Building 3 Multi-Million £££ Property Companies at 25 - Tyler Newman | Midnight Podcast Episode 44

Best way to do it to sell any property is how I've sold all of my properties in the past. I genuinely believe this with like the most conviction in my body is you advertise a property for sale, like 10 to 15% below the market value and then you just generate so much interest and you create a competitive environment amongst buyers. You work the offers up and then suddenly you can have 3, 4, 5 offers on a table, all from different buyers. One might be cash, one might be a chain, one might need a mortgage, but it's a higher amount. But then you've got options and you can just go with whatever the best offer is. And then if the deal falls out of bed, you've got other buyers, you can go straight back to.

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I mean, time has flown by. I remember doing that first pod like it was yesterday.

And I was living with a different person, probably about two stone heavier and didn't even know what my next business was gonna be.

You were, you were a different person. Do you think completely, like, mentally, physically, emotionally?

Why did no one tell me I was getting fat?

Because you weren't fat, you were just looking.

Yeah, I wasn't ever fat, but I.

Look back, just the 7% body fat that you are now.

Yeah, it's actually mad looking back. To be fair, time is fucking weird.

It's in the face as well that you see it most with you maybe when you.

Yeah, I've noticed that hold a lot.

Fat in your face.

It's probably all that fucking. All that mewing and chewing and bone smashing, bro. Bullshit from Twitter.

It's worked.

It definitely does something. What's going on with you? You've hibernated the past few months. I see you not hibernating, but you're definitely fucking grinding more.

Definitely more of a quite a transitional phase, I think, in my career and it feels like there's not a lot that's actually happened, but in the background there is. And because obviously I'm in the real estate game, a lot of the. The bigger deals and the stuff that we're working on now, there's such. It's such long time horizons. There's such long lead in times. So it can look like from months and months and months and months, nothing's happening on the surface, but obviously behind the scenes you're squabbling away, inching closer. So I mean, the main things in terms of what's happened in the last year is. Well, the main one is launched a new brand, Luxury Property Partners. And I'm sure we can dive into that. Um, that was launched, I want to say, maybe two months ago now and going really well. And that's kind of a big opportunity that I'm pursuing. And then just on the property development stuff, we're. We're about to start construction on a site in Cambridge here that we agreed, like last year. But again, it's one of these things where on the surface probably looks like nothing's changed, but in the background, obviously.

We'Ve been like redesigning the whole same outfit still.

Same outfit still. But yeah, I mean, just been. Yeah, just same old property deals.

You're the only close friend. I don't even know what the fuck you actually do, because I'm not in property. So you have Luxury Property Partners and then you have the education. Education business. So there's two things.

Yeah, well. Well, so essentially kind of like three. Three kind of separate entities. So I've got my property business, Newman Rose, which is a brand that we use to kind of develop the sites that working on. So, I mean, just at the minute we're about to start construction on a site to build 17 units in Cambridgeshire, that's like 12 of them are nice big detached homes. Total value of the site be like eight and a half to nine million once it's built. And then we're taking another two sites through planning site, getting the planning permission on it. Once we've got the planning permission, obviously we'll start construction again. That's just all stuff that happens behind the scenes that you can't share on social media for whatever reason. NDAs, and it's just. They're just drawings and paperwork that you file with the council and some land that's got nothing on it. So that's Newman Rose. We then got an education business and Newman Rose is my business partner, Rosie, who is my amazing business partner, absolute wizard when it comes to property development. Like, just the knowledge that she has is like, ridiculous, especially for her age. And then we also have a property education business primarily focused on teaching property development. Rosie being kind of the head coach that teaches the main things like construction, planning, strategy, acquisition. I coach a little bit on the finance side of things and operations because that's kind of where my strengths lie in the raising finance, structuring the finance for the acquisition, and that's that education business serves two purposes. One, cash flow, because it is, it's. It's earned income, it's active income. It's, you know, we're, we're selling a. Essentially like coaching, helping people get a specific result. And then it also allows us to build an audience. And then one of the ways we leverage our audience is we raise money from people that want to work with us, invest with us, the fund, a lot of our property deals. So, yeah, it's, it's that. And then luxury property partners is separate. Rosie's not involved in that. That's with another business partner, Damien, who's an incredible agent. And then also my sister's involved as well. So it's kind of like a family thing that's attached to it.

How do you manage three businesses? Or. Because they're all in the same realm, do you kind of just view it as one thing with three entities?

Definitely.

They all link.

They all link. But it's also. I am at a point where I'm kind of starting to feel the, the constraints of the limited bandwidth that I have in terms of time and focus. But the answer is really just having kind of great business partners and great team. So with property development business, Rosie's incredible with that We've got not just her, but kind of a great team of professionals and contractors that we employ to kind of do a lot of the hard work. The education business, again, got a great team on that. So I'm definitely. And then with Luxury Property Partners, Damian, business partner, the agents, we've got ridiculous talent. It's my role is really build the team that can build the business now. Like I've built the kind of foundations of all the businesses and now it's just I've got to be able to manage the team, hire the right talent and just coordinate rather than be on the laptop grinding. It's just a lot of like zoom calls and managing people.

If you have to pick one, which one would you pick? You have to sack two of them. Right now he's thinking, who's gonna offend the least?

No. So that is a good question. And, and like all these, I'm like so aware of the fact that in a perfect world and there's a part of me that's jealous of people like yourself that literally just have one business, one thing, one.

Well, I mean even me though, I'm like fucking trying to take the pod more seriously. So that feels like a business in itself.

True.

I've got this pool party thing I want to do and then Fred's telling me, don't fucking do that cunt. Focus on your brand.

Yeah, I mean, but there is like a, there's like a ten year plan behind all of these businesses and they all kind of form different pieces of the puzzle that make up that ten year plan. Luxury Property Partners is a brand that I want to get in and out of in the next five to five, six years. Build to exit. I don't plan on taking sort of any distributions or income from that. Just of course I'll take some. But the goal is to have a liquidity event in, in five years time and we've got a really clear plan and proof of concept on how we can do that. And so for me that's like a way to build a certain level of wealth over that. But then like longer term time horizons. I can still see myself playing the property investment development game at 50 years old in 30 years time because it's just that is a long term play. And for me now it's like I want to work with great people, great partners, great investors. I'm not so fussed about how much I can make, it's more about how much I can learn. And yeah, I'm just willing to play the long term game with it and the kind of wealth that you can compound over decades and decades means that hopefully in 30 years time there's some nice fruits of the labor.

Yeah, definitely. Which business makes more money now and in the future? Or they, like you said, have different purposes, one being cash flow.

So, so the, the education business makes great cash flow, but there's like no enterprise value. Maybe we could, if we wanted to build it as an asset for enterprise value, we could and kind of pivot it away from personal brands, remove ourselves, replace ourselves with other coaches. But even then like the opportunity of that isn't that significant. It might, it probably won't even. It's just the market isn't there for it to be something where you can have a huge exit and make, you know, a decent sum with. So that makes great cash flow. But it's the property developments that over the next 18 months of profit that they will spit out will completely outsize the, the education business. And then luxury property partners is like at the minute there is revenue but because of the business model and I don't know how much we'll dive into that. It's, it's very delayed. So like if we hire a new agent now that operates under the brand, it's going to be six months before they're generating like any revenue for us and probably 12 to 24 months before they're generating like the revenue would expect. So yeah, they all make money in different ways. But like as, as you know, like cash. You don't get wealthy from cash flow or income or dividends or salary. It's, it's building something that has, it's building an asset either as equity in a business or assets in terms of investment portfolio of. That's real estate or public equities, whatever.

Yeah, it's very true. I guess that's why. Yeah, I kind of view the POD as like a cash flow business.

Yeah.

Because it is and cash flow to have fun. Right. But it was. Yeah, but it also plays into each other. Like do you think you having like that personal brand in that space and I feel like you push that less now.

Yeah, I could push it a lot.

More because like even with your Instagram disabled you didn't. Weren't really bothered for a while.

No.

But has that helped like meet business partners and shit? Because I always say, oh, the pod's really been great for networking for me because now I'm starting to build this like mini cult and like people that invested in my business have been on the pod. And that was when I met Them and all this sort of shit. Obviously you're kind of trying to be the UK grand car zone cardone in my mind.

I wouldn't, yeah, I wouldn't say that.

But like a mini version.

