GLP-1, Cravings & Food Noise: What Every Woman Needs to Understand

Welcome, Synergy listeners. We are so excited that you are here today with us again. Our conversation today is about freedom, freedom from food noise, from constant cravings, and from the exhausting cycle of restriction and willpower. Joining us today is Sarah Kennedy, CEO of Kella Curve, a global leader in plant-based appetite support. Sarah brings a powerful perspective that you are going to want to hear to the conversation around metabolic health, not as a quick fix, but as a way to restore calm, clarity, and confidence in the body. If you've ever felt like your hunger signals were working against you instead of for you, this episode will challenge the narrative and offer a refreshing and grounded approach to appetite balance and self-connection. We are so happy to have you here, um, Sarah, joining us today. Um, if you don't mind, we always love starting out with what inspired you to lead Kalo Curve, and how was your journey, professional journey, shaped or how has it shaped the way that you think about appetite, health, and women's wellness? And if I'm saying it wrong, please correct me, because I love saying it right every time.

Thanks, Lori. And thanks, Lori and Kelly, for having me on. You know, to be a founder of a company, I think you've got to be inspired by something. It doesn't say, I'm just going to start a company. And for me, you know, and I say this very openly, it was a lifelong love-hate relationship with food, loving it hating it, that constant noise. And I'm sure there are so many people out there, both men and women, who are like that. I think I was on— I was on my first diet when I was 11 years old. And you— this love-hate, you know, I love it but I hate it. I eat it but I don't want to eat it. I binge, you know, the multiple diets, everything throughout my life. So when I was presented this product 7 years ago, it was developed by the New Zealand government. All primary research is done by the New Zealand government. It's just what we do here. And then they got it to a point where they're like, we think we might have something to commercialize, you know, and then it was presented to me. And I had never seen something that had that amount of science, that amount of clinical trialing behind it in all of my career. And my career had been in this nutrition, health, and wellness. And I I said, you know, I want it. And this was, remember, it was long before Wegovy was accepted on the market or launched on the market in 2021. This was 2017. So I said, I want it. And I can truly say to you now, I now am at peace with food. It's quite, yeah, it's fantastic. You know, I can eat, but I no longer hate it. I just don't, I just don't eat as much, you know, and so it's restored that balance for me. And, you know, I probably take Celica once a day now because I intermittent fast because I'm lazy basically. And it means, you know, that, but I take mine at about 9 o'clock in the morning and that gets me through to lunchtime. After lunch, you know, I can walk by those muffins, I can walk by all of those things at mid-morning and, you know, it's great. So it's trained my brain, it's trained my gut-brain axis. So, and then, you know, I would take it again, you know, if I'm going to eat late at night. So I'm going out to dinner and it's going to be late and I know I'm going to be starving. So that to help my hunger, to help my cravings. So yeah, that started the journey 7 years ago, uh, and it's been an incredible journey. But, you know, when Wegovy was approved in 2021, that really, for us, educated the market on the physiology of hunger and weight management.

That's incredible. So I feel like your story is going to resonate with so many, especially women. I think men struggle too, to your point. But I think for women, we're so body aware so early And as our bodies start to change, I think the default was don't eat that cookie, you know, be careful what you're eating, watch what you're eating. But we really weren't taught about how to nourish our gut microbiome in a way that supports GLP-1 production and hunger signaling. And then we're taught as a society just to ignore symptoms. So we're not in touch with how our body feels oftentimes with food.

And It is physiological, and what most people don't realize is that appetite is controlled by your hindbrain, so your thalamus. And, you know, it's an evolutionary, uh, in us because it made us go out and hunt. You know, if you reduce your calories by 25%, your hunger will double over 4 months. It's trying to get you out to hunt, you know. So otherwise, you know, as I always say, we'd be lying in our caves going, Ah, you know what? It's raining. I'm not gonna go out. So this is actually, you know, so it is a primitive evolutionary mechanism that kept us alive. But of course, in this modern world where we're surrounded by food, obviously highly processed, you know, and every time we have that hunger, we go, oh, well, I can do something about it. So it's important to understand the physiology. It's not your fault. If you break a diet, it's not your fault. It is what you eat. I think that is important. You have to choose the right, but that hunger actually kept you alive through evolution.

So Sarah, when someone is always thinking about food, planning it, restricting it, craving it, how do you believe that that impacts their mental space and their emotional energy?

