2021 Tax and Asset Management

Foreign.

Thank you so much for joining us. My name is Madhavi Nari Jain and I'm your host today. I'm the president and wealth strategist at Think Outside this talks. And today we are going to talk about the 2021 tax mantra. And we have bunch of topics that we have to cover today. So, you know, just gonna go ahead and get started while people are still trickling in. Thank you so much, Carl, for being here today.

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.

Yeah, so I'm gonna share my screen quickly here and jump right in. For some reason I'm not gonna. Yeah, there you go. You see my screen okay? Yes, but perfect. So Today's topic is 2021 tax mantra. Thank you so much everyone for joining in today. I know this is a weekday evening, it's kind of tough for most of you, so you showing up here means a lot. Thank you so much. Again, we are gonna, you know, start with a little bit disclaimer from our side that we, you know, at least I am not a tax professional. I know Carl is. We're not a tax professional. We are not, you know, CPA attorneys. So if you need any legal advice, any tax advice, please reach out. And we have Anderson Advisors here which actually represent that. So if you want to reach them out for those, that's great. But these webinars are educational information purpose only. The examples in most of the time that you use are point in time. So just keep that in mind. They're purely informational and they're based on general assumptions. So with that most of you know about me, I'm Madhvi Nade Jain, president and wealth strategist at Think Outside the Stocks. I focus on a twofold approach for my passive investors. The first one is to make your lazy money more active using the infinity banking strategy. And the second one is make your investment out of the stock market. Like my company says, think outside the stocks and mostly with the real estate with syndication model. So if you want to know more about that, please reach out. Free to reach out to me. I spent a lot of time in IT industry, mostly in project management. And after that I started real estate really became my passion. So I started my rental portfolio Airbnb and I landed onto like multifamily syndication. And once I got to know about these two strategies, I was like, my God, why did I not know about this before? And that became actually my passion to bring that and start educating folks about it. So this series, we meet every other week on Thursday, same time is A continuation of that effort to bring the knowledge that we know to passive investors. And if something that I can provide, something that the guests can provide. And I'm very glad to have Carl here to join for this information today. Really the education is my passion. A little bit about Carl. Carl is a senior attorney at Anderson Business Advisors and I have been with Anderson Advisors for over a year now. I mean it's a great firm. They are there for advising. If you have any questions, they're there. I'm kind of their platinum member. So Carl is, you know, his specialty is strategic planning. He was just mentioning sometime before that he's not as busy as right now with the tax season because his, his role in the company is about strategic planning and that strategic planning is really important. So he helps a lot of business owner to focus on that asset protection as well as tax planning. So it's kind of a dual role. He speaks a lot. He speaks across the country to educate small business owners on different tools of investments, legal taxes, etc. He himself is an investor. He invests in cryptocurrency, real estate, short term rentals, syndications, whatnot. So I think his expertise in his investing kind of trickled down to the advice and the small business owners and other people that he advises. So essentially that's a little bit about Carl. Carl, welcome again. So a little bit about think outside the stocks. Just going to take a couple of minutes. I focus on wealth maximization approach and what it means is really when we are looking at saving and investing in our financial structure, I like to work with my passive investors to take a step back and change the perspective a little bit. So it's kind of a bird's eye view to not just save and grow your money but to grow, preserve, protect and pass to the next generation. So with that I help with first of all that better saving system which is guaranteed growth and protection with the infinity banking system. The second is that risk managed syndicated real estate investments and lastly the passive investor education. And then from time to time we also connect with people like Anderson Advisors which can bring you something thing that I cannot provide. So those kind of the connections. Right. The upcoming webinar I have after a couple of weeks is about investing in real estate. Why are retirement accounts not many people know that they can actually do this but you can really do from retirement account. And not only that, we're going to talk about what's really the best option because there is a lot of confusion about, you know, SDIRA or Solo 401k QRP. What is the best vehicle to invest? So we're going to talk about that. Scott Maverer from Advanta IRA is going to be with us. So with that I'm going to pass on to you, Carl.

All right, let me just please share.

My yes, I'm going to stop my share.

