up and not done anything?

Correct. Yeah. So it's, I don't know, for any of my ladies that are trying to get pregnant, test your temperature right when you wake up just to see if you're fertile or not. And so nowadays you can use that same temperature. You want it to be around 96.8 when you wake up. By the time you go to sleep, you want it to be around 98. Ate, because it's supposed to get hotter as you go throughout the day. And then you take it again 30 minutes after you eat to make sure that you are increasing the temperature of the body, because that shows that your body is actually using the food. For a long time, that was not my case. That did not happen. And a lot of people with IBS, I do see that quite frequently, and anxiety. It's just our body temperature is all over the board, and really it actually goes down. This is when you'll see cold toes and fingers all the time, your hair is falling out, you're getting hangry, and we've normalize these things, but they're really not normal after time. And so you really want to aim for getting this back up. And oftentimes that means getting more nutrient-dense foods into our body while also working on lifestyle practices that downregulate the nervous system.

My niece was doing some type of thing. I think the person she was following was named Ray Peat, and it involved carrot salads and particular things. Are you familiar with that?

Yeah, the raw carrot salad did bind to estrogen dominance. So that's a big thing for migraines or PCOS. That's a big one. I suggest that in one of my programs, but it's one of those things where you can do that if you want, learn a little bit more about it. But it's interesting because it doesn't work if it's a cooked carrot. It's only a raw carrot that binds to this excess estrogen fiber to get it out of the body and help to really balance out. He started the study based off of migraines, and then it caught on to the metabolism world and restoration and kind of ran wild there.

So 96.8, that would be pre-ovulation, right? Post-ovulation, you'd have a higher temperature, correct?

Yeah, correct.

Right. So that would be more in the, in the 98 range.

Mm-hmm. That's what we're looking for.

And for men, what should they expect?

I don't study men as much, so I can't give a full answer on that. I really do dedicate my time to women.

Okay, fair enough. So in terms of, you were saying A bubble bath would bring up body temperature. Any other lifestyle practices that tend to bring it up? And by that, I don't mean at that given moment, but bring it up over time.

Yeah, it's just slowing the body down, right? How do we get the circadian rhythm of our body back into balance? That's essentially what it is. It's just thrown off all the time. We're not into balance. And so it starts with how you start your day. Are you up? Are you jumping? Are you snoozing, grabbing, slamming a cup of coffee and booking it out the door? Are you slow to rise, letting your body really adjust to getting out of those brain waves, adjusting in that moment? Or is it this fight-or-flight response right away? And then out of the day, are you moving? Not going to CrossFit. Are you going on a walk? Are you moving your body? Are you downregulating? Are you getting in nature? Are you seeing the sun? Are you breathing air? Now we're working from home and things like that, we don't go outside that much. It's not a common thing, and you have to actively add it into your routine. And then again, do you keep all the fake lights on throughout the day? Are you turning them off, getting by candlelight, or just rising and falling with the sun and really adjusting with that so that your body can get into that rhythm as well.

So what mindset obstacles or issues do you find tend to be related to IBS?

Oh my goodness, that low FODMAP is the only solution, um, and that elimination diets and restrictions, you know, of course it feels better at first when we first start it, and then people cling to it, not realizing that the longer they cling to it the more damage they're actually doing. And so I will get on calls with people and they're like, oh yeah, I've been doing this for like 25 years. I'm like, what? It's supposed to be 6 weeks. Like, definitely not supposed to be that way. The more I sit down with doctors, cardiologists or endocrinologists, they've even said when they learned in school, low FODMAP was just a way to distract the clients. Oh, we don't know what's wrong with you, just tell them that because then they'll be harnessed on food and things like that. And that just breaks my heart that like, that's what they're taught. It's not even, "This is nutrient, this isn't effective, this is just a distraction." So a really big roadblock is then getting off of that because it's, "Well, this is the only thing that makes me feel safe. This is the only thing that makes me feel like I have any type of control over it." It's fine, restrict what you want for the time being, but do the work on restoring why your body isn't digesting those foods to begin with.

