Tax Season Survival Tips

Welcome to Accountants Law Pod, where accounting professionals and law firms converge, hosted by Lynda Artesani, Sarah Prevost, and Steven Libhart.

I wanted to ask you all what your thoughts are with current tax season and the fires.

That's all going to get pushed. It has to.

It's got to, right?

Yeah.

How do you think that'll get pushed? Do you have to be a victim of the fires, or will they just push the whole— probably just the—

Oh, no, it won't be for us. I think it's the region, the California. Won't be us. But I imagine all those people, they lost all their— if they were paper-centric firm, hey, this is a reason not to be. But you're looking at documents, right? I mean, we had documents that— Mike had documents that were on the floor, and they got flooded away. Things that were—

Flood. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's—

yeah, but I'm just curious because it consumes our whole lives right now. Right. The sadness.

The floods were nothing compared to what these people have lost.

Exactly. Yeah. It's just hard. Like, in the insurance conversation and all of these things that are— but I just was curious because I know, like, we could talk about our weekends, but ultimately, I feel like it really— this will be aired at a later date. But we are in the times right now where this is all going on.

Let's just hope the fires are out by the time this airs because this is like—

yes.

It's the saddest thing to see in people's lives. I just, I know what it was like for the hurricane, and I know that nothing compared to what they, they're experiencing, really. I mean, I've seen some video footage on Instagram and people videoing, like, seeing the fire coming up over the ridge and then trying to save their homes and do whatever they can.

On the news this morning, they had a reporter interviewing this couple who lost their home. And the lady was talking about how an aunt or somebody had just given her a diamond and she was saving money to have it made into a diamond ring. And so the reporter's able to get into the neighborhood. So the reporters went, the reporter went and found their home and it wasn't burned down. And they told her, she's on the phone with them and they said, we didn't even get to lock the door. And so she went into their house and they said, can you get our grandma's medicine please? Because grandma doesn't have her medicine. And she got the medicine and all this stuff.

Yeah.

And then she grabbed photos from the house to take it to them.

Yeah.

And it was so emotional. I was just, I was just in tears this morning over that. And then did you read about the insurance in California, the FAIR insurance? So, so many insurance companies had already pulled out of California because of the fire danger. The state of California put an insurance law in effect called FAIR, F-A-I-R, and this has devastated their funds. They— there's nothing left.

I don't see how you can budget for that.

Yeah, how could you?

I mean, the federal government has to help. They're going to have to. Our friends over, Blake and David, spoke about this last week on the funds themselves. But I'll be honest with you, Lynda, you said it just the time that I, years ago, when you were going through it and hearing your voice and the concern. And I'm thinking in my mind of our friends. And then last on Saturday, my uncle calls and our family members got evacuated. I didn't realize where they were. And are they okay? They're— from the sounds of it, they're fine. But I, I just— it just— my— your mind just starts going, right? And, and then you're just total outcry for everybody. So, and it just— that, that voice on the phone, I felt like I got flashback to when I was talking to Linda, and she's like, there's fish in my kitchen. And I'm like, what the—

Yeah, it's still not the same, though, because I still have structure to come back to. I have business to come back to. I mobilized my business and moved it elsewhere where a lot of these people, they just have nothing. You have in your home, they have nothing. They might have no school, they might have no livelihood or business. I mean, it's heartbreaking. And I saw a video of a fireman that went in and rescued a kitten, and the guy just collapsed on his knees. He said, I don't care about anything else but this. You think about all the animals. It's just horrific. That area will never be the same. People's lives will be forever. I mean, they have fires all the time. And the fact that you're going to have PTSD, I have it with the hurricanes, so I can't imagine the sound of the wind and all of that.

And the smell of fires. I will say, being in Oregon, and we've had some massive fires, I've had myself been Kind of like, unfortunately, I'm not— campfires are really hard for me sometimes, just the smell of it, because we had some bad ones. Thankfully not endangered us. I mean, it was at some point you questioned it, but it's not to— just to say that our hearts are with you all. And yes, we— I mean, I know that we could probably post links like everyone is, the credible links of where to go to help if you want to volunteer and send money. We could probably do that as well.

Mariette actually posted some really good links this morning.

She's been—

posting. Martinez has been posting some really great links. I got one of them so I can follow everything that's going on in his area because it also heads that way. And anybody else you can think of? Because California is such a big state, it's like, who do I need to be concerned with? Seth. I thought of Seth because I heard Burbank and kind of like that panic. I was like, is he going to be okay?