And we will get started. All right, let's see here. All right, so thank you everybody for joining us today. I'm happy to be here as your guest. It's great to see everybody starting to log in here. So welcome, welcome. My name is Carl Zellner. I'm one of the attorneys at Andersen Advisors. I do invest in many different areas, real estate, stock trading, cryptocurrency. I'm like many investors out there, right? Everybody says, well, what do you invest in? And the answer is sort of yes. If it's making money, most of us will invest in it. So I have a wide variety of investments as well as I am a premier educator for across the country. Pre Covid I was probably on a plane 40 weeks out of the year. So I was everywhere from the east coast to west coast to the south to the North. I grew up in Central Texas, so I was raised in Georgetown, Texas, went to University of Colorado for my undergrad degree and played a little football there and then came back to Texas to go to Texas A and M School of Law and am licensed in Texas. So for all of my fellow Texans on the call, it's always great to see y' all as well. I think the instructions were given at the beginning. You're welcome to ask questions in the question and answer section. Those of you who are not familiar with the zoom format, the bottom of the page you'll see a couple chat bubbles that say Q and A. You can ask your questions there. Usually I don't know if it's different for y', all, but we usually use the chat for things if you're having issue or sort of general conversation. So Q and A. I'm going to plan to spend some time here on the back end with Q and A. So if you have questions, make sure you are entering them so I can get to them at the end. Otherwise we're going to go through some different an introduction to Tax and Asset Protection. I think everybody can agree with me it's not reasonable to expect that I could take you through every bit and piece of tax and asset protection in an hour. So this is going to be your main introduction and then I'm also going to have a offer for you to get some more education as well as a free consultation at the end of our presentation as well. So if there's information you want more info on or just to kind of speak about your individualized situation, it's a great place to do it. The other piece or the piece that we should also mention is I'm teaching broad concepts from the front of the room. So when it comes to your individual plan, you really need an individual consultation. Even if you're doing the same type of business activity as a friend, a lot of times your goal is going to be different or your ultimate aim is going to be a little bit different. So that can change the plan that's right for you. So we do everything from. At Andersen Advisors, we do everything from estate planning to retirement planning. We even have Anderson Retirement Solutions, which works with different types of insurance policies. And really we. We sort of work with the investors on any level as far as tax and asset protection as well. So we're a tax firm, we're a legal firm, and we really spend our days strategizing how to get the best return for our clients. So a little bit more about Anderson. Like I mentioned, we are a premier education company and I am a premier educator for Andersen Advisors. We actually employ professionals to teach and execute the strategies that we teach. Many companies out there will teach a bunch of strategies, but do not, don't have the, for lack of a better term, sort of the chops to back it up. We hire attorneys. We hire CPAs and other tax professionals and advise our clients accordingly. So we found that to be very important. We know what it's like to be bounced around between your attorney or cpa, one only willing to give advice on liability protection, maybe the other only willing to give tax advice. And then ultimately there's sort of a disconnect between the two. We found there's a ton of value for putting them under all that, under one roof to come up with comprehensive strategies that are set to maximize your protection and minimize the tax you pay. We don't believe in tax evasion, but we also don't believe in leaving a tip if you don't have to. There's no reason that you can't take advantage of the tax code just like everybody else. It really just comes down to working with folks who can help you sort of organize it and put it in order for what you're doing in your business. So who do we serve? We serve investors and small business owners who do business in any of the 50 states. We're a nationwide registered agent. Our Clients come from all over the United States. And at last count, I believe we had over 40,000 clients across the United States. So we do a ton of business. Chances are if there's a type of business you want to do in a state, chances are we probably have another client who's doing the same type of business somewhere. So we're happy to help everybody. We really enjoy and miss getting out there in person to sort of shake some hands and have that personal touch, but have adapted very well to the online scenario. And we even do most of our classes now online until we're able to go back in person as well. So we're huge on education. Andersen Advisors, if you Google us, if you go on our YouTube channel, you have almost endless free education in the areas of real estate, investing, tax, asset protection, we put out a ton of free content. Now, I'm a little bit partial to coffee with Carl, as you can imagine, but I like that scenario and I like recording videos that are quick, little frequently asked questions that people can go in, grab a piece of information and continue on. So just to be aware that's out there, I already told you the kind of the way I invest, I'm in. Like I said, first and foremost, my daily job is I'm an attorney. Like I say, I do stock trading, usually in the morning before work. Real estate investor and a cryptocurrency investor. So I'm enjoying, number one, I'm enjoying the volatility in the stock market. Number two, I'm enjoying the huge explosion of the cryptocurrency market here over the past oh, year or so. And it's been kind of going up and down here recently, but it's working out well. Still my specialty though, or the thing I take the most pride in working with the public is working with those small business owners and real estate investors. And those W2 employees are sort of trying to take it to the next level or make sure they're going to provide more for their family as time goes on to keep more of what you earn and limit your liability. So I want to keep more in your pocket and I want to prevent other people from taking it because there's a great world out there of investing and investing opportunities. But you don't want to sort of treat it like the roulette wheel and risk losing the whole thing on a bad investment or setting yourself up in such a way where you're exposing yourself to too much risk. Nice little quote here by our friend Albert Einstein. If you can't explain it simply you do not understand it well enough. I am an attorney. I do a lot of tax and asset protection planning. I can speak sort of the most, you know, as. As complex as anybody would like. However, I have found over the years that when I speak plainly, people tend to understand it better and we have a better conversation. So in this presentation, I'm not going to be talking about, you know, anticipatory repudiations and all these other sort of things. We're going to talk about some sort of real life circumstances and items you should be looking at as an investor to get the most bang for your buck, whether that's keeping more in your pocket from a tax perspective or keeping more in your pocket from a liability perspective. So like I said, as questions come up along the way, please ask them in the Q and A section and most likely I'll address them at the end of the presentation. As long as we have some time. So we'll hop in here. So when I look or when I talk about these presentations or when we start looking at entities and tax planning, I like to describe them as the old, you know, sort of the old school 3D glasses, right? We've got the blue lens and the red lens. We can look at it from the side of liability and we can look at the side from tax. So when we go through some of these items or some of these slides here, I want to take a look at both sides because that's really going to be the most relevant pieces to your investments. Right? What am I looking at from a tax perspective? What am I looking at from a risk profile? There's lots of different ways to do investments and I've seen great ways to structure different types of deals. But really what it comes down to is I know I'm going to have to. I know I'm going to have some sort of tax responsibility on an annual basis, right? I mean, whether I've got my taxable income down to zero or not is sort of besides the point. But I know there's some sort of work that has to go in from the tax side on an annual basis. The liability side is more unpredictable. It can be one of those things that sort of reaches out and grabs you and can send you back, send you back to zero if you're not careful. I often describe it as sort of the. If you're familiar with the board game Chutes and Ladders, so you can go up many ladders, but if you hit that chute right at the end, it can certainly drop you down to the bottom. If you don't prepare for it. So the entity side is what we look at when we're looking at liability. Big concept here when it comes to liability. And this goes for all of us, including myself. You don't know what you don't know. Okay. I have come across thousands of clients over the past several years who have come in and had a misunderstanding of what liability protection is, a misunderstanding of what your individual state offers in that regard, as well as gotten bad information from professionals. I don't think that a professional would knowingly or intentionally provide you wrong information. The problem is, is a lot of people fancy themselves as tax and asset protection. Oh, I don't know. We'll call them tinkerers, right? If I. And it's simply because they want to bring in additional funds to their business. They're business owners like everybody else. Or like you. Right. If I've got my own shingle hung and somebody comes into my office and say, I'm a personal injury attorney and says, hey, I'm willing to pay you $3,000 to set me up a business entity, I'm probably in the business entity business, right? I can set you up that entity, draft you that operating agreement, get you filed with the state and have you on your way. The problem is, or the item I would look at is, or question is, is that really specialization? Last statistic I heard was that in the realm of asset protection attorneys, there is less than 1% of the legal profession that can actually classify themselves in the asset protection attorney. Now, what else is interesting is from a legal and tax perspective, the attorney side, I can claim myself basically any sort of quote, unquote type of attorney without actually having any formal regulation or filing. So I could sit here and call myself a tax attorney, that's fine. It leads you to believe that I know what I'm talking about from a tax perspective. But so can Joe blow off the street who's doing litigation. So it's one of those things. It's kind of tough. I know it's tough for clients to know, well, what's sort of real and what's not real and where do I find it? So one of the things we take pride in is we sort of show you the why and how behind what we do or where we're getting our information. So you can confirm it yourself if you choose to. So we try to certainly lean on the side of transparency where it makes. Where we