#25: Freedom education - with Manisha Snoyer

That is one of the things that homeschooling allows is for the family to have the freedom and flexibility that they crave. They're not confined by school to a certain location or a certain schedule.

I love it. Yes. Manisha, I'm so happy that you're here with me because I need to say I'm a huge fan of your podcast. You are.

Thank you.

You have a wonderful podcast. It's called Teacher Kids, and it's all about exactly what I preach all the day, like, be open minded and we are alive, responsible. Yes. So I'm just happy that I meet you because I think you have so many valuable insights out there. And actually I love that you're putting them out there because so many people I meet on like everyday basis, they are geniuses, but they keep it to themselves. And I'm like, no, no, we need that knowledge out there. So I'm super happy that you're here with me because you share your knowledge and that makes me like, I'm impressed. I love it.

Thank you. Well, I'm so happy that people are listening and it's wonderful to connect with you because likewise, your podcast is just wonderful and you've brought so many great people on and have so many wonderful insights into education. So it's fantastic to be able to connect.

Nice. Thank you so much. Yes. I want to hear everything about you, of course. Like, how did it started and how did you end up doing that podcast?

Well, it's a funny thing. I'll go way back, since you asked, but I never really chose this career path or homeschooling by any means. My mother was a Montessori teacher. I was raised by a single mom. And I always thought the last thing I ever want to be is a teacher. It just felt so dry and boring to me. Kind of not juicy, right? And. And funny enough, one night I was dreaming, I think it was in my early 20s, and I had this dream like, your mom was a teacher and you're going to be an even greater one, like Moses or something coming to.

Me in my dream.

It was just one of those very. And I rarely hear anything in my sleep, so I kind of put that aside. I did not want to be a teacher. And then. But my. My passion in life was acting. And so I always wanted to live in Paris. And so When I was 21, I went abroad from college to an acting school in Paris. And I found that I needed a way to earn money. And so there was only one thing I knew how to do, which was teach. Of course, you know, and so I started tutoring for a young man who went to the American high school in Paris and then to Australian kids. And I just kind of had this little niche for myself on the black market in Paris, tutoring American and Australian kids. And then I moved back to New York City and kind of the same situation. I was not making it at acting, but I was making it at tutoring. And eventually I started to get asked to substitute teach. And somehow over the course of 20 years, I've taught over 2,000 children in three countries. And because I was a substitute teacher, I really got to see the whole spectrum of the education system from what is offered at $60,000 a year, to the children of the CEOs of the world's biggest banks, to what is offered to a family on welfare in Harlem at a Title 1 school. And this just huge contrast between schools in Brooklyn, where on one block you could have a school that felt like a prison where everyone was yelling at the kids. And right next door you could have a beautiful, pristine school that was focused on whole child development and, you know, just that horrible disparity between, you know, I'll just name it what white children and black children are getting in their education and their public schools in this country. And so I really felt like our education system was broken at every level. Just inflexible, slow to change, traumatic really for children and their families and simply just didn't make sense. And I know you talk about money on the show and decentralized finance and I also thought at one point I had a three month stint as a music teacher at a very well established respected public school in Brooklyn. I think the principal is still one of the best there is. And I had this room, 30 students, it was an IEP class and every single musical instrument in that classroom had been donated by the pta. And so it was just, you know, it was insane to me that there was, you know, this 20,000 allotment per student and that we didn't even have a single musical instrument that wasn't given by a parent. And so during that time period, kind of along the side, I started a French language school. I was in like, you know, and I, and I was kind of thinking, you know, I really am not making the kind of impact I want to make in the world through my acting. Sadly, I still love the theater. I love Chekhov, I love Shakespeare. But I just knew, I've always known since I was a little girl that I wanted to heal some of the pain that I see in the world. And the more I researched, the more I felt like the source of that pain was coming from a broken education system. And then if I really wanted to heal the world suffering at its core, I had to start there. That was the, that was the place that made the most sense, where it didn't feel like I was just putting a band aid on a wound. And so I started thinking about, you know, what are some ways that we could do this? And I started thinking some more and more. And my first company was actually a marketplace for micro schools. So I was helping parents and teachers start their own homeschool co ops or small schools. And the idea was that teachers know best and if you just have a classroom and a group of kids, you can build the world's best school. But through that process, I started meeting a lot of homeschooling families because a lot of them were attending homeschool co ops, which meant two or three days a week. And I heard Peter Gray speak who you've had on your show, and my mind was blown. And it was a whole paradigm shift for me where I had thought, children are taught, we develop strategies to help them learn information. This is the approach to the world and to teaching. That made sense to me. And what I saw is that in fact, children are learning all, all the time. And we can help facilitate this natural curiosity they have by giving them nourishing food and shelter and supporting their growth mindset. But we are not really taking a needle and inserting information in their brain in any way whatsoever. And I became aware of how so many people were so afraid of this unbridled, wild, wonderful energy of children. And that, that is sad. It's unfortunate because that energy is extraordinary. And so I just started becoming more and more interested in this world of homeschooling and unschooling and seeing such incredible positive outcomes in the children. And so after a while, I started to feel like micro schools. Even though I have many friends who have micro schools. I love micro schools. It just still felt too limiting in my opinion. And I really wanted to build something that was empowering parents to curate their children's education as they see fit. So that's why I started a new company that's focused on providing information and support to parents and curating the ideal education and really trying to build a new movement where we are empowering families to take back that power over their children's education that they have absconded through the traditional school system.

