Think Outside the Stocks: Breaking the Financial Fear Barrier with Liz Faircloth

I think before you get into that, right, time, money, what's your interest level, active, passive, the bigger question, especially with partnership, is what is important to you, right? Where do you want to be 5 years financially, lifestyle? All of that really matters. Like, what's your North Star, we like to call it within ART when we're teaching. Like, what is your North Star? Like, where are you headed? Are you frustrated watching your hard-earned money ride the knee-jerking Wall Street roller coaster? Are you looking to diversify alternate investments and set them on autopilot to achieve financial freedom? It's time to learn the ways of the wealthy. It's time to Think Outside the Stocks with your host Madhavi Nade Jain, an immigrant from India, an ex-IT professional who will bring you industry experts to illustrate a passive and holistic financial approach to build not just passive income but also your generational wealth. Madhavi is on a mission to change the financial trajectory of one family at a time and 1,000 more to go. Are you going to be part of this vision? And now without further ado, here is the host of Think Outside the Stocks, Madhavi Nade Jain.

Before we go ahead, just a little bit, two cents from my lawyer, that this is information and education purpose only. If you want to engage with any of our guests, including Shauna, please do your own due diligence. And I'm not particularly a financial, legal, or tax advisor or investment advisor. So please seek your own team and maybe Toshana would be one of that team members, right? And also we, you know, we'll have some examples for educational information purpose only. So keep that in mind. These are point in time. These are not representative of any real information. Hey, hey, hey, welcome back to Think Outside the Stocks. I am your host Madhavi Nade Jain and I'm here with a very special, very powerful guest today. Liz Faircloth, it's such an honor to have you in my studio today. And to talk to you in person, I— we met a few months back at a Best Ever conference, and the Best Ever conference being best ever people together. And one of the connections that I think I came across. So thank you for being here.

Nice to meet you there, Madhavi, and thank you for the time and the opportunity and excited to jump in here today.

Absolutely. And Liz, we're going to talk about your favorite topic, my favorite topic. And really, you know, the question here that we are trying to solve is that why Do we see so many smart women? These are really smart women, but they play small when it comes to money, when it comes to their financial, you know, independence about money, their thinking about money. And you are such a powerhouse to talk about this topic. So I'm very excited about it. So really today, you know, listeners, let's just talk about that. You know, why do so many successful women feel behind when it comes to money and investing? Why do they feel that, hey, this is one area that I'm not going to put my hands in because if I do that, everything is just gonna come on me. So I see that, you know, woman saying that a lot. My friends around me are, you know, really powerful, successful women. Uh, they're smart, they're capable, they're driven. They have, you know, done that, uh, really high level in whatever their expertise that they are, uh, whether it's corporate, whether it's, you know, their personal finances, personal businesses, etc. But when comes to building wealth, there is a hesitation. There is a doubt, and, and sometimes, uh, most of the times there is a fear, right? So what is that fear? And what if the problem is not that ability, but the way we have been taught to think about the money, right? It just comes from that belief system. So our guest today, Liz, has made her mission to help women break through those barriers, and this she has not done it for one person, but many, many, many, many lives that she has touched. She's building confidence, creating wealth, helping them to create their wealth on their own terms. And we are diving into what really takes to step into this financial power. So Liz, again, welcome back. And before I go ahead, I always like to, you know, introduce my guest in a very fun way. It's like 3 fun facts rather than just that boxed, you know, kind of a guest introduction. So here are 3 fun facts about Liz, that she leads one of the biggest, biggest masterminds for women in, in the States, and that's about 55,000 members. So that's how many lives she has personally touched with her, you know, partner Andresa. Incredible, you know, powerful, another, another powerful, another powerhouse woman there. But that's not where she began, you know, Liz actually started studying in social, uh, to become a social worker. So that's a very interesting fact. And Liz, I think that, that brings to what you are today, because, you know, having that impact-driven to start early on in your career and now doing what you're doing, that's got to be driven by the values, the impact that you want to bring into the world, right? So that's fact number, uh, 2. Uh, the third one is that she actually left her job twice to join and invest with her husband together. And it's very tricky to have your partner—

very tricky—

life partner work with you, right? And we'll dig deeper into that also, Liz, in a moment. But yeah, there's, you know, ups and downs in the life. And that's how she has turned around and, you know, InvestHerCon, which is her conference, which is coming up soon here, had incredible amount of 10 days in attendance last year, they cohesively kind of added up to about $1.95 billion in assets. That's incredible. Liz, congratulations for what you have done so far, what you have become, and not just for you, but for everybody around you and the way you have touching everybody's life.

Thank you.

Incredible honor. So let's jump in, Liz. This is not You know, it just looks outside that this is so big, but it wasn't, right? So where did all this begin? And where did you know you had that fear like everybody else that probably our listeners have, especially women, that fear, that doubt, you know, maybe it started there. And let's just start with your story. So do you want us to take us through that story of yours?

Yeah, no, absolutely. I, and I think the, the challenge and opportunity is that a lot of these conversations around money, investing, wealth, it doesn't begin when, when we're children, unless you're raised in a certain type of family with certain type of, you know, learnings and traditions, if you will. But most people, if you will, are not exploring those conversations, boys or girls for that matter. Then you bring on to the lender of the other lens of gender, right? And then there's a whole other what's acceptable for girls to do and to talk about, and vice versa, right? And so, you know, I, I didn't realize those things, right, until I was in my 20s. And I was going to school. I grew up in a very hardworking middle-class family. And I grew up one of 3 girls. And I, and my, I did have the belief that I could do whatever I put my mind to, right? That was a lot of my, yeah, I was very blessed in that way that I did have that, that learning, that teaching, and that kind of that framework. However, I was always very service-oriented since being a little kid. I wanted to help people and I wanted to open my own practice, right? That was my focus. That was my, you know, that was very, very focused on. And then my brother-in-law handed me Rich Dad Poor Dad and said, you need to read this book. And I said, what is this? The purple Bible. And I'm like, I have no idea what this is. And I trusted him. He was the only entrepreneur that I knew. He started his own business. I didn't know anyone else like that and I didn't have any other reference points. And so, I listened to him and read that book and I was like, "Oh, wow. There's a whole other world about investing and making money work for you versus you working hard for money." That was a concept I had never thought about, heard about, if you will. If you want something, you work hard for it, right? That was my— and I'm grateful for that, but it also can be limiting, right? When we are only the ones working for it. At that point, fast forward a few years, I started dating my then, not my now husband, but my then boyfriend. And, um, I said, you need to read this. I just read it about a year ago. And I, and so we both started our journey of, of real estate investing together in our twenties, started going to, to, to, um, the local, you know, REIA group meetings. And that's when, like, that's when it was like 2004. I mean, I'm talking a long time ago. And, uh, long story short, learned about different strategies and we bought our first duplex in 2004 outside of Philadelphia. And my father lent us the money for the down payment, which is a big deal at the time. And that got us moving in the direction of building a business through real estate. And, you know, I started— I kept working and I didn't, you know, obviously quit my job. I got a job in sales, not social work, because that's the other thing in that book. That it talks about, right? So just early on, I started learning the things that I was naturally intrigued by about, you know, making money work for you and real estate. So that just became something I became more interested in as an adult versus it being taught to me as a kid.

