#19 Mike Thurston's Million - Dollar Blueprint for Fitness, Business, and Dating

forever talk about is Mike nutty or not. And I was like, fuck. If you have a big following, like, you can make really good money, like over 10K a month. Honestly, I didn't use their products. I was like, okay, so these aren't the highest quality products. If I'm not consuming them, why am I going to promote them to other people? Because if you are constantly comparing yourself to others, you're literally competing against people who drive around in Bugattis. But if that's how you're defining your success, then maybe you'll never be successful.

Mikey T, welcome to The Game Plan. This is probably the most formal setting that me and you have ever sat down in.

How you doing today, bro?

All good.

All good, man. It's— I'm, I'm sorry it's taken me this long to finally catch up with you.

All good. You had some recent travels.

You were in London, UK.

And what are we doing there?

We had some podcasts. I had a board meeting with Bionic, which is the company I'm now part of.

Uh, I was about to press you on that. That looks like more than a sponsorship.

Oh yeah, yeah, we, we are growing, we are evolving. We, uh, also went to MOBO Awards and saw family as well, so it was a productive trip.

Very nice. And you had a shower at 30,000 feet.

Oh yeah, 43,000.

Well Oh, excuse me, you got all about that different altitude, really hits different. What was that like? Is that your first time flying like first?

Yeah, first time. It's, it's weird because I'd put it off flying first class for a while because I didn't want to make business class shit.

Yeah.

Which is always— is what, you know, when you take that step from economy to business, you never want to fly economy again.

Yeah.

And then now that I've gone to first, it's kind of like, oh, business is, it's still good, but you, you want to get to the point on that, the great philosopher Dan Bilzerian. Oh yeah, wise man.

He said, uh, something— it was the same kind of analogy, but it was about driving a car. And I noticed it when like my car broke down and I had to get a rental, and I don't even have like a supercar, but I went back to like— it was like a Golf or something. No hate on the Golf drivers, but it was just like when you go to a certain level and then you go back down, it's very hard to deal with. But if you just kind of stay at that level, it's like that's something I would have been so happy with years ago. So like it's strange how your norm changes. This.

It's like when I, um, when I moved to Dubai and I got my, my car here, which is the F-Type drop top.

Yeah.

So that was a step up from having a Vauxhall Corsa to that, driving around in the sun. And honestly, like, I was so happy. Like, I just wanted to drive around for the sake of driving around. I can level up again, you know, you can go to the, the top supercars like Ferrari, Lamborghini, whatever. And yeah, it'd be good, but that same step up and feeling of happiness is just— it's not going to be there the second time around.

Yeah, I remember someone asked me, and I'm sure you feel the same, when you hit like 100K subs on YouTube and then you get another one, then it's like, I think the first 10K was the best, you know? Like, I think that's the happiest you'll ever be. But your growth has been absolutely crazy. But let's bring it back to day one. Now we're gonna get this wrong. You're from Leeds?

From Leeds, yeah, yeah, yeah, nailed it.

And you went to Newcastle?

Yeah.

For what reason?

So Leeds, born and bred, was there till 18, and then went to university because everybody was going to university and that was the thing to do, especially back then. It's like, well, what else were you gonna do? Like, yeah, there wasn't the glamorous PT life or social media life because social media wasn't really a thing then. Yep. So I went to Newcastle. That was actually the second choice. First choice was Nottingham. I needed 2 A's and a B. Only got an A and 2 Bs, so it's Newcastle. I guess that was a blessing in disguise. I chose Newcastle because of the nightlife.

And yeah, crazy place, I've been there. Cold but crazy.

Geordies are very funny as well. Yeah, I went to Newcastle, studied economics and business management, was there for 3 years, then didn't know what to do, so did a season in Marbella being a club promoter. Again, very fun. I think I developed my people skills quite well because I was just on the street, like, trying to get people to come into the clubs.

I did it as well for a little bit too.

Yeah, I think— I don't know if you did it the year after me.

I think I was—

it was—

we missed each other by a year, but it's so funny how we started— everyone does a little stint in Marbella, hand out flyers.

It was— I think for that point in time when I was 20 turning 21, it was the best thing that I could have done. Yeah, the only other option was to like go back to Leeds and just get a really shitty job.

Exactly. And then I'm pretty sure at one stage you worked in Hollister as well.

Yeah, yeah.

So that was when we've had the same upbringing.

So that was when I after I'd been working as a club— I was doing everything at that point, but club promoting, modeling, the most random things. And I was like, you know what, I just, I need a normal solid job where I have a decent routine and a set paycheck. And that was when I was working on the door and one of my friend's girlfriends came up to me, started talking, and she was a manager at Hollister. And she said, oh, you should do it. And I was like, I don't want to work in retail. Yeah, it's like, no, no, there's actually like a really good graduate scheme to become a manager where you basically manage the store. All right, then I'll give it a go. Did the 3 interviews and then got a position.

And when you were there working in Hollister, did you think, oh, this is my life, I'll just work my way up the Hollister ladder? Or do you think there's got to be more to this?

Yeah, I mean, because I remember we used to have like the, the meetings with the, the senior where we just— they would kind of ask us, where do you see yourself? Like, how do you want to progress? With, uh, being promoted. And I was just like, well, I don't want to be here, I know that's for sure. But I didn't know what else I was going to do. Honestly, I remember just walking around the store. Louis Armstrong was there as well. He was one of the, uh, he was the one of the models on the shop floor. He was such a little shit as well. Um, yeah, so I remember we were both there, we were both talking about what we'd rather be doing, and I think it came to the, the realization where at that point I just wanted to do something that involved the gym. Yeah, that was the only thing I cared about. And I actually grew to resent Hollister because it was getting in the way of my training routine. I had to squeeze it in whenever I could. And then my housemate had just become a personal trainer, and I was like, what's that? He goes, oh, you just go to the gym and you train people. I was like, well, sounds like a pretty good deal to me. So, uh, I made that transition from sort of leaving the job and then becoming a personal trainer.

Yeah. And that is when Aurora Athletics began.

Yes.

So tell me, what was it like? Because people don't know. Yeah, you had Physical gym. Yeah, we're going deep in this episode. We're going deep. So you started a physical gym in Newcastle, right? What was it like setting up that, like, renting the space, picking the space, employing staff, picking all the equipment? Like, that was probably a pretty big investment.

Yeah. So, I mean, especially for that age, I was about— I think I was 22, 23.

That's crazy.

Yeah. I remember my dad saying, like, you should probably not do this. That's like, what a funny—

wise person, senior.

So, uh, It was, uh, my housemate who had been a personal trainer. He was the one that gave me the idea to be a personal trainer as well. We were training at this gym called Men at Work.

Men at Work. That sounds like a Chip 'n' Dale company.

But it was a proper, like, good old-school gym.

Okay.

And it did have, um, a small area to train females, but it wasn't like the type of gym that you wanted to bring in you know, the affluent crowd.

Yes, the people with money. Yeah, yeah.

So we realized we needed a— we need to have our own place, we need to have our own freedom. Because of course, training out for the people's gym, you've got to give them a little bit of a cut, and then you just don't have the freedom to, to film, to shoot, because some clients like more privacy.

Of course.

So we were looking around trying to find a place, and, uh, we found this— it was like a, a warehouse, not huge, but like big enough to kit it out. Yeah. We'd saved up some money, had some money to invest. But the— a lot of people don't know is you have like the land use. Yeah, each, uh, premises. So we had to apply to the council to get the land use changed from one thing to another thing, and that took like literally 6 months. So we had all this money, we had everything ready to basically go into the gym. We had the, the mirrors, the floors, the machines, but we didn't get the green light from the council. It was a really stressful 6 months. But eventually they were like, okay, yeah, you can do this. And, uh, that's when we just went in for it and then, uh, basically kicked out.

And was it— when it was up and running, was it successful? Was it doing well? Like, what was it like? Like, and what did you— because you're a man that values your freedom.

Yeah.

Like, what did you think when you're going in there and it's like a physical brick-and-mortar business? It's kind of almost hard to picture you run that now.

At the time, like, the, the first few weeks, months, it was amazing. It's like, oh my God, I have my own gym. Yeah, just basically train whenever you want. And it's your space, your rules, play music, train topless. So it was like the dream.

The last point is the most important point.