I love it. I wanted to say that I see so many similarities And I love it because what I actually am trying or at the moment, I'm, I'm falling a bit into this rabbit hole of kids energy and their wilderness and these kind of things. Because for a long period of time I thought I'm weird in believing in energies. I could feel it. But my surrounding was always like, no, there's just physics and that's it. And this is physics as well, so it doesn't matter. But my, my surrounding was quite limited in approaching these kind of things. So I took a lot of, I don't know. Yeah, effort I would say, in researching and, and feeling and talking to other families that feel the same actually. Like they have feelings and they, they see that energy in their kids and they can feel it as well. And I think this is a very important part because in the society I grew up, there was no room for wilderness, there was no room for being, for, for talking about energies or any kind of these things. So I think this is so beautiful because I see the. My kid, he is super wild and he has just a different energy. And for example, when we travel and we are like in a city like last time we've been to Madrid and instantly shut down, he was like, ah, no, this is not the surrounding. I'm, I'm vibing in. So his energy was like put down and he wanted to watch TV and these kind of things. So there's a shift in energy if they are not in the surrounding that they need. And I like what you say that we provide food, shelter and these kind of things. Love and to make them just have this cocoon of safety that they can develop themselves in from the inside out. And I think it's not so much about feeding them any kind of information. It's more or less like keeping them the way they came into this world because they came into this world as little perfect beings. And then we try to operate on them, on their brains, like you have to be like that or programming them into a certain kind of way we think it should look like. And I'm a teacher as well. So for the longest time I was thinking this has to look exactly like that. And then I realized, no, I'm fucking stupid. I'm so fucking stupid because I'm kept. I have my own prison, my mental prison of expectations and of crazy things. I adapted from a very sick society. So now my biggest goal every day is to let go. No matter what it is, just let go. And I see a big change in my kid and I was really good at influencing him. Like, oh, here's a book, let's do like 10 minutes of maths and these kind of things. And he isn't buying it anymore because he feels that I'm not in this movement anymore. Like this vibe, like, making him do things. I really felt that when you said, like, this is all too limited, because I felt the same. Like, I'm playing like a role in a theater of, I don't know, homeschooling mom or something like that. Or even when we started homeschooling, I still had so many crazy expectations for him and myself. Like, of course that's crazy, isn't it? So how do you do when you think like, okay, I have something that I need to let go. I feel limited and all these kind of things because I see it's not always easy to let go, because sometimes, for example, I feel crazy.