Well, my sister lives in the LA area, and I called her last week and I'm like, please tell me you're okay. And they live down by Disneyland. And she said, we're okay down here, but, you know.

Yeah.

Yeah. But, uh, we, uh, donated to the Colorado Pet Pantry over the weekend, which in our area of the country is, is gathering donations for food for the pets out there that are being rescued.

Oh, good. Oh, good.

I mean, they lost everything, like clothes, everything. You don't think about it because that happened here too. Like, things just are gone. Like, the closet got flooded, all the clothes are gone. And the same there, they really have nothing. Like, I had stuff that was up high on the shelves. They have nothing.

Yeah, yeah, I know, because it's a fire. But well, I just, I figured I'd, we'd start with that because I wanted to recognize, and I know that's great. Yeah, we do have a topic today. Our, our topic today is tax season survival tips. So welcome back, everyone. Um, we're gonna talk about what we're in, about the fire season. It feels like a fire.

It does.

It's always this year that feels very Really rushed. I feel like we blink and before we know it, it's March and April, and it's just wild time for us. But there are some things that we could do to help.

Well, I think we're in better shape this year at the Proper Trust because we prepared and planned much better this year than we did last year. I don't know about— you ask me in 2 weeks if that's still the case, but I do feel like we're in control and we have definitely Change the way we approach things. So no longer are we taking a passive space of, you know, the client waits till the last minute. Nope, there's an extra charge if you're going to do that to us because we cannot pull resources off of regularly paying clients.

Exactly.

Because you couldn't get us what we needed. And that's the key because that's what happens for the, for the most part. And then of course we rush, rush, rush, and they put the pressure on us, which hasn't really happened this year as bad as last year. Last year, like, they were like all over it on the 2nd of January.

Yeah.

Seems to be a little bit different and quieter maybe because the dates were different. We didn't actually all go back to work till the 6th. I don't know. Maybe just my perception, but I haven't had that.

I don't think you're wrong in that, Linda. I really do think the way that the calendar fell, and I also feel that the further we get away from the harder segment of times that we've been through in those, those 4 years, things are shifting. I do feel people are a lot more cognizant of different offerings now.

How to work with you and how to work with you.

Yep. People are a little bit more in the now, you know, They may not be all organized, and that's okay, like, but they're, they're getting better at it. Also, the big change too is that the IRS has, uh, if you qualify for it, you can file directly on their site. Well, I'd be curious how that's gonna go.

Yeah.

Because you really have to be organized. And I honestly, I mean, I've— back in the day, I did my own taxes way back in the day, and I— that time I did it, I said I'll never do it again. I, I would much rather pay somebody to Know the ethics, the rules, the guidance, the whole thing. And I know that we're this way too in our own companies.

I think that, you know, for us, it's complicated. But people like my daughter, it's not so complicated. They could— she could— I think she hops onto TurboTax or something else. She uses something else because they got to pay Rhode Island and she does her own. But I think for most older adults that have things and Complexity. Yeah, there's no way I'd do my own tax return at this point.

Uh-uh.

At least for it to be done right.

Well, even, even if you're simple but you had 1099 work and you failed to report that correctly or understand what goes behind a 1099, if you are W-2 and a 1099— I'm not saying it's complicated, but I'm saying like, if you just don't even know how to answer it or you fundamentally don't follow the steps, it is It's really hard to, to really understand, um, the value. And I think you become more valuable, uh, between us and a tax professional around this time of year, obviously.

So let me ask you this. What's, what's the temperature of what happens to us at the end of the year where we get bombarded with those firms who have not planned ahead and all of a sudden they want to hire a new accounting bookkeeping firm and they want it all done by the end of January? What have you seen this year? We've seen quite a bit of traffic in that this year.

By the end of January.

Well, I'm exaggerating a bit, but, you know, they want it all done right away and they don't understand.