Look, it's that constant noise. And there is no, I'm sure you've seen it, it actually has been published, a simple tick quiz to say what your hunger noise is. And this has actually been verified and published, and we've used it a bit because, you know, you will have some friends, not that many, that go, "No, I forget to eat." You know, I don't know anyone like that, but, you know, there are a few.

Maybe they're lying.

They probably wouldn't have survived through evolution. They'd still be in their cave. Yes, it takes up an enormous amount of space and you're thinking about, when am I going to eat next? What am I gonna eat? Where am I gonna get it from? What is this? And then it might be just that break of, I don't care, I just wanna eat something. And that is one of the key feedbacks we get with Kalikube is, you take the noise from my, you take the noise. So if I can just explain why that happens is, Yeah. As I said, it was developed by the New Zealand government 15 years ago, and it was— they had a grant called Foods— well, a grant was given to a group of very talented scientists who were employed by the government, and it was called Foods for Appetite Control. And they had the hypothesis that they would find a natural plant-based extract that suppressed hunger. Or reduced hunger. And they had that from evolution and the fact in times of famine in the Scottish Highlands, people chewed very, very bitter berries to suppress their hunger. In fact, they say Charles II used to give it to his mistresses to make them lose weight. You know, I mean, typical, isn't it? I bet he didn't take it himself. In the Kalahari Desert, tribesmen will chew very, very bitter cactus before they got hungry. That was the origin of Hoodia. So there was that, and then there was some very early work done on mice with bitter substances. So they had that, they got a $20 million grant. The first grant was $20 million. They did some incredible things, and what they showed was we have taste buds right down through our gastrointestinal tract. And once again, that is an evolutionary protection mechanism, because bitter was associated with toxic, or could be associated with toxic. So you have 25 taste buds on your tongue, and in fact, interesting enough, 4 bitter substances, and they go right through your gastrointestinal tract. So they took 300 gastrointestinal biopsies from humans and showed this right down through the gastrointestinal tract. And at different parts of the tract, they release different hormones. So if you eat something very bitter, you'll spit it out. If you eat something very bitter and it goes to your stomach, you'll probably feel nauseous, 'cause your body is saying, "Don't eat anymore." If it goes to your upper, upper gut, or upper duodenum, so the start of your gastrointestinal tract, it will release your appetite-suppressing hormones, CCK, GLP-1, and PYY. So the three important— and why is it doing that? 'Cause it's trying to signal to you not to eat anymore. So here was this link. So they then, with these biopsies, they grew a model, an enteroendothelial model, that they tested 1,000 different extracts on. So, and literally only 2 worked. One was a potato oxalate, which is great, but it actually is poisonous, so you'd be thin but dead. And the second one was a hop extract. And because they were plant and food research and they bred all the hops in New Zealand, they then tested another 50. So, and then they found the Eureka one. So what it's actually doing is we are stimulating your own gastro, your own appetite suppressing hormones in your gastrointestinal tract to reduce your appetite. And that's why we say feel full faster. So they then took this, they did some work on formulation and everything like that. And they took it into their first human clinical trial. Now, this was a big trial and a very expensive trial because they cannulated or took blood from the subjects, I think, every 20 minutes, and then had to analyse them for the appetite-suppressing hormones. And this is quite involved and, you know, obviously very expensive. But what they found of kallikrein— it didn't even have a name then— was given an hour before an eat till you're full lunch and eat till you're full snack, it increased CCK, which is a very powerful appetite suppressant, by 600%, and GLP-1 by 600%, and PYY by about 200%. So, and it did this over 4 to 5 hours. It had this wonderful graph that shows it above your own endogenous or natural release. And they got We got an average of an 18% reduction in calorie intake. Now, if you compare that to a semaglutide, so like Wegovy, Wegovy gets about 24%, 24-25%. So we are not, we're certainly not a synthetic hormone. We're stimulating your own hormones. We're using an evolutionary mechanism, which was secondary, which kept us alive. Didn't— we didn't eat bitter things. And what we're doing is we're super stimulating those bitter taste receptors. Quite interesting though, as I said, it's an evolutionary mechanism, but as we evolved, plants evolved. And really fascinating by that, because plants make themselves bitter for when they don't want it to be eaten. So if you think of an apple tree, the leaves are quite bitter, but the apple is very juicy because it wants you to eat the apple to spread the seeds. Same as strawberries, same as anything like that. So I always love evolution because we evolve together in there. We don't eat it because we think it could be toxic, but the plants make it like that. So yeah, it's so fascinating. So that was the first, and that is when it was presented to me, and I was like, wow, this is extraordinary. And since that time, we've gone on and done 3 more human clinicals and shown some fantastic, you know, reduction in craving, reduction in hunger. And we've just unblinded our 4th human clinical, which was a long-term 150 patients, men and women, over 6 months.