Like, of course. And that's fine, you know, I mean, I once one spiritual teacher, I've done a lot of meditation in my life, and that is one route I take towards seeing what's in front of me as opposed to what I'm conditioned to believe. But one thing he said to me, which made a big impact, was that if we remove all of our cultural conditioning, we would just drop dead on the floor. At a certain point, we're learning some of these things in order to function in a society so we can forgive ourselves that we're not perfect all the time. And what I would say, what I tell most parents is that, of course there's that inner work. You know, when you turn inwards and try to listen to your gut as opposed to listen to your fears, you are going to know what's best for your child and your family. And so just cultivating the courage to listen to what you know and give yourself the benefit of the doubt and your child. The benefit of doubt is the first step, but also critical is surrounding yourself with community. Because it's just too intense to be alone doing something radical and have everyone around you saying, don't do this. And being part of any homeschooling community is going to help you when you have those moments of self doubt to remind you why you're taking this path and also hold you accountable when you might not be making the best decision for your child. You know, I mean, one example is that, you know, many, many children do learn how to read in an unschooling environment, especially if they're surrounded with books. But some children do need explicit phonics. And if you're in an unschooling community. And everyone's saying, don't teach your child to read. And you feel like, oh my gosh, I really need to teach them how to read. They want to learn how to read. That's great. That's your gut, you know, and so that's where a community can be supportive. And not to mention sharing childcare and resources. And so that, I think it's those two things together is doing those practices. For me, it's meditation that will help you undo the conditioning and come to a place of calm. It's basic self care. Could be as simple as taking a walk in the morning. Whatever puts you into your place of groundedness and truth, but then also surrounding yourself with the community. I think one or the other doesn't work. You have to have both.

True. I really like that because I think the community, I was missing that a lot in the beginning of unschooling, and I felt so weird, like, oh, my God. And then I discovered, no, I'm just not well connected. I'm not the weird one. I'm just not well connected. And when I found my tribe, my unschooling tribe, it got easier. And actually, I need to say our nervous system is co regulating with the people we spend time with.

So, so true.

It makes sense to spend time with people that are on the same vibe, journey, whatever you want to call it, and you just benefit from each other, from each other's strengths, vision. And I like to. I don't want to go too deep into some kind of spiritual or philosophy or any kind of this, but if you're on the same way, it's way easier to manifest something. Even if it's just, let's unschool. Even if it's just that. Just imagine you have like, super strong friends that are with you in that it's going to happen tomorrow and not like, you're in the. Incredible, isn't it?

Yes. And I do want to also pick up on one thing you were mentioning around the wild energy and going to Madrid and not being the best environment, which is that so many of our spaces are not built for children, especially in the US and to some extent in Europe as well. And it's just, it's funny when you know, if someone's listening to this and feeling skeptical, like, come on, I need to teach my child to be civilized. I need to contain that wild energy. And then think about how many books, podcasts, gyms, personal trainers, like, just intense effort we put as adults into trying to get ourselves to be physically active when as children, that comes to us naturally and then we can find that energy and we try to recreate it. But you know, a child that is allowed to run around freely as their body dictates is a child that's going to be in good health, that's not going to need to go to a gym or get a personal trainer because they're going to be strong and capable.

True. I like it a lot. And I actually think this is maybe even going deeper because like science is telling us, and I hide this believe in science, but there is actually good science out there as well. And it's clear that these constructions we are in all day and schools, especially schools, they are built in this, in this very strict rectangle way. Like, dude, that is not how our brains thrive. They suffer. So it's harder to learn inside that disgusting classroom. Even if you take the same material that sucks, but outside it's better. So I think a lot of people don't realize that being inside, we're definitely an inside generation. We should spend so much more time outside in the wilderness. And secondly, if your kid can't concentrate, maybe it's the walls, the materials around it, like be open minded in this case as well. And there's actually a woman, she's called Rita Trombin and she's from the Biophilia Network or something like that. And she's talking about how our brain is affected by shitty constructions and these kind of things. I love it because I always have this pressure in the morning, like going outside to the beach first thing in the morning. And, and I couldn't do it because my work schedule didn't allow it. And of course if, if your kid goes to school, you can't just go to the beach every morning. But now that I changed a lot of my life, we almost go to the beach every morning and just having a fresh start there.

