Investing in Yourself: Ann Marie's Gut Health Journey

Welcome to The Perfect Stool: Understanding and Healing the Gut Microbiome. This is your host, Lindsey Parsons, and today on the podcast I have Anne-Marie, who is a healthy 62-year-old woman who works as an art director, who I started working with about 9 months ago. She finished up her last appointment of a 5-appointment gut health coaching program in mid-April. I asked if she would come on the show and talk about her experience working with me, because I think it will help people better understand what I do as a gut health coach and maybe give folks some ideas on how to proceed with solving their problems. But before we start, please follow or subscribe to the show if you haven't yet, so you won't miss an episode. And if you want transcripts of the podcast, you can subscribe to my newsletter at HighDesertHealthCoaching.com and you'll get a reminder when they come out a week after the podcast comes out in your inbox. Plus you'll get my free ebooklet, Finding Your Root Cause Through Stool and Organic Acids Testing. Now onto the show.

Welcome so much to the podcast, Annemarie.

Hi, Lindsey. How are you today? I'm doing great.

How are you?

Good. Thank you.

So I really appreciate you coming on and sharing about your experience and working with me.

It's my pleasure.

Okay. So let me start off by having you give our listeners some background on what you were first complaining about when you came to see me, your major health complaints and how long they'd been going on.

Right. When I first contacted you, I had severe constipation that got progressively worse over a 4.5-year period, and I had done some research online because traditional medical treatments could not diagnose what my problem was, and it was getting more difficult to have a normal life with this problem that was continuing.

And what kind of practitioners had you seen before me to try and get help?

I, I went to my MD and then she sent me to a specialist. I'm sorry, I cannot recall the specialty.

Gastroenterologist?

Yeah, it's a gastro— yes, that is correct. And I went to actually 2 or 3 different ones over the 4.5-year period and followed their criteria for colonoscopies, CAT scans, and to no avail. I could not, I could not get an answer for what was causing my continual constipation and intestinal upset. Mm-hmm.

And so beyond the constipation itself, like, what were the symptoms that you were experiencing?

Right, so the constipation, as you suffer through that process, it, it takes away your, your energy and I found that my mood was a bit depressed, a lot, because things were not processing properly. I spent a lot of time cooking fresh vegetables and buying fresh fish and trying to eat as much as I could organically, and my body was not responding. So it was extremely frustrating. And without a diagnosis, I had all these visions that it was something far more severe. Than, than what I knew it to be after we started working together.

And were you having stomach pain and bloating as well?

Yes, absolutely. There was bloating, definitely pain. It was to the point where I was taking ibuprofen, 2 or 3, 200 milligrams, to, to ease the discomfort in my gut. So there was a lot going on, and I didn't know how to separate out the different symptoms. That's one of the things that that you had helped me with when we started working together, what was causing the different symptoms.

And what kinds of treatments did the gastroenterologists suggest?

Basically, they put me on over-the-counter fiber supplements and stool softeners and, you know, things like milk of magnesia, which were not solving the problem. They, they What happened by the time I met you, we, my bowels were not moving. The over-the-counter treatments were not working. They were not working. So it was extremely frustrating. And they offered me a prescription to resolve the constipation with no diagnosis. And that was extremely difficult. I could not do that. So I kept searching. I really wish I had known somebody who had gone through the process because that would have encouraged me to make the jump and try a holistic approach to solving my issues.

And you had an actual IBS diagnosis though, didn't you?

I did indeed.

Right.

I did.

And, and my understanding was it was IBS-D or diarrhea first, and then, and then after menopause it turned into IBS-C. Is that right? Correct.

That is correct. Yes. Okay.

Yeah. And so that was sort of within that 4.5-year period, or was it a little bit before that?

I would say a little bit longer than that. When I had the diarrhea, it was ongoing, but it was more manageable, much more manageable. And then when I crossed over to menopause, I think things slowed down and, you know, my body obviously changed, the hormonal changes, and things got really, really difficult. Okay.

So I don't know if you recall when we first talked, so we had our first appointment, which is typical that I'll, I'll have a first appointment with clients, uh, before we, any testing is done. And I taught you about some things that help to relieve constipation. Do you recall what those were?

