Rollin' With The DM - Real Talk - Real Access I 004

Foreign.

Everybody, it's your boy Mark Evans, DM here. Rolling with the dm. Real talk, real success hanging out here with World Class Title Chris in Kelly. What's up guys?

What's up Chris? What's up?

How you guys doing? Hey Cali back there, what's going on? Definitely. Thank you for being here guys. I just appreciate you being here and being on this episode. And I kind of want to talk to you guys about title stuff and business building and all that. And real quick, can you guys tell them who you are and what you guys do and all that good stuff.

I'm Kelly with World Class Title. Been owner since 2004. So we do real estate title in Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Kentucky and Florida.

Nice.

I'm Chris Sarzoff, I'm co owner and I've been in the business eight years and I do all the marketing and sales and manage that.

Awesome. And we have this video here too. So he'll be able to edit that and clean that up. So you guys have been doing title and all that and you guys are in Worthington.

Westerville.

Westerville. Westerville. And we've been using your guys service for three, four years now. I think two years. I don't know how many. Right. How many closings have I come to?

You come physically?

Zero. Zero. What's your guys thoughts on people coming to Clos and I know we were talking about this last night at dinner, but coming to closings one and then two, wanting a check at closing for agents or investors? Just investors. Yeah.

It really isn't necessary unless there's, you know, unless they find comfort in that for whatever reason. I know you have definite opinions on that. It really isn't necessary for us, the title company. We can do things, most things pretty virtually nowadays. As long as it doesn't need to be recorded and is an original document in the county, we're good.

Right. How quickly can an investor close? Like say if I find a deal, I send it to you guys. Right. You guys do the title search and whatever you guys do behind the scenes and then I can take it to close it and buy it and or wholesale it. What's the time frame to do that kind of stuff?

Best case, three days, five days. Unless there's title issues. And that all depends on what comes up on the title.

Right. Fairly quickly. So we got that. You can do a fast close. What's your guys's thoughts on people doing assignments of contracts at closings? I know it's a lot of talk. Everyone talks about it every day. But are you guys dealing like no one wants to see someone making 20 grand on a deal. Right. So what's your thoughts on how to address that properly when they come to you?

We don't enjoy doing them just because you're dealing with a lot of factors that can blow the deal up, especially when they see how much you're making on the assignment end. So we prefer to do it as a double closing where you buy it outright with your own funds and you turn around and you sell it and get your proceeds that way.

Right. So it's transactional funding and. Or have your own money, right?

Absolutely.

Oh, that's great. Okay, so guys, again, if you have, if you're making money on a deal, typically you want to do a double close. Very simple, right. Very quick and easy. Same day, typically.

And we've done them back to back within minutes of each other.

That's awesome. So on your guys side, so a new an investor's watching you guys do deals again, we're in Ohio, Kentucky, Pennsylvania.

New Jersey and Florida.

New Jersey and Florida. So if you guys want to reach out to them, how would they reach out to you guys?

You can go to Our website, World.

Classtitle.com WorldClasstitle.com Reach out to them and just have a conversation with them.

All right.

What's an average closing? I know we were talking about this at dinner at night. Like what's an average closing cost on like a $50,000 house? Do you know? I don't know if do.

Around 500 bucks.

500 bucks or something.

I mean, it depends on a lot of different things. Right? Depends on where it is, what kind of insurance we're doing, that sort of thing. So plus or minus.

And honestly, Chris and I don't work with the figures because that's what we have a closing department for. So the girls in the closing department can get accurate quotes at any time.

You can usually estimate about 1%. Right. I mean, if you're doing 1%, you're going to be in the ballpark, price wise. Right.

What's your guys biggest frustration as business owners of a title company? Working with investors. Like, what's your biggest frustration? That if they would work on this piece, it'd make everyone's life easier.

I'm gonna say the trust factor.

Trust.

Yeah, the trust factor. We've known what we're doing. We work with investors every day and we know what direction we need to take to get the deals closed as quickly as possible. So when we don't have to Battle with somebody about the quickest way to get things done versus the right way to get things done. Makes our lives a lot easier.

