EP22:From the First Lady of Lending: Understanding Real Estate Loan Structure w/ Julie Anne Peterson

We really want to know about these general partners. Where do you live? How many transactions have you done? You know, we really want to get educated because here's the thing, we don't want somebody over in New York who's doing a transaction in California because they can't get on a plane in two hours and be at the asset. So as a passive investor, you want to be asking those questions. So how many transactions has this general partner, how many have you done? Do you have assets in the area? Right. Where do they live? Be questioning how many deals have they done together as a team? Those are really important questions. As a passive investor, are you frustrated.

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Hey, hey, hey. Welcome back to another episode with Think Outside the Stocks. And today we are going to talk about lending. I know what you feel about that. It is such a complex topic and sometimes when you remember, you look back and remember your closing of your primary home or your rental property, you don't want to do that all over again, Right? But as a syndicated real estate why do we want to talk about it and with an expert today is because when you understand what are the things that happen behind the curtain, you will be equipped to ask better questions to the syndicated team. So that's the reason we have our expert today here, Julie Ann Peterson from Old Capital. And I'm so excited to have you here. Julianne, welcome to Think Outside this Dogs.

Well, thank you so much for having me today. I'm excited to be with your audience.

Thank you so much. And you come with so much of expertise and so much of energy. Julian, when I first met you and I saw the, you know, it's kind of a very straightforward and the strength of the energy that you bring in in this world, which is male dominated, you know, the lending industry has been male dominated and you have spent so many years and carving your path kind of just to keep going up this uphill of the mountain and you have your flag up there. So Julianne Petersen, kudos to you and you know, I'm just going to quickly give your introduction and I always like to talk about a few interesting things about our guest, maybe three or four. So Julian Peterson, she is graciously referred as the first lady of lending. So that's how much strength she has in this world. She's a senior director at Old Capital and Old Capital itself. And we will talk about Old Capital, Julian, in a few minutes. But itself is a big, big lending institute and we will know in few Hawaii. But Julianne, she is, you know, the most interesting fact about her is that she is that, you know, people connector. She's not just about the expertise in lending but she comes from the same purpose and passion that think outside the stocks that I come with the purpose of educating people. So it's not about always that business but the place is that educating, adding value, solving problems. And that's where she inserts herself in this complex world. And she is also known for her reliability of closing which is very, very important when it comes to lending. And she has a great, great meetup called Zoom at 8, which she is adding tremendous values. Think it's going on for about four years. Right, Julian? Y. Yeah. So let's jump right in. Julian, I'm so grateful for having you. Thank you so much again for joining. Let's talk about, you know, what I missed about your own story, your own career and also about old capital. So tell us, how did you come here? How did you become this?

You know, well, you know, it goes back and I hate to, to date myself, but I started when I was 18 years old. I was probably 14. I when I said I do not want to have a landlord, I want to be able to buy my own assets. I want to not be paying someone else's mortgage. So actually when I was 22, I bought my first house. It was in Los Angeles. And as everybody knows, you can do great in real estate and you can lose in real estate. And my first project in real estate, I lost, I lost $80,000. But you know, I got right back on the horse and we doubled our money back. You know, back in the 90s I went from Southern California to Northern California and the dot com, we did great, doubled our money, then brought our assets to Chicago and took me 11 years just to make $50,000. I had great cash flow, but I was used to, you know, Doubling my money very, very quickly. So I went from appreciation to cash flow and it was a completely different way of approaching the way to do this multifamily. And in this process I started to get lenders that said, go away, go away, you can't do this. You don't have enough assets under your belt, you don't have enough partnerships, you don't have enough net worth and liquidity. And it was very frustrating. And I said, I am never going to treat any of my people when I become a mortgage lender. I'm never going to treat anyone like this. And that is what I decided to do when I about 15 years ago. I said, I want to be a mortgage lender. I ended up selling all my assets and getting into, I got up to a 20 unit building. I had probably 50 units total, but my 20 unit is as large as I could get. I sold all my assets and went into multifamily as a limited partner and went into the mortgage business and I have four kids and at the time I just, my husband was traveling a lot and it was just too much on my family. So I said, I'll be back and I continue to invest in multifamily. And. And then I came back about six years ago and came to old Capital and we've been, you know, making things happen with education programs and trying to really help new investors, help passive investors understand. How do you get in? How do you look at deals, how do you underwrite deals? How do you make right decisions? Does this make sense? And that's where I developed this, you know, Zoom at 8. Because I did not want anybody to be treated like go away. You know, there's a lot of mortgage brokers, there's a lot of lenders that just say, I don't have time for you. And that's not what I wanted to do. I just didn't want anyone to go through that.