So when you have somebody who has restricted their diet severely down to the point where they have very few things that they can eat, how do you work with them to expand what they eat?

Yeah, that was my own personal experience. So I focus more on, do you have the right resources where you're also repairing your relationship to food? Because it doesn't matter what diet I give you, we got to do that psychological work around food. I think it's called food reintake disorder, which oftentimes we see a lot with children where like they don't want to eat something because it's a color or a texture, but then they generally grow out of it. But people with IBS, it's oftentimes it's gluten or dairy or soy or lectins or whatever showed up on the food sensitivity test. That they're now afraid to consume. And really, that fear is actually what's spiking up their relationship with food. So I have multiple different masterclasses and programs because I personally went through that as well. But at the same time, if it's so deep, we need to do the psychological work. We need to get you help around that arena, and then we can start addressing the nutrition. But if we don't heal the relationship with food, it really just isn't healthy to throw anything else on top of that because we're just going to become obsessed with it and go the whole orthorexic route.

And how do you heal your relationship with food?

A lot of work. It, it's one of those things where everyone is different. Oftentimes it comes from a sense of it started when we were younger. I've been on a diet since I was 13. From there, continued on the journey. And so I had to realize really my relationship to food was my sense of belonging and that whole emotional relationship to it. And really challenging what you know, cuz a lot of times we think we're doing our best and we don't realize how disordered it actually is. And how stressful it's stressing the people out around us. And so when we take radical responsibility over that, we have to be able to be honest with ourselves. And it's not like it just goes away, because now it's just a disordered relationship with food, and it's not ideal, but it stays with us for a lifetime. I know how many calories are in a banana. I know how many calories are in a tomato. That doesn't leave my brain. I can't— I can't— and I know what's made up of the different— these different foods. And going out to eat, I know what they cook the oils with. That's in your brain. It doesn't just go away, but the way you let it impact you changes. You're able to sit there and be like, I'm going to be okay. Even if they're, they're using polyunsaturated fats, doing all this stuff, I'm like, it's fine. Like, I do majority of the work. 87% of the time I'm good. If something bad happens somewhere along the line, my body is okay to clean up that mess. It really is learning how to radically trust that your body, given the right tools, doing the work of restoring your metabolism, Healing the mindset stuff, doing the lifestyle stuff, trusting that you got you and that you can really carry yourself through that. And that even if there is gluten or dairy or something in the food, your body is going to be smart enough to taper that off because you've done the work over this time period.

And so are you finding that people are able to eat things like gluten and dairy after they've worked with you?

Oh my goodness, yes. That's the coolest thing is that they sit there. Of course, it's not an everyday thing. But it's one of those things that they're able to go out to dinner again, they're able to go on dates, they're able to go to family parties. That is what the whole purpose of this work is about, because people sit there and they're like, "Oh, like, I am a little bit bloated, but I'm not running to the bathroom, like, ripping off my pants on the way. This is a lot better. It's okay." We're making that progression over time.

Yeah, no, I got to the point where I can now have gluten and dairy. I could probably have them a little more often than I do, but maybe every 4 to 6 weeks, and it doesn't feel good. I get the sore throat from the dairy, I get a little reflux, I get the bloating if I overeat, because invariably I overeat them because they're so good and I don't get to have them very often. So I'm just like, forget about it, I'm just having as much as I can because this is it for 4 or 6 weeks. But, but yeah, it's not the end of my world. It's not like my entire health is destroyed or my Hashimoto's comes back. That doesn't happen.

Exactly. And it— and it— that's exactly what it is, is your body is just going to be like, Well, you don't normally eat this, so obviously that— it's like going to the gym and think you're going to pick up a 100-pound weight and it's going to be perfectly fine. That's not how that works. If you don't have the digestive enzyme, it's going to give you a little bit— like for me, I eat dairy probably every day. You know, either it's Greek yogurt or I have some cheese. My favorite meal is— I always get asked, what's your favorite meal? I'm like, charcuterie board. I know that's not what you were expecting, but it's my favorite thing. With gluten, I know that does affect a little bit of my cognitive function because I am more prone towards depression. So that will slow the synapses in my brain a little bit, but I still have it probably like once a week, I would say.