Right.

Yeah.

Wow. Wow. So, so incredible. You know, I think you hit it on the, you know, head, the nail, because talking about the childhood where the money doesn't get inside a household, right? Whether it's boys or girls, it doesn't matter. I mean, more so for, you know, the girls. I mean, I come from, you know, one of the middle-class families where we didn't talk about money. I mean, my mom handled the household and my dad was like managing the financial stuff, right? So I don't remember going to the bank till I was like probably 20, 22. And I remember that those slips, those one of those old days that you have to take money out of and you, and I had no idea how to fill that. Slip and where the account number goes and all that stuff, right? Yeah. So you're so right about it that it doesn't get talked a lot in the household. And I think that's what, you know, you and me are really intrigued and really challenged to do is talking to women about finance. Because when you talk about— talk to a man about finance, you're changing probably an individual's life, right? But when you start talking about finance to a woman, She's the one actually going to take back to the dinner table conversations. And she's going to have that conversations in front of children with the husband. And then that's actually teaching the entire household. Right. So, you know, one kind of a person at a time, if you can change that, the entire family and the entire household, that's incredible. And that's powerful. But going back to that first investment, I mean, it must have taken so much guts to like that, taking that loan from your parents. Yeah. What's about $30,000 loan. Yes. And going like deep dive into real estate. Right. But look, it was how far it has, it has gone here. So, you know, let's talk about that because investing and saving are two different things, right? When it comes to women and like we are a little bit more conservative than men and which is rightfully so, we need to be a little bit more conservative. At the same time, we need to take that risk a little bit more as well. Right. So what do you see that, you know, when it comes to like challenging those norms, that when society teaches women to save, how can somebody think about breaking through that mentality and taking that first step towards investing when it comes to risk and actually taking risks? Because there is a huge gap between that saving and investing. How— what would you advise? Yeah, that context.

Absolutely. I think then there's one other layer in addition to what you're saying, that the other layer is also And I've heard women, I was talking to somebody in venture capital. She's like, the amount of comfort women have in giving money away versus investing money is diametrically different, right? So then there's another layer to that. You know, and again, I, you know, I'm not gonna solve all the gender role differences in society, but what I can say is that I'll meet people and I'm going to just speak to it because of my experience. I'll meet people at conferences and I'll meet, and this is a true story. The gentleman I met 2 years ago, a few years ago, he came up to me and he said, oh, thanks for your talk. And I said, you're welcome. I said, what did you like about, you know, chit-chat? And I said, oh, what are you involved in? He goes, oh, I have, I have 5 properties. I am doing so well. I'm starting to coach people because I'm doing great. I said, that's great. That's wonderful. Good luck. With your coaching business after 5 properties. Godspeed, right? So then I literally— and I wish I was making this story up— literally meet a woman later in the, in the day. She was part of our community. She's like, oh my God, I really appreciated your talk. I said, thanks, what did you enjoy about it? I was like learning. And I said, where, where are you from and what are you involved in? She's like, I'm just getting started, literally just getting started. I said, oh, that's good. She goes, yeah, I just, I just have 5 properties. So one—

gosh, look at that.

One thinks, right? And I— and it's a very— so it's a very clear way, right? One thinks they're literally going to be the next coach for real estate, and the other one thinks they're just getting started. And I, and I see this happen a lot. You talk to these phenomenally minded women, I mean, really smart women, really smart. It's very rare I meet a woman who's just not— has it together, right? And I'm talking to her and she just and just get— I had a woman who was raising capital. She's like, I'm just dipping my toes in capital raising. I said, that's cool. What are you on, your first million? She's like, no, I've raised over $10 million. I said, that's not dipping any toes, right? It's the language we use. And I think, why does that happen? I do think it comes back to social conditioning, social norms. What do we talk to little girls about versus what do we talk to little boys about? So then, back to my example, Some families are not talking about it at all. But then the ones that are, there is another layer. And I think, right, right, hunter-gatherer, there's a lot of different social norms that are playing in a history of gender. However, I'll just speak personally, is that women are going to speak about something when they are the expert in that area.

Absolutely.

And then you're going to have, generally speaking, I have my experience with a lot of gentlemen that I've worked with, and I work great with men, they'll say stuff that they know little bit about. And I think that's wherein lies who thinks they're just getting started and who thinks they're the next best thing in real estate. So we need to change that language. We need to change that narrative, and we need to stop dimming our light. You're not just getting started with 5 deals. You're not, right? That's not the case. And I just want to— I want the languaging to be different with the circles of women that we're in. So that does play into it. I do see a comfort, to your point, where women comfortable saving. There's also statistics out there. I think it's Fidelity had done a lot of research. Women are much more comfortable managing the money than investing, right?

The money.