That is so, so interesting, Julianne. I mean our struggles is what makes us right. When I was doing the passive investing and I was struggling to get the right education to even get the high qual and that's the reason I formed to think outside the stocks. So I think that aha moment for you that happened when you got denied and you got, you know, like turned away from these lenders. So thank you for doing that. Thank you for actually changing what troubled you the most. So kudos to you for that. Thank you for sharing your journey. Let's talk about the old capital and you know, the lending process and you know, you Guys put so much education out there and you helping the first time passive investors to kind of climb up that ladder someday become that active and then beyond, Right? Yes. So let's talk about old capital. Can you mention a little, a little bit about that?

Sure, sure. So, yeah. So old capital has been around for 38 years, actually. We started in Dallas. We do a lot in Texas, you know, for everybody. Three loans that are done in multifamily. Now we'll do other asset classes, but we really are specialists in multifamily. For every three deals that are done, we do one of them. And, you know, when you're looking to do a loan, you want to be with the right lender. We're mortgage brokers, so we go out to a number of lenders. You know, if you're going out by yourself, especially as a general partner, you don't want to be doing this by yourself. It's just like trying to, you know, you don't want to go out. Let's say when you, when you have cancer, you're not looking for the cheapest doctor, right? Or you're getting your, you know, your facelift. You're not looking for that. You're looking for the one that has the best credibility, who can close this loan, who has who. Who can do that? And that's what old capital. We've closed over 6,000 loans. We close 1.2 billion a year. So when a general partner wants to have somebody on their team, a lot of people look to old capital. And we have great relationships with brokers, real estate brokers. So when they brokers say, hey, what's most important to them, which is putting money in their pocket when they find out that old capital is on the team for the general partner, a lot of them will say, we'll put our clients, who are the buyers in the front of the line. And you know, we'll close. So it's important you know your lender is your biggest partner in this deal. So as a passive. Here's the deal. As a passive, you're going to be getting into the deal, right? And you're jumping into the deal before it closes. And what happens is when you're, your lender will say, okay, we're going to provide you with 70% loan to value. You know, we're looking at the deal. We're underwriting the deal early on. And there are some mortgage brokers that will say, oh, no, no, no, I can get you 75%. Okay. Remember, we're all going to the same. A lot of us are going to the same place. We're going to Fannie and we're going to Freddie. There's only one person at Fannie and we're going to one person at Freddie. Okay, we're all going there. So we should all be getting the same number. But there are mortgage brokers that will say, no, I can get you 75. And Julie is saying 70. I'm not making this up. There are brokers that are doing that to try and buy the loan. And so as a passive, the general partner will come to the passive and say, oh, by the way, your shares are, let's say, worth 33%. You're saying, yes. And I know that by putting my hundred thousand, I'm going to get this amount of return. Well, five days before you close, that broker lender will come in and say, oh, by the way, I cannot get you 75. I can only get you 70. So now your shares as a passive are no longer worth that same amount. They are now diluted. That is not good.

Okay, Right.

So that's why we, you know, you always want to work with a lender that is telling you the truth up front. So the expectations are real and are deliverable. So that's a little bit about old capital and why we really want to give you the truth up front.