Yeah. And I would add to that, Mark, that, you know, if you. If you're looking to find someone to say yes, you'll find someone to say yes. But that doesn't mean it's the right thing.

Right.

So, you know, we. We all want to close deals. Right. But none of us want to close deals that can jeopardize any of our livelihoods.

Yeah, no, I mean, I think that's key. A lot of investors, especially amateur investors, they just want. They just want the deal to close, as we all do. But you want to do it the right way is what you're saying. Right. Just find another thing, too. Right. I think a lot of times people are out here price shopping title companies, which is silly to do, and, I mean, there's not even a big variance anyways.

Right.

I mean, they're all pretty much the same price points. Right?

Yeah, we're.

I would think so.

Title insurance products, the insurance itself is regulated by the state, so there isn't any real variation there. And then the rest of it becomes what you're paying for for the service you're getting.

Right. I know. I always tell my clients, I don't think we've ever came to you and said, we need a discount bubble. Like, I don't think we've done that, have we? Okay. Like, you hire people and you want them to make money, because if they don't make money, they don't want your account.

Right. Yeah, it's true.

Same thing with us.

Yeah.

Right. So it's like, why price shop? I mean, and you're only gonna save, what, 50 or 100 bucks a deal, if that.

Yeah.

So it's like, you know, call for convenience. Another thing, too, I always tell investors is prepare. Like, don't be reactive all the time. And in this industry, sometimes there is a little bit of reactiveness. But how can they make the job easier when they hand you off the deal to kind of step back? You kind of said it, Kelly. Like, let me do my job. That's what we're good at. So that's like a team. People don't understand. You guys are part of the team. Right. That's a fit. Like, that's a huge value add for you as an investor, if you're watching. So what else, like, in the business? How's business looking, though? Everything good?

Business is great. I would add to that one part you just mentioned. Mark was is ask questions. Ask questions. We're here to help. We want, we all want to grow and build business together. So if you, if you're not sure something, you know, mistakes in this business can cost you a lot of money. So ask questions, especially at this part of the, part of the title side, you don't want to get stuck.

Let me ask you a question. What would be like top three questions they should ask? I don't even know the questions either myself.

What do you think?

How do we go about having clear title?

Clear title.

You want to buy a property without any liens or other people's interest involved and that's key. Second is how do we go about getting it closed? A lot of people, as you know, think they have to go to a closing. Our investors don't. On the buy side, if you're buying cash, it's all digital. On the sell side, you get the deed signed and sent over to us via overnight and we're done with that.

Right.

And the third, as you've talked about, you don't ever get a check at closing. We do a lot with wires and people have this hang up about having funds wired or wiring out. It's so much easier and so much foolproof than what we usually have.

We get people asking about dower a lot. In Ohio specifically, it's a little bit different here in Florida, but in Ohio if you're married and you're buying or selling a property as an individual, you need that spouse there, period. If you're a company or an llc, that's different. But that's one that comes up a lot. I think the other one is right now we're seeing a lot of, we're seeing a lot of fraud happening with, not individuals so much as to online fraud, wire scams and things like that. So it's important that you're making sure that your title companies are vetting them with what kind of safeguards they have in place with technology, you know, making sure that they have two step verification on their emails or talking them about just in general what kind of password protections they're using. Because that's what we're seeing. Hackers are going in, getting email addresses from title companies and they're getting in and getting wire instructions and things like that. It's, it's a, it's a big deal up north right now. So I don't know if it's come down this way yet, but I don't.

Know what you're talking about. But yeah, I mean, I think that as the Industry gets more online and more virtual. Right. I think those things are going to definitely pop up. So how do they. I mean, I've never heard of the issue or had the issue happen, but obviously you guys are on the inside. Is it what really just kind of. Even if it's just as much as pick up the phone and say, hey, did you send me this wire?

Yeah.

Info.