Really? And I think that the pendulum is shifting because of the great wealth transfer now more than ever in the next 3 to 5 years, literally, right? Women, 70% of women will be inheriting. They're making their own money. They're inheriting from parents, from spouses. They're making their own money. They want to control more of their investing decisions. I just think we need to normalize those discussions. I really do think, and that is why we have our conference, not just to plug my conference, but that is literally why we have our community and our conference, because we need to normalize the conversations we're having with women. If we don't have these conversations, then we're— it's like, then we just go back to random conversations. And I'll give you a really quick example. I was at an event this past weekend at the Kentucky Derby. Everyone had parties in the The Kentucky Derby was this past weekend, which, right? The number, the first woman trainer ever to win, right? The Derby, which was really cool. But regardless, I was chatting with a couple moms. I don't know them very well. Usually we talk about our kids. And I said, I'm not gonna talk about, not that I don't love my kids, but I said, what do you do for, I never really got a chance to get to know you. And I knew she worked. I didn't know what she did. She's like, actually, I'm in, I'm in, I'm a tech, I'm into tech. And I'm really big into women in tech because you don't see a lot of women. I'm like, oh my God, you're my people. And then we chatted, then I was chatting about what we did and she's like, oh my God, I love that. I'd love to learn more about different ways to invest. I love real estate. You know, so it's a really, again, it's one example of how to normalize conversations about what women talk about and what men talk about. And I'm not saying we have to chat about that all day and all along, but more women wanna talk about it and it's just not normalized. They don't have space to do that, right? Yeah.

Yeah. It's so much to unpack there, right? I mean, Liz, what, what you have been saying, just kind of unfolding it, right? Very important aspect, what you said, that, you know, what is the language that we are talking about, right? When it comes to just that stark difference between that 5-year and one being trying to be a mentor and one thinking that, hey, I'm just beginning, right? I think it's the story It's not the story that we are telling the world that this is about us. It's a story that we are telling to ourselves, right? So it's kind of an inward. I think you really pointed that so nicely and eloquently that, you know, this is a language we are using with ourselves, with inside of us, that, hey, just bringing down to where we are. But I always say that, you know, if we are kind to ourselves, what we have been kindness that we have shown to the world, even 5%, 10% of it, We will just look at us from a completely different perspective, right? And it's just normalizing that conversation that we have as a woman. Like, you know, there's some gatherings that we still come together and, you know, when men, women talk and, you know, sooner than later the separation happens, the men starts talking about politics and investing and whatnot. And the woman retreat to, you know, the conversation, which are completely different. And it's okay. It's perfectly okay to have that conversations, but If we can integrate the conversations about the money that, hey, what are you doing, you know, for taking care of this risk in your life? And we have a great group of, you know, women that we come together and we talk about even in our family kind of circumstances that, hey, did you start doing your estate planning, for example, right? So these are the questions we need to ask each other because there's so much power into it. And I know when you were talking at Best Ever, So inspiring, by the way, that talk was. And you did talk about this trillions of dollars wealth transfer happening. And if we are good at managing this kind of transfer, then why not the investing? So that's, that's powerful. And, you know, we really have to— if you are a woman listening to this, we really have to ask today to yourself that what is it that, you know, I need to ask myself or tell myself or have a dialogue within myself? To even get to the point that I need to be when it comes to financials, right?

I would say, yeah, go ahead. I'll just say the other, the other part that I have found, because literally the amount of women we've worked with and talked to, I think we need to move through having to feel like we're an expert in everything before we do it. And, you know, there's a lot there. And I, and I know I'll ask women about different things. Oh, I don't know, I don't know everything about that yet. Well, and that's why there's a community, that's where there's a network. That's why I believe in community. Find your own tribe, find your community, right? But you need to tap the community because then my knowledge becomes your knowledge, your knowledge becomes my knowledge. I don't have to have— I need to know enough certainly to ask questions and to vet the different investments, but It doesn't mean all that pressure is on me now to have all the mental load to figure everything out. And I think women are doing that with investing because they're doing that everywhere else in their life. It's a lot in that brain. So I think we need to stop feeling like it's all on us to figure it all out. And then we need to be mindful of who we're trusting and do they have a financial, you know, a financial stake in it. And I'm not saying we, we are, you know, We embody the opportunity for women to have each other and say, hey, does this make sense? Does this make sense?

Love that.

So I think that's critical. I think we gotta let go of this need and desire to figure it all out ourselves. Yeah, you're not, especially in real estate, it is a really hard business. I've been at real estate investing for 20 years, different markets, different asset classes, different strategies. Certainly I know a lot, but I certainly am not an expert in every single strategy and every single approach, right? There's no way. I can't.

I, I absolutely love that because, you know, that perfection is good, but we kind of, you know, become our own enemies when it becomes perfect.

And it stops us.

Yeah. And quite honestly, the whole progress of Think Outside the Stocks, I have kept one motto in mind, you know, the progress over perfection. As long as we're making progress, right? That perfection, we need to kind of step back a little bit. And that who, not how that you also mentioned, that, you know, find somebody who is probably perfect at some of the areas that you want to go in, and you don't have to, right? So let's talk about partnerships in your community, right? And we'll also talk about partnerships within the household, but let's talk about partnerships in the community. What do you see in your community that is happening that you're super proud of, that something incredible when it comes to women partnering and coming together.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think partnership, as you know, comes up a lot, especially in this, this business, because, because there is such an expertise around market, around asset classes. There's some people who have a lot of time, don't have a lot of money. There's a lot of people who have the money, don't have the time, right? So there's, you really can develop different types of partnership, equal equity, lender relationships. There's so many ways to structure projects, right? However, that also then opens up like Pandora's box. So I'll often hear women are like, oh, we're gonna go— me and my friends are gonna go buy an Airbnb together, and she's just gonna do this, and I'm gonna hold on, you know, because I've been at, you know, I've syndicated, I've— we've done that over the years, many syndications. You know, you gotta be really careful if you're legally gonna go, um, break, break break the rules of, of the SEC? Are you aligned with the SEC, especially when it comes to equity? So there's a lot around it. And I think, so there's, there's one of two ways women can sometimes stop themselves on partnering because they don't know enough and they don't have what the details they need, or they're partnering and they're doing it the wrong way and they're putting themselves, they're putting themselves and their money at risk. Because I have seen quite a bit. So before you get into that, right, time, money, what's your interest level, active, passive, the bigger question, especially with partnership, is what is important to you, right? Where do you want to be 5 years financially, lifestyle? All of that really matters. Like, what's your North Star, we like to call it within ART when we're teaching. Like, what is your North Star? Like, where are you headed? And, and is this project, is this investment, is this partnership gonna help me get there? Because often people stay here, okay, is this a good project to partner or not, right? It depends, right? It depends if you want to be more active or passive in your season of life depending on your North Star. If you said to me in my 20s, you know, what makes sense to me in as a 20 4-year-old is very different as a 7-year-old, right? It's a different, different season. I have different goals. I have children now. I didn't have children.

