Joe Buck: "So What!" (Season 2, Episode 9)

Hey, Longview listener, just a heads up. This recording was done while I was on vacation and wasn't in the studio. I was using AirPods. So if you notice a difference in sound quality, please excuse it, but I got a chance to interview a legend and I made it happen. Welcome to Take the Longview with Matt Hall. This is a podcast to reframe the way you think about your money, emotion, and time. The goal? Helping you put the odds of long-term success on your side. That's my whistle, Joe. You know Joe Buck's voice, but you likely don't really know Joe. And I didn't either, but I feel like I know more now, and I'm loving what he's sharing. The Joe Buck you know is a hugely successful, Emmy-winning broadcaster, entertainer. He's the announcer of the most significant sporting events in the country, maybe the world. Super Bowls, World Series, and more. Even some bass fishing and golf at different times in his career. I used to feel like his voice was everywhere in those pre-pandemic days. Joe Zoom-bombed my company's morning meeting, and after the encounter, I picked up his 2016 book, Lucky Bastard: My Life, My Dad, and the Things I'm Not Allowed to Say on TV, and I loved it. Joe is also sharing a new side of himself through his podcast, Daddy Issues, co-hosted with his pal Oliver Hudson. As the podcast and book title suggest, Joe can laugh at himself. I predict that post our conversation, you'll have a new appreciation and understanding for the voice that brings us the biggest moments. Joe, welcome to Take the Long View.

Matt Hall, how are you? Thank you. A very nice introduction. Not sure I'm worthy, but I'll try to live up to it in the next X number of hours that we're going to do this. I've planned maybe 4 days we're going to talk on this podcast. Settle in, folks, you're in for a long ride.

You're funny, but we could talk for 4 days. I have 4 days worth of notes because when I read your book, which came out in 2016, but for me it feels brand new, I felt like I was seeing this whole other side of you. And, you know, it feels to me like there's this intention you must have had in your podcast and in the book of letting go of the perfection that has to sometimes be a part of your job and letting loose and being free and just really showing a whole new side of yourself.

Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I'm glad you identified that. I think, for lack of a better way of putting it, being a sports announcer these days does call for, at times, the need for perfection. And you use a good word there. And it's really not a perfect science. I mean, it's a live sporting event. I have no idea what I'm going to see when I walk into a stadium or an arena, or as you said, to a golf course, whatever I'm doing that day. And trying to be perfect is at times just squeezing the life out of the event for me. And, you know, I think today with social media and the way you're kind of held to this standard of— at times you feel like kind of a punching bag out there. It gets in your head and it takes a lot of the fun that I saw my dad have with this profession. Harry Carey, people of that generation, they weren't held to trying to be perfect. They were just themselves. And so I think not being able to be that way on the air in my day job, so to speak, forced me in a way to kind of want to get that out through the book, through the podcast, through appearances. If I come speak for an event, whatever it might be, I think I'm way more myself. So yeah, it's been extremely liberating. I'm glad I wrote the book. It's probably the best thing I've ever done for myself, along with meeting my now wife and having two more boys, two more kids. But yeah, this is a way for me to get on the record who I am, what I'm about, and then let people really judge me when they know the whole picture.

Yeah, I wrote a book too, and I was scared to share some vulnerable or human elements because I just didn't know if anybody cared or if it would do anything. And what was surprising to me is how many people connected with the most vulnerable or human parts were the parts that people really felt this bond with me over or shared their own experiences later with me. And I think I would just say in reading your book, I feel the same way. I cried in my driveway doing chores like sweeping, blowing the driveway off, when you talk about your dad and his passing and how you dealt with it and the night you, after a game, you went back to the hospital and told him it was okay to go. I mean, it was really powerful stuff. Yeah. How did you decide having not shared that side of yourself before? And my guess is like your dad, you're amazing at being sort of the after-dinner speaker. He was known as— and you say this in the book too— the greatest after-dinner speaker ever. My guess is that's where you would show a side of your personality too. How did you decide to do this? What was the, what was the genesis of, I'm going to open up and share some of these personal private things with people?