Yeah. Be making sure that that's a. That's one way do it is making sure you're having the personal connection in addition with the online. What's happening. So if you have a weak password on your email account, there's hackers that are targeting real estate agents and title companies right now. And so what they'll do is they'll get into their email and they're really smart about it. They'll come send an email back to their contact list saying, hey, I need this file. I need you to upload it to my Dropbox and they'll ask for all of your personal information to get access to your. And so they're getting access to wire instructions, they're getting access to account numbers or it's. It's happening and people are getting in and losing lots of money because of it. So you just have to make sure that your title company are. They're using password protections, two step verifications. It's going to, it's going to become more and more of an issue.

Right. How are you guys seeing the business, the real estate business? I mean, how was last six months? I mean we're in the middle of June now, about 16. Like the business. Is it growing? Is it shrinking? Is there more inventory, less inventory in the Columbus market specifically. Right. That's where you guys are at.

Yeah, in Columbus specifically. The market's great. Market's really hot right now. Our problem for sure is lack of inventory. So our inventory is down. But. But things are moving. I mean it's, it's so crazy right now that a lot of times properties aren't even making it into the mls.

Right.

That's how. That's how hot it is. Is.

That's great. What do you guys think as the market is progressing? Where do you see it in 12 months from now? I mean, what's your thoughts? You guys have any insight on that?

We. We think it'll stabilize a bit. We think inventory will begin to loosen up a little bit. It's still going to be hot in 12 months. We think. We thought last year was hot and this year was, was crazier. So I don't see that letting up. There doesn't seem to be any indicator why that would happen. Hopefully inventory loosens up a little bit because we're seeing now is little more equity in homes, so people are able to loosen up a little bit. Maybe people that have been hanging on and not been able to sell for whatever reason are now going to have a little equity that they can do something right.

Like there's people watching from all over the world. What do you guys think about Columbus, Ohio? I love it, but what do you guys think about it?

Columbus is a fantastic city. It's a. It's a wonderful quality of life. I moved out there in 97 from the east coast and I just never went back. It's a great place to live, raise a family. The cost of living is low and just a ton of great companies out there.

What do you think?

Great options for food and shopping. You know, we have everything that the larger cities have, so it's been a great place to live. I transplanted here in 1995, I believe, so I've been here a while.

That's awesome. Yeah, people from like, California, like, oh, Columbus, what is that? Like, they think it's like a blip on the map. And I'm like, it's an amazing city for sure. And the government's put so much money in the infrastructure over there, the downtown with the new baseball fields and all that. I mean, the city's amazing when you have.

I mean, you have such good, large organ corporations there. You not only have the University of Ohio State, but you have. The state government is there. You have. The city's a big employer. You have things like limited brands, Victoria's Secret, nationwide insurance, image.

Right. And you guys are moving up into the Cleveland market you like, right? Possibly. And doing some deals up there.

Yeah, we like, we want to push out a little more in Ohio. We're exploring Cleveland. We have some great relationships up there that we're beginning to push on a little harder. So we really wanted to get our hands around Columbus and grow smart. Not just grow to grow, but grow to be smart about it.

Right. Talking about business, you guys have decent sized team.

Right now we're up to 14 people.

14 people. That's awesome how you guys work really hard on your business. I know we've kind of done a little bit of collaboration with you to help for us and you. And I think it just streamlines processes. But like, what can an investor do or what can someone else do to like, help make your business easier, their life easier, and everyone wins. Is There any kind of, is there anything out there? Like if someone's watching, they're like, oh, I'm an amazing at this. Like what could help your business grow today?

It's a good question. This is a really, it's a, it's a really relationship based business. We try to do some value add things like helping our clients. Whether it's create more exposure by Facebook or Facebook targeted ads, social media, we're doing a lot of that, we're doing some print marketing with, helping our clients with some of those things. So we're trying to add different value in addition to great service to grow our business, but more importantly, help our clients grow their business. Because if that happens, then we all win.

Right, Right.

So you know, I think, think communication, you know, finding out what it, what are your needs, what can we help with, how can we add some value to you and see what, what it is that you're doing and maybe there's opportunities to collaborate.