So when we think about taking something like Calicurb, it's a short-acting GLP-1 stimulant, correct? Correct. Versus taking something like a GLP-1 injection that's a long-acting and that is synthetic. So I've seen a few patients that have been on the GLP-1s and they come off and they tell me their hunger is just like— they didn't really have hunger before, they had the food noise before but not true hunger, and they're saying that the hunger is just unrelenting.

Well, what of course has happened, whenever you take a synthetic hormone, whenever you have it, you suppress your own natural release. Because, you know, I always say it's a bit like, you know, your own natural hormones go on holiday. They're like, yeah, we're off on holiday now, we don't need to do anything. So when you have a synthetic hormone, particularly at that very high level, you are saturating your receptors, but you're also suppressing your own endogenous or natural release. So when you come off, your hunger is going to be unbelievable because nothing is telling you to stop. These are your natural hormones which naturally say, hey, you should stop eating. And that happens about 45 minutes to an hour after you eat, yeah. And your, your digester goes into your digestive tract, and that's when you're stimulating the natural release. And of course, if you're not having those, no one's telling you to stop eating. And so there's wonderful feedback loop in our body, this brain, you know, they talk about brain-gut. We've suppressed that, we've completely. So I say to people, it's not an if when you come off an injectable, it's a must to take Kalicur because you are going to restimulate, we will restimulate that gut-brain axis. And so you will have that safety net. So when we say short-acting, we last for 4 to 6 hours, um, and we work with the body. So you look at these wonderful graphs, you know, we literally just super stimulate that release. A synthetic will last for 7 days. So of course it's a very high level when you inject it, and then it goes down as it gets broken down over the 7 days. So most of the gastrointestinal issues happen, you know, in the first 1 to 2 days because, of course, it's a very, very high level and your body's saying, "Wow, you know, this is very high and I've got an upset stomach." So we often talk about that whole—

the difference between fullness and satiety being very different, right? So, and satiety being satisfied, you know, after a meal, not wanting and craving for more things. Which is oftentimes what drives most people just crazy. So, and that relationship to leptin as a hormone and ghrelin, right? So I was just wondering if you have found there to be an improvement in leptin sensitivity, um, with the use of KelloCurb at all?

Well, we do know we upregulate the receptors. Okay, so we improve, and I try And say the receptors are like little muscles. Well, they sit in your L cells, right? And because we're exercising them, we're upregulating them. And I unfortunately can't give you the results of the fourth human clinical because it's gone in for publication and I can't, but the results are, and remember that was 6 months with a 3-month follow-up, the results are stunning. We are absolutely delighted by them, but I'm not allowed to say anything. Death threats if I say anything. And, but so we are improving your gut-brain axis, and I think that's important to remember. We're not suppressing, we're upregulating. And as you get older, you know, your gut-brain access does decrease. I mean, that's just a natural aging. And of course, the lifestyle we live, you know, ultra-processed foods, we eat too fast, you know, there's a whole lot of things, and it's just aging. So yeah, you want to upregulate that gut-brain axis. Yes.

And you know, my question around that was we do see a lot of leptin resistance years before we see insulin resistance. And right, so I do believe that this would be something that people would be able to utilize. Now, of course, I'm kind of extrapolating here, but, um, utilize to improve that leptin sensitivity to future, hopefully reduce risk of diabetes, blood sugar disorder.

Totally. You know, the thing is, as you talk about, you know, that the whole physiology of it, so many people use it, you know, A, for weight management, you know, which is really important. But the other thing is, you know, I love it because you can come in and out of it. You know, like once you get your dose, once you know, remember we don't escalate the dose at all. Once you know your dose is you can go, "Oh, you know, I'm fine. I'm absolutely fine." But if you're going on a holiday, let's say Thanksgiving or something like that, I'm gonna be surrounded by food all the time. I'm just gonna eat a little bit less. I'm still wanting to eat, but I'm gonna take that noise out of my head. So the wonderful thing is, as you said, you know, I mean, I use it just for maintenance. I don't use it to lose weight. I use it for maintenance. But, you know, I will, as I said, use it more if I say I'm traveling. You know, that's a huge one. You're surrounded by, you know, airport foods and airports and all of those things, and you think, oh, if I don't eat now, I won't be able to eat. What am I going to do? Just help you to make healthier choices.