can so that we can help have a productive conversation and point you in the right direction as well. So not Knowing what you don't know. So let's talk about business entities. This is one of the, one of the greatly misunderstood areas. There are two basic type of entities we use. There are a couple other options out there that you can look at. So we can even look at a series LLC or there's statutory trusts you can use that sort of work the same way. But for the most part we'll be talking about corporations and llc. So from a corporation standpoint, when I'm putting a business entity together, if you envision it like a box, okay, I'm creating a bulletproof box. So if something happens inside of the box, from a liability perspective, that liability can't get out of that box and get to you as an individual. If you on the other hand, create a liability issue, that box is still there and your liability can't get inside the box using the strategies and the setups we use in order to protect those entities. So corporation is one such box. LLC is one such box. When I talk about something happening inside the box, that's our concept of inside liability. When I talk about you creating liability for your asset in the box, that's outside liability. Corporations and LLCs are great because they protect for both inside and outside liability. So that's why we use them as tools. Now for a corporation, they come in a couple different flavors. You can be looking at a C corporation, which is the standardized version that comes with, that's not flow through entity, that comes with a lot of advantages. And I actually use a C corporation most commonly for most of my clients entity set up. So that may be shocking to some of you because most of you probably heard the old adage of well, C corporations have double taxation. Yes, they do. If you're basically, if you're not doing appropriate amount of tax planning. Otherwise there's lots of ways to get money out of your C corporation. You can even, you know, and by the way, even if you pay yourself a salary out of your C corporation, that's a deduction to the corporation. Really the purest form of double taxation in a C corporation is when you pay yourself a dividend because a corporation can't deduct it. But at the same time, when you earn that dividend from your corporation, it's at long term capital gains rates. So you're talking about in the current situation, 21% on the income to the corporation and whatever your short term, or excuse me, your long term capital gains rates are. So you still may only be, look, you know, it still may not be that bad. The best way, just to be frank with you here, to get your money out of the C Corporation is by reimbursements. So by building up certain expenses and reimbursable expenses in that as your corporation owns money, you can pay yourself at 0% tax. And the C Corporation is really the best tool from that in that regard. Because there's no reasonable salary requirements in an S Corporation. If you're profitable and have active income in your S Corporation, you're required to pay yourself a reasonable salary, which comes along at your tax bracket rate, plus your 15.3% for self employment. So it's an interesting concept. I know there's some interesting thoughts out there, but usually when you're paying tax through a C corporation, most times it's because you're not doing the tax planning portion. Now, looking at the llc, LLC is the same type of box. We're creating a separation between inside and outside liability. With an llc, you tell the IRS you have an llc and I won't share with you how many times. But it happens every time. I sit in front of a room here and I hear somebody go, well, I have an llc. And I go, great. How's it taxed? Never fails. There's at least one person who goes, taxed like an llc. I won't ask any of you to raise your hand. If you're that person who thought your LLC was taxed as an llc. But from the IRS perspective, the IRS says that's cute. How are you? How are you paying your taxes? If it's a single member LLC or owned by a married couple, then you didn't elect a different tax status. Then that LLC is taxed as a sole proprietor, or we also refer to it as a disregarded entity. If there are multiple members which are owners of an llc, then you'd be looking at the default being a partnership taxation. You also have the ability in an LLC to elect if that LLC is taxed as an S Corp or taxed as a C Corp. In a perfect world, I usually, I would say I would love to have a corporation. What's an LLC taxed as? As. Because you lose some of the formalities of a corporation, but you still get most of the tax benefits. Really the difference when it comes down to the difference between an LLC taxed as a corporation versus a traditional corporation is being able to reserve the benefit of what's referred to as 1244 stock loss simply because the LLC does not have stock and a traditional corporation does. So that little bit of language difference is basically the Only difference between a corporation and an LLC taxed as a corporation. Now really what we need to do is understand what the right tool for the right job is. When I talk about business entities, when we look at which entity should be paying on the paying tax on what type of investment, usually it's going to be the corporation for some sort of active investing. So if I'm say my law practice, I have my own business, chances are I'm running through my law practice through something with S corporation taxation. On my real estate portfolio side, if I'm doing something like wholesaling or flipping or some sort of other, let's just refer to it as sweat of the brow activity, my taxation is going to run ultimately through a corporation. A couple of reasons why your corporation is best suited to deal with active income. From a real estate perspective, you want that active income to run through that corporation because you can avoid what's referred to as dealer status as well. So dealer status can be a real bummer for if there's any active real estate investors out there. No more if you get tagged as a dealer, no more long term capital gains, no more installment sales without paying the tax on the entire sale up front. No more 1031 exchanges. It just comes with a lot of downside and there's a tool out there that avoids that and that's actually a corporation. So if you have a corporation, you don't even have to worry about dealer status. So what I'm getting at though is there's a right tool for the job. From a tax planning perspective, we're looking at where is the tax paid. From a liability perspective, we're looking at setting up in individual LLC to separate those different investments so they don't affect each other or you as an individual or vice versa, or you don't affect them. So that's what we're looking at for the tool for the job. Now when we start talking about common problems, we find in real estate or common issues, there's even stock trading as a matter of fact, you can use some of these tools. We tend to find the right tools to solve common problems. Can be a trust in many case. So if you're setting up LLCs, corporations, and you just keep sort of feel like you're banging your head against the wall with whether it be title companies, potentially county recorder's offices, things like this, a lot of times trusts are going to be the solution or even if you're working with a complex, you know, an annoying broke brokerage house. So there's trusts tend to solve those solutions or provide those solutions. So land trust, we just named the trust after what they do, just to keep it simple for everybody. These are actually grantor revocable trusts. So they're all part of the same family, but we just name them different things and they're drafted for different purposes. So on the land trust side, the trust is intended to hold title to land or property, real property. It's a tool to prevent transfer tax. If you live in a state that has transfer tax, usually there's an exemption for grantor trust exemption being basically, or excuse me, excluding basically. Pennsylvania, which is a. Which is a, for whatever reason, has chosen to be the most complex state as far as that goes. But pretty much every other state that I can think of, a land trusted work in also can provide an additional layer of anonymity. So when you title a property in the name of a land trust, it usually shows up as, okay, so say it's my property. When I title a property in the name of a land trust, it would show up as. And if I'm trustee, it would show up as Carl Zellner as trustee of 123 Main Street Trust. Okay, now knowing that the name of the trustee and the land trust show up, what you can also do is create a nominee trustee. So that can be a person, that can be a business entity. And so say I switch the scenario from Carl Zellner as trustee of 123 Main Street. I can then switch that to a trustee LLC that I set up, let's call it 123 Main Street LLC. And now it looks like 123 Main street as trustee of 123 Main Street Trust. I'm sure some of you are kind of doing the. I usually describe it as sort of the, the lovable house pet, head tilt when you start looking at it. And I've seen attorneys do the same thing. And that's the point. We have the ability to provide some anonymity for ourselves, especially on passive investments. That's great. I don't need everybody knowing about my mailbox money. So you have the ability for anonymity and it becomes its most powerful for those passive investments that you're holding onto for long term. So the less people know about that, the less attractive of a target you are. By the way, that is sort of the. We talk about sort of the services and goals. I mean, for me, that's really the goal when I'm working with a client from the liability side is I know the things we set up will protect you. And you know, the best protection you can get in a lawsuit. But really what I'm trying to do is prevent the lawsuit because nobody really wins when you have to go to court except for the attorney. The attorneys always get paid. So it's. What can I say? It's an interesting racket in that regard. But my goal for my clients is I want to make you look less appealing to plaintiffs attorneys so that it's not as attractive to come in and try to sue you to try to get those assets. If I hide that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, now the trip to the end of the rainbow doesn't look so appealing. So that's what we're trying to do here is make you look less appealing to a potential plaintiff. I mean, same reason you don't hear people suing homeless people. Right? What are you going to collect? Right. I don't want. No disrespect, but I don't want your shopping cart. So that same idea. We don't. We want to take away that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. So it's not so easy to target you. Personal property trust can be used to hold ownership in a business entity as well as hold things like trading accounts. So a lot of times if you're. If you are an active trader, you're going to be looking at. If you need live feeds, a brokerage house may want you to pay professional fees for that. A lot of times a PPP can, or, excuse me, a personal property trust can step around that, as long as you're not facilitating an actual professional trading sort of business there. So the PPT is a great tool for that, but it is sort of limited to traders. I'm sure there's folks who trade stocks on here, and a lot of you may be saying, well, what's my risk on stocks? The stock itself, nobody's gonna slip on a share. I'm not. We're not really concerned about that piece. What we look at, though is your stock account looks same as cash to an attorney. So if you do get sued, it's your assets, and