Not—

it's just one of those things that if it's on something— I'm dating a New Yorker, he loves his pizza, he wants to have pizza. I'm not going to be like, no, we'll opt for cauliflower and we'll opt for gluten-free sometimes, but he wants a regular pizza sometimes. Like, you know, I can't win all the battles. And it's one of those things where it's like, my body's fine. I just wear a looser pair of pants that day. Like, fuck them.

That's practical. So, I understand you deal with the issue of hypothyroidism and I'm curious what diet changes, if any, or what lifestyle changes that you've found particularly effective in reversing hypothyroidism both in the context of Hashimoto's and autoimmunity as well as non-autoimmune hypothyroidism.

It would be the same thing as restoring the metabolism because the whole reason we have autoimmunity responses is yes, We have the gene in our system, right? But for some reason, somewhere that light switch got turned off and on. And so we have to work our ways backwards. And that's often because of those temperatures. That's often because of our metabolic function. Like the gut isn't absorbing the right kind of food. So that starts to set off an alarm response to the rest of our organs and they aren't replenishing where they need to replenish. So we're working our way backwards from there. When it comes to hypothyroidism, it really is like, what is that iodine? What is the copper? What's the vitamin K? What's— how is that really working? Working, but it really is just kind of supporting the thyroid, the adrenals, different areas like that so that it can start to function out of this fight or flight response and really start to actually absorb the nutrients again.

So are there particular foods that are nourishing to the thyroid?

Ah, same thing. It's those organ meats. So just repetitive of it because a lot of people will be like, okay, so what's the supplement? What's this raw carrot salad thing where it's like, no, not really. It's, it's the organ you want to support, which I can list off the vitamins and things, but then you're going to be a walking pharmacy or you can go and choose the organ you're trying to replenish. Or there's things like making sure you're getting your weekly dose of oysters because that's the zinc, the selenium, the magnesium, the things you want. It's your multivitamin and you just get it that way. And so it really is just using whole foods in that direction. At first it is If you have to supplement and do things like that, you run that by your doctor and you have to run those things. But from there, you want to continue to restore the metabolism so that the organs start to function in a steady, calm state.

And what if you don't like oysters?

Yeah, no, people keep asking me that, but I'm like, put extra hot sauce on it. I don't know. I do believe we can train our taste buds, but you can do things like sardines, which again, I know they aren't the top topic. But they really are just so nutrient-dense from like, I don't want to give any alternative because it's just so good.

Yeah, I know that's a tough one. I am not a fan of fishy fish and not a fan of slimy things, but who knows?

Who knows?

I have trained myself to like a number of things as an adult and it's not impossible. I could train myself to like oysters, but in the meantime, I'll just take my zinc supplements. Yes, exactly.

Exactly.

Forgive this brief interruption, but I just wanted to let you know that if you're struggling with a gut health issue like IBD, IBS, SIBO, Candida, gastritis, or GERD, or you don't have an official diagnosis but are dealing with chronic diarrhea, constipation, acid reflux, nausea, bloating, gas, or other GI symptoms, my specialty is helping clients with those issues. Together we discuss different testing options and the information that you'd get from them. Then I show you how to order tests yourself and educate you on what the results mean and the and protocols that practitioners use to resolve those issues. If you wanna share what you've been going through and see if a 5-appointment gut health coaching program is for you, you can set up a free 30-minute breakthrough session by going to the link in the show notes. Or if you can just afford one appointment at a time, or you think your issue may be resolved with one appointment, you can set up a 1-hour consultation, and that's also linked in the show notes.

So I, I remember hearing a really interesting podcast where they were talking about how corn, well, and I think all the, all the phytates deplete zinc. And so, if you were to— oysters have like a ridiculous amount of zinc in them. I can't remember, it's like 800 milligrams or something like that in a serving. And, if you eat that with corn chips, basically that's all gone. That corn will take away all the zinc you just ate.

Really?

Yeah.

I did not know that. I don't know why I would eat corn chips with oysters.

Maybe it's like an oyster ceviche or something. I don't know.