I think probably going through therapy, going through depression as I did back in 2011, nearly losing my career as a result of having hair plug surgery that paralyzed the nerve that fires my left vocal cord, which is still not 100%. It's 90-something percent. But back then, I sounded like this, and I thought I was finished. And it was 9 months of that almost, and kind of just being taken down to my knees on that and just being frustrated. And I felt like if I'm going to write a book, I'm going to write a book. I'm not— what's the point of of holding anything back. Now, you can't be reckless. I mean, there, there's plenty more that I could say. There's opinions I could have publicly on different people that I've worked with that, that wouldn't suit anybody. Um, there— I went through a divorce. I talk about that. My greatest, I guess, counsel that I employed for the release of this book were my two daughters, who at the time were 20 and 17. And once they read it and they were okay with everything I said about myself, about their grandma and their grandpa, about their mom, about my own struggle with depression, about really everything— once they were okay with all that, I was good. And that, that was really the only worry I had, was were my kids going to be okay with everything that I shared? And once they were good, I was good to go, and that's what made it fun. I mean, I think if I wrote something that was just along the same lines as what you see on a Sunday or on a baseball broadcast, I just don't know that I would have gotten any satisfaction out of it. So, um, I'm glad I, you know, I, I opened up, and I would advise anybody if they're gonna put something out there for the record, as much as you can— it's not easy these days be yourself and fling the doors open and let people see who you really are.

You know, I said in the intro, this part of this podcast and what I try to do with this is reframe the way people see things. And one of my favorite parts of the book is your daughter actually literally reframes something. You talk in the early part of the book about how there was this really hurtful article that sort of said that you got to where you were at the time because of who your dad was. And, uh, it was really a tough thing to deal with and get over. And then your Your daughter later in the book frames that article and uses it as like a source of pride. Like, you're damn right, we're Bucs. Who else is better suited to do this? And that's at least how I read it. It was like, she literally reframed the thing.

Well, when I read it, I read it the way it was intended. And it was intended as a slam, like, and it's true. I mean, come on, I would not be, would not have been broadcasting in the minor leagues at 19 if I wasn't my dad's son. But that comes with a lot of things, not only, you know, the unique factor of having Jack Buck's son do minor league games for, at the time, the Louisville Redbirds, but it also comes with somebody who's young, cheap, and has an entire lifetime of being around a Hall of Fame broadcaster and is carrying some of that into your booth. So it works both ways if you can do the job. And then I wouldn't have been with the Cardinals when I was 21. But when I got hired, Dan Caesar, who still writes today for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch and is the main TV critic, sports TV critic, wrote an article and it was basically talking about the idea of nepotism. And it said, you know, how does Joe Buck get hired? I'll spell it out for you. It's B-U-C-K. Well, for my daughter, who at the time was, you know, in her mid-teens, she read it like, like you said, I mean, you got it. She read it like, yeah, you're damn right. It's Buck and it's Jack's son and he's good too. And, but that's not how it was intended, but it was just funny to see through her eyes. That was a compliment. And through the old kind of bitter look on life, like I've developed over my years at times, it was, It was a criticism. So, uh, it's still up on my wall in my bedroom. Uh, it'll never come down. And that was an article that I used to use to kind of give me drive and make me work hard. And now I kind of look at it every day when I walk out of my bedroom and kind of give it a smile and go on about my day.

Okay. Let's talk for a second about So What. So What is something your dad had I think inscribed on a bracelet.

Yes.

He gave to your mom. What does "So what?" mean to you?

Well, it means different things to, to different members of my family. So for my mom, it was given to her by my dad on a bracelet because she was struggling with my dad's first set of kids and kind of the tension that comes with being the second wife and everything else that's involved with divorce and, and being, you know, wife number 2. And it was, you know, okay, my first 6 kids aren't being nice to you, so what? It doesn't really affect you. It's not going to affect us. We're going to live our lives. And then when I was going through a divorce, I did the same thing. I had that tattooed on my arm. So what? Like, I'm going through depression. I damn near lost my voice. Even if I had, if it became permanent, there are other things to do in life. So what? Move on, adjust. You know, you can't let that just become debilitating. And that bracelet that my dad gave my mom, my mom gave my oldest daughter when her parents were going through a divorce. So it's been kind of this hand-me-down that is a simple two-word phrase that I think a lot of people need to use more in their lives. Like, this didn't go perfectly, so what? Let's just— let's make the best of what we've got. And, you know, my dad had a saying: things turn out best for those who make the best of the way things turn out. I don't think that he— I'm sure he didn't— I don't know whose original quote that was, but that's how he lived. And he lived, you know, I'll tell you when to worry, or don't holler till you're hurt. I think that's lost in today's society, and everybody's just so ready to be mad and insulted and complain and cry, and it's just like, man, so what? Pick it up and move on. And, uh, I've really tried to live by that. I don't always accomplish it, but I really try to use that as my guidebooks.