Right. I love that. You know, you come with so much of experience, you know, 1.2 billion in a year, not total in a year. That's what how much you close. And then that reliability of closing is also so important. Right. Changing the terms last moment, you know, some of the lenders out there, that's, that's where the tricky, trickiest part of this whole syndication process happens. Right. So thank you for sharing that, Julianne. And then for passive investors who are listening. Right. Why are we talking about these things? Because though you are not on the loans, though you are not getting involved in this planthora of complexity of the loan, it's good for you to understand that your shares, you know, just what Julian expressed right now, that your shares is your share. The percentages, you know, should not swing up and down just because of that Lending. Lending is so, you know, the minimal, the basic that comes in, in the deal. Right. I want you to simplistically understand the, you know, complexity behind it, which is going to be a little tricky, but we will try best to do that today with Julianne. So let's talk about Julianne, the difference between the single family and the multifamily lending. Because, you know, the single family is directly with the owner. Right. The, the landlord has it. So can we talk about a little bit about that? And you know how passive investors is kind of shielded in when it comes to the syndicated real estate.

Yeah. So there are two different types of lending. There are, you know, single family and that's typically going to be recourse lending. Okay. That's going to be where you have 30 years, you're paying principal and interest. Right. And you're paying that off monthly. There's no interest. Only if you default, they're coming after you, they're coming after you personally. Okay. That's real simple. That is called residential lending. That's 1 to 4. When you buy a single family duplex, triplex, quadruple, all those go under residential. No commercial lending is available. Nothing that is non recourse is allowed in single family lending. Now you might hear multis, multis are considered your twos, threes and fours. I love multis, twos, threes and fours. Because you can get this residential lending, it's much easier. But you have to remember you are personally liable if there's any default. Now there is. When you go over to commercial lending, there is recourse lending, meaning you are personally liable for these at five plus if you decide to work with a bank. So five plus does have recourse. But the great thing is we also have agency, whether it's agency, Fannie or Freddie or you have bridge financing which would be also non recourse.

Right.

So non recourse lending allows you to, it actually removes you from your personal liability. So you, while you are signing on the loan, you are taking credit as a general partner, right? You, you, when you sign, you actually take responsibility. Your days of experience start the day you sign or the general partner signs. You are not going to lose your home if you default on that loan right now. Are you going to, if you default, are they going to give you a second loan? Agency? Probably not, but you're not going to lose your home. Okay. So that's one thing. The agency loans and bridge financing, they're going to give you a longer amortization which is 30 years. On bank, you're usually only going to get 20 to 25 years. So that's going to be on bank, it's larger monthly payments as opposed to your agency. So 30 years you're going to have smaller payments. What you're going to have is interest only, a term of interest only. Now on a five year loan you might have one year of interest only. On a seven year loan you have two on a five or on a ten year loan, you have five, three to five years and even potentially a full term interest only, believe it or not. So there are ways to structure these loans so that you can only be making a small amount of payments and returning a lot of capital to the investor. That is the beauty of these agency loans and that is why syndication has become so popular over the last 15 years. Agency really wanted to play in this space because agency said hey, there's only a couple people in this space. It was only the rich, you know, oil and gas people, maybe attorneys, maybe doctors that were buying up the majority of these assets. And the government said, hey, here's an opportunity, we can pool our money, but the government will basically hold these assets. But there's actually four things that you have to as a general partner need to qualify for these assets to get these types of loans. I think it would be helpful to cover those.

Yeah, absolutely. And before we actually jump into that, do want to step back a little bit and what you said is very important, right? There is that recourse loan where if something gets wrong with that, you know, the default happens, they're going to come back behind your assets. Right. So if you have all these documents that you have provided, that's what basically what's backing up that, the liquidity, the 401ks, the stock market portfolio that you have, that's essentially what they are going to come after. But in the non recourse when the general partner, that is the syndication team on the loan, typically they can, you know, do these agency loans which are the non recourse. Right. So in terms of the passive investors, they're far, far removed from this process. So they are not the one on the loan actually. Right?