Yeah, it's awesome. So I mean on your guys aside, like, I mean you guys work with agents as well, obviously. Brokers, agents, your social MLS thing is really geared towards agent slash broker style. Right. So I mean they got a great Facebook presence. They got a lot of like social media experience. You guys got great interns to help you guys kind of push this product out. What other services and products do you guys provide to people watching like as an agent or broker?

We in central Ohio, we're very listing centric. So a lot of our products are geared towards listings. So we'll do anything from actually sending out photographers to listings to get things shot. We'll do the print materials that'll sit in the house, we'll do the profiles, the neighborhood profiles. We'll do Facebook targeted ads. We do some Instagram. We do, we really like to create content pieces for buyers and sellers so they'll share those in their network of friends, families and neighbors and people that know their home and they're likely to be that real estate agent or the investor's next client. So we're really trying to push down in those areas. That's primarily what we're focusing on right now when it comes to growing our business.

Nice. That's great. And growing their business for sure. Right. Which is awesome. It's kind of a win win for everyone. So on your side of the business, we've said it a couple times, this is a relationship business, not just a. I think a lot of people see it as a transactional business. They're kind of intimidated by you guys. When actually they should be the least intimidated by you guys. Right. You're there to help them get the deal to closing. What's your thoughts on how do they forge a relationship with you? Say if they only done one or two deals, they make a connection with you. They start. What's the easiest way to start forging the relationship together?

I get a phone call. My team is always ready and willing to sit down with everybody and take as much time as necessary. Investors that are local have come into our office and just hung out for an hour or two just to kind of learn more of what they can be doing differently. And it's just that communication, just taking the time to talk.

Right. Okay.

Yeah. I think the other thing is, too, is building trust, like you said, is important, but also not coming into the relationship as trying to be a taker.

Right.

You know, there's a lot of takers in our industry. And, you know, Mark, we've talked about this recently, and, like, it's. Everybody can be successful and can win together. There's no. It isn't necessary. If you're coming into the first transaction you've ever gonna do with a title company, don't ask them for stuff. Right. Like, whether it's above and beyond what it is we would do. We want to help. We want to do things. Marketing packages. We want to do all of those things. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about, you know, hey, can you cut my fees? Hey, can. Can I get this for nothing? Can I do. You know, that's not how you build a relationship.

Yeah. I mean, that's when you started really. Well, first of all, it's not a relationship at that point. It's very transactional. Right. Like, they're coming to you like, hey, can we cut fees? They're. They're cutting stuff. Fees on stuff that don't even matter. Like, at this point, like, it's just thin air, opportunity. It's not even real.

Yeah. And that's a red flag to us that says, you know, we're. You're. You don't see the value we're bringing to the table. It's. We're not a commodity.

Right.

Right. And it. And unfortunately, our industry has done a really poor job of treating each other like commodities. Who can cut the most and give away the most for free? And it's just a really. A race to the bottom.

Yeah. It's. No one wins either. Like, I've never understood the model. And we're not talking a lot of Money. I know some investors, like, well, I'm a negotiator and blah, blah, blah. Like, there's certain things you should negotiate on and certain things you should negotiate on. So it's like these guys have your back. I mean, for what, three, four, whatever the cost is. It's all irrelevant because they're gonna get that. They're gonna help you get the. If you guys just could help get one extra deal to the end zone at the end of the day per year. Like if you guys pay for yourself ten times over.

Yeah.

You know.

Yeah. And, you know, and we go above and beyond whatever we can do physically possible to get stuff done. That's what we do.

Right.

So it's not a matter of not wanting to get things done and having your back, right?

No. It's awesome. So how's, like, when people are buying these houses, let's say if a hundred, you guys close 100 deals in a month, how many people are buying them for cash? The reason I ask a lot of people, if you're brand new or maybe you don't have much money, people are thinking, no one has cash. You know, we live in a poor economy. It's really tough right now. How many people are actually paying cash for houses besides you? Yeah. Percentages wise?

Yeah.

So like, 100 deals close, like, out of how many more? All cash? What do you think?