That's almost a different person.

It's a different person. And just like when you go out to the beach and you're like, I'm going to swim to the horizon, what happens? It unfolds again. It unfolds again, just like our goals, right? They keep unfolding. And so I think people get very overwhelmed with, with, with— people get very overwhelmed with like the now decisions. Is this a good time to invest? Is it not? Should I do this? Should I partner? Should I not? Um, versus knowing where you're headed, where you're— because then it's like either this is going to help me, yeah, or not, right? And so I, I think that's the work to do, and most people don't do. They don't have a clear idea where they want to be. So anything becomes— they don't feel clear on what they need to do next because everything seems competing. Market, strategy, right? Fear, all the things that I know. And I, I'm, I know because I am a human and I experience fear too. But I know what my North Star is. So I am measuring it against that. And that helps me get clear. And I think that's the work to do, right? Because that's the work you need to do. It's not— I can't tell you what your North Star is. You can't tell anyone what their North Star is. And that's the kind of, you know, conversations we have a lot with the women in our community is, where do you even want to be? And then where are you? And then there's a— then there's like, what's the path of least resistance? And right, and then for some, the path of least resistance is partnering. And then you can structure it in a way that makes really good sense based on your North Star, based on your partner's North Star. But people don't talk about that stuff. They get into bad partnerships. And I have women who are in bad partnerships right now. And it's tough, right? Because it's like, whoo, whoo, you know, how much at risk, right? It's like, whoo, we could have, we could have nipped this in the bud if that authentic, transparent conversations were happening. This is like a marriage. Partnerships is a marriage.

It is. It is.

So it's like marriage, right? It's not easy, but you got to have those conversations.

Yep. Such an incredible insight. And actually, I was going to ask you that question and you unfolded for me early on too. So, you know, really that alignment and it's so important, by the way, love the analogy of unfolding of the horizon. That's so true. That's what keeps on happening. Right. So having that North Star, having that end goal in mind and see if your partner's end goal, probably you're in completely two different directions, right? What is that end goal for the company, for the project, for, you know, exit plan, for example, for this particular investment, it could be two different, completely different strategies. So, so important to kind of have that North Star. Anchor it and see if both of you have either flexibility to accept each other's vision or have the same north, north star alignment, right? I think that's incredible to see into the partnership because yes, you know, partnerships form and break and sometimes it's hard to get out of it and sometimes you just have to restart, you know, from some, from somewhere. So thank you so much for that insight about the partnerships. Now talking about partnerships, You know, you and me have one thing in common. I was talking to you about a little bit earlier, is that working with our spouses. You know, me, I have worked in the same company, with the same project, same team, not reporting to each other because you couldn't do that when I was in my consulting career for 13 years. So we literally saw each other 24/7, right? And we, there was, of course, there was, you know, things to be discussed, boundaries to be drawn, you know, advices to be given and not given, because sometimes you just have to stay out of it, right? So we learned our way. Uh, what do you think that working with your husband and kind of creating that boundaries, because what happens, I mean, I don't know if you have seen this, but when you see that, you know, man and a woman, whether it's, you know, external partnership, whether it's internal partnership, people quickly perceive that, oh yeah, she is the operations, he's the brand, right? So We have to kind of establish, and I did that when I had to, you know, we worked in different projects, every project I had to kind of reestablish myself that, hey, I'm an independent identity here. I'm not just, you know, this person's wife, but I have my independent identity. I have my independent career. I have an independent approach.

Yeah.

Right. So give me your tricks of first of all, having that healthy partnership and relationship, because it's a very thin line to kind of cross over and walk over, right? So you're not stepping on each other's toes. And secondly, that how do you establish or reestablish that identity of yourself as an independent, though, you know, we really like to be in coexistence with our spouse?

Yeah, no, absolutely. So a couple things, I think the, you know, if I had one, one suggestion would be to have to have separate scheduled time that you are working on the business versus personal. And so when we don't have our weekly meetings or our kind of like business time, strategically, tactically, then that can get very hard, right? Because then we're not on the same page, right? Um, so I'll often hear spouses say, oh, we talk every day about the business. I'm like, I don't want to like talk about something every day with someone. It doesn't— that's not efficient to me. So, so the, the bottom line is to have scheduled times that you're really talking. And whether one spouse is the primary investor and the other one's more in support mode, sometimes it's, it's either that or a lot of the— or, or you're both involved in the business, right? And, and so it's like kind of knowing what your roles are, obviously, and having respect for those, but having that space to— the one thing that, because Matt and I both have a lot of opinions about a lot of things, one thing that I'll, I'll say is a tool within those meetings and something that I use in different areas, and him and I have gotten lazy and not have used, and it's caused, it's caused some friction about certain topics within our own business lately, is like basically rating different topics. So Meaning if I bring something to the table in the business and I'm like a 10 out of 10, like 10 out of 10 means like I am really like feeling a little like attached to this. I'm really on board with this idea or this approach or what have you, knowing where the other person is, because sometimes the other person is 2 out of 10 on their opinion. So in that sense, right, not that the 10 out of 10s always win, but let's level set this. Yeah, there's a gap. And, or, or it's like, cool, I'm not a 10 out of 10. You run with that. Because it's when you're both 10 out of 10 about different things, and that's competing. And so at least you know where you are. It's like we sometimes fight and we don't know where people are, or we disagree and we don't know where people are. So the numbers helps us. It's helping us get really clear, clear on that. So that's one, one thing I'd also say just be— just as much as you're scheduling time for your investments and your business, ideally during the day when kids are not around, and ideally not on personal time. And so that's our other rule, is that, you know, when we're— when we're on personal time or like family time, then we're having— trying to have date night or dinner with friends or talking more, you know, fun. I mean, it doesn't mean business doesn't come up, but we're really mindful of like Okay, what, what is the focus here? And let's just have fun, uh, because it's hard to have fun and also talk about an intense topic, right? Right. Two different energies, right? One's more like, hey, let's get this figured out, and the other one's like— me and him are like— because we— my husband and I enjoy each other. We always have. We met that way.