the attorney doesn't care what you bought the stock for, what you're planning to sell for. They just know if they liquidated, it's the same as cash. So really, what you. God forbid anybody got in a car accident, kiddo who's a minor got in a car accident, something like that. You want to pull those things out of your name and have them in an LLC so that they're protected from the liability you bring on Them not the liability that the brokerage account brings to you. So just something to consider there. Because I know it's a little bit of a twist. The real estate side everybody sort of gets because, you know, if you have tenants on a property, there's just people involved. But the brokerage thing can be a little bit of a twist. Living trust. So from an estate planning purpose, what problem are we trying to solve? Solve. Trying to solve the problem of probate. Probate is expensive and takes a long time. So most times there's an attorney getting a good chunk of the estate as well as it takes. I think last time I saw, on average it's around 18 months, and that was pre corona. So courts being closed back up is probably even longer. So the government in the United States provides a resource and an option to elect out of going through the probate process. It's a living trust. So in a world where you get an option, I would always take the one that is most beneficial. So I talked about looking through these different lenses and how they look. I know this sort of probably looks a little bit funny because it's a very basic kind of picture. But if I'm looking at setting up a business entity structure in this case, I'd be looking at, say, looks like three Indiana rental properties here. I would be using maybe for some reason, if there's a reason to use a land trust. I've got a couple of land trusts on here which, if you are using a land trust, the title of the property or the deed would be held in the land trust. The beneficial interest would be held by the llc. When it comes to grantor revocable trust trusts, the protection provided is linked to the beneficiary. So if it's me as a beneficiary, then it's only as protected as I have, as I am protected as an individual, which isn't much. So that's why I push that beneficial interest to the llc, because now it has the protections of the llc, just like if that property was sitting directly in that llc. You see the corporation show up here, the holding company. This is what you see. So when we sit down, we have our consultation, we talk about what you're doing as an individual, how you're investing. This is a visual. We call. We call this a wealth planning blueprint. And you'll get a visual depiction of what you're doing. Okay, so this is what you would see from your perspective in that structure. Now, from a plaintiff's attorney, from an inside liability protection. So let's Talk. So this is our Indiana LLC here, the one that's in the middle. And let's say there's a tenant who's injured or something happens on that property and you get sued, what does the plaintiff's attorney see? Okay, inside liability. They see the one LLC because they know on that property they'll check the title or the deed and they'll know that there's an Indiana LLC that owns that property as well as they'll be able to see the Wyoming Holding LLC is the member and manager of that property. Okay. Now you'll notice if we go back to that prior page, you don't see the little man and the man and woman symbol there at the bottom. They can't see you. Wyoming. It's one of the reasons we use them. Number one is they have top level of charging order protection or asset protection, as well as the ability to file entities anonymously. So an attorney's left looking at this, they don't know who owns that Wyoming holding company and they know if they're an Indiana attorney and they need to take that Indiana LLC or that property from that holding company, most likely they're looking at what's referred to as a multi jurisdictional lawsuit. So they're now going to have to pay a Wyoming attorney to sit alongside them while they argue their case and likely won't get anything because of the of Wyoming's asset protection laws. So that's what you would see from an inside liability perspective. So not much, just something that you knew was there and then that's the breadcrumbs you have. I can't see that you as an individual actually own it. I just see there's a Wyoming LLC that owns it. And I've talked to other attorneys who said, well, I did an asset search. I went through, looked at the Indiana LLC because I knew, you know, where the injury occurred. Then I saw a Wyoming LLC sitting behind it. And I just said, you know what, it's not worth it. And they passed them on down the road. So I wish I had great statistics to tell you on how many times this has prevented a lawsuit, but it's pretty hard to track things that don't happen. So unfortunately I don't have that statistic. But like I say, when I do talk to other attorneys, other law school buddies who've come across these type of things, they're sort of like, it just wasn't worth my time. Which I love that. Right? Because if that's not worth your time and I had all this others, all these Other items here. What if I had a hundred of those Indiana LLCs and land trusts and things like that? Same thing's true. The only thing they can still see is this. So if you tell me it's not worth your time when you see this, that means anything I build outside of that, great, you didn't know it was there. Like I said, we're taking that pot of gold away. Now, let's talk about that structure from the outside point of view. So let's say, you know, God forbid myself or my wife got in a car accident. This is what they see. They cannot see your entity structure. I mean, there's nothing else to add to the puzzle. So now I can't. So now let's say we got in a car accident and I'm, you know, somebody wants to come sue me, what do I have? I mean, especially if I'm in a state like Texas, right? And I've got an unlimited homestead exemption. You can't take my house. You can't. Even depending how much money you have in your bank account, there's even amounts in your bank account that are protected. Literally, this is what you're looking at. So, same thing. This is what you have. This is what a plaintiff sees. From the outside perspective, I think it's pretty obvious. I think most. Most attorneys would say, you know, I'll take the insurance money and run, because I don't know what else you have. Maybe you got nothing. So that's the idea here. On the outside protection side, I can't see any of your entities at all. So now that's more. That's the liability side. Right? So we're talking about. We want that liability side to be able to keep what you have. Now, let's talk about taxation. When we talk about taxation, we need to distinguish between what tax planning is versus what is tax preparation. Tax planning takes place throughout the year, usually quarterly at minimum. Tax preparation takes place when you drop a box of receipts off with your cpa. Okay. One, you get a benefit out of the other, you're paying somebody to fill in boxes and organize your receipts. So tax planning is a huge piece of the puzzle. One of the biggest. I'll just tell you some of the biggest things that come up in regards to taxation. One, a lot of folks out there, you have the wrong taxation of your entities for the type of business you're doing. Okay? I know there are. There are people who told you, oh, you just need to get an LLC or maybe you have an active business. And they said, oh, you just need an S corporation that's sloppy. We actually want to take a look at what you're doing and as part of what we do for our clients is we'll actually do a two year tax review. Just to look back, right? So really, when it comes to a tax plan, you're looking at, there's three different areas you look at. Number one is you look back, see what you were doing, where you can improve. Next you look at the present. What are you currently doing? Are you, you know, are you trying to improve your tax position? Number three is what can we do in the future to do some planning and really maximize the benefit or maximize the income. Your record, your, the income you're receiving, but minimizing the tax and income. So it's. There's a balance there, right? I mean, I'm not going to sit up here and tell you that you should be making zero dollars, you should be paying zero tax dollars. To me, not to be disrespectful to anybody, but that is a bit of a cheap parlor trick, especially if you're an investor. Because I would encourage you, if you, if you think that's a great idea, show $0 in income and go try to get a loan. Usually doesn't work out so well because the lender wants to make sure you have the ability to pay back the loan. So just from a broad perspective, $0 in income from the, at least from the people I've worked with, I have not seen that be a benefit. But we do want to dial that in. I want to know, you know, like I said, we've got to get the planning in place. And also different, I mean, we're all in different places, right? Some of us may be in a holding pattern. Some of us, some of us may just be looking for investments to add a little bit to our bottom line every year. As far as maybe syndication investing, all of us are in different places. So some of us, lendability is a huge deal. And there's a business entity that works best for it. If you're running it. If you have a business where being lendable is very important and you're doing some sort of active investing, a C corporation beats an S corporation hands down almost every time. And the reason is this. It's the tax side in an S corporation. Number one, I do have a salary, so that's good. I'll show some W2 income. The downside is that S Corporation generates a K1 to its owners. So it would put a lender on notice that you own that S Corporation. And then the lender is going to want to dig into your S corporation and see how healthy it is to help justify the loan. Most of us who are running businesses or have our own businesses, that corporate entity isn't really designed to be a world beater. Right. I'm not looking for, you know, not usually for most small business owner running a ton of money through there. I'm usually using that corporation more for the tax benefits a lot of times, especially when I'm starting out. So it can be tough if you have to expose that due to the S Corporation issuing the K1 at the end of the year through a C corporate corporation, I can still choose to pay myself W2 income, but there is no K1. So it just looks like I'm bringing in an additional source of income. So it tends to work better with lenders. But it's one of those pieces that I've found over and over and over again. CPAs don't address. They don't. I don't know what it is. Attorneys don't address it either. So that would just lead me to believe they may not be investors or very familiar with lending. So that's something to consider, by the way, just as a tidbit, if you're an investor, real estate, stock, something like that, you always want to work with people who are doing what you're doing. It's sort of a universal rule once you are introduced to working with professionals is you want. Professionals are awesome. You know, I guess I'm a little biased, but you really want to work with the ones who are doing what you're doing because they're diving in sort of on their own time to make sure they're getting the most bang for their buck too. So you can leverage their experience if they're doing what you're doing. If they're not doing what you're doing, you tend to be educating them more than they're educating you. So I'm sure somebody, I'm sure at least a few of you have experienced that as well.