But yeah, that's interesting because you do see a lot of people in the PCOS world specifically when they're like downing oysters like it's no one's business. They're like, "Just put it on a chip and eat it if you don't like it." Maybe that's why that study kind of came out because maybe it was stemmed from a lot of people being like, "I can't stomach it. Let me put it on a chip." Going from that way.

Yeah. Anyway. So in terms of supporting the organ with the organ meats with the thyroid, I mean, I know they sell desiccated thyroid. Do you recommend that ever?

Yeah, I mean, you could, but really it's a plethora of the things you can get. The glands, you can— it comes from the liver. If our body isn't processing the right or detoxing what is ever being overloaded, that's causing the inflammation. That's usually because of our liver and it comes from wherever the alarm bells are going off. But really the main focus is our liver because it's our main organ of detoxification. So I always aim for that one and kind of work our way from there because it's how do we get the nutrients back in our body? So at the same time, it's yes, we're focusing on the liver, as well as the nutrient-dense foods, the things that are just darker in color, the things that are a little bit hardier, the root vegetables, the things that just even when you look at them, they look hardy. You know, we want to add that more back into our nutrition routines.

So tell me about the root vegetables you really like and how you prepare them, because I've struggled to get into root vegetables to some extent because I just love grains so much.

I love that. I honestly, like, I love potatoes. Every single form, whether it's I make like a homemade French fry or I do an air fry, things of that nature. It's mashed potatoes, like I love them. They're easier to digest than a sweet potato. I know sweet potatoes are like super fun for everyone, but potatoes are where it's at, especially when you have gut issues, just easier. And then beets, carrots, turnips, different kind of things. And I honestly, it's just roasting them. Like I just put a whole bunch in the oven and then the whole name of the game is like what what sauce are we putting on them today? Because then you just like sprinkle them with salt and pepper. So then the rest of the day, it's not— or the rest of the week, it's not the same vegetable. It's just like they're the same vegetable, but like they don't taste the same. You just make some fun sauces to dip them in or pour on top of them.

Okay. Yeah, no, roasting makes everything delicious.

Oh, 100%.

So I understand that you use the normal blood tests people get from their doctors rather than stool tests to guide people. So can you tell me a little bit more about what you can discern about a person's gut health from their blood test?

Yeah, I mean, I— again, I look at like inflammation because at the core, I, I think when we're getting those stool tests and you're looking at the over— yes, we want to know if you have SIBO. Yes, we want to know if you have some type of Candida or parasite. That's why you should go run those and make sure your doctor is checking that before you do anything, because otherwise you're just wasting your time because you're going to keep getting trapped in that cycle. And when it comes to matters of guts, you want to test, not guess. But then we're looking at where is this inflammation, how much inflammation, where's that stemmed from? And usually that's back to the thyroid and how it's functioning optimally and making sure we're getting a full thyroid panel. How is that reuptake, you know, beyond just everything's normal? Like, no, get the full panel, look at it. Is it optimal, not normal? And then we want to make sure where is our C-reactive protein, how, how high, how low, what's that going on there? And just kind of diving into what are their hormones doing and why Why aren't they functioning in the way that they are? Because again, when it comes to IBS, it's not a food thing, you know. Yes, if it's SIBO. Yes, if it's a parasite. Yes, if it's Crohn's or things of that nature, that matters. But when it's IBS, it's basically, we don't know what's wrong with you. And then they push you off to the side and get you obsessed with the food thing when it's really, let's bring it back. Let's look at what is happening with our body. How inflamed is it? And where do we start to have to replenish from there? Which, again, at the root, it's just metabolism and the gut-brain connection to downregulate the nervous system.

So let's talk a little bit about the thyroid and the normal reference ranges versus the optimal reference ranges.

Yeah, I mean, when we're looking at it, it'll— I mean, it'll say on there, right? Like, if it's low, and they'll tell you. And that's when you have to ask your doctor, just like, what is the optimal range? The thing is, I'm not qualified to be reading things.

