#5 EPISODE OF 2025: How to Make Fitness Actually Work for Busy Moms — with LINDSEY BOMGREN

Giving women permission for time. And time is the hardest thing. We live in this microwave society. No one wants a slow cooker. And to get your strength back, to get your mentality back, to get your screen back, to get any of that, it takes time.

You're listening to the Active mom podcast with host Dr. Carrie Pagliano. I'm a mom physical therapist and your go to guide for staying active with pelvic health issues in pregnancy, postpartum, perimenopause, and beyond. Whether you're a fellow mom, physical therapist or women's health professional, join me where I'll share expert insights, real life stories and the latest research to help you approach running, CrossFit, yoga, Pilates hit or whatever activity you love with confidence and evidence, informed guidance. Let's start the show. All right, welcome back to the Active Mom Podcast. Our next guest. I kind of found in a very interesting way a lot of Facebook groups and things that I'm on. People are like, you know, looking for content and her name kept coming up and I think we've kind of met each other in other circles via other people. And finally I was like, you know what the circles, it's time for them to collide and have Lindsay on the podcast. So Lindsay Baumgren, who is known as Nourish move love on Instagram, welcome to the show.

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. As you said, I've been like, you know, admiring you from afar for a while and you've been included in several of our of our content that we've published about postpartum content and public for health. So I've been admiring you from afar. So it's so fun to get to chat with you in person.

Yeah, no, and I, I get your, your all your emails and stuff and con and we'll talk about this in a little bit, like how much stuff that you put out and so on. But how did you get into like first of all training, like postpartum space? Like where, where did that come from?

Yeah, so basically it was just kind of the evolution of me. I started NourishMove Love 10 years ago, so pre babies in 2015 and so I hadn't had any kids yet. Loved health and fitness, was an athlete my whole life. Played college volleyball, was done with that, got into marathon training, got stress fractures in my feet, got really into strength training, did the whole fitness competition scene for a little bit and then needed to find balance. I was working, I was doing medical sales full time, so I was working, loved health and fitness And I just found my passion in the group fitness studio. I loved being in the group fitness studio. Everyone showed up, they had a good time. Like, no one was on their phone. Everyone was there to get better. I loved the energy, I love the music. I loved the group fitness studio. And I was like, I want to be that girl on the stage too. Teaching classes, that sounds like my dream job. And so kind of pursued that. But that's not a career. It's not a career that supports a family. You get paid 30 bucks a class because you love fitness, but it's not a career. And it's like, you know, it's not sustainable. You can only teach so many classes a week. And so I was like, how do I turn this into a career? And really started looking at the online space and I wanted to give away all my content for free. And so when I was chatting with friends, I grew up in rural Minnesota, so. And when I was chatting with my friends, like, well, we don't have, you know, like the closest thing is a snap fitness and it's, you know, and so they were like, what do you mean, take fitness classes and stuff? And I was like, what if I started filming myself and sending it to my friends and, like, they could do the classes, you know, have access to them wherever. It's kind of like the thought process of how it was all born. And I was like, yeah, so what year is this? So 2015. I saw all my gosh is when I started. So it was like kind of. It was before, you know, being an influencer or content creator was really like a thing even, you know, people were posting and. But I saw all these recipe bloggers and I was like, they had old school blogs, like, where you type. Like, I went over to Grandma's tomato and we made this recipe, you know, like the original blogging. And I was like, how are they making money just sharing free recipes? Because I want to do that for fitness. I just want to share free workouts. So I basically looked at the food blogger model and said, I'm going to do that for fitness. Which was not the smartest because it took me a lot of leg time to make this bad boy work. Because everybody eats. Not everybody works out. At the time, recipe bloggers were like, whipping out their phone and taking a picture and posting it. And like, I have to film a workout video in order to work. It's more work. So not the smartest business idea probably, but I was like, I just want to give away free workouts for everybody. Like food bloggers are, but do it for fitness. So that was kind of the game plan and that's what I set out to do in 2015. Did a bunch of odd jobs, personal, all the things on the side to make this work. Bunch of freelancing. But yeah, that's kind of how it was born. And then I'm glad I've stuck it out and 10 years. Fortunately, Covid was very generous to my volume for at home workouts went up. So I've just really grinded it out, stuck it out. Tons of consistent content, a lot of odd jobs along the way. And now I'm very fortunate. I have a team supporting me and helping me. But we're still doing what I set out to do, which is film free workout content.

Isn't that crazy? And that's the thing, like you look in the rear view and everybody's like, wow, she, she was so forward thinking for her time, right? And you're like, do you know what was involved in that?

Like, no, I grinded it out. I remember teaching upwards and I say this all the time. My first employee, Rachel, who is still with me, she's been amazing sidekick, but I remember teaching upwards of like 14 classes a week so I could pay her. Like I was teaching in person classes so I could pay her.

Right. I think that's the thing that people don't realize is like, especially with, with small business, there's so much hustle behind it. And you were doing that before you had kids. So like at what point and, and you said your kids are 8, 5 and 3. Did I get it right?

Just about to turn. Yep. Okay, got it.

Okay. So what makes somebody who hasn't have any kids yet be like, I've already got the hustle, Let me go add some kids to it and see what happens.

It was just kind of like the seasons of life. So basically what happened is I, in 2015, I got married and I was like, I got health insurance with a husband, so I quit my job and I'm jumping on your health insurance. And that's when I decided to kind of launch into it. And of course I was doing a bunch of odd jobs on the side, but basically, yeah, I was. It was kind of my life cycle. So for two years, 2015 to 2017, I was like grinding it out. Trying to start this business was not replacing my income like I thought I would. And. But it was like the season of life and it was. The next thing was to have kids. And so we had had our first son and like I said, I Didn't really film any pregnancy or prenatal content during my. Yeah, because I wanted to experience it myself. I'm a new mom. I have no idea what working out. Right? Like, yeah, I was taking like, I was getting certified. I took like prenatal yoga and I was getting prenatal certifications. I went through the, a couple certification courses just because I was like, I want to educate myself on this. But I didn't want to film a ton of content. And in fact, I saw it as like a downside. Honestly, I thought becoming pregnant was like a major downside to my business because I was like, how am I going to film these workouts? You know, there's this pressure to be a fitness influencer who has six pack abs and looks a certain way. And like, no one wants to work out with a pregnant woman if they're not pregnant. They're going to think my workouts are easy or whatever. So some of my hardest workouts are filmed during my first pregnancy. Like, because I was gung ho on proving to people that like my workouts were still just as hard. Forget that I'm pregnant. You can still work out with me. Because my audience at the time wasn't moms. It was just kind of general public. And so my first pregnancy, it was like trying to hide my pregnancy as long as I could, filming these hit workouts, trying to. And then, you know, I went through it. And honestly, that's what really opened my eyes and, and actually helped my business was I was personally searching for pregnancy workouts that challenged me and I couldn't find any. It was all, don't get your heart rate above 130, lift your leg, don't lift heavy weights. And I was like, what about me? I'm an athlete. I've been training before pregnancy. I want to maintain throughout pregnancy. I still want to challenge myself. I don't feel broken. I have no limitations. I was very fortunate in my pregnancy, had no limitations. And so I couldn't find anything. And I was like, there needs to be more workout content for women that are pregnant that want to be challenged. And that I saw as a huge gateway opportunity for my business. And it has been a significant opportunity. And then on the flip side of that, postpartum, first time ever being postpartum, I had no idea what diastasis recti was. No one talked to me about this and I was experiencing it myself. Trying to find free online content. Couldn't find anything. I didn't even know pelvic floor physical therapy was a thing until My second baby, I didn't even know that was a thing until my second baby. Like, no one told me. It was like, I had no idea.

I'm not on TikTok yet.

There was no, no one was on the social media telling me that this is the thing. So it was really just all gateways, my life cycle that really led to this. And I was like, there's no online content for women postpartum. Like, how am I supposed to reenter working out what's safe for me, what's not safe for me? When can I start running again? When can I start jumping again?

And you found nothing?

I could find. I found nothing. So I was like, hello, where is this content? And I just thought it was opportunity for my business and my whole goal because, you know, not everyone had. Again, I'm from rural Minnesota. Not everyone has access to this. Finding a pelvic floor physical therapist in Minnesota is so still challenging. There's not a ton of them Y. And so I was gung ho and I set out and I found a pelvic floor physical therapist after my second baby because I had experienced a four finger diet. I had a four finger gap after my second pregnancy. And that's when I was like, okay, I think something is wrong here. I really should get help.