That's such an important tip, Carl. Very, very well said.

Absolutely. So looking at that same structure, so that same structure we were looking at before from the inside liability, outside liability, actually, I'm going to go back there because I think it's important to get that sort of refreshed view. Okay, this is our original structure. This is from an inside liability perspective, outside liability perspective. Now from the IRS perspective, that's it. They don't see all that other stuff. They don't disregarded Entities don't interest them. They want to know who's paying the taxes. So on my passive investments, most times I'm paying the tax. Right, because your passive income is already a tax preferred way to receive of your income. Especially if it's real estate. If it's real estate and you can carry through the deductions, a lot of times the depreciation or the losses you have on those properties will offset the gain anyways. Now if I have a corporation and I have myself and I've got that portfolio we looked at earlier, this is where the IRS is looking what sort of. They want to see the income tax return for the corporation. So for a C corporation that's an 1120. For an S corporation that's an 1120s. And then they want to look at, you know, my wife and I's 1040. That's it. So that's what the IRS sees. So that's, that's one of the huge things when I started sort of breaking it out into that area is I think it was a great connection point because everybody as we start setting up your entities or discuss what you actually have for entities, so sort of thinks the outside world can see everything you can see. But when you start taking it from those different vantage points, you can start to see what, what you're dealing with if something, if an issue occurs. So a little bit more about us. Our process is easy. Working with us is easy. Number one is we educate. So you've already gotten sort of your first piece of education here this evening. The second part is we're going to want to have that individual consultation with you so that we can blueprint or basically give you a visual depiction of what you do. And then we're going to want to educate you some more. So we actually have levels of our education for our clients. First level is our tax and Asset protection seminar. So you can come usually, you know, I don't think we have, I don't remember last time we charged for people to come to it. But it's our tax and Asset protection seminar you come to that. That's sort of our first level. Second is our structure implementation class. So now that you have your business entities, here's what Anderson's going to do to help you keep them compliant. Here's what you need to be aware of. And number three is your tax wise. So now that you got them, you know how to use them. Here's how to squeeze every cent out of them. So we look at this as an ongoing relationship where we continue to Educate our clients along the way. We continue to provide consulting services. We even have a program called our platinum program. For $35 a month, you can ask questions online. You can have consults with, you know, myself or one of the other attorneys and we don't charge an hourly rate. You can even ask questions of our tax team. The tax team side though is going to be a little bit more. Is going to be more on the writing because we like to have our tax questions answered in writing. So it is our ultimate goal to always communicate with our clients and be accessible to them. I mean, even for our platinum clients, we now have a daily office hour where you can ask tax and legal questions of attorneys and tax advisors in a live scenario just like this. So we sort of overly communicate and are overly accessible. So. Interesting. So let's talk about in just a kind of a. In regards to a summary here, some building blocks of a great blocks of a great structure. Number one, we got, we got to keep looking at the tax liability. You can't look at asset protection without pairing it with tax. In my opinion we gotta look at the liability side where anonymity is appropriate, where it's not. Most times anonymity, like I said, is my. Is a great thing to have on the passive side. On an active investment, it can work against you a little bit. So we've got to be careful how we plan there. Estate planning. Do not want to leave your estate or have a chunk of it. Go to an attorney. Your living trust is the best option. If you attend our tax and asset protection class, we'll give you probably somewhere over an hour on how a living trust beats up on a will pretty good. So it is a better option. It can help avoid probate. If you have a will or no estate plan at all, your estate will be going through probate. So it's expensive and it's time consuming. So just be you have the option to use something else, I would suggest you do. Retirement investment. Tax Deferred accounts can be valuable in testing in, excuse me, investing tools. There are lots of different routes to go with retirement investing. Most people are familiar with IRAs. Most sort of investors would be more inclined to go with the IRA simply because they don't know that they can be setting themselves up a QRP or qualified retirement plan, usually like a solo 401k. From a real estate investing perspective, the qualified retirement plan, my opinion tends to be the better tool. I don't have to worry about UDFI issues in a 401, 401 plan. In a IRA, that can be a concern. I can actually borrow from my 401k, so $50,000 or up to 50%, whichever is less. In an IRA, a lot of times you hear about being able to borrow, you're not really borrowing. You've got 60 days to take advantage of a rollover where you have access to those funds, but you have to have the funds back in. In 60 days. In a qualified retirement plan, you have 60 months, so you have five years to get that money back in. A great example would be if, during the CARES act here, if you had a 401, you could have actually borrowed up to $100,000 and you could have taken a early distribution of $100,000 and access those funds if, say you were in a struggling business or, you know, you've been affected by the coronavirus. So there's. To me, like I say, my preference is a qualified retirement plan. But I don't want to also. At the same time, I don't also want to poo poo on any IRAs either because I do do a lot of trading out of a Roth ira. So there's a place for everything. But if I'm talking about investing, portfolio investing, I tend to like the QRP better, especially if I'm investing in other people's deals, just because I don't have to worry about those UDFI issues coming up. So business plan, sort of the final, or, you know, one of the main pieces of the puzzle as well. You can see sort of by tying all these things together, how relevant every aspect of this whole thing is. So we want to make sure we're taking it into consideration. State planning, business planning, liability protection and tax, it all sort of functions in the same atmosphere there. So I would look at, looking at that. Like I say, there's different types of retirement planning that you can do depending on what your goals are, where you're trying to go. I'm a huge proponent, like I say, of the 401k because I think it provides you that flexibility as well as you're not having to worry so much. By the way, your risk of loss is lower there too. In an ira, if you create a prohibited transaction, you can disqualify your entire account. Usually in a 401k, it's just that activity until it's fixed. So some different options out there. It really is its own section. And for those of you who attend our Attacks and Asset Protection class, you'll get more information and see some side by side comparisons on it as well. So with that, I'm sort of dwindling on my time here, so I want to share a link with anybody who's interested in having an individual consultation with one of our team members. So it's in the chat section and then we'll open up the floor here for some Q and A.