But the, the weird thing about, like, in life when you aspire to have certain things and you think, oh, this is going to be like my dream, like when I achieve it I'm going to be happy, like very quickly it kind of got a bit repetitive. I think mostly because I was there all the time, like 7 or 8 in the morning till like 9 in the evening training my clients. I was there every day. I was getting sick of the place, to be honest. And I actually found it quite annoying when other people were there. I just wanted it to myself. I wanted to just blast my music, train topless, and just like shift some weight. But obviously if there's like high-end clients coming in there, they want to see me like balling around with my top off with some like some really, really aggressive Grime music playing. Yeah. So that was one thing I noticed, it started to not— the novelty wore off. And then second of all, in terms of how much it ended up costing more than I thought it would do.

Oh, always.

You've got the rent, you've got like just the utilities, you've got the council tax, you've got all like things that break, new equipment. So a lot of the money which we were earning to begin with was— I was just putting it back into the business. I was like, fuck me, I don't have any money to spend. Yeah, I can go to— I can go to Lidl to do my food shop, pay petrol for my car, and that is literally it. Get enough to have some trebles on the weekend. So it was, uh, we realized we needed to get other trainers there to coach their clients to actually, you know, help contribute to paying the rent because we couldn't technically turn it into an official gym. We didn't have the, uh, the permit.

So much red tape.

Yeah, a lot of red tape because the, the amount of cars it would bring to the area. And I guess, to be honest, it wasn't really big enough to make it like a commercial gym. Yeah, it would have been way too busy.

And then it's like you hire in more trainers, train more people, and then you pay them a salary, and it's so hard to just keep things lean.

Yeah.

And so at this stage, I think this is when I first ever found your videos. Yeah, like you're training in there, and so you decided to pick up a camera. What made you do that?

Well, you know what, the, the thing I always look back upon is I'm annoyed at myself that I didn't start sooner.

Yeah.

Because I had been in that gym probably for about 2 years before I actually started filming anything. So I did 2— I competed twice, didn't fucking film a thing.

What?

Yes.

What federation?

WBFF.

Oh shit, yeah, I've seen the pictures. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

First one, uh, Justin St. Paul won.

Oh nice, he's a good dude.

Beat me, the bastard. Good looking guy though.

Yeah, I know, he's like, he's like the ideal WBFF. So wait, I always forget that you competed. Would you ever do it again?

I would do it one more time purely just to, to give myself a goal to see like how good I could look. Yeah, because right now with everything going on, it's like, well, okay, so what is the return of investment for me competing right now? I'm not gonna get any money out of it. Yeah, it's not like I need more exposure. If anything, I give the Federation more exposure. Yeah, it would purely just for me to do as a goal to just get some sort of reward out of it.

Yeah, so I obviously competed for the first time in 6 years in May. I did 2 shows and I have to say it was one of the highlights after making it.

You were supposed to do it and then COVID hit.

Got into like day 21, I was like, did a big montage and everything, and I'm like, it's time to go get back on stage, and COVID and the world just shuts down.

I was proper invested in your prep.

Yeah, and I was like, I'll see you guys in like 2 years. But yeah, that put everything on hold. But so I finally did it, I'm a man of my word, and Honestly, like, you know, stepping on stage was a cool feeling and all that, but the best part about it was the productivity that I had. Oh yeah, that really just came with, you know, going monk mode, not partying, not going out, you know, no distractions, and like being so on point with your diet and training. The only part that I actually felt bad, like wrecked, was the last like 2-3 weeks. Not even like the 3 weeks, only the last 2 weeks when I was like on like depletion mode, 1600 calories. But apart from that, the other like 12 weeks, I was just like, you know, I don't find it hard to stay lean and cut down. I don't think you do either. So I think like if you just go monk mode and then you pretty much just use the prep as a time to work on business loads, is the best, best business period.

When you have that discipline with your training and nutrition, it rubs off onto your, your business life as well.

Yeah, it's the foundation of absolutely everything. So to go back to your first business, Aurora Athletic, did it, did it fail? Did it not? Does Mike Thurston have a failed business under his belt?

I would, I would say so. It wasn't— it was doing well enough to continue to run. Yeah, but it wasn't making like big money.

Yeah, not life-changing.

If it was, then what I would have— I would have gone down a different route, which I thought I was going to do at one point. I thought I was just going to open up gyms around the UK.

Could have been Alex Hormozy Gym.

Or even, um, like the Ultraflex gyms. Yeah, they're like— they're sick gyms.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, so I think that was when I realized at one point, okay, obviously being in the UK, the weather's trash most of the time. When I traveled and when the sun was out, I noticed how that made me like really happy. Yeah. So I was like, okay, I want to be in a warmer place. I want to travel more. And when you have a gym and when you're training clients, you kind of have to be there. Yeah. I mean, I guess you could travel more if you have your own gym, but realistically, if you want it to work you know, it's like your little baby. The first few years you have to nourish it and help it to grow. So that's what I thought, right? Well, I want to make money online, I want to make it in my sleep. So how do I do that? Well, the, the business needs to be online. So how do I create demand for an online service or product? Well, I need to build my following. And that's when I was like, right, okay, pick up the camera.

And what was— when you were doing YouTube, so you started in 2016, right?

2016 was the first one. I think it was a FIBO vlog. Oh nice, man, I love FIBO.

Joe, I'm going to an expo with Ghost next month. It's the Arnold in Birmingham, like BodyPower.

Okay, pretty much.

So I'm actually really excited.

That's bigger than BodyPower.

Yeah, yeah, but it's in like, you know, the same NEC, so I'm actually pumped for some expo feels. But so you picked up the camera, you started vlogging. When did you find like, oh shit, this has taken off?

So I think like with everyone, you don't really know exactly to begin with what type of content you're gonna make. I think realistically I wouldn't get too concerned with trying to put out this polished end product because realistically no one's going to watch it. Yeah, I mean, even I had a— I think I had a few hundred thousand followers then on Instagram.

Oh really? Just from being jacked?

I was— I guess I was one of the early adapters as well. I started posting when I was like 20, 22. Yeah, like the first post. So at the beginning, at the beginning, I was a bigger fish in a smaller sea. Yes, now everyone's on it. So it was quite cool, like I would just, yeah, post Topless pictures and get some like, you know, positive feedback from it, which was nice. Um, I, uh, I would tell people on Instagram to go watch my YouTube videos. Yeah, and people were like, nah. Yeah, like people are pretty loyal to their own platform, so I realized I had to find my own community on YouTube. So I tried doing loads of different things— vlogs, um workouts with like training partner. And then I think it was when I just did like videos where I was teaching people how to execute exercises properly.

That's when I found your channel.

Yeah, I did it. I did a series which is common mistakes people make when they train a particular muscle group. Yeah. And I remember one of those videos, it just hit 100,000 views and I was like, okay, so this is what people want to see. So then from that point on, I was like, right, the majority of my content is going to be like purely educational. I just wanted to provide as much value as possible in a short period of time.

Yeah.

And then I think 2017, I just focused on doing just that, like 2 videos a week, no distractions. I think that was when I got like 300,000 subscribers in a year.

Sick.

And then after that, I kind of transitioned a little bit more into the vlog and the travel stuff. I think it's very hard to start off being a vlogger.

Yeah, because you have— you need those how-to titles.

Yeah, yeah. Unless you are super charismatic and you're doing really interesting stuff. It's going to be very difficult for people to really care about what it is that you do. So you're better off just, you know, trying to provide value and help people to begin with. Yeah. And then once you have like a bit of a following behind you, then they're— they might be interested in what it is that you do.

Yeah. If you were to start from zero tomorrow, first of all, do you think you could, you know, build your business? He actually has a secret one. Build your following back up? And also, what advice would you give yourself?

Um, what— so what age am I going back to, and do I have my current, uh, expertise?

You have your current expertise.

Yeah, I think this is the problem. So for young people, late teens, early 20s, when they're trying to give advice, it's, it's quite difficult because they're still young, they haven't lived, they don't have much experience. So what advice can they give? So at that point, I mean, of course I could go down the route of coaching people. Yeah, if I've still got my expertise. But still, I think older men or women may be more reluctant to have a young coach, you know.

Yeah, experience with authority.

Do I want to work with a 19-year-old coach?

No.