Social media is just like networking on steroids. And the for luxury property partners that business model is. Is led by recruitment. The more agents we can recruit operate under that brand that comes from social media. Those, those recruitment leads, those people that want to work with us because they see what we do on social media, they see the types of property that we deal with, they see the results we can get for our clients and yeah, they want to come work for us, our investors. I mean we've raised for our property deals well into the seven figures now and all but one investor and that one investor only put in 50k. All the other investors we never met prior to them investing. It was all just the know like and trust that's built up from creating content and personal brand and, and watching our YouTube and attending webinars and podcasts.

So that is mad.

It is nuts.

Things have changed.

It's part of what we teach as well in, in whenever anyone asks for advice on like how to get started on property is like there are kind of a few main things you need to be doing. One, looking for deals and two, speaking to investors and three, just creating content because with a personal brand you can raise more money from investors and you can find more deals because like my off market, my off market, like if I want to look at off market deals then I get more deals sent to me just because a personal brand like two of the deals we were buying right now just came to us purely from social media. The investors came from social media. It's like nuts.

It's crazy. The luxury property partners business then on that because there's competition in that area I guess which maybe we'll speak about. I won't.

Yes.

And the model on that. Could anyone watching or even include myself start a business like that? Or is that you need. It's highly regulated, whatever. Like what is the model first and how would you one go about starting a business? Is it just knowledge that's needed or is it so a lot of other shit? Because some of the properties are mad that I've seen listed.

Okay so like completely like pre frame this for background for those that maybe might be listening for the first time. So my, my family business is a state agency. Grown up like in a state agency. My first job was an estate agent. And like when you're just immersed in an Industry from before. You can even, like, walk. You just obviously, you know, you pick it up and you're working as an agent. I talked about it on the last podcast, but there was a point in my career was like, okay, like, I want to move away. As soon as I was like, 16, 17, I was like, what I don't want to be doing is working in the industry that my family's grown up. I want to do my own thing, or I take say, that of property investing, property development, separate to a stage. I've built up something that built up something there. So I can. Yeah, so I can, like, prove to myself, like, I can. I can do something on my own, which I've done. And I mean. I mean, owe everything to. My parents had most amazing upbringing, support the values that they taught me. Just incredible. And yeah, 100% wouldn't be who I am or I am without them, but. And so my dad's always been, I'll say, like, successful in what he does. Depends how you measure success. But in. In the Midlands, in Warwickshire, growing a business there. And then I've seen kind of what other people around me have done in the industry, and the opportunity arose. Last year, in 2021, in, like November, I was out in Dubai. I was at my family dinner table. We're all in. My sister was living out in Dubai at the time. My parents had gone out to visit. I was flying out to go see them, and I was saying to my dad, like, you need to go national with this. You need to, like, let's think bigger, go bigger. And I was just like, you know, if you're not gonna do it, I'll do it, or we'll do it. And my sister. And we said, I'll do it. And I came up with the name of the company because your sister, for.

Context, watching, she has the Matt and Summer YouTube channel.

Yeah. So her and her boyfriend have like 300,000 subscribers on YouTube. Huge social media following. So I thought they could bring a lot of value to this.

Literally everyone's in property in this family. Yeah, it's like the perfect triangle.

Yes. Like the. Yeah. So essentially, it's an estate agency business and we, as luxury property partners, essentially provide the opportunity for other agents to go out and listen, sell houses, earn a significant, significantly higher income than a traditional estate agency. So to put into context, and there's many reasons why traditional estate agency is broken and this new model fixes it. But a traditional high street agent, corporate agent, they'll have an office on the high street. The agents are working, they will go out, sell a house, they'll charge 1% to sell the house and then from that, sell a 200,000 pound house, for example, they'll get a 2,000 pound fee and then the agent that's done that will then get like 15% of their commission. So make like £300 for selling one house and one, they're charging too low of a fee. In the UK, you know, the average fee that estate agents charge is like 1%, whereas in the US and Australia it's like 6%.

Jesus.

And there's many reasons for that. And so the opportunity for agents that work in a traditional model isn't great. Like the maximum they might be able to earn is 50, 60,000 pounds per year. If they're like really grinding six days a week, they're top 1%. And then maybe more in London, if, you know, could go into the early six figures, but that's when they're selling like 5, 6, 7, 10 million pound property. But the new model and how it works in the US and Australia is.

Estate agents receive like, like selling Sunset, all those products.

Yeah, like selling Sunset, they receive a high percentage, a significant percentage of the fee. So luxury property partners, an example on a 2 million pound house, will charge 2 1/2% to sell the property, which is like a 50,000 pound fee. And then the agent that's gone out put the property on the market, executed on the marketing strategy, found a buyer, negotiated the offer, progressed it through to an exchange of contracts and completion, they received 50% of that fee income. So they'll make £25,000 for selling that one property.

Yeah.

And so then suddenly the earning potential for these agents is, you know, some will earn 150,000 a year, some will earn 250, some will earn 500k. It won't be long before there's agents. Like it's normal for agents to earn seven figures in a year. And when there's an opportunity like that, suddenly you can attract and retain much better talent. So one of the reasons traditional estate agencies broken is because the opportunity really isn't that great. When someone is top talent and they want to progress to the next level, they want to earn more money, they have to leave the industry and go work in recruitment or B2B sales or something. And so you just find that there isn't top talent that stays within the industry. Now with this new model of agency where they can earn, you know, it's a level 10 opportunity, suddenly level 10 talent is attracted to either come and work in the industry that we have people coming from working for us that are previous business owners that might have made, you know, a bit of money in business but then they just know they'll learn more. Kind of being a self employed agents, they're self employed, they're contracted to Luxury Property Partners and essentially what they get from us is they just get like I say the, the platform, if you were to sell it, the training, the back end support is massive and so they can just do what they enjoy doing which is going out speaking to sellers, marketing properties.

So if you have one property though, like how do you attribute the sale to a certain agent? Or is it, is it not like a bidding, is it not?

No, so, so one agent will just have their own client base, they'll deal with their own properties. So yeah, they just deal with their one client and it's not, it's not like an agent will go out, put it on the market, then any agent can sell it. It's just if there's a seller, a client that's selling a 10 million pound house and they instruct John to sell the house. John at Luxury Property Partners, John deals with all leads, all negotiations, everything because that, that sellers instructed John to sell.

And how did you get the listings in the first place, especially as a new brand? Is that his reputational thing? Like I would just associate, I don't know. The best listings go to Savills.

So yeah, so they obviously like.

And who's making that decision anyway? Is it, is it the seller of the house?

The seller will make the decision, who they call out. And so like Savills and Knight Frank have built up a huge amount of brand awareness over the last decades and they have been traditionally the go to. But actually Savill's a night Frank now like residential sales is actually quite only a small portion of their overall business and I don't think they actually allocate a lot of resources and training to anymore. They just literally live off the brand reputation that they've built. But the first is social media. So this new wave of agents that are killing it, like they just crush it on social media, they generate all the leads from social media. The second way is you can go out and literally knock on doors. That's how I used to start, that's how most people start. So they'll literally go out, they'll go to an area, they can print off a list before they can just drive to an area, go on right move, click current location and see what properties are for sale. In our case above A million pounds. Go knock on the door and say, like, hey, I'm an agent. Obviously you don't want to go straight for the show. Say like, can I help you? I see you're moving, maybe I can help you find a property. By the way, how are you going on selling yours? Maybe the first time around they won't invite you in. Second, third time, fourth time around, they're going to be like, you know what? Yeah, we're sick of our agent, let's have a conversation. You get in the door that way. A third way is through kind of like direct mail. So one thing our agents can do, and this is something we provide for them, is they can create like a direct mail card or an A4 letter that they can write. And we can literally send that letter to any properties that are for sale within a certain area, Any properties that are kind of G and H, council tax bans, we know we're in the price bracket, we want to deal with that. Maybe haven't sold in the last eight years. And the letter can say anything, can just say, hey, look, just want to introduce myself, I'm in the area. If you ever think of selling, let me know. If you want to find out what your property's worth, let me know. And then the other way is just buy a work. So you get one listing. Let's say it's a 2 million pound house. You one of the best marketing strategies for that property is let's say the Property is worth two and a half million. You advertise it aggressively, it offers over 2 million, you get loads of attention, loads of leads, people think, wow, that's good value. You do an open house like four weeks later, after a four week marketing strategy where just one Saturday you've opened the house up, you've got music playing, you've got a chef that's cooked some canapes and you just have people come and view the property and those people have conversations with him and you say, hey, look, like, thanks for coming along, by the way. What's the situation with your property? Do you need help selling it? And just by like showing that you've got great results and at the open house, there's going to be people that are trying to sell their property, haven't had a viewing for two months, and then they see that you've managed to get 20 people around to view this property in the space of four weeks, they're going to be pretty impressed and think, hey, like, say it's my property. Like, hey, Tyler, can you come do the Same for us. So there's loads of ways, I mean I can do a full two hour training session on that.