So we think about aging. You said it's just aging. I was like, darn it. So as we see hormonal shifting, say the perimenopausal phase, you know, we start seeing muscle mass loss, we start seeing mid-abdominal weight gain. Um, we lose about 3% of our lean body mass a year if we're not careful, right? And so with the introduction of these GLP-1s, we're seeing a lot of muscle loss in someone that's not being diet diligent. So as we cut calories, if we're taking something that is suppressing the appetite, um, are we seeing muscle loss on Calicurbs?

That's— I can't tell you.

That's another study that hasn't been published.

We'll have to bring you back for all of that.

Oh my God, yes, please, please. It literally has just gone into publication. As I said, I would be killed. The results are stunning. The results are absolutely stunning. So in everything you're asking me, but it has gone in for publication. We hope it'll be by the end of April, it'll be published. But you are right, you are seeing, and it's not just in perimenopausal women, you are seeing between 20 to 40% of lean muscle mass loss with the injectables. And I can't hypothesize, but, you know, I think some of it is what we eat, so we're eating less protein, but I think there might be some more, because remember, when you're taking that you are suppressing your other appetite, your natural ones, and I think there's something happening in there. So if you are losing between 20 to 40, the way to try and combat some of that is to up your protein, which I think for a woman growing older, women and men growing older, you should do all the time anyway. And then the thing is, because, you know, when you don't feel like heavy protein or protein snacks, So you just gotta get it with that. Yeah, so you are getting a lot of lean body mass and keep up strength training.

So when I first implemented Kelly Curb, I was an early adopter, I would say, of integrating it into the practice. And as with everything, you know, I address, and Kelly is too this way, very, skeptical, of course, and, um, you know, trying a little bit at a time with specific clients that we work with. And when I first implemented it, the challenge I faced was not really understanding the dosing and the variability of dosing. So I would love for you to speak to that because there might be other people listening that tried it and didn't get a result, and it may be because it wasn't done properly. So let's talk about that, if you don't mind.

No, not at all. You know, and I'll go back to, um, those bitter taste receptors from 1 to 25, right? So, um, everyone has them, but around 90 to 92% of people have between 1 and 19, and then we get the supertasters that have between 1 and 25. So that's why we have an onboarding dose. So take 1 a day for 2 days, then 2 a day for 2 days, and then ramp it up over 5 days. Around 5 to 7% of people will be what we call supertasters. So they should just stay on the 1 capsule. So if it's a 1, they should just stay on that 1 because the supertasters, I always say to them, hey, you would have survived through evolution but you know, and then in the upper end, think of it as a bell curve, 90% of people sit in the middle and they are good with the 250 mg dose, absolutely works, and then you might get that top 5% where they might need a little bit more. So it is physiological, you know, this is not an act of God, it is a physiological product and it is doing that, so it's just finding that dose. You 90% of people will be on the 250, so the 2 capsules. The only side effect is a laxative, right? So if you are that super taster, an hour after you've taken it, you will have a soften stool. That's it. One and done, right? And you're like, okay, it will go. Your body will get used to that super release. And then maybe at that top 5%, you may need to take, you know, 3 capsules, but it's in between that. So as I always say, just that's what that first week onboarding is, and that first 2 to 3 days with a laxative effect, you know, it will go. But, you know, if you're a super taster, you know, you're lucky, just stay with the 1 capsule. Is that what you experienced, Lori?

Yes. So I had people that didn't respond. They didn't have side effects, they just didn't respond. And I wasn't quite sure whether I needed to step up and how much. And the other thing is, is that I— the population that I treat, and I would be curious to understand this a little bit better, is I live in the number one retirement community in the entire United States. So my average client is right now, I would say, 60s and up. And up. I mean, my oldest client is in their 90s.

Wow.

And there are chronic conditions, I'm just curious, that also affect taste. And I'm just wondering if that also is a piece of the equation too.