I do, I do not. I do not remember what they were.

So I think, I think some of the first things, and I, I don't know if you necessarily did them all right off the bat, but one was vitamin C. Another was magnesium and another was Atrantil.

Right. Yes. And I had already been taking magnesium, but the— based on information from another nutritionist, she had suggested I take magnesium, but it wasn't nearly enough. After working with you, you explained to me that the amount I was taking wasn't really serving a purpose. So even though I was taking things like vitamin C, I was so far off the mark. I was not taking enough to, to resolve any of my issues. And I wouldn't have known that without, without your, your help and assistance through the process. Yeah.

And so you had done the GI MAP and the organic acids test, and that's, you know, a really big investment in testing. There's like, you know, it is $700 plus. So I'm, I'm wondering why was it worth it to you to spend that much? And in retrospect, was it a good decision? Yes, okay.

So the reason for my, for my brain, I pay a good deal of money to my employer for my insurance premiums. And by the time I met you, I had spent close to $3,000, you know, trying to figure out what this was in copays on tests and doctor appointments. And I was really feeling like the only way to get back to somewhat normal existence was to invest in my health. And by taking those two tests, you had assured me that the tests were very revealing and that we would get a lot of information. And I will tell you, I did not— I was very cynical initially because traditional medicine couldn't solve my problem. I really was a little bit cynical, like, geez, is Lindsey Parsons really going to be able to help me? So when I got the test results and we reviewed them together, you were very thorough and you went line by line explaining to me. It was an emotional moment because I actually had a clue to what was causing my severe issues. It felt very— it was like a great relief. I finally had some answers. Yeah.

So yeah, on your GI map, you know, we found that you had H. pylori, which was under the levels considered normal, but, and some practitioners do believe that you can have H. pylori and it can be a healthy commensal organism.

Yeah.

If it doesn't have the virulence factors that cause cancer and ulcers. Ulcers.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. And yours didn't.

Right.

But we did decide that, you know, given your symptoms, that it was worth treating. Because, because obviously it's one thing if you have no symptoms and have H. pylori, it's another thing if you have terrible symptoms and have it. Right. Yeah. Yes. And then you also had high levels of Clostridia and Streptococcus and A. muciniphila, which is a, again, like some of these are commensals, they're good bacteria, but not when there's too much of 'em. Mm-hmm. And then you had a high level of, of a protozoan called Blastocystis hominis, which some practitioners treat as a parasite, but it's also present in healthy people and more and more practitioners are leaving it alone. Mm-hmm. And then you also had low levels of pancreatic elastase 1, which indicates suppressed pancreatic function and likely low stomach acid, especially if you have H. pylori.

Yes. Yeah.

Yes. And then you also had low levels of secretory IgA, which is our primary immune defense in the gut that helps maintain the microbiome and protect against the toxins that can come in with your food, including bacteria. And one of the main reasons that that can go low is stress, and you'd been through an extended period of stress before that all began. Do you want to share a little bit about that?

Yeah, that's correct. So along with continuing my full-time career as an art director, my, my mom became ill, and the decision was made between my siblings and me to keep her home in hospice care. But what that meant was she was 45-minute drive away. We had round-the-clock care along with staying at the house ourselves and caring for her for nearly 2 and a half years. So we had the maintenance of the home plus the management of the caregivers, which basically fell on me. So along with trying to work and support myself and maintain a, a somewhat normal life, I also had care of my mom, which was about 30 to 36 hours a week on top of the full-time job. And it was an extremely stressful situation. And as the years, months went by, I was sleeping less and less. And I definitely suffered intestinally. The, the constipation got much more severe during that time period.

Yeah. I wanted you to share about that just because I, you know, I just did a previous podcast on stress and yours was one of these sort of textbook situations where you might have had H. pylori and been okay with it. Possibly.

Yes.

But I guess you were, you were having symptoms in any case, but they got a lot worse when you were under stress.