That is one of the things that homeschooling allows is for the family to have the freedom and flexibility that they crave. They're not confined by school to a certain location or a certain schedule. They can curate the childcare schedule that's right for them. They can travel the world if that's what's right for them. They can get up at 5am if they like, or get up at 11am and so a lot of people think about this and say, oh, well, I need school for childcare. And I say, what kind of child care does school actually provide for you? Is it helping the quality of your family's life? And is there an Alternative approach that you could use.

True. I love it a lot. And in the beginning, I was super afraid to take care of this freedom. Like, what? I'm allowed to go to the beach every morning. Like, big wow. But in the end, yeah, we deserve that. And just because others don't have it doesn't mean that I can't have it or I shouldn't be happy about having something that others don't. And then I think, okay, complete.

I mean, you chose it for yourself. And that will allow other families to follow suit.

Yes, I really hope that. So I wanted to talk about risks because I think for me, school is a risk. If my kid is at home, I don't see the risk, but society sees it other way around. I don't care about it at all. But how do you manage this kind of risk of uncertainty and maybe even fear of what is gonna come next? And I like to stress maybe that it's not easier if there is a society that is putting pressure on you and you just have to shield that from your kid. Like, you're the one. Like, no, that's not gonna touch my kid's vibration at all. How are you doing that? How are you maintaining your peace.

If you're a parent in school or if you're a parent homeschooling? Well, I feel that for many parents, when they send their children to school, they might feel a level of discomfort, but they might think that this is the best option available to them. And in most cases, it takes things going extremely wrong before they are able to make the leap to homeschooling. It's very rare that things are just okay. You know, that kids come home and say, meh, school was okay. I'm not really learning as much as I'd like. I was kind of bored. And it has to be, you know, really intense oppositional defiant behavior, severe autism, something a bullying incident there. There's usually something really terrible that happens. Unfortunately, that that makes it possible for a parent to make that change. It's changing a little bit now. We see more families who have children who are diagnosed as gifted, who are choosing to homeschool. Homeschool starting to be more socially acceptable. But then once they make the leap to homeschool, then they kind of can look back and realize how crazy that entire system was. Of course, teaching my child one on one is going to be more effective than a group setting. Of course, allowing them to pursue their interests is going to be more effective than a standardized curriculum. Of course, choosing a curriculum that suits their unique learning Modalities, whether that be an adaptive learning app or a nature based curriculum, is going to be better than this incredibly boring corporate curriculum that they use at school. It's so obvious, right? And I have the same thing as a teacher because sometimes I'm preaching homeschooling and I feel like a little bit weird, right? You know, I think, am I going too far? I don't ever want to be in a position where I'm giving propaganda. I want to be reaching out my hand and giving options to parents, especially the most underserved. And so I start wondering, you know, is this, am I misguiding people here? Surely the system can't be that messed up. And then I set foot in a classroom and I realized it really is that messed up. This doesn't make sense. I mean, you know, you and I, we run our own businesses. If we were, let's say we wanted to learn how to create a financial model, would we just go to any school? You know, the last thing I want to do is take the financial modeling class at the library. This is going to be terrible, right? Or use some kind of standardized curriculum. I would go online and try to find the most compelling, most exciting financial modeling. And I would probably have to do it in a live project based way because I cannot sit and listen to a lecture. Other people totally love listening to videos. So I would have to find the way that worked for me. And ultimately I would probably teach myself because it's just the way that I learn best. And so. But kids, we just expect them all to learn in the same way at the same time. It does, it just doesn't make sense. And so I think once people step out of that system because of desperation, they look back and realize, I mean, just what was I thinking?