Absolutely. As I said, as we age, you know, your gut-brain axis does decrease. So I would up the dose of it to, you know, to 3 capsules. When you'll find if, um, and then over time they've probably, they've upregulated those receptors, so you can probably bring it back down. So, you know, yes, absolutely. And as I said to you, it's incredibly safe because we have human bioavailability data that's just been published, but we have focused absolutely on the gastrointestinal tract. So less than 1% is absorbed in the bloodstream. So that's the amarasate, that's the bitter extract, is absorbed bloodstream, and of that 1%, 0.1% is metabolized in the liver. So absolutely safe with other drugs, and I think that's important because, you know, as you know, all drugs are— or just about all drugs are metabolized in the liver, and of course we're not doing anything in the liver. We literally are focused on the gastrointestinal tract, and we're degraded, you know, in the colon and literally out within 20 hours. So, and I love the way Lori, and you know, it's perfectly natural to go, I was skeptical. And, you know, and of course, you know, this is what we face all the time. But, you know, all I can say is that $30 million now in research on that one ingredient over 15 years. And these are all published papers. So in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Nutrients, Obesity Pillars, you know, these are all published papers. Explaining the mechanism. And in fact, there is a drug that is using the same mode of action, and they're in their— I think they're in their phase 2 clinicals. So a drug is imitating what we're doing, but it's still using synthetic molecules where we're using something— well, we're using a natural extract to do it.

And in a normal dose of skepticism, I mean, I would like to say we get paid to be that way, right? We really do.

Absolutely.

Our clients rely on that because we are going to do that. You know, that's, that's what we all should be doing. That's what we teach them to do. I mean, there's so many people out there influencing based on not hard data, not real science, not practicality, not, not truth. And so, yeah, I mean, I, I think that we need to be that way. And I love that I was, I was provided the opportunity to do that years ago when you guys first came out. And I could, I could give that a try and I could begin to look at it. And now you have so much more coming out now. So, and then now we have you here because we can challenge you with all of these awesome questions that I'm sure other people are asking.

I'll always remember when I first took Karakirp. I was out, I had some early capsules, so some test capsules, and I was out at dinner with a group of women and I'm sort of giving them out over the table. I look like a drug dealer. We didn't even have a name then. And we were sitting around, you know, being in New Zealand, we'd shared a slow-cooked shoulder of lamb and, you know, I'd taken the capsules and normally, you know, you finish eating, but I would have picked at, you know, the things, you know, and that's a typical thing. And, you know, I sat back and I thought, I'm full, I am full. So, you know, it was just that blinding sort of recognition that, you know, I was full and I didn't need to eat anymore.

I love that. So when we think about those bitter taste buds that you were talking about, I'm just fascinated. There was a test, Lori Esarey MS, you and I used to do with Pathway Fit that reported bitter— it was a genetic test that reported bitter tasting. And I just remember that being one of the biomarkers that we actually looked at and didn't really have relevance to why that was important, right? That didn't make— okay, they taste bitter, but it's interesting that that correlates to how they respond, dose effect of the calorie. Really, really interesting because there is such a variation.

Yeah, I find it fascinating. We have 1 to 25 taste receptors for bitter. We only have, I think it's 1 to 4 for sweet. So, you know, and this once again, you know, a lot of evolution comes back to, I'm going to protect you against something toxic. But of course, something sweet, was, you know, giving you carbohydrate, giving you something, giving you energy for the body. So we don't need to protect you against that. So look at these different taste receptors with it. So, you know, physiology. And when you talk, you know, with aging, and I find it quite fascinating, as I talk to you, there's a little hindbrain there, the thalamus, and then you have the forebrain over top. And, you know, there's a forebrain and we go, "No, I've got willpower. I don't need to do this. I can rationalize not eating." you put hormones, you put stress, you put lack of sleep, you put alcohol, you put anything there and that forebrain comes falling off and then you're off. And I always say to people, how many times have you eaten hot chips late at night, you know, after you've been, after you've had alcohol? You know, it's like your little forebrain says, "Ooh," and your hindbrain goes, "Wee, we're off." You know, and that's what I love it, you know, you talked about, you know, with postmenopausal or perimenopausal, of course, there's so many fluctuations of hormones in there. I mean, that's really gonna screw with your brain on that. And to make it worse, you know, as you would know, in menopause, you actually have to eat 200 calories less a day just to stay the same size because your metabolism has slowed. So, you know, how can we help you do that? And how can we help you make healthy choices? In women that are still menstruating, in that luteal phase, you know, the one that we call PMS, women will eat on average 200 calories more during that week, and some will eat up to 600 calories. At least, and that's at PMS. And of course it's natural because your body is trying to get that energy in case you implant that egg. So everything is natural, it's trying to get food. But of course, you know, we're not wanting to implant an egg every cycle. So I say to women, hey, in PMS it's not going to help your mood, you're still going to want to rip someone's head off. However, it will help you with the eating.