So, um, I would probably just— I would make as much content as possible, try build my brand, but my content would be more just like vlog, like follow along what it is that I'm doing.

Document, don't create.

But then I probably I would do interesting stuff. So I would maybe go to interesting places or try and collaborate with other people. Just, it would be more entertainment focused before it would go down the route of like trying to teach and educate people.

Yeah. What do you think of the Sam Sulek route? Have you seen him recently?

Yeah, it's crazy because I was curious to see like how is this guy got so popular. And then I watched, I was like tuned into one of his videos and I ended up watching the whole video. I'm like, oh, like, so he's, he's very like calming and relaxing.

Yeah, and he sounds like a movie character.

Yeah, and he's just sharing his thoughts. Obviously he's jacked, like likable guy. Yeah, so I, I, and it was— I was intrigued how it almost gone the complete opposite instead of these highly edited, like, you know, over-the-top videos, you know, like Guzman would do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who's— who's now transitioned into just normal vlogging. Christian's doing them like all on his phone.

Yeah, it's— so I guess, yeah, maybe people have got exhausted and tired out from that kind of stuff, and then they just— they just like the, the simple stuff.

Yeah.

But I mean, fair play to him, he smashed it. And then he's, he's extremely consistent. He's doing a video like every day or something.

Every, every single day. Like, I don't think he's missed a day in 6 months. I love his vlogs, and like, I kind of like the way it's gone back to more minimalistic stuff. Like, personally, I got a little bit sick of constantly just looking at a reel with text on the screen, you know, even though I post that myself. Like, I like— I think it's going back to more YouTube, unedited, long form, just people documenting their life. I think that's the next trend.

It was annoying as well because then you've got to have a cameraman, you've got to have an editor, and then it's like, oh, you can only film when they're available and you've got to wait until the edit's done. Like, sometimes you've got a huge team. Yeah, well, but like, when I went back to the UK Like, I just, I filmed the vlog all by myself and edited it myself.

Well done, Mikey T!

Because I like editing. It just takes a bit, like, it does, it does take time. But that's what I did for the first 2 years, did everything by myself. But obviously if you want to scale it, then you do need to bring a team in. Yeah. And I think to begin with, if you are starting your own channel, I think it's, it's good to watch yourself back. Like, you learn a lot about how you portray yourself on camera and what your body language is like, because you, if you just spend all this time watching yourself. You're like, "Oh, fuck, I didn't even realize I'd do that." Whereas if you were just to film, you give it to the editor and it goes out, you don't really see yourself as much. And it's nice being in control.

Oh, yeah.

You could make a really shit joke and you're like, "Oh, let's not put that in." Whereas the editor might be like, "Yeah!" "Yeah, Rob loved that one!" "Put it in!" Yeah, only you can pick up on your really awkward moments and the times, like—

I just got a vlog edited there and I got it sent back to me And there was like 5 seconds of me just staring off into the distance. I was like, you know, you were meant to edit that bit out. Just going completely blank.

But why did they leave it in?

Yeah, I don't know. Just maybe they thought it was like funny or something, or they just missed it. But so content aside, business advice aside, what would you say to your 21-year-old self? Just life advice. You know, you're there working in Hollister. You think there's more to life. What would you say to yourself?

I think I did the right thing. I would have, I would have said, get on social media. Yeah, fitness is going to be your thing. Stop being a little bitch in front of the camera.

There you go.

I think it was the, uh, speaking skills. I would have done some sort of media training. Really? Yeah, that was—

it doesn't— Chris Williamson do, uh, speech training?

Yeah, so he's had speech training, like, like lubricates his vocal cords before podcast. Like, he's on it.

Oh, he's unbelievable.

But I think, uh, like a lot of people, especially youngsters, they have like a, a weakness or something which really needs to be built upon. And for me, it was that just confidence speaking on camera, my ability to just communicate to people. And I mean, I could have started a couple years earlier than I did. Yeah, but I didn't. I kept procrastinating. It wasn't until— do you know what actually got me really started with YouTube was the fact that I knew I was going to leave the gym. So I was like, shit, I've only got 6 months in this gym now, so I'm going to make the most of it.

Yeah, I remember when I, I quit my office job and I just like woke up the following day and I'm like, I've literally no other option. I'm like, my parents are like, you know, why aren't you going to work? And I'm like, oh, I'm just taking a day off. And I was like, I literally just need to upload. Like, I have to make this work or it's not going to work.

People usually make that big step in, in times of desperation. Yeah, so I like, I remember I forced myself to leave Newcastle where I was comfortable. I went to London, I got this apartment that was far too expensive for me at the time.

I've been in it, the white one.

So, oh no, no, no, so that you went to the, the other one. Yeah, yeah, that was the bougie one. So before that, that was like the, it was just a one-bedroom, uh, studio, but that was still very expensive. Like, I couldn't afford it at the time. But I put myself in a position where I was like, okay, these are now my overheads. Like, I really need to make it work, otherwise I'm gonna get kicked out.

Yeah.

So that sort of desperation made me think, right, okay, it's time to really make money. Yeah.

And do you find being in Dubai, they're kind of— it's like that times 10?

Yeah. It's a good thing and a bad thing, because if you are constantly comparing yourself to others, I mean, you, you're literally competing against people who are driving around in Bugattis. Which I kind of like. It's motivating. But if that's how you're defining your success, then maybe you'll never be successful in that sense. Um, of course London has— London has a lot of wealth as well, but I feel like in Dubai it's a lot more in your face. Yeah. But the best thing I like about Dubai is just there's a lot of people similar to me who've— they've moved, relocated purely to focus on themselves, on their business. And they're willing to help other people as well, which is amazing. So it's— I do find it motivating here for sure. And but even when I thought— I remember when I first came here, I was like, yes, I'm doing good, life is good. Yeah, it really was the point where I thought I've kind of made it because, you know, I, I had a schedule where I could pretty much do whatever I wanted. The money was still going to come in. Uh, I was in the sun every day living the good lifestyle. But then more and more wealthy people started coming here, more social media people started coming here. And then I noticed there was— I'd get invited to dinners or parties or whatever, and I would just come across these guys that don't even have a huge following, but they're just fucking making so much money. I'm like, what?

It's wild.

How are you— how are you making so much money?

Yeah.

And then I just thought, like, these guys, they haven't even mastered the art of building a brand or a following, but they just know the business side of it.

Yeah.

I've mastered the art of building a following and a brand. But I don't know enough about business. So I'm like, okay, I need to learn more business. Like, I've done the hard part. Yeah, I just need to figure out how the whole business side of things works.

Yeah, learn the backend and systems. And but now, despite that, I would consider you still a pretty good businessman. So what are your current income streams?

So there's the, the app is still one of the biggest ones.

Okay.

There's the clothing Yeah, although the clothing's not like— I don't take the money from that. It's kind of— a lot of it gets reinvested. There's obviously ad revenue from YouTube, there's affiliate links, you know, even like Woo.

Apparently so.

Um, I used to be with sponsors back in the day, but I pretty much cut off.

Yeah, Myprotein. Yeah, where are they gone?

So they were paying me really well, but I just didn't— I didn't honestly— I didn't use their products. And because I've become a lot more about quality and more concerned about what I'm putting into my body, I was like, okay, so these aren't the highest quality products. If I'm not consuming them, why am I going to promote them to other people?

Yeah.

So that was a tough one because that's like, oh God, I was making like over 10K a month.

Yeah, from my protein. Yeah, fuck, it's like a doctor's salary.

And they, they were pretty cool. They weren't telling me, oh, you need to do this, you need to do that. They were really chill. Built. Yeah, I was like, I can't, I can't keep doing this.

That's good that you got some integrity.

Yeah, I was like, fuck, man, there's so much money.

Yeah, yeah. And the fact that they're not even asking much— I think people fail to realize how much money there is in like sponsorships and the fitness industry and everything. Like, it's a crazy industry. And like, a lot of people that are— who are working conventional jobs, they refuse to believe it. Yeah, they just refuse to believe it. They don't want to believe—

I mean, you can— yeah, if you have a big following and you get a couple of good sponsors, like, you can make really good money.

Yeah, even on a podcast, like, let's not even talk about Joe Rogan. Like, Chris Williamson, like, I'm sure he gets paid tens of thousands per, per mention on a podcast. Like, it's absolutely wild stuff.