That is correct. And you know, listen, I did this single family and small multis and large commercial, you know, larger but not, you know, not 120 units. And it was on my shoulders, right. If I defaulted, it was on my shoulders. Every day I was thinking about it, I was responsible.

Right?

Now that takes it off of, it takes it off of you as, as a passive, you're putting it on the general partners, but the general partners in a non recourse loan, it's, it's, they're managing that money for you, right. And when we talk about the stock market, you know, let's a little bit dive into that, right. You know, it can be very frustrating and you can feel like you are kind of a prisoner if you don't know that there are other Vehicles out there other than the stock market. I know for me, until I found out that this could be a, you know, buying and selling multifamily, I felt like I was a prisoner in the stock market. I, all my Money, all my 401k was sitting in stocks and until I was able to find other options, I was at their mercy.

Yeah, that is so true. You know, being the prisoner, I always used to have a question that why are they forcing us to just invest in stock market in your 401k? It's just the lack of understanding. So you bring a good point there. So thank you for mentioning that and going back to your earlier step that you were mentioning that you know, those four things that you were talking about. So let's talk about what are those four things about the non recourse loan that we should have.

Right. So four things on an agency loan that you are required to have. One is the asset needs to be stabilized. Now stabilized can be understood in a couple different ways. But for an agency loan, they look at stabilized as 90% occupied for 90 days. So when a general partner is looking at different brokers, they need to communicate with them and say, I will only look at assets that are 90% physically occupied for 90 days. Now they can look at something that's been for 30 days because it's going to take us 60 days to close this. So we're going to look at, and by the way, these agency loans look backwards. All right, we're looking at the cash flow from T3, we'll look at T1 which is this month, this past month. T3 which is the last three months. T6 which is the last six months. T9 that lasts nine months and 12 months. We're looking backwards. So in essence we as the broker or the lender can only give the new buyer the proceeds of based on how this seller ran this business.

Right.

I know it sounds kind of crazy, but if this seller has not performed in this asset to the degree that maybe the buyer thinks that they can do it, unfortunately that's as much as the, the lender is going to allow them to get in proceeds and proceeds meaning in loan amount.

Right.

Okay, so the 90% occupied for 90 days is your first target. Second, is net worth greater than the loan amount that you have to have net worth. Now that net worth can be from one person or it can be from a three or four people, five maybe on your team. So when we build our team of general partners, we're looking for a solid group of people that can make a decision.

Right.

Remember when, I don't know if you remember when you were a kid, 1 and 2, when you had a, when you had kids at your house, two people was great. When you add a third, things didn't go so well. You had a fourth sometimes and a fifth one. It was sometimes difficult to get everybody to play well together. And that's making decisions well. And so if you can have net worth from one person and you have a, you know, there's two in your group, great. Making good partnerships is hard. So finding net worth. So let me give you an example. Net worth greater than the loan amount. If we're Talking about a $10 million deal, that's the acquisition price. And right now we're seeing 60 to 65% loan to value. So the loan at 60% is going to be a 6 million dollar deal.

Right.

I need 6 million dollars. Should be. And 1 and 1 cent. It should be a little over. So 6 million and 1 cent coming from your, your general partnership.

Right.

So it's going to be me and you. We're going to be the ones that are bringing it now. We're going to be the ones signing on that loan. We are taking responsibility. All right. The third piece is liquidity, and this is called post close liquidity. So I mean I need 10%. So on 10% of that loan amount of the 6 million is 600,000.

Right.

So that again can come from one person or three or four.

Right.

So keep in mind, I'm going to ask about 5 to 10% of the equity coming from the general partnership.

Right.