So, you know, amazing biology, right? It's amazing biology. And the thing is, is that 200 extra calories up to, you know, whatever, which is usually more than that. I think that that was a very kind number. It's certainly not nutrient dense. And that's what makes it even worse. It's comfort foods and sugar, as you said. So they're getting more calories and not wise nutrients at all. And then the bellies—

Lori Esarey is telling them that because, you know, they may be implanting— they want to get that. And of course, when we are surrounded by highly palatable food, as you said, it's going to be comfort food. So it's not going to change your mood, but it's going to help you with the eating. So this is what I'm saying. I'm not sure if you realize originally very early on in my career. I was a veterinarian and I, um, and I practiced as a vet and then I went into nutrition. But, you know, it's so, it's so interesting with animals because, you know, obviously, um, we have a greater forebrain, but, you know, animals will follow their physiological, um, hormonal pathways and, you know, and react far more to them. So yeah, and We need to explain that to patients and humans that, you know, we are— we have these incredible biological or physiological pathways, you know, that evolved us. And we then just happened to get this larger frontal lobe, which allowed us to make— which made us say, "Hey, I've got willpower." But really, you know, you don't have willpower when you're driven by your hindbrain. Well, you might for a short amount of time, but, you know, put anything over it and you're going to have problems.

So you've mentioned mood a few times, so I want to go back to the mood. Obviously, this is a hops formula. So is there any effect on mood or calmness?

No, we, no, we take out, we, we extract it by supercritical extraction. So by CO2 supercritical. So we literally take out all the biological matter and all the phytoestrogens as well, because we often get asked, does it have estrogenic properties, you know, calming properties? But no, we're literally left with the alpha and beta beta acids in a certain ratio and a tiny amount of essential oils. So if people do get a reflux at all, it's like a beer burp. And so men don't mind it at all. It's like just, you know, having that, you know, 'I haven't drunk a beer.' But that's the essential. So no, no, no with that. But we do get a lot of people saying, because, or quite a few people saying, your appetite centre sits next to your addictive centres. So we get some people saying to Oh, I'm, you know, I don't feel like wine anymore. I don't want to drink anymore. So, you know, we believe a bit like what the GLP— well, we are, we're just super stimulating your own GLP-1. But remember, we're a triple hormone activator. So we release CCK, and that's important because CCK also squeezes the gallbladder. You would've seen some of the side effects of the GLP-1 is you get stasis of the gallbladder, 'cause you're getting more stasis of the stomach, and you can be— it can give gallstones because of that, predicted to that. So we squeeze that. So gastroenterologists actually love us for that CCK. That's the first thing that happens. Then we go down, and then there's GLP-1, which we all know is the appetite suppressing. And then laterally in the lower part of the gastrointestinal tract is PYY. So we're actually a triple— a triple hormone activator. And in fact, we're stimulating that L cell, so we also stimulate GLP-2. And no one talks about GLP-2, but that's for gut integrity. So we're helping that gut integrity. It's very, very good for the mucosa of the gut.

Well, that is absolutely fascinating that more than just curbing appetite and lowering food noise and giving you sense of freedom, it does so much to actually repair the body as well.

And I can't wait to come back on and tell you about the Fourth Human clinical. I raised probably— I raised $4 million 3 years ago for this clinical. So, you know, because it was 6 months, 150 people, it was a very low-intervention trial, but they were only seen once a month. But, you know, they were— all their body composition was done, DEXAs and everything like that. So I've been saying for 3 years, yeah, no, we're doing a long-term study, we're doing this, yes, we're doing this. But then it was unblinded in November, and so you can imagine I was like a cat on a hot tin roof. I'm like, oh my God. But anyway, yeah, very, very amazing. So I'm, I'm over the moon about it.

Can we speak to the difference of the, um, direct-to-consumer version and the professional version of of the CalaCurb, would that be okay to talk about?

Yeah, sure. So the CalaCurb, the direct-to-consumer, is a 125mg, so it's a smaller capsule. Um, you take 2 of those, um, you know, that's the, the dose. The, the CalaCurb clinical, which is practitioner only, is a 250mg, and you only take 1 of those. And you're kind of saying, well, you know, they're both the same dosage. Well, they're actually not. Remember we work only on the gastrointestinal tract. And when you— I kind of relate it to people, if I throw two little stones at you, you're gonna feel it. But if I throw a big stone at you, you're gonna feel it more. So, and as this bigger bolus goes down the gastrointestinal tract, it's hitting more receptors. So, and we really only want that to be with practitioners because we feel you need the guidance of a practitioner with that. With it. You know, we always say we are a tool in the toolkit. You know, we would really like it if you have a practitioner over you, 'cause you wanna talk about nutrition, you wanna talk about time, you wanna talk about whole, you wanna talk about strength training, you wanna talk about a number of other things that you could be looking at with this. You know, what else are you doing? You know, are you looking at magnesium? You know, are you looking at creatinine? Are you looking at protein? And this is what, what I believe a practitioner can do and give good advice and trained advice versus, you know, doing it by yourself or listening to a few things. So absolutely, they are different and one is stronger than the other, and we would only ever select practitioners.