I'm gonna say good. 50%, 50%. A lot of cash deals. And we've modified a process to be able to, you know, facilitate those quicker. And we're seeing a lot more.

Right. Especially in this market. It's so competitive that when you have 5, 6, 10 offers on a property, you know, the. The person with the cash and that can close the fastest is 9 out of 10 times gonna win.

Yep. Right. Cash is king. How are you guys seeing, like, what the cash deals like? Because a lot of people are trying to, like, build the cash buyers list and all that. What do you guys see? Like, what's an easy way? Like, if someone's, you know, at home, has time on their hands, not a lot of money, but has time, can they go down to, like, the public records and see who's paying cash for houses? How's that work?

It's a little more complicated. You have to do a lot of searching.

A lot of searching.

No way to search directly by cash or loan deals. You can search a property and then go to the public records and see if there's a mortgage file.

Okay.

But it's kind of hard just to search random Properties and see which ones were cash and which ones weren't.

Right.

There's a little more work involved.

Right. How are you. Because you guys. I mean, what's the percentage you guys deal with investors as opposed to retail?

Probably. Probably 70. 30. Probably 70% retail. 30%. 30 to 40, I would say. You know, it varies a bit, but.

Right. That's great. I mean, do you got. You guys like retail as well, right? Of course.

Yeah, we like it.

All right.

I mean, this is what.

We just want to close deals. That's what we do.

You know, we like refis. We love refis. If you're lending, we love refis, too. We've definitely switched up our game in the last few years because of the market shifted, but we were a refi shop originally, and we were originally doing 90% refis.

Wow.

So now we're doing, you know, 90 purchases.

Nice. Yes. I mean, you're seeing that transition, right? You guys kind of see the refis changing. Certain markets will have refis. I think we're talking about Baltimore, like, more of a refi market as opposed to an acquisition market or a purchase market and all that. Right.

A lot of it is based on equity, so. And now as equity begins to grow back a bit because prices are going up, it'll loosen up the refi market, hopefully. The other side to that, though, is those who have. Who could refi. The last few years, the rates have been so low, it's hard to imagine a lot of them are going to touch it, but you never know, right? People need to do home improvements. You need to pay off credit card debt. You know, you get it back into that whole thing.

We'll see. No, it's great. So someone's watching. And, like, I'm always thinking, like, I never know what the new people are asking you guys, if they call in, obviously, if they. If you guys are calling to negotiate fees, don't call these guys. Like, it's not. It's a waste of everyone's time. And you're looking at the wrong thing, too, if you're doing that. But in all seriousness, like, when they call you guys, like, how can you bet? How can you best serve them? And how, like, they call in and say, hey, I have a property. And they can just call you guys. Right. Kelly. And you guys will give them the next step. Okay, you have a property, submit it this way. And we'll do XYZ based out the timelines and all that with them.

The first question we usually get from people that haven't dealt with us before is, do you do assignment of contracts? Okay, we have that discussion. We explain the difference between the assignment of contracts and the double closings, and then we talk them through the process and let them know who exactly they're going to be dealing with every step of the way and time frame and the realistic expectations on both ends.

Okay. And if you guys are doing double closings, I reckon. I mean, if you're doing assignments of contracts, I always recommend double closings, ideally. And if not, if you need money to do that, I might be able to do transactional funding. We were done with that last night.

It's just the right way to do it.

It is. It's just cleaner.

Yeah.

So that brings me to another question, because we do some double closing sometimes if we're doing a lot of deals. But on your side, when we do a double closing, say if I'm buying from you, Chris, and getting ready to sell to, you know, I'm buying from you, and then I'm selling to Kelly. How do we, like, are we paying two times on the insurance policies and all that? How's that policy process work?

It depends with you. You always like to have the owner's policy when you purchase it to have that peace of mind. Some people opt not to do the double insurance.

Okay.

But the other fees aren't double.

Right.

We'll have discounted on the end of the search. We just did the search. We're not going to charge a full search again.

Right.

If we're doing it all in one day, we're not charging double closing fees. We're not charging separate shipping fees.

Okay.