But I also am looking for 10% post close. So I need 600 and I also need the equity of 4. You know, you got 4 million, right? Right. Of the equity. So I need 400,000 coming from the general partnership.

Right.

All right. So those numbers, you have about a million bucks that you need to be thinking about.

Right.

All right, so those are, those are the numbers you have to be kind of picking apart. The last one is experience. You can't drive a car until you have experience.

Right.

You cannot drive this transaction unless you have experience. So we need two years of three to five transactions.

Right?

Two years, three to five transactions. So you're looking for that person and hopefully that one. There's one person that can check each of those boxes. That's optimal.

Right.

But not always the case.

Right.

So those are your qualifications to get an agency loan.

Thank you for sharing that, first of all. And thank you for sharing that in such a simplistic Manner because, you know, it's a complex topic to understand. So again, passive investors are listeners today. This is what your GP team is going in these four criterias that Julianne just mentioned. The occupancy being above 94, 90%. The actual net worth of the GP team. Not you, you are again far removed. Just the GP team who are signing on the loan, that 10% liquidity and you know, to close that 5 to 10% equity coming from the partnership. Those are the most important aspect that as a lender that they are looking at. Because I think lender, you know, that is the cheapest money that will be in the deal, right? It is what, you know, currently whatever, the 6, 7%, but that's the cheapest money. And the partners are actually going to make that cash flow, going to make that equity. So they're looking at maybe double that that of the, the annualized returns then what lender? So they are very careful, right? You are very careful lending that money.

We are. And you know, we really want to know about these general partners. Where do you live? How many transactions have you done? Yeah, you know, we really want to get educated because here's the thing, we don't want somebody over in New York who's doing a transaction in California because they can't get on a plane in two hours and be at the asset. So as a passive investor, you want to be asking those questions. How many transactions has this general partner, how many have you done have? Do you have assets in the area? Right, right. Where do they live? Be questioning. How many deals have they done together, you know, as a team? Those are really important questions. As a passive investor.

Thank you so much for sharing that. Because, you know, unless they have some boots on the ground, I mean, it's again, it's a. It takes a village, right? Synd is a really team game. So unless we have these different partners, kind of have their expertise when it comes to having this network and liquidity and experience and, you know, boots on the ground. This is, this cannot be a team. And another partner in the team actually, even if it's external, is you. Right. I mean, you are one of the partner who's going to make the success of this syndication even possible to start with.

Yeah, we are your biggest partner.

Yeah.

We are bringing, you know, as high as in the good days, 80% of the money to the transaction. So, you know, the general partners are making relationships with people like us, with people that they know like and trust. So we're gonna be, you know, understanding where they're going and how we put the, the debt, the right debt at place with their business plan. Because we want to know what is in, what's the end in mind. We got to know where we're going and are we putting the right vehicle in place to get to that end result?

Yeah. And that actually.

Yeah, that I was going to say. And that has been some of the challenge that we're having right now.

Absolutely.

I don't know when this is going to be airing, but that's some of the challenge that we're, we're having right now. And really outside of people's control.

Right.

Because a lot of people, you know, before COVID we did a lot of 10 year term, right. And we did a lot of 10 year term yield maintenance loans. Yield maintenance is a, it doesn't, you know, okay, yield maintenance and step down is another prepayment penalty. All of these commercial loans have prepayment penalties, Right. And we didn't see any movement, real movement in the interest rates before COVID so there wasn't any real prepayment penalties.

Right.

So the number one loan that we did for years was a 10 year agency loan, Fannie and Fannie loan.

Right.

We would even roll in some rehab. We can no longer do that.

Right.

We've had compression in the cap rates. Things have really changed. And so about three years ago, Covid came, interest rates went down, everybody lost their jobs, you know, unemployment. And people found themselves with a lot of money because we put, you know, gave money, you know, left and right, printed a bunch, threw it out there. And people said, hey, I've got all this money, I've got all this time. Let's go buy properties.

Right.