Thank you so much, Carl. This was great. I mean, I love that pictorial representation about how you can work with what you have and what's seen to the public or the irs. So thank you so much for this detailed presentation. We also have some of the kind of a poll before the event, and people were interested in knowing more about, you know, how the taxes can be optimized as well as the real estate professional qualification for passive investors. Can we, if you have that time, can we dive into the real estate professional qualifications specifically?

Yep. So for real estate professional status, usually we're looking at that. It tends to be the best fit for those folks who maybe have a spouse who works at home or is more focused on the real estate side. More than 50% of your service time has to be applied to real estate. So it usually doesn't work for the main, you know, main W2 earner in the house, but the spouse can qualify. And basically, under the real estate professional side, what you can do is normally when you have that passive real estate, your passive losses are limited to offset your passive gain. By electing to being treated as a real estate professional, you're saying you want to treat those passive losses as active losses, so now they can be offset against safe active gain like your W2 income. So I usually tell the story. We have a client or a friend of the firm who is a very successful litigation attorney making, you know, three, four million dollars a year, and his wife was managing the real estate portfolio. So by qualifying the wife as a real estate professional and purchasing commercial properties multifamily, just basically purchasing as many properties as they could get their hands on and then using accelerated depreciation on those properties, they're now taking these huge losses against that client's not W2, but his active income to a point where the active income was next to nothing. I think his tax rate was down in the low 20s. So he's. By utilizing that, you sort of get this seesaw effect of, okay, so I have passive loss, which I normally would have only been able to set off against passive gain by elective to make it active. So now I can offset a high W2. So for my high W2 income earners, it's a strategy that's out there. We sort of got to run the numbers to make sure it's a right strategy. But we also, for those who want to sort of go into the details of real estate professional, I would, I know for sure. I did a special on One for Coffee with Carl on my YouTube channel, which is our Anderson YouTube channel. I just have a series there also. There is, I'm sure at least a couple more videos in that same area where you actually go through the test. I mean the main, the main pieces here are more than 50% of your services time is spent on real estate and as well as there's some hour requirements depending on the type of the type of work you're doing on your real estate investments. So usually, usually it's not that difficult to qualify if you're managing your own rental properties and one spouse is sort of a stay at home or focused on that real estate side.