Yeah.

And honestly, I sought out pelvic floor physical therapy because I had really bad hemorrhoids. Really bad hemorrhoids. After my.

The worst. Yep.

And I found a physical therapist here in Minnesota and she was willing to help me. She was willing to film some content with me. And I was like, this is amazing. This is going to change women's lives because it's just not available. And it is to this day. Our most popular video is filmed on my iPhone 8 best diastasis recti exercises. I don't know, it's got millions of views on YouTube, but it's the most. Our most popular content. And it was literally me at like six weeks postpartum filming how I need a pelvic floor physical therapist to heal my core.

Oh, my gosh. Well, your story, and I think it.

Proves that there's just a need, there was a lack for that content.

Yeah. Well, it's just your story is such a parallel to just so many things that were going on at that time period that I think back, like, I mean, even. And this is the part that I've just been so focused on lately is just understanding the history is like, first of all, we didn't have women necessarily being accepted in gyms and Running, you know, pregnant or things like that. And then if they did, they kept to their communities. And then slowly it was like, all right, well, okay, we can talk about it now. It's kind of okay. But then we don't have, like, who do we go to? And that's actually how I got into kind of working a lot with athletes was. I'm like, all right, I'm starting to see more of them. And in pregnancy, postpartum, that they're already doing this stuff, and I don't, you know, if I tell them to just do this gentle stuff, which is what we were taught, like, they're basically gonna give me the middle finger, and I'm never gonna see him again. And so I was like, all right, I gotta figure something out here. And then obviously, now the research is kind of coming up behind us. So it's. It's really been interesting to watch, you know, women wanting to be more active and not finding resources, us as providers being like, okay, well, there's nothing in the research, so we're gonna, you know, do the best we can with what we know and try and help that person in front of us.

And.

And now see the research start to come up behind. It's. It's really cool to kind of see that that exactly was your experience. And in kudos to you for not, like, on one hand, I'm like, I can't believe that being pregnant you saw is like a deficit. But I can totally get it in that time period where, you know, I don't want some pregnant lady teaching me things, you know, what does she know? But also, at the same time, good on you for not trying to make a pregnancy video while you're pregnant. There's nothing right now that gets my goat more than these moms that are, like, newly pregnant and they don't know what the frick they're doing. And they're like, all of a sudden, they've got a new video, and they're doing their postpartum video, and they haven't even had their baby yet. I'm like, what are you doing?

Yeah. And that was really my goal, like you said. I was like, I have no idea. So I wanted to experience it. And then I really experienced it with my second. And then we filmed our prenatal and postpartum programs with my third because I felt like, okay, I am fully equipped now. I worked with two different pelvic floor physical therapists. I've gone through this. I know what to expect.

You got it now?

I know. Yeah. And so it was just. Yeah, for me it was what felt best. And it's like, it was, it's such a learning curve. It's still. Every pregnancy was different. I experienced. Oh, yeah, one and not with the, you know. Yeah, every pregnancy, it's just different. So.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I'm assuming you didn't have the third for, for production purposes. Right. So you're going to have the third anyway. Right.

You know what my husband will still say to this day that he's like, I think this was a business decision. And I'm like, it was not, but it was good for business, I bet.

Oh my gosh, that's funny that he says that. So, so for you, as you're kind of thinking about how you've figured out kind of what, what people are, are asking for and what they're going to benefit from and kind of reflecting back on the stuff that you couldn't find. What are the, what are the, you know, maybe the, the three or four things that you find. Let's talk about pregnancy first. Like, what are moms looking for? Especially those first time moms that are like, I don't know what the heck I'm doing and I'm just going to do a Google search and see what comes up. Like, what, what do you find they're looking for.

Yeah. And I think it's just, it's like anything nowadays, it's so confusing. I think you're seeing on social media now, like the reels going around. Like, should I drink warm water, cold water, tap water, like water out of a plastic. Like, so confusing. What water is good for me? And I think it's even amplified.

Yeah.

In pregnancy and postpartum, because especially you're going into this and we often joke, me and my team joke that we're the first people to find or we are the first to know when someone's pregnant outside of their husband. Like they literally DM us.

Oh, I usually am too.

Yeah. I'm like, I'm pregnant. What do I do? And I'm like, okay, you're like four weeks pregnant. No need to change anything. And they're like, I haven't even told my husband yet, but I'm pregnant. And like, how do I work out?

Oh my God.

The same DMs are coming in from a woman who's in her third trimester. Like, okay, I'm in my third trimester, about to have this baby. When can I start working out again? Postpartum. And it's like just getting ahead of ourselves and it's really hard, like you said to like, it's so hard to blanket advice for. I get DMS all the time. Like, I have diastasis rect. I wish I do. And I'm like, okay, well, is it your first, your second, your third?

Like, there's so many questions, right?

Yeah, I, like, I can't, like, you need to be like, I'm not a but and I'm not evaluating you, but there's just so many variables that go into every decision. Is it, you know, do you have any limitations? Are you experiencing sciatica spd? Like, there's just so much. So it's really hard to give advice and I think it's just really confusing for women and it's so murky. And so I think they're just looking for. And that's why we created a first trimester, a second trimester, and a third trimester. And it was like my experiences. And I'm really glad that I'm pregnant in all of them. Like, of course I can still create pregnancy workouts now, but it's just different. It is like, I even forget what it's like to have that heavy heaviness in all the things. And so I'm so glad I filmed them when I'm pregnant. They're just relatable. And so I think people are just looking for like that relatability. Someone else is telling me they're tired and it's okay to not work out in the first trimester because you're exhausted and you're growing a human. So just like the relatability. But it's just, it's still so overwhelming and it's hard to give blanket advice as you know. But our like life cycle is women either find us because they get pregnant and they start searching pregnancy workouts.

Yep.

Or it's postpartum and you realize how much of a luxury it is to go to the gym and to take group fitness classes. If you are an active gym goer, it's now a luxury to go to the gym because you have a human to care for and your time's crunched whether you're a working mom or a stay at home mom. And so they just need at home resources. And that's really what we step in as women find us postpartum and they're like, okay, I need to start doing something for myself again. And I'll always say fitness has always been more for my mental health than my physical health, especially as a mom.

Yeah, no, I think so too. And it's so Interesting again, how people come to exercise, and sometimes pregnancy is the thing that brings them to it. And they're like, okay, well, I'm pregnant now. I suppose I should workout. And that's a whole different conversation and approach than, say, somebody like yourself, where you're like, no, I've done marathons. I'm very active. I'm pregnant. How do I, you know, know what level of activity I can keep up with? And again, 2015, we didn't.

No. And we. It's like. And the thing is, is the research is still changing. When I filmed my first diastasis recti content with a pelvic floor physical therapist, what was recommended then is different from now? It was like, you know, no coning or doing. Now it's like, so soft. Coning is great. We want to avoid the heart, you know? So it was like, even stuff has changed in the last. How many. It's continually changing.

So let's talk about that, because I feel like, okay, you've mentioned two things, diastasis and coning and doming. And I feel like they've become like they were nothing, and then it became this big thing. And I call them the gateway drugs to actually getting care. Because typically, anybody that comes to see me about diastasis recti. My joke is that 95% of Northern Virginia thinks that they have diastasis, and they don't. But somewhere in that evaluation, we're talking, and they happen to just happen to mention that they have leakage or they happen to mention their prolapse symptoms. And I'm like, great, I'm glad you came. Because of diastasis. No, you don't have it. I'm Oprah. You can have abs. You can have abs. Like, you can do all these things now. But how about we talk about your leakage? Like, why is it that diastasis will not die? And also, having navigated it myself, I mean, yours is probably very similar. Like, it's my party trick. I can make it pop up. I can make it do whatever. Like, it's my party drink. But why won't it die?

It is funny because when I'm laying out, my kids will always stick their fingers. They'll be like, you have a hole.

Like, yes, and you made it. Thank you. They always stick their elbow in it, too. And the dog. The dog does it, too.

And I think the biggest misconception there is that it's all about this, like, gap. Like, I have this gap. How am I ever going to get rid of this gap? And it's like, one. You don't have to get rid of it to. It's not even about the gap. It's about the tension you can generate across the gap. And I think that those are, like, that's the one thing I want all women to know. Forget the gap. How much tension can you generate across the gap? Like, that's what we should be focusing on here. And like you said, it's always like, there's always an underlying issue. For me, it was, you know, diastasis, but it was really like, I need to be at a public floor physical therapist for my hemorrhoids because I can't handle movement without wanting to die.

