Drug Testing, Physicals, & DOT Compliance During COVID19: Assume Nothing

Okay, we're gonna be going live on YouTube in 2 seconds, so hang on. It's preparing, it's setting up, it's taking our webinar to YouTube, yah yah yah, redirecting, blah blah blah, and we are— yep, we are We are live on YouTube. All right, so, okay, so we're gonna let people in. It's 2 o'clock. All right, ready?

Ready.

Ready. All righty.

Okay, give it a few seconds. It takes a while for folks to come in. They are on their way in now. Hi, everyone. Thank you for joining us. We are so excited that you're here. We're going to wait a couple seconds to give everyone a chance to come in. We have about 200 people registered for our webinar today. And we are super excited that you are here with us. So we should start shortly. And our esteemed panel is anxious to get started. So it's all good. We are filling up. It takes Zoom a few minutes to get everybody started. So as soon as we see our waiting room, we will start and everyone will come in. Okay, we still have people coming into the webinar, so give us a few minutes, a couple more seconds, and we will get started. Again, um, thank you for joining us today. We are totally excited to have you here. We have a little bit, um, right at 200 people registering— registered for the event. And we're super psyched to have you here.

Wish I could serve refreshments, you know, I'm a foodie. I wish I could be serving some pastry.

I came with my Starbucks cup.

I know, I mean, you know, there's nothing like a webinar with refreshments.

With the Starbucks cup all ready to go, think of it that you all are all at the Starbucks Starbucks, and we are all in one big community. And Max and I have passed out Starbucks to everyone, and we are, um, I'm setting the tone, guys. I'm setting the tone for the webinar. Okay, so let me, let me get us started. Okay, so— okay, so thank you for joining us today for Drug Testing, Physicals, DLT Compliance During COVID-19. This is our webinar series that Physicians Health Center and I have partnered to do for the workers' comp and HR community, really to give you all a venue to talk about The impact of COVID-19 on your workplace. So today, um, we are joined also by OM Management, which is a drug testing program management, the Arma Physicians Health Center, and WorkCompSeminars.com, which is my company. We are in the process of putting a lot of these courses online, so WorkCompSeminars will be up starting May 1st, so we're pretty excited about doing that. After 21 years, we are still going. So I want to do some housekeeping. Our speakers, I'm going to introduce everyone that's on our panel today. We have a chat box that is in all of your desktops. If you have a question, please put it into the chat box. A lot of you, when you registered, you gave us questions that you wanted answered. We have your questions. Pretty excited to answer them for you. We've put together a set of questions that were the most common ones that we wanted to answer, but I really want to make this interactive, so please go ahead and put your information in. You'll also receive a link to the webinar replay. Um, we are streaming live to YouTube, and I will send everyone a link to the YouTube webinar replay. By the end of this, um, webinar, we will also send out a survey We're asking everyone, if you have programs that you want us to bring forward, please respond and include that in your survey so that we can go ahead and improve some of the course offerings that we're doing. Again, these webinars are free and we're doing this as a service both to the HR, the safety, and the workers' comp community, and we appreciate absolutely that you guys have joined us. For those of you who have no idea who I am, which is, you know, I'm sure a lot of you, um, my name is Margaret Spence and I'm the president and CEO of C. Douglas and Associates. We run a couple different, um, business brands: Work Comp Seminars, Douglas Claims and Risk Consultants. I've been in the workers' comp space for 36 years. Um, it's, it's, you know, quite hilarious to say that, uh, 36 years. But nonetheless, Max Topper and Physician Center and I have been doing these programs for a little over 10 years. We were looking back and realizing that we've been doing this for 10 years. So I've written a couple of books in workers' comp, a few around women in leadership. Also, Dr. Susan Nelson is joining us, and Dr. Nelson is the medical director for Physicians Health Center. She's been an AHCMED physician for about 15 years. She has experience in FAA medical review officer, drug drug testing, return to work, workplace compliance. We're going to talk to her at length about physicals and how they impact the COVID-19 and where we go from here. And Max Topper actually has some really great information that she's going to share with the group around COVID-19 testing that Physicians Health Center is going to start doing. Patrick Armstrong is also on the call on our webinar today. Patrick is Patrick is the Vice President of OM Management. He oversees the drug management program. And I think, Patrick, you and I have known each other like maybe 20 years now or so, maybe a little bit less than that. But Patrick is the VP of OM Management and managing the full drug program process for both FAA, DOT, and regular employers who are doing drug testing. And Patrick is a world of information about compliance and so on. And so he and I are going to have a great conversation around this. And then finally on our call today is Joanna Panfield. I'm going to really screw up your name, Joanna, and I'm sorry. Panfield. Joanna is a Client Service Manager for OM Management. She is also an expert around employee drug testing and the drug testing process. So that is our group. And then Max Topper, who is also on our line— wonderful Max— Max is the VP of clinic management, clinic marketing for Physicians Health Center. She's the executive VP. Max and I have been friends for a number of years as well, probably close to 20. And she is also the co-chair of the Workers' Comp Institute Return to Work section. And Max Rosarroyo and I put on a program at the Workers' Comp Institute for return to work and return to work implementation. So that is our complete panel. We're here today to dispel any myths about drug testing. We're talking about the intersection between getting people to work, employee physicals, DOT requirements, COVID-19, and how that all triangulates from a workers' comp and HR perspective. So before we start, I want to tell you about a couple webinars we have coming up. We have on May 5th the OSHA Compliance During COVID-19: A Legal Update. Ed Fuchs will be on that webinar. He is a partner with Fisher Phillips. He also used to be the Secretary of Labor and Occupational Safety during the Bush administration. He served at OSHA for about 4 years. We're going to have that. You will get an email about that program. We also have a Multistate Workers' Comp Defense and Plaintiff Roundtable that we're doing on May 7th at 2 o'clock. We have 5 esteemed attorneys that's —gonna cover California, Massachusetts, Indiana, Kansas, Missouri, and Florida, and how COVID-19 is impacting both from a defense and plaintiff standpoint. We want you to hear about the plaintiff standpoint because COVID-19 is going to be the Pandora's box of litigation. And then the next one we have coming up is Advocacy and Empathy: An Integration of Leave, Disability, and Return to Work Policy. That is on May 12th, and we're doing that with Alicia Thompson. She was the Senior Accommodation and Disability Consultant for Amazon and former Director of Workers' Comp for Macy's. So we are done with all of our intro and our prelims. Thank you very much again for joining us. I'm going to unshare our screen— my screen— and I am going to now start talking to Dr. Nelson. So, Dr. Nelson. Hello. Hi, how are you?

I'm great, how are you?

How is everybody? Okay, fantastic, fantastic. So tell us everything that you think we need to know about doing physicals during COVID-19 because the number one question that people keep asking is, can I do COVID-19 testing as a part of the physical, new employee physical?

Okay, nothing as far as physical exams. Um, I'm assuming you're talking about pre-employment physicals. Uh, nothing, yeah, nothing has changed. And for an example, from the, from the FAA, we received an email from them like, people don't want to come in. We were talking the other day about the, the telehealth, the telemedicine. Obviously, physical exams cannot be done that way. And for pilots or for DOT truck drivers or for pre-employment physicals, they physically have to come into the office and they physically have to, have to come in to be seen. Vital signs need to be done. Urine testing has to be done. They have to— we, we have to, we have to see them to make sure that they are physically able to perform whatever, whatever the job is. So COVID-19 hasn't affected it that way except for, of course, with the personal protective equipment, with masks and gloves and the hand washing and the sanitizer, all of that, the social distancing as much as you can for a physical exam, but nothing with that, nothing has, has changed. The physical exams need to be performed. I'm sure you'll talk about the drug testing separately, but drug testing has to be done. There's no, uh, virtual or, or telehealth drug testing. I mean, that, that need— that needs to be, that needs to be performed.