And we are grateful for your position as a company recognizing that because it is just— it's a— I don't want to even say just, because it's not just a tool in the toolkit. It's a really awesome tool that we have in the toolkit. And we do need to, to judiciously use and at the same time make sure that the timing is right and the combinations of other things, the levers that we're pulling at the different times that we're pulling them. And so I'm excited to have that dosing and I'm excited to also the way that that it's delivered, it's also delivered in a kit that also we can use to titrate up all in one, right?

Yeah. So I mean, it's a fantastic product. And I will say all the clinicals have been done on placebo, low dose, high dose. So that is for the practitioner is the high dose. And I, I'm unashamed about that. I only want it with a practitioner. Yes, this will work, you know, direct to consumer, but this is a stronger dose and it needs to be with a practitioner.

Are there any absolute contraindications that you have, that you have, that you would, you would say about this product? Anyone that you absolutely would not use it in?

Any inflammatory bowel disease, any inflammatory gut disease. I'm just saying, you know, you are activating these super, that, you know, you're super stimulating them. If you, if your gut's that's, you know, inflamed, you don't wanna do anything. You just wanna try and calm it down. So, you know, absolutely that I'd say, just calm it down.

So you're speaking of active ulcerative colitis, active Crohn's, active diverticulitis. You know, we have the luxury of, again, as practitioners, utilizing tools in the toolbox and diagnostics to understand through markers like Calprotectin, lactoferrin, lysozyme, and others, what degree of IBD a person is at. And we always start with a foundation, always, anyway, because you're going to get a better outcome if you keep the foundation the foundation and you work on that first, right? Gut health is first.

Totally and utterly, you're 100% right. We are going to upregulate those receptors, we're going to help that gut-brain axis, but if, if, if it's all wrong to start sort of, you know, get it right and then look to that. And, you know, if you've got any of those things, you've got, you know, you, you are— your body is under stress anyway.

That's right. And for our listeners, you know, you make your own GLP-1 in your gut. And so we have an abundance of it typically when we're younger. And the things that we do with our lifestyle, as Sarah was mentioning— lack of sleep, stress response, poor quality diet— all of those things hinder. And then comes along menopause, perimenopause, right, where estrogen starts playing a part and we start seeing even more challenges. So it's a real struggle, I think, for that age group particularly and for that gender particularly. It's a big significant time where we see things change. We see the tools that we used to use not work anymore. So if this is you listening, just lean in and know that working on the foundation is extremely important. And these are tools that we're talking about. It's a tool that can be available to you to use as part of a treatment plan. But we always want to make sure we're working on that foundation.

Yeah. And you're right. You're right. You know, like so many times I've talked to women and they're like, you know, I was fine. I was absolutely fine. My diet, everything. And then suddenly it changed. You know, I just— it changed. I started putting weight on in my middle. I did this and all the rest. And yes, it is all those hormones. So it's just like, what happened? I have to change what I do. And yes, you do. And you know, it is a part of us aging. You know, I always say look on the bright side. There's a whole lot of bright sides.

There is a bright side, right? We now have the availability to test our hormones. To take some really nice supplemental bioidentical hormone replacement therapy that can really even things out for us. And with the, with the knowledge of how does the foundation affect us, you know, Lori and I both use Oura Rings in our practice for biometric tracking so we can see, you know, how are they adapted to stress, what is their sleep pattern like, you know, how are they, how are they really functioning from a metabolic standpoint. In addition to all the other tests that we do, I think having the wearables really help us navigate that better.

You guys are amazing. We don't have quite that sophistication here in New Zealand, unfortunately, with integrated medicine. And it does make me grumpy because, you know, a lot of it is like, oh, it's just natural, just get on with it. And there is so much more that you can do and assist with. And it does make me grumpy in New Zealand. It's like, no, you know, you just got to, you know, restrict your diet and do things like that. And no, that is not the only answer.

I'm so glad you brought that up because I do think sometimes we take for granted the amazing things we have access to in the US.

Oh yes, you do.

We just do.