That 15 million pound listing, it was on YouTube. How did that come about?

Social media.

Funnily enough, they DMD or what?

So they. So Damien, my business partner, I've done a couple videos today on YouTube, kind of introducing him and his background. He's a great example because he, he's only been an agent selling property for 18 months, maybe coming up to two years now. Previously he just bought an Aventador. So he's originally from the uk, he lived in the US for eight years, had a construction business out there which was a multi seven figure business. Did really well, came back to the uk, saw in the us, kind of, you know, in the US to be a real estate agent they call it is quite a respected profession. Came to the uk, found the self employed model where it's like a good opportunity to earn good income and just went balls to the wall. Absolutely sent it, had amazing results. And so he's who we've launched the business with. So that 15 million pound listing, that was the day we launched Damien. I did like a big launch video and then someone saw the launch video and DM and Damien said, hey look, I've got this 15, 20 million pound house want to sell, do you want to come around, sell it? So yeah, and to put it like perspective, that property, if it sells for 20 million, the evidence suggests the market value of the house is between 15 and 20, depending on how you judge it. At the end of the day it's down to the market to decide. If that house sells for 20 million, the fee that the sellers will pay is £500,000. And so the listing agent will receive half of that £250,000.

We're selling one property, the 2.5% fee, is it? Yeah, yeah. And is that, is that high or not? Is that standard?

It's, it is high. And so one of the other reasons estate agency is broken in the UK is agents previously and still do. It's very much like commodity based pricing. So it's like which agents prepared to do it for the cheapest. So suddenly it's like, oh well, this guy's going to sell your house for 1%. Mr. And Mrs. Seller, I'll do it for 0.9%, 0.8%. But for like a service based business, people don't want to go for the cheapest, they want to go for the best. And the best agents that really understand the game, they understand that these kind of clients, they want to pay for value and if you can get 5 million above the asking price, they're happy to pay it. And so it's all about what's the net figure in the seller's back pocket after the sale is done and what.

Would be the process for him to sell that house then? Would he have a black book of leads already?

No. So any agent that has a book is Rogan, you should stay away. Estate agents, the agent representing a property, they are acting in the best interest of the seller and that often means getting them the best price in the shortest amount of time. So again, this is like a two hour presentation you do to a seller, but in 30 seconds is it comes down to presenting the profit property as best you can. And that's with one if it needs to be staged properly, like putting in new furniture, painting walls, whatever, get the property looking the best you can within a reasonable budget. Then getting amazing video done, amazing photography done, amazing brochures done, like really presenting and showing the property in its best possible light. The next step is then just getting maximum exposure for it. Like the more eyeballs you can have something that's for sale, the more competition you're going to create. And that's, that's the goal. You want to create competition amongst buyers because that's when you can drive the price up and have people bidding against each other. So what a lot of agents will do is I'll just stick it on rightmove and Zoopla and wait for the phone to ring. But the reality is at that price point, actually the majority of buyers aren't actively looking on the portals because if someone's buying a 15, 20 million pound house, right, they, they might really live in that area, they might really live in that town, that village and they, and they love that town and village and they got no reason to move. They've got the local pub, which they know everyone, they know all the neighbors, they want to move, but they've never had a good enough incentive to sell their current property or move elsewhere. And so these people, what you need to do is obviously need to make them aware the property is for sale. One of the ways you do that is social media and, and put some, some money behind it and spend obviously targeting that local area. The other thing is kind of like direct mail cards. So we'll do an open house invitation and we'll invite all the properties in the local area to the open house or make them aware the property is for sale. What you find is these people, they Say, oh yeah, you know, we'll come along, we'll have a look, you know, we know and love the area and suddenly now we've got a reason that we might want to move or they might know somebody. So they're the main ways. And the third thing is just getting the price right because you can do all the marketing in the world. If you've priced the property too high, no one's going to be interested. And a lot of people make the mistake of thinking, you know, what if I want to sell it for. If I want to sell a house for 5 million, I'll put it on at 6 because people are going to chip me down on the offers and try and negotiate me down, which they will. But the problem is when you overprice a property, it's going to be stale, it's going to sit on the market for ages. And then once people have seen that property has been on the market for six months, hello, mate.

He's allergic to dogs.

My God. He's very friendly, isn't he?

He's overly friendly, he's poisoned you.

Once people see the property's been on the market for six months, they're going to think, why is it not sold? Why has no one else bought it? And then, and then they're also going to make you a crappy offer and it's going to be self fulfilling, that you're going to get less than what the property is worth. Best way to do it to sell any property is how I sold all of my properties in the past. I genuinely believe this with the most conviction in my body is you advertise a property for sale like 10 to 15% below the market value and then you just generate so much interest and you create a competitive environment amongst buyers. You work the offers up and then suddenly you can have 3, 4, 5 offers on a table, all from different buyers. One might be cash, one might be in a chain, one might need a mortgage, but it's a higher amount. But then you've got options and you can just go with whatever the best offer is. And then if the deal falls out of bed, you've got other buyers you go straight back to. You've got like an abundance.

How long do they typically take to sell? Is it, Is there a correlation between price and taking longer?

Yes and no.

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Yeah, there's the buyer pool. The pool of buyers gets smaller and smaller and smaller the higher the price you go. If you were to launch a property for sale tomorrow, £100 million, the amount of buyers in the entire world at that point is, is slim. But most properties, properties will get the most and the best interest in the first two to three months max have been launched to the market. And so it's important you capitalize on, on that.

I think I asked you this before as well and maybe in the first episode but like I always just go on fucking right moving, looking like ridiculously expensive houses. And I think a few times I've definitely like just put like inquiries in to see if they come back to me.

Yeah.

So like firstly a properties of that level typically pay for in cash or is it because obviously I don't know. I would imagine most properties otherwise are mortgaged that gent, you know in the.

General market at the kind of 10 mil plus price point or even 5 mil plus. Yeah there's, there's definitely certainly a lot more cash buyers because those kind of buyers liquidity event. Yeah and the value of the property in proportion to that net worth is a lot smaller. So someone buying like their first home at £200,000, the chances are and that if they've got help to buy mortgage on it, they've put like the majority of their life savings into that deposit.

Yeah.

At £5 million they might have just sold their business for 50 million quid or 10 million quid or 50 million quid and they want to buy cash. There are, there are still a lot of people that have, that understand obviously the importance of capital allocation and would rather put their money in investments and finance their main residence and. Or they've got great relationships with banks where they can just get cheap debt. So yeah, a lot of high net worth guys.

And if I message Damien as a potential customer, just completely bullshitting. What are the steps to filter people in terms of the funnel? Like people that are actually serious buyers. Because is there a lot of tire kickers in the more luxury area or is that isn't the case?

There is.

You don't even when you go to a car garage, it's the same sort of thing. Like you don't rock up in a nice car. They're not gonna let you test drive a nice car there.

I mean there is, there is that. The first step is always just a verbal conversation to qualify them, you know, what's, what's your situation with the property? What is it you're looking for? And just asking kind of these open questions, qualifying questions. You can, you've been in the game long enough, you can start to get an inkling as to like, okay, who's legit, who's not. But then really it comes down to qualifying the buyers and actually getting like evidence of their ability to purchase. So proof of funds. It's up to the agent whether or not they want to do that. But for the higher value properties then yeah, for sure you don't want to be like, I just to cover for Damien, haven't, I haven't shown clients around a property in like three years. But last Friday I went and did a viewing of the 50 million million pound house to show some clients around. As a second time viewing it, it took four hours to show them around the house. So and not only it took me four hours, it's. The seller had to get one of their team to open God knows how many doors in the property and the stables and the outbuildings and turn all the lights on before the viewing and then turn them all off and knock all those doors after the viewing. It's like a massive process, so you don't want to waste your time as an agent or the seller's time bringing someone around that you haven't properly qualified.