Right?

And so, like, learning just how to, like, push my ribcage out versus down and control my diaphragm. And actually what's happening, happening in here in my internal pressure system was, like, so important for me. And because there's the one thing, and I'm still searching for this, Carrie. So if you can help me out.

Okay.

Every fitness instructor, including myself, the number one thing we say during workouts, engage your core. Your core should be activated right now while you're doing this bicep curl. Engage your core.

How?

What does that mean, like, to someone like. And I have, you know, for me, the biggest cue, and I think this is the thing, is everybody has to find the cue that works for them. The cue that works for me to make that mind muscle connection of engage my core is pull my hip bones together, and that is how I can activate my core. Pull your hip bones together. Like, no matter whether I'm laying standing, whatever it is, for me, it's hip bones together, and I can feel that activation happen. But I think it's so different for everybody. And you have to.

It is. And. But it. This is where, you know, instead of.

Saying, engage your core, what should I say?

Well, you're talking to a pt. The answer is, it depends. But. No, but here's the. Here's the thing, though, is that the first point is, you know, the fact that I only started learning about pressure management, probably, like the early 2010s, is the fact that it's quickly getting out to coaches and trainers and that sort of thing. Number one, is amazing. Number two, this is where I get in trouble with other pelvic floor pts. And I can say this now, and I couldn't necessarily say this. When I was head of our association, I was like, I don't think everybody needs to see a pelvic floor pt. And this is why, because I think Even people that have asymptomatic and even just with some symptoms. I think I have this rule of thirds. A third of the people, it really doesn't matter what the cue is, and they're going to be fine. I think a third of people that cue engage your core, whatever the hell that means to them, they're going to translate it, so it's going to be what you wanted. And then there's a third of people that. That Q is not going to translate and it's not going to make things better or it's going to make things worse. And that's where we come in. And I do think that's the benefit of group exercise. And one of the first things that I talk to my patients is, okay, tell me what you were doing before this. Is this something that you want to do afterwards? Now, let's see. And I'm really lucky. I have real time ultrasound imaging here so I can have somebody. I'm like, okay, what are you taught in class? What's the cue? And then they show me what they do with that cue. And then we can actually see literally in black and white. They don't have to take my word for it is what's happening when you respond to that cue, because you can get something completely different. And that's why I was like, it kind of depends, but it kind of. Sometimes it matters and sometimes not. So I think the one thing that I think the one cue that drives me bananas. And it's a cue that I think we were given early on. And then once I got imaging, I'm like, ooh, that's not it at all. When people cue that. When you're using deep abdominals, you should. If you put your hands inside your. Your pelvis bones or right in the front of your abs, if you feel your abs pop into your finger, that. That's transverses. And that couldn't be further from the truth. That's internal oblique. When you engage transverses, you don't feel a damn thing on the outside. Like you can put your hands there, don't feel anything. And I think that's the subtlety. But again, how many people does that actually matter? I think if you're having pressure management issues where pushing out is not a good thing and it might increase symptoms of prolapse or leakage. Yeah, those are the people that we're going to need to get on top of. But, you know, and that's where, again, we just don't have data. But anecdotally, what I can tell you is if somebody's coming in, they're having back pain or worsening symptoms when they're going to class or when they're responding to these certain cues, that's the first thing I'm going to look at, is be like, all right, that cue doesn't work for you when you're in that class or when you're, you know, taking, you know, Lindsay's class online or something like that. When she says, this, this is what you're going to do instead. And then. Then they're good. I'm like, this is just a framework, an overlay that's individual to you. Now you can go ahead and do the class. It's all good. It's just for you, we need to do things a little bit different because how your brain's interpreting that cue isn't the way that it was intended, but. No, the engager core. I. I wish I had a day. Maybe not a day, but, like, I wish I had a few hours where I didn't know anything about the body, because I can't answer that, like, without it being a biased answer. Like, I really don't. I. I don't know. Like, I know 26 years, I can't do it unbiased, like. But no, it drives me nuts when people, like, engage your pelvic floor, and I'm like, how do people know what that is?

What does that mean?

Like, how did you figure out? It's. It's kind of like when you're in childbirth, they're like, plus, you're like, well, I am. They're like, no, you're not. You're like, how am I supposed to know what's happening?

Yeah. And it's funny for. Because the first, like, couple visits I had, the first time I ever went and saw a pelvic floor physical therapist, that's, you know, like, engagement. And for me, she was like, it's just, what the hell? And that's when I learned, like, how glute dominant I am. And that's probably, you know, years of fitness trait, but how glute dominant I am. Anytime you tell me, engage my core. Engagement. It's just me.

It's glutes. Yeah. Yeah. And you're. No. And again, like, I think that goes back to everybody's background and experience. Like, work. Did you. It's the same thing with breast strategies. Like, when you're telling people, you know, oh, what's the one that comes out all the time? Exhale on effort. And I don't know where it became on effort, I always learned it as before, and I have the ultrasound imaging to kind of back me up. Whereas, like, if you have that person, like, if you don't have imaging and they're exhaling and let's say they're the least bit delayed. And this can happen a lot in pregnancy because that. That engagement or that tension takes a while to. I joke around that the belly changes zip codes. You want to make sure that that's on before you go. So if you do your exhalation and drawing in before the effort, then you can be sure that by the time you get to the hardest part of the effort, it's on and ready to go. But if you're delayed and you do exhale on effort, you don't know if that timing is going to match up. And. But I hear that one all the time. And they're like, yeah, it's exhale on effort. And I'm like. Or is it. I'm like, just in case, since you don't have the fancy imaging machine, maybe maybe, like, plan ahead. I don't know. I mean, is that one that you've heard, too?

You know, it's funny because I always say. I always just go. So I always say you should be exhaling during the hardest portion of the movement. So that's how I cue it is like, you should always be exhaling during the hardest portion of the movement. But. But thinking about that, like, it should almost like, you're right. It should be a little bit before getting ready to do the hardest part of the movement. So, like, when I'm at the bottom of the squat, like, as I. Before I even come out of that hole, I should be exhaling.

But that's the. I was gonna say, but that's the other one. And it depends though, too, because if you're not symptomatic, there's no reason to dive into that. And that's where I'm like, you know, there's only. And it's nuanced when these little cues matter. But letting people know that, hey, if. If this cue that I'm saying doesn't make sense to you, this might be. Or it's not giving you the desired result, or you're having symptoms that would be an opportunity to refer out or something like that. Because if I have somebody, I mean, like, if you're doing squats and, you know, you're exhaling on the effort and you're totally fine, great, that's fine. But if you're. You're leaking or you're Noticing pressure or something like that. Okay, maybe we want to try a different strategy. And it's so funny because I do. I feel like Oprah. And I'm like, what if we did it sooner? You get squats and like, all of a sudden, like, it's magic. And I feel really cool, but I'm like, no, it really, really wasn't that hard.

Yeah. And the other thing I think is just like, we're. We're just taught so much to, like, how to control our pelvic floor, how to contract, and, like, never talk about, like, lengthening or taking the muscle through that full range of motion. So I feel like that's something I try to, like, be cognizant of at the end, especially during a cooldown, is like telling women to actually, like, like release. Like, think about actually breathing out of your.

Yeah.

Right now.

But some people don't even know what that is because they never have experienced it. Like, I. I joke because I've lived in DC 20 some odd years, so I feel like I can say that. I mean, we're a little tight ass around here, especially lately. No, it's. It's one of those things that, like, they don't know what lengthen is because they've never been there. So I think that's another context too. Like, I would be really curious. I. I was just talking to a researcher, and I come up with ideas all the time, and I'm like, I'm gonna make work for you guys. I'm like, that would be a really cool study to do with, like, a group like yours where, like, when. When you say lengthen, what does that mean to you? And do you feel like you're actually doing it and then be able to image them and be like, are you doing what you think you're doing? And what percentage of people are accurate and. And what aren't?

Yeah.

And doesn't matter.

Yeah.

I don't know.

Yeah. Okay, so I have to ask you now, flipping the coin.

Yeah, go.

What do you see that's happening in, like, you know, the social world or just what's circulating right now that, like, drives you absolute bananas, that you're like, this is misinformation?

Are we talking just pregnancy, postpartum?

I mean, you could just general pelvic floor health?

I think in general, there's still some. So. So obviously my. My super hyper niche right now is. Is working with runners. And I still. And this makes no sense to me. People that are trying to say that you have to breathe a certain way when you run to act, to pre activate your pelvic before your foot hits the ground. And I'm like, I didn't even think.