I love that. So what? Okay. I also love this example in the book where you called your dad after a World Series game and you're like, so what'd you think of the game? And he goes, what time's it on? And you're like, ha ha ha ha, very funny. You want to tell the rest of that?

Yeah. It was after my first World Series. It ended in game 6 and I was 27 and I was at Yankee Stadium and it was my first time on the national stage doing a big event like that. And I called home afterward, as I did any other game if it was on in the St. Louis area, and my dad was watching it. Certainly my mom was glued to the TV, that was a given. But my dad answered, and I said, "Well, what'd you think?" I said, "Just finished my first World Series." And he said, "What time does the game come on?" And I said, "Haha, funny." And he said, "It was great, Buck, it was great." And then he handed the phone to my mom, And my mom, you know, talked to me about the game. And the next day I called my mom and I said, what's up with Dad? I mean, I called him last night and he just said it was great and handed the phone to you. And she said that he was crying so hard because he was so proud that he couldn't talk, and he just didn't want to be choking out words to me. And I, I don't think that he wanted me to know the depth of his pride, because I think in his mind that would have put more pressure on me to try to live up to that. So he just kind of left all that at arm's length, and I'm so thankful for that. He didn't hover over me. He didn't watch a game and say, here's how I would have done it if I had that home run call, or, you know, I wouldn't have done this, I would have done this. And that gave me freedom to just develop my own personality on the air. And without that A, I probably wouldn't have been as close to my dad as I was, and B, I might have resented the position and maybe fought against it and maybe hung it up at some point if I felt like, man, I can't live up to this Hall of Famer's standard. So it was a lot of things in a very short amount of time that I think crystallized for me about my dad, that he would tell any passerby what I was doing sometimes the money I was making, the house I was building, but he never hit me in the face with that stuff and just kind of let me be. And I try to do my best to do that to my own kids too.

Yeah, that's actually a perfect segue because you say that in many ways, because your dad was 44, I think, when you were born, he treated you more like a pal, like you were like his— I think he had a nickname for you. It was like Jasper Pennypucker.

Yes.

And, uh, and you were like his little buddy, but he gave you so much independence. He would give you money and be like, go, go do some fun stuff, kid. Which, you know, no one could imagine today.

No, you'd never see the kid again.

As you think about him like being your buddy and your best friend and your pal, how does that impact you as a parent? You have two girls who are grown, but you have two young twin boys. How will that sort of inform your parenting?

That's— I, I try to do it the same way. I'm not as loose as my dad. I am more my mom. My dad, you know, was a World War II vet and a Purple Heart earner, not recipient. You earn a Purple Heart by getting shot, which he was in Germany during World War II. But he, he didn't really worry much about things. I, I do worry too much. I think if there's one thing that I would love to take out of my DNA, it would be the worry gene that I inherited from my mom. But I, I do try to treat my kids as my friends. And I would say that if, uh, I wasn't sitting there and you were talking right now to my daughters, Natalie and Trudy, 24 and 21, and you said, who's your go-to, who's your best friend, they would both say me. Now maybe I'm a narcissist and an egomaniac, but I I've heard them say that to others, and they've said it to me, and I'm so thankful for that. And I'm going to treat the boys the same way. I, I think you have to put the time in in order for them to know that you're more than a pal, you know. You are authority to them. You are the one that's telling them, no, don't do that. They do have to listen to you, but they can also come to you with anything. And I've seen that happen in my girls' lives. They trust me with information. They know that if they share something with me that's really deep and dark, that I'm going to keep it to myself and give them my best advice. And I'm really hopeful that my boys feel the same way. I love bumming around with my girls, and I'm going to love the same thing being with my boys. And, you know, but that came with being a good kid, the dad part. When I was— when you're talking about my dad, I was not a kid that was getting in trouble. I was not going to waste my time when he was in St. Louis because he traveled a lot with him having to discipline me. I wanted to be free and clear to go and do stuff with him. And so I was a good kid and my girls were good kids. I didn't have to, you know, punish and punish and punish. And so they had my trust. They never violated that trust. And hopefully I can build that up with the boys too. I'll be an older man, but it'll be It'll be fun to give it a shot.