We have a lot of fun together, by the way.

We have fun together. And so we're— where we butt heads mostly is in the business, actually. We are very aligned in a personal sense. So We've had to work at what works for us and we have to navigate it. It continually takes its, um, like renegotiating, renegotiating what's working, what's not working. Uh, when we first worked together, we didn't have kids, right? We have young kids now, different, different dynamic, right? Then, then when we— so all to say, make sure you have scheduled time for your personal life, date nights, fun time, enjoy each other, whatever that looks like. Try to minimize business and have business time to really knock down what needs to get knocked down and everything. That would be my biggest recommendation.

Love it. Love it. Absolutely love it. I love the rating system, by the way, that, you know, whoever is like the pro or pro towards that decision or whatever that, you know, approval is needed, just taking and running with it becomes a lead in that. So there's like no competing, like, you know, and both of you, by the way, you're phenomenal together. Love that as well. And, you know, it's It's incredible to see that you both are powerhouses, right? You can literally take anything and you can make it successful in its own way.

Yeah, absolutely.

So having that kind of differentiator that, okay, this is your baby, this is my baby, and kind of, you know, ongoing level that kind of keeps the health of that particular outcome and as well as the health of your relationships. That's also important, right? My biggest learning throughout that phase was, I mean, we learned it pretty much first year. Is that the advice, because we know everything, everybody, every environment and what's going on. Advice, unless somebody seeks for it or asks for it, you don't have to give that advice, right?

Exactly. Right.

But incredible what you just mentioned about that, that, you know, the 3 things and also having that personal space because, you know, as like you were indicating earlier, right? We, we have over the period of time, even like in a couple of years, in 4 years, we just change. Entirety of what we are. We become a different person, right?

Different people. Yeah.

Yeah. And that has been happening in the personal side that we have become different person and people. And we, I mean, I, what I was 25 years ago and what with this relationship, I'm completely different person. Same thing with the businesses, because you as a business, as you start getting that expertise and, uh, you know, you're kind of, uh, personal perspective to that things, that having that personal space is so incredibly important. You know, that kind of makes you a better person to come back to the same roles and same stuff that you're doing in business. Thanks for sharing that. Just changing the topics, you know, I, I can talk to you, Liz, by the way, for hours together, right? But I do want to come back and talk about, you know, the woman who are especially listening, and even this, you know, the husband, if you are listening, just, just ask your wife to listen to this episode, right? So those who are listening and who are afraid of— and I quite often hear this, that, hey, you know, talk to my husband if I start talking about investing and opportunities and stuff like that, or just approaches or what strategies, stuff like that. And they said, no, go talk to my husband about it. And I'm like, no, let him handle You know, whatever the stocks related things. And why can't we have a conversation about outside the stocks, right?

Yeah.

So I quite often hear that, that no, no, no, I don't want to get into it because if I take it on, that's going to be another thing on me. And then everything just comes on me, right? Because I have already, and which is by the way, true, they're already handling so many things, right? It's, I always say that don't wear a cape, woman, because if you wear a cape, you're going to just simplify even if you don't want to, because it's a superwoman thing, right? We have so much. So what do you have to say? To those who are saying that, hey, I don't want to get into that, uh, because quite honestly, you know, when it comes to women and finances, my biggest challenge is that there's 4 steps to it, right? Understanding, first of all, the financial literacy. And even the smart, achieved women, that financial literacy, the financial independence, like existing independently, even if you don't need that independence, that's a Level 2, the financial freedom, which is probably men would start with that level 3. And then the legacy part of it, right? Like the generational wealth part of it. So I look at this 4 stages. So how would you recommend women who are like not even starting to that literacy and they don't want to, they're afraid to start, not because there's too much, just because they don't want to take it on.

Yeah, I think getting really honest though with yourself of like, why do you not want to— it's, it's— let me take a step back. Is it that you need to be informed, right? Do we need to be informed? Do we need to have a pulse? Uh, I think at the minimum we need to be clear on it. We either own something, we're running with something, we know everything about a certain type of investment, right? Or at least we've made the decision, we're leading it. Or we need to have a pulse on it. I think that really comes down to one or the other. To say, and I have spoken to people about, and women especially, a lot of the women in our community are usually running the investments. So that's more of like the, but not every woman in the world, right? Has that same, you know, so I think the key is where am I with our investments? And I do believe women, have, have no more and actually can contribute more on making really good investing decisions. Why I'm saying that, it's not a hunch. Statistically, when women are making calls on investments, it outperforms men, right? There's— I don't need— I don't know where the statistic is, but research it. It's a known, a known statistic. So for a lot of reasons, you want women, of course, involved in the decision-making. If not the owner of that decision, or at least as a— right, we're either owning it or supporting it, usually the two, two roles. So that's what I mean by, to your point, is a big mental load, right? There's a mental load to everything women are owning or supporting. Did they do that? I'm the reminder, I'm the Google, I'm the this, I'm the that. We can't keep doing that, and we need to honestly stop doing that and we're gonna be like, I'm not doing this anymore. So these are, these are my boundaries. This is what's working for me or not working for me. But I, I do believe women are tired of just, just investing their money with a financial planner that talks over them, around them, especially now. Women know— women's always known so much, I think, about so many different topics. But I know more now, more than ever, women are making more of their own money. They want to invest their own money, right?

Absolutely.

And, and so I, I do believe, I do believe you can be, you can take, you could have more of a pulse and take more responsibility for money and investing decisions and not feel like you have to know it all.

Wow.

Because that's the, that, that's the input, that's the crux of the issue in our lives, right?

Yep.

So, I think it's a balance, but I do believe that now more than ever, right, women are gonna outlive men, right? Statistically, the chances of having to make investing decisions are going to increase.

