What Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis Can Tell You about Gut Health with Hope Pedraza

Welcome to The Perfect Stool: Understanding and Healing the Gut Microbiome. This is your host, Lindsey Parsons, and today I will be speaking with Hope Pedraza, certified holistic nutritionist, functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner, certified hair tissue and mineral analysis expert, human design guide, and Reiki practitioner, about minerals and how they impact gut health and autoimmunity. But before our conversation, if you haven't yet followed or subscribed to the show, be sure to do so. And if you want to get transcripts of the podcast, pop over to my website, HighDesertHealthCoaching.com, and sign up for my newsletter. You'll also get my free ebooklet, Finding Your Root Cause Through Stool and Organic Acids Testing, when you sign up. And if you haven't yet done my quiz on which stool test would help you get to your root cause, you can find a link in the show notes and take that. Now on to the show.

Welcome to the podcast, Hope. Thanks, Lindsey.

Hi, Lindsay. Thanks so much for having me.

Yeah, it's my pleasure.

So since you're a certified hair tissue and mineral analysis expert, we're going to talk a lot about minerals today and their role in digestion. So let's start with the big 4 minerals.

Yeah, I love that. Jumping right in. Yes. So the big 4 are the, the macrominerals, right? Like the ones we need the most of. So these are calcium, magnesium, potassium, and sodium. And all of these— so I think, well, let me backtrack. It's important to know that, especially when we're looking at a hair tissue mineral analysis, the individual minerals are important, but then also the relationships between all of the minerals are important. So they all kind of play off of each other, right? Some work synergistically with others, some work antagonistically against others. So this is why the right mineral balance is so important, because so often if we're not directly addressing what the mineral imbalances are, we could be— we could potentially be making things worse because then we're taking more of these when really taking more of these is going to mess these up. So in the Big Four, there's a relationship between all four of those is important for all of those as well. So when we're looking at the Big Four, the macrominerals, right, all of those play— well, they play so many roles in the body and including digestion, how your thyroid is working, how we're pushing things in and out of the cells. A lot of these work alongside with other minerals as precursors to different hormones and enzymes that are related to digestion, the formation of other hormones. And so the right balance of these 4 is crucial. I don't know if you want to go through each one of them individually.

Yeah, why not?

Okay, cool. So I'll start with calcium. So talking about calcium, calcium is a structural mineral, right? We need it for our bones and our teeth. And really, 99% of it is supposed to be in our bones and our teeth, but it's also needed for your thyroid hormones. So it helps with your metabolism and how your hormones, your thyroid is working. Now with calcium, I find, at least in doing the labs that I run, that excess is far more common than deficiency. And so when you're seeing an excess on an HTMA, on a hair tissue mineral analysis, this is what's— and I should probably explain what that is too. So those who are listening, if you don't know what an HTMA is, it's a hair tissue mineral analysis. You're literally sending in some of your hair. And so when you're looking at your mineral levels, if you're getting a blood panel— and really, honestly, I believe this with just about any blood panel, but especially with looking at minerals— a blood panel is literally just a blip in time, right? It's like what's going on right now in your body. And so in a lot of instances, it's not all that helpful. And when you're looking at mineral levels, I find that it's really not all that helpful because, A, it's like what's happening now. So it's not even a look at what's going on. You could take the same lab test in 2 days and it's going to look different, right, on the blood test. It's just what's going on like right now. It's going to be affected by what you ate last night, what you ate this morning, and what you drank yesterday. You know, it's just going to be so variable. And when you're looking at mineral levels, the HTMA, we're looking at what's going on chronically, like what's going on over the last 3 to 4 months. Not only that, but a lot of minerals that we're looking at and some of these big 4 that we're talking about are intracellular, meaning they're supposed to be in your cells. So when you're looking at your blood levels, it's really not an accurate look at what's going on in a cellular level, like how your cells are utilizing these minerals. So I wanted to say that up front just so people that are listening understand what we're talking about. We're talking about the HTMA.

Right. Let me stop just for a second to say, when you're looking at— I know because people will see calcium, for example, or magnesium I think, on the comprehensive metabolic panel, which is one of the common blood tests that's run. And that is not the same as getting one of these hair tissue mineral analyses. That's basically saying, is your body functioning in sort of the minimum level possible such that your glands are properly regulating these very important minerals? It's not saying, are you getting sufficient amounts in your diet over time?

That's exactly it. Exactly it. And really, I mean, if we're talking about the difference between functional labs and conventional labs. I mean, that's the main difference, right? With conventional labs, the reference range is like, okay, are you alive? That's the basic, right? Well, you're not dead.

Are you near death? Do we need to intervene with an IV instantly?

Exactly. That's exactly it. So with functional labs, we're looking at optimal levels, right? Like, how do we live optimally? So, yes, you make a great point. So, yeah, it's totally different. And so we're looking at calcium levels on an HTMA. This is what's being pushed out into your tissues. So the issue here, and I mentioned that excess— typically excess is more common than deficiency on these labs— is when it's being pushed out into your tissues, this is when we know it's a problem because it can get to a point where it's so much is being pushed out into your tissues that it's building up what's called a calcium shell around your cells and around your nerves, and it's going to cause issues with cellular permeability, like how things are getting in and out of your cells. It's going to cause issues with how your brain is functioning because now you have this calcium shell building up around the nerves and stuff in your brain and brain fog. And I've had clients with this massive calcium shell that think they've literally been told they have ADD. Well, no, actually, we just need to fix your calcium levels. Literally, we fix your calcium levels and all of a sudden, no more brain fog and I can concentrate now. It's, it's wild. So calcium levels are an interesting one and I mean, sometimes there are symptoms of calcium excess, but a lot of times they're not what you think because sometimes, I mean, yeah, like you could have calcium buildup in the body, right? If you have cysts or bone spurs, like calcium buildup, kidney stones, that kind of thing.