That was your first viewing in three years, and it was on that house. Did you wing it? It was like, a lot of prep.

No, no. To show some around a house is super simple because there isn't much skill in showing someone a property. Because, like, this is the kitchen. This is the kitchen.

Did you know the layout and stuff?

I got there an hour before and familiarized myself, but it was their second time viewing it, so I said, guys, like, you've been here before. I was completely honest. It's like a 4D experience. Is he gonna want me to cuddle him?

Come over here, Opus. Come here, little cunt.

There you go.

Come here. Hey, you got the mushroom spawn space goods puppy in.

No. In that instance, I just said to myself, hey, guys, like, you've been here once before. You know the house, you're here to view it a second time. I'll stay out your way. Like, I'm not gonna. There's nothing worse than when you see.

Code for I don't know what the I'm doing.

I just don't say, look, I'm covering for Damien, and I will. Just, like, if your clients look around a property they potentially want to spend 15 million on, the last thing you want is some estate agent. I don't even. Like, I can't be. If I refer to myself as a state agent. That felt so strange. But, yeah, it's like, lingering around behind you, I was like, I'm gonna give you guys all the space you need. I'll be here. The skill is in kind of pre framing the negotiation that's about to happen after the viewing. So setting their expectations in terms of where the price needs to be, what other interest there is, and handling that conversation. That's where the skill is. Showing someone around a property. Like, anyone can do that. Just opening doors.

And do you think you're close to selling that? Like, how many seriously potential buyers would come for a property like that?

Yeah, yeah, that. That will sell in the next several weeks for sure.

Yeah, yeah. Nice, big, healthy fee. So. So half that goes to the agent, and then half to half.

We retain that within the business, but that would be reinvested into marketing and growing a team and. And whatnot.

So how many agents you got now under that business?

So only. I mean, we're.

And how do you expand that?

So we're five months. No, I say Five months in, we're, we're two months in, we've got five now and hoping to double that by the end of this month, actually, which is kind of the pipeline we've got. But the goal has always been for the first 10. I mean, this is an indication of how early, early on we are in this business. The first 10 is we really want to be very strict with our gatekeeping and who we let in because that first 10 that we hire is going to set the precedent for the, the level of talent, the type of talent, the culture we want to build to want to make sure that first time we hire is right. We've turned a lot of people away. A lot of people applied from kind of other competing businesses. But yeah, the first people hired have either got existing agency experience where they've billed multi six figures in a year at their previous role or they're an existing business owner that's generated at least like multi six figures in revenue. Because if you, if someone's one of those two, that gives us a good enough indication they've got the kind of personality traits and the skills that we can then build on and develop to get them into the best performing agent they can be.

How do you find these people and how many people are also applying, if they are applying per position at the minute?

The strategy is very organic. It's just people that have seen what we're doing on socials, have reached out, they've seen the kind of the launch video and content that we've created explaining the model and the mission we have for the business and word of mouth. At some point, obviously beyond this first 10, once we've trained this 10 and we want to then push to the next level, it's just going to be paid traffic and then recruiters. We'll just have kind of an in house team that are just on LinkedIn and reaching out to people, setting up conversations.

Yeah, sorry, he's gone and grabbed an athletic greens pouch.

The healthiest dog ever.

The fuck is this cunt doing? He just gets weirder every fucking week and you can hear him cheering every episode. How big do you want to take it? You say five years to an exit, it's obviously two months old. How many agents would that be, do you think? At that point?

A minimum of 500 agents.

And how much revenue in like fees? Is that how you look at revenue in a business like that? Is it fees? Gross fees? Is that basically the model?

So for this model, I mean, I don't want to give too much away, but Giveaway for the sake of the.

Most 16 year olds watching steal your model.

Yeah, I mean so for me as the kind of operator behind the scenes it's. I'm not on the front lines, I'm not going out listing, selling property. I'm just more involved in the operations and back end side of things. Two most important metrics are the number of agents and then the revenue per agent per month. So the goal is 500 agents and then I know if the agent is good they can be generating on average about 20,000 pounds per month in fee income. So that might be. They sell one house with a 40 grand fee in a two month period. It might mean they sell one a month with a 20,000 pound fee. So that would be 10 million pounds a month. Which it's just getting to the 500 agents is a hard part. Getting the agents to generate revenue is with the right training and resources and lead gen is, is the easy part.

But so call it 100 million a year in revenue. Like have there been similar businesses in this space that have been acquired or reached that sort of scale?

Because this is a completely new model coming to the UK and I mean I didn't, I didn't come up with this model. It's something actually my old man has been doing a long time but it's definitely within the last since Purple Bricks launched, which I want to say was since Purple Bricks were big maybe like five years ago. That really accelerated the transition to the self employed model. And now there are other brands doing it like Keller Williams Exp, a lot more other kind of boutique agencies as well. So because it's new there hasn't been any significant liquidity events. But you can look over to like the US and the US is always.

Like five years ahead in every industry.

Yeah, 100.

Even like with E Comm, even with.

Real estate and real estate investing and yeah, we're very far behind.

How many people are involved shareholder wise. Have you got investors in LPP as well? No, but you're not just require that.

To their own cash. Yeah.

And do you think the other business, Newman Rose Development business, is that acquirable in the same way or does this one excite you more because it's a more modern opportunity.

So I mean so Newman Rose that that's evolving into. So Newman Rose is like we've got the development arm which is like ground up construction where you acquire land, build from the ground up. But to do that at significant scale it gets significantly more risky. I mean if you look at some of the Most successful real estate investors that are kind of top billionaires, Blackstone guys, the US guys, they all, they all talk about how they hate ground up construction because it's so risky and instead they just buy existing assets that like a good location.

Why is it so risky? Because the build could go wrong.

Yeah, because a lot can go wrong with builds. Cost of materials. You don't secure your exit strategy, which is, you know, you may not get the prices you want to achieve. It could be delays. There's so much bureaucracy with like planning permission and whatnot. You've only got to look at for the, for the bank debt, the cost of finance or the interest rate that they charge for a development loan versus a commercial loan to buy an existing asset. You know, for a development loan you might be paying, I think one of our loan facilities is 9%. Whereas if I wanted to go buy an existing commercial asset right now I could get debt of 4%. So the banks have, the banks have priced the risk and that's, that's the same. It's always been that way. So yeah, it's just inherently more risky. But where, what we want to transition to and what we're in the process of doing is setting up sort of an equity fund where we can buy existing commercial assets. But the difficulty has been compliance, which hopefully we've, we've solved. Which is good.

Yeah. Fucking hell. A lot of this property shit goes over my head probably. I'll never do it.

You will at some point.

How does your day to day look? Now I know you spend a lot of time fucking working with a nice view I might add. I mean wearing the same shit as well. I swear you're going like full Steve Jobs mode or something.

Where's black jeans? Rotate through a few sweatshirts and T shirts throughout the week.

I do the same with shit shirts.

I just wake up around seven, half seven, shower, sit in my desk, work. And then I mean just one thing I do which is kind of probably the most important thing is I don't do any calls or zoom calls before really 12 or at the latest 1pm and so that kind of morning is just where I've got the most energy, the most focus and I can just do the deep work. And then as soon as, yeah, as soon as 12 1pm hits, then I've got calls booked in which is then just takes me until the afternoon, late afternoon and then I train in the gym and then yeah, before I sleep. Tie up any loose ends if you're.

Not doing calls before one, I would imagine that your work is very cool and like people centered.

It's getting more and more. Yeah.

What is that deep work? If it's not calls, what do you spend? 5, 6 hours?

So this is the thing. A lot of it at the minute is just admin paperwork. Like this morning as an example, the banks. One of the bank that we're about to draw down, like a huge development loan on, they just want so much like paperwork and evidence of like bank.

Statements on a personal guarantee with your sole assigned, literally.

And then they want us to. And then finances, finance is the main thing. And then I had to figure out, okay, if we're getting this, this development loan, we're raising this amount of equity just looking at. Yeah. Numbers. Just plugging in what, how much we need to raise from investors.

And do you split your day or week by entity?

No, no, no, no, no.

Like, does it just blend into one?

It blends into one.

Do you try and split it at all?

Luxury property partners? Right now is about 10, 15% of my time right now that will change.

Mmm.

You see, I just. I just.

Where's the other 85%? And how is that split?