Can you imagine dragging them into dugouts the way you were? I like the story about someone giving you chewing tobacco when you were—

Yeah, well, I used to— well, you know, when I was on the road with my dad, I was my own man, even when I was 8, 9, 10 years old. 12, certainly. But yeah, going to Vegas, and as you said, him giving me $20, him rolling craps all night and me going to the arcade playing Donkey Kong and then letting myself up into the room and watching TV and getting room service and waiting for him to come in at 6 in the morning. And then we catch a flight back to St. Louis when there were actually flights to St. Louis. It was a different time, certainly. But yeah, I think, again, my dad was not a worrier. So I would bat boy. My dad was doing the game and I would sit mainly up in the booth, but there were also days where I would just bat boy and guys would torture me. I mean, I was the little fat kid running around and they gave me chewing tobacco one time and I was trying to be cool and I was probably 12 and 10, I don't know what I was, and I put it in my lip and everything was fine for about 20 seconds and then I started to basically almost throw up and I had to run out there and get the bats and I was zigzagging out there because I was dizzy from the whatever the hell's in chewing tobacco, tobacco. But he laughed about that stuff. And, you know, me finding my own way and being kind of a man or a young man before my age would have said that I was, was the greatest gift I could have ever been given. Because my God, my dad was gone a lot. I had to be the man of the house sometimes when I was 13, 14, 15 years old. My sister had to listen to me. My mom leaned on me for that stuff and You know, I got it because I could handle it. I think I proved that day after day when I was a little boy.

Favorite baseball player of all time?

Ozzie Smith. I mean, I could give you paragraphs on these things, but Ozzie Smith would be, you know, it's in the book, I think, that when he got traded to the Cardinals, my dad took him around St. Louis. It was a different time again, but he brought him over to our house and I'm playing catch with Ozzie Smith in our backyard. Driveway. And, uh, man, he just was the nicest guy then, and he's been the— I mean, he's just the most consistently nice guy for a Hall of Fame athlete as I've ever met. So easily it's Ozzie Smith.

Yeah, you talk about how he could hold his hands in a position where he could let the ball hit his glove and bounce to his throwing hand without moving.

It was, it was a magic trick. Yeah, he could It was almost like a glove that wasn't totally broken in. And, you know, that put pressure on me. He's like, here, throw it to my glove. And I'm like, I'm trying. But every once in a while I would hit it and it would just go in the edge of his glove, roll down the palm, come out of the heel of his glove into his other hand without anything moving. And it was, I mean, he just, the best hand-eye coordination. Maybe Tony Gwynn is the only guy that had better hand-eye coordination, maybe. But yeah, Ozzie was a freak like that.

Okay, favorite broadcast moment of your dad's?

My answer to that is not what you would think. So it's not the Kirk Gibson home run, "I don't believe what I just saw," or the go crazy folks go crazy when Ozzie Smith hit a home run in '85 against the Dodgers. It's, for me, it's him calling a no-hitter in 1971 by Bob Gibson. So he was still a young man in his mid-40s, 40s. He was finally the number one broadcaster. Harry Carey had been fired at that point, and he was doing the 9th inning of big games like that. And when Gibson is finishing his no-hitter— my dad loved the beauty of baseball, he loved Bob Gibson, uh, and he loved the beauty of a no-hitter— and you can hear my dad's voice crack because he's getting emotional. So He says, you know, "It's a strike call for Gibson, a no-hitter." And you can hear it because he's choking back tears. And that just says everything to me. It's his love for his job. Like, he would've rather gone down to work even at his sickest than sit around the house or have a day off. He just loved what he did. And me as a kid seeing that is why I wanted to be him when I was a little boy.

Sometimes I think about the plot sequence of sporting events. You know, they don't always work out the way a play does, where there's building tension and it's like a crescendo. But with a no-hitter, the tension is building and building and building. And so it's naturally so much more exciting because the plot sequence is working out in a way that you can't stop, you can't pull away, you don't want to leave it, even if you don't love the pitcher. I've watched people who were throwing no-hitters just because I'm interested in seeing how this thing plays out because the tension is building.