About doing that right.

And I'm like, why does anybody. So they're basically trying to take a concept that works really well with lifting. So I, I, I do, you know, CrossFit style lifting. I do conditioners, those sorts of things. Like, I think doing a particular breast strategy is really easy with something that's slow and intentional. I think you can, excuse me, even do breast strategies with some dynamic things. So like if you're doing, you know, jump squats or things like that, or you're even doing jump rope or double unders, like, I think there's breast strategies that you, or ways that you can breathe, but running is just so dynamic and automatic that I'm like, why? Why? I'm like, you can't. Like you just.

No, I'm like, how would I? Yeah, no, but there's people doing. I know, but you're just enjoyable.

I'm like, what are you gonna exhale before your foot hits the ground? So like, are you, are you gonna be like constantly? Yeah, so that one's weird. Gosh, what's another one?

You know, and the other thing I was thinking is, as you were talking through that, I think the biggest thing is too is like, there's this. For me, it was so life giving. You know, you go through pregnancy, you come back for the first time postpartum, and it's the most humbling experience in my, especially if you're an athlete. It's just humbling. You know, it's just humbling. You go from being able to crank out 20, 30 push ups on your toes to like square one. And so it's a very humbling experience. And you can have that thought pattern of like, I'm never going to be able to do a push up, a pull up, I'm never going to be able to do a jump squat, I'm never going to be able to do double unders, like these higher achieving things that I could once do without even thinking. Never going to be able to do this again. And like, there's no way my body's going to get back to this capacity. And then it is just miraculous to watch it happen. And it takes time. And I think that's the biggest misconception is everyone's like, well, yeah, I'm just going to, I should be running again by six weeks. My doctor says I'm clear, I should be running again by 12 weeks and running for me is like one of the most accessible things for women because you now have a baby and if you're a stay at home caregiver or even do your maternity leave or whatever, it's like, okay, I can put the baby in a stroller and now I'm with the baby and I can get physical exercise. So it's the easiest way to get physical exercise with your baby. So it's easiest, like return strategy. But it's also probably, you know, it's hard. It could be the hardest, harder. But I loved, and this is how I originally got to know Carrie is like through researching, Returning to Running and all this stuff. And I have your Return to Run program is just awesome. I love your approach to postpartum fitness, health and just like, you know, not sugarcoating it that like, we're not wallflowers. It's not like we can't do this. You very much have control and can do this. But yes, there are certain standards you should be able, you know, like, there's certain body functions you need to be able to do before you can just jump out there and do this.

Yeah, no, and, and, and I think, you know, and I don't know if this is your experience too, but I feel like depending on what kid people are on, you have to approach it in a very different way. So first time, I feel like, and myself included, I feel like we have something to prove and we think we have it all planned out and whether or not our kid aligns with that or read the manual or whatever, that remains to be seen. But I feel like first time moms, you know, they're scheduling the marathon while they're pregnant, you know, like, I'm get to this. And then I think they chill out a little bit and then, you know, they're exhausted through a second pregnancy and having to take care of another kid and work and all that stuff. And then I feel like they're a little bit kinder to themselves the second time around. And after that, I can't speak personally, but have, I mean, my other thing that I've seen is moms that have more than four kids put themselves first so much faster. And like those moms, like, I'm, I'm seeing them two to three weeks postpartum, they're right in here. They're like, somebody's got the kids. Nobody's gonna die. I'm taking care of myself. And I was like, wow, it took four kids to get that part figured out.

That is, that's probably, that's so True. I definitely, I always say each kid has chilled me out. Like each kid has taken me down a notch. You know what I mean?

Wait, wait. I know I, I hate when people are like well wait till. Yeah, it's gonna keep going.

I'm just gonn kid has just taken me down a notch and like build me out and you just get to know your body better and you know, you lower your expectations. And for me it was like I think there's perks that come out of it too. For me I really. Pregnancy and postpartum proved to me that I can be stronger than I was prior to baby with less effort if I'm doing it correctly. I was like, you know the girl who is in the group fitness studio teaching classes, The HIIT training, 15 pound weights, whatever, going and going and going and going. And I realized that like in a 30 minute session if I lift heavier and harder and slow it down, I can genuinely see such more significant results. And like that was game changing for me especially because my energy levels like as you have children, you know, like I only have so much energy and it can be gone by 10am or it can be gone. Especially when you're pregnant. I was like yeah, if I do a work I have to work out in the morning when I'm pregnant because by 3pm nothing is oh, you're done.

No no, no, you're done, you're done.

And so it's like I only have so much energy and I realize I was actually getting more like life giving energy from doing like a strength session than I was this like crazy hiit workout. And so for me that was like just so eye opening during pregnancy was like I actually saw myself come back stronger because I approached fitness differently.

Yeah, well I think as a parallel, I mean even just strength training period I think was coming into its own around the same time that you're kind of discovering this especially for runners like back in our 20s we're like we need to, we just run, we just run, right? And then you know, I think we have so much more data now that says hey, you know, lifting heavy and picking up that barbell, like that's going to make your running performance better. You're just going to be so much stronger. We've got great data now saying that that does not impact the fetus at all in a negative way in pregnancy. You know, postpartum outcomes are the same. Like yes, we need to keep lifting, doing all this stuff. But no, I, I feel like again like society was cool with it. We've got some research going along saying, hey, this is actually really good for you. And as a mom, like, you're all about efficiency. I'm like, how, my, my, how little do you need to do so no one dies?

And when people ask me why I love pull ups so much, it's because it is the most efficient exercise I can do in the shortest amount of time to work my back, my biceps, my shoulders, my core. And literally I can do 10 reps in and pair that with squat. Like just go back and forth between pulps push ups or pull up squats, pulp spots or squats pull ups for 20 minutes. I'm gas. I got a great workout and in 20 minutes I was so effective.

I'm, I'm such a fan of kind of introducing people to things that they haven't done before but might be easily accessible. So every dad has one of those like hanging doorway pull up bars in the basement, right? Because dad was going to make a workout and so I hijacked ours and brought it over to my office. And of course my husband's like, you can't take that. I need that. And of course he replaced it and doesn't use it. But anyway, I digress. I love anything hanging for just core period because again, you're having to hang. It's a longer lever arm. And then we'll do single double leg raises and we'll do kind of around the world where we're doing obliques. Like it's one of my favorite things to get lower abs and also work on grip strength for moms and that shoulder girdle, lats, all of those things. And dad's not using it. So I love to introduce people to that. I was like, you're. He won't even know.

The. After my third baby, the first thing I, I went and saw my, the pelvic floor physical therapist for after third baby. And the first thing I said, can I get on the pull up bar and show you how many pull ups do you think I can do? And like, is this safe at that point? Can I start progressing? You know, like, that was my so funny. Like, like I was just like, I want to do pull ups. That's the number one. She was like, what do you want to get back to? I was like, pull ups.

Yeah.

Because you know, just, you can't. I could not do them through second and third trimester, which is just heavy. I couldn't. Yeah.

Oh, that's so funny.

Yeah.

Oh my God.

I love pull ups too, especially for women. It's Just a strong, powerful movement. And like you said, it actually, it like opens up your shoulders if you're spending time hunched over, baby. And it's just so good.

Yeah. That and, and getting women who've never been under a barbell before, introducing that to them. Those are like my two key badassery. I was like, those two things will make you feel like invincible if you can do those.

Yes. And it's just, you know, now I think of everything as I do as a functional effort. So, like, literally, it's so funny, you know, like, getting up off the ground is a lunge, and bending over and putting the big, heavy, clunky double stroller into the back of the van is like, that's why I deadlift. And so it's just, it's. It's so functional for mom. So, like, while fitness can be wrapped up in this aesthetic world, for me, for mom specifically, I think that fitness brings so much to the table in the sense of like, allowing you to do what you were designed to do, which is you're carrying around 25 pound car seats. Not even with the, you know, with the baby, you've got groceries. On the other hand, you're constantly multitasking. You got a 30 pound toddler on the hip.

Yep.

Like, we're just active individuals as moms. And to have that strength and like the back pain, the hip pain, all these pain elements that come along with it can be mitigated by building a strong foundation and skeleton. And then also it's just the confidence and the mental health.