Oh, my God. I can put my calendar up if you want. It's just right, so, I mean, right now, if we're talking like these, this. These last couple of weeks, it's just what we're finalizing off. Finalizing a round of investment for investors and such. Moving money around, tying up like, getting answers to questions that they might have asked. Today I had to get. Another thing I had to do today was have a call for an hour, the solicitors to go over a shareholder agreement for some investors and make sure that's right. And it lines up with a previous shareholder agreement for a separate classification of shares of investors in that company. So, yeah, just that kind of admin.

Yeah, I've been doing a lot of admin recently.

It's. And that's like one thing you need to then think, how can you hire someone to replace that work? I. Paying invoices.

Yeah, shit like that.

Paying invoices is something I find myself wasting too much time on at the minute.

You'll always find something to spend more time on it. Like you can outsource or delegate and then think of becoming a fucking big dog. And then there's something else. Yeah, you'll always be that Don sat at the fucking desk, grinding away.

If it's what we love, do you.

Love it or do you love the idea of getting very rich in the process? Because I ask myself this A lot. I think maybe I lied to myself that I love all of it, when actually I just like the idea of a pink color name with stars on my fucking ceiling.

Definitely. Probably early in my 20s, in like late teens, it was 90. Driven by, wanting the outcome. And then once you've had like enjoyed some fruits of your labor, you then realize that actually you just. Otherwise you constantly be chasing the next goal, the next thing, the next car, watch house, whatever you want to buy. And then, yeah, you just kind of have to realize, okay, if I want to play this game for the next 10, 20, 30 years, you've got to love it. So. So yeah, I just, I do only do things now that I generally enjoy doing, which I do.

You got rid of the Lambo?

Yeah.

Was that a coming of age thing where you've realized, probably similar to a lot of people, that that is a fleeting period of joy?

I think everyone's got to go through it. Mean we've all been through it.

You realize that the back pain and fucking parking tickets aren't necessarily worth it.

Long story short, I just found myself complaining about it. And then you kind of catch yourself and you think, why am I complaining about driving what was once my dream car that I dreamt about for many years?

That's the problem with achieving anything though, because you should never meet your heroes. Yeah, in a way. In a material sense.

True.

Because when you get it, like even stupid shit like a fucking new watch or whatever, it's cool for a week, it's cool for a week and then it's just fucking. Then it's just a piece of metal. And then before you always was, you.

Start appreciating it less and then you start getting scratches in it and.

Yeah, this. Yeah. So then it's like, where does the. Where does the long term fulfillment come from? Does it come from, I guess, non material things like people and like beautiful girls?

I don't know the answer.

Or does it come from just fucking the constant pursuit? Because I've been reading a lot of stoicism recently.

Okay, what are your biggest takeaways? I've saw the book somewhere.

Well, yeah, I mean, I've read like I'm reading the Daily Stoic, but I'm not reading it daily. I'm reading it in like 20 days per hour. I don't know. Like, I guess one of my big takeaways is just like the human condition. Like we're built to just fucking work. Whereas when I made that vlog in Mykonos, I was kind of complaining about Being a Mykonos, it wasn't complaining about being Mykonos. It's just that maybe I've got to the point where I should just fucking commit myself to a pursuit or something rather than always trying to run away to light the next place. And then I read a page in another circum book that was about like, you can't run away from like, your demons and shit. And I was like, fucking no. I do that all the time. I think the answer is going to Bali and I'll somehow feel more fulfilled there.

When you do this, you'll be happy. When you do this, you'll feel this way.

And then I read a quote that she being happy is like a terrible human desire. We shouldn't even try and be happy. We should try and have purpose. And I was like, oh, wow. And then I read David Goggins book, but I already read it. But then that cunt, like, seems like a miserable cunt, but he seems fulfilled because his pursuit is just the constant pursuit of, I don't know, just ruining himself.

Yeah.

I mean, through physical endeavors.

I don't think you can optimize for happiness. I think to be happy all of the time, it doesn't make sense because you then be. It would just then be your baseline. I think happiness is like a temporary emotion, as was like set. And. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what the answer is. The way I see it is you just have to have a try and have a mission or a vision that is greater than yourself that you are willing to kind of put yourself through. Painful, but I think that's how we're designed. Is it to just hunt?

Yeah.

In many ways.

Andrew Tate tweeted something and I thought it was like the least misogynistic but most like, true things ever tweeted, I think. And it was like, what was it? It was. If you enjoyed everything, you'd enjoy nothing. It's like very basic, but it's just. Oh, yeah.

Of course, if you had steak. Well, to fair, I have steak most days, but if you to have amazing steak every day, you just appreciate it so much less. And that was why I sold the Lambo, because my rain, I had a Range Rover as well, which was like the daily car, which was comfortable.

You still have that?

No. So that came to the end of its finance term and had the option to give it back. And this is time traveling, problems with it and lights flashing on dashboards, I think.

Right.

Perfect time to hand it back. And it was out of warranty as well. So handed it back. And then you start driving a two seater sports car. That's the. Meant to be optimized to be on a track. And you're driving on bumpy roads in London pretty much every day, even if it's like just two minutes to get to the gym down the road. And then the more you use it, the less you appreciate and you get in and it's uncomfortable and your back's hurting and then it's bumpy and yeah, the more you have something, the less you appreciate it. And then I just, yeah, just wanted to get rid of it and now I just enjoy working.

And then you started getting Rolls Royce Cullinans for free every few months.

Shout out to Rolls Royce PR team.

Yeah, yeah, I definitely want to do an episode in the back, one of those. I'm actually arranging that. Or a V class Lanjet, which apparently would be better because it's basically the same but way bigger and cheaper to rent.

Yeah, well, yeah, you said we should.

We should get one as a group.

I think we should get one.

That'd be a great idea.

What do you think, Jack?

Put a. Put the group chat, put the group chat as that as a custom plate pog. Pursuit of greatness. Right then, fellas, quick one. First official sponsor for the Midnight Pod, Triple Whale. If you want to track your econ metrics properly, all your KPIs or your dashboards or your blended ROAS, all that good shit in an easy to understand dashboard as well as proper post iOS 14 pixel tracking. Know your real numbers because I didn't in the past and I got it very wrong. Nowhere to spend more money, nowhere to spend less money. All the shit that's going to drive your brand forward, it's what I use every day. It's in my new brands, in the past brands. It's what all the guys on the pod running super successful businesses use as well. And it's what you should be using. Triple Whale.com Go click the link below, check it out and use my link. Support the fucking pod. Let's go, boys. Where were we? I've just realized that the fucking pod wasn't actually recording me for like half of it. That's all right, because we've got one ear in shot with the new two Ear Anti two Ear Obsession Brigade.

You gotta leave the whole one ear thing alone.

I'm very ocd. There's always a new ocd and that's, that's the new one.

I think we need the opinions of the audience.

Yeah, fucking leave a comment. If you think my ears are big. Something like that. Where was I? So fucking lambos all that shit.

Stoicism.

Stoicism, yeah. Christ. I genuinely have got to the point in my life now, where is that my dog coughing? Where I'm trying to fucking. It's kind of. I'm trying to figure out what the fuck actually, like, why actually enjoy? Because I like parts of the process of, like, building shit. I mean, I probably have weeks where I fucking hate it all. Like in the past week for some reason. Some weeks I get like super gassed about it, but then I'm like, ah, I get to age. Where it's like, what do people. Like, what do people do on weekends? They're like, what am I meant to do on weekends? Because I don't want to fucking go out anymore, like raging or whatever to nightclubs. I just don't enjoy anymore. I feel like I shouldn't be working all the time because even my investors and shit, who have made really big money and been there and done that, tell me, oh, no, you need to have a social life and shit. And I'm like, do I have a bad social life or is this normal? Am I just going on Instagram too much? And then a bit of me is like, I want to go to fucking Soho Farmhouse and paint pictures by the fucking lake with some nice tanned girl and like, run 100 miles per weekend or something. Do you know what I mean? I feel like I'm always about to.

Say it sounds like you need a woman in your life.

I think there's certainly an argument for that.

Yeah.

But that's the missing piece a bit in me thought maybe that was okay. What about from the woman is an.

Interesting question for you then. So obviously your day to day now building space goods versus well over 12 months ago, like sort of the early days of neon. How has your motivation changed? Like when you were. When you're back then? A little bit less wise.

Well, a lot less wise.

A lot less wise than you are now. What was your primary driver that you're kind of obsessed about vs Honestly, I.