Yeah, that's a great point. I've never thought of it in those terms, but you're right. And I think that's— those are the games that you don't ever forget. That's the tension that was building in 2011 in Game 6, the David Freese game. You know, it's— the Cardinals are up against the wall and they're facing elimination and they're down to their final strike, and then Freese hits a 2-run triple with 2 out. And then the Rangers go back on top in the 10th, and then the Cardinals tie it in the 10th, and then Freese wins it in the 11th. That's what makes sports great. And most of the time they can't really capture it in Hollywood. They try, they try to write these scripts, but it's non-sports people writing scripts with non-sports people acting it out. And only a handful of times does it really capture, I think, the beauty of these games. Like, I have yet to really see an unbelievable fictional football movie. For me, baseball, I would— The Natural is one of the most beautiful movies of all time, and, and Redford can actually swing the bat. And, you know, Costner could swing the bat. So, but those are more, you know, Bull Durham was unbelievable, and it works kind of because Costner's great. Tim Robbins doesn't look like he can throw 100 miles an hour, but, uh, you know, the other one is Field of Dreams. This kind of mystical element of a baseball field in the middle of a cornfield and him having a catch with his dad. I mean, if you watch that and you don't get emotional, I mean, I bawl crying, but just a little choked up, I think something's turned off inside of you. So yeah, those games are rare, but when you get 'em, man, there's just nothing like it. And sports is, It's the beauty of it. You can't script it.

So what's your favorite broadcast moment that you've had yourself?

It depends. You know, I think as far as my career is concerned, it would be that first World Series in the Bronx in New York, proclaiming the Yankees champions of baseball at 27 and never having really— I never— my dreams never got bigger than, oh my God, someday I'm going to do the St. Louis Cardinals. But I was doing a nationally televised game, and so that's the World Series. What, uh, Super Bowls are unbelievable, doing the first overtime Super Bowl. But though, as far as being there and feeling the emotion, I have said it before, I'll say it again, Game 6 of the 2011 World Series, and a St. Louis kid, David Freese, winning it for the Cardinals, and then them winning Game 7. I, I just think that's I can remember specific moments, how I felt at the time. And it was like I got the professional part of it. Just the emotional part of it is what made it special for me. So I think it's that, no doubt.

Who's the funniest athlete you've ever been around?

Hockey guys. Doug Waite, who played here in St. Louis for a handful of years toward the back end of his career, then won a Stanley Cup with Carolina but was injured in the Stanley Cup Final. Is one of the most naturally funny guys. Terry Francona in Major League Baseball, uh, he was an outfielder, first baseman on the first minor league team I did when I was 19 in Louisville, and he has since gone on to win multiple world championships with, uh, the Boston Red Sox as their manager. Now he's in Cleveland. Bob Euker, who was, uh, one of Johnny Carson's favorite guests of all. I mean, this is a real baseball player who basically went out on The Tonight Show and did comedy. It had nothing to do really with baseball. His timing was so good that he could have been Rickles, Seinfeld, whoever. That's how funny, genuinely funny the guy was and is, whatever he is now, 85 years old, or I don't even know. So there are a lot of funny people. I think senses of humor are developed. Because of the inordinate amount of time that these people spend together. And you have the kings of the clubhouse, the kings of the locker room, the kings of the bus, and people get on, you can't wait to listen to them. And I used to sit there as a kid and listen to Dave LaPointe of the '82 Cardinals and different guys just ragging on each other, but it was like really funny, clever stuff. So, uh, those are my answers, but I think the king of it has got to be Uecker, who was great in the movie Major League. As the broadcaster, the just a bit outside guy, Miller Lite commercials, and then The Tonight Show. I mean, there was no bigger stage than that.

Okay, so you have a podcast and it's called Daddy Issues, which I think is also a funny title. Can you talk for a second about why do the podcast, how you chose your co-host and what you try to do with it? And let me just say before you answer, One of my favorite guests, I haven't listened to every episode, but I listened to quite a few. One of my favorite guests is Charles Barkley. And he seems, you wanna talk about a guy who seems free. Free to speak his mind and free to be funny. I mean, he just, there's something really, I remember I felt good after I listened to that episode.