So it was, um, one of the reasons— yeah, the, the, the brands didn't really align And then I think I always wanted to go off and do my, my own, my own thing with supplements. Not necessarily start my own, but just collaborate with someone.

Yeah.

And actually have a piece of the pie. That's what I'm interested in now. I'd rather have a piece of the company and help it grow as opposed to being on the payroll, and then one day they'll be like, oh yeah, you're not actually that jacked anymore, so let's see it.

It's gonna be me, guys. I should crack this open. Yeah, and so what's the deal, if you can say, um, with Bionic? Like, what's the kind of like—

so, but like, I'm now officially part of the Bionic, which is, uh, I want to try some, by the way. They do customized, uh, supplements. Yeah, so all the multivitamins. So you can either do, um, blood test, which is obviously 100% accurate, or you do the questionnaire, which is like 80% accurate. And then, um, I will do the blood test every 4 months, get the updated supplements. And that's— I guess, you know, when you're in your 20s, you don't really care about that. Because you feel like you're invincible. But as you know, when you turn 30, you're like, oh, get a bit older now, like joints a bit creaky, gray hairs coming through. I'm like, fuck, I need to like look after myself a bit more. So I really treat it as an insurance policy, and I consider myself healthy, but I get my blood work done and there's still like— it's not a perfect blood test. Yeah, I'm deficient in certain things, um, have too much of some things, and like it varies from month to month. Month. So it's really cool. I've been having that since 2021, and I was, I was just taking it because I liked the company. But they had seen how even just me casually posting about it was having an effect on the growth of the company. They were like, we want you to be a part of the company now.

Yeah, that's, that's the best way for a relationship to kind of blossom, is if you actually use it and then you end up becoming an owner or partner. So that's insane. And speaking of blood tests, any update on the More Plates More Dates? Yeah.

Yeah, so spoke to Derek.

Yeah.

And he basically— because obviously Matt did that whole procedure with him, and I really don't know how beneficial it was for him because he did it all, basically proved, hey, I'm natural. And still, like, half the people in the audience like, you're not natural. It's like, what more does he have to do?

People will just refuse to believe it no matter what.

So I spoke to Derek, I was like, I want to do the same thing. Obviously I'm based in Dubai, can it be done? And he was like, well he has no contacts in Dubai. The, the federations and the authorities and everybody he used, they're not out in Dubai. It's very different. Yeah. So if I wanted to do it, do the same thing that Matt did, I'd have to go to the UK for at least 6 months.

God forbid.

Yeah. So I need to be there for at least 6 months to be randomly tested. It needs to be a long, long enough period of time. And that's obviously a problem because I'm not allowed to be in the UK for more than Uh, 180. Yeah, 190 days.

Oh, what, 90?

I think it's 90 days. Yeah, 3 months. 3 months max. Yeah, yeah. So that's a problem. Um, and then that's just assuming that he would want to do it because, I mean, he's now busier than ever with his supplement company.

Yeah, I think he's hardly even uploaded in the last one.

Like, why does he give a fuck?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

So it's— I mean, we'll see, but I think it's— again, it's one of those things that that I could do. I always watch, like, you know, like Simian Panda and other people who've done all these things to try and prove they're natural, and they end up getting more hate.

Yeah.

Than anything. So I'd, I'd rather not make it like a big topic and a big deal.

Yeah.

And it's, it's not— I don't want me to be, oh, let's, let's just forever talk about is Mike nutty or not. It's like, can we talk about something else?

Well, guys, I've got the ultimate proof. I've got the ultimate proof. Me and Mike, I've probably traveled with you more than anybody else. And on a particular trip in Ibiza, you, I think I asked to borrow some cologne. And yeah, we're living together and yeah, we're sharing a bathroom. I didn't see any paraphernalia. Okay, so there's number one. There's number one. And that was weeks on end unless you found a new steroid they just take once a year. And then another one was me and Mike were coming out of DC10. It was about 6 in the morning. Both of us off our head. I started like, oh my God, are you nutty? And he is. There's no way, there's no way I could pick up on it. There's no way you can lie in those situations. They're those situations of when you are just connected on a spiritual level. So no, I believe you. And again, yeah, you would just see it when they're living together for like weeks on end in, you know, in Ibiza or whatever.

Do you know what's mad now though? Because there are still some natural athletes in the fitness industry, but not a lot.

No, there is, but there actually is, you know.

So these, these guys who, uh, I mean, obviously they're very lucky with their genetics, but they, they don't want to take anything. They say, look, I'm natural, I haven't taken anything. They end up getting more hate than the people who choose to take steroids and are open about taking steroids. Yeah, like some guys who are like literally blasting tren, but they say I'm blasting Trent and everyone's like, yeah, Trent, encouraging Trent. It's really, it's really, really weird.

Yeah, it's a strange phenomenon. And see, we know because we're in kind of the back door of the industry, like we talk to people on a casual basis, we go on holidays with them, and we can always kind of tell, be it from just a conversation or just because we're experienced, you can tell who's natural, who's telling the truth and who's not. And there's some amazing physiques that are natural. Like, there's some that are just like— the way I look at it, I go, it's the same way some NBA players are 7 feet tall. This is just born with— like, you can just born with these perfect muscle insertions and muscle building genetics that it's just like, there's kind of no point in even debating it once you throw genetics into the mix.

I guess I could understand. So for example, somebody doesn't have the best genetics Yeah, so then, you know, they've been training for a while, maybe they want to hop on some stuff as well, and they look better. They see somebody else who is literally just like an absolute specimen. Yeah, they would just naturally assume, okay, well, yeah, that they're taking something. Like, I don't look like that, so they have to be taking something. Yeah, like, I think a lot of people underestimate what the human body is actually capable of. Yeah, and there are some freaks out there, but there's also a lot of people who do take Oh yeah, of course.

Yeah, like there's a huge amount, but there's still a huge amount of amazing natural physique. So I would say like, don't let it discourage you, you know, do your best, put in your 10 years first and then decide what you want to do after those 10 years.

You, you're probably going to look the way you actually want to look without the use of anabolics. Yeah, like nobody wants to be like super puffed up, like big round ball. Yeah, you just want to look like aesthetic.

Yeah, you want to just look lean, athletic, and just like—

it's gonna take at least 5 years.

Yeah. And also to look a certain— like, to look good on Instagram, all you need is be lean. Yeah, like lean and good lighting. Like, there's a few guys, like, uh, good examples— Alex Eubank, you know, he's not very big. Like, he just takes a great photo and, you know, gets really lean and like gets a pump on, and that's half it. You know, David Laid, these guys are all of amazing physique weeks, but they're just brilliant at taking photos and getting a good pump. So what is your current training and nutrition talking like? Because I feel me and you, when we go on podcasts, we always get like asked about like business and everything, and I'm like, we never talk about what we actually know about. So I made a note of it. I'm like, ask Mike what's his fucking training nutrition like.

I've been on Chris Williamson's twice, not once he me about training. I'm like, this is the thing I know the most about. And you're like, ask me about like, what, what do you think is the biggest problem men are facing in today's world?

I'm like, I don't know, Jordan Pearson over here. So run us through, first of all, a week of training, and then, then we'll go through like a day in nutrition.

Yeah, so I've, I would say I've tapered down the volume, so the amount of work which I do throughout the week. You know, back in the day I would train like 6 days in a row. I'd follow like a 6-day split. Now I just, I don't have the time to do that that, you know, there's other things going on. I can't be spending all my time in the gym, unfortunately. Yeah. Um, and I've, I've noticed, I think as well because I'm getting older, my body needs more time to recover. Or maybe it's just because I'm training more efficient and I'm pushing harder, I don't know. But I've just noticed that I need more rest days. Um, I have training programs on my app which I follow, which I usually cycle through every 5 weeks, and it just depends upon, okay, so am I going through a 5-week phase where I want to focus more on lower body? Is it more upper body? If it's a period where I'm doing quite a bit of traveling, then I don't usually follow a split. I just improvise, which I can kind of— I mean, we're coaches, so we can do that. Yeah, like the average Joe probably shouldn't do that. Um, so it tends to be usually 4 to 5 sessions a week. I used to rotate 3 days on, 1 off, 3 days on, 1 off, but now it's kind of got to the point where it's almost 2 days on, 1 off, 2 days on, 1 off. And my sessions have actually got better because of that. Uh, cardio, I don't do a huge amount. It's just usually if I can do more walking, that's better. It just means I can burn more calories in the day-to-day, on a day-to-day basis. Nutrition, this is quite interesting because I don't prep any meals anymore. I just can't be arsed.