They left, you know, they said, forget it. I can go and buy properties. I can get acquisition fee after acquisition fee after acquisition fee. They quit, quit their W2s.

Right.

You know, and then about March last year, 22 interest rates went from 0.05. Now these were adjustable rate bridges where we were getting 75, 80, 85% loan to cost. That means you only had to bring in 15% of your capital. It was nothing.

Right.

Everybody was successful and they were doing loan after loan after loan. But March came and the interest rates started going up and up and up to the point. Now we're at almost 5%.

Right? Right.

And you know, we, some people did not put rate caps on these deals. And by the way, a rate cap helps you. It's like an insurance policy.

Right.

And they didn't put rate caps on it. And so the, these People's cash flow. These deals are no longer cash flowing. They're in, in some substantial concern and problems in these deals. And so there's some opportunities, let's put it that way.

Yeah, thank you.

Coming up.

Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I was just going to ask you that, you know that how did you even get here? So you explained it so well. I think what you mentioned that the core problem is that, you know, there are so many new syndicators that got flooded into the system. There are so many students that, you know, new syndicators that got flooded and you know when they are looking at properties and underwriting hundreds of property, analyzing hundreds of it and getting frustrated that it's still not working out. So let's just, you know, do something, work it out. And when they have to compromise on the lending terms, whatever seemed easy sometimes, right. And there's no right or wrong about it. But you know, not having that rate gap which is as Julian is saying that, you know, as you're saying that it's the insurance that you know how much fluctuation it's going to have having that 85%, you know, loan to value ratio. And in addition to that, some of these bridge loans, they even provided them the, the renovation budgets also. Right. So they could draw based on what the renovations are going on. So that kind of created this situation. Now the property values have gone slightly down and now they do not have so much of values in this big huge multi family properties. Right. So can we, can we talk about that? And you mentioned the problem. What is happening behind the curtains? Are you seeing as you know, broker, are you seeing a lot of kind of bank tone properties coming bank to the lenders or they're still kind of putting their head out of water and trying to make it work, trying to struggle. And what strategies are they using to. To keep floating?

Yeah, I think there's a lot of strategies going on. I think that first of all expenses have gone up considerably. So you know, you've got inflation that is hitting. Our rents are going up. So that's great. Like the fundamentals is still there. However, we've seen a whole bunch of new construction come and hitting the market.

Right.

So that is significantly impacting these A's and some of the B's did in certain markets.

Right.

So when a lot of these syndicators went and said, you know What, I'm expecting 15, 20% increases, that is no longer happening.

Right, okay.

And so what's happening on the loan side is if they needed to Get a new rate cap because sometimes they took out a two year rate cap and we're going into the third year rate cap. And I mean, I'm a limited partner. I'm also a general partner on a deal of my own now as a limited partner, we took a lot of these lenders now are requiring, even though the paperwork does not say you, you know, you're going to have to buy a third year, they're requiring that we collect a third year in advance. So in year two, you're getting a phone call saying, okay, we're here to collect for that third year rate cap. And it's not like 13, $13,000, it's like $80,000 every month, right? And then, oh, by the way, in six months I'm here to collect 120,000 because it, these rate caps have gone up so significantly now. So that is impaling a lot of these deals. So what I have seen recently is trying to refinance, right? So this is one thing, refinancing into another loan if we can make it happen. And what I have seen is we are seeing capital calls, right? So if an investor like yourself came in with 100,000, you might be getting a call to bring in another $25,000.

Right?

Now that is just to hold your shares and not get them diluted. Now you might have them diluted if you don't bring in the 25 and it's out of your control. I don't have the 25.

Right.

Unfortunate. But that is what we're hearing. That's number one. Number two, can we sell this Potentially, that's, that could be put potentially. Or maybe if we're refinancing it into another bridge, maybe there's an opportunity to go to this next bridge where we, we're not buying a 1% rate cap because that's what we required on the first loan.