I think it's great therapy for anybody in these times just to listen to that episode. I've just always been a fan of his. And you're right. I think in this day and age, everybody's so guarded and rightly so. I mean, you cannot, if you go out there half cocked and just start throwing out opinions, you're going to find yourself eventually unemployed. But Barkley just is one of those guys that can say and do as he pleases and whatever the fallout is. So what? To go back to what we talked about earlier. But Oliver's just a good guy and not really a typical pairing for me. You know, he's kind of the wild guy and I'm the straight-laced guy. We're kind of the odd couple. And I'm a hand— I'm— he's 43, I'm 51. I'm from the Midwest, he grew up in LA. He's gone through life as Kate Hudson's older brother, uh, Goldie Hawn's son, Kurt Russell's stepson, now Wyatt Russell's, uh, half or stepbrother, and he carries all that around with him. And yet if you talk to anybody in his family— Kate, Goldie, Kurt— they'll all tell you the guy they want to be around the most is Oliver because he's the most enjoyable and the funniest. Um, so I love the dynamic that we have together. And daddy issues, if I have any, it's that I followed my dad into the business. And for the rest of my life, especially for people in St. Louis, I'll go through it as Jack Buck's son. And that, thank God we were as close as we were. That would drive me nuts if weren't, but it doesn't. I love it. But those are probably trying to live up to this now, you know, departed icon is intimidating at times. So that's why, and that's why he and I are together. And why do I do it? It's because I like the idea of generating programming, like I'm sure you do. Matt. I mean, you're sitting there and you have to create and you have to form an interview and there's got to be a beginning, middle, and ending. And normally when people hear me, my words are driven by the action that's happening on the field. I'm not creating any of that. I mean, I'm creating what I say, but I'm not instigating it. And I like being the instigator and somebody to try to form something. And that's why I do it. And I like Oliver, he drives me nuts because he's unreliable and he's always late for everything, uh, but that's kind of part of the dynamic.

You guys cover so many wild topics. I mean, if the book was transparent and vulnerable, I feel like on the podcast there are almost no rules. It is wide open, and at least that's been my reaction. And you want to talk about another step towards freedom and not worrying so much about being perfect or politically correct.

Or unemployment. Yeah.

No, I had that thought too.

It's a step toward freedom or unemployment. Yeah, I haven't said anything yet that's put me on any list, but I'm sure if you wanted to nitpick some of the stuff that comes out of my mouth, but I'm usually pretty careful to get up to the edge and then kind of come back. Oliver has no filter, but he'll be the first to tell you, like, he's got nothing to protect. I, I'm in a different category. So Fox is good like that, you know.

I—

Fox knows that I do everything I can. I've never said no to anything they've ever asked me to do. As you said in the introduction, bass fishing, I should have said no when they asked me to do that. It was live and horrible, but I was bad. But they also trust me, and I think that, that they know that I'm not going to embarrass them But again, I mean, it's me and I think they kind of like me doing stuff that separates me from the other guys who do what I do at the network level. And when I make a mistake, they'll either get rid of me or tell me to knock it off. And I hope it's the latter, not the get rid of me thing.

There's a money element to my podcast and to what my firm does. And in the book, you talk a little bit about money observations, watching your dad at a restaurant you guys would go to, he'd always be counting his his net worth.

Yeah.

What money lessons have you learned either from him or others that still you sort of carry on, either good or bad habits?

Yeah, I have bad habits. I'm probably the perfect client for any firm such as yours because I am not a micromanager. I take the long view and I'm with whatever I put money into. I'm not following it minute by minute. I'm more a year-by-year guy. And I think for the most part, that suited me well. I probably should have a better handle on what's going on around me financially. My dad was very good at that. Like you said, you know, he came from— first of all, I think if you grew up in the Depression as he did, you have a different sense of, you know, what money really is. And when you have it, I think you can go one of two ways. You can just try to hoard it Or as he lived his life, he was giving it out left and right. And if ever he had money, he was just handing it away. That's probably why it took him a longer amount of time to get to 7 figures of net worth. Now, he was counting like his leased car and, you know, the gas that was inside the gas tank as part of his net worth. But he finally got there as a kid who came from less than zero. To a self-made guy. I, I think I'm probably guilty of just kind of letting it ride. And, and I like to take risk. I, I like to take a swing every once in a while. And, and I like, instead of just following the market, I like putting money into something I can touch. I like putting money into companies that I believe in, or, you know, something that finds a niche And it's either going to take off or it isn't, but you have to be willing to lose money, I think, to make money. If you're constantly just hanging on for dear life, I feel like it makes you way too conservative. So I, I'm probably on the wrong side of the midpoint, but I— if I see something and I go, yeah, I get that, and I, I feel like that has value. It has value to me, therefore it'll have value to someone else, therefore I'll put money in it and see if it takes off. That's the kind of stuff I like to put money behind, for right or wrong. And I think it served me pretty well. And again, you have to be willing to go, okay, that money's gone, you know. If I invest, that's gone, you know. It's still living over here, and maybe someday it's going to knock on my door and go, hey, remember me? This really took off. And, and that's, that's how I kind of like to look live financially.