Well, I'm just constantly impressed by it. I mean, we just had someone the other day here in New Zealand who had, you know, put on a lot of weight through perimenopause, went to see a nutritionist, and it was that old school, you just cut back on everything. And, you know, it's just, you know, it's willpower, and it's not about just willpower. And it just was like, what age are we in? You know, let's look at some other tools to help you.

And what message are we sending, right? It's almost like it's your fault.

—Exactly.

Well, and a lot of women take that on, right? They do believe it is their fault. And I hear that every week from patients coming in, you know, if I could just do better, I know what to do, I just can't do better. And that makes me sad for them, right?

I agree with you. So it makes me very grumpy. So, you know, I think it's fantastic. Well, first of all, that we're talking more about it. You know, people say to me, you know, how do I feel about the synthetic? You know, GLP-1s. And I literally get down on my knees and pray to Novo Nordisk. They spent $1 billion in that year that they launched and educating about the physiology of weight management, you know. And up to then, I still don't think people really understand that we're just, you know, supplementing their own GLP-1. But before that, it was just willpower, diet, and exercise. And now, you know, this— they literally, you know, for good or bad, it's become a household word, and that is great, about it's not just willpower. There is a combination of so many factors.

And we have an obligation and a privilege as well to stand together. And Kelly and I talk about this a lot as practitioners that are out there being asked, you know, is, is this right for me? And helping people navigate make those decisions, but it is a tool we have in the toolbox, and that's a beautiful thing. But the reality is, is there are other tools in the toolbox too. There are risks to every decision and benefits to every decision. Come alongside of a qualified healthcare practitioner that can help you make the decisions that are right for you, your biology. And kind of, you know, get back to that whole— it's, it's not your fault. You know, the food industry here, um, you know, you guys have pure you know, pure meat. You— I mean, other things like there's purity in some of your food. We, we don't have that, right? So, you know, there are some things that, that are very different that are a blessing, but we as practitioners really do have to hold that, that, that level high even to our peers.

Yes, yes, absolutely. And, you know, I will keep going back, um, you know, it's not your fault, but I'll keep going back. If if, you know, they have been using a synthetic, um, absolutely, you absolutely need to reactivate that gut-brain axis. I mean, as the weight will just come back on. Yeah.

And a way to do that is one of the ways that you just mentioned today. Like, you've offered a solution in this product.

Yeah, absolutely. And we have, you know, and re— and it doesn't mean you have to be on Canacur for life. You know, you don't have to be on Kalicube for life because I said what we're doing is helping you upregulate. You can come off it, but, you know, go in and out. If you're thinking you need a little bit of help, you know, you're going on a cruise, you know, you're going, you know, to something like that, you know, just come in and out of it.

So as we're wrapping up today, we want to ask you a question to end with. So we know that you're a busy lady. You're traveling, you know, internationally. Quite often, you're running a company. What are the things that help you stay grounded?

Look, a number of things. I think a huge thing for me, and I touch wood about it every day, is sleep. I love sleep. And, you know, I just— it's huge. So sleep, I think, is a panacea. It's restorative to your body. All the time. So sleep, I try and get that as much as possible. And I hate saying that because some people really struggle with sleep and it's like, oh, I can't believe it. But I do love that. The other thing as you get older, I will always say is protein, protein, protein, you know, and whey and good protein if you can. And if you're finding it hard to get into protein, just get a good whey protein and, you know, use You know, just we, you know, as you said, we will lose about 2% of muscle loss a year just naturally. So you want to be keeping that protein up to help that and, you know, do some strength training. You know, it's not like, you know, we used to when we were younger, we ran and did all of these things like that. It's not that anymore. It's strength training. Keep exercising. You know, I said we exercise the little L cells. Keep exercising your other muscles as well.

Yeah, so the right tool at the right time, right? You mentioned we used to run, we used to do all these things in our 30s and 40s. That doesn't work so well beyond, and we have to shift gears and recognize that we're in a different stage and our body needs different things to maintain that muscle mass, protect our stress response, and live our best life. And we do. And we do, right? That's right.

Yes, lots of tools. Well, thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to share what you have, and thank you for being a pioneer. Um, that whole story of converting from veterinarian medicine into the health and wellness space, I feel like, um, that was a pretty cool fun fact that I did not know. So that's right. Yeah. So thanks for sharing that too. And I look forward to future conversations because we're just going to have to circle back because data is data and we have to let you have a platform to share it. So—

Oh my God, are you just— Yeah, absolutely. 3 months. I just cannot wait.

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