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

And then on the organic acids test, you had some slightly elevated yeast levels and elevated bacterial levels, in particular with Clostridia and the marker for C. difficile or Clostridia difficile. And then you had an elevated oxalate marker, which can happen when there's excess yeast. And yes, you know, it's normally about 3 to 5% of the gut microbiome and then low levels of a few of the B vitamins. And then most notably, you had low levels of all of the organic acids that show the levels of your neurotransmitters, that is the dopamine, epinephrine, and norepinephrine, also known as adrenaline and noradrenaline and serotonin. Mm-hmm. So yeah, you mentioned a little bit about being depressed. Was there any other mental health symptoms that you were having that those markers brought to light?

Yeah, I definitely think that, you know, the depression and low, low mood and my energy was just horrible, and I was attributing it to the additional stress of my mother's care on top of work. But I will tell you that I really wish that I had had, you know, someone that I was in contact with that I trusted that could have said, you know, you really need to find out what's going on inside. And because I had worked with the medical community and gone back and forth to the doctor for this issue, I thought that I was doing the best I could for my body. And then those tests revealed to me that there was so much critical information to how I was feeling that my traditional doctors could not or never suggested to look for. So it was really an eye-opener. And I came to this route because the frustration of not knowing, number one. So I started researching online, and I'm also a little bit cynical about what I'm reading, like, is this accurate information? So quite honestly, the podcast really helped. It really helped because you were interviewing and talking to people on The Perfect Stool who were medical professionals. Who were talking about patients that had symptoms like me, or, or had helped patients by suggesting certain dietary changes and adding certain supplements. And I'm thinking, my goodness, this is, this is really eye-opening. There's lots of people like me who have this intestinal issue that have not been able to get it resolved. There was so much comfort in that.

Yeah, yeah, no, it's good to know you're not alone and, and you're suffering. So you had also had some, some anxiety or some panic attacks before too, didn't you?

I did, I did. Those happened in early January, and you and I had connected about 7 months after that. And you know, the doctor told me that I was severely hydrated, and I'm a woman who drinks 80+ ounces of water a day.

Wait, severely dehydrated?

Severely dehydrated, right? And when I think back, if everything that's going into my stomach and my intestines is not being processed properly by my body, it may have been— I gave him a hard time and said, what are you talking about? I drink so much, you know, water all the time. And they had done 2 bags of intravenous and I still didn't need to pee. So he said, that's a sure sign that that you are severely dehydrated. And it sort of makes sense now. I mean, you know, things were not functioning well at all for me.

Yeah. Okay. So when you came to get help with your gut, did you have any idea that we might also be working on your mental health?

I did not. I did not. But I did know I was intelligent enough to realize that the gut issues were bringing me down. Yeah. Yeah, because I'm a physically active person, and if you haven't been able to move your bowels for 4 or 5 days, it's very hard to take a walk and enjoy that walk.

Yeah.

So, so yes, I suspected that it was just strictly related to the lack of being able to, to move my bowels, but soon learned from the testing that it was, it was bigger than that.

Yeah. So then at that point, before we even started doing much with your gut other than just that Atrantil, which is, which is just a polyphenol product, I taught you about how to use the amino acids to bring up your levels of neurotransmitters. And once you started to use them in that way, how did your mental state change?

Yeah. I would say that it took about— the, the thing that's important to note is, you know, every time I— you introduced a new supplement, I didn't feel results within 48 hours or, you know, 3 days like other kinds of prescriptions prescribed by the medical world had done, you know, solving things within 48 hours. I will say the supplements took some time, but once they started to work, and it was probably about 10 days after, the ones that were directed for my mood, I could feel the change and it was amazing. It was amazing. I, I hadn't felt that positive or uplifted in a very long time, so it felt great.

Awesome.

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Com. So in terms of intervening on the gut health stuff, while we were working to support your gut immunity and bring up your secretory IgA with a product called Mega IgG, which is like derived from colostrum, and then the S. boulardii probiotics, and then we were also working on your stomach acid levels with the betaine HCl and digestive enzymes, I had you adding more fiber to your diet by increasing your intake of beans and legumes.

That's correct.

Yeah.

Yes.

And before that, you had had trouble with fiber, hadn't you?