Oh man, my eating this month, I've ate out every single day.

You've been a proper influencer. Oh my God, I didn't even know these places existed.

Yeah, yeah, I'll give you some recommendations, but I've actually— I've been all right. Like, so in the morning, I had a kitchen for the first week, but the last 3 weeks I haven't had a kitchen. So we do get breakfast included. First of all, we'll talk about how fucking expensive everything is, but we get breakfast included in the hotel. So just get egg whites and fruit every morning, go gym, and then just like shake in a bar, and then I'll eat out like for dinner every day. But so, go on, what's your— what's your day look like?

I have my— obviously delivery here is amazing. Yeah, there's like so many good choices to choose from. So I— what I did was I was like, okay, let's just eat healthy, unprocessed foods. So I was ordering everything, eating on a day-to-day basis, wasn't tracking anything. And I noticed, I was like, I feel like my physique should look better. Yeah. So, and then I asked myself, because obviously I teach— I tell people, you know, you should track your calories if you want to optimize your, your physique. And I was like, fuck, I haven't tracked for a while. Meal. So what I did— this took a bit of time— I built a spreadsheet, all the most common things which I order from Deliveroo. I logged all the meals with all the calories, proteins, carbs, and fats. And then each day as I ordered everything, I would just enter it and I'd watch everything add up. And what I noticed was I was consuming quite a lot of calories, but the ratio was pretty fucked. Like, I probably eating 150 grams of protein. So my protein was low. Yeah. And the carbs, especially the fats, were quite high. So I was like, oh fuck, like I've actually not been hitting my protein targets. Like, no wonder I'm not looking as good as I usually look. So now, especially from Monday to Friday, I make sure to log everything as the day goes on. And I've noticed I'm being a lot more consistent with hitting that 200 grams of protein and just ensuring the fats aren't too high. And being like within a calorie target range, which is like 2,700 to 3,000. To cut on, it's just kind of like maintaining. And then on the weekend, I usually— realistically, I'll probably be eating a little bit more so that it's like there's a, there's a spike at the weekend, there's a little bit of a dip during the week. But I've noticed just by going back to tracking and being more mindful of the, the calories which I'm consuming has allowed me to look better. Yeah, but I never really look bad. I mean, you know, you've known me for a long time. Like, whenever it gets to the point where I start to be not as lean, I'm like, oh yeah, let's sort that out. Yeah, because I don't— you just look better when you're leaner.

It always just takes us, like, because we've been doing for so long, it takes like a week or two, you know. I, I've gotten to the stage where when I started out, I did big bulks and everything when I was like a teenager. I don't think I've gone and bulk in like 5 years.

Yeah, I don't, I don't think there's much point to it.

Like, what do you think of like bulking Would you recommend it?

I mean, for me it's like, what, so my arms can be an inch bigger? Like, who's that? Who the hell's gonna be impressed by that? I've had like women say to me like, just don't get any bigger.

I'm like, yeah, Rob wants you to get bigger.

So I think, uh, I'm not a massive fan of the, uh, the problem when you say bulk, people overeat way too much. If you want to build muscle, you only need to be in like very small, very small surplus, but just do that like throughout the year. And then maybe there's periods of time where you just go back to maintenance or even do like a little bit of a mini cut. Yeah, for most people who are looking to build muscle, especially the youngsters as well, first 5 years, like 70 to 80% of the time you need to be in this energy surplus. But people, as soon as they think, okay, I'm bulking I don't have to track anything, I can eat whatever I want, and it's just way too much of a surplus. And then they get fat, and then they're like, oh, I'm fat now, so now, now I need to cut. And then they restrict themselves in calorie deficit, which is like the worst, uh, you know, putting their body in an environment where it's so difficult for them to build muscle. So they can't build any more muscle, they lose a bit of body fat, and then over time it's like they're not really getting bigger, they just go like fatter, leaner, fatter, leaner, and they just stay like the same size.

Yeah, it's like the, the dips, the pigs and troughs, or whatever it's called. The highs and lows, they're too close together. It's like this instead of like, you know, more kind of just consistently, like consistently in a surplus, like you said, 70 to 80.

Everyone's so impatient. They're like, when? They're like, I want this in like 2 months, 3 months. Like, I don't think at one point in my whole career was I thinking, oh, when am I gonna look like this? Yeah, I just fucking loved it every day.

Yeah, I actually thought I was like sick from the get-go. Yeah, I was like, I got a bicep vein. I was This is unreal. This is all I want.

I remember there was a point in second year university. This is when I was taking my training even more serious. I started making my own meals. I didn't think I'd seen my dad for a couple of months. I remember I went back home, my dad was like, what the fuck, what's going on? Because I'd like, I'd obviously grown quite a bit in a short period of time. And I remember I was in the— when we had like the holiday time from university, I didn't have enough money to join a gym. Um, so we just had like a basic setup in my garage.

Yeah.

And my dad was like, weird guy, always going into the garage for an hour, just like lifting weights.

I remember lifting weights.

I woke up one day with this massive lump on the side of my neck, and my dad was like, see what you're doing? Like, this is from going to the gym. You're pushing yourself too hard. And I was like, fuck it up, maybe I've pulled something. And it went to the doctor and it was mumps.

Father of the Year Award. Are you and are your parents close? Like, when you went back home recently, did you stay with your family, or—

Yeah, yeah, well, this— my mum passed away when I was 11, breast cancer.

I'm sorry to hear that.

My dad's got a new girlfriend now, but he was actually, uh, he had a minor heart attack in January.

What, as in like this January?

So I went back home over Christmas, saw them, everything was good, and then I came back here, and then that, yeah, he'd been taken to hospital. So he'd had like, um, not a full-on one but a minor one. So he's— he'd been in the hospital for 5 weeks. He'd had a triple bypass, so a pretty serious operation but a successful one.

Okay.

So yeah, I went back and saw him and he just obviously come out of hospital, looked pretty, yeah, wiped out. But, um, just made me think, shit, like, I, I don't want to be in a position where I'm— because he's 65, it's not that old.

That's not that old.

I'm like, okay, I don't want to have a heart attack when I'm in my 60s. So I know I was thinking, fuck, is it genetic? Like, do I need to, you know, sort anything out? Because even like I did a blood test, my LDL cholesterol was quite high, and I was like, okay, I need to bring that down. So, um, yeah, it's just, it's, it's weird how fragile life can be. Even, you know, uh, Joe, Joe Linder, Joe, I know. Yeah, it was scary. I was just like, fuck, like, it's you know, it could have been more serious and he could have been gone.

So strange. Like, that, that's a crazy one. I almost forgot about him. Like, that we were actually just messaging, like, just randomly we'd reply to each other's stories and then, like, the next day be like that. And so has that caused you to kind of rethink your training a little bit? Like, I see a lot of people going hybrid, you know. Would you ever do, like, a marathon, an Ironman? Imagine we did it, though. Pretty sick.

I think we What is it? How many kilometers in marathon?

Oh man, the fact that we don't even know that.

Because I did, I did 5K at the end of last year, and that was, uh, I mean, halfway through I was like, oh my God, I'm struggling here. But I think my body would adapt quickly, but I think for sure I would lose a bit of size. Like, I am not an efficient runner. No, my current body composition is not good.

Yeah.

But, um, I think it's, it's just, it's made me think a lot more about really being careful with the foods which I'm consuming.

Okay.

I don't think my training would change a whole lot, but I think maybe like one session a week focused on, uh, cardiovascular health. A bit of, um, doesn't necessarily have to be like super high-intensity interval training, but maybe just circuits or maybe some sort of— I don't know, everyone's doing the HIIT stuff now.