Spent more time two years ago thinking about the car I was gonna get next.

Yeah.

Literally, I'd be on auto trade on like a Monday morning. I was like, whatever. Like, there's a lot of money coming in. I was a bit of a cunt. Whereas now, I mean, from a business perspective, everything I'm doing now is just. It's because I've positioned myself to have the right people around me, which is like the single most important Thing in terms like investors, mentors, whatever fucking want to call them. And yeah, learning from those mistakes. But then also, yeah, just everything I'm doing is like, does it help me get towards the goal of realizing, like a personal liquidity event, as you say? Which makes it sound very fucking grandiose. But. Whereas before, I was probably just chasing, like, revenue numbers even.

Mm.

Which I think Jack is doing a little bit, but off the record.

But.

Yeah. Whereas now it's like from a business perspective, trying to. Yeah. Like, how can I actually position the brand and the business to be acquirable? And that's actually very different to just chasing like, revenue and even profit numbers. Because.

Okay, what's driving you? What's the motivation behind getting that exit?

Well, even this, I've started to scare myself a little bit because I started to worry that even when. Not if. When I get to that point, I'll probably still. My mind will still work the same way. Because I wouldn't say I'm naturally a very happy person. I'm just not. Like, that's a good or bad thing. I mean, I've very up and down. But I don't know, I find it. I find it quite hard being me sometimes because the way my mind works, I wish I could be satisfied with just more simple things.

Mm.

I don't even know if satisfied is the right word. Maybe fulfilled. Like I said this to my mum on the phone the other day and I was like. I suppose. Fucking wish I was like 85, IQ. I could just go to the pub every night and that would gas me up.

Do you think you try and seek faults in everything?

That's an interesting question. Because I know, I think my. I think my default. I'm definitely not cynical because I'm very optimistic about, like, the future and shit, but I'm like a cynical optimist. I don't know.

But you find when you go to a restaurant, will you. Would you. Are you more likely to think, oh, that's nice. Oh, that's nice, or would you think they've done that wrong? Or they've done that wrong?

I don't know. Maybe a bit of both.

Okay.

Where are you going with this? It's got quite an interesting angle.

No, I'm. I don't know, I'm just.

Because. Yeah, just the whole. Well, I guess your question was, how am I viewing things differently? I mean, from a business perspective. Yeah, I guess I'm trying to think longer term. It's probably the broader answer, but then.

But what? No, the question was what is it that. About the exit? That's. That excites you and drives you.

I'm not even sure it does excite me as much as it used to, you know?

Okay.

Which is kind of worrying because then I'm like, ah, fuck.

So you're more in love with the process than the outcome.

But I'm not even sure I'm in love with the process. That's the problem. I like doing it because I know that I fucking have to do something and I'm good at what I do, and I believe that I'm actually absolutely doing the thing that I'm meant to be doing.

When do you.

I think I've started to resent parts of the process because I sometimes wish that I said this on another pod that I did recorded yesterday. So I'm fucking sick of working from home for a start. I feel like I've got to the age where I would just, ironically, I'd rather be in an office with even if it was just five people just all grinding on a shared mission. But then the logistics of that are strange because the irony is I've set up everything that's fully remote. Everyone I work with is fully remote. They're not even in the same city. So then we can't have an office with five people, 10 people, unless you change things and make it that way.

But okay, so when.

But no, I'm still very motivated to hit that goal and stuff. But, yeah, I guess the intrinsic motivation for that is to continue having freedom. And I've always kind of felt like I had freedom because I have, but I guess have freedom for like decades if I was never to work again, which is different. But then also for like my future family. But then, yeah, I think about that a lot. But then it's like, who. Who's going to be my future family? Because, yeah, where am I going to meet this future wife for a start, to have that family with? I mean, that's a whole other issue.

And how much do you want to pass down to your family? At what point is it too much?

And then you hear people saying.

And.

Then like having, you know, having a. Having a traditional life with like a wife and kids would be really boring. But then, like, I instinctively think that's what I want to do at some point. I don't know if it's just like this crazy red pill Twitter community. They're trying to convince me otherwise. But it's interesting because I've never done it, so I don't know. Do you know what I Mean, maybe.

See, I'm.

The basic. What I'm saying is I'm trying to figure out because I have a. I have like seven years of the past year of doing this to an extent. I've got to the point where I now know what I don't know. But I also, I have a clearer perspective on what I think I'll feel like in a few years because of accommodation, my own experience, but also like wisdom from people that have actually been there and done that in terms of like making like eight figures and shit. And they're telling me that it's not all that. And it's like, fuck, wait a minute. Okay, so I'm already thinking about how do I find fulfillment, prepare myself to have fulfillment beyond that point if this thing that I've been chasing since I was like 16 as an entrepreneur might not even like fulfill me? Do you know what I mean? Does that even make sense? I mean, so I'm starting to basically start to think, yeah, what actually, like, fulfills me and drives me intrinsically beyond just the idea of a large exit, which is going to happen inevitably anyway.

In your, I mean, in your day, today, recently, like over the span of, you know, think of any time you've been a business. When do you most feel like in your art, you feel most alive? When.

Oh, I know that.

At your happiest. Like, what's.

It's always the most artistic, creative side, which is like almost something I've probably been fighting. When I was younger, I was like, oh, I need to be more of a businessman. I don't even consider myself a natural business person. I just got quite good at monetizing my crazy pink ideas and shit.

And so that's when you feel like most alive most in your passion. The most probably.

I almost probably feel more like a movie director or some.

Well, then there's your answer.

I like doing the pod, for example.

That's. So that's what. That's where you're probably most in love with the process. But the minute, as a startup company, when you are literally the jack of all trades, it's doing the. The finances.

Yeah.

But once you're at certain point of scale, if you just want to, you know, you've got the freedom thing, you know, I want to spend nights in our time in creative. Then you will be in love with the process. But it's got to suck and it's got to. It can't. That's. We gotta remember, it can't be easy, it can't always be fun. Like the beauty of it is in the, the pain and the suffering that you go through to build it. And if you get to the exit at the end in three years time, whenever it is you're aiming for, when you get to the exit in the end in three years time, the most of the, you know, the happiness and the fulfillment or whatever the joy will become come from knowing and remembering the pain and the suffering and the sacrifice you went to to get to that point.

This is what I'm saying. I'm worried now that when that happens, I'm starting to think I won't even think it was. I'll just be like, ah, it's the same.

Yeah, well, of course it will.

And then it's like, and then, and then you mean your demons are still there. All this sort of shit.

But that's, that's life.

Another thing as well is like, because I saw some LinkedIn posts and like LinkedIn's becoming like even worse than Facebook was. So it's just virtue signaling, but like some founder being like, oh, I exited and I actually wasn't that stressed and I enjoyed it and shit. And then. But do you know what I mean? Like, I sometimes debate, like, should I almost. Should I like crave the trenches to the point where like I'm actually self inflicting like mental damage because I'm working, like choosing to work all the time, or should I be like, oh, I need work, life, balance even. I've never even wanted that because I don't know, my life's just always felt like a big blend. But then like this, like, I don't know, like primal male inside me is like, yeah, it should fucking suck and I'll fucking like parts of it should suck and I'll enjoy that. And like, I want to go through like the trenches so I can prove to myself and look myself in the mirror and like crave that challenge, like the whole Goggins mindset.

Even, even worse to say now you shouldn't be like completely fulfilled and satisfied now because you've already been through a previous businesses that the pain, the sacrifice, the loss, the suffering. And you're at a point now where you've got a business that's on a, on a really positive trajectory that's, that's got some success. Of course, still at like, you're only not even the first 12 months in. But then how come you're not. Are you happy and satisfied with where you are now when you put everything into perspective? Do you think of that?

When I look back 12 months ago, I think that's a decent change. But then, yeah, I think the one thing I've. I'm quite good at is like just getting on with it and getting it done. Even when I probably subconsciously just fucking hate a lot the process. I particularly like last year when I was going through all that shit and everything was actually really shit for a while, at least in my head, but I still managed to fucking start the new thing, start a podcast, do it consistently, get in shape. So like, yeah, it's probably an element of discipline to the process at that point.

So. So coming back to your worries about how you're gonna feel post Exit, obviously.

I'm sure I feel pretty fucking good.

Well, like disappointment just comes from when reality doesn't meet your expectation.

Yeah.

And so in your mind now, obviously you're driven by this idea of this X as. As am I. What is your expectation of how you're going to feel, how life is going to be when you get to that moment?