Yes, all of that. All of that. I did think of something that, that does bother me, and I would love to hear your. Your thoughts on this, because I'm. This is another avenue, I think why people get into exercise and pregnancy in postpartum is the body weight and the body image conversation. And that one just is always a dagger to my heart. Like when you have that mom that I had one recently, she went back to work really early, probably the earliest of any patient I've ever had. Like a week or two after a C section, back to work. And four months now we got her in the gym really early, got her cleared so that she's able. She's getting her, you know, regular workouts, and she's doing phenomenally. I'm so proud of her. But friends and family are asking her when she's gonna lose the baby weight, and she's still lactating and telling her, you know, she should lay off the carbs. And I just like, my heart breaks and I was like, I don't, I don't even know where to start with that, but I know that it's very much a real thing being in a body that you don't recognize or, and whether you anticipated that or not is a whole other conversation and how to navigate, you know, people telling you that, you know, when are you going to look like yourself again? You're like, well, this is me. Like, what have you kind of run into with people as far as that's concerned and what's been your experience?

Yeah, it's the number one reason I will never. And I actually hope that I genuinely mean this because now things could change, but we have never and I, it is my intention to never use. And I know they're powerful for selling, but like transformation, the before and after, the nine months in, nine months out, like that was, I think are just so detrimental. Like literally women are sharing themselves else one week postpartum and then they're like, look what I accomplished in a year, you know, whatever. And it's like, I'm so happy that you feel strong and that you, you know, like, yeah, that, that's great. But it's just like you're comparing your one week postpartum body, which was just, you know, carrying a human and doing all these amazing things to like, you know, nine months, a year later, like, of course you look different. Of course, you know, like, of course you look different.

Right.

And it just feels, I don't know, the transformational, the before and after. Like, I'm so glad that women are going through transformations that make them feel strong. But it's just a marketing strategy that I think is detrimental because just you fall into this like comparison.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm a fitness trainer. I'm pretty fairly confident in my body. I show up on camera, all these things. But I remember especially during pregnancy and postpartum, it's when women are like the most vulnerable, especially to market very much voice. Like, you're the most vulnerable, you're the most uncomfortable in your body maybe or whatever. You're experiencing things you've never experienced before. And so it just feels like a marketing ploy targeted at just your vulnerability and your comparison.

Yeah.

And for me, I've just always tried to like during my pregnancy and like during pregnancy I try to like encourage like, yes, pregnancy. It. Weight gain is a natural part of pregnancy. If you do not build strength during pregnancy, you are going to be your heaviest at ultimately your weakest.

Yeah.

And that's just where you're set up for Injury, not success. Right. So for me the mind shift was viewing like weight gain. I'm going to gain weight during this pregnancy. Right. Like that is a natural part of it. I never carried little, you can look at all my, I never carried little. I was a, my belly was out there and I enjoyed that because when people like knew I was pregnant it was, you know, it is what it is, is but I carried large. And so it was flipping the script of like this is going to happen. But if I don't continue to maintain, I don't need to gain and get, you know, do anything crazy. But if I can maintain that level of strength, then I will be strong at my heaviest. This is going to be the heaviest I am in my life for me at this season. And so, but then the postpartum is where it gets really vulnerable and that I think is just the hardest battle because there's just these expectations whether or not you want the bounce back, the anything. Yep. It's often self imposed but it's just out there. It's just, it's there. The nine month in, the nine month out photo, it's out there, it's everywhere. And so how to combat that I genuinely don't know but I think we, we shared a reel and it's been one of our like most viral content is like me sharing the baby, like me lifting with my big pregnant nine month belly and then me lifting and it says what's the difference between these two? And it says two years. And I think just starting to open up that conversation. Like I never felt like myself. I never got my pre baby body back until two years. Every single baby two years. And I think acknowledging that it's no nine month in, nine month out, like for me it was two years.

Right.

And I think just like giving women permission for time and time is the hardest thing. We live in this microwave society. No one wants a slow cooker. And to get your strength back, to get your mentality back, to get your back, to get any of that, it takes time.

Yeah, no, and I, I think that there's a couple things with that. Like I, I think when you're pregnant the first time and you're thinking about going back to work postpartum and like, oh, by four months I should, everything should be right. And you're visualizing yourself doing exactly what you're doing right now and you just happen to do drop off and pick up and you, you, you mentioned breastfeeding or you mentioned feeding or things like that, but you don't really get what that means. I'm like, I, I. It just I. And that's where I, I get so upset. Is that how it's like we're lemmings on this like continuous track of like, how do we have so many women understanding what happens in reality? And then it's like they fall off the cliff and then a whole new set comes on and does the same thing over again. It's like, how do we stop that conveyor belt from happening? Because I feel like by now, you know, my kids are 11 and 14. I feel like people should get it by now. And it's definitely better, but it's not perfect. It's just, I don't know, I think the other thing, and this is a conversation a lot of us in physio are having lately, is our potential contributions historically to potentially deconditioning moms in pregnancy and early postpartum. And part of that is, I mean, let's go back to diastasis recti for a second. Like we didn't have a lot of research, really didn't have any. And everything that we did was out of fear of making something worse. And so don't do abs in pregnancy, don't do abs in early postpartum. If you have diastasis. Don't do this, don't do that, don't do sit ups, don't do crunches, don't do squats. It's like, okay, a squat is getting up and off the toilet. A sit up is getting out of bed at 2am for screaming baby. Like these are all functioning movements. Why are we shutting it down? And now we have created a generation of women who are fearful of movement and oh by the way, are now entering perimenopause and menopause and didn't get the same treatment that I give my patients today. It's almost like we need to go back, put our arms around them, say we're really sorry, you know, fear kept you from moving and we need to get you caught up. Like I think we're having more discussions about and it wasn't intentional, we didn't know. And now that I think we're seeing that, really trying to get that message to those parts of the world that are still saying those things of like, actually no, we need to get you caught up. We want to be doing abdominal work in pregnancy, we want to integrate it early postpartum, those sorts of things. Because we now have data that says no, if you do that, that that interacti distance isn't going to change. So Go for it. But no, it's hard to look back, especially being a part of that generation and having my kids during that time that, like, ooh, yeah, no, I. My abs are still one of the hardest things and I have to navigate.

It is such a learning curve. Like, you look back, you know, there's things you would totally do differently. We look back at videos we filmed, and I'm like, my form is so terrible. Like, what am I doing in that video? You know, like, there's. You just. You get better, right?

You don't know what you don't know, and we didn't know better with more.

Reps. You get better with more reps. And so here we all are, hopefully getting better. But, I mean, that is the number one question I think that lands in my DMs is like, I had my baby. When can I start working out again? Is like, when can I start doing breath work and following your, you know, your core repair plan after baby? And like, when can I. And it is hard because, again, there's variables. Variables. What kind of labor and delivery did you have? Did you have C section? Did you have that where, you know, were you active before? When did you stop working out? Pregnancy? Like, so many variables that go into it. But, like, I truly started, you know, all of my breath work and everything and started like, you know, two, three weeks, and it was, like, minimal. It was like me laying on the ground next to the. But, you know, it's not like. Yeah, I think there's. The misconception goes both ways, where there's, like, this jealousy of women who are looking at other women like, you're exercising too soon. You shouldn't be doing that.

There's a lot of judgment.

Other. There's so much judgment around it. It's like. Like, I can't believe that. Did you see she went for a run at six weeks postpartum. She shouldn't do that. And then on the other side of the coin, there's like, yeah, so it's just, you know your body best. And that's what I've always come back to. You know your body best. For me, physical fitness was a requirement of my mental health. Postpartum. I struggled with postpartum depression really bad after my first. And, like, fitness has been a consistency in my entire life. And then when you take that away from me and add all these other stressors, like, my mental health. So for me, it was just like, my husband knew, like, I. When he got home from work or something. It was like, you take the baby, it's 20 minutes of me. Whether that was like light, you know, I wasn't going out and crushing. It was just like for me, physical fitness was a requirement for my mental stability.