So love that, that you know, you have that detailed discussion in coffee with Carl, just briefly, could you talk about what kind of like is there like an accounting or tracking requirement that needs to be done based on number of hours being spent on this real estate activities? People are curious to know that.

Yeah. So there is a specific amount of hours. It depends on the type of activities you're claiming. It's. There's a 750 hour test, there's a 500 hour test. The sort of general advice is you should be keeping track contemporaneous records of your time and activities in regards to your business. Anyways, from a tax planning and liability protections perspective, this applies there as well. So if I'm trying to qualify as a real estate professional and say I'm trying to go for the 750 hour test, I'm not. If for some reason I get audited and asked to produce my hours, I'm not looking to produce 751 Hours. Right. I'm probably looking to over the course of the year, I'm probably putting in 1,000, 2,000 hours that I'm tracking because if you get audited and they're trying to say you're not a real estate professional, they then start trying to cut away at some of those hours to get you under the limit. So while it may not be necessary for a lot of folks out there, I mean you may probably most likely you wouldn't be audited. It's a low, low percentage on that side. You want to have that documentation in place. And I think we got a Q and A question as well.

Yes, we do. Thank you so much for the answer absolutely.

Can you invest in a rental property on H1B? If yes, what expenses can you deduct your H1B visa? Usually the limitation is some sort of active investment. So I've seen lots. Unfortunately I don't advise on the immigration law, but I have seen lots of H1B visa holders invest in rental properties. It's usually you run into issues on active investments because your H1B is sponsored by an employer already. So if you pick up another employer, like say in a corporate corporation sort of relationship, you can run into some issues there. Yes, I've seen H1B owners or holders invest in rental properties. Let's see another one. Does helping friends design home additions or interior design qualestate for real estate professional status? If not, how can this skill set be used to attain real estate professional status? Sheetal, we need to look at what that is. Is it being done in a business? Do you own a percentage of that business? My thought is is it could be applied there, but I'd like to see it in a business entity and you would have to have a minimum ownership percentage to apply it to those ownership.

And in addition to that, if you have like a rental property, that's another activity that could be pulled into the business. Right?

It is. It's not just the rental property though, it's usually the management of that property.

Yeah, absolutely. So that kind of would help towards that qualification. Great questions. Any. Any more questions guys, please be sure to put it into the Q and A box and we'll take it one by one. So I have next question. So it's hard to cover this topic. Again, it's a really big topic but just on the higher level in order to optimize the tax planning kind of creating the strategy. As a real estate investor, what are the three key things would you recommend the investor, the passive investors to look for or plan for?

Okay, great question. So if I'm going to name three things, one is don't be scared of the corporation. Even though you may not be doing active investing, a utilization of a corporation can really expand your tax planning ability. Right? Because a corporation works on different tax code. So as individuals we earn, we get taxed and the government allows us to spend what's left over. On the corporate side, the corporation gets to earn, spend, then get taxed on what's left over. So even see even say a brokerage account or passive investments only if you can find a way to work a corporation into the mix there you're going to get some additional planning opportunities. Second thing is, is if you are, if you're a real estate investor and you're looking for a sort of retirement plan, or maybe you have some IRAs out there that are sort of scattered about and have small amounts in them, I would look at doing a qualified plan because you can roll them all into one and use that as a larger pot of money to invest in things like syndications or whatever your investing strategy tells you you want to do with it. So a lot of times when I come across investors looking for a tax plan or a strategy, when we start talking, they're like, well, I've got six IRAs out there. None of them really have enough individually to work with, but if I could combine them, that would be great. So you would combine them in say a solo 401k. The third one I would say is when it comes to tax planning, you need to invest in the plan. Right. So it's not free to plan. You've got to actually do the work, usually paying a professional. But just from a statistical point, from our tracking of our clients, we're usually seeing for every hour of tax planning, there's about $1,000 in value returned. So it certainly doesn't cost $1,000 an hour for a return. What I would say though is as investors, put on your investing hat and say, listen, I understand that there's going to be some cost associated with planning, but if the return nets you a return, then it's a good investment.

Thank you so much. Great answer. We have another question here.

Sure. Our rental property, do we take the depreciation? If not, do we have to pay depreciation recapture if you sell the rental investment property, whether you claim depreciation or not? Akhtar. Yes, good question. So yeah, even if you're not taking depreciation, when you sell the property, you are subject to depreciation recapture. It's one of those weird ones that kind of stink in the tax code. Yep.

Could you explain a little bit about the whole recapture? Because most of people don't understand it. What exactly the recapture and how it works.

So it really works best with a specific scenario. So I can give you sort of the zoomed out view here. Sure.

So let's consider the rental property and let's kind of consider from the syndication perspective where we have this, you know, huge cave in losses from bonus depreciation. So how about that?

So yes, as you depreciate a property over time, property in general sort of has a life expectancy. So if you're generating there's a flat rate. You can also break it out into different pieces, which is called accelerated depreciation. When you go to sell the property, there's a portion of that, if you sell it, that you depreciated that you would have to recapture upon that sale. So it cuts into your. Basically cuts into your profits a little bit. But it's not dollar for dollar for what you appreciate what you depreciated. So it's something that gets basically, for most of us, it's just something that gets factored into the ultimate sales price and what to expect as a return. But to me, it's always just looked like a line item. So you'd actually have to run the scenario to see what the recapture would be from a percentage perspective. Other than that, I'm not really. I don't really remember the entire formula off the top of my head.

But it's definitely not the hundred percent that you have to recapture. Right. If you're looking at just the depreciation of the property itself, the structure, is there any specific range that they have to recapture after the sale?

I'm sure there is. I don't remember off the top of my head at the moment. I know it's not dollar for dollar and it's a portion of it, But I want to say it's somewhere in the. Usually factors into the. Somewhere like the 25% range. I mean, it's not.

Yep. It's not like 100%, so 25%. Yeah. It's good ballpark. And that kind of gives to the segue to that, to the 1031. So, you know, if you still have that recapture and you don't want to end up paying those taxes on the sale, there's still that 1031 exchange that you can use. Could you touch a little bit on that 1031 concept, Carl?

Yeah, and actually Brian was nice enough to send in a Q and A as well.

There you go.