I know. Yeah, I've actually done a few sessions in Marbella and I hate to say it, it's actually pretty fun. Yeah, I actually do like it. Like, I feel, feel healthier afterwards. It shreds me up, definitely. Like, I feel at the end of the week after I do like 3 sessions, I definitely feel leaner. Obviously diet comes into play, and yeah, you just feel kind of like you function a little bit better. Also, I'll give you the connect. There's a guy— it's actually a gym in the marina. It's a Muay Thai gym, like, you know, MMA. And I did one session during the week like got some sick pictures. So yeah, yeah, make me look jacked. But oh my God, afterwards you feel amazing. Like combat sports, be it like boxing, you know, Muay Thai, Muay Thai, however you pronounce it, is just like the ultimate workout. And it kind of has made me realize, especially as we're getting older, I do want to pay a little bit more attention to that. And so you mentioned what food you put in your body there. Are you kind of gone away from the whole if it fits your macros style of things? And yeah, I think that was like it was a trend when we first started that made sense, and it still does. Like, if you've got 200 protein, 60 fat, and 200 carb, you can't even eat a pizza. The pizza is like 65, you know. So like, by— if your macros are set right, you know, by default you're going to eat well. But some people just took the piss with it, and they're just eating Pop-Tarts for the sake of it. So what's your, like, your current day of eating looking like? Is there any foods that you really like, like to include in your diet?

What I, what I try and do is look at like the entire day, and I basically just want to get as much variety into my diet as possible. So a wide selection of vegetables, lots of different colors, proteins, wide selection of proteins. I'm not like against any type of protein. I still like to have red meat, but I also like to have fish. I like my salmon, but then I don't want to just have salmon, you know, I want to have other fish as well. So it's Variety is one thing, and then sticking to as, as much unprocessed foods as I possibly can do. And it's weird because there is— it's actually sometimes quite hard to just have food that hasn't been processed. Yeah, you know, you go to a shop, like, everything is, uh, is pretty heavily processed, even like the protein bars and things like that. As much as I enjoy having a protein bar, like, sometimes, you know, it literally says on the label, if you have too many of these, it'll have like laxative effects. Like, if I have 2 protein bars, I'm gonna be farting all day.

So the room stinks, by the way.

It's a good job there's not a microphone down here. So is it— that's— I mean, when you're in your 20s, I feel like, again, you can get away with it a little bit more, but I feel like your body becomes more sensitive the older it gets. And like, I notice if I just— the other night I went out and I just had, uh, like a load of sushi with the sauces and like these like mini sliders with the bread. It's just like, it's a lot of heavy—

yeah, rich stuff, very rich stuff.

And, uh, yeah, I would just feel like really sluggish afterwards, and even like it affects my quality of sleep. Yeah. So, um, you know, a lot of people, they say, oh, follow the 80/20 rule, which is, you know, it's a decent rule if 80% of the food you're consuming is like very healthy, unprocessed, and then the other 20 doesn't really matter. But I think, as you know, now it's more like 90/10.

Yeah.

And, um, you know, if I'm really trying to beat— like, say for example with Bionic, I've got another blood test coming up in maybe like a week or so. So I'm actually like— I see it as like a game. Like, I want my blood to be as good as possible, so I actually tweak my diet a little bit and cut out like all the bad stuff to try and get a better score.

Yeah. And you do— I know you do it, people in general do it. The Whoop, like, I don't have one. I'm yet to take the plunge. I do like them though. I like the, you know, I've researched them. People will like— I even, like, Louis has before been like, I can't drink tonight because I don't want to mess with my Whoop score, even though I don't know if he pays too much attention to it.

Louis drank so much that his body adapted to that level of alcohol in his body that he was somehow still able to get a high HRV.

It was just the new norm.

Yeah, he would get— when he was living in Ibiza, he would go out, have like 6 pints, wake up like after 9 hours of sleep with like loads of REM and like high HRV. He just like, what the fuck?

It's like 101%.

Yeah, if I do that, I would be like in the red. And like, he actually— he had a break from alcohol and he went back to it. And, uh, yeah, fuck, his sleep was shit.

Wow, that's like withdrawals. And here, this like perfect topic that I want to talk about, and it is the topic of alcohol. So we're talking about how as we get older, you know, food quality affects us. I'll come on after this, this last year. Like, I just turned 32 like 2 weeks ago, and like ever since 31, I was like, no, ever since 30, it's like something hits a switch. Can't do it anymore. Like, I'm dead for— let's say I like go out hard on Saturday, I'm done till like Wednesday or Thursday even. I'm not even, I'm not even exaggerating. And you were actually a big motivation for me to cut it down a lot. So I know you went on a little bit of a journey with that. Do you want to give us your history on drinking, even from like as a as a teen growing up in the UK to, you know, kind of where you're at with it now?

Yeah, so obviously in the UK there's a big drinking culture, and within my group of friends everybody drank. And I think even in my teens, like, it was— we would just go out and drink as much as possible and just do stupid shit in a field. Yeah, and it was like, it was normal and it was very fun. Yeah. Um, and I just remember I was— I don't— I would wake up and I'd be okay. And I would just get on with my day. And this would continue, like, obviously throughout university. That was pretty heavy, especially first year. Fucking hell, like, that was a lot of alcohol. Second and third year tapered down a little bit. And then in Marbella, the season in Marbella, I was probably drinking every single night because it was like free alcohol. Yeah, yeah. And it was like, well, I'm in a club, so I'm gonna drink something. I remember it got to the point where, like, my kidneys were hurting, like, pain in my back.

But you got mumps, the kidneys popping out.

That was, that was probably the, the most that I was drinking, like, in a, a couple month period. And then kind of tapered off it a little bit, obviously, when I started my gym and everything. But I would still— there'd be like one or two times, they're probably like, we go out the weekend and probably get smashed. Yeah, you say on Saturday night. Yeah. And then, um, yeah, for some reason I remember it was like when I kind of moved away from, uh, what I'd be doing, like the online coaching, started traveling more. For some reason, like 2018, I went bit of a bender. That was like— we'll talk about later— the first time we came to Dubai. Yeah, but, um, yeah, and then I guess it was after 30 where the hangovers were just so brutal that I could not do anything. Like, the only thing I could do on a hangover was just lie in the sun. Yeah, like, all willpower would go away, all discipline would go away. Couldn't concentrate on anything, make any big decisions. And then I think as I was getting older, I was like, time— life is short. I don't have enough— I don't have time to waste an entire day. So I need to— I looked at all the things in my life that were holding me back, and like the number one thing in all areas was the alcohol. Which is— it was annoying because I like to go out and I like to get a little bit drunk. Like, it's fun to do. It's a social thing to do. Yeah. But it was just the, the, the reward you get from it. The returns is just like, you have like a couple hours of fun and then you have this whole list of negative side effects.

Yeah, I think also finding something to keep you accountable and responsible is a huge thing. So for example, um, I went out with James Blackwell last night for like dinner. He doesn't drink, but you know, Linda and the other one, because we're having a few, and they're like trying to get me to like, you know, drink. And I was like, no, I have a podcast tomorrow that I'm really excited for. For, that I want to be fresh for. And if I didn't have this today, I'd be like, oh yeah, whatever, you know, let's go. And what really kind of set me straight was, you know, YouTube, I said, or even social media in general. I go, if I'm hungover and I—

you pick up your front-facing camera, I go to Ibiza, I'm like, I'm gonna make a sick Ibiza vlog. And like, after you've been on like big bender, you look into that black hole and you're like, you're so like disappointed and paranoid.

Yeah, literally, like you look at yourself and I'm like, that's not me. Yeah, it's like someone holding up a mirror to go, look at you. But like, I, I get like inflamed. I get like, my head gets all swollen, my eyes get red, and I'm just like, I, I can't even like sell my programs or, or any of the bags.

Be like quick quick. Yeah, mentally quick. And you can't— if you get fucked up, you can't do it.

No, I find one— if I drink even on a Saturday, like, I mess up my words till Tuesday. Yeah, I'm just not as sharp to respond. So that's what turned me off it a lot. So when did you— what year did you kind of switch off a little bit? And how often do you drink now? I feel in the last year or two, obviously we've got a few bad days last year, but very, very frequently compared to what we used to.

I think it was just before I turned 30. I just wanted to do an experiment where I just, I'd go sober for like— it wasn't even supposed to be 6 months, it just kind of happened. And I think that was because, because it was COVID, because I just moved to Dubai. I'd probably had, uh, 2 months of going out a lot and drinking a lot. I like, I looked in the mirror, I was like, for me, I look really bad. Yeah, yeah.

I think it's more of a face thing, you know.