That's nice. Yeah. I really hope that because I saw a family here, they were going back and forth like school, no school, school, no school. And I see, like, what is the issue? What didn't you get the first time you put your kid into school? Now it's the second time, third time? Like, I'm just wondering because you're keeping coming back to both sides. And I'm just curious now, okay, what side is going to win? But in the end it doesn't matter for sure.

And the other thing we should probably say in terms of mitigating risk, I mean, if you really go deep, if you're privileged enough to be a deep thinker, and sometimes it takes a lot of unconditioning to get there, if you truly are curious, you start thinking about like, what are these standards that are taught in school? Are those the things that my child really needs to learn to be successful in life? Obviously, no. I mean, just in terms of basic, the way we measure success, getting a job, the math that's taught in school. No. The reading that's taught in school. No. Nothing is really preparing your child for a career. And then when we start thinking about entrepreneurial skills, it's nowhere to be found. They're not developing autonomy, resilience, confidence. And then if we really go deep and start thinking, I want my child to be happy and to be able to achieve any task that they see, set their mind to and to be a caring, considerate member of society, then the whole equation changes. But if you're just, you know, if you just started homeschooling, you're feeling anxious. There's a very simple solution. Take a test, standardized test, and see how your child is doing. I mean, there's the MAP growth test. It's very easy to just simply take a test and see how they're measuring up. And generally they're going to be doing better than a child and school because they have this one on one learning environment.

Yeah. They will be much happier as well. And I think this is how maybe we need to change the, the conversation about success because I see a lot of very successful, like in quotes, people out there that are so unhappy. And then I, for sure, yeah. And then I meet so many really happy people that are not society norm successful, but that they're really successful. So I'm wondering like if this is even. Because now I, I today there was a huge discussion here because schools are being closed because of extreme heat. And people were like, oh my God, the kids are falling behind. And I was like, dude, behind of what? Yeah, like I don't even get it. You, you consider it so important what they do in school. I don't, I'm very sorry if I offend anyone, but it's not about a very majestic school here like that. It's just a normal, traditional school. And it's not like they're being prepared and being happy, following their soul path. And I, the last couple of years it became so clear to me if I don't follow what my soul is wanting me to do here on this planet, because it's not only my body. I'm more than that. I will be so miserable. And we are robbing kids the opportunity to learn that as well. And this is one of my favorite topics at the moment. What do you Think about that.

Yes. I mean, and even a step further, I think you would agree with me, is following the child's natural curiosity and honoring that through billion years of evolution, they have developed a capacity to know what they need. And you as a parent have developed that capacity. And it's a dance that you do with each other. And, you know, I think compared to radical unschoolers, I think perhaps I can be a little more traditional, in which I say, do an hour of math and an hour of English language arts. Find a really fantastic curriculum that your child loves. And same with learning the basics of writing and reading and literacy. And then from there, whatever your child wants to learn, go for it. And I think that those core foundations are tools that allow children to open up the universe, but it really only takes 30 minutes to an hour to master them. And if there's a lot of resistance or fighting going on, just forget it. Another thing is that children might not even know why they're learning it. And that's a big no. No. Don't ever ask your child to learn something and not give them a reason. They deserve that.

True. It's a bit about being respectful with each other, because I'm not a teacher for kids. I'm a teacher for adults, like teaching them German. And of course, they come to the class because they want to learn. And of course you are in some kind of exchange with them, like, what do you need? How do you want to learn? But I didn't see that in school. And I've been in school and I've been, like, involved in kindergarten management and these kind of things. And I need to say the kindergarten was just awesome. Democratic kindergarten. And I always saw, like, they are in contact with the kids, like, what do you want to do? What do you want? You know, what are you craving? What are you missing? And these kind of things. And I don't really see that. And if I imagine I'm living with someone and they are treating me like kids are treated at school, I would leave this person the next minute.