It's—

I go over them with people.. And I look and I go, and I go, okay, so it says low. Like, what did your doctor say about that? And we start to build from there because I'm not a doctor, you know, like that's, that's not my zone to be in. It's, what did the doctor tell you? And they're like, not really, but it's low. And I'm like, okay, so go back, ask them these questions, tell them like you want to know what the optimal numbers are because some of them are different ways, different spans, different way that they're read or printed out or any of that kind of stuff, and talk to them about them and see what that diagnosis is, what they have to say, and then we come back and we build out a plan from there.

Right. So I was— I've gone through Hashimoto's, so I'm pretty familiar with all this. But basically, my understanding is that the standard reference ranges for a TSH can go up until 4, sometimes even 6 for some labs. But the optimal reference range is really between 0.5 and 2. So above that, you should start to think about, well, I should probably get my antibodies tested and and see if, if this is not Hashimoto's rather than just, just plain old hypothyroid. It's not from Hashimoto's, but my understanding is about 80% of hypothyroid is from Hashimoto's thyroiditis.

Yeah, exactly.

I understand that you do group coaching programs around sensitive issues like gut health and anxiety, so I'm wondering how that works in terms of confidentiality and people's comfort in speaking up in a group setting.

Yeah, so when it comes to the anxiety courses, I realize a lot more people are willing to talk about that. But when it comes to poop, people don't really want to talk about that.

Thank you. I love to talk about it. I'm not sure why other people don't. I know.

I'm like, I, I mean, I facilitate them, they show up every time, but it's like, okay, whatever it is. I feel like more when we're talking about anxiety, there's a more of, oh, you feel that way too? And like a calming, especially with women, we love to nurture things of that nature. When it comes to matters of the bowels people want to learn, but they're not so vocal in being like, I don't poop, or I can't stop pooping. And all the time it's like, sorry if this is TMI. I'm like, this is literally my job. It's never TMI. Like, this is the point.

TMI me any day of the week.

I know, I'm like, it's totally fine. And so in group settings, the reason I like my containers is because it is confidential, where it's— what I missed when I was going on this journey is I thought I was alone. I thought these things, like, it was this foreign thing, because any of personal friends, if I did bring it up to them, they're like, no, that doesn't happen to me. And then I felt even more isolated and misunderstood and things of that nature. But when I started to realize there are so many women that struggle with gut issues and so many people that struggle with anxiety, I was like, we just need to facilitate a conversation around it that doesn't feel so crunchy, that really is open and communicative. And so it's growing in that conversation, and you're like, people will see it.. But most often it'll be like on the back end, people will message me and then I will answer that in a group setting so that they— because if one person has a question, everyone has that, someone else has that question somewhere, you know. And so we facilitate it that way. Also just like sisterhood in it. Like, I think it's just a missing thing inside of the healing world of things beyond just what am I eating and what am I doing, but like how am I feeling about this and how is this affecting my relationship and things of that nature, and being able to facilitate and hold conversations around that is really important. That's why I'm currently studying to become trauma certified, because it is just how do we hold space for things like that? Because a lot of times it is a trauma response, these things when our bodies are fighting against you, against us. It's a scary thing, you know, and we don't have the words to express it a lot of the time. We don't have the people around us. And so how, as me, as as a facilitator, can I hold space and ask the right questions and create an environment where people feel safe enough to really explore the continuation of starting these conversations and truly healing?

Yeah, no, it's true that you really feel in your body if you're willing to stop and take the time to do it. Your body speaks up for you in a way that sometimes your mind doesn't. And, and if you're a person who, like me, is totally in your head, right? Like you're much more on the Myers-Briggs, you're much more of a T than an F, right? So if you're very in your head, you may not take notice, but your body will tell you like, something's not right here. Like you are nervous, you're tense, you're something, because something's not right. Something that's happened is not sitting right with you. And your body will tell you. It's just a matter of giving it a chance to listen.

Exactly. And that's what we get so scared of doing. And that's why I said when it goes back to childhood, often it's like, when did that start happening? When did we start disassociating from our body and start going cerebral as opposed to being like, yeah, my heart is being really fast right now, or like, you know, my shoulders are super tense, or I'm clenching my jaw, or like, I, you know, my back is hurting in this way, I'm feeling like I'm sucking in my belly and I'm tense in my gut. It's these different things our bodies in these subtle cues, we start to tell us, but because we're so cerebrally thinking about something, we don't feel any of that.