So I was, I, I was like, right, this is cut out the drinking for a month, and then it turned into 2 months, and then 3 months. I was like, okay, let's just drag it out to 6 months. And then what that taught me was that I would have to go out and socialize and be in these environments where it's loud noise, there's, you know, there's lights, there's people. They were the situations where I felt like I needed to drink to make myself feel more comfortable. But now I was like, okay, you can't drink, so you just have to fucking get comfortable.

Yeah.

In these situations. And then after I did that a couple of times, I was like, oh, actually, I don't need alcohol to enjoy this. And then I realized my game was better. Oh no way, to girls. Like, I was actually— I was, I was sharp. I didn't say anything stupid. I was strategic. When I was drunk, I was just like, I've seen some stupid moments.

Yeah, like, when you think about it, you're actually like— I hate this. Have you ever seen a video of yourself drunk?

Yeah.

And you're just like, oh my gosh, it is the most fearful thing. And you're like, that's That's slick. Yeah, yeah, like half is just having something in your hand. Yeah.

So after, after I did that for 6 months, um, obviously it went to Ibiza and lived there for a month. That was the complete opposite. Yeah. But, um, I mean, remember in, in 2020 there wasn't a huge amount to do on Ibiza anyway, so yeah, I had some benders, but it wasn't like every night. No Louis Armstrong.

No.

And then, uh, yeah, just as, as more things came onto my plate, I just— it was just more spaced out. There was the nights out where I would drink a lot and have a party, but it was just— it was more so for special occasions. Yeah. And I think what I started to notice was if I was out and I felt like I've got things to do, I couldn't enjoy the night. So now it's like, okay, I work towards my goals, and if if, if I've had a really good week or a couple of weeks, and I'm like, hey, we can go out, have a bit of fun, but then we're back to it in like 2 days' time.

Yeah, you gotta earn it, or I, I don't even think it's enjoyable. And even last night I was thinking about today, you know, I was like, oh, I'm gonna be on a 4K HD camera, like, you know, they're gonna be zooming in on my pores. So having that does motivate you so much. And do you find it impacts your anxiety a lot, or do you even— does Mike Thurston even get depression and anxiety anymore?

No, I I think, I mean, if, if I'm in an environment of like, if I go to a club, especially a club, because I remember I did this a few times in Ibiza where I would go to a nightclub fully sober, and it is, it's a weird experience. Like, I don't, I don't feel comfortable there, especially when everybody around you is off their face, and it's just like, it's very overwhelming. And then that just made me think, oh, maybe if my sober self doesn't want to be here, then why am I That's a good one. Yeah, so it's maybe I should change my environments. I shouldn't have to force myself to be, you know, like drugged up or drunk just to make a situation or environment more tolerable for me.

Yeah.

So, um, do I still get anxious? Yes. Yeah, sometimes, like especially if it's, uh, you know, if I'm going up and speaking on stage or doing a public event, like I'll get a bit like, you know, fired up or whatever. Ever. But, uh, I think now I just, I really just don't care anymore. Yeah, like, I'm, I'm content with who I am as a person and what I've done. It's like, and I know some people will be like, oh, you're not drinking, oh, why are you boring? And I'm like, oh, so me not drinking is boring? Okay, well, I don't want to hang around.

Yeah, it's just a projection because people feel awkward because they're like, I'm gonna say something ridiculous, I'm gonna start slurring my words. And actually, James had a really good point last night, so I end up having a Coke Zero and he was like, well, if you're having two, that's not even gonna get you drunk. Yeah, you're not gonna be any different, you know. So it's like, what difference does it make if you just have, you know, a Sprite or Coke or whatever? So it's not even going to change. It's just something to hold.

Empty calories.

Yeah.

And I know it's, it's more the, the habit of, like you said, just holding something. That's what you miss. Yeah. Everyone's there holding something, sipping, sipping, sipping.

If you don't have anything, it's kind of like, yeah, yeah, your hands are in your pocket.

Yeah, I don't want be puffing on a cherry vape.

Oh, the worst.

So I would just go to the bar and just get like a, just like a Diet Coke or even just like, um, sparkling water. Yeah, a glass of ice.

On this trip, me and Linda did not go to a single club, and this is the first time in Dubai, especially for a long time, we have not— we didn't even stay out after 12. And I'm like, that is a coming of age, like, you know. And we've had the best trip ever. We had a really good trip.

And so if you, if you go out late in Dubai, or a lot of the places.

It's not a late place anymore.

But even if you're out until— maybe go somewhere till 2 o'clock, traffic, getting home, might not even fall asleep till 4, and then that's like you've lost the morning. And that's like, for me, I get a lot of stuff done in the morning. So that's, again, I try to do as much as possible in the daytime, early evening, and then I'm like, right, well, time of it.

Yeah. And so what is the dating scene like in Dubai? I know you are a private guy with your relationship online. First of all, why are you—

I have 3 wives.

What is it called? A haram? Yeah, that's it. That's, that's the correct term. But you're quite private with your relationship online, even when I know you, you are in a relationship at the time, you still don't post about it. What's the reason for that?

I think I've noticed that it's not always the case, but sometimes when couples are extremely public with that side of their life, their private life, there's a higher chance of the relationship not working out. Yeah, obviously.

Yeah, I know, I know, we've got the receipts now, but I know what you mean.

There's that, and then if anybody wants to try and get to you, like piss you off, like the, the easiest way to do that is to go through your partner. Owner.

Yeah.

And it's almost like it's— of course I'm not gonna be like this for the rest of my life, but I had an experience where I was very public with a relationship once on YouTube, at least.

Yeah, I remember.

And that was like a thing, like everybody knew about it, everyone was invested in this relationship. And then when it ended, everybody was like asking me like, what's going on, what's going on? I had to like, like address it online, like the situation. And I think I'm fine with it because I've got thick skin. Yeah. And I went to Ibiza, so I wasn't like really, you know, I was occupied. But I felt really bad for her because everybody was asking her, what's going on with you and Mike? What's going on with you and Mike? And she's like trying to get over the relationship. Yeah, she's been reminded of me every day. And then there were people like sending her stories of me like on a boat with girls, not even my story, somebody else's story, and be like, hey, look what Mike's doing. Yeah, there's so many like little sneaky weasel guys who just like, you know, they just want to snitch and, you know, try and make themselves look better by talking bad about—

yeah, especially like previous relationships. Exes can come in. Like, uh, you know, I think we've got a few friends who are having trouble with their girlfriend's ex.

Yeah.

And I'm like, what a, what a fucking mess that is. And so what's the dating scene like in, in Dubai? Why?

So I was gonna say, like, so when I, when I'm in a relationship, um, I behave like I'm in a relationship. So I don't follow other girls, I don't like other girls' posts on social media. It's respectful. And there will be, there'll be hints of me with that person. Like, everybody knew I was in a relationship even though I wasn't like, yeah, putting it out there. Because like, if a girl likes you enough, they're going to do their research and they'll be like, hey, this girl is doing all the same things that Mike's doing in the same place. Like, she's in Leeds. Well, there's only one reason why she's gonna be in Leeds. So they're smart enough to figure out, okay, man, Leeds. Yeah. Um, so yeah, the dating scene is— I mean, it's a lot of fun, but it depends what you want. If you want to have a good time, meet loads of women— there's a lot of hot women here, uh, questionable caliber.

Oh yeah, yeah.

You can have— if you, if you're you're young, have status, and have money, you'll have an amazing time. But it's going to be probably difficult for you to find like a genuine good woman who hasn't been corrupted by Dubai.

Yeah, it is a very corruptible place.

Like, um, I was like, not like Dubai is a bad place, but just, yeah, somebody could come here from a small village and then very quickly get accustomed to living the best life. Yeah, they're gonna get bombarded with DMs from guys who have money who are willing to spoil them, and then they can get used to that. And that can almost— they then have these expectations of, you know, what they're used to or they want from a guy. And then it's just kind of like, oh, what? So, you know, this girl's been past two relationships, been going around in private jets. Now I'm with her, I'm like, fuck it, I'll just get private jets now.

Yeah, it's kind of like, um, as well, how could a— let's say a young girl moves to Dubai, she gets like— she's getting bought handbags, jets, How could she say no? Yeah, you know, it's very, very easy to be corrupted. And it's always a funny one, right? You just do the maths, okay? Go into their bio and says London, Dubai. Yeah, all right. Have you any business, uh, any sponsors, links?