I mean, just watching principals yell at children because they're not standing in a straight line in the hallway and they've told them to do that before and shaming them around that, I mean, that's absurd.

That's crazy. What do you hear most? Like, the most frequent questions families have that come to you or that you are in contact with?

So the first question everyone asks is, but what about socialization?

Oh, yes, I love it.

And I usually. There are a couple pieces to it. First of all homeschooling is very social. The movement has grown a lot. It's not difficult to hook into a local homeschooling group, sometimes a bit trickier in rural areas, but there are strategies. So I help families figure that piece out. But I also reframe the question from but what about socialization? To how do children develop their social capacity? And many parents think that children learn how to socialize by hanging out around peers the same age, when in fact it's by having that secure attachment with their primary caregiver that gives them the security to develop friendships and relationships with others. And so I think that's a paradigm that really has to shift. There's a wonderful book I probably recommend in every single podcast called Hold Onto youo Kids by Gabor Mate and Dr. Gordon Neufeld. And it just changed everything I believed about socialization and how we learn to make friends and interact with others. And then just look at the different stages of your child's development, what they need at each stage. A child before six really does not need to hang out with friends. They're same age maybe a little bit when they're around 8 or 9, and, you know, so that's the biggest thing. But what about socialization? And then number two, I think that parents have a real fear around, you know, how do they make sure that their children are on track academically? And so there again, it's actually kind of an easy fix. You have to start by setting your own goals. And then, you know, you can. There are these tests, there's the MAP Growth test. Homeschool boss administers it. There's mobimax, if that's important to you. And the other aspect is if you choose a high quality curriculum and I've built a curriculum planner for parents, then that will also kind of ensure that your child is on track. So I would say those are the two big ones that I normally get.

Yes, let's talk about bonding. Because I was being called crazy for not being able or I didn't want to. I would have been able, but I didn't feel it to give my child to daycare. When he was very small, he went to daycare in kindergarten, like when he was three and a half years old. And I went with him every day. I was working in the same kindergarten. And then I started going back to university. And it was always like for two, three hours. Then I got back. So he was always super close to me. Now I'm working, he's right next door doing his own thing. So I'm never really, really separated from him a couple of hours maybe. The craziest thing I did was I went on a trip with a friend to Croatia and he stayed on the island where we lived with a very lovely family that were like the best four days of my life. But I need to say I wouldn't choose that lifestyle over being with my kid. Like, not at all. I couldn't. So I'm really crazy when it comes to bonding because I think we are like, the parents are the most important bonding providers out there, and we, some of us mess it up crazily. And I was very sure that I want to be a really good bonding person for my kid. And until now, I don't really see the need. He's 10. He doesn't need to be three days away from me and hang out with I don't know whom. So I'm still super picky. And he's very picky as well. And I like that about him that he's like, no, I don't want to sleep over there. I don't like that family that much. And he's really protective of his own people. I really am proud of that because I wasn't like that as a kid. I was like pushed to go to do and it wasn't really respected how I feel while being in that situation. How do you think about that? Because I think unschooling families, they have. They have great opportunities to each day so much.