Yeah. Yeah, you really do have to stop and give us— give a second to notice. But you do notice when it comes out the other end. Then it's sort of unmistakable. So when do you send people out for additional help versus dealing with what they are dealing with in a group or individual coaching context?

Yeah, I mean, usually they come to me after they've been to like so many people, and it's more of like the mental coaching side of stuff. But if I start to see people that are— the way they respond to things or the way they're not responding to things, that's when I'll be like, okay, so talk to your doctor about getting additional blood work here, and they'll get PDFs and things of how to talk to their doctor, because I realize a lot of people don't know how. We don't like having a voice with our doctor. We're like, please don't speak to me that way, or please don't— why do you want me to take this medication? You didn't even tell me what's wrong with me. Like, I'm not gonna do that. And I realized that was a big thing for me. Like, I had no problem, and I can't tell you how many doctors told me I was frustrating. And I was like, well, thank you, do your job and figure out what's wrong with me. I'm not making this easy. But a lot of my clients, like, they don't feel that kind of vocalization. So it really was just kind of coaching them on how to talk to their doctor if there needs to be further testing, if it's something like there's a parasite or there's SIBO and they need to go get more testing there, or if there's things that they just need to continue the conversation somewhere. And it's really just giving them the confidence of like, this is how we talk, this is what we need to ask, you know, things like that.

That is a totally challenging issue. I mean, I'm obviously somebody who's very well-informed about gut health, saw a gastroenterologist. And I determined I'm going to go in there, I'm going to say, listen, I'm somebody who knows a lot about this stuff. I know I've got this. This is what I want. And I mean, I got 3 sentences out and then I got a 12-minute lecture about how I knew nothing and how I should be getting a colonoscopy and I could have inflammatory bowel disease. And I'm like, okay, There are blood markers that will tell me whether I have inflammatory bowel disease. I do not need to get a colonoscopy to discern that. Now, it's possible I could have colon cancer. Totally, totally within the realm of the possible, although my Cologuard was negative. Obviously, there's false negatives. But that being said, I hardly needed to get a colonoscopy to deal with the symptoms I was having. And it was so frustrating. She was so condescending. I left there so completely furious. And I thought, well, maybe I will get a colonoscopy to make sure I don't have colon cancer, but I sure as hell wouldn't be getting it with you. I wouldn't trust you in a million years to put a scope up my butt. Thank you very much.

Exactly though. And that's the thing is like, because you know it, you can come in and say things, but most often than not, people don't know the words. So they just sit there and they're like, okay. And then they go and they're scared out of daylight about their health and their body and their medical bills are through the roof. And it's like, all this showed was you have a little bit of inflammation and that's it and whatever. And it's one of these things where it's, ah, it breaks my heart to see the discouragement that comes. And then oftentimes it's switched on them of like, they need to be more strict. And they, when already they have such a disordered relationship with food that they're hardly eating anything, what do you want them to be more strict about? That's not actually the problem. They just don't have enough diversity and explanation of what's going on, and now you're blaming them, which is going to let that eating disorder brain or disordered eating brain come into play because you're just using fear. That is not the way we need to be talking to anyone. We really got to break it down, explain it, not say we need to do these things, and really give like, oh, like, okay, so tell me more, and like giving people the directions of how to really have conversations and know that, especially when it comes to like when they say like it's all in your head or things of that nature, it's like, no, it's— you know when your body feels off.

Yeah.

You know, keep doing the digging because believe that no matter what someone else is trying to tell you. Follow through with that and make sure you feel healed and whole until you get to your answers.