Yeah. And I again, like, I think we've got some, some new data within the last year that confirms that, which is, I mean it's not groundbreaking, but it's nice to have it in black and white to be like, hey, you know, we need to be doing this. Exercise is good for mental health, it's good for sleep, it's good for the baby, all of these different things. And I think that's where my rigidity has kind of, I think it's gotten better. I think as an, as an early physio, you know, you think there's these hard and fast rules and then you realize later, like I remember a client once, her second kid, C section, three weeks, she'd seen another physio and the other physio had her doing like really basic stuff and she was like very high level executive. And she came in and she's like, I need to be cleared to run. And I was like, oh. And the impression I got was that if I didn't figure out how to get her running sooner than later, something not great was going to happen. And that's where I'm like, we have to look at mom as a whole person. Like if I tell her no, she's out. She's like, I've completely lost her attention. But if I help her figure out how to make that happen because it's going to help her mental health and she's basically telling me that she's a second time mom, it's not her first rodeo. If I can make that happen, then, you know, we're, we're doing, we're doing, we're getting her support and we're not doing her a disservice. But yeah, I, I always find too like if, if a mom is asking when they can run or when they can exercise, chances are they're not stuck in bed swollen. They can, you know, move around, their kids sleeping, their kids eating, their nipples aren't hamburger meat like I'm chant or you know, they're like, they recognize that they need that for mental health issues. If you're experiencing like obscene swelling, obscene pain, hamburger nipples, all that, you're not asking about exercise. And I know that because that was me. I was like, nope, wasn't on my radar screen because I had too many other things to put out.

Yeah, and that's your problem. That's such a good point is like, if women are, it's, it's. I think it's just, it's a, it's a mental health outlet. It's a recharging. And like you said, they're just, it's just like, you got to figure out what's best for you and your body and. Yeah, how I say the best ever. The best form of working out is one that you're gonna do and when you enjoy. So if there's something that joy that has been taken away from you during, during pregnancy, maybe I have friends who have had, like, because of fertility issues, have had, you know, very significant limitations, bed rest, those things, and it significantly impacts their mental health during pregnancy. And then like, as soon as they're cleared or, you know, as soon as postpartum, they're like, they're ready to go. Yeah, tell me I can go take a class again.

Yeah.

Because I have been like, so refrained from being able to do that. So I just think that, you know, there's just, just, there's power in movement. I think it's so good for your mental health. It gets you in the community space, not feeling isolated at home, which is like, I feel like one of the greatest gifts that I've been given is that as someone who struggled with postpartum depression, now being on the flip side of the coin, I get to, like, film workout videos that are geared towards women postpartum and speak life into their home. Because I might be the only other mom that or see that day that says anything to them. And so that's just like, I feel like one of the greatest gifts is as someone who's struggling mental health postpartum is being able to be like, you got this, like, yeah, you know, you finish this workout, who cares? But, like, I hope you can weather the storm of picking up the toddler food. Right. And just have that community and relatability.

Yeah. Well, I think there's so much to be said too, you know, for experienced moms that have navigated all of that, because you're very much coming from not only a knowledge base from, you know, kind of what you've done work wise over the years, but you're coming from a knowledge base of, like, you've experienced that. And, and, you know, not that I was a bad PT before I had kids, but I definitely said things like, like, if somebody's back hurts, I'm like, oh, just hold your baby on the other side. Yeah, right. I was like, maybe for four seconds. And then they're going right back to the left hip. Like, come on. They're like implying somebody wasn't trying hard enough. I'm like, you know, like, like, I. I'm sorry to whoever all those people are that your kids are adults now, but. No, but I think it, it's, it's. It. It means something different. I think when you navigated that space and navigated some of those hard times and, and, you know, I know kind of having navigated prolapse and diastasis and pro. And leakage and. And things like that, like, you, you understand in a way that nobody else can what those people are going through. It's so much more than a diagnosis. Just like, you know, the mental health challenges, like, you can hear about it, but like, like, when you've felt that and when you look at a, you know, a. A telephone pole and you're like, hey, that would be really cool to drive into right now. You're like.

You'Ve had those. Yeah, those.

Add those slots and it's a safe space.

Yeah. And like I said, you're probably in your space, seeing you're probably somewhat of a. A counselor as much as you are of public. I remember going into my pelvic floor physical therapy. I cried in that office. Oh, yeah, Yeah. I have the good.

I have the good tissues with the lotion. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, because it's just like you're in the thick of it and you're just trying to figure it out and, like. And feeling broken at the same time is really hard.

Yeah.

Because you're just like, my body's not doing what it's supposed to do or.

Yeah.

I've never experienced this how. Tell me that this is not the way it's going to be for the rest of my life.

Right. Everything feels so permanent at that point. You just. I projected everything forward to, like, if I did the wrong thing, you know, then my son was going to be screwed up till he was like 16 or something.

Or I thought I was just going to be a male course for the rest of my life. And, you know, here I am, totally free.

Like, no, exactly.

I remember having, like, these activity trackers, like, literally having to remove it from me because it's constantly being like, get up and move, get up and move. And you're like, no, I'm sitting and feeding a baby for eight hours a day. Like, wow. So just like, taking the activity tracker off during that postpartum season was really life giving for me because I was like, I don't want to know. I don't need, need steps right now. Like, that's not my primary goal.

Yeah, yeah, no, that's. Not to date myself or anything, but, like, we didn't have any of that. I mean, we barely. We had. We had an actual camera to take pictures of my oldest. So needless to say, it's hard to find those pictures where we definitely do have more pictures of our second. No, it's crazy. But like, but that, I feel like that that's, you know, to go full circle. Like. Like, that's where a lot of the obsession, I think, is about what should I be doing? Am I doing this right? Am I doing this wrong? Like, I, I need to get back to this. Like, I feel like that's the, the, the negative side of, of, you know, sharing everything and everybody talking about everything. Like, yes, it builds community. Yes. You know, you can have free information and access to, to people with knowledge, but at the same time, it makes us so vulnerable to that comparison and judgment and really that kind of. That hard mental health aspect.

Yeah, for sure. I think we've come so far in technology in so many great ways of the sense of like, you know, hands free, breast pumps now, where you can literally have more freedom and do all these things and just not be tied. And there's so many advancements that have been made along the way. But like you said, now it's like I literally have the opportunity to walk alongside someone. I have no idea who they are, complete strangers on the Internet who are in the same month of pregnancy doing the. And we're having different experiences or things are going differently and there's just that comparison. Or like you said, I think we just figure out. I'll never forget I had this moment. We were. My husband plays volleyball and we were at one of his tournaments, and I'm walking with our. I don't know if it was our first or second in the stroller. And we were six. I was six months postpartum. And I was like, okay, we're six months. I think we've, We've. We're over the hump. Like, we got this. I've had. We've figured it out. And then the next morning, I remember, like, literally falling in a Starbucks, wanting to rip his head off. And I was like, we don't have anything figured out. Like the emotional roller coaster feel that way.

But yeah, I don't have as many. Like, I don't think they're as frequent, but I still have those where I'm like, I don't know what to do with the teenage boy.

Yeah. So it's just like. I think there's these. These. These time things that have been set in place. Like six weeks, you go get a postpartum checkup, you're good to go. You know, by four months, you're back to work, and everyone should be. Your baby should be sleeping, and you should be this. And then, you know, and then by six months, like, baby should start to do this, and you should. And there's milestones for, like, there's these milestones you're all held accountable to, and it's like, you know, you should be n. For this long or that and all that.

Just the should list is very long.

Yeah.

Unnecessary.

So it can feel very overwhelming trying to navigate it all. But it's so confusing. I mean, it's still confusing.

Yeah.

Yeah. To this day. So I think it's just. So we refer people to pelvic floor physical therapists all the time. Because it's so personal.

Yeah, no, I. And I learned something new from. I mean, especially with all the equipment that's out there and stuff, inevitably somebody's always bringing something in new, and they're like, oh, have you seen this? I'm like, nope. But that's kind of a version of something we used to have, but much more automated.

Yeah. Yeah.

So. All right, so what is coming up for you? I know, for me, I felt a. I think probably around the same time that, you know, with kids getting into school and finally having a regular schedule and things like that and getting up in years, I felt a little bit. Little less connected to kind of that early postpartum space and was kind of looking ahead. And then last year did a nosedive into perimenopause. Are. Are you. Are you thinking ahead to that?

Yeah. So I'm in my late 30s, but we are getting asked our community and that that information is circulating rapidly right now, and so it's crazy. Menopause conversations are being had all over the place. And I am just like. Like, you know, and. And I think we've been at a deficit for so long of just research being done on females, you know, especially in the athletic space or the strength building space or the. Even now, it's like, you know, all the stuff that's coming out. Cold, plunging, sauna, like, all the health and stuff that's coming out. It's like, how much of this research is geared towards females versus males? And then there's different. Like, you know, females should be eating before workouts. Men can do fasted, like there's just a plethora of information that is out there that is all conflicting or feels so confusing. And so, man, I'm like thinking about this. I'm like, how am I? I finally feel like I'm getting my body back and like getting back and now I'm gonna have to go through perimenopause and menopause. Like, what is this? And so I feel like in my space right now, personally, I'm just like, I'm in the camp of like, I am trying to be as strong as I like, I'm trying to build as much muscle as I can to weather the storm that is coming ahead of me with like menopause and perimenopause. So I'm really focused on building strength and continuing to share strength training for women. Women. I just like, you know, when you talk about like the things that bother you, for me it's always been these really athletic, strong looking women who are filming workout videos with 5 to 10 pound dumbbells. And it's like, you don't look like that by lifting that.