Okay, so if one of the concerns that an employer has is I have a brand new employee, um, we're not familiar with them, we're bringing this brand new person into our work environment, we have no idea if this person is COVID positive, COVID exposed, COVID radiating virus, we have no idea what's going on with this person. What, what reassurance do you want to give to employers? Well, there are certain—

because there's no, obviously there's no way of knowing unless, unless testing is done, unless they were tested. But during a routine physical exam, it's not only a physical exam, but it's also history. We take the vital signs, we'll take the temperature, we'll listen to their lungs, ask what symptoms. Obviously, we'll see if they are, if they are sick, and we make, and we make that determination whether they are cleared physically. If they're cleared to be able to to be able to work, just as we would do before. We would take their blood pressure. If their blood pressure was too high, no, you're not, you're not cleared to work. Your sugar is too— you're diabetic, your sugar is too high, is uncontrolled, then you wouldn't be cleared. That would just be another— just something else that would be, that would be added.

Added to the mix. So what happens, what happens if the person had already tested positive for COVID-19. So they have tested positive in the past. I want them to come back to work. They've had a negative test. But now, as the employer, I want to send them in for a physical. What's your opinion on that?

OK, that's— yeah, that's perfectly fine. That's something new, our new normal of new things that are coming up. And new things are coming up every day. But if they did have a positive test, And they've— and we've, and we've had cases like that. And then they do have the 2 negative tests, which they need to do, and they bring it, they bring it in. Or we've also been doing them telehealth as well if they, if they didn't want to come in. But they bring in the 2 negative tests and we, we can go ahead and clear them, do it as a, as a fitness for duty, which, which we have done. We've done it for that. We've also done them for, uh, employees who, um, They've— they had— they coughed at work and then everyone, oh my goodness, oh my goodness. And then they'll send— we'll have them sent in for fitness for duty and we'll do that. So that's— yeah, that's no problem at all.

Right. So what, um, what's the panic? Because it seems to me that a lot of employers are getting ready to panic as we open up and we start going back to our new normal. And they go back to this new normal place, I think everybody's going to be hypersensitive about the employee's temperature, the employee's demeanor, the employee's look and feel, the employee's everything. Okay, so what, what makes you pause and say, as a physician, If I were the employer, this would be the guidelines I would set forward for a person in my workplace. So if, if, if, um, if we all open up tomorrow morning and everybody shows up at work, what should cause concern to employers as it relates to COVID-19 and workers' comp?

Okay, well, the first thing obviously, uh, would be the temperature and before everything started shutting down, when gyms and that were still open, walk into the gym, they would take your temperature. So that could be something that could be implemented and could use— we had, I think we were talking about the forehead thermometers, and, and that doesn't involve any, any, you know, contact at all, to see if they have any, any fever. And it's, it's, it's tough, because these are, these are judgment calls. And that's something that we've been having. The employers aren't 100% sure, so that's when they will send their employees in for the fitness for duty. But just as a general rule, that's going to be tough. I mean, how you can tell by looking at someone, oh, they've been exposed, they have they've had— they have the COVID-19, but they still, as more things start opening, whenever that's going to be, still need to have the personal protective equipment, especially the mask, practice social distancing as much as you can. All these things are, are probably going to be the new normal because you, you don't know And there's no way of knowing, and you can't test everybody, and you can't send everybody in for fitness for duty, but you have to do your due diligence and have hand sanitizer, have water available to wash your hands. These are things that are going to have to be done from now on, from going forward.

Um, what happens if an employee tests positive at a location and you have a positive person there and you are not sure what to do. What's the, what's the thing that the employer should do if they have a positive person on site and they know for sure that the person tested positive as it relates to the other employees that are still working for the company.

Okay, anyone who has, at least in that 14-day period, anyone who has come within the 6-foot distance of that, of that employee needs to, needs to be tested. If they find it, obviously I'm assuming you're saying if we find out after, because if they're positive, yes, we find out after.

Yeah, like an employee calls in and says I just tested positive for COVID-19, but hey, I just finished a shift yesterday or 2 days ago or 3 days ago, especially in healthcare, which we have a lot of healthcare companies here in Florida and all over the country. We've got pretty broad swath of people who are participating today. So if I am, if an employee is tested positive in my workforce, What is the best practice that the employer should follow from a medical standpoint is my question, really.

Obviously, they need to let the other employees know. Not the greatest thing to do, but they need to let them know. I mean, not the easiest thing to do. They have to let them know. And anyone, like I said, anyone who has contact with that employee in the 14 days prior needs to be tested and needs to be quarantined until they get that negative test.

Okay, so Ileana asked the question, do we need to record the temperature and track it, or can we just take the temperature? Now I want to ask Ileana if she could put her answer back into the chat. Are you in healthcare or non-healthcare? Because I think the answer will be specific. So if you're recording temperatures, what should you do with it?

I think when the, when the patient went, or when the employee— I'm sorry, when the employee comes in, you, you take that, you take their temperature and, and, you know, have them, have them come in. I don't know if it necessarily has to be recorded. I mean, that's, that's something that I can't specifically answer, but I think, uh, if they come in, you take their temperature, it's okay, and Can I interrupt, Margaret?

Yes, you can. Because we are going to various companies and construction sites, and we are taking temperatures, and we are reporting them. If it is a positive temperature, then, you know, we have that documented, and the person has to go home.

Right. So I'm gonna give the answer general. I'll answer it not from a medical standpoint, standpoint. So let me give you an example of what I was dealing with all of last week. I had a nursing home that, that had a positive employee and positive patients, and they also got an OSHA complaint, which is why I did— I'm doing this OSHA program next week. What has saved this nursing home is that they did start doing testing of people, and they did keep a log. They kept a log of everyone that, um, that tested positive and they put the log together. And when they had the OSHA complaint, they were able to produce the log showing that they had tested every single employee that came in the door and that they had actually tested those people 2 to 3 times during their shift, during their time at work. And they were able to produce that log. So my best practice, and the question— someone else asked the question, is that for all industries? So I would say yes, you should log the temperature. I think yes, you should log, and everyone should be doing PPE training. And everyone should be doing training around the expectation of being positive with COVID-19 in your workplace, and you should be logging that training because those are the things that OSHA ended up coming forward with during this issue. Now, I understand that's healthcare, but that doesn't mean that it cannot hap— happen in hotel and hospitality, in a restaurant. As we reopen and as we bring, bring folks back to work. I think this is an issue that we're going to have to really, um, and maybe I will do a, a webinar with an employment attorney. Yes, get an employment attorney, um, as well from a medical standpoint. Now, Dr. Nelson, there's a question: what is an abnormal temperature? So can you answer that question?

Yeah, for the CDC and And for COVID-related, 100.4 would be considered a fever.

Okay. So the other question that was asked is what happens if the employee has a note from a doctor that says their temperature is going to be high for a non-COVID reason? So let's say, for example, an employee has— is going through cancer treatment, which a lot of employees are. Or they have some other condition, maybe basal temperature, maybe they have thyroid issues that causes their temperatures to run high. What do you say as the employer? What's the pushback? Or it's similar to the cough, I think.

Right. Well, fever, cough is a little bit more subjective, but if they have a fever, a fever is a sign of some type of infection. In most cases. If you say they're going through treatment, if there's some other reason for them to have fever, they need documentation of that. Because if they have a fever, there has to be a reason. And if they have some type of infection, they shouldn't be at work either, whether it's COVID-related or if it's related to something else. Or if they bring some kind of documentation from their doctor, okay, this patient is going to have a temperature of 100.4, 100.5 because of this, and they're cleared to work.

Right, right. So again, it's going to be a process of is the employee cleared to work from their personal doctor? Yes. Okay.

In those cases— Go ahead. Go on, I'm sorry.

No, I wanted to say that while we have Dr. Nelson, I also want to address the fact that we're doing the antibody testing because you're talking about return to work and that's Before we get into drug testing, that's very relevant to that topic.

Yeah, definitely. And so, so Dr. Nelson, you were saying that the, the fact that they have a note to return, you know, the fact that they're running a temperature and they have a doctor's note, the key part of what you said I think is they have to be cleared to work. Is that what I'm hearing?