Hardening of the arteries.

Yes, exactly. Calcification inside the arteries. But it doesn't always show up that way. And it's like for this client that I was mentioning, she's always the first one that comes to mind because she had this— I mean, her numbers were literally like off the charts. But for her, it wasn't blatant things like that. It was, you know, ADD, trouble concentrating. All these things were big for her. It was, is more of that kind of thing that like how her brain was functioning and her thyroid was functioning. Cause the thyroid wasn't able to get in the cells cuz you have this buildup. So calcium is always a, an interesting one for people and looking at how that shows up.

Yeah. In my experience, it's showing up as high for people that I see as well.

Yeah, really? Yeah. Do you find that they have the symptoms or is it kind of just like this underlying thing they're not really aware of?

Well, to be honest, I never knew that brain fog might be a symptom or ADHD of excess calcium. That's why I have you here to teach us about this stuff.

Yes. Yes.

You too.

Yes, totally. And again, just so people listening know, this is a different thing than calcification of the tissues is what we're talking about. And that's just sometimes how it shows up. When it's pushed out into the tissues. So another one is magnesium. And this one, magnesium is one of those which I'm sure you talk about magnesium all the time too. It's, it's involved in so many processes in the body, digestion, how your hormones are functioning, enzymatic reactions, like everything that's going on in the body. There's magnesium is used in almost everything that's going on. And, and to me, or at least in my experience, how I see it, it's so easily depleted in people. And I think because it's used in so many reactions in the body, that's how it gets so easily depleted in people. And I think the number now is like, I don't know, it's either— it's like between 70% and 80% of us or something like that are deficient in magnesium. I think this is why. And I think so often too, I have a lot of my clients who they're like, but I'm taking magnesium. Like, we're doing the lab and I'm like, oh man, your calcium, your magnesium levels, taking a supplement and I'm doing this and doing this, but your body is just running through the stores of it, just stress your adrenals, especially when your adrenals are working in overdrive, like it's just pushing through your magnesium supplies. Magnesium is one of those that's responsible for, you know, it helps with cell permeability, right? How things are getting in and out of the cells. It helps with muscle contractions, right? Or relaxation. Really, it's like the relaxation muscle. It's important for your heart. It's important for inflammation. And so when we're deficient, which a lot of us are, things can show up like depression and hypertension can show up. It can be a lot of times PMS and just like inflammatory things, right? PMS, maybe aches and pains, osteoporosis, maybe arthritis. And a lot of times too, in my clients, it may not even be as blatant as that, but it's just like overall dysfunction in the body. It's just like, right, it's just not functioning optimally because it's, again, your supplies are just running so low. Now, sodium is an interesting one.

And before we go into sodium, let me just stop you and ask, so in your experience, what kind of— for people who show up as deficient, what kind of repletion levels are you needing on a daily basis to get them back to sufficiency?

Good question. Good question. So it depends on the person and it depends on— depends on a few things. But typically I like to say 5 times your body weight in milligrams is what we want to shoot for. I feel like a lot of times this is why people are so deficient. Because if you look on, like, if you're taking a supplement, and this is one of those that I really like to work with supplements and with food, like diet and supplements on this one because we're so deficient. And if you look at most of the supplements on the shelf, they're like 150, 200 milligrams. I just think it's like nothing's happening with you taking 150 milligrams of magnesium.

But it takes up a lot of space. So you're taking a lot of pills if you're going to take it.

Otherwise, yeah. So if you can find magnesium glycinate, is always my number one recommendation. Your body absorbs that one the best. It's easiest on the gut. If you want a laxative, you take magnesium citrate. Otherwise, don't take it. But a lot of times, too, I find, especially with my clients that are super depleted in magnesium, I'll give them kind of a combination of a few different forms of magnesium, and we're going to add in the food on that one. So it's going to be 5 times your body weight. So for an average human adult, it would be between like 500 and 700 milligrams. And so if we shoot for at least that 500 milligram, I feel like we can be doing a good job of getting us closer to where we need to be. And then again, if somebody's super deficient, we'll do a combination of like glycinate, maybe malate, a 3 and 8 putting a few different ones together, even doing like some transdermal, like doing some soaks, right? You could do an Epsom salt bath. You could do either— it's either magnesium sulfate, you could do magnesium chloride. So doing like the transdermal where you're doing soaks sometimes can be— you can absorb that a little bit better. And then adding in some food sources too, right?

What are some good food sources?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Think leafy greens, nuts and seeds. I love pumpkin seeds, and I work a lot with women and their hormones too. So there are a lot of benefits for women's hormones by adding in pumpkin seeds.

Put them on every salad.

Yes, totally. Me too. We eat them all the time at my house. So we eat a ton of seeds. Yes. Nuts and seeds. Legumes can be, but I'd say that my top recommendations are typically the leafy greens and the nuts and seeds. I feel like that's the best way to get the magnesium.

Okay.