No. Thank you for saying that. Thank you for saying that because it just, it doesn't. The math. Doesn't math.

No. And so for me that's always been without genetics. Yeah. So for me it's just continuing to teach women. Like, like we film our workouts, you know, and you've just, you've seen my progress over time. Like I started with the small weights and I was classic group fitness instructor. 10 pounds, do as many squat thrusters as you can and then jump into burpees and then, you know, and so I just come a long way in that learning pattern. And so just really continuing to encourage women. My favorite messages are I can finally do push ups on my toes. I did my first pull up, I got 25 pound, 30 pound dumbbells. Like just seeing women like just empowering women to continue to get stronger. Especially as we know that we're losing mass as we get older and just the importance still continuing to be athletic. And you know, we hear this like hit is bad for you. No jumping, low impact, everything. And it's like I'm an athlete at heart. I grew up playing sports. I love athleticism. I think that's what differentiates our workouts is they are a little bit more athletic. You're not going to see me doing a lot of like girly movements necessarily. Like we're just athletic. Like, you know, we, I move in all planes of motion. I love box jumps. I love athletic movements. We Build that stuff into my programs and just continuing to show women, like, you can, can jump and you can move athletically and it's actually really good for your bones.

Yeah.

So really excited about just continuing and sprinting and, you know, just getting out. Like the best hamstring exercise is probably a full out, all load effort sprint if you really want to build strong hamstrings.

No, and I, I'm so glad to hear you say that because, you know, in. I'm actively in the perimenopause, menopause, dumpster fire, myself and weeding through it. It not only as an individual, but as a provider. It's a shit show. Like, I'm not going to lie. And the one thing that we know is that resistance training is king, queen, whatever you want to call it. That's what we know. Everything else is crap. Even like when we're eating, you know, like all that stuff. And, and I think that's the hard thing that we're going to see right now is because on one hand we have some really loud voices that are bringing awareness, but there might be a shred of truth and then a lot of misinformation and a lot of misquoting of research. And I think we're finally seeing more researchers in that space starting to call that out as it becomes. And so again, the one thing that we can agree on is resistance training is good. And that's the conversation that I'm having with a lot of my postpartum moms. I'm like, look, if you're not doing this, maybe we don't start right now, but I want you to get that we're going to. I need you to know that it's coming. You just need to wrap your head around it. However that's going to. Look, whatever your entry gateway drug is to this, we're going to do this. And then the other things, I love what you said about jumping and sprinting because there's a huge balance component to that. And that's one of the things that we do know diminishes as we age. And to decrease that fall risk, we want to be sure, you know, our balance is good. And what better way to do that than to, you know, find that agility. And that's one of the biggest issues that moms have when they go back to running is they feel like they're running through molasses. And I'm like, well, because you're not doing any agility or jump training or anything like that, because of course they don't want to because it makes them pee so great. Let's navigate all this stuff now so that when you get to Perry. But that. That was the. The point that I wanted to come back to with is I am seeing a ton of postpartum moms that they're just barely through postpartum, and they're hyper focused on perimenopause. And really, the moms that are in Perry before age 40, they tend to have ovarian insufficiency. So they may have, you know, fertility issues or things like that. But really, most moms aren't going to start to have those symptoms until their 40s. But I find these moms, it's almost like they have fomo and they're like, all right, what's next? What's next? I was like, this isn't like, you. You. You have the boyfriend, you have the wedding, you have the kids, and then you get. You. You do the postpartum, and then you do the Perry. Like, no, like, I was talking to a Perry mom the other day. We're like, wait, can we just have this? Like, you guys got really great postpartum. We did not. Can we just figure out Perry? You guys, just hold your horses. We'll figure it out. We'll let you know. I promise. We'll pass it back. Yeah, but I'm seeing so many moms, like, early moms, and they're like, yeah, I'm doing my weighted vest. It's my toddler I'm thing.

You can have that. Do the weighted vest. I was like, I just. That means. I feel like it. It's an official sign that you're 40. I'm not there yet. I'm not doing the weighted vest. The. It's just like these trends. It's. It's amazing. The power of social media. Everybody must walk with a weighted.

It hurts my soul. Did you see? I. I did a post on that the other day, and this is going to air a while after that. But no, I. I looked into the literature and. And one of the major influences officers that has talked about it, Mary Claire Haber. I appreciate what she's done. If you go back and look at her reference list, it's all. Postmenopausal is where the data comes from. Because, again, nobody's really taken the time to do perimenopause. And so they're just extrapolating. And again, I am not. I love extrapolating. That's where we've gotten our information as far as postpartum return to run the 2019 UTK guidelines. We're like, hey, this is what we know kind of about females and kind of about running. And we're just going to do the best we can. Like, I get that, but I think we need to be transparent about. No, we don't know this. And if you're not exercising, this is not your start. You should start general exercising first. If you're not doing resistance training, why don't you start there first? If you're already doing resistance training and you're already walking, maybe this would be something to help you. And also if you're walking and you're looking for something to make you feel better about when you walk or do. I'm all about, like, judging up to make sure that you do what you're supposed to do. But I think we need to be really, really clear with people. And this is where I. In the perimenopausal space. Because we're dealing with fluffy middles and body image and stuff again, which is a very true thing, I will tell you. People are looking for that immediate thing. And I'm like, well, are we looking at bone density changes? Are we actually looking in perimenopausal women? How many of these people are actually predisposed? Like, there's a lot of questions and a lot of. Of things that need to be sorted out and a lot of claims that are not completely validated yet or. And. And so I think that's the part that I would caution a community that's getting some good pregnancy and postpartum information that is going in print that we don't have that. So you don't. You don't take it out of your shopping cart on Amazon. You don't need it yet. Right? You don't need to look like a 40s mom yet. If you're in your 30s, trust me, you'll get there. I mean, promise.

Right? And so that's where I'm like, for me, I'm not there yet, but it's like, you know, the things that I can do to prepare myself is basically like, we know resistance train is through and through. The thing that I struggle with right now is the recommendations for resistance training that are coming out around menopause and perimenopause. Because it's like really saying you should be lifting really heavy for like 4 to 6 reps. And most women are not conditioned to do that. No, like that. You have not been trained. You're not lifting heavy enough. You don't know the movements well enough. Like, to be Going that heavy. Heavy. And where you're like four to six reps is your mat. It's just not, you know, we. We grew up in the. We. I grew up in the. If you're a millennial or even I think the generation above me. And we grew up in like the, you know, the 15 pounds, working out 20 reps, whatever. And so to jump from that to doing four to six, like, to me it just feels like we're setting people up for injury, especially because, you know, joints. And we all, we know all this as we age, our joints are not as they're not going to handle as much load. And so if you're not conditioned. Mentioned I think the. I love heavy resistance training. Don't get me wrong.

Yeah.

But the recommendation for it, I think needs to be much more led up to like you. This is not something you jump into. You don't just jump into going to four to six reps. You don't jump into eight reps. You, you start with body weight.

So this. So you're highlighting on. I think we're talking about the same person too. A lot of that stuff isn't validated either. And I think that's the thing to pay attention to. And again, like the louder voices right now, the ones that are being highlighted are getting, they're, they're in conflict of some of the actual scientists doing some of the data here in this space. And so that's what I would just caution people to wait. And then the other thing is some of these recommendations are for the 5%. Like, hey, yeah, you've been already doing this if you want to optimize this more. But if you're not to your exact point point. Why don't we just start with lifting first? Why don't we. And, and the thing is, you don't have to do that specific thing because anybody who starts to lift weights, who's never lifted weights before, guess what, you're going to get stronger.

Yeah.

So. And, and this is where again, I think this is the same thing that we literally started this conversation with of moms wanted to do the right thing. Right. And so we want to do the right thing. So we're, we're going to highlight in. Into that, you know, six to eight reps or whatever that is not realizing that we missed the foundational of why don't you pick up a weight? Why don't we build a space and a community where you feel comfortable lifting up a weight, you feel safe, you know what you're doing and you feel Consistent. And then we'll go from there if you need to.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, it's the.

You know, the progressive overload is great. I'm, like, a huge fan of it. It's just like, there has to be an on ramp. Right.