Yeah, they have to have something from their doctor that they're cleared to work, not just coming with a fever, look, I'm— but I'm COVID negative. No, why do you, why do you have a fever? You need something from your doctor clearing you. And of course, make a copy and keep that just like you were saying about logging, like logging the temperatures. As far as the antibody testing, that's just like with everything with COVID That's something that's new. Is it 100%? No. But it does give some type of indication that patient did have it, were exposed, they have the antibody against it. Although, again, it's not 100%, and nobody knows for sure yet that if you have the antibodies that you cannot get it again. So all this is relatively new, but it is something, and it is something that we are offering the antibody testing, at least to give some type of idea, some type of clue if they, you know, if they were exposed and they do have the antibodies against it. It is It is something in the early stages, but it is something.

Okay, so I have a question here from Crystal, and this is pretty important, and I think part of it I'll answer, part of it I'll ask Dr. Nelson to answer. The question evolves around HIPAA. Okay, so let's talk about HIPAA because this is a Pandora's box. HIPAA still applies to a person's COVID-19 status. It's no different to HIV. It's no different to anything else. This is medical information. It's no different to your workers' comp file shouldn't be in your HR file because the workers' comp information is subject to subpoena. Your employment information is subject to subpoena, but they should be separate because not everything in every file is open to subpoena. So I think from a HIPAA standpoint, yes, the doctor would tell you what the condition is. That's causing the person to run a temperature, but it's up to you as the HR manager to create a HIPAA file for that information to be put in that is secure so that that person's personal medical information doesn't become the talk of your organization. So we still have to walk a line between a person's right to privacy as it relates to COVID-19, and it— and, and the employers need to know what is going on with you because you are running a temperature. So we still have to use best practices, best HR practices around HIPAA compliance, around being protective of a person's information, and about having the discussion with that person in a private environment that is not subject to everyone else. While we have to tell everybody about a person's COVID status, we don't have to do it in such a way that we discriminate against that person or make them feel ostracized in the workplace. So I can't stress that enough, and I'll probably say it at the very end in case we have this thing come up again, but I think that we have to be conscious of that. And wouldn't you agree with that, Dr.

Nelson? Oh yes, and I don't— and there's no reason to say, okay, uh, whatever the name was, uh, Bob Smith was, was tested, you know, positive for, for COVID. No, somebody in the workplace was tested, uh, was tested positive.

You need to, you need to be tested.

That's, that's, that's all, all that needs to be done. Um, just like you're saying, just like any, anything else, just like anything else. This one was tested for tuberculous because that happens in hospitals too. Test positive for tuberculosis, you're not going to say, oh, Patrick Armstrong— sorry, Patrick— positive for tuberculosis. There's no reason to say that. It's illegal anyway, but there's no reason to say that. So that would just be anyone else. Everyone has to have PPDs done. Everyone has to be tested for COVID-19 because we had an incident of it. That's all.

Right. Yeah. So it's still a part of the process. So one of the things that I want everybody to understand on our call and just really to reassure you and really just put an arm around you, we're going to get this right. Okay. We're going to make mistakes. I get it. We're going to have times when we don't get this right, but for the most part, um, we are going to, um, get this right. Wouldn't you agree, Dr. Nelson?

Of course. Of course, everything— I mean, we're all on a learning curve. No one is an expert in it, even though I think we probably are already. But every day, there's something new. The antibody testing, they just came out with— these are the new symptoms, not just the cough, fever, shortness of breath. They had added symptoms. So every day, there's something new. Every day, we're just— from one day to the next, we're doing telehealth. From one day to the next, we found out about the antibodies. So each day is something new. But yeah, we're getting it. I mean, there's no question about that.

Right. So someone asked the documentation as it relates to non-COVID-related issues. So if the person comes in with personal information, that's still to be documented separately. And it's to be treated separately from the COVID-related issues. Can you tell me for a second, Dr. Nelson, describe for me what the antibody test that Physicians Health Center is going to be starting to do. What is that testing for, and how should employers use that testing?

Okay, the antibody testing is a test against the SARS. If you had the antibody for that performed by— well, we're testing by Quest Lab. It's, it's done by, by a simple blood test. I know other places are— I think they have a needle stick— a needle stick— finger stick test for that, but we have the serum test for that, and it shows the antibodies that they are concerned if somebody has COVID or if they were exposed, or if they have the possibility that they were exposed, say, look, I have the test here that I have the antibodies. But that's something also, like I said, that's something that has to be taken, you know, with a grain of salt. They could— it doesn't mean that they will never get it, that they won't get it again. So that's one of those newer things that we're, you know, testing the waters on right now.

Okay, great. Um, anything else before I let you go, Dr. Nelson, because I know you're seeing patients?

Um, basically, because we're talking about, uh, which will go into more with the drug testing and, and the physical exams, and saying nothing, nothing that has, has changed. Um, these, uh, pre-employments and, or FAs and DOT physicals are done for a reason, and patient needs to come in. Um, like I said, with the FAA, the pilots were having their concerns about coming in. Well, if you're going to fly a plane, we need to make sure that you're okay. You need to come in. We need to make sure you're not diabetic. We need to make sure you're able to see. Same thing with the DOT physicals. There's no way we can do a visual exam via telehealth. Uh, and the same thing you're going to be talking about that the drug tests All these things need to be done and the precautions need to be taken, which, you know, which were taken before with drug testing. Whosever, uh, whoever the collectors are going to be using gloves, we're going to add the added, uh, mask to be used. But, you know, those little things have changed, but some things have changed, but basically it's, it's, you know, it's, it's the same, just the same, and add a little just a, you know, just a little change to it.

Okay.

All right. So if, um, what, what I will put out to everyone on the call today, if you have some questions that you— that come up afterwards, um, and you want to put them into the chat for Dr. Nelson, we'll double back to her, get the answers, and we'll send it out in our follow-up email to everyone. But Dr. Nelson, we appreciate everything you're doing, and thank you so much for joining us on the webinar. Thank you. All right, Carmen, I want to acknowledge your question on random testing, and Patrick is going to cover that. And I also want to acknowledge Nancy Durham. Nancy, you raised your hand. If you have questions, please put it in either into the Q&A or the chat, and we'll be glad to answer that for you. So I do want to acknowledge you, and also to acknowledge the question that we had on random testing. We're going to come back to that. If anybody else has questions for Dr.— okay, it's— the question was, is it not illegal to ask an employee to test as long as it's not a discriminatory way? So is it illegal to ask them to test for the COVID-19? Is that what you're asking, Nancy? Or to do the antibodies test? Yes, it's not discriminatory for you to ask a person to test. There isn't, there hasn't been a mandate that says it's discriminatory and you can't test or you can't ask someone to go through the antibody test. What you cannot do is force someone to take a COVID-19 test because number one, there aren't enough tests test. Number 2, unless they have symptoms, you're not going to get a test, which is why we're trying to get these swab tests and other things done. And there really hasn't been a mandate given either by the CDC or OSHA or anyone else that says every employer is able to ask an employee to be tested. The only way right now that I've seen— I have a few clients that are meat processors and they've had some exposures and they've gone in and asked for testing. So that's sort of where we are. That's sort of the process. Yeah. So I hope that answers your question. If not, please, you know, please keep posting it in. And if I don't have the answer, I will, I will try to do. So what do I do? Take temperatures every day? Yes, Nancy. In most industries, they're taking temperatures every day. They're taking temperatures a couple times per shift. I'm not sure what industry you're in, but if you want to pop that into the chat, yes, they are taking them. They are documenting that they have tested, that they have taken temperatures, because that is the only way. Yes, retail, absolutely. You do need to take temperatures. You do need to document that temperatures are being taken. Yeah. Okay, so Patrick, you're up next.

Oh, okay. So I'll share the screen?

Yes, so, um, Joanna is going to share the screen, um, and we're going to start talking about drug testing. All right. Okay. All right, great. So the question, Patrick, is what I want to do before we go into the presentation is really ask you to explain the tenets of a drug testing program so that we have that on the record. What are the tenets of a drug testing program? Program that exists today, not COVID-19, just a regular tenant? What does an employer have to do to have a drug-free workplace?