Yeah. So moving on to sodium. Sodium is where we go next. So sodium is an interesting one because speaking of, of digestion, this one is actually really important for digestion because sodium is needed to make proper stomach acid levels. So people that have chronically low stomach acid typically have issues with sodium. And so it never fails that my clients that are low on sodium, which is a lot of them, they have chronic bloating and it's because their food's not being digested properly because they have low stomach acid. And there's, you know, there's typically other factors at play, but the sodium piece always plays a role in that. I could literally talk about sodium all day. There's so much to talk about in sodium. It's, it's one of those, like, I find these days it's like carbs where, like, carbs were villainized for so long. So everybody's afraid of carbs. And I feel like sodium is the same. You know, you hear from your doctor and everybody else, you know, sodium causes high blood pressure and stroke and all the things, and eat a low sodium diet and watch your salt. And, and yes, you can say some of those are true, but in my experience, the way I see it, our sodium problem, especially here in the Western world, I can't speak for the whole world here, but at least in the Western world, the sodium problem, all these issues that we think sodium is causing is not from our— it's not a sodium intake problem. It's a sodium retention problem, because where are we getting the salt from? It's from processed foods, right? It's from, like, table salt. Table salt is like the equivalent of white sugar, right? It's had all these chemicals put on it to strip every nutritional value from it, and you're literally left with the sodium chloride. That's it. And so when you're looking at comparing that to unrefined salt, my recommendation is always Celtic sea salt. It's just so rich in so many trace minerals. You're looking at— to compare it, you're looking at like anywhere from like 85 to 95 other trace minerals in Celtic salt versus table salt, which is literally just sodium chloride. And so when you're eating an unrefined sea salt, you're getting all these other trace minerals along with the sodium. So all these other minerals are pushing the sodium where it needs to go. It's pushing all these other minerals where they need to go versus when you eat the table salt, just that refined salt from processed foods, your cells just soak it up. And then again, it's a sodium retention problem. So yeah, when you eat the standard, you know, standard American diet, the salt intake is going to— it's going to affect things. So when I'm doing the HTMA, I would say deficiency is far more common than excess in sodium. And it's typically for this reason. You're— well, first of all, a lot of it has to do with your adrenals. Your adrenals use more sodium than any other part of the body. So the our overworked, stressed out adrenals are zapping through your sodium stores just like they're zapping through your magnesium stores. And it never fails when I have somebody who has adrenal insufficiency or their adrenals are just totally shot, they're bloated all the time. Like, oh yeah, your sodium levels are in the toilet and your body's not digesting food. Your stomach is not functioning right. You know, your stomach acid is probably barely existing. And so, yeah, your digestion is going to suffer. So it's just like this chain reaction, right, with the minerals, which again, I love minerals so much. Is when we're looking at minerals, right? And you've probably said this before and your listeners have probably heard that minerals are called like the spark plugs in the body, right? But if you really think about that, nothing happens in the body without the minerals. Like, the minerals are what's going on at a cellular level. And this is what's causing every reaction in the body— your digestion, your hormones, your ins— like, everything going on starts with the minerals. So yeah, I think understanding this kind of chain reaction, especially when we're talking about digestion, the sodium piece is always a big one there.

Hey, this is Lindsey here, just letting you know that if you're tired of dealing with digestive issues like bloating, indigestion, soft stool, diarrhea, constipation, reflux, IBS, IBD, or the numerous health conditions that come about when your gut is off, like brain fog, weight gain, UTIs, fatigue, mental health issues, or complex conditions like fibromyalgia and ME/CFS, that's my specialty. With my 3 or 5 session gut health coaching packages, We'll discuss different stool and functional medicine tests to find out the root cause of your symptoms. I'll interpret the results and provide clear explanations, empowering you to make informed choices for your gut and overall health. And together we'll develop a customized action plan based on your test results so you can find relief and regain your health and vitality. I come from a functional medicine perspective, trying to incorporate the latest peer-reviewed research and educating you on protocols used by functional medicine practitioners, but devoting lots of time and support to my clients the way a doctor simply can't. If you're interested in a 3 or 5 session coaching package, you can sign up for complimentary 30-minute breakthrough session. Or if you can only afford one appointment at a time, you can book an initial 60-minute consultation. Links for those are in the show notes. Now back to the show. Cool. Yeah.

So I know, I know it's because we are dealing with, well, I don't know if you, but in my clients, I'm dealing with a certain subset of people who are already on a super healthy non-processed food diet. They've already cut out the gluten and the dairy. They're, you know, so they're all dialed in. So it's So it's that kind of diet where you precisely can end up with these deficiencies.

Yeah.

Sodium, for example.

Right. For sure.

Yeah.

And my mom, for example, I use my mom as an example. I've run some labs on my mom. And granted, she also grew up in the generation where the doctor makes you terrified of salt. So she's like, not putting salt on anything. And she's wondering why she has headaches all the time. And I kept telling her, your sodium levels. And then it wasn't until her friend who's a nurse was like, oh, yeah, your daughter's probably right. Okay. So then she starts adding adding some salt to her diet. And sure enough, things start shifting. But yeah, it is. It definitely affects things in a way that I think we just— again, I think we've just been so scared of it for so long because we don't want to have a stroke or heart attacks. It's like we avoid the sodium. It makes a difference.

Now I'm super curious what my sodium level was on my hair tissue mineral analysis. Let's see where it was. Oh, I don't think I see— oh, there it is. It's a little bit low.

Yeah, not too bad though, probably close to—

No, it's sort of— yeah, it's— well, it's 30 and the range is 20 to 250, so it's within normal, but it's not great.