Recapture is taxed at your income bracket, capped at 25%. So basically that percentage will look at like its income to you or what you've depreciated, look at it as income, and then capped at that 25%. So if you're, if you're in the, you know, even if you're in the 0% tax bracket, you'd be paying 0%. But in the chance that you are in, you know, say the 37% tax bracket, it's capped at 25%. So it's not like I say, it's not maximum, It's a quarter okay, sorry. And you said 1031 exchange. So. Yeah. What's great about 1031 exchange is it is an item that is basically allows you to choose if you pay taxes on sale of a property. So you have the ability for real estate. Used to be more expansive than real estate, but currently it's real estate to. When you sell a property, if you can identify, you'll identify another property and you can purchase it using a qualified intermediary, they will hold those funds and use that money in a purchase. Therefore, you would avoid the capital gains on the income from the sale of that property. So realistically, if you've got a sort of a booming or growing portfolio and really you're in a space where you don't need a ton of that income, you can keep 1031 exchanging until you pass on. And then if you pass on and leave your kids or whoever you want to inherit that property at the time of your passing, they'll receive a full step up in basis in that property. So basically nobody would pay income tax on that property. If you're the person who inherited it, sold it same day, there's no income tax because it steps up to its current market value.

I love that, love that Carl. And you know, most of the people I, a lot of people I talk to, they say that oh, we are not going to depreciate because we'll have to recapture. So that's the great way guys. I mean you have to remember that if you do it or not, you have to recapture it. And if you keep on doing that 1031 exchange change forever and you pass that property to two year heirs that they are going to get that step up basis. So Karl, thank you so much for bringing it up. That's kind of segue to my next question. And we touched this a little bit about the probate and the estate planning earlier today. Could you elaborate more in terms of just the entire, you know, the will versus the estate planning? A lot of people think that I have a will. I have, you know, my, all my assets listed there. I, I can transfer without any hassle. What kind of hassle are we looking at when it comes to the will? Can you elaborate a little bit on that probate process and all the hassle in terms of money and time, etc.

Yeah. So with a will, a will is simply a set of instructions. A judge has to decide whether to enforce those instructions. So that's the reason why a will has to go through probate. So a will invites also is one of the Things invites contest, because it's literally giving a forum for anybody to raise their hand and make a contest against the estate. The difference in the living trust is the assets are actually held by the living trust already. So when you pass, ownership's not really transferring at that point to anybody else. It's already in the living trust. What's happening is, is a new trustee is stepping in and deciding whether to distribute those assets to somebody else. A will. You own the assets, so somebody has.

To decide who gets them and how expensive is the. Is the process of the property.

So on average, you're looking at somewhere between the 8 to 10% range of the gross estate.

Wow, that's expensive. So essentially you think that it's going to be inexpensive for your heirs, but it ends up being so expensive.

Yeah, it's actually an unfortunate part of the legal industry. It's known as a loss leader, because most times you're getting the will for very cheap, but probate is very expensive. So sort of your heirs are left holding the bag. The trust is sort of the opposite route. The trust is more expensive than a will, but not prohibitively expensive. Currently at Anderson, I think we're doing them for $2,500. And then you can avoid the probate process altogether.

And in terms of the timeline, Right. What timeline does the probate process take?

Typically, on average, pre coronavirus, it was taking 18 months.

Wow. And during that time, is there. I mean, if there's any tax bill on the estate tax that's due, do they have to pay for it or it still happens after?

It can be. The probate process can be very messy. So usually you have to name an executor to the estate to sort of take care of those items, but they're really hard to figure out a lot of times. So usually those who don't have an estate plan or will may not have everything laid out. So there's a sort of discovery process going on. There's usually folks arguing over who gets what or what percentage. It just tends to be a messier way to do your estate. And we don't think of it that way because most of us are just told forever, you know, just have a will. But, you know, like I said, you have an option to avoid it. And for 2,500 bucks, basically it's like, why wouldn't you take it? Also, the other thing that comes along that we should mention in the good estate plan is that you have the ancillary documents as well. So the powers of attorney. HIPAA releases things like that. So we do include that as part of the living trust. We do as well.

And also the pour over will as well. Right. So if there's some asset which is just not placed into the estate planning, it could still.

Yes, yeah. The pour over will actually serves a couple of functions. That's one of them basically just says anything left out should be put in the living trust to be distributed per the guidelines of the living trust. There's also a piece of the pour over will that deals with sort of guardianship provisions for minor children, items like that. Simply because courts are used to seeing wills, not so used to seeing trusts. So you have to address it in something they're used to seeing. But yes, that's part of that.

Sorry, I think somebody's unmute. But the next question, I mean in terms of probate, right, if somebody has a property in say three different states, is it just one probate process or every state will have their own probate process. I mean how complicated can that make it?

The process is fairly similar, but each state will certainly have its own twist. So it's interesting. Yes. So yeah, each state will have. So what you get, the real variation you see is in what we refer to as intestacy laws. So like in Texas for example, I know you've got some Texas folks on here. Technically if a husband and wife were married, didn't have an estate plan in place and say the husband died the property, the wife actually gets a life estate in the property, but the child retains the ownership. So you'll see some weird things that come across on if the mom tries to refi the property or sell the property where they'll have to come in and the child will have to sign off on that. So you get some weird quirks like that from state to state.

Great discussion, Carl. Thank you so much. I mean this is what bringing back to the original thought that we started this presentation with, that it's not just about saving and investing your money, but it's really stepping a little bit back, taking that bird's eye view to grow, preserve, protect and pass. So thank you so much, Carl. I mean this has been a lot of information today in terms of touching all these different topics. We talked about protection. We talked about when it comes to your passive investment, protecting it. We talked about preserving your wealth in terms of not having that leakages about the taxes. We talked about how to pass it, you know, easily to the next generation as well. So thank you so much, appreciate your time today here and thank you everyone for joining in and asking good questions. I hope that this was, you know, a great information source for you. And please go ahead and, you know, schedule that strategy session with Carl with Anderson Advisors. And, you know, wherever you have those kind of lose screws in your the entire system, just identify that and start fixing it, you know, as soon as possible. That's what I would say. And that's what I always say to my investors. We think outside the stock. So thank you so much again, everyone, for joining. Thank you so much. Carl, it was such a pleasure to have have you with for such a complex topic.

Absolutely. Thank you for having me. And I look forward to chatting with everybody.

Thank you so much.

Thanks.

Bye.