Well, again, there's this natural instinct we have which society tells us is wrong. Parents are said that when they drop their child off daycare the first day or the first week, I've observed it so many times, just heartbreaking screams and tears and yelling and don't go away, mommy. And we read all these books by the experts saying you're just supposed to rip the band aid off, but make sure you say goodbye before you go out the door. And it just. Everything in our body is telling us that that's wrong. And yet we're listening to these experts telling us that's the way it's supposed to be. So the first thing I would encourage parents to do is to dive deeper. If you have such a strong impulse like that, if your child is crying when they don't have a daycare, maybe that shouldn't be happening at all. And I feel like that bond between parents and children is so sacred and even, and it gives children greater freedom and autonomy. And one of the things we see is there's very little adolescent rebellion among homeschoolers. They kind of just ease on to the next phase, and they're very autonomous. They're just running all around town using the subway system themselves. And then they come back and then they go away. And they don't have any trouble forming a separate identity. And I think that part of that is that security and that unconditional love. And one interesting data point is that we see in a lot of these elite private schools that kids are dealing with suicidal ideation and addiction. And the first thing that the therapists work on, interventionists, is healing their relationship with the family. The family bonds is where it all starts. And so if you have that secure attachment to begin with, children are probably not going to be taking refuge in their peers for that kind of identity. It's that their primary caregiver is going to stay the same. And so I feel like that secure, just children and family spending time together, it seems like the most obvious thing. Look at every other animal in the animal kingdom, you know, and. And yet somehow we think it's good for us to be sending these tiny little children away from their parents. And I understand that some people have work commitments, but to do it because you think they need to hang out around kids their same age, just not. There's no scientific evidence in developmental psychology that supports that. And if it is a work issue, there's workarounds. You can there. There's more enjoyable jobs that you can do. Sometimes less money, sometimes more money that will allow you to spend time with your child. If that's your natural impulse.

I love it. That's really cool. That's the first time I run out of questions. Not because I don't have anything, like. Not because you're not interesting, but I think, like, that is. You have such a huge universe. I would love to know everything about everything. That is maybe the issue. Maybe something that is not really related to unschooling per se, but that is super interesting for me. If it's too personal, just tell me.

Oh, no, sure. So maybe I think a good segue is just how I see homeschooling and unschooling in that I have always been very interested in spirituality. And also I come from a family that really values education. I was raised by a single mom, and just academics were always very important to her. And so those two things have been happening at the same time. When I was three years old, I saw these monks walking around the lake and I wanted to follow them. And my mom dropped me off and I walked around the whole lake and I met the Dalai Lama when I was six. And at one point when I was seven, my great grandmother was actually a Catholic nun and I decided to convert to Catholicism. And my mom was agnostic and I just wanted to be Catholic. And so from the age 6 to 18, I just held mass in my home every week. And then I became Catholic when I was 18 and I also. So. And I'm also half Jewish. My, like, my ancestors escaped the holidays holocaust from my grandfather's side. So I've always had an interest in spirituality and yoga. And you know, in my 20s, I became very unhappy, very depressed, just really a lot. And so I really dove deeper into meditation. And what I found is that what it did for me, I didn't have some big aha, awakening moment. But the obvious became more apparent. You know, simple things like if you teach your child one on one, they learn better. It seems obvious, but we're just so clouded with all of this other kind of information and things coming at ourselves. You know, another simple thing might be, hey, if you drop your kid off daycare and they're screaming, maybe that's traumatic. I'll investigate this further. And so it's not like as simple as just seeing the truth, it's just seeing the obvious. And so I think that is an important point where to me, this whole worldview that is so ingrained in us of teachers know something we don't know. Sending a child to school is good for them. We need that school solves a childcare problem for parents. All of these things we take for granted when we take the veil off, they just don't make sense. And so I feel like that shift to homeschooling and unschooling really is a spiritual process in that regard. Seeing the obvious in front of you that you just couldn't see before.

True. I love that. Sometimes I'm thinking about how we gonna change. I mean, we are contributing to society.

In.

In the very sense that we are not contributing to society, that we are not teaching actively like these kind of things. But what do you think? What is the impact of? I mean, it's a growing movement, not only homeschooling, but do you think how is it gonna be like in a couple of years when all these unschooled homeschool kids are flooding the market and I mean, society is going to change?