Yeah, trending low. Yeah, that one is super common and it usually surprises people. The sodium thing usually surprises people. It surprises people. Okay, so the last one of the big 4 is potassium, and this is one of those intracellular minerals that 99% of it, it's in your cells. So a blood level or blood panel for me is just not— it's just really not an accurate look at potassium. It's just not. So really, and I've had actually, I've had a couple of clients with this, they've gone to the doctor and their blood levels are actually elevated potassium, like, oh, your potassium levels are elevated. Well, that actually is a bad thing because that means the potassium is in your blood and not in your cells. So this is like a loss, like your body's not using it in the right way. So potassium is one of those that helps with your blood pressure. It helps with helping things in and out of the cells. What I find most important for potassium is it is responsible for how sensitive your cells are to your thyroid hormone. And so a lot of my clients who are struggling with their thyroid, their potassium is super low. And I find a lot of times too, this can also affect your digestion. Deficiency on this one is far more common. I mean, honestly, I can probably count on one hand the number of clients I've had where their potassium levels are where they're supposed to be. Everybody is low. Like, it doesn't matter what everything else—

I'm deficient in potassium. And even if I add up all my food in Cronometer, I'm deficient in what I'm getting from the diet, for sure.

It's hard to get. It really is hard to get it off there. I mean, we're supposed to have like 4,500 milligrams a day. That's a lot. It's a lot, so it's not hard to be deficient in it. So this is another one like magnesium where I really like to do the supplement with the food.

Well, you kind of have to because you can only get 99 mg supplements, right? So yeah. What foods are the best foods?

My top 3 that I always recommend, especially for my thyroid clients, bananas, avocados, and coconut water. For me, those 3 are like top 3.

I just can't stomach coconut water.

I can't either. It's like you're expecting it to taste different than it does. I don't know what it is. So I find my clients, I'm like, throw it in a smoothie. We're covering it up with other things because I'm the same way. Fruit. Exactly. It's just too sweet. It is.

I drink a lot because I just like water.

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. No, I can't do it either. It kind of grosses me out. But if you can cover it up with other things or mix it with something else, then you can put that. But really, those 3, in my opinion, are the highest in magnesium or potassium. And you can put all 3 of those in a smoothie and you'd be getting a whole lot in just one serving. One.

Yeah. I also found that just a glass of orange juice has 200 milligrams of potassium. So yeah, my mom was deficient. I'm just like, just have a second glass of orange juice a day. Let's not, let's not overthink it.

Overthink it. Exactly. Make it easy. Totally. Yeah. Those fortified juices like that, for sure. It's a great way to get it. And this one I find, well, and, you know, hypothyroidism and constipation kind of go hand in hand. So there's a lot of links there, but The constipation part is pretty common with those who are deficient in potassium. Constipation, a lot of time fatigue. I've had clients who have irregular heartbeat situations going on, super tired and not able to tolerate exercise, unable to recover from extra exercise, muscle weakness. So a lot of those are, are signs of pretty substantial deficiency in potassium. And then if you know that you have a sluggish thyroid or you know that you're hypothyroidism, like, one of the best things you can do— and of course, you know about the selenium and the iodine and stuff, but potassium is one of those I feel like isn't talked about enough for the thyroid. It really does make a big difference when you can get those levels up to a good—

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I keep thinking about how can I get more potassium?

I know it's a tricky one.

I really just don't want to drink smoothies. I know I'm being sort of a pain in the butt, but I just— I love my egg and my vegetables and the stuff that I'm eating for breakfast. I just love that routine. And if I have to have a smoothie, that's replacing that.

Right. Totally. Just add some extra avocado on it. You'll get some with that.

But it's so fattening.

I know. You have to weigh it out.

You're digging it down to the actual problem. The problem is that I want to eat that happening half a gluten-free English muffin with my breakfast, and that's eaten up some calories and some stomach space. And if I'm adding in avocado and all that, I just know there's no more room.

That's so true. It's a tricky one. It is.

Yeah. Okay, so we're done with the big 4?

Yeah, the big 4. That's it.

Okay, awesome. So one of the minerals we need at lower doses is zinc, which is often recommended to support the immune system. Of course, if you have, yeah, Hashimoto's or autoimmunity, it's important. And then the form zinc carnosine in particular is, is recommended for gut health issues. So can you dig in a little on zinc, on its forms and how and why to supplement and of course its relationship with copper?

Yeah. Yeah. So zinc is another really important one. It helps again, it's kind of one of those along with sodium that helps with stomach acid, healthy levels of stomach acid. It's a precursor to quite a few digestive enzymes. And so it's important for proper formation, creation of digestive enzymes. And it has— zinc and copper have a really important relationship. And this is one that we look at on the HTMA is that relationship between zinc and copper because they can work with or against each other. And, and this is typically one that I look at is in terms of just kind of hormone. It's kind of the hormone ratio, the zinc to copper ratio. And so copper can stimulate the production of estrogen. And so when there's too much copper and not enough zinc, this starts to look like estrogen dominance. It can cause a real problem with the hormones. And, and then so that's when that— yeah, so when the zinc and the copper are off and a lot of times too, copper toxicity is something that I come— and you might see this a lot with your clients too, but copper toxicity is something that shows up a lot with my clients. And so often there's multiple issues here. A lot of times it is a zinc situation where like the zinc is just so low and it could be an immunity thing. It could just be that their, the diet is just off and they're just not getting enough zinc. But a lot of times too, it's just from exposure to actual copper itself. And so copper toxicity is, I would say, I don't know, I'd probably say 6, I'd probably say 7 outta 10 of my clients have copper toxicity from pipes or where were they getting it? Well, a lot of times, a lot of times it's from birth control, either birth control or an IUD, prolonged use. And sometimes it doesn't even have to be prolonged use. I think it's like parasites, right? Like sometimes you're just a hospitable host to a parasite and that's how it happens. And I think sometimes with copper it's the same thing. It's like, well, maybe your vital functions were a little bit down and then your body just harbored it, right? Because a lot of times I'll have clients where they're like, I wasn't even on it for that long. And sometimes it just happens that way. So I find— and sometimes it is copper pipes, and I have actually only had a couple of clients where that was the case. For most of my clients, it's like a birth control situation or like birth control or IUD.