Okay, well, there's, there's actually two types of drug-free workplaces. One is mandated by the federal government, which is the DOT program. And then the other one is the drug-free workplace. Many states, I think about 26 states have their own, you know, internal regulations. And then the other The other states really just kind of follow the non-DOT federal guidelines. And so with here in Florida, and I could talk about that the most because we're here in Florida, I know the regulation's pretty good. But yet for Florida, the minimum— and also the federal non-DOT— the minimum is you have to have a drug plan. It has to outline what the lab is going to do, what the collection site's going to do, what the doctor or the MRO is going to do. Then you have to do pre-employment, you have to do reasonable suspicion, and then you have to do follow-up or return-to-duty and follow-up, you know, if someone tests positive and they come and you want them to come back to work. Now, on the DOT side, it's a little bit more stringent. It also gets audited, and then there's an array of entities. You have trucking, transit, aviation, railroad, Pipeline and Maritime, and each one is very similar to each other except the differences are covered positions, what an accident is. So there are, there are differences, uh, on the— but on the DOT side, they call for pre-employment random testing, uh, post-accident, uh, reasonable suspicion, return to duty, and then follow-up. So they have a little bit more. But the basic program for the DOT also is you have to have a drug plan. It has to outline what the laboratory is going to do, what their— what the collection site— how the collection site is done, how the MRO is going to operate, and there's special regulations on how they deal with a positive or a diluted sample. So you got all kinds of stuff in there. The collectors have to collect it a certain way. If the person's positive and he needs rehabilitation, then there's guidelines for the substance abuse professional and what he's supposed to do. So there is— that's pretty much it in a nutshell.

So one of the big questions, and I know it's a pressing question for everybody on this call, and I know that we have our canned questions, but I have one that's already been put in by Carmen, and I want to answer that because she put that in for a little bit now. The question that Carmen has is, what if I have a random test from a random list of multiple drivers and they're not working due to COVID-19? What if the quarter is running out and the driver is not back, and many don't want to put their health at risk to go out to work, so So they are not working. So we're gonna, you can either answer that now or we can segue into that question, but I want you to know that that question has been posed in our chat. It's one of the big questions that we had from our pre-registration questions. So it's one that I think we want to answer. So go ahead, Patrick, talk about COVID-19 drug testing, is there such a thing?

Well, uh, COVID-19 drug testing, no. A drug test is still a separate item. Uh, now, if as part of a physical exam, if you wanted to add COVID-19 test, if the collection site has the ability— so the only way to know is really to call them and see if, you know, if they've been able to come online with that test or not. But when it comes down to the drug test, one has nothing to do with the other. The drug test is still going to be on the DOT side a 5-panel, period. And then on the non-DOT side and also the Florida Drug-Free Workplace, you can either opt to have a 5, 8, or a 10-panel as part of the drug test. But there's nothing added to that. But with regards to the COVID-19 testing.

So if I'm a federal employer or if I am a federal contractor, what is my requirement under the drug testing process for federal employers? Well, is that on a pre-employment?

Yeah, on the pre-employment, it's mandatory. On the federal side, and again, as Dr. Nelson mentioned earlier, The DOT has put out guidance, and pretty much the guidance is all federal regulations have to be complied with for safety reasons. And so if you have an employee that, you know, that's leery about going in for— well, I'm not going to say employee. If you have a candidate that's leery about going into a drug testing facility or a medical center for his pre-employment drug test, that's going to be a big problem. He needs to be tested. Or actually, the company needs a negative result, and the only way to facilitate that is to get a drug test. So he has to go. On the random side, you've got the whole quarter to do the randoms. The regulations don't— when someone's selected for a random, the regulations don't say that you have to send them in immediately as soon as you get the list. The employers have 3 months or so to get these tests done. So currently, you know, COVID-19 is on the downside as a strategy now. It's on the downside. So maybe right now you don't want to send your people in. So you wait towards the end of the quarter, which is going to be the, you know, towards the end of June. But employers that have 20 or 30 or 40 drug tests, you know, pending, random pending, that might be a bit of a crunch. So what you could do is you call in for an onsite. So, you know, we also have that capability, but many other companies in cities, you know, have— there are on-site companies that will come out and do the drug testing, you know, right at your location if you don't want your employees to leave. So, yeah.

So Robert, Robert posted the question about the government employer. Robert, did we answer your question? If we didn't, you can post a rebuttal into the chat. Liz has posted a question and she says, I'm in the in the aviation industry, what happens if we have mechanics, safety, sensitive safety positions on furlough? How would we do our testing?

They're on furlough. Very good question. Now, the different entities, and I mentioned them earlier, you got aviation, trucking, transit, maritime, railroad, they all have their own special pre-employment guidelines. With aviation, though, it's— they've made it fairly easy because furlough is very common in the aviation industry. For heavy maintenance facilities, they may have, you know, 10 aircraft that are being fixed and you might need 600 employees, and then after 2 or 3 weeks, or a C-check is 6 weeks, then all of a sudden you don't need, you know, 700, 800, 900 employees. Employees, now you only need 400. So a lot of those employees are contracted and they're contracted for 6 weeks and then they furlough those guys and then they wait for another job, whether it shows up in Lake City or it could show up in Alabama somewhere or Jacksonville, depending on, you know, who's hiring, you know, doing mass hiring for that. So you can bring those— so you can furlough these employees or lay them off and then you can bring them back when You know, when, you know, work— and in this case, the COVID-19, a lot of the companies have laid off, but the layoff is only for like, say, for a month or maybe 3 weeks or something. You can bring them right back on and then just make sure you put them on the random list and then you're good to go. Some of these aviation, like carriers, Part 121s, some of these pilots will be furloughed for 3 or 4 or 5 months, but they can bring them right back and put them right directly back into of the program, no pre-employment. Now for aviation and also, well, actually all the DOT entities, uh, what you do, if you have furloughed them for a period of time, you still have to do the previous employer check again. Now that's something that companies do have to remember, aviation companies, especially you have to do the previous employer check, but trucking companies too. If they've been gone for, you know, only, you know, a month, uh, if you've taken them off the random list, You have to do your previous employer check just to make sure that he wasn't working at another company for a couple of weeks, pulling a couple of loads. If aviation, the same way, if you've laid him off and he does, you know, part-time or moonlighting, uh, he may have moonlighted at another, uh, another employer somewhere. So you have to do that previous employer check to see if he possibly tests positive.

If not, so, so if let's say I'm, I'm just a, a local ABC I've got, you know, mechanics. They're mine. They're not necessarily working for anybody else. I furloughed them. So what you're saying, if I understand you right, is if, let's say, June 1st, we start back operation and I need those people back, if they're regular employees, I don't have to test them again before I bring them back. You just add them to the random list.— is that what you're saying?

That is correct. As long as you had a DOT pre-employment test on that individual, you— and for aviation now, we're only talking about aviation— bring that person back without doing another pre-employment drug test on him. Now, if the employment with that employee has been severed, like you're fired, or, you know, he's handed you a letter of resignation, Now that's different. That's a severed employment. A severed employment, to bring that person back, now you do need another or a new pre-employment drug test and a pre-employment check.

I have a quick question, Patrick. So since we— nobody really knows the time frame of the COVID-19 furloughs, do you have a reasonable time frame where, you know, that pre-employment for FAA would expire, or maybe it doesn't expire?

No, it does not expire at this time. Employers always should check to make sure, but up to this time, and I haven't heard any, any, anything that's changing from the, you know, from the FAA between website, their, their Q&As, or, you know, any, any advertisements. But at this point, if the person's gone furloughed for 2 years, you can bring them back. Okay, so Mike, so the questions, you know, they want more details, if they really want to have a conversation, you can always always call OM Management and we can have a personal conversation with regard to this. Because I know that some of this stuff gets really complicated and people are, you know, afraid. They don't want to make any violations because some of these violations are not small. They're $25,000, $30,000, $50,000.

Right, right. I understand. And again, I'll issue a disclaimer. We're answering a lot of this in generalities without real specifics and just in general. Liz, I hope that answers your question. It sounds like the question you're answering is that the employee, um, so, so she's clarified it a little bit. What if the employee is laid off for a whole quarter? Um, how do you go about doing a random to comply with the FAA if they're gone for the whole quarter? Do you then go ahead and, um, and do their, do their random even though they're off work?