Right.

But the second loan is a three and a half strike rate cap. So it's less expensive. So what we, what we have to do is we still have to collect on that rate cap at one, right. But I can sell it back and I can then go buy this other one. So I'm, I'm crediting my sale on that rate cap and then I'm buying a new one. So that's a possibility. Or I buy maybe an agency. So that, that also could be. So there's, there's about three different. And then there's also maybe if you do sell it, that you sell it and you stay in the deal as a You know, this seller financing.

Right.

You know, here, here's the thing. It's not all doom and gloom, but I would tell you there is this idea that if you can hold, get your money back that you invested over the last three years, that's a win. That's a win. If you put your money into a deal over the last three years that was in a bridge.

Right.

You're winning.

Yeah.

We're also calling it survive to 25.

Wow. Wow. Yeah. And then interest rates, they're going to start the moment, you know, by that time, hopefully in the right direction. But thank you for so much for sharing, you know, those, those different aspect of it, what's going behind the curtain. That's really important for passive investors to understand because a lot of them are upset right now that the cash flow is dried out. Well, cash flow drying out. I think it's the last of your problems. Right. It's if they went in, in that capital preservation mode and they are putting this, more escrows, more money, because the lender is that the rate cap is coming due now. Now that's the expenses that they have to hold in a, you know, in an escrow account. So it's not like they're using it right now, but they're holding it there. So that's very important for a passive investor to first of all understand what's going on with your current deals. Right. Thank you for sharing this. Even the strategies that they can, you know, look at, understand when the, the syndication team is applying these strategies you are mentioning.

I, I would, I would, I would say absolutely 100% agree with you. And I would also also point out that this is probably not something that is, you know, nobody, nobody would have seen this happening. This is, this is historic. Nobody's seen interest rate go up this high this fast. Yes, you did see it earlier in eight, you know, was 1987 where they went up quickly, but it was over a year. This is quick. So this is not something that is being injected into your deal. This is happening across the board.

Yeah.

And it's not that your syndicator is a bad syndicator. They are simply being affected by this.

Yes.

Because of, this is a circumstance.

And on the other hand, Right, what do we have? On the other hand, there's a stock market which is a mayhem there. So it's, you know, at least in here, maybe if it said five years, maybe it'll take, you know, a couple more years. Maybe we need to be in these deals for a little longer. Like you Said like survive till 25, so maybe more years. But you know, real estate being backed by that real tangible asset that still has its, you know, pros in a way. So thank you so much for sharing that. And we kind of, you know, are, you know, ending our segment now. We talked so much and we do wanted to talk a little bit more and maybe we can create like a bonus segment for our listeners which will just explain the same in simple terms what this, you know, the multifamily lending, it's little bit more detail in. So going back to, you know, one last question before we jump to the next segment. So is multi family in your opinion, is is it still good investment? Should they still consider investing in multifamily?

Absolutely, always. You know, I would say it's recession proof. We're still across the board. You're still having some depending on the area, you're still having rent increases. Are they as significant as we imagined? Probably decreasing a little bit, but on average they're still increasing. Right, right. So that, that is great. As you mentioned, it's a hard asset. So no one can take that from you. You still have the tax deductions. Great. So all of those things, you don't get these things with the stock market. I'm bullish on multifamily.

Yeah. Thank you so much. And I was going to ask you in my next segment that how do you, Julianne Peterson, think outside the stocks?

I think also, I mean I would say I'm going to also start to look at diversifying my portfolio as well. To what extent? Maybe 15%. I do take my husband invests his money into his 401k. My money I have put in, I've taken out of my for my IRA and put it into my solo 401k. And all of my money goes into my multi family. So I invest in multifamily and those assets can be put into other, you know, asset classes. So oil and gas, there's some funds out there I will be looking at, you know, strong storage. Also RV parks are, you know, a hot thing right now. So I think there's probably about 15% I'll be looking to diversify but I'm still, still very bullish on multifamily and we'll be looking at assets.