Are you talking about the copper IUD in particular or from just other birth control?

From either, just because the stimulation of estrogen in the body is going to naturally mess with this copper to zinc ratio as it is. And birth control in and of itself depletes zinc in the body. It's a lot of minerals that are depleted by taking birth control. And so when you're depleting zinc,, then copper naturally is going to be copper. Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay. And so they're on different scales. And like, I have an example of my mineral analysis, and copper is on a scale on this one from 11 to 37, zinc from 142 to 20. So how do you work the ratio?

Yeah. So if you're looking at— let me see if I can pull up one of mine that I just did the other day because she had a really crazy ratio. And here's the other thing about the HTMA, and this is why, you know, it's always good to have somebody who knows how to read them because you could look at an HTMA at face value and you could read it like 25 different ways because you can look at it, you look at the, you know, the individual minerals like, oh, this one looks high, this one looks low, whatever. But then if you look at the ratios, it's like, oh well, like looking at the ratios changes how you interpret the whole thing. And so that's how it is with zinc to copper ratio because a lot of times it can look like, oh, my, my zinc and my copper aren't too far out of the reference range, but in comparison to each other, they're really off. So my client, let's see, I'm looking at hers. My client, we had a session the other day. Her copper was— it was low. It was a little low, but her zinc was so much further off than the copper. So now we've got this messed up zinc to copper ratio. So it's really just looking at them in relation to each other, not the individual zinc level and copper level. You really have to look at at the relationship. Yeah.

Like on my test, it does show at the bottom the ratios. And so zinc to copper is— the range is 4 to 20.

Mine was 15.

Yeah. So just a little bit elevated. Yeah.

Oh, you call that elevated?

A little bit. A little. It's like trending elevated. My ratios might be a little bit different. Do you know which lab did you use?

Mine is Doctor's Data.

Okay. I use Trace Elements. I think their ranges are a little bit different. Because basically over 12 is considered elevated in pairs. But I wouldn't be too alarmed at 15.

But yeah, yeah, I don't take any copper in any capacity.

Yeah. Also, I've had clients who— and it's not all the time, but some who— if you're on a vegan or vegetarian diet and you're eating foods that are higher in copper, your copper can be really elevated from eating predominantly plant-based food and not being balanced out with the zinc. So yeah, that can happen that way.

Yeah. But I also see the opposite, which is Occasionally I do see people who seem like they may be low on copper because I don't know if you're familiar with the whole conversion of dopamine to epinephrine. Norepinephrine requires vitamin C and copper, and I'll see people with high dopamine but then low epinephrine, norepinephrine. So that's a potential copper deficiency. So I'll see that a good bit. And people do tend to supplement with zinc, people who are aware of it's helping their immune system. So I mean, they might be taking 50mg of zinc a day and eventually you're going to end up with a copper deficiency.

Totally. Exactly. That's so true. Yeah. It's funny you say that. It was in my FDN group. I think somebody's having a conversation about that because throughout COVID, everybody was like downing vitamin D and zinc and all these things they're trying to boost their immune system. And we were talking about how we've seen a lot more clients than normal of having these really high zinc levels because they're just taking zinc like all day, every day, which is also going to be a little harsh on your stomach, by the way. So be careful with that.

Yeah.

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So did you mention anything about zinc carnosine?

Just in terms of like the which form to take it in? Yeah, I think I don't have strict stipulations on like what form that I give it in. A lot of times the form that I, that I have. And so when I do my mineral protocol for my clients, I use Vicon, which is a lab that basically customizes it to your HTMA. And most their form, most of the time it's picolinate, picolinate zinc picolinate. And that's usually the form that it's in. I think the form for zinc, to me, I'm not as sickler about the form on that one as much as other, like, especially like magnesium and potassium and those. So I'd say the form, I just don't find it as important. So I'd say, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.

The zinc carnosine is just something that's used often when there is H. pylori.

Yes, correct.

To help out with gut issues. That's why I wanted to bring it up.

But moving on.

So what other minerals do we need in smaller quantities and what role do they play in digestion?

Yes. So let's see. So if you get the HTMA, it's going to measure a few different, I guess, a couple. Well, it depends on the lab. Usually it's a couple dozen different, maybe anywhere from like 20 to 24 different minerals. So let's see, manganese is one. Manganese. And while it's not like, I don't want to say it's like directly influencing digestion, but it's important for mitochondria energy production in the cells. So I feel like just because of the mitochondria, the little the energy parts of the cells, and we need that for every part of the body and every function in the body. So I think manganese is one that can be really important, just for overall function of the body, but with thyroid function, digestion, just overall mineral balance. Manganese can be an important one. I find that chromium— and chromium, typically you hear that talked about in terms of just like blood sugar regulation, but I find that it does help. Again, it's kind of one of those, and it's it's all a chain reaction, right? They're all connected. And so it's hard to pick which one because they're all affecting so many things. With chromium, it's important for blood sugar regulation and insulin control, and your insulin and your cortisol are so related, and that's going to affect your adrenals. There's so many things tied to how chromium is working. And the other part of that, and linking a little bit more to digestion, is a lot of times when we're deficient in chromium, we have more sugar cravings. And carb cravings and it can lead to dysfunction that way just because we're eating things that we might not normally be eating just because those levels are low. Cobalt is another one. And cobalt is— there's, there's like mixed schools of thought about cobalt. Like some people, some experts say it should be as low as possible, but we do need some levels of cobalt. Like we have to— it's, it's, it's precursor to B12, which a lot of— we have to have that intrinsic factor in the gut to make the B12. So all of that is related to gut function and it's also related to liver function. Super low levels and super high levels of cobalt typically indicate low stomach acid, like a stomach acid issue. Super high levels are typically, in my experience, typically indicate some sort of like liver stress. And so when I see super high levels, actually my client the other day where I was just talking about her lab, her cobalt was really high. And we saw on some other labs her liver was like— there was definitely liver stress. She had H. pylori, so affecting her stomach acid. So there's a lot of signs. And the cobalt, the high cobalt was a red flag. Something's going on with your gut, something's going on with your liver with the cobalt. So cobalt is one of those that I like to look at. Let's see, I'm trying to think of a few more.