Well, I have great hope because I'm an eternal optimist. And I also have some fears because I think that sometimes I see people writing about homeschooling and modern day homeschoolers and it makes it sound very consumeristic, like people are outsourcing their homeschooling by buying classes and tutors. And what I see, the really sacred power and beauty of homeschooling is that parents are not, in fact, outsourcing their children's education. In fact, they are realizing that their child's best teacher is them. And that through billions of years of evolution, they have evolved to be the best possible person to educate their child. And so it's my hope that that movement will encompass that which is most beautiful about homeschooling. And then I would say the other thing we didn't really touch upon is the idea of true community. And we live in this era of intense loneliness. And due to the decline of religion, for better or for wor, there are fewer places for communities to gather. You know, the theater and churches and synagogues are kind of one of the only places. And so what is really extraordinary about homeschooling is that communities are gathering around this shared value of education. And there's so much resource sharing that goes on in those communities. They share childcare, they share clothes, they share skills, they take care of each other. If one parent is having more trouble than the other, they teach classes, they form homeschool co ops. And so I feel like that is what a community should look like. And I use this word should rarely, but I really mean it in this case. A community should exist to support each other, and that exists in homeschooling. So it gives me great hope for an enlightened age. And I think perhaps the core of my work is around cultivating true community.

Tell me a bit more about what are you planning for the future? Like, I see you swag. You're just straight on your soul path. And I want to know what is next.

Thank you so much for asking. Well, the main focus of my work is building community, and I have this teacher, kids community. It's. It's kind of a joke in that I think kids actually teach themselves and we're there to support them along the way. But I am excited about the community to grow bigger. We have a podcast and we also have an online community. And eventually I want to build technology that will allow for a decentralized education system that could replace public school, where families can find friends in their area or around the world. They can find the best tutor for their unique child, they can find the ideal curriculum for their child, they can measure their child's progress and that any family can use it. And so I'm just, I'm really excited to be at the center of this new and growing movement that has so much love and so much intelligence in it. And I think we're on the verge of something even more, much more massive than we see now, as this movement spreads around the world and people learn how to relate to each other in a more authentic, loving way.

True. I love it. Sometimes people, of course, text me like, oh, my God, I was listening to that episode, and it makes me feel like that. And I was so afraid to start that podcast because of any kind of negative feedback. I'm not like, oh, my God, I'm unworthy because something someone said, something negative. Not like that at all. But I. I just think, like, it's unnecessary. I don't need it. So I was like, if I start that, blah, blah. But then the only feedback I received so far was so positive, so lovely.

Absolutely. I mean, it's changed a lot. But I think it's important to remember that parents are so judged. They are judged more than any other group, and it's completely unfair. You know, first of all, if you're not a parent, don't be judging on parents telling them, oh, don't go to school or don't homeschool. What business is it of yours? It's so hard to be a parent. And if you are a parent, look inwards at your own family. Don't be, you know, turning your nose up at other parents, telling them how to raise their kids. Just cut it out. Right? It's so hard already to be a parent without everybody telling you how to raise your child for sure. And, you know, and the other thing, I guess we didn't talk about it a lot, but the whole reason I got into this line of work at all in the very beginning was to expand equity in education, because, not to mention, we're sending our kids to schools that are basically prison pipelines. And that's not an exaggeration, that's a fact. But there are so many children who don't have access to any education at all. And giving a child the opportunity to learn how to read, to learn math, to learn coding can absolutely change the course of their entire life and change the course of the world. I mean, if everybody knew programming, we would have cured every single disease known to humankind. Cure climate change. I mean, it really is at the root of all evil. And so I think that, you know, if you can empower families to educate their children by giving them access to technology, fun curriculum, helping them have the confidence to learn with their child, we can make it possible. It's affordable for every child in the world to learn. Not creating, you know, copycats of Western schools in Africa, but any family anywhere, giving them the tools to help their children follow their natural curiosity. That is what's going to change the world. So it really. This, all of this homeschooling, it's rooted in equity.

I love it. That's awesome. We're almost at the end of this episode, and I need to thank you because you are so tapping into what is meant to be your way, and it really shows. I love it, and I really hope that other people see that, too. Of course other people see it. What am I saying? But it's awesome. I really love it. It's really nice to see.

Well, it brings me so much joy to be connected with you, Alex, and you represent so much just truth and love and who you are as a human being. So I'm just excited about what we're going to create next together now that we know each other.

Thank you. Awesome. How cool is that? And I truly mean it. It's me.