Yeah, no, it could be— it can be very frustrating because obviously you have doctors that are have a lot of expertise. You have doctors who are compassionate, and sometimes they do not cross paths, especially when it comes to gut health, right? So there are doctors who truly understand, and of course functional integrative doctors, naturopaths, etc., know typically a lot more about gut health. But if you're trying to stick to insurance and you're trying to see somebody who's covered, then finding somebody who's both knowledgeable and compassionate and will listen to you and take you seriously, that combo is pretty rare. So, I mean, I just, I feel for people out there. I feel for people who are in that situation because, I mean, I have the luxury of sort of self-treating and I have the luxury of taking my time and, okay, that one didn't work out. I'll wait another 3 months for the next referral and see somebody else and see if I like that person better. And in the meantime, there's plenty of things I can do, but not everybody has that option. So I'm curious how you help people to speak up and train them to do that in a way that actually results in some other outcome.

I think when we start to be around people that get it, we stop feeling so desperate when we go to the doctors. So once you have someone that's there and being like, okay, so just go, like, we'll give PDFs, we'll print things out and being like, hey, just go get these tests done. Ask them more about like what this is so that you can really understand it a little bit more. Instead of just a blah explanation. And so really just coaching people on like, how, what do you want the outcome to be? How do you wanna feel at the end of your doctor's appointment? Okay, so in your past appointments, what's usually come up that made you not succeed in that feeling? Okay, so what can we do now when those questions arise? What questions do we need to ask so that you feel like by the next time you feel supported? And I mean, that's what the coaching that I do is in between those 3 months, whatever, if they need another referral, it's like, it's one of those things. And so it is over time we start to learn how our body works. We stop fearing it so much. We easily can be those people that walk in and be like, this is what I need to know. This is what I need to ask. Things like that. Over time, it's through our self radical responsibility of educating ourselves, right? Like that doctor isn't there to fix you entirely. Learn about your family history, learn about your lineage, learn about your response to food, learn about all these different things. You get 12 minutes with them.

Right. You know, 12 would have been great. I would take 12 in a million years. Like, that's, that's amazing. I get like 3 minutes.

Really?

Yeah.

Like 6 minutes maybe for an annual physical. That's what I got.

That's it, right? Like they, they can't give you that. So we have to do the work outside of the doctor's offices to then be able to optimize those 6 minutes.

Exactly. Exactly. My goal now with, with, with allopathic doctors is I walk in, I'm like, these are the tests I would like you to order. And I've moved to writing them on a page because sometimes it gets awkward as you're like, and then this one, and then this one, and then this one. And so I'm just like, you know what, I'm just going to hand them the page. And so this time they could just go down the list and go, I can order this, this, this, this, and this. No, this one you're going to need to go to a specialist. Okay, fine. But at least we got them done eventually.

Exactly.

Exactly. Oh, our medical system. My favorite thing to gripe about.

I was reading a thing on it before where it was like, because the healthcare system is about sustaining or management, quote unquote, of a disease or something like that until it becomes unmanageable, and then we need it even more. So that's when they give these different kind of medications because it's just a management tool, it's not a healing modality. And that's at the root what's the problem. And it's not their fault, right? Like, I'm not bashing doctors here, it's just that's not what they're trained, you know. And so they stick to one lane. So it's even— they're busy professionals, they don't really have the time to also sit down and do this other kind of stuff. They're working 18 hours.

Oh yeah, no, they're working way harder than I am, let me tell you that much.

They don't have the mental capacity to like sit and read the journals and do the things and read the studies and do an extra education system unless they truly, truly seek it. We all have our different arenas. That's why you can't go to one person for everything, you know. We can bring it back to like even our relationships. We can't just have our like partners be sole only friend, only best friend, only lover. Like, we can't do that either. We have to— in our life spectrum, we have different friends for certain things. We have our partner to do certain things. We have different doctors for certain things. We have different coaches for different things. We have different specialists. We have to just be in that mindset. Not everything is going to be that one thing. We have to look at all spectrums and be okay with that. And yes, it might require a little bit more balancing of the organization system on our calendar, but it gives you the actual answers and fulfillment that we're Right.