Well, that's what progressive overload. You got to start somewhere. You don't start at the top. You got to start with a foundation to progressively overload, you know?

Yeah, yeah. So it's on ramp for everything. Yeah. And at the end of the day, I always come back to tell people, like, if you don't genuinely enjoy lifting heavy and like, Pilates is your jam or swimming is your jam or running is your jam. Like, yes, you will always benefit from resistance training, but the most enjoyable workout and the one you're actually going to do is the one you enjoy. So, like, there is nothing is good movement. All the trends that are blowing up on TikTok, the stair stepper, the whatever. Any movement is good movement. Can I tell you that you will get better results through doing this? Like, it. You know, I live in the YouTube space too, so no repeat workouts. Like, blowing up. They get the most views. And as a trainer, I'm just, like, dying inside film A no repeat workout to get views. Because I'm like, this is not efficient. You should not just do one set of squats and then move on to a bicep curl and then do this and then do this and then do this.

Well, this one's stronger anyway. If you don't repeat.

No. So I'm like. But. But they get the most.

I know, I know.

Love to, like, just go through a workout, you know?

No. And that's the part is science is boring and, like, facts are boring. And that's where we are. Sorry, people.

Three sets or four sets or five. Boring.

Yeah, exactly. But guess what? If you're. If you're. If you want to get actual change, boring works. And maybe it takes us getting to. To. To menopause to realize that. I don't know.

Yes.

Okay. We could talk. We could do a whole other episode on that. All right. At the end of every episode, I ask a couple questions. What's a book you're reading or podcast that you're listening to Right. Right now?

Oh, but. Well, I'm currently reading Man, I don't even know his name, but I think it's like the. This. What is it now? The something of wealth I have. I get his email, saw he bloom. Is it bloom?

Okay, Wealth.

I don't even know the title of it. But basically it breaks down, like, time, wealth, financial, like what we all say, you know, we want out of life. And, and it's just, it's really good. It's just, oh, good. You should have it. I like it. It's just like, you should have your North Star. What is your North Star? Like, what is your mantra you live by? For me, it's like, I wake up early. Early. I do hard things. I read my Bible. I work hard. I'm generous. Like, have your North Star that you come back to. This is my North Star. This is who I am. So I really like that it goes through the series of wealth. I should know what the title of the book is. I have so many books on my nightstand. I just read them.

I know, Me too.

I'm flipping back and forth between that and, like, habits of the household. And then I have one on my nightstand for. I don't read fiction. I have three fiction books and I, I, I have a productivity aholic problem. So reading fiction feels like, oh, lapse of.

I hope you grow out of that. It's not, it's not. It's. It's one of those things that if you let your brain go into, like, I don't know, summer read mode and then come back out of it, it's a little bit char. Like, I have to go back in and out or I have a certain time of day that I'll read fiction, which is right before I go to bed because I can't get through very many pages because I fell asleep. But no, it's like I've learned a strategic place to put that is like, I need to have my brain, like, a little mushy so that it can come back sharper. Otherwise, it's just like.

So my goal is to read a fiction book this summer that is on.

My list, and then you can, you can do it.

Yeah. Podcast. I'm usually they're listening to a business podcast, like Jenna Kutcher, the Gold Digger, some type of, of, like, business podcast or the Huberman podcast. I like scientific data. I just listened to the Huberman podcast on how to learn a skill faster, and I thought that was really interesting. So I love learning.

Yeah, I have some issues with him, but we'll move on.

There's good, you take, there's good enough.

Right.

So for me, it's just always like, I love listening and consuming the data, and then you have to sit through and, you know, decide what, what data you want to.

Yeah, I don't have time to sift through his.

I like to honestly, I list it for my 8 year old. I want my 8 year old. It's how to, how to learn a skill, like a physical skill. Like, okay, he's really active right now, but he gets frustrated really easy. And so I wanted to listen to it for his sake and I. Because you learn more from your failed reps than you do your.

Yes, of course. Yep.

You learn, you know, and it's just a rep game and just not. So I just, I was listening to it for how to approach shoes with my eight year old.

Okay, well then that's fine. Well, we'll, we'll stick with that one. All right. What's favorite activity since becoming a mom?

Oh, playing outside with my kids. I just love being outside, being at the park, you know, we're just an active family. So being outside, I'm super looking forward to Minnesota summer coming up and being on the lake with them.

I was going to say, did the snow melt finally up there or it's finally gone?

The snow is gone. It's still not warm out, but we're getting there.

Oh, it's 31 here this morning. I'm like. But we're, we're very, we're very bipolar. It was like 85 a week ago and it was 31 this morning.

So.

So yeah, same. I don't like it. But we, this is what we have. All right, what's one piece of advice for moms?

Lower your expectations.

Nice, Nice.

We're just going to lower your expectations.

We're going to let that one marinate. I like that. Who is someone in your space we should know about? Who's got your attention right now?

Oh yeah. I love, love, you know, I love a lot of people in my space right now. There's just, I think there's so many people putting out good information and free resources which I really appreciate. I love my friends, the real food dietitians, they put out free meal plans. I love dietitian backed meals, you know, that are easy and accessible for mom 30 minute meals. I love my friends and dietitians in the fitness space. I like Get Mom Strong Ashley. Have you heard of Get Ashley? I love her just like, you know, kind of same no BS approach to just. We're not sugar coating it. You want to grow your glutes, you gotta lift heavy. So I really like her content too. I like Ashley from Get Mom Strong.

Cool.

And yeah, I'm trying to think of who else I really love following right now, but I really enjoy, I don't.

Know, there's sometimes I know handles and not people where I can visualize their face and I'm like, I have no idea what their name is. It happens.

Are you, are you.

You mentioned, you know, starting in the blog space. Are you ever gonna have. Did you watch that Julie and Julia movie? What? Isn't it like Meryl Streep and then the woman who wrote the book, I think she passed away of COVID but she wrote a blog. 365 Days of Julia Child's recipes for the Joya cooking. Yeah. So are you gonna get like 365 days where you're gonna pretend to be like Richard Simmons or something or. No.

Oh my gosh, that would be so fun. My husband. There's this one video on YouTube my husband does all the time. It's like 8 minute abs and the guy is, he is like a Richard park. And the video has like 8 million. And I'm just like, it's like he's in his little spandex app. He's like, come on gang. And you know, and he's like, see you back in 24 hours.

You'd have to, to go throwback, like either Richard Simmons or like Jack Lang or something like that. You'd have to do like super throwback. But I, I think you could do it complete without strong Jane Fonda.

Yep.

Yeah, exactly.

Right.

All right, last one. What does it mean to you to be an active mom?

Oh, I love that question. Honestly, I think it's just, just moving. Being with your kid, being outside, like throwing the football and it doesn't have to be. But I think also. And maybe this is separates a little bit, but like having your own goals. And I think that's like my husband and I have just like, I always have my own goals. Like it doesn't have to be anything crazy. You can decide you want to do a 5K, you can have. I have no training official goal. I'm not training for a race. I'm not training for anything other than I have a goal to do 15 consecutive pull ups. And so like me and my kids are always getting on the pull up bar and having competitions. And that's so my, my 8 year old set a goal to do one pull up by the end of the year and he can already do three. And I was like, I'm so strong at that age.

I know, it's annoying, isn't it?

Yeah. I was like, you did that in like four months. You gotta set a higher goal. So I think just showing your kids like, yeah, that when I'm at the, when we're at the playground, mom does pull ups on the monkey bar. Mom can do the monkey bars too. And I want to work on mobility and having active joints so I can crawl into those small spaces and go down the slide with them and just being able to do what they can do.

Yeah, no, I love that. I love that. All right, we're going to finish there. If you want to find out more about Lindsay and her free online programs, you can find her on Instagram at nourishmovelove. Lindsey Baumgren I'm so glad we finally got to chat and we got our circles smashed up together. Thanks for all the stuff that you do and thanks for joining me today.

Thank you for all the content you put out and allowing us to partner and share it. I love your Return to Run program. I'll always suggest it to us.

Thank you. If you're navigating pregnancy, postpartum or perimenopause, whether personally or professionally, check out all our free resources and upcoming courses@carrie pagliano.com this podcast reflects the opinions of Dr. Carrie Pagliano and her guests and it is for entertainment purposes only and should not be considered medical advice. Always consult your healthcare provider with any medical questions. If you enjoyed the episode, please take a moment to leave us a five star review on your favorite podcast platform and thanks for listening.