Yes, I did. So when you and I met, one of the things that I enjoyed was eating a salad or other vegetables, raw vegetables, and it was nearly impossible because I would eat my small salad and then I would really be suffering because I had ingested, you know, try to eat raw vegetables, and that, that has changed. I can comfortably eat raw vegetables now. Yeah, and high-fiber foods like the, the beans and the legumes that I continue to eat.

Awesome.

Probably every other day.

Now, do you remember why we did that? Why I had you do that?

Yes, I questioned you and asked you if I had to continue to do that. I don't know if you recall that.

I'm sure you questioned me about everything.

Yeah.

You let me get away with nothing.

You had recommended that I try and eat the beans every day, at least I think it was a quarter of a cup. I can't recall. It's been, there's so much information.

Sometimes I tell people a half a cup. It depends on how large you're, you're a pretty small woman, so I don't know. I can't remember if I told you half or a quarter.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But initially when I, when I had to eat them, it was difficult. And then As things got better, feeling better, and I, I very easily, I could eat them every day with no problem at all now.

Yeah. And the reason we did that though, was to start feeding the good bugs in your gut to start building up the healthy bacteria in preparation for killing the H. pylori so that there would be something there to take over when it started heading out. Yes. Yes. Okay. So. I think you'd agree that one of the biggest changes came when I taught you about how H. pylori can be eradicated using mastic gum, which is a more natural and gentle alternative to the triple therapy that the doctors use, which is, which consists of like 2 antibiotics and a proton pump inhibitor. So how did you feel after the H. pylori was gone?

Even, even the process of healing, you worked on healing my intestinal lining, I believe, first, even that made a difference. And then we moved towards. Getting rid of the H. pylori. And once again, I just want to say it's not an overnight, 24-hour fix. You know, it takes a commitment to stay the course. But I find it very hard to believe that if I went the traditional route to get rid of the H. pylori, that I would feel as good as I do now. I can't imagine that multiple antibiotics would have left me feeling so good after a couple weeks of those, I can't imagine, uh, it would've resolved a lot of what was going on.

Yeah.

Just that alone.

Well, I think the danger, and, and it often fails, I think the danger with the antibiotics is that you wipe out all of the bacteria, not just the H. pylori, and then you end up with an overgrowth of yeast.

Yeah.

And that's where I find a lot of people that, they come to me after that process has happened, not necessarily for H. pylori, but just from antibiotics in general.

Yes.

Yeah. Yes.

That's, that's actually happened to me in the past. Yes.

Yeah. And on your original organic acids test, there was some slightly elevated yeast levels to begin with, as well as the elevated Clostridium and Streptococcus. And so after that, I taught you about the BioCidin products and grapefruit seed extract to work on those. Yes. And those, those were a bit stronger and I, my recollection is you didn't have a very good reaction when you were on those. Can you tell everyone a little bit about that?

Yeah. So the, the supplements that you just recommended, I followed your regime to increase them as you told me, titrate up, because I found that if I went to the full dosage recommended, I would really feel the difference with the grapefruit, the citric, uh, I can't remember.

Grapefruit seed extract. Citricidal.

Yeah, citricidal. I really felt really awful. It's almost like a slight flu symptom that I would get when the supplement wasn't working or agreeing with me off the bat. But I did hang in and say, okay, I might feel a little uncomfortable for a day or two, but it's going to get me to the next level or a better place. And that's important information, I think, for people that the initial introduction of some of the supplements supplements, I really felt— and I don't think everybody probably experiences the same thing, but I hung in there believing that you were, you know, setting me on the right path. And it definitely made a difference. It was so worth it to stay the course and do the recommended suggestions that you had given me in our calls, in our meetings.

Yeah, so they are right. When you, when you get on supplements for— that are antimicrobial and in particular when they fight yeast, you can have these die-off reactions where you're getting all of the byproducts of dead microbes.

Right.

Going through your system. And sometimes this happens too fast. So now, I mean, I usually warn people when you start, if there's any problems like that, the flu-like reaction to just stop. That's your, that's a Herxheimer reaction. To just stop taking 'em and let that pass and, and to take something like a GI detox or an activated charcoal. In order to absorb the byproducts of the die-off so that then those will be ushered out of your body, and then you can resume so that you don't have too strong a reaction.