Yes.

Whether we like it or not, right? Whether we wanna learn about it or not. And I like talking about investing. I like making investing decisions. I do. Was I born that way? No. But I got around other people and I'm like, I make really good calls here. I'm making a good call here. Did we think of that? Did we think of that? Let's balance our active and our passive. What are we actively involved? What are we passively involved? Let's hedge our risk here. Women are great at mitigating risk. They're brilliant at mitigating risk. That's exactly what investing is. But it's— so, number one, I don't think we need to just take all the mental load anymore. I think we need to stop doing that in our lives. Right. We have to stop allowing that to happen in all areas of our lives, let alone investing. But women make really good calls as investors. They do. They just need to do it more and need to be around other women doing it.

What an inspiration, Leslie. That's absolutely phenomenal because, you know, just creating that kind of boundaries and understanding that what do— what is enough to be known to be able to jump into it, right? And then everything just kind of starts unfolding. And like I said, that I was not there. I mean, I didn't come from that background. You didn't come from that background. But the incredible part of it, it didn't take too much time, right? It didn't take too much time for us to jump into know enough and start participating in those decisions.

And I think I'll give you a really good example of like where I see women shining. That could be a great, a great way to think about investing. So for example, I'm, I'm doing a local project, a luxury build, me and my husband. So we're mostly multifamily investors. However, for a lot of reasons we said, let's do a local project because our kids don't see, visually see a lot of our real estate. We really want to do something in our town that we can get to within 2 minutes, 3 minutes. Number 2, we really, we really want to be part of this community 'cause it's a, it's a, you know, kind of Class A like boutique community and it's high demand, low supply. Always good things in real estate, right? 101. So for a lot of reasons it made sense to do something and it's a new build. So it's a luxury new build on the river. We live on the Delaware. Sounds incredible. So, yeah, you know, we're almost done with rough inspections. Tomorrow is our— so then we'll be hopefully, you know, sheetrock and really it's gonna become more and more real as a home. So, my point all to say is that I have never done a luxury build. Okay? In my 20 years. Now, I've done new construction, right? We've done large projects with a lot of zeros. In the multi-family space. But if you said, Liz, have you done this exact type of project in this exact type of community? I would say no. So I didn't let that stop me. But what I do know is I have to— you have to lean into what you do know. Okay, I know I need to mitigate risk. Okay, so I need to have Plan A, Plan B, Plan C. Women are phenomenal at having multiple plans. They are. So if you said, listen, um, you know, your kiddos, your kiddos' tournament could get canceled. They already have thought about what is going to happen, how it's going to work. Any mom, they do. That's because they know, they know the content. They have contingency plans for everything. Investing is the same.

Yeah.

So I feel like the barrier to entry, they think it's so far, it's really not. It's literally how women are successful in their lives. And so for me, okay, I'm like, all right, I don't know design, I don't know luxury, I don't have that taste. I live in a very— I love our home, but I— if you said, oh, Liz and luxury, like, that's not— I don't think people describe me as this like luxurious person who knows the perfect design of a luxury build right now. But I'm like, okay, so I need to hire a designer who knows this market, who designs luxury builds. I knew my gaps. I, I literally gapped it with incredible team that I'm paying for, right?

Right.

I had no other choice. What was I going to do, wing it? Oh yeah, I'll just go on ChatGPT and figure out what design I should do. There's no way I would chance for a $5.7 million sale of a house.

Absolutely, absolutely.

I can't chance that. That's too, that's too much at risk, right? So women are phenomenal at mitigating risk, they're phenomenal at contingency plans, and they're phenomenal of knowing what they know, what they don't know. That's what investing is, period.

Love it, love it, right?

And then so if we'd use that same approach, that's what I'm doing now. I know how to build a team, I know how to put a deal together, I know how to manage it. I've been around, right? So I'm not worried about that. But when it comes to certain decisions and design, I could have let me— I could have like, no, I don't know design, I can't do that. I didn't let that stop me. Yeah, but I'm certainly all over my, my gaps because I have them.

Yep. Yep. So knowing that, you know, enough and also understanding what you don't know and what that gap is that, and I think we are good at it. Right. So by the way, I mean, very curious and very interested to see where it ends. I would love to see some pictures of that project. But very well said that, you know, understanding where we kind of lack and filling those gaps with those experts that who know how, right. That filling that, I mean, sometimes we just hear these things, but that's time to implement it, to understand and kind of pull that plug. I think that's important. Just if you are to like say one thing, right, you know, to the women who are listening and want to take that first step, that they haven't taken that first step, what, what do you think that could be the first step? You know, they decide that this is my North Star, but this is my first step that I want to take.

I think, yeah, after the North Star, the next thing is that women bring so much to the table already. Yeah, right. So before I did this luxury build, I already brought a ton to the table. So if I didn't realize what I brought to the table, I would have talked myself out of that project, hands down, right? I could, I could have talked myself out of it. I could have talked myself into it, right? So my point to say is that women really, really getting clear what their skills are, what their strengths are, what their knowledge be. I'll talk to women all the time and I'll talk to women in finance. I'll talk to women in finance and I'll say, you bring so much to the table for investing. Oh no, I don't. I just know, I know how to read a P&L. I know how to read this and that, but I don't know about real estate. I said, okay, so you know that that's all to, like literally if you're going to evaluate an investment, That's literally the skill you need to have. That's all you need, honestly. That's the key, one of the keys, right? Being able to understand numbers. And so I say that all because it's very rare that I talk to women that they don't bring something to the table, something to the table. It could be sales experience, marketing experience, it could be, um, real estate. The amount of women I talk to in real estate don't realize the connection. So start there, start with like your top 10 phenomenal strengths, skills. If you don't own them, you don't know them off the top of your head, and you can't riddle them off, go talk to people because they'll know them. They'll tell you. They will tell you all your strengths. Talk to your— you know, talk. So that's— to me, I, I just want to shake women because I— they're so phenomenal. They're so like— they're in their own way. And I— and it's not because they don't have confidence. Women are confident as hell. It's just putting our confidence in the right things. I don't believe that women are not confident. I think they're confident as hell. It's just a matter of getting some of this out of the way and really surrounding ourselves with other women like that, like this, so we can have those conversations and we're not alone in our own thoughts. That's the key.