Warren Buffett has a great quote, which we have on some stationery, which says, someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago. And I think part of my podcast is about getting into people's ears and secretly trying to encourage patience and discipline. Can you think of a story or example from your life where you were patient or disciplined or delayed gratification and it paid off in a major way?

Yeah, I think, first of all, I think I'm a really patient person for purposes of this conversation. Now, can I lose my temper in my day-to-day, minute-to-minute with my 2-year-olds or with my, you know, if I can't open something or if I'm freaking out on my computer because I'm just dumb and I can't log into your podcast? Yeah, I can get frustrated, but I think I'm pretty good about looking at the big picture. So I would go back to losing my voice and trusting what doctors said. And even though you have that voice in your head the entire time, like the negative voice going, this is over, it's been fun, but this is over, or you can't really do it like you used to, you know, that, that voice, you have to go, shut up, I'm going to do this. And it may not be perfect, but I could feel myself getting better internally. You couldn't hear it. It didn't even show up on exams, but I was like, I just know I'm getting better. And eventually it paid off and it drove me to church more. It drove me to really getting advice from people that I wouldn't typically talk to. And it kind of opened my world up a little bit. And it paid off because I went from taking for granted what I had in my voice to being brought to my knees thinking it was all over, to coming out the other end and appreciating everything by a factor of 10 or more after that and just enjoying what I do. You know, people have talked about trials and going through them, and man, I'm glad I went through that. You're like, no, you— that's BS. You're not glad. I am so glad I went through that because it It really forced me to appreciate all that I have and a gift that I've been given and something I've tried to work on. So that's my answer. I'm sure I could think of other examples, but it's the one that sits in the front of my mind because every time I sit down to do a game, 2011 and not having a voice is front and center. And I, I still have to quiet that negative voice in my head when I'm doing anything.

The way your book ended, where you talk about climbing a mountain with your daughter and how she can't go on and says, Dad, you got to go ahead. And you sort of have this epiphany or realization that it's okay for you to be happy and your kids really want you to be happy. I really like the way you wrapped everything up in Lucky Bastard. And I thought it was just a really poignant moment and a great way to tie it all together. And I feel like the story you just shared about the hair issue, I mean, we did— we glossed over in the beginning, but you endured so many procedures and ultimately had one that didn't go right and did almost cost you your career. And so that example of going through this experience that ultimately leads you to some bigger lesson. I think sometimes as a writer, we like in my office wrote, the obstacle sometimes is the way, or there's the lesson in it. So it's really cool. And just, yeah, so great to talk with you. And I love this side of you that you're sharing. I mean, I just think it takes huge guts to do it, because you could have just stayed in the safe lane. I think of all the broadcasters, or people, other people I know, whose voices are familiar and famous and call big events. I haven't seen anyone else doing what you're doing. So good for you for whatever helped you find the courage to make some brave choices and put yourself out there. Because I'll say this to you, I've heard you talk on other deals where you say, if you read the comments on social media, it's really a downer. I've read some comments on social media about things you've shared where you've been open or vulnerable about things and people are like, man, I love this side of Joe Buck. I love this side.

Yeah.

And so I, I'm in that camp.