Nothing.

It just says London, Dubai.

I don't know, I'd always do this. Like, when I go on dates, I'd always get surprised. Oh, well, what do you do for a living? And they just come up with some sort of weirdest, like, excuses for jobs. I'd be like, Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, I know exactly.

It's always just like property. Yeah, the most vague. And so how do you think you can find a good girl in Dubai, or can you even?

You just have to change where— like, say for example, if you're going out to bars a lot, you go into clubs, you're not going to find good girls there. You're going to find them doing normal things, you know. Probably if they wake up earlier, that's a good sign because they're not going out, they're not partying. And I think I'd even just by observing what they might do on social media. If they're— if they have hobbies and they're working and they're just posting like normal things, that's a good sign. But if they're always, you know, in fancy places, fancy restaurants, out late, you know, with questionable company—

yeah, and that— or even like not posting who they're with. Yeah, so it's just a zoomed in plate.

Yeah, then that's just always like, oh, what well. But there's nothing wrong with it. I think you just need to understand, like, what you're in for, what you're getting yourself into. Yeah. The worst thing you can do is to catch feelings for the wrong person, and then they're gonna fuck you up. But if you look at someone, you're like, okay, yeah, this is someone who I can have fun with, this person, but I'm realistically— I'm not going to take it that far, then okay, that's fine.

Yeah. And so look, me and you are—

we're getting old, bro.

I'm saying, you know, I'm 32. What age are you 33. Okay, all right. Damn, I thought there was a big gap. I need to work my ass off in the next year. But look, we're, uh, we're men going into our 30s. We're in a good place. Do you have any, you know, interest in starting a family soon, settling down? What's your thoughts on that?

I don't know if I can say this.

We can, we can clip it out.

There'll be— yeah, so anyway, um, I definitely want to have kids at some point.

Wait, you haven't kidnap—

no, no, no, no. I don't even know if I can say this. Someone in my family, yeah, is having a kid.

Okay.

And I found this out, uh, literally when I went back to UK. So that was just like, wow. And it made me think like, I can't— I want to have that feeling. But it's, um, having a child or children is, you know, it's a pretty big thing.

Yeah, it's like the biggest thing.

It depends. Okay, so first of all, you want to make sure that you're having children with the right partner. That's maybe the biggest decision you'll ever make in your life. And then you want to be in a situation financially where you can take care of your partner and your children as well. So what I, I'm kind of thinking about now is I really want to go full steam ahead for the next year, 2 years, maybe 3, all career, build the foundations. I mean, I've already built foundations, but more solid foundations where I don't have to worry about, you you know, having— exactly, look after myself fine, but you're gonna look after another 3, 4 people with the same quality of life, okay, that's going to take quite a bit of dough. So I want to be in a situation financially where I can do that. And I want— obviously, and you think about where I want to do it. I want to do it in Dubai, I don't want to do it in Spain, somewhere else. I want to be somewhere where it's a good environment for them, but also where I can have like nannies to help out as well.

Yeah.

Um, and I think if, let's say for example, if I was to have have a kid now, or like 2 kids in a short period of time, there's a lot of things I would have to say no to. And I don't think right now I'm in a position where I want to say no to those things. I'd rather just do all the things which I want to do, say yes to everything, be realistically very selfish, just focus on me. And then once I've done that, it's out my system, I've done what I've needed to do. Then I can be selfless and look after the family.

Yeah, and what you said there kind of just hit me. I'm like, to keep your quality of life for 4 people, you got to work 4 times as hard. We got to do everything we did times 4.

Yeah, yeah.

And so what's your, uh, travel plans? You mentioned Spain. Are you going anywhere else for the rest of the year?

So there is— I want to do Japan.

What? Yeah, that's a random one.

Yeah, it's just always been— because the thing is is there's a lot of places where you can go to that a lot of people go to, and they're all very samey. Like, we're well-traveled men. Yeah, we've been to a lot of places, and it's got to the point now where I want to go somewhere that's like, oh, this is really different, this is going to be a new experience. So Japan has been on number one on the list for a while now, so I'm going to go there with my team, obviously shoot a load of content there. Probably have to do like at least 2 weeks, so I think we're going to do that maybe end of March, early April, and then, um, I imagine in the summer there'll be quite a lot of time spent in Spain, Marbella most likely, because, yep, Marbella is just a place where I can just get into a good routine. The gyms are amazing, climate is like literally the best climate. Yeah, it's better than Ibiza. Yeah, it's like less humid.

Yeah.

And this, like, literally the, the level of tan that I get, it's the reason Mike's moving. Uh, I'll probably have to do a month in the States as well to just— there's all these people I've wanted to link up with in America, but they never really venture out of America.

No, no.

And Dubai is like the other side of the planet. And, uh, I think realistically I just need to go there, just do a tour, meet everyone.

Yeah, you should go to, um, Texas. Christian was asking for you. I'm actually next— not even next month, 2 weeks' time, going to the Grand Caymans for Christian's wedding.

Oh yeah, yeah, that'll be good. I know he's gonna splurge for that.

Oh bro, I literally just got like a custom-made suit here in Dubai that. And so I, I go back to Marbella tomorrow. So this is like the perfect, like the perfect end to the trip. I'll go back to Marbella tomorrow. I have like a 15-day just monk mode, get all this fucking sushi and sliders off me, you know, just dial in. And then we fly. It's such a pain of a journey. It's like Malaga to like Lisbon, New York, and down to Grand Caymans.

But Malaga Airport is so annoying. You can't even fly directly to Dubai. I have to fly to Abu Dhabi.

I'm flying to Portugal tomorrow. Lisbon is my new, my new airport.

Malaga needs to sort out.

Yeah, apparently they are getting direct flights to Dubai. They just got direct flights to Miami and New York in the summer. Yeah, so just in the summer months. But so it's getting better.

But so I have to— should we open up an airport in Marbella?

You know, we actually should, like, you know, just fucking call it Mike and Rob shitty airport. Do you know what, actually, someone— and I was meant to say this at the very beginning of the conversation— someone came to me. They said, you— they're like, you— I'd love to like invest for you and Mike to open it, pretty much a paddle club in Ibiza.

Yeah, for gym.

Yeah, because it needs that. It actually does. It's like lacking like a center. I think they— I saw one opened up. What's the one? It's like, uh, kind of a neon light indoor one. It's nothing—

it's not non-paddle, But you know, Ibiza, it's the seasonality, which probably that's the reason why it's not there already because it's pretty dead. Yeah, but I feel like if it was good enough, there'd be enough people on the island to, to at least visit. But to be honest, I'm at the point now where I just want to open this like unbelievable, like unreal gym. I wouldn't even care if it made money. Like, I want to be in a situation financially where I have so much money I don't care if it doesn't make money. I just want it to be like a centerpiece place for like people like us to train.

Yeah, have you seen Ryan Terry's gym?

Yeah, yeah.

Have you gone to it?

No, no, no, no.

That'd be worth a visit as well. He'd be good to podcast with. And then, so yeah, what I was saying is you should podcast with Christian, um, after he's all honeymooned out of it. And Max would be another great one. But do a little tour of the US, it would be dope. But that's my next travel plans, going there. And then I might like do Miami after that, just on the way back. But yeah, nothing, nothing too much.

I wanted to— Miami was fun.

So story time, we got to finish off with a story time. Okay, so it's me, Max Tuning, and Mike in Miami. First of all, best crew ever.

Yeah, solid crew.

And we're on a night out and we literally, we come back to the Airbnb, Max is face planted onto the floor, Mike has no idea where he's been.

I'm missing.

I'm— Mike is just pure missing. My passport's gone, your wallet's gone, everything is all over the place. And I'm like, my flight is the following day. And I'm like, guys, I think the taxi man stole my passport or something. About 6 hours later, the taxi man drives by the Airbnb, throws my passport out the window, throws at the Airbnb. And I'm like, can I get my wallet back too? And he just drives off. So I was like, I'll take it. I'll take the passport. But look, here's to many more adventures. Today was a blast. Really good way to finish off the trip. Rob Lipsett, great, uh, guest as expected. I bet people are gonna absolutely love this. And thanks so much for your time, Mike. Appreciate it. Put that