It's almost like peeling of the onion, right? And it's like, yeah, understanding ourselves much better. And once we have that identified, that, okay, this is my skill, Madhavi Nade Jain, to be putting into it. So go identify that skill, because one thing I have seen is that we adopt so quickly and so well. So this is what you have been talking about, is what is that skill set that if you don't know, just go ask somebody, because the way the world looks at you is completely different than what, what credit— yeah, you're not giving yourself enough credit, right? Uh, so thank you for saying that. And with that, I want to kind of talk about When you're pulling all these women together out of their house, out of their communities, and at one place, and it's less than a month away, or yes, yes, over a month away, and where really these partnerships are happening, really the people are coming in and identifying each other's strengths, identifying the partnerships, identifying where they want to be. You are, you know, InvestHerCon that's coming up. Do you want to talk a little bit about that? And sure, $1.95 billion in assets with the attendees. That's incredible. Kudos and congratulations with what you have achieved.

Thank you.

Tell us more about that.

Thank you. I, you know, last year we had about 250 women and we had $1.95 billion under management. We had over 55% of them had at least 5 properties or more, and at least 45% of them had at least $1 million in net worth, obviously besides their, you know, personal residence. So these are women who are active and passive in real estate. Across the country, nationally, uh, you know, they're different geographical areas. But the key is— the, the key piece that pulls everyone together is they're looking to grow their wealth through real estate on their own terms. Our, our community— our— this will be our 5th annual conference, 2 and a half days. We do not get on stage and say, hey, based on everything going on, this is the one strategy, the one way. There's no one way. And I don't believe that there is one way. It depends on the season that I'm in. It depends on the goals that I have. And so what I really embody with our conference is that it's, it's all about two things that women are going to walk away with. And it's June 14th to the 16th in Scottsdale, Arizona, um, at a beautiful Omni. It's the number one rated spa in Arizona. So, um, but what two, two things women are going to walk away with because it's not just hype and rah-rah and everyone's excited and no one does anything. Because I, I, I can't, I can't be part of that, right? I'm obviously investing my energy and time. We need to make, take results and make things happen, move the needle as they say. So there's two things women walk away with. One is a support system. So you will walk away with five women who you can call your support system as a result of the conference. Second thing they're going to walk away with is a plan. Again, part of the conference is we have keynotes, we have breakouts, we have intentional breaks, all of which is around 3 things: real estate, mindset, and business. And we have sessions on cost segregation, we have sessions on estate planning, financial planning, the economy, real estate, obviously investing, core topics. But it's, it's not 101, it's 201 in the sense of, okay, where do I want to be? Where am I? And what are some paths that might be right for me and where I am? That's the bottom line. That's what we do at the conference. We have over about 27 companies coming, all have been literally handpicked lenders, insurance, like really solid companies. And come, come be with us because it's for women who are active and passive that are looking to grow their wealth through real estate, but not do it alone and do it with, quite honestly, pretty badass women doing it, to be honest. So that is June 14th to the 16th. They can check it out at TheRealEstateInvestHer.com/InvestHerCon. This will be our 5th one. And I'm happy to share like a $100 coupon with everyone. Yes, absolutely. If you go to the website, TheRealEstateInvestHer.com/InvestHerCon, it is for $100 off. It's IC, 26-100. I see, I see 26-100. And, and I'll also just say one more thing. Something else we're doing is encouraging moms to bring their daughters. And we're going to have a whole promo of bringing your daughter for 50% off. So I'm really excited about that too.

Love that. So thanks for, you know, being so gracious and offering that discount code. I think if you want you don't have conference on your list for this year, or even if you have, this is the conference that you want to be, and incredible amount of energy in the room. So thank you for sharing that, Liz. So with that, our next kind of segment is called Think Outside the Stocks, as the name of the podcast and the company. And it's just not the outside the stocks, but outside the box kind of approach to life and wealth, right? So I often talk about, you know, people come to me and say that, hey, when the next investment coming? What are the returns? And I always say that, don't, don't ask me that question because, you know, if you, unless you ask a right question, you don't get a right answer. Right. So that's like thinking like a frog in the pond and you see the problems and solution around you, but you've got to change the perspective and think like an eagle. And then suddenly you see different problems, but you also see different solutions. So it's about growing, preserving, protecting, and passing your generational wealth. So with that, you know, in this segment, I want to ask you, Liz, that how do you think outside the box? And the question is a little bit loaded, right? It's just not about what your expertise, what, you know, whether it's real estate or something else. It's just not about that expertise, but about really holistically looking at growing, preserving, protecting, and passing your generational wealth. What are the different kind of strategies and outside the box strategy, outside the stock strategies that you have implemented that You know, already audience by just listening to it will trigger something in them that can change their trajectory.