Any other areas that you diversify other than multifamily and stock market that you would like to mention.

So again I'm gonna say I'm going to be putting in probably the oil and gas, the oil and gas fund. I've looked at ATMs interesting because great for cash flow. Yep. But not the upside. I really like the upside.

Right, right.

The cash flow has always been an interest to me. But I do, you know, I, I've historically been appreciation. I really like the appreciation play. So. Yeah, yeah.

We actually storage. We actually have an ATM deal and of the funds and one of the things that I like about it is that your capital gets back to you in first four years. So now you can reinvest in something. So at the same time you have three more years that's coming back. So even if it's not appreciating and it has a really heavy cash flow, it's de risking your capital.

Yeah.

So I really like that. Yeah. You were mentioning about more self storage.

Probably self storage. There's also RV parks is something that I really. It's hot right now. They're developing new ones. You know, they have the amenities that are, you know, part of that. They're putting in theaters. There's been some real success. So I'm starting to look at those, those things as well.

Thank you so much for sharing. And with that before we jump into our last segment which is kind of a fun round, rapid fire round. How do they get in touch with you?

Yeah, so I'm on all of my social media. So you know your LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, I'm on those. Also my Zoom at 8 you can find on Facebook. And also if you wanted to join us, go to dancinginvestments.com and you can sign up there.

Yeah, and I'll put all these links in there. And Julianne, you are very active on social media as the kind of omnipresent on social media, you know, answering questions, adding value. So thank you for doing that. So with that, are you ready for our most fun round, the rapid fire round?

Well, I hope so. I hope I'm ready.

Thank you so much. So let's do this. The one word that you are known for, if you're somebody to explain that this is Julianne.

I would say enthusiastic.

Yeah, I like that. I love that. And I have seen you almost on every conferences and more that I have gone to. What's your favorite conference?

Well, I have to get give old capital and do our conference in September. And here's why. I am all about educating. As I mentioned on my zoomitata's education platform, Old capital does an amazing job of educating. We're not selling, we're educating. Giving information to investors, to general partners. We really give you for one day a Real good sense of what's happening. And I just, I love it. It's very, it's not expensive and it's got rich information.

And I'll put the link to that conference also in my show, notes for the people to find out what's the worst and the best deal that you have ever seen.

Oh, the worst deal.

And that's not necessarily your deal, but you know, as a, as a broker also. What's like the worst and the best that you've seen?

I have a terrible memory for the worst. I always start to think about the positives. So I don't know about that. But the best deal, you know, I just interviewed On Zoom at 8, Katherine Schmartz. Schmelz, sorry. And she talked about one of her deals that she returned on. A hundred thousand. She returned in less than three years, 480,000.

Oh, wow.

And she only changed 10 units. She upgraded 10 units.

Amazing.

To me, that is a real big win. Home. Home run.

Yeah. Wow. Incredible. Incredible. Thank you for sharing that. And being this powerhouse of a woman that you are, what is that one advice that you have? Either the woman in business, women in real estate, or women who are trying to be in the real estate.

Yeah. You know, I heard a woman say this one time, they were asked that question, what do you do as a female in this industry? And keep going, just do your job and keep going. Don't get stuck, don't get held back, do your job. And I don't want to get stuck with playing a part, a role. Feel bad for me because I'm a female. I just don't. I've been in three. This is my third industry as a female in a male driven role economy. And you find your, your way and you just do the best job you can. Whether you're male or female. You just do your best.

I love that. Just keep going. I mean the listeners, you just keep going. Male or female, just think about that. Keep going one day at a time. Right? Just keep taking action. Thank you for sharing that. And with that, I really, really want to thank you again for joining us and for this, you know, know, simplifying this complex topic and for giving this value tidbits to our listener. Thank you so much again.

You are welcome. Thank you for the invite.

Yeah, absolutely.

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