Yeah, there's two ways of doing that. There's, uh, uh, and, and again, I got this, this guidance because I always have to get guidance because if you don't, you can always misinterpret what the regulations are saying because they're not exactly clear. But, uh, and it has to be written— it should be written into your company policy. But you can perform a random per quarter, and whoever you didn't get in that quarter for— now the reason has to be because they were unavailable. It can't be because you forgot. Or they, you know, they were working, you know, the third shift and you couldn't catch them. Those are all— that's bad excuse, very bad excuses, because you'll get a violation for that. But if there's a legitimate reason why you couldn't, you know, capture that person in that quarter because he was either furloughed or he was on sick leave, maternity leave, or some legitimate reason, then you can dismiss that for that quarter, okay? And you can work it that way without transferring to the next quarter, but it has to be written into your policy. The second way is if you do a random selection in the first quarter and then for some reason you couldn't get them tested, legitimate reason, you would move him to the next quarter. So you'd get your second random list the second quarter, and then you'd move that name and just put it at the bottom and then test them then. For instance, he didn't come back that quarter either, then you do the same thing. You'd move him to the third quarter and then test him. By that time, there's a good possibility that you might— he might be selected twice. You have to test him twice. He has to go twice because you still have to satisfy— whoever gets selected must go, unless it's written into your policy that you're going to close the quarter out each time. Uh, and just a little side note, uh, December 31st is the end of the year And so the FAA doesn't recognize any testing after December 31st. So if you miss— so first, if you went through first quarter, second, third, and fourth quarter and you still didn't capture him, now he goes back into the list automatically. But if there was a reason somewhere throughout there that you were able to test and you didn't test, that's going to be a violation. And if you show a pattern where you've missed a couple of these guys like this, they could fine you for it. —where it's like around $15,000. Right.

So basically what you're saying is a lot of this applies to what is your current written policy around your drug testing for aviation, and what is also your written policy around people who miss or is out on furlough. But this is a big question, and I think it actually came to me while we're doing this. Couldn't I still say to Johnny or Jane sitting at home, your name has come up on random, you're on furlough, but to keep— to continue working, we're gonna come— you need to either go in and do your sample or you need to go to a collection site to do your sample. Couldn't I just say as the employer, I still want to keep my randoms going during the time that you're furloughed? Couldn't I do that, or I can't do that?

Um, you can do that up to a point. Uh, what's the difficult one? Well, there's two, two, two dangers there. Uh, first of all, the alcohol test. If he's been selected for an alcohol test and he's on furlough, that means he's not working in a covered position, so you can't send him in for the alcohol test. So you're still going to be short. Ah, okay, got it. Because you have to— alcohol testing is, is, uh, the way it's phrased It's just prior to, during, or just after performing your safety-sensitive job, work. Okay, gotcha. If you're at home, you can't do it. Now, on the drug test side, yes, you could send him. The risk is, what if he doesn't want to go? He could say, "Well, I was about ready to take my kid to the park. I'm going to a birthday party. I've been drinking." I, you know, there's a whole bunch of reasons because he's on his own time. Now there's a difference between furlough and then you have per diem employees that are paying a stipend to stay home waiting for, like, flight attendants. Uh, you know, we have several companies that have flight attendants, and sometimes these flight attendants, they're, they're on paid, uh, what's the better— I can't remember the word they use, uh, but they're paid but to stay at home, ready to go, you know, drive into work within an hour to catch a flight.

Right, right. They're on call, more or less, for a flight, right? For a flight.

Yeah, they're being paid. So you can technically send that person in for an alcohol test because he should— he or she should not be drinking.

And right, okay. So, so two things.

Yeah, it's just— it makes it difficult.

Okay, so let's separate two things because we have a question from Christie. Christie says, couldn't I just remove the furloughed employee from the random pool until they return?

Absolutely. That's what I would recommend.

That's aviation, or is that regular DOT or regular—

Across the whole DOT spectrum, all 6 entities, I would recommend if the employee is furloughed to remove them from the random list. Okay. Got it. And also, that's true and maybe not true. Because if you think you're going to bring that employee back within a couple of weeks, I would leave him on. And if he gets selected while he's on furlough, you just send him in for testing once, you know, when he, when he gets back. But if you know that it could be a whole quarter, and it's guesswork on some of this stuff, uh, if it's gonna be a whole quarter, then I would remove him.

Okay, so let's say I'm a trucking company, okay? I'm a trucking company. I have drivers out there driving. I have 50 drivers still on the road. I have 50 who I furloughed and they're at home. The 50 that I furloughed, 10 of them have come up on for random, okay? And they're going to be random, let's say May, June, July, or we're in the second quarter now. So Jennifer, by March, April— well, no, Jennifer, by March, April, so we're ending first quarter. So let's say they come up on my May list, I could decide, to move those people to August, or I could decide to move them to July if that's when they're coming back to work, or I could remove them if they're DOT. Can I remove them from the list for this quarter and add them to the quarter starting in September? Is that what you're saying?

Not for— not for trucking. Trucking is a different entity. And so now you really need to know regulations that govern your particular entity. Now, trucking says, uh, FMCSA says if you remove the employee, uh, from the random list 30 days, then you have to do another pre-employment drug test on him. Ah, okay. As a strategy, an employer really has to look at his employees that he's going to furlough. Now, if you furlough them, that's fine. Uh, uh, After 30 days, you got to do a pre-employment drug test.

So, okay, got it.

To leave them on the random list, because it says if you leave them on the random list even though they're furloughed, then you don't have to do another pre-employment. So he— so say for instance some of them get selected, uh, then you test them when they get back or come back off a furlough. That would be my strategy for that.

And what if you can't get them tested while they're on furlough?

Do you just like write a, a, I guess, a disclosure? Yeah, back—

well, on furlough, again, you can't do the alcohol test, so you can just eliminate that. And then back to the same thing, if he's on furlough— so in other words, he's on his own time at that point— if he gets— if he gets selected, if you— as a strategy, if you're at the end of the year, it's December 31st, and you're still short 3 random drug tests, then I would call these guys up and say, you need to come in and do a random You know, a random drug test, please. You know, whatever. But if you're in the middle of the year, it's just, it's not a good strategy because they could be busy. They could be on their way to, you know, some personal thing and they're going to tell you no. And guess what? It's not a refusal. So you, right, right, that they got selected. Now you've created a violation because you've exposed it. Because as soon as you tell them, they have to go. And if they don't go, then it's a reconsider refusal. So that's while they're working, right?

Right. This only applies when they're working. If they're not working, it doesn't apply. Exactly. So you put yourself in a precarious position. Yeah. Liz, Christy, does that answer your question? I know that you guys had that there. Carmen had a question that says, isn't it true that I can't let people know ahead of time that they're doing a random? That I'm doing a random. I don't think you're telling, you're saying go tell the employee they're on the random. What I think you're saying is move the employee along the list if they're random. Am I correct? He got selected.

He has no, he shouldn't have any idea he got selected. Right, right. He just gets moved to the next quarter unbeknownst to him.

Right, right. So I hope that helps you, Carmen. The question is no, you're not going to tell tell the employee, you're going to know that they got selected and you're going to make the decision as the HR safety person to move the person to the next order. So it's not a matter of, oh, I'm going to call the employee up and say, oh, you got selected for random. You're going to make a decision, oh, this person that's on the list is on furlough, this person is not on furlough. So Patrick, Did we cover everything as it relates to DOT? I think we did aviation, we did a lot of other stuff, but let's talk about DOT specifically. Is there anything that you want us to know about DOT drug testing now?