Yeah, no, I, I, I rag on doctors, but I shouldn't as much because they are part of a broken system and that broken system requires them to spend very little time with their patients because of the insurance reimbursement and everything. So I understand that they're, they're part of a system and I, and I see the sort of helplessness and the frustration in my own doctor who wants to be compassionate and who wants to be a good doctor and simply does not have the expertise expertise or the time to address the kinds of things that I'm bringing up because I'm getting deep into it, you know. Exactly. And she's a, she's a primary. So anyway, so, okay, so I know you're about to launch a group coaching program. So can you tell us a bit about the length and the format and how people find out more and sign up?

Yeah. So I run two programs. One is the Gut Recharge program and one is the Labyrinth. And so depends on what we are looking for. And I gave you the link for the Gut Recharge Program. So that's the metabolic restoration one. So this is where we are focusing on what is going on, why do we have food sensitivities, what are the daily practices, what are the new nutrition routines we have to implement. We talk about supplements, we talk about things like that, and it really gives you again what we were just talking about, the foundations, so that you can go talk to your doctors and give you your confidence back and know what's going on. And that's a 4-week program. The modules are automated, but we have our live coaching because I do think live coaching is so valuable. So on Fridays we have our live Q&As. And then for anyone that's struggling with anxiety, I have The Labyrinth, which is focusing on the gut-brain connection and really optimizing our mental health and healing our relationship with food and our bodies and our life so that we can gain back control.

You describe The Labyrinth— two different labyrinths, or describe two different programs there?

Yes, I did. Gut Recharge is the metabolism program.

Okay. And then the Labyrinth was the anxiety.

Correct.

Okay. Are they— is one of them starting soon or are they both starting soon?

Yeah, we just started the Gut Recharge program. We are on week 1. We just finished, so we're coming into week 2 right now. And then the Labyrinth starts at the end of October.

And that is also 4 weeks?

That one is 5 weeks.

5 weeks. Okay. And you have weekly group coaching calls?

So the Labyrinth is all live. So it's kind of just like you're FaceTiming me inside of a Facebook group and you get to ask your questions live.

Okay. I do occasionally have people say, well, I'm not on Facebook. How do I do this?

Yeah. And that's— I mean, I just got to sign up.

Yeah.

I'm like, you can make a pop-up Facebook group. It's just you don't have to use it for social media purposes. But that is where I host that program.

And what time of day do you do your group? Calls or what day of the week?

Yeah, so our Gut Recharge Q&As are on Fridays at 1 PM Eastern Standard Time, and then the Labyrinth, that's not till October, but that'll be 2 PM, I believe we have, for Eastern Standard Time on Tuesdays.

Okay, so it's a once a week call?

Correct.

Right. Okay.

Yeah.

So the link to sign up for any of those is www.healingtohappy.com/highdeserthealth, and that will be in the show notes. Correct. Okay. And so do they receive any sort of one-on-one at all in the context of the group programs, or how does that work?

No, that's outside of— that's my Gut Accelerator program, my one-to-one, which is a 3-month mentorship.

But can they email you? Can they—

yeah, they drop the questions in either through email or through the group, and then I answer them live.

Okay, so there is, there is some chance to ask questions.

Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. That's why the live aspect is so important so that you can always get the things because I don't like the automated, only automated. And then you're like, but I got questions.

Right, right.

Of course.

Anything else you would like to share with my listeners?

Just wherever you are, know that the harder we fight our bodies and the more we fear it, the longer the healing journey is going to be. When we give it a space of, what are you trying to communicate with me? How can I honor that? And where can I go? It really does change the trajectory of the story of being not stuck in this, but the journey. It's a journey of a lifetime to learn how your body works and what it's trying to tell you. And we can't be at war with it and win when that happens.

Great. Well, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us. I appreciate you coming on. Of course.

Thank you for having me.

It's my pleasure. Again, if you're interested in one of Laura's group coaching programs, I will link to that in the show notes. But again, the URL is healingtohappy.com/highdeserthealth. And if you'd like to connect with me online, you can follow my High Desert Health Facebook page or join my Gut Healing Facebook group or join my newsletter list at highdeserthealthcooking.com. And links for those are in the show notes. And if you are a big fan of the show and you listen on Apple Podcasts and haven't yet left me a rating and a review, I'd really appreciate you doing that. Thanks for joining me today, and here's wishing you all the perfect stool.