Right, right. And you, you know, as you said, you recommend to other people— you also recommended the activated charcoal for me, and it definitely helped on more than one occasion to have that available, that it was in my house. So if I felt like I was really feeling uncomfortable and the supplement was causing the discomfort, that the activated charcoal really did take the edge off and help me through it.

Yeah. So during the time we worked together, I had to use a variety of different probiotics. I— yes, you were starting— when I, when I met you, you were already taking VisBiome, which is like the new name of VSL3. Is that right?

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that is correct.

And then some of the other ones that you used were the Bio-Kult Proflora4R, which is a spore-based probiotic, and S. boulardii, which is a beneficial yeast.

Mm-hmm.

So do you have any sense of the role that the probiotics played in your healing or any that you particularly liked?

Well, you know, it's really hard. I, I can't say clearly because I had a regime of many other supplements happening at the same time. So I do not know the one that— the last one that you recommended, is it Mega 2000?

Oh, Mega Sporebiotic?

Yes.

Okay.

I mean, that's the only one that I can distinctly say I really like taking because a lot of the other supplements I took for maybe 8 weeks or 12 weeks and then they were weaned out of my schedule. But taking so many at the same time was a bit overwhelming. I felt like pill crazy, you know. I was trying to keep track of them, which I did because I really wanted to get well. But it was hard to know unless I introduced something new into the schedule. It was hard to know which ones were making me feel good, bad, or different other than the mood ones. The mood ones I knew right away, you know, within a a week to 10 days that they were really helping how I felt.

Yeah. So, so we started working together, like, it was like 9 months ago, and now I'm a lot more thoughtful about people doing one thing at a time so they really can tell how each thing contributes.

Yes.

That's one, one change that I've made since then. Yeah.

And I think that the process has taught me that I have a very sensitive body and digestive tract. I, I really think that maybe others would not have had the same reactions because everybody's body is so different.

Yeah, no, I, I, I have noticed that. Yeah. People completely differ. There's some people who just don't feel like they, like they could have H. pylori and not even feel it. Like they literally don't know.

Right. Right.

So it can affect people differently. So now that you've had some time for your gut to settle after the final round of supplements, how are you feeling?

I feel terrific. I feel terrific. And I, I try not to question why I didn't do it sooner, you know, jump on board sooner when I started to learn about this different process to heal my problems. But, you know, I'm an older, more mature person. And when I've had medical issues, my doctor has been able to help me resolve them. So I was hanging on to that thought process and listening to podcasts and reading about digestion issues. It took me a while to walk over the bridge to a different way of healing, you might say. And I can, I can only say that I highly recommend to other people now, even now, not to wait to deal with your gut issues because it makes a huge difference. I feel like I'm living again. I'm not analyzing everything I eat or stressing stressing because I can't eat something. I'm so much more knowledgeable. It was— so working with you was like a private education in digestive health. It really was. I've learned so much through this process. You know, when I first started working with you, it almost felt like a foreign language, but I have a better understanding. I don't know, I can't tell you exactly which supplement did what, but But I do know that each one was beneficial along this, this path to healing.

Yeah. Now you were a good sport about taking a lot of pills and, and you know, some people are just like, oh, you know, it's that, well, for, for many reasons, sometimes it's finances in terms of being able to get all the same supplements at once. Yeah. Sometimes it's more just the logistics. Yeah. And sometimes it's, you know, they can't fit 'em in at certain times of the day. So, you know, I am flexible with different people, depending on, on those, that situation. But you seem to be game to stick with whatever schedule I suggested. And so I, uh, I, I threw, I threw everything but the kitchen sink at you to get you, to get you better as fast as possible. Yeah.

And I desperately wanted to heal. I mean, it had been years and, you know, I was so worn down from the process. I mean, when you have digestive issues, it's an ongoing crisis, I guess. And what happened to me was the ongoing digestive problems became my normal. And it's really sad when you sort of just shrug your shoulders and say, oh well, this is my life, you know, I guess I can't have a bowel movement for 4 days, you know, it's just a very bad thing. So I was, I was really excited that when we first stepped in and I, and I got some diagnosis that there was a possibility that I could get to a better place. And I was committed to that, as you know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I appreciated your commitment and follow-through cuz not everybody does exactly what I recommend.