Other than the DOT sent out a memo saying that all regulations have to to be followed. The only reason why you would not follow a particular regulation is because you have a reason that you cannot overcome. For instance, you cannot— there is no collection site for a pre-employment drug test or a random test within 50 miles. Now, we've checked, and pretty much there are, even in small towns, there are still drug screen collection sites available. So there would be very difficult not not to be able to find one. So at this point, you know, all pre-employment regs have to be followed. All random regs have to be followed. All post-accidents have to be followed. Even if you have to call for an onsite from one of these, you know, agencies that, you know, nationwide agencies that, you know, will come onsite and do the post-accident test. They have to be done. And the reason is they're saying is safety is the issue. And that's, uh, that's part of the DOT program. The drug testing part is the safety part of the safety issue.

Okay, so I have a question from Casey. Casey said, if there is an FMCSA DOT driver with a medical examiner certificate that expires during COVID-19, are they still required to get the physical done, or is there a whole— is there a window of opportunity to come back and get it done?

I don't know Well, then that would fall under— let's go back to drug testing. Pretty much on the drug testing side, there's many, many facilities available to go. And when you start moving into smaller towns, now a physical exam is usually done at a doctor's office. So your DOT physical may or may not be able to find somebody. If you cannot find somebody to get this physical done, then the DOT is saying to document the reason. Has to be true. But in this case, the reason would be no facilities available within 50, 75 miles, you know, of this driver. Uh, but you know, these employers should have like a 2-month window and know when these physicals are starting to become, uh, you know, expired. And they should already have these guys heading for the medical center, you know, long before the day of his, uh, uh, physical exam expiring, because that's a $4,000 fine to the company. And also, I think the employee or the driver gets a fine for that too.

So basically what you're saying is if the person's examiner certificate expires and they can't get in to get their physical done, you should do that, because technically they can't come back to work when you reopen the door because their DOT driver medical exam card is expired. I think that's what I'm hearing from you.

Yes, but you need to document it, document the reason why, and the only reason is no, no physical examination facilities are available anywhere within, you know, X amount of, you know, miles away from the driver.

Right. But, and again, am I correct in saying that the driver cannot come back to start working for the employer with an expired medical examiner certificate?

Well, the way the DOT is wording it, uh, that part of it is a little bit relaxed. If the person cannot get a physical, they can still use it.

They can still use the expired card? Yeah, a period of time, right?

But like I said, that's a real tough one because drivers are driving all over the place. There is medical centers open.

Somewhere, right, for them to do it. Yes.

To jump in on the clearinghouse question that an anonymous attendee posted. Yes. So they said, can you discuss the clearinghouse? Do all employees need to sign up if they get a hit when they run the annual? Do employees need to go into the clearinghouse to give full consent? So, um, that is like a two-part question. Employees must sign up in order for full queries to be run. Full queries happen on two instances. Pre-employment, a full query must be done. And then during an annual, if something does hit on their check, then the employee must do a— provide full consent for the full query. Full consent on both pre-employments and annuals on hits have to be done electronically, meaning that the— all the drivers that you are hiring must already be registered in the clearinghouse and provide consent for the employer to run these queries. And then all existing employees, we recommend that they go ahead and register anyway, because at any given moment, if independently they— whether they go apply to another job or they're running annuals at multiple jobs and there's a hit, they have to go in and provide full consent or the employer cannot fulfill the annual query process.

Yeah, best practice, I would have all my drivers, you know, fill out, sign off on the consent forms and register, you know, in the clearinghouse.

And the clearinghouse is brand new, Margaret. It's something that just started January 6th, um, and every employer is required to fully register, fully connect their DOT portal to their clearinghouse login and portal. And then every driver, uh, they must follow their regulation, what the regulation states, and running limited queries, annual queries, pre-employment queries, Reporting violations. Okay.

So tell me again, because this is the first I'm ever hearing of this. So I'm going to be like everybody else on this call saying, what is a clearinghouse? Why is it, what information is in there and why is this important?

So Joanna, answer that for me. Let's go back to the previous employer check. Now all the trucking and transit and aviation companies are very familiar with the pre— the previous employer check. That is whenever you get a job, in a safety-sensitive position, you have to contact the previous employer to see if they were— that they tested positive at that employer. And it's done through paperwork. Trucking companies have to do 3-year backgrounds or previous employers. Aviation has to do 2 years. And so that's what they— all 6 entities have to do that. Now, on the trucking side, when these guys were testing positive, what they were doing is they were just quitting and they were just going, uh, to another trucking company and then just getting a job. The trucking companies weren't really doing a previous employer check, but also truckers are very transient. So they may work at one place for 6, 3, 6 months and they move on to another place. And so if they tested positive, then what they were doing is they were just omitting that previous employer and then giving the previous to that employer. So the, the, uh, FMCSA said, okay, we got to fix this. So what they did was they started this clearinghouse thing. So they set up a separate program that they've been writing for like 5 years now, and they finally got it to work. And so instead of having— so aviation companies, you're going to be jealous, uh, after 3 years from now, you don't have to do a previous employer check anymore. Uh, not aviation, trucking doesn't have to do previous employer checks anymore like that. What you do is you log on to this computer and then you go in and you type the person's name in, or in this case will be his CDL number, and he'll pop up or not pop up. If he pops up, that means he has a positive. If he doesn't pop up, then there's nothing. And so that's the previous employer check. You can do it at your desk in a matter of a few minutes. But there's interesting more technical things. You got to have sign-offs, and then if the person, uh, If it does have a finding, then it has to send the driver an email. He has to give consent for the full query, which allows the employer to run the full query. So that part's a little more background information. Wow.

Interesting. Wow. So thanks. And we are providing—

I do have like a free one-on-one. I'm giving a lot of one-on-one trainings on how to have employers register, how to have employees register, how to— what are the regulations, how to document and how to input data. So if anybody has any questions, we can email them after and I'd be happy to walk them through the process because every single employer with a— that's under the FMCSA and follows the regulations that they're subject to the DOT testing, they must already be registered. Right.

So Joanna, maybe you and I need to do a webinar together. Yeah, it is complicated. And we'll walk people through like this microscopic thing with Max on On board. Max, we have a question for you, but I'm going to hang on to it till the end. Crystal has a question for the group. What DOT specifications do school bus drivers fall under, and where do they fall in the drug testing random now that school is out?

Well, the school bus drivers, they fall under FMCSA, and the reason is because it's the weight of the vehicle. So there's two things. There's the weight of the vehicle, which is 26,000 gross vehicle weight pounds, which I believe school buses fall into that. The second caveat is 15 or more passengers, including the driver. So they fall under two categories under the FMCSA. And so, yeah, that's— so they're subject to all that. So the background checks, the previous employer checks, the query checks, they all, they all They have to do them too.

Our anonymous attendee that asked about a recording of the webinar, yes, the webinar is being recorded. It's actually live streamed to YouTube, and I will send the link out to everyone so that you can share it. We are really trying to do this to get information out to everyone. Carmen had a question. She said that she had a driver that had a physical expire last month. And he said that he has a 2-month window to get it done and he hasn't gotten it done as of today. So does she keep calling him? What does she do? Is he working or not working, Carmen? I don't know that. I think that's going to be— maybe post that into the Q&A so that we can answer it. Joanna, click to the next question. Okay, um, Elizabeth, um, in the chat, um, wants to know more about the Clearinghouse, Joanna. Um, Elizabeth, I think we have your email address because you registered for the event. So what we'll do, um, we'll search for you on the registration list and I'll ask Joanna to reach out to you. Thank you for posting that into the chat. And I really think that the Clearinghouse, Max, Joanna, Patrick, maybe we'll see our nice shiny faces again and we'll do a webinar on the clearinghouse for everyone because I think it's— yes, I think we need to do that and we'll do maybe a 90-minute point-by-point, Joanna, and just walk people through it and then you'll have it as a recording to give to folks to replay and replay and walk their steps through. I think we could do that if Max is up to it, we could do that. Or you could do it through PHC, but I'd love to do it with you as well. Um, okay, so the question is, if the employees furloughed or laid off, do we have to retest them? I think we answered this question, so you can go on to the next one. Yeah, right. Um, also, okay, so this one we sort of answered. So if the employee is working from home, let's answer this question. So let's say I have a safety sensitive person and I've moved them to a non-safety sensitive program and they are working from home, right, and I, um, they've come up on random, what do I do?