Oh yeah. Uh, it's, it's part of the survival tip in that is the education behind what's really right. You are going to need to file an extension if you're walking in the door with any sort of disorganization or any, any sort of partially done. I don't even care if you're 3/4, you know, you have 3/4 left or, or a quarter left. I'm sorry. If 3 quarters of it completed, I mean, Lynda and I have seen it. We don't know what the surprises are, right, Lynda? We've seen—

No, we have a client right now that's just, you know, this is— I'll get to it when I get to it. And then it's like there's no sense of urgency to complete it. Like, we did some cleanup and there's no sense of urgency to complete it. And we try to convey to these people that, yes, there's no sense of urgency. If you want to do an extension and wait it out, fine. But don't expect us to get it all bundled up for you by March if you gave us 6 months, only did 6 months last year, or not even any, which is typically the case. They have—

Right.

Done their work, and maybe we gave them a quote back in the beginning of the year, and now all of a sudden they want to come back and get the full price and then want to do the whole year, and now we got to redo the quote. And then they can't take a front seat to our regular clients. The regular clients are our priority, uh, the ones that have been feeding us all last year, and new people are going to have to be processed. I mean, there's plenty of time, right? So the tax return, we try to get the records to the client by the end of January so they can review it and then get a second set of eyes to do the tweaking. Like, they have to give them all their— let them look through their distributions and make sure that those are all really not business-related and go through all that. And you should be doing that anyway in the monthly process. But if it hasn't happened or you had a new client, You need them to look at them. And then we address the different questions we have in a file, and then we get the overall eyes on it, send it to the tax person by like mid-February, because that will only give them a month to get it processed, which is plenty of time. I mean, they're just basically moving numbers onto a system, right? They have to do. But most of the time they file an extension anyway and not do it till August.

Yeah, well, there's also a lot of questions behind it that we won't know that you might— if you have a self-employed plan, whatever. I mean, the estimates tend to go directly to the tax person if you're— it all varies, right? It's all—

Right.

Has some complexity to it. We've also been in situations where we're not so much on the front line of the reporting of it, but we're the ones having to re-conform to it if Congress makes a change. And then there's some changes that have happened. That's happened, you know, with the PayPal thing. It finally came to fruition after, what, 2+ years of conversations and round merry-go-round actions.

Um, so look at how meals and entertainment have changed over the past few years, you know.

Yeah, honestly, I, I do feel that one thing that really should— and I only say this not, not because we're in abuse of it at all— but I do feel like meals should go back to 100% only because— and it could have some qualifiers to it, my personal opinion— because that industry is still suffering in such a big, big way.

Good point.

But maybe there's caveats to it because obviously going and just getting a coffee for yourself at a coffee shop and a pastry does not constitute that's a business meal. There should be, you know, maybe some substantial criteria to either it's an employee, team member, whatever it is.

But under $25 doesn't count.

Something like that or something. Yeah, something like that. But that's just an idea. I'm not saying I disagree with the way it is now. I just look at it through the lens of the industry, um, and how to support an industry that's, that's suffering, um, and still suffering. You see it all the time. Favorite places close.

And so many of our, our legal clients have extensive, I guess for lack of better words, client entertainment and client development expenses. I mean, that's a huge thing for them. And, you know, understanding that—

There's no entertainment anymore.

I know.

You don't get that, right?

I still break it out to see what it is.

I agree.

You put it too, entertainment, not deductible, so that they know it's not deductible. So when they get their paperwork back, right in the title.

Yeah, she does. Yeah, she—

And meals at 50%. So they know that 50% of the meal is covered. But the other— because when they get their report back, they expect the bottom of our profit and loss to match tax return and that part of it. And it doesn't because there's tweaking. And then there's also in a Also, they'll get depreciation. So that sometimes is not reflected in our books until we get the tax return. And in that case, it might still kind of balance out. But now— and there's also those other things that we've had it dumped down in the bottom that are callouts to the tax person that maybe there was adjustments. Maybe we get the file and nobody had booked the tax. Now we have these prior year adjustments that get booked down at the bottom, which is a conversation with the tax person.

For those, those newer bookkeepers that are watching this, this podcast, you're talking about the other category. At the bottom.

The other. Yeah, yeah. The thought is a sore thumb category. You want to show up like we did with the PPP stuff and, you know, just make sure that it's seen. And then the questions will come from the tax person because that's the thing that you want to lay out the story, right?

That's what we always say. We even go as far as laying out travel a little bit more detailed clarity. Tax people really want, especially good ones, they always want the GL or the details behind a profit and loss and a balance sheet. Or, you know, and most don't. Most have a certain work ethic. No one's right or wrong in it, but I do feel like we do a better job if we can call it out and do much more due diligence. And Lynda really does. She goes back through and she really highlights certain areas and calls it out. From our mentor Seth, he's always said, you know, prior year adjustments, Because it really does give the tax person opportunity on how to handle it. There might be a different way. There might have been something we don't know about in a prior year that we're unaware of, kind of thing.