Right. So, but, but you're absolutely right. I mean, it's really important that your listeners know that it, it is definitely a, a commitment, but it is so worth it at the end of the line. It is so worth it to have a healthy gut.

Yeah. Yeah. So I wanted to circle back about the oxalates. I'm not sure how much I've talked about oxalates before on the podcast, so I did wanna just give a little background on that. 'Cause oxalate and its acid form, oxalic acid, is an organic acid that comes from the food you eat and from the metabolism of fungi like Aspergillus, Penicillium, and Candida, and then through normal human metabolism. But it's really acidic and it's like what they actually use to remove rust from car radiators.

Yeah.

And so most of the stones in the body, like gallstones and kidney stones, are made of calcium oxalate. And then, mm-hmm, the oxalate crystals can form in other places in the body. I mean, like they can form in those stones, but you know, wherever they form, they can cause pain and damage and increased inflammation because they're like sharp crystals. So that can take place in the bones where they can crowd out bone marrow cells and cause anemia and immunosuppression. It can happen in the joints causing joint pain. It can happen in the blood vessels where they can cause damage in the thyroid. Like if you've had a thyroid nodule at the root of it, could be an oxalate crystal that your body is trying to cover up. They can cause urinary tract infections by making small cuts in the urinary tract that the bacteria can infect and cause vulvodynia or vulvar pain. And, and then even in the lungs and brain, they can interfere with normal functioning. And so you had a history of gallstones and then you also showed an elevated oxalate marker and you were also avoiding dairy products. So I, my recollection is that I taught you about how taking calcium citrate with meals can help absorb excess oxalates and usher them outta the body. And then I think I suggested you move to a more moderate oxalate diet. So do you remember doing that and the foods that you were eating that were high in oxalates and the changes you might have made?

Yes, absolutely. I was, I was eating a lot of dark leafy greens thinking that they were the best, you know, really good for me. Lots of blueberries and nuts. I think it was almonds.

Mm-hmm.

But I, I will say that I didn't realize that, that could be causing the problem. Obviously, this, this whole process has been a learning experience. And the terminology, even listening to your podcast, The Perfect Stool, the terminology between you and the doctors or the guests that you're talking to, many times I would go to the internet and Google the terms so that I could get a better understanding. And I understand what you're telling me now, but it'd be very difficult for me to tell you correctly exactly what the supplement is. And, and that's another reason to work with you, because I'm an art director, I have expertise in my field, but this is so far away from my field. And your expertise can teach people so much more about what their body's doing, and those tests are so revealing.

Yeah. Yeah, I know it's— but you did pinpoint those leafy greens like the kale and spinach and the nuts and the blueberries and such that are high in all the, all the stuff that people think are healthy. So did— were you able to, to reduce those kind of foods in your diet for a time?

I did. I did. I was much more careful about choosing other vegetables because I know from, you know, being a healthy eater that vegetables are very important in our diet. And so I, I switched more to broccoli and cabbage and, and things did not, that didn't cause that situation to happen.

Yeah. And once, you know, your yeast levels come down, usually your body can handle the amount of oxalate that's produced. So, oh, you know, some people in the long term do have to pay more attention to it. And especially if you start seeing like those initial things like UTIs or urinary tract infections, that is.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Then, then that's kind of one of those early markers that you might be starting to have problems with oxalates. So some people do have to watch it in the long term, but generally it's, it's the elevated levels of yeast that are causing the excess oxalates.

Ah, I see. Yeah.

Okay.

And then of course, if you have a meal with dairy, then you don't have to worry about it. But for people who avoid dairy like I do, I, I'll take a calcium citrate with each meal that has oxalates in it.

Yes. Yes. I'm doing okay as far as dairy consumption. I find that if I eat less of it, I feel a lot more comfortable. And I do, I do indulge and I have it maybe once a week, but I do stay away from it because I like feeling really good.

Yeah.

It's worth it not to eat it.

And you stay away from gluten too, right?