Okay, so that's a good question. So yeah, so like you just said, so they're, they're in a safety sensitive position, they're on your DOT random list, and they, they now they've been moved to off-site to work home and you want to send them in for testing, if they are working and you are paying them, you can call for them to go for a random drug test. But remember what I said earlier, random alcohol testing is off the table because they're not performing a safety-sensitive function unless somehow they are doing that from home, which I can't see how they would be performing a safety-sensitive function, whether in aviation trucking, transit, any of that at home. So, but for the drug test, yes. For the drug test, yes.

Okay. Now, Patrick, so this—

what about, um, companies who have non-DOT random programs?

Well, and that's, that's a good question too. Uh, if you have a non-DOT program and, and say, for instance, you have a Florida drug-free workplace and you have written into your policy that, you know, that you're doing random testing. You can do it two ways. You can wait till the end of the quarter and send them then when everybody's back to work, if they get back to work, or you can amend your company policy. Remember, company policies are your own internal bylaws. So if you want to amend it or temporarily suspend random testing due to the coronavirus and you want to minimize exposure for employees, um, you can do that, but under DOT, you cannot, you cannot. DOT has been very clear. Like I said before, I'll just keep repeating it throughout this. Uh, they say, no, you have to follow all DOT regulations. So if, if you have to meet your 25% or your 50% for trucking, uh, for random testing, then yes, you got to meet it. And, uh, if you start falling short, you're gonna have to start doubling up on testing before the end of the year.

Okay. Um, David said, um, didn't DOT issue a memo stating medical cards expiring after March 13 would remain valid for up to 60 days after the end of the declared disaster. I have not seen that.

It could be true, but I just— I haven't seen that. Okay. I would like a copy of that, though, just so I can internalize it.

Yeah, so David will look that up, and I'll attach that to a follow-up email that we send out to everyone so that if everyone on the call has has the information. David, where did you get that memo? Was it issued directly from DOT, or was it issued within your state? So if you could post that into the chat, that would be really good to know as well, because I think, you know, as things are shifting, we try to answer questions, but boy oh boy, with this COVID-19, everything seems to be shifting as we go through the process. So one of the drug testing, the DOT physicals or physicals, right?

Although we do know a lot about the different, uh, requirements, uh, but I'll never say that I'm an expert on DOT physical exams or, or, or trucking.

You can ask Dr. Nelson. She would probably be the one, but she's with patients.

Yeah. So we'll, we'll ask Dr. Nelson and see if that's something that we've been notified of. But if you have been notified of that as the employer, that's an interesting window. So they're giving a person the ability to have that extension. Now, David, I'm not sure what state you're in, and I don't know if FMCSA DOT, which is our Florida DOT, has issued— right, has issued that same ruling, or if that was the federal DOT that issued it, or did the state of Florida issue their own rule. Yeah, David, so that would be interesting to know. Casey is saying that there was a notice put out by the U.S. Department of Transportation, and there was a notice put out by the U.S. Department of Transportation, so that's great to know. Thank you so much. Yeah, for DOT, yes, for DOT. So We got a notification, at least I got it in my email a couple of days ago. Joanna and I were on the phone when the notification came out. And the notification came out from Quest about what an employee has to have to go into a Quest facility for a drug test or in fact any lab test. So Joanna, do you want to tell us a little bit about that?

Yeah, so we did receive notice from Quest. So just overall, you have to look at what the state is calling when you're in public settings, what the employer might require, and then what each independent collection site might require. That could mean a hospital, that could mean a clinic, a traditional medical center, a Quest patient service center, which is where our clients go and send their employees in for drug testing around the nation. So what Quest requires now is that employees must— are required to wear masks or face covering and also subject to no contact temperature, and anyone who has a temperature above 100.3, they will not be taken in for service. So just to keep in mind that if you are sending your— especially your DOT drivers or covered staff, that they must have a face covering or they won't be allowed into any patient service center. Through Quest. Now, PHC at the moment requiring that, so we're an example of someone who different practice right now than Quest, and many other third parties and collection sites, they might have their own requirements. So just be conscious and aware of where your, your staff is going and what they might need before getting there so that they don't get rejected at the door.

Okay, so I'm adding, um, thank you, um, Denise. Denise, for adding the link to the DOT, the DOT ruling on the medical cards into our Q&A. I've just added it to the chat box so that if anyone wants to go out and grab what that directive was, the waiver directive, Denise was kind enough to drop that into our Q&A. Thank you, Denise. Okay, so next question. Okay, so pre-employment, post-offer testing. Can an employee delay their testing until you're operational? So if you're hiring someone now, what's the process for pre-employment pre-employment testing in each one of the buckets, Patrick or Joanna?

Well, on the DOT side, back to what the memo that was put out by the DOT, they're saying that on the drug testing side that all the drug testing regulations have to be followed. So if it's a post-offer test, the person still has to go in for their pre-employment DOT drug test. If for some reason there's none available anywhere, then you need to document that. But again, it's got to be really checked to make sure there was no place, because now you could be subject to a pre-employment fine, which for aviation, that's a $50,000 fine. I wouldn't risk it, especially here in anything remotely close to larger and medium-sized cities. Uh, there are testing facilities available.

And just to add on to what you're saying, Patrick, um, like under aviation, different than trucking, aviation during an audit will look at the time that you've added them into payroll. So although you might not be operational and you think, um, you're going to add them to payroll and then once you're operational you can get a drug test, that, that's actually— will place you for yourself. So if they're not to be entered into payroll Don't do it. You, you need a negative drug test result under aviation before you can add them into payroll. Now, trucking is a little different. So Patrick, if you go on that one as well.

Oh yeah, trucking is a little different. You, you can actually hire them. You just can't use them in a driving capacity, uh, until you have a negative pre-employment drug test. And again, they will double-check and they'll check your driver logs to see if there was a drug test prior to them driving or if after them driving. So they will audit that.

Max, can you ask Dr. Nelson— I don't know if you can text her or text Zach and ask— yeah, what is, what is the temperature? What is an abnormal temperature? She said earlier 100.4. Okay, so Quest is turning people away at 100.3. I think I I put that into the chat. But Dr. Nelson said 100.4 is where the person is over. So Michelle said— Oh, for testing, they won't admit them to the workplace. Right. And so Michelle is saying that the hours have changed at the testing center, and it's hard to get a hold of people at the testing center. Joanna, what are you hearing about testing centers and the inability for people to get in to do pre-employment or any, any of the testing?

Yes, I have been talking to our Quest account and he basically said you, you have to call each center that is going to send someone in because Quest can't keep up with how many hours changes they're having across the nation. Their website is trying to be the most up-to-date up to date then, he said it's realistic to tell us that it's the most up to date when in reality it could change the very minute we're talking. It is a very hard time for employers, um, especially because the DOT isn't really being lenient at all. And granted, it's for the safety of the public, so it makes— you have to keep trying. It's a little bit more extra work, but just keep calling, keep sure that they're open, that you can send them in right away. Random testing, you can document why you weren't able to do it. Michelle, if you can— if you're having issues with random testing, you can just start documenting exactly what's going on. Spoke to so-and-so on this date at this time, they are not open. Sent out this email, print out every documentation that you can trace how you tried your best is always going to benefit you. Pre-employment, unfortunately, if you don't have that negative test result, not begin working in safety-sensitive positions, and you have to keep trying until you have a way to get those people tested. So try to contact us or your third-party administrator to see someone who can come on site, maybe get a couple of them done out of the way. But it is a difficult time. A lot of businesses, especially, you know, family businesses, a lot of these Quest locations, not enough people working in the area, they've reduced their hours significantly. Yeah, yeah.