Well, we should talk about iron for sure, because that's the one that a lot of people are either both deficient in and you can get high iron.

Yes, exactly. Yeah. And I will say the HTMA is not it, like you should never use the HTMA alone for iron levels. Like you really need to get your blood ferritin levels checked if you really want an accurate look at what's going on with your iron levels. On an HTMA, when I'm looking at it, I never look at it in isolation. Like in isolation, it's not really gonna tell you a whole lot, but you can look at it in relation to some of the other minerals. But just in general, like getting your iron levels checked, definitely get your iron levels checked. But yeah, I mean, if you're, Serum levels are— you're getting your ferritin checked. Deficiency, right? Chronic Candida is common with low levels. Obviously your thyroid. We need, we need iron, good iron levels for your thyroid. And then too much, right? You talked about too much. Too much is a breeding ground for potential pathogens, right? We have too much iron, it can feed pathogens. So yeah, iron is one of those that like the healthy balance is really important.

Yeah, I've been struggling with trying to get enough iron kind of all my life.

Mm-hmm.

And you know, I've had this problem with fragile cracking nails for a long time. Mm-hmm. And then it suddenly got significantly worse. And I, I have been borderline anemic for most of my life and more iron deficient at the moment, but at various points also B12 deficient because I at one point had pernicious anemia. But you know, I take the methylcobalamin sublinguals. Mm-hmm. So B12's not an issue now.

Yeah.

But anyway, I'd gotten my ferritin numbers up significantly and when I switched from taking ferrous sulfate, which was like the cheap drugstore form to the iron bisglycinate, which has been much more effective and at, at much lower doses.

Yeah.

But anyway, the sudden decrease in the hardness of my nails made me wonder if I did have heavy metal toxicity or something, or, and my hair was falling out in buckets. So I got a hair, metal, and nail analysis.

Yeah.

And it was probably about 4 or 5 months ago at this point. And it showed, despite the fact that I was measuring high in blood, you know, my ferritin was, you know, very normal now.

I—

it still showed a deficiency. But you're saying maybe trust the blood more than the—

yeah, than the hair.

I would trust the blood. Yeah, for sure.

Okay. But then I was listening to this webinar and the doctor giving it was pointing out that iodine, iron, magnesium, and calcium all compete for absorption. And I was taking iron supplements at the same time I was taking my iodine. At the same time I was taking my iron supplements and my iodine came up fine on my hair. So I said, I'm going to stop taking the iron and I'm going to take my iron supplementation and put it on an empty stomach just with my vitamin C so it helps absorb it and away from the calcium, magnesium. And it seems like my nails have been getting better since then.

That's awesome.

But I'm wondering, yeah, I'm wondering what other minerals or things could be playing into the nails and the hair.

Yeah. Yeah, I think And yeah, I think it's kind of like you're saying. I think it's a lot of times it's what's competing with what in a sense of, of, cuz calcium obviously is a structural mineral, like I mentioned, like it's the bones, the teeth, that kind of thing. But I think a lot of times it has to do with these other minerals competing, right? And vitamins too, vitamins and minerals, because calcium competes with magnesium, it competes with phosphorus, it competes with a couple B vitamins, but then it works together with vitamin A and vitamin D and vitamin C, magnesium. So it's I think a lot of times it has to do with the combination of vitamins and minerals working together that can affect the hair and the nails. Because the hair thing, the nails thing isn't super common. And with— I don't know, just happens that way with the one organ. But the hair thing, the hair thing, I have quite a few women here. It's like their hair is thinning or it's coming out. And a lot of times it's those— a lot of times it's those thyroid minerals, right? And that's kind of one of the signs of a thyroid ism, right? So we're looking at selenium and iodine and iron, like we said, and potassium is another one. Like all of those thyroid minerals.

Maybe I need to dig in on the potassium because I've checked all the others. The other ones are in line.

Add some more bananas. Maybe you can add more bananas into your life without the fat of the avocado.

Okay, I'll work on the bananas. I'll take— how about plantain chips?

There you go. You can try those.

Don't want to eat any more bananas. I know I'm really a pain when it comes to diet. If my clients were as bad as I am, they'd never get better.

That's hilarious.

Okay, so yeah, I was also low on phosphorus and chromium in my thing and have now twice been low on chromium on different tests. So I've just finally sucked it up started supplementing with chromium.

Yeah.

Because if that's bringing down my blood sugar, awesome. Like that's a, that's nothing but positive.

Totally. Totally. Yeah, for sure.

But I did, I did read, I think on the analysis that phosphorus is, it's not good to measure phosphorus in your hair, that that's not the best way.