Well, I think I've already experienced the disappointment of elements of that, as have you with things like the fancy cars and then realizing that two months in you're as your ass is sore and you feel the same as you did before and. And everyone thinks you're a cunt anyway. Yeah, I mean, so I've experienced that. Which is probably like what 99% of people think. Like being rich is like having a fast car. But yeah, obviously there's fucking levels to it, of course. And then even like many elements of the lifestyle stuff I've experienced from a young age anyway. So like getting to like that, I don't know, call it even 100 million quid exit, like there's not many things I'd probably do that are any different to stuff I've done before. It would just be over a longer timeline, maybe a slightly better version.

John Mean, there's really not much more you can do. 100 million versus 10 million or even.

Just like making 300 grand a year cash flow.

I think there's diminishing returns.

Yeah. So it's interesting. But obviously the difference of us at that point is like you could, you could do that forever and never have to work again. Which wasn't the case when I was like 22. Cash flowing from drop shipping. Do you know what I mean? But in terms of that, in the moment, it's like kind of the same.

Never having to work but you.

But then it's like I want to work anyway.

Exactly. If you're given the option to never have to Work again like right now. We could never. You could probably. Well your standards are living we quite poor. But you could probably like reduce your workload 95% and still get by.

Oh yeah.

I mean we know people that work 5% of the time that we do and somehow manage to scrape enough cash to live to live by. But the beauty is in. The beauty is in building and creating.

Go on.

Have you thought much more about post like after space goods liquidity event?

Do you know what? I spend way too much of my life in the future.

Yeah.

And I don't think that's actually why I'm probably not naturally that happy. Even if wouldn't say I'm necessarily like sad all the time. It's probably like just getting on with it and then. And because I think a lot about the future, like probably I reckon I'm capable of thinking like 18 months. It's like a. There's a dynamically moving like 18 month window ahead of me almost like a torch. And then beyond that point I don't know because even like a year or maybe even a year because even a year ago if you asked me what I'd be doing right now, I could probably hazard a guess. But I didn't actually all of this is quite mad even a year ago. So I didn't know what business I'd be working on. I hadn't started the podcast. I was living in this flat with a fucking girl. Like all that shit I did not think would be this different. So then I think Christ, like, so let's say this is a three year plan. It's like in another year that should do some serious damage. And then at that point what will I think about the next year? So I feel like it's always a moving target. But then the problem with always living the in the future I'm literally like even like today I'm thinking about what I'm doing tomorrow instead of just being here. And it's such a stereotype or cliche. But all we have is now. There's no such thing as the future. It doesn't exist. Might get hit by a bus tomorrow.

That hit me like a ton of bricks. And I always think of it though is there was remember the time where you wish you had everything you have now. And I like my, my life, the lifestyle I have is completely by design because there was a. There was a version of me many years ago that dreamed and visualized of having. Living in London, having a nice apartment, having my workstation, my setup, running my own businesses and for me, that was like the dream. If I was to back then visualizing that I was like, like really vividly in my mind, I would just be like, that gets so excited over that idea. And then once you achieve that, like.

That'S the scary thing because once you realize that in the first few years you have a taste of achieving your dreams.

Yeah.

You realize that by default the goal posts are always moving. And then it's a bit like, fuck, what if they're always moving? I'm never going to be there. But then have to realize that being there is actually here. But then that's where I get like, so why does it feel like I need the next thing? Is that so I have to work on myself? Or is that just the human condition? Or is that the entrepreneurial condition? Or is that the way of the superior man? Is that just how men are meant to be built? Or people? I don't know. But then I look at, like I said flippantly before, like, why can people go to the pub every night and be happy with that and probably are happier than me genuinely and more fulfilled? Are they just wired differently? Am I just a psychopath? Do you know what I mean?

It's a process. It's something you've got to learn. It's a skill. Learn to love the process. Learn to at least appreciate it and just definitely, I think everyone can. Can, Yeah. Have more, have more gratitude and. But it's. We're all guilty of it. Living in the future.

Yeah. I think another thing I realized, and maybe a lot of people would say anyway, but I feel like my entire existence is just the pursuit of like moments that feel like movies and when, when life is bland.

You do, you are you. Yeah, you do like to fantasize.

Fantasize. Even like making like brand films and shit. And like, I mean everyone probably does it but like even if I'm like walking down the street, I'll put a fucking certain dramatic piece of music on and like in my head like everything's like a 16, 9 cinematic ratio with a nice color grade. And yeah, I don't know, I'm almost like. It's probably partly why I set this up like this, to feel like I'm kind of in this like Stranger Things aesthetic movie. And it's like anything that isn't anything that feels mundane and almost normal. I'm like, fuck this, I want to be here. So maybe, maybe that's my. Maybe I'm becoming self aware.

I don't think that's a bad thing to kind of.

But even, like, moments with girls.

That's what. That's what I was referring to when I say, like, to fantasize about the kind of. The trips to Italy and the supercar driving. Yeah, some.

Some of those bits aren't fantasy, but some of them are still pending fantasy and they'll probably always be the next one. But, yeah, Marbella wasn't a fantasy, but even that, like, there's always the next thing.

It's a fairy tale now.

It's Italy with whoever. I don't know who.

Yeah. Just gotta choose which one.

Yeah, yeah, that. That actually is how I probably view the world.

What if. I mean, what advice you've been given by. Obviously, people that you've. Investors that you have now that have had. Had that exit. I mean, what is their. What is their advice for living in the moment and enjoying the process?

It's interesting because I speak to two of them in particular, Alex and Jimmy, who probably know from this pod they've both had, like, very big exits and they're both in their early 30s. But I feel like it's almost. It's probably easy for them to say because they've done it and they're kind of advising like, you know, a version of their younger self in me. But by default, I don't have their perspective and they don't have my perspective anymore because they're, like, out of the game or that they've, like, made it John mean. So it's probably easier for them to say, like, for example. Yeah. One of them telling me, like, you need to, like, enjoy your weekends and have a social life and all this shit. I'm like, yeah, but did you. Did you five years ago? Maybe you did. I don't know. But, yeah, I think it's something I'm battling with to find out what the balance is, because I would. Yeah, I would hate to look back when I'm. I think I've always had a very good balance, by the way. Like, more than. More than people that aren't entrepreneurs, ironically.

But, yeah, all it comes down to, I think everyone's got to practice gratitude a lot more. And remember, remind yourself of what you have. And when you practice gratitude, you live in the present. And then you've also got to have a compelling future that excites you, that compels you to work and push through the pain and suffering that comes with running a business, and that's it. And enjoy the game. And just bear in mind that whenever you get to that next thing that you want, it's not going to feel any different to how you feel now.

Do you think there's anything that doesn't fall within those rules? For example, like, people and relationships, whether that's romantic relationships, family, friends. Because obviously, like, I mean, like my parents say it to me all the time, like, yeah, you're not fulfilled by like, things or whatever. Because the only thing that can, like fulfill you is like, people. And I'm like, yeah, I kind of see that. But for example, do you think if you one day met your future wife, maybe you already know your future wife?

Maybe.

Do you think that would fill. Do you think that would like, fill a gap that the pursuit of always being better in like business can never feel because you're never going to get there? Do you reckon with like people, whether it's a wife or friends or whatever, do you reckon that is like the ultimatum? Is that like, do you know what I mean? Because that's what my parents try to say to me. They're like, I'll say like, oh, this sort of. And they're like, yeah, it's because you're pursuing like, you know, material business things and like, you're never going to get there because the goalposts are always moving by definition and that's fine. But like, maybe I should have some more foundational consistency in my life, whether that's through people or like where I live or like it jamming. Where am I going with this?

I. I would. Yeah, I wouldn't. I don't know. I disagree. I think if you, if you feel unhappy without a romantic partner, then I think a romantic partner is probably not going to make you any happier long term. Maybe in the short term. Yep, the honeymoon period. But.

Because like one thing naval said, right. So I listened to like his three and a half hour compilation thing.

Which one? How to Get Rich.