And I think one of the things that we're going to have to start doing as a employers is really thinking out of the box. You know, what's the alternate solution that I can find? Does it mean that I get 5 or 6 or 7 people to come into an onsite, keeping them 26 feet away from each other, giving them masks, bringing them in, you know, over maybe a 2-hour increment and getting an onsite person to come and do an onsite test? You know, we, we probably have to do a lot of workarounds. And I think that this is the a time when you're partnering with your vendor is going to be extremely important and making sure that your vendor partner is working with you throughout the process. I know that Patrick and Joanna are working tirelessly around the clock to try to get people in and getting them seen. But again, it's going to come down to how you work with your vendors. Carmen, I want to double back to you. You had asked us a question. Denise posted in the Q&A box the link around the expired physical. I hope that's helpful for you, and I think, you know, if it's helpful, let me know. If it's not, then we can see how we can help you. So do we have any other questions from our participants?

Yeah. So where can they get this recording once it's done?

Yes, we are going to post this recording. I think this is a really helpful process. Yeah.

So yeah, I'd like to say something to the audience with regards to the DOT program. Employers just in human resources just need to do the best they can to comply with on the DOT side. Of the regulation, drug testing side of the regulations, because you are going to be audited, especially aviation. You don't know who you're going to get as an auditor. Some of them are nice and some of them are very, very strict. And if there is a reason that you're given an excuse why you couldn't get it done and they come up with an excuse why you could have gotten it done, you're going to get a violation. And like I said, a lot of these things are fines. And it's just not worth the risk. So if you ever have any questions, call OM Management. I'll be more than happy to go over it with you. Right. Yeah.

And as I said, it's, you know, one of the key things that I think that I've learned out of this is this is the time when I know the importance of my vendor partner. You know, Max and I have been partnering to do these webinars. These types of webinars for a while now. And, you know, this is why we stepped up and did this. So before we run out of time, Max, I want to talk about the testing, the COVID-19 testing that PHC is doing. We have a bunch of people on the call that wanted to know about that. So please explain how they sign up, what's the process, what's— I mean, I know you probably can't give them classes.

Yeah, we just started the COVID antibody testing. And again, Dr. Nelson explained that there's no guarantee because the news is changing every day and you can possibly now get the COVID-19, you could get it again. I mean, but this test was given— my iPhone started to answer my question, so I don't know.

You have Siri. Siri's answering you. Siri's going, "I got this, I got this, Max." It's so funny.

Siri's like butting in. No, we have the test now. We've gotten a lot of requests for it from big corporate headquarters that want to reopen and feel it would be an opportunity for them to feel some sense of security. Many of their people think they may have had a very mild version of COVID And they're ready to come back to work. So we're able to make these tests available, and, uh, one of my municipalities is thinking of offering it on site, another one where we come on site and set up an area to do them. Uh, again, it is not for somebody who has symptoms of COVID That's a different test, and we're not doing that test. This is to test if you already have the antibody.

Right, if you've already had it.

Yes, if you've had it. And so that's where we are right now. We are going to— we have them at all the medical centers that, you know, our 5 locations, but we're also again putting a program together, adding all the bells and whistles so that people know that it's there in the event it helps them feel more secure about reopening.

Okay, so you're— it'll be So, so how are you envisioning this, Max, is that the employer would maybe give you a list of their employees they want tested, or are you still working through that?

It's also private individuals who want to come in to have it done. Maybe they want to know if their own family member has it. This, although we usually only deal with employees and employers, we're making this test available. It's not very expensive and it's opportunity for people to feel some assurance that maybe they're, they're good right now. And yeah, so we'll see how it goes, and I'll report back the next time we're on a webinar.

Okay, all right, well, maybe we'll, we'll do a short webinar on that topic and, and really talk again with Dr. Nelson about what that is, because I think it's, it's helpful, because I think everybody is is pushing forward to reopen. And as they push forward to reopen, there is some assurances because, um, I was talking with my panel of attorneys for the, for the webinar that we're doing, um, and the consensus is that there's going to be a lot of litigation coming out of this right now. And so employers want to make sure that they are doing the right thing. I cannot stress enough to everyone that you must document training that you're doing around PPEs, training that you're doing around social distancing, training that you're doing around temperature checks, training your managers and supervisors. Put money into your training budget to train people because that is where— that is your only documentation that you did something. So while we can test You also have to train people so they understand what the rules are. And, and so this is the time to do that. We cannot— and, and, and this happened, as I said, last week, the entire week I dealt with a client and a client attorney who was dealing with an OSHA complaint for not having PPEs in the workplace. And then having— and the The— what saved this employer, and I can't stress it enough, what saved this employer was that they had done a PPE training 3 weeks prior, and every supervisor, manager, and employee was in the PPE training. And so when OSHA showed up, they had the documentation of the training that was done. So I cannot say it enough, if you're doing temporary temperature checks. Don't do them randomly out in the air and say, oh, I tested everybody. No, 25 people came through. These are the 25 people that came through. These were their temperatures that I checked them. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of paperwork. But until you know something different, I would err on the side of too much rather than not enough. My thought. That's just my give back to the— Okay, Patrick, final word. You got 2 seconds. What do you want everybody to know as takeaway? Well, on the—

I had information on the COVID-19 testing because there's so many, and some people might be confused of the difference between a test, a screen, and an antibody test. And so the, like, a rapid, a rapid test or rapid screen, like a COVID-19 rapid screen, that's like an instant test and you're getting it tested right there, but that's not 100% accurate. It may or may not be accurate. If there's a finding, then the person should go and get an actual test, and the test usually takes— well, now they have those, the quick test now at certain medical centers where you can actually get a test, but a lot of them are still sent to the lab, which might take anywhere from 3 to 5 days. So that's— so you got a screen, which is the rapid, you can find out immediately, and then you got the test, which is going to take a little bit longer. And more expensive. And then you've got the antibody test, which doesn't tell that if you have it, have COVID-19, but it tells you that you have the antibodies that said that you did have it, or you've built up an antibody to it. Now, you may have had COVID-19 and not know it, and but yet you also have the antibodies, so that would tell you that you came in contact with it, you know, prior.

I mean, is that right? Makes sense. So one of the questions, and the last questions I'm going to take, is from Amy. And I'll pose this question, Amy, to Dr. Nelson. Amy's question is, if the person has 104, 100.4 temperature, and you send them home, then what? They will not get tested over a fever. And I agree with you. That's part of the challenge that we have right now. The fact that the person has a fever doesn't mean they have the symptoms, doesn't mean they have COVID-19. So they're going to have to do telemed, telehealth with their physician, whether that's Physicians Health Center, whether you're going to call PHC and say, I want a telehealth visit for this employee, or you're going to do that through your health insurance provider, or you're going to do that through their primary care doctor. I think at this point, as the employer, the only thing you can direct the employee to do is you have 100.4 temperature, I'm sending you home, you gotta go see a doctor. And you can do that via telehealth. And if your symptoms warrant, the doctor would give you the script to go into that drive-up line to go get the COVID-19 testing done. So we have to be really smart about saying to our employees, go to see a physician. We are not doctors. We're not going to give them any advice. What we are going to do instead is say telehealth is available. Your primary care doctor, dial them up. Do not go to the emergency room because they don't want to see you in there unless you have a serious problem. They've got enough people in the ERs, but they— but you do have access to telehealth. I would make a further recommendation. For all employers is to get a telehealth process going in your organization, because that is going to be critical at this point when you're trying to ferret out, do they have the cold, regular, or do they have COVID-19, or are they having allergy symptoms, or are they having a temperature because they got another kind of infection going on that we can't figure out?

We extended our telehealth. Now is 7 days a week, Monday through Sunday, because we had such a demand for us to be able to respond through telehealth. Right, right.

So as we close out, I want to thank everybody that's hung with us to the end. There's about 87, 88 of you who hung to the end. We are going to make this webinar available. I will send everyone by the end of day today an email with the link to the YouTube so that you can share it. Please share it with anyone who you think needs this information. Please join us for the other webinars. We will add you to our mailing list. If you don't want to be on the mailing list, please feel free to opt out. But we have a couple of really great webinars coming up, and I'd love to have you there. Thank you to Physicians Health Center. Thank you. OM Management. And Work Comp Seminars, which is my company, we will continue to do this as a service to our community, the workers' comp HR community. Thank you again for everybody who joined us. Thank you. Take care, stay safe, wash your hands, social distancing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We want to see you on the other side. So take care of yourself. Take care. Bye-bye.