Yeah. Not the best way. Yeah. I mean, I'd say for phosphorus, I, I never, it's one of those I don't ever really look at in isolation. Like I'll look at it in relation to calcium. Like the calcium phosphorus ratio is like your nervous system ratio, kind of how your nervous system is functioning. But yeah, I'd say looking at it in isolation is not, yeah, I wouldn't say it's too accurate.

Yeah. What's the chemical signal symbol for phosphorus? It's P. Okay. Yeah. So I see CaP 9.52, 1 to 12 is the range.

Oh yes. Right in the middle.

Okay, good. Any other minerals that you wanna mention?

I think we hit the heavy hitters.

Okay, well, should we talk about iodine for a sec? Okay. Yeah, yeah, let's talk about iodine.

Yeah, iodine is a good one. This is one that I look at a lot because I work with a lot of women who have different thyroidisms and that kind of thing. And iodine, of course, is really important for the thyroid. And we need iodine and selenium are the two that we look at the most. Well, yeah, potassium, like I mentioned before, but iodine and selenium are the ones we look at the most in terms of thyroid function. But yeah, iodine. Now, I will also say about iodine, while I do— this is the, the, the hair tissue mineral analysis is not the best way to look at iodine either because it's excreted in the urine and not in the tissues. So you really want to get an accurate look. You want an accurate look at iodine, you want to get a urine test. Now, iodine, there's a lot of controversy around iodine and giving people iodine protocol or not to give people iodine protocol because there is such thing as too much. Like, such things, and especially if you have a thyroidism, right?

Hashimoto's in particular, you don't want to overdo the iodine.

Yeah, exactly. You don't want to overdo it. So I always lead with caution with the iodine. If I'm going to recommend things, I very rarely ever do an actual iodine protocol where we're like iodine loading the body with like liquid iodine. Typically it's like take a kelp supplement. If you take a kelp supplement, it's lower doses and it's safer that way, especially again, especially if it's Hashimoto's. But it's— I just find it safer that way. So we're not overloading the body.

Yeah, I usually stick to the RDA. Yeah, no more. And then think about what's in your food too.

And then exactly, exactly. Because if you're already eating sea vegetables and sea products, then yeah, I mean, you're already getting some, right?

And then also people are often taking multis, which have the 150— is it micrograms or milligrams?

The RDA. Yeah. And that's why if I really suspect a really really bad deficiency, then let's do a different test. Like, I'm not going to look at the HTMA. Like, let's do the urine test to make sure. Otherwise, if it's like, oh, you know, let's support just basic levels because you can look at potassium, copper, selenium. You can also look at mercury and look at certain ratios of those and where those numbers, numbers are to get an idea of if your iodine is deficient or not. And you can look at— and calcium. I don't know if I mentioned calcium, but if you look at where those minerals are, you can get an idea if there's deficiency in iodine. And so if those are red flags there, I'm looking at your lithium and potassium, calcium, all those, then yeah, let's do a urine test to see where your iodine levels are. But if I'm not getting a bunch of red flags, then I'm not going to go overboard. Let's do just like the normal levels that you would in like a multivitamin or whatever, right?

Right.

Yeah.

And I looked up, it's micrograms, 100 micrograms, right? Yeah. Okay. So since we're talking about minerals for gut health, I wanted to ask about two of the big supplements that are often recommended for healing the gut lining, collagen and L-glutamine. Do you use those in your practice? And if so, in what situations and dosages?

Yeah, I do. I do. Recently, at least in my FDN group, there's been discussions on the L-glutamine, like to use L-glutamine, to not use L-glutamine. For me, well, it depends on the person, like how much gut lining healing that we're doing. I really find that collagen can be a really good support for that. So I do recommend collagen for most, just kind of as like a maintenance thing, like ongoing. I think it's something that's okay to take every day, taking it in a good quality form. Like, I think it was a type 1 and 3 are supposed to be the best ones to help with the gut. So I do use those. The L-glutamine, I typically don't use it in isolation. The L-glutamine though, like, if I use L-glutamine, it's in conjunction with other things that are helping with the gut lining. So there's the cat's claw and there's like a bunch of botanicals mixed in with—

Yeah, like aloe vera and marshmallow and DGL and all that, right? Yeah. Like GI benefits or GI— I think it's GI. Is it response?

Yeah. And there's the mucosa.

Omega mucosa.

Yeah. Mega mucosa. Yeah.

Okay. Do you use butyrate at all in your practice? I ask because I just launched a supplement and I'm kind of obsessed with this.

I love that. I do. Yeah. I mean, that's one of those I've I've included here recently with some clients. So yeah, I have been looking at that. Yeah, I love that. That's awesome.

Okay, let me see if I've asked you everything. Oh, do you? Yeah, the heavy metals. So I did my analysis to look also for heavy metals, not just for the minerals. And it showed me it's kind of high on uranium and silver. And I'm like, what? To do about that?

You know, it's funny about the— now, the one that I run doesn't measure silver, so that's not one that shows up on mine. But uranium is one. It's so funny.

I know. I'm like, where the heck am I getting that? Is it maybe in my shampoo? I'm hoping that's where it's coming from, like, not from inside my body.

Now, most of the time, and this has been true for two of my clients, the other one, it was still a mystery. Like, I still can't figure out where it came from. For two of my clients, It was well water and that was where it was coming from. So typically you're finding uranium in granite rock, right? So if you're drinking well water, if you're, if you're eating vegetables grown in a place with high granite rock, you're not washing them, then that could be it. But I'd still find that a couple of my clients, it's been a mystery, like, where's the uranium coming? Like, you're not working in a mine anywhere. Like, you're not working with—

I know.