I do. I'm gluten-free and that, that's something that I was doing before we met.

Right.

And then I knew of taking some dairy out, but after we met and you educating me, on trying to eliminate the dairy for at least a time. Yeah. And noticing the difference was amazing. I have so much less mucus in my sinuses, in my throat, now that I'm not consuming dairy even every other day. I mean, it's amazing.

It's exactly how I feel without dairy. Yeah. As I say, dairy is bad for me in all sorts of different ways.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But you were pretty typical of my clients, which is to say you were, you already were eating a very healthy diet. And I find that by the time people come and see me, they kind of have already done a lot of the dietary stuff. So I don't usually put really stringent dietary demands, but I do, I do often suggest that, you know, reducing gluten and dairy, especially if anyone, like if you know that you, you have the gene for lactase persistence and you know that you can digest the lactose. Then, and you don't seem to react to dairy, then I might not necessarily say to get rid of that unless someone has an autoimmune condition, in which case I usually, I usually like to see the dairy and the gluten and sugar and such go away.

Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. Yes.

So what was it like communicating with me over email between our sessions?

Well, um, I will say that you were very prompt. You normally responded to me within 24 hours. You know, and I often reached out because I would feel the differences with the new supplements, and I just wanted to be assured that that's pretty normal to feel that way. And, you know, that, you know, titrating up carefully and slowly was the way to do things. And then I would double-check with you if taking the activated charcoal would, would help a situation that I was feeling. So that was, that was really important to know that I was going to get an answer quickly, you know. Yeah, I wasn't wondering if, if Lindsey Parsons was ever going to get back to me. That— I don't think that ever happened to me in this whole process.

I hope not. Okay, and then any advice to anyone who, who might be sitting on the fence about getting some professional help with their gut problems?

Yes, yes, I think that even, even if you have to, like I did on occasion charge the supplements. You're worth the investment. And the change of quality of life is so big, it's so worth it. Everything is better when you're digesting your foods properly and able to go to the bathroom properly, whether it's diarrhea or constipation or indigestion and acid reflux and all those uncomfortable things that we put up with every single day. I wish somebody had given me a pep talk and said, look, take care of your health, spend the money on yourself, and get yourself to a healthier place. It's worth every penny.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing about this. Any final words that you want to say, or was that, was that it?

I think that's it. And I wish anybody who's thinking about entering the process the best of luck, and once again encourage them not to hesitate to go ahead and start working on yourself.

Well, I really appreciate you coming on and sharing about your experience. I think this will be really beneficial to people who are, who are out there kind of sitting on the fence and not sure about whether it's worth getting help. So I appreciate you sharing about it.

It's my pleasure. Thank you, Lindsey Parsons.

And it was such a pleasure to work with you, Annemarie.

Oh, thank you. Likewise, likewise. And in the future, I'll be back. I'm just, you know, waiting like 4 or 5 months, and then maybe invest a little bit more to see where I'm at now.

Uh, so yeah, it's fun.

You haven't heard the last of me, Lindsey.

I hope not. It's fun to retest and see, see how things have come along.

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay. Well, thanks for, thanks for being with us today.

Okay. You have a good day and stay well.

Okay. You too.

So if you're ready to take the leap and hear more about solving your gut health problems, you're welcome to set up a free 30-minute breakthrough session with me. We'll talk about what you've been going through, and I'll tell you about my Gut Health Coaching 5-Appointment Program, in which I recommend lab tests, educate you on what the results mean, and the protocols used by doctors to fix the problems revealed. Or if you're ready to jump in right away or can just afford one appointment at a time, you can set up an initial consultation with me. Both are linked in the show notes, or you can check out my website, HighDesertHealthCoaching.com, to read more about me and my work. You'll also find links for joining my Facebook group called Gut Healing, as well as links for my other social media channels. And if you're looking for a way to support the show, you can buy temperature-controlled, high-quality vetted supplements in my Fullscript or Wellivate dispensaries. And I also have an affiliate account at evitamins.com with really good prices on many of the same supplements that I see in Fullscript and Wellivate, so you can support me there as well. That's all for today, and here's wishing you all the perfect stool.