How to Get Rich. But I like how he's very articulate about things. I think anyone should listen to that. Spend three hours listening to it. He said, like, the ability to just need nothing and no one in life is like a superpower. And I listened to it on the plane and I wrote it down. But I would say, naturally I'm not. I don't do that well by myself. Not like, because I'm definitely more of a people person, whatever the that means. Like extroverted. Like I probably throw. I prefer being in busy rooms, like conversations. And if I'm by myself too much, I think over engineer the entire world in my mind and it becomes like repetitive and like ruminative. But then I was like, fuck. If he's saying that's like a superpower. Maybe I need to, like, go to some Japanese monk territory and sit by myself for, like, 16 years. But then for what point? Because I'm always gonna have more fun with people and things and because, like, can go so deep into philosophy, and then it's like, well, all right, why don't you just sleep in a bush? Like, why do you need a house? Because then you need something.

I mean, this is what we always joke about as boys is, like, we talk about, like, therapy and understanding our demons and stuff. It's like, if you could take a magic pill where suddenly you become this hippie where you are just extremely happy and fulfilled with everything you have now and have zero desire for any materialistic growth or acquiring wealth or whatever, would you take that pill? I'd probably say no.

I, like, instinctively.

Yeah, but. And that's when it comes down to the philosophical stuff. Yeah, that's just. That's like something you just have to kind of work on over decades and decades and decades. But I think while you're young, you just have to build and grow and acquire wealth, and then you can focus on the philosophical stuff.

Yeah, I agree with that. Do you think you can enjoy, like, the more, like, normal parts of life while trying to be, like, excellent in your 20s?

What's the normal part of life?

I guess, like, elements of social life, relationships with females, all this sort of stuff? Because it's an interesting debate, and it's one I've brought up many times on the pod, and it's one I think about myself, you know, should you just cut, you know, anything that could be deemed a net negative towards the pursuit of your business or future? Or actually, is that going to be, you know, is that going to neglect your fucking personal growth and that sort of shit? Where do you stand with that?

I mean. Well, time is a finite resource. Mean, we only have so much of it, and I'm only going to be in my 20s once, and there are only certain things I can enjoy when I'm in my 20s that maybe I won't be able to enjoy as much in my 30s or my 40s when life changes. And maybe there's, you know, a wife or kids involved or whatever, a life partner. And so there's certain things that I want to enjoy more, whether that's going out clubbing, networking, traveling more. We have the freedom to. But then there's also the paradox of the more you do something, the less you appreciate it. And so for Us now. Like there were probably periods where when I was younger that you, you'd go out a lot more often. And there's certain restaurants are just like incredible restaurants that you just go to so often that before, you know, you stop appreciating the food and. No, yeah, to name, to name one. And so for me, the way I see it is yes, if you want to build something significant, you have to sacrifice for that. And that means saying no to certain things and not going out as much. And when your business and your team needs you to, you stay in on the weekends, on the evenings and get the job done. But of course there are going to be periods when, okay, you know what? I've deserved this. Let's go out, party, let off some steam. And so yeah, it's, it's, I don't want to say balance because I don't think we as entrepreneurs should operate within the realms of balance. It's more extremes and there should be periods where seasons. Yeah, when you're at a stage of the business, like where you've, you've been. Maybe I'm at the minute as well, is where you're kind of trying to get something off the ground that requires a hell of a lot of momentum, a hell of a lot of work, a hell of a lot of bandwidth. Those are periods. Okay, well, cut the alcohol, cut the partying, cut the late nights. Especially this week, Monday to Thursday this week, I Woke up at 5am, showered, working at 5, 10, 5, 15am, I'd work until 12, do no calls, get all my done. But then I'd also be going bed at like 9pm Well, I didn't go to bed at 9pm last night, for example. And like August, I've pretty much said, yeah, I'm not interested in, in drinking, going out because I've got these huge milestones I need to hit. So it's, it's, it's about balance and if someone's going to tell you you can have it all and you can go out and you can party, you can have fun and you can travel and then you can want to, you can build something significant. I don't think they're going hand in hand. I'm yet to meet a nomad that's had a multi. 8 figure, 9 figure exit.

Nah, that's very true. You're putting me off going Bali, so. It is very true. Yeah. I think seasons, there's seasons for everything. Hello. You are the ultimate distraction.

Yeah, you got to have fun, right? You got to have fun. You got to enjoy it. You don't look back and think, I just spent the last decade of my life building this thing to have this one day where I have this amount of money hit my bank account and I've got no memories, no stories, no experiences.

Yeah, that's where I think I got it very right. Because I used to get people telling me, oh, you work too much. Yet they're the person that hasn't left the country in three years.

Oh, the stories and the yeah. That you've got are incredible.

Yeah. Some very crooked ones.

Very crooked ones.

Some that will never ever be publicized. Probably most. I try to think what other fucking tricky questions I can ask you before we wrap it up because there's so many.

What direction do you want to take it?

Probably relatively PC.

Okay.

Trying to get sued. What do you think you enjoy most about this stage of your life, if anything? Or are you more betting on future. Are you betting on like a future state? I mean, it's not a bad fucking life. You live in a beautiful riverside flat, granted, up at 5am hustling.

So to answer your question, definitely I've been through a phase of. For me it was the cars. Like, that was always my vice in terms of like, yes, peak materialism. The dream is always have my own business, get to a certain level of success, move to London, surround myself with an amazing circle, have one or two kind of nice cars, go to the gym every day, have a great routine and just work. And then you do that and you realize like we talked about, it's fun, it's a dopamine hit at the start and then you just kind of want to progress into the next thing. And now I've like, I've stripped back my life a little bit again, probably out of like. Right. I want to sacrifice things. I want less distractions in my life. Right now I don't have, I don't have a car. Which is actually kind of inconvenient because when I'm trying to travel around the country, it's borrowing or renting cars or getting drivers, but I'll get something soon. But I'm at a point where I'm just trying to understand more about, okay, what is it makes me happy. Practice gratitude a lot more and think in longer term time horizons. Because previously, again, early 20s, it was like, okay, where can I be in six months? 12, 12 months next month. Really wasn't thinking further than 12 months. Now I'm thinking more like five, 10, 20 years. What are the longer term plays? And I'm at A point now with the real estate business. Okay. I understand what the play is going to be there for the next 10 to 20 years with luxury property partners. There's a play there for the next five to 10 years. And, yeah, not that I'm thinking 10 years in the future and just obsessed about that. I'm enjoying the day today, but I'm thinking about, okay, what am I going to enjoy dedicating the next 10 years of my life to? What's the mission? What is the industry I want to change? Who are the people I want to help in the process? What impact do I want to have? I say impact like, not like humanitarian impact.

But I might become that.

Might morph into that later in life. Yeah, for sure. I think. I think your motivations and your missions will change as you get older and more mature and certain needs are met. So.

So if you're 50 years old, how would you describe your life? How do you see it being?

So the vision I have when I'm.

50, a specific vision for that age, that sort of age, I think at.

That point, I'd want to be removing myself a lot from the day to day, probably for a little bit. And I've always had this vision. It was just taking a massive yacht and just spending six months on the yacht. Just like sailing around the world and having a wicked gym on the boat.

Having a buzz cut, like a fucking sailing yacht. Or we're talking a super yacht.

Like a super yacht.

Yeah.

And just living on that. Having a cool gym on the yacht, amazing food, friends and. And reading books and stuff.

I don't know.

I don't know what. I don't know what my motivations will be. I don't know what there'll be. Kind of the impact I want to have at that stage of my life. Probably a family at that point. I would like to think of family at that point. And my family is still around looking after my family, of course. And, I mean, my parents, whatnot. So.

Yeah, it's mad to think that if you don't die, you will be that age. Join me.

That was really the deepest thing you've said.

All this is in, like, provided nothing bad happens.

Well, time is inevitable.

We're all aging. I find aging in time very scary.

Mm.

We're all moving at the same pace, but you can't change, like, your place in that timeline.

I think about that a lot. Like, inevitably, you will be 50. The decisions you make now will determine where you're gonna be at 50.

Yeah. That's why I Think a lot of this generation is fucked because social media has become even, even me. Like I've saying before, I fucking deleted Instagram from my phone, deleted TikTok from my phone. I probably download it like once a week, but it's such a drain. And I feel like a lot of people get to maybe I've probably noticed it even in myself. Like you get to like your mid-20s or whatever and you're like, ah, fuck, maybe I should cut the noise. Like there's a lot of bullshit, a lot of people I'm pretending I care about following, you know, watching stories, like responding to DMs, even. I'm sorry if you DM me from the pod, I basically don't respond to fucking anyone anymore because there's too many. I used to respond to all of them. Then it's like, it's not a priority. I can't