And I'm, I'm using the Zero water filters. We're changing them every 2 weeks.

Oh, yeah.

Nothing getting in that water. No, it is not my water.

That's hilarious.

Yeah.

And then I have, again, no idea unless the silver's coming from my jewelry, which I suppose it could be leaching into my body from my jewelry because I wear silver jewelry all the time.

Yeah. It's possible.

It's possible.

Yeah. Yeah. The heavy metals are— it's funny. So I would say mercury and aluminum are probably the ones that show up the most often. And honestly, in some levels it's like it's going to show up. Like, I don't know if I've yet to have a test that aluminum doesn't show up at least a little bit. Now, if it's above a certain range, it's like, okay, let's talk about how we can reduce your exposure to aluminum. Mercury and aluminum are probably the ones that show up the most often. And then there's all these— I don't know, I feel like they're obscure. I mean, I guess they're not because we've most of them are ones we've heard of, but kind of some more obscure elements and heavy metals that come up, like bismuth and titanium and strontium, like these random minerals. And a lot of times, well, most of the time, it's coming from your makeup and from your personal care products. And so I have my clients who have these random, like, what's the bismuth from? I'm like, oh, you know, bismuth is an ingredient in a lot of concealers and foundations and of. So it's the personal care products and the cosmetics and all the things that we a lot of times really go overlooked in terms of how it's affecting our health. Your body, your skin is absorbing all of that.

Yeah. Well, who knows? Maybe that's where I'm getting my uranium. Maybe. Maybe so.

Maybe so.

But they were both in the yellow, so I don't— I'm not like, you know, I'm not sweating it too much.

Yeah.

Back to aluminum, though. I did. Catch high aluminum levels, I think, at both of my parents and sent them off to drink 5 liters of Fiji water, a liter a day, because it has high levels of silica, silica, which chelates aluminum. And it's, of course, high aluminum being a risk for Alzheimer's. Yes. And it successfully brought the levels down.

No way. That's amazing.

I love that.

That's awesome. I don't drink Fiji water all day because it's expensive.

Of it.

Yeah, it's pricey, but I do keep it by the side of my bed, and that's how I refill my nightly water bottle. Just because there are so many sources of aluminum, they keep coming back in with your aluminum foil and your aluminum. True. My wok is made of aluminum, and various people use pans with aluminum and such.

Right, right. It's true. Yeah, I love that. Such a good remedy.

Yeah, I know there are some multis that have silica in them too, though, and you can just buy silica pills as well.

Yeah, yeah. It's easier to drink the water, though.

I know. It's more fun. Exactly.

I was going to say, it doesn't—

I feel very fancy.

Exactly. You feel all bougie drinking your Fiji water, right?

Totally. My kids are all just like, oh, can I have some? Like, they think it's a super special thing. And I'm like, sorry, that's Mom's Fiji water.

Fiji water. That's awesome.

Okay, so tell me where folks can find you.

You can find me on Instagram. I'm @thehopedraza on Instagram. And then you can visit my website. It's hopefulandwholesome.com with everything you need to know about what I do and what I offer.

Okay, awesome. And I will include links for that in the show notes. Any parting thoughts?

Yeah, you know, I am a proponent of the HTMAs. So I'll just say that even if, if you're not doing like a full panel of functional labs, HTMA really, and I'm not getting paid to say this cuz I don't get paid by the lab, so I'm saying this just from just from my heart here, HTMA really is the cheapest functional lab you can do to give you some of the most helpful data. I mean, it's like the one I run is like $50 and it— Oh, wow. Yeah, that is cheap. It is super cheap. And it does all of this, like all of the heavy metals and the heavy hitters, all the big minerals. And it gives so much data. And so if you're looking for a simple way to start making meaningful changes and wondering just overall function in the body, I really feel like the HTMA is the best way to go and the easiest. And it's just hair. You don't have to poop in anything. You don't have to pee on anything. It's just hair. So I find it's pretty simple and inexpensive.

Yeah, I, I will see if I can add that to my Rupa Health Lab Store.

Yeah.

And that way people can find it there off of my website. But in any case, I definitely— I do have the one on, on there, the Hair Elements by Doctor's Data on there right now, which isn't $50, but it's like $139 or something.

Oh, yeah, it's not too bad. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's a cheap way to know what's going on in your body compared to all the other functional medicine tests. Totally.

Yeah, that's a bargain.

Exactly. Exactly.

Okay, well, this was a fun conversation and I learned a lot because we actually haven't talked about minerals at all before on the podcast. So this is great. Thank you so much.

Thanks so much for having me, Lindsey.

If you're interested in doing hair mineral testing, you can find Hair Elements by Doctor's Data for $124 in my Rupa Health Lab Store, linked in the show notes or off of my website, HighDesertHealthCoaching.com, under Gut Health and Lab Testing. Of course, this is in the US only. I couldn't add the trace elements test to my lab store, and it doesn't look like they provide direct-to-consumer tests, but I'm sure you could get it through Hope if you work with her. If you'd like to support the podcast, you can buy supplements at a discount from my FullScript Dispensary Order tests at a discount from my Rupa Health Lab store, or use my affiliate links to eVitamins, Bulk Supplements, or Amazon. If you'd like to connect with me online, you can follow my High Desert Health Facebook page, join my Gut Healing Facebook group, or join my newsletter list at highdeserthealthcoaching.com, as well as Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, and Pinterest. Links for all those are in the show notes.

Thanks for joining me today, and here's wishing you all the perfect stool.