Yeah, well, thank you. And I appreciate you saying that because I guess it's intentional, but it's also kind of the only way I know to be anymore. I think when I made the decision, I talked to my therapist about it and she's like, I think it'd be great. I think it'd be great for you to do. And when I came up with the first manuscript, I had my sister read it. She's like, oh, Joe, why? Why do you want to do this? Why do you want to put this all out there? And I said, I'm sorry, you don't get it. And now my sister's probably my closest other than my children and my wife, but it's different. I have all this shared history with my sister and I really trust her opinion, but I had to quiet her too. I was like, look, you're not going to get why I need to do this. Just trust me, I need to do this. And, you know, I felt like everybody has an opinion. But it's an uninformed opinion, and that gets frustrating. And so eventually I was either gonna punt the whole thing and just do something else, be a shepherd somewhere, or I was gonna open myself up and go, here you go, this is, this is who I am. You don't like me because you think I don't like the Cubs. You don't think I don't like the Patriots. I couldn't care less about the Cubs or the Patriots. That's not what gets me up in the morning. My kids get me up in the morning. The drive to be good my work, the drive to live up to a Hall of Famer in my own house and the example he set forth, the drive to help people, the drive to— I don't care who wins the game. That's not— I have nothing to do with that. All I can do is the best job I can do. You're the fan. You're the one that wants it all kind of sounding your way. And if you think you know me, you don't. Here's what I'm like. And that's why I did it. And that's why I do these things. That's why I have my own podcast. And that's what I'll continue to do until the world's had enough. And then I'll go just be happy somewhere.

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for sharing some of your stories with us. I would encourage people to read your book for sure. I know it's, you know, 2016 is when it came out, but it is awesome. Really great job.

Thank you.

And, um, I love Daddy Issues. I think, I think it's Awesome. I'm a subscriber.

Thanks.

And I love the variety of people you've had on there. I feel like you do. The other day I was listening to an episode and Oliver was like, I want to tell you about my dream, and you were like, nope, I don't want to hear it. Yeah, just like I don't want to hear what club somebody hit on the par 3. I don't want to hear about you.

Yeah, nobody cares. Nobody cares. My wife, every day— I, I personally, I don't sleep deep enough to like be able to get up and recall every moment of every dream. My wife can tell you a dream she had 2 nights ago and I'm like She's like, oh my God, I gotta tell you about this dream I had. I don't care. I don't care. And sometimes I get in trouble for dreams she has that I'm involved in doing something that I shouldn't be doing. I'm like, that came out of your head. I didn't do it. I was just next to you. So I don't care. I don't care about anybody's dreams.

Well, I could talk to you for 4 hours, but I'm sure you have to get ready. What is the next thing you're gonna get ready for? What are you gonna call next?

I just found out I've got Cubs-Brewers next Thursday, which I'll be doing from the Fox Sports Midwest studios in downtown St. Louis. My partner John Smoltz will be in a studio in Atlanta. Our producer and director will be in LA, and the game is— I don't even know at this point. It's either in Chicago or Milwaukee, but it doesn't matter because I'm going to be 20 minutes from my house.

How weird.

It is weird.

Well, as they say, we'll get through this. And I want you to know this, Joe, and I'm saying this in the specific order, you're the best I've ever heard, and your dad was pretty good too.

Ah, thank you very much. Thank you, Matt. I've enjoyed this. I don't get a chance to do podcasts that I enjoy being on as much as I have this one. So thanks for having me on, great job.

No, no, it's my pleasure. All right. Hey, oh, one last question. One meal, where would you go to eat?

Hmm, I would go—

I want you to say the place that you took Michelle to eat when you took her to St. Louis that you talk about in the book.

Yeah, I would say, that was gonna be my answer. I would always defer to Paul Manos.

Yes!

'Cause I've never had a bad meal there. And the only thing, you can give me a shoe, but if it comes out smoking hot, I'll probably eat it and enjoy it. Everything at Paul Manos is smoking hot. So yeah, they get my vote every time.

Good. Me too. Good way to end.

Yes.

All right. Thanks, Joe. Have a great weekend.

All right, Matt. Thanks, buddy.

See ya. Bye. In Joe Buck's book, Lucky Bastard, he talks about money lessons he learned from his dad. What lessons around money What lessons about money did you learn from your parents? Please note, the information shared in this podcast is not intended as advice. The intent is to share meaningful experiences. I am likely not your advisor, nor wealth manager, nor financial planner, and my opinions are my own and not necessarily shared by Hill Investment Group. Investing involves risk. Consult a professional before implementing an investment strategy. Thank you.