We're consolidating those, you know, minimal on the second.

Oh, that's great. So what, what, like, I mean, it might cost an extra because some people I already know, they're like, oh, well, I'm trying to discount already, and now I got to pay double the fees. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, the truth is, like, if you're passing on a deal and we're only talking maybe, what, an extra $500 to do a double closing. If that. So, like, the reason that's important is because now you're. I mean, you're doing things properly, and if $500 is going to change the deal, it's probably not a deal.

Yeah. In the scheme of things, a couple hundred dollars to do things the right way is penny right. It just for peace of mind, if nothing else.

Yeah. Where do you see people getting in trouble if they do it wrong? I mean, because they could pass on a Bad deal. Right. In essence, with a bad title or.

Yeah, we clear up a lot of title issues where people have missed a signature on a deed.

Oh, wow.

Especially in Ohio Dower.

Right.

If you don't have your spouse sign up, they have an interest, and you better hope that they're still on good terms. We've seen it where it hasn't been.

Right.

Prior liens, prior mortgages. Are title companies searching back far enough, even on a small, you know, cash deal? We're going back, minimum 42 years.

Oh, wow.

Making sure that we're searching every deed chain and every lien and making sure they all have property releases, so.

Right.

No, that's great. So 42 years, really? Wow. How. Like, how long can you. How far can you go back when you're searching stuff like that? 100 years? Yeah, probably.

We've seen it go back to the 1800s.

Oh, wow.

But usually they. Our underwriting standard safe is 42 to the next base deed.

So. Okay.

For purchases, we do that standard.

Standard. Okay. Enter. I didn't even know that. I learned something new every day. I don't know what I'm gonna do with this information, but I learned something so awesome, guys. So on your end. So anything else, like, someone's watching this, they'll contact you@worldclasstitle.com.

Yeah, we're our Facebook page. Facebook.com worldclass title.

Anything else? Kelly, on your side, like, how can we help them grow, make more deals? Stop looking at this as a, you know, just a transactional, like, really a relationship because, like, send you guys gifts. You guys like gifts, right?

Oh, Mark, we love it when you send us gifts. But, no, that's not why we do it, for sure. You know, we like having that relationship with our clients, and it becomes a friendship, and we start to look forward to those people coming into our office or, you know, giving us a phone call. It's great to see.

Yeah.

I mean, look at what we're doing here today.

Yeah.

I mean, this is what it's about.

Where.

Who would have thought. You know, who would have thought that we'd be in West Palm rolling with the DM and.

Right.

This is what it's about. It's about relationships. We want to be looked at as a. As a resource and as a partner, not as just another vendor.

Yeah. And then, like, you guys do a great job. We tell someone about you, they tell someone about. Like, that's how we grow all growing our business.

It all comes back around.

Like, the problem is in our industry, because I'm in the, you know, same industry as well, but, like, not on your side. But people are like, well, I can get it cheaper. I can get cheaper. Well, you can get everything cheaper. You can also pay more. But what are you really trying to accomplish? Look at the full picture. You know, I'm part of the team. They're part of your team. Your insurance company should be part of your team. Your contractors are like, this is team building.

Yeah. That's it.

Right? Like, the better, bigger I grow, the more you guys can grow. And we work together and we talk about collaboration and relationships, and we've really never, like, hammered. Like, I don't. I don't call you guys. Well, I very rarely talk to you guys on the phone at all. Right. So. And that's a good thing. That means actually things are happening because if we have time to call you and you have time to talk to me, we're probably not doing anything.

Yeah. Or that. And, you know, oftentimes no news is good news. So if you're calling, it's. It's probably because maybe something screwed up and we don't. None of us want that. Yeah.

And honestly, you guys are amazing. I at that.

Right.

We very, very ultra. And it's usually not even us. It's something from the seller or whatever when we're acquiring. So. Awesome. Well, Chris and Kelly, thank you guys for being here. Thank you, dm. Thank you, guys. World class title dot com. Check them out, use them. If not, we're coming after you. Have a great day, guys.

Bye.

Bye.

Sa.