I've seen prior— I've seen other people's books come through and bookkeepers book things to retained earnings, which you can't do because they tie back to their records. That's the thing. I think sometimes people think that's like the black hole dumping zone that they can kind of—

I was glad you brought that up.

Oh, look at that prior tax return and make sure, does it work? Does it match up? And if it doesn't match up, don't book it there. Like you— yeah. Um, Steve, we've seen it.

Yeah.

Steve, um, what are some things for you that come to mind for your own survival, for you and your team during this time? Uh, is there like a cadence or a pace in which you work with people? Do you set stuff up in advance with clients? How do you, how do you navigate that?

We like to set it up in advance, um, because, um, you know, you always have new clients that you took on during the year and you really want to take care of them and teach them the nuances of Their bookkeeping.

Yeah.

And so, they're, you know, we really tune into them to make sure that they have a map of what needs to be done by when, and that we've already had conversations with their tax preparer/CPA throughout the year to understand what their workflow is and what they're like to work with. So, that's one thing. The second thing is, is this last year especially, we really ramped up talking about getting W-9s all throughout the year, um, and reminding them that You know, we're not going to wait until January 31st to enter your W-9s. We're going to enter them by X date in January. And so you need to have your information to us. And to your point, Lynda, if they don't have it to you on time, then, you know, they go, they go to the bottom of the line in getting them done. And sometimes we have to charge more. There's a penalty for not getting that information, especially when we've prepped you all year long. Yeah, looking at—

well, can I ask you though, on that, 1099s really are very tricky at times, and there's— we see a lot of questions around our colleagues asking, especially newbies asking a lot of questions. But if that's not an engaged service as a, as a monthly contractual, that is a separate service. And I don't know why people think it should be all bundled in.

I learned this from Ben Day a few years ago. He was one of our guests on the podcast. I learned this from him a few years ago. In November, October, November, you send out a letter to client that gives them the steps that they need to do to be successful with their 1099 reporting for the next year. And everything has a price to it, and everything has a deadline date to it. If you don't perform by that deadline date on that list, then price starts to go up. And then there's, there's a cutoff. If they don't perform, it's like you're on your own. So—

It makes it hard though when you have the PayPal crap of the world that happens on December whatever. It's happened to us multiple times. It makes it hard. I love the idea of it. I love that we're gonna— for us, I think we're gonna do something a little different because it's—

Well, let's talk about that.

Yeah.

What's gonna work for you?

I think what Lynda and I are kicking around, we wanna really lay out the schedule because it is also a time of holiday celebration with family. It is time. It's a year-end grind. But it's in preparation for, you know, these next few months. So I feel like what we might do is switch it up a little bit. People have an opportunity. If you're not already engaged, this is, you know, you make an election like you're saying, something you make a decision. But I, I do feel like the place that she and I are at right now with our own company, we do want our staff to enjoy their holidays with—

Yeah.

Yes.

And not be beholden to that, those last-minute decisions.

Well, you know what comes to my mind to help address that?

Tell me, tell me.

And then also ties in to what you mentioned a minute ago, um, and not being included in the contract or the, the letter of agreement or whatever you have with your clients, is in late summer up until maybe early October, at some point you reach out to them and say, would you like us to review your file for 1099s and W-9s Um, compliance.

Good idea.

If you'd like us to do that, it's in addition to our contract with you, and this is what it'll cost, and we're going to report back to you and tell you what we see. And then that can fold into that schedule you give them of when things need to be done, and it creates another revenue source. It shows that you care. Um, and I should flip-flop that— it shows that you care and then creates another revenue source. And really Gives you a snapshot of what's to come in January.

Yeah. It's also informing them that it's not part of the commitment. Exactly.

Yeah.

Because it's a big job.

Well, we had our lovely guest on, um, that talked about 1099s, the compliance, the complexity.

Right.

I mean, I frankly felt a little bit— not fear of him, but fear of the outcomes.

Yeah.

Did you all feel that way?

I felt that way. Yes.

It was eye-opening. It really was. And so how do we communicate that to our clients?

Yeah, well, and I don't know, Lynda, how you feel, but liability on some of it, it's, it's really tricky because everything's got to be in writing when it's this time of year.