I think for, for, for us and our own personal investing and just our journey has, is it's, it is continually talking about what you want life to look like in the next 3 to 5 years. I think just that really helps you decide how active, how passive, and all the things we've been talking about. Beyond that though, for, for, for me and my husband, you know, this, this luxury build is an active project, right? It's a short, it's a, it's a project where, you know, we bought it for X, we're going to put Y into it, sell it for Z and make a profit, right? That's not necessarily, is that like literally giving me tons of passive income? No, but it's serving another purpose. So I know the purpose it's serving, right? It's going to create, um, capital to invest in something more passively. So the, the, the strategy that me and my husband have right now is that we have obviously an active business, multiple businesses, then we do have investments that are yielding passive income, and we have projects that are yielding capital to then redeploy into passive opportunities. So that's where we are. We've been so active for so many years that we want the pendulum to shift from less active and more, just more passive. We are invested in passive projects. I want that pendulum continually increase. So, selling some of our active for just pure kind of passive mailbox money, if you will. Balancing it out. So, I like to think about percentages. And so, again, like we're selling a building and we'll it's done very well, will do very well for our investors, and we'll, you know, make, make a decent amount of, you know, money from that. We're, we're continually talking to our accountant to say, okay, what is the tax implications? What is the capital gains taxes? What is everything that's going to be pending for us? Then we can make the decision. Do we need to do a 1031? Do we need to deploy? Could we just deploy that cash? Call it good because we have more You know, something deferred that we haven't used. So it's all about talking to experts before things are done. And that's what Matt and I do, and that's how I like to teach it. And I know exactly what we're doing with that money, and I know the tax implications now before, you know, we have a planning, planning, then paying for it. So, so for us, right, you know, I think people have to hedge. Do I want to be active and have a lot of upside, or do I want more of a I want a consistent rate of return on my money and 10%, 11%, let's call it good because I have that amount of money deploying that. Or other people, oh, I want to go and make it. So, using the active projects that are more like cash generation versus tried and true passive opportunities, got to know what the pieces of the puzzle that you're looking to do to lead you towards. Where you want to be, back to where you want to be. So, right now, we have, you know, passive opportunities. We're investing with other operators. We don't just invest in our own deals. That I love when I get my check. It's great. You know, it's lovely, right? And so, but you have to vet the operator. You have to vet the deal. And how do you do that, right? So, that's how I like to think of it is like, what's the blend of active and passive? What is it today? Where do I want it to be? And what are we willing to do when we have different money coming in? And how do we best deploy that to get us to where we want to go? That's really strategically where we are in our kind of process. And what do we need to do more of? What do we need to do less of? What's working? What's not working? Right? All of the above. Because our businesses are investing.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, But I would say that we often think it's going to take us to be the active ones on everything. And I'm in a season where I want to do less active, right? I want to— and I love the project we're doing. I love this luxury book for a lot of reasons. But would I want to scale a luxury business? No, not necessarily.

Knowing what you want to— I mean, again, going back to what you earlier said, right? I think everything that you're doing, having that north star in mind and kind of building towards it, right? I think everything that you do just naturally happens that way. So love that, you know, that diversification of even operators and including yourself. I think that's the key. So love that integrated strategy that you have. It kind of keeps on molding and building itself as you go forward, right? Thank you for sharing that. Absolutely. So with that, we have come to our last segment. And this, I think, is the most fun segment. And I'm just so incredibly grateful for your patience. And, you know, before you even know, it's almost close to 1 hour that we have been talking. It doesn't feel like it, by the way. So incredibly grateful for you just sharing so many gems. It's like nuggets, gold nuggets. Just, you know, I'm gonna look back and listen to it. It's just incredible, incredible discussions that we have had today. So my last segment is going to be rapid fire. It's like I said, that, you know, short questions and quick answers, 60 seconds to it. And that will be our final kind of a segment. Great. So are you ready for that?

I'm ready.

Perfect. Perfect. So here's the rapid fire as it comes. Biggest lie women believe that you have seen?

Hmm. They need to know everything themselves in order to move forward.

I love that, love that. And we talked a lot about, about that, so thank you so much for that. Uh, before the event, as they walk in, and after the event, you know, what is the transformation that you see? And it's 2 and a half days, it's not like, it's not a long amount of time, but still, that before and after, and what is the transformation that you have seen that just incredibly made you happy?

I think goes, it goes from like uncertainty, confusion, not sure, to clarity, focus, and support.

Amazing, amazing. And I can imagine, I can imagine that, uh, one transformational story that, you know, you have touched thousands of lives here, but one transformational story that just has stayed with you in your heart.

Hmm. I think it was when we were running our meetups. There's been a lot, but we were running our meetups. We had a meeting. I'm sorry, it was like a kind of regional event. And there was a woman that stood up introducing ourselves and she goes, I'm so grateful to be here. I'm so grateful to have found your community. We're like, that's great to hear. And she goes, no, you don't understand. I was told for years how I wasn't good with money, how I would never make a good investor. I've always wanted to invest in real estate, but I was told by my then-husband that I would never make myself be able to— no, not make myself, make anything of myself, excuse me, in investing. And she goes, I don't believe him. I just recently divorced him. And I know I can do— I know I can with the support around all of you. And I'm just so I'm so grateful to be here. And I remember her, that voice, and I want to say she bought a handful of properties, at least. So, it was really neat to see that belief system getting transitioned and transformed into actual properties on her own terms. And she figured it out. And she's a smart lady. And I don't think she's unique. I think that's very common, right? Whether it's the spouse or the upbringing or whatever story, right, with like one figure in their life. Yeah, that we transition it and transform it. Um, but yeah, that, that's been— that was a cool transition and story to, to watch unfold.

Wow, wow, incredible. Wow. On that note, we have come to the end of our episode today. Uh, time just flew by, but incredibly, incredibly grateful for such an honor honest and such an empowering conversation and just kind of, you know, unfolding that someone listening can just dig through the deepest of their heart and start uncovering that question. So we are— we did kind of trigger something in them. I'd like to believe that. And yeah, and it's just wealth is not just about strategy, right? It's about the confidence, the community, and we're kind of trying to rewrite the stories and you are to rewrite those stories. It's incredible, incredibly powerful that the stories that they have been told about money, just kind of forgetting and wrapping it, covering it up, and bringing and creating their own new stories. There's no yet their own, um, a new kind of a dialogue with themselves and outside the world, right? So for listeners, um, if today's episode resonated even a little bit with you, and you know, I would really challenge you to dig deeper and ask that question, one question to yourself. Take that one step that will start making that change. And think about, you know, joining Liz to her InvestHerCon that's coming up in about a month. And if you want to, you know, if you have that confusion, that fear in the mind, and you want to walk out with the confidence and clarity like Liz mentioned, and be part of this incredible journey, please joined Liz, and it's going to be incredible, uh, to have that. Uh, again, Liz, uh, such a powerful conversation. Thank you so much for being here. Truly, truly grateful.

Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you.

Thanks for tuning in to the Think Outside the Stocks podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please like and subscribe. Madhavi Nade Jain is on a mission to change the financial trajectory of one family at a time with 1,000 more to go. We hope you'll be a part of this vision. Please join our growing community, and to get your journey started, visit thinkoutsidethestocks.com to download your free guide on active income with passive real estate investments. If you learn something new, please share it with one person today, and if you have 60 seconds, please leave us an Apple