Yep.

Yep. Well, let's talk about another subject for, for the year end. Back to what we were talking about on the P&L and where everything goes and, you know, meals and entertainment and marketing and travel and all those sorts of things. What about parking? A lot of— there are law firms who just pay for parking out the wazoo, and we don't know if it's client parking, if it's, if it's a pass-through, if it's a firm parking, uh, filing fees. You know, what, what were all these filing fees for? I mean, it just depends on what type of law they're practicing, what you're going to see on the books and where it needs to be allocated. And some of them say, I'm— I don't pass this on to my client, it's all going to be a firm expense. Other ones want to parse it out. And so again, if you're having those conversations throughout the year, If you're doing that big file review in late summer, early fall, you can address a lot of that stuff. But to your point, before the holidays when they don't want— you know, attorneys disappear in, in December. They, they, they take their time off, their well-deserved time off, and we want to pass that on to our staff as well. I took my vacation in December this year because finally I had a year where we could do that, you know.

Yeah, except the cold. It was good.

Yeah, then I got sick afterwards, but Except that, just that one. I got punished for taking time off, but you know, that happens.

So yeah, I, I do. I, I also noticed too, and I feel like I wrote this to somebody recently, you make a SEP contribution, what, what year is that for? You make your tax payments and your estimates. Okay, we need clarity.

Well, tax estimates are due what, in— what's today, the 13th? They're due in 2 days.

You know what's so funny too is when they make a payment and they pay from their Funds. So they're a partnership. They pay the— take the money out of the business and pay their taxes, their estimated taxes, and you put it in their distribution. They're like, why is that a distribution?

Yeah, I know, they always get stuck on that.

You have to explain that. I could see why that they think it should be a business expense, like the business made the money, and— but the business is you. That's what I tell them. Well, and Lynda, didn't that happen?

That happened to me when I first started out years ago. Didn't that come up in your mind too? It's like, well, wait a minute.

You know, yeah, what is this? How's this added back in? Well, I feel that way when I see, like, when you start to see the, um, survival tips. This is a survival tip. You start to see your health care, your health coverage you spent all this money on, how that gets pushed back out and back in. And yeah, I mean, it's, um, something you need to be aware of because it does, and it has to be on the W-2 and all of that, which is—

Yeah, if you're S corp, if you're an S corp, um, that, yeah, that's a, a 2% Above shareholder. Yes, it has to be there. Um, there are some weird little things that you, when you make these transitions from just you to a formation of some sort that requires an additional, there are some things that you're just, you would not know as a regular business person.

Right.

This is—

Nor should you.

I know. And nor should you. Yeah, you are in your craft. It's our job. You're in your profession. So And also, you know, receipts, having documentation, making entity changes mid-year. We are going through a pretty big cleanup for somebody on a piece that wasn't our part, but we are a part of now helping. And, um, it, it's painful. It's costly. It's painful.

Mm-hmm.

And yeah, so there, I think really if there's a tip to make in that is like, be really strategic. Make sure you are talking to the right people when you need to make certain changes. If it's an entity structure, if it's a contribution to a 401, make sure you understand what you're doing. You just didn't get the advice from somebody else or an advisor just who doesn't have a full picture of your perspective. Um, that's not—

Make sure you know if you're cash or accrual-based. Yeah, make sure that's another one that the person doing the bookkeeping needs to know. Don't just not know, you gotta know. Um, and the tax return gives us that information. I was just showing that to a team member, one of our staff members the other day. She's like, oh, it's on the tax return. And I'm like pulling it down. I'm like, yeah, trying to remember where I see it. It's near the top somewhere in the beginning.

You mean on cash basis, I can't write off uncollectible AR?

No.

You want—

oh, you want— What?

There are so many things. You want bad debt expense. Pro bono work. What does that look like?

Right. How do I get credit for all this work that I didn't collect on? Well, you didn't get paid, so you're not paying taxes on that. And you try to explain that, and it's— I get it. They did the work, they didn't get paid, and now they want to get some kind of a bump from it. But if you never paid the tax on it in the first place, then there's really no bump to be had.

Right. TikTok is not your advice for taxes.

I think it's getting shut off too, isn't it? In a few days, I think it's going to go away.

But yeah, and then it's going to move to—

it might be back on by the time we get back on. Who knows?

Anyways. Yeah. Well, I mean, there's— so for us as accountants, it sounds like if I heard everybody right, it's communication.

Yes.

Being very clear about deadlines and guidance on things as best we can.

Right? Like— Be prepared, map it out, get a workflow, but then know that if you're picking up a client in January, you're going to have to know that you have to set that record and set that up. Right in the beginning of the contract or the engagement, because it's gonna be different for that person if they're coming to you in January with all of last year not being done. There has to be an expectation and then a possible date that you're gonna be done and a different workflow for that person as opposed to a client you've had all year. And, you know, this is the workflow that you have, but set those dates on the calendar and be firm about it. Let the client know, like Sarah just said, communication. Let the client know.

Right.

And then stick to it, adhere to it. Don't, Don't waiver. Oh, this person was away on vacation and that's why they didn't give me the information. And now it's January 30th and the information I needed to do the 1099s is coming in at 10:00 at night. No.

By the way, they cut off at 8:00 PM Pacific time for submission on the 31st. So you are not on a 1099 for an NEC. Gone. Done.

I think it's the 28th that you have to have it.

Yeah. Most are backing up. Sooner because of mailing requirements and all those things. And honestly, I don't disagree. I know that I will be pushing much harder, and I have been this year, and we've already kicked off quite a bit already this year.

Our goal is to not have Sarah be on that thing till midnight, getting it up here and getting the work done.

Well, I put our cutoff date at the 20th in January every year, the 20th. And that's what I tell the clients. And it's like, Got to happen by then.

Because we're also prepping for—

Yeah, they're getting the numbers, getting the FEINs and the tax identification numbers. It's that.

So, yeah. So hopefully there could be a change to it, right, in the future. There should be. There should be a better workflow.

Let's hope so.

I mean, I am tired of it. This is a hokey-pokey dance.

Well, maybe our friend Mr. AI will come up with something. You never know.

I don't know.

I'd like to say I hope the government does, but I don't have a lot of hope there. Would be nice for Mr. AI to help us. That would be a good place for AI to help us. But I don't know. We'll see. I'm just looking at even the way things are working in QuickBooks and trying to go through that stuff in the 1099 module. And I did it for clients, and it's pulling up all sorts of names that it thinks it might be. And I'm like, oh, so far off. What will make you think that this is what that is?

But they have no idea.

Exactly.

It's scary.

Where's the AI there? I have the AI assisting Intuit Come on into it. You should know that Adobe isn't a 1099.

Don't waste my time looking at needless stuff that's unnecessary.

Needless.

Yeah. That's the exhaustion from it, too, is parsing it out and then really tracing it back. How was this person actually paid? Oh, Zelle. Oh, but Zelle is attached to a bank account. Oh, it's a debit card.

That's why it's attached to a bank account. Brain messes with your brain every year.

Yeah. And people— yeah. Anyways, well, if you ever want to go back and listen to the scary 1099 outcomes—

Yeah, we have 2 of those.

That was an amazing conversation. Anyways, well, I think we gave some good tips overall, to be honest with you. I don't know. Do you have more to add, anybody?

Just one more. If you're— again, I'm thinking of all the newbies today that that might be watching this, please don't be afraid to tell, number one, your client that you want to have a relationship with their CPA and tax preparer.

Oh, good point.

And number two, talk to that person at least once a quarter throughout the year. And guess what? You're going to learn so much and they're going to respect you because you— they're like, okay, this is a real person. They care. They're not just going to dump this pile of stuff on me at the end of the year. Um, you know, I, I file stuff. This has made such a big difference. Yeah, this has made such a big difference for us in this company and is just having those relationships with those people, because when year-end comes, they tend to communicate better with us now.

Well, honestly, we do 1099s for law firms. There's a lot of same vendors, so there's a lot of data that we hold, whereas you as a new attorney or you as a new law firm You— that's a lot of work. It's a lot of admin work that's got to go out there and get all this data at the last second if that's what— if that's what's going to happen to you. So there is some benefit to utilizing a professional that has a lot of this information and understands and recognizes this stuff. But—

Good point. Good point.

Well, you got some valid points there too. I mean, I think between the 3 of us, it's quite a bit here. You could— you could feather out the nuggets yourselves, I guess.

There you go.

This was good.

Thank you.

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Cheers with my coffee.

There we go.

Thank you, everybody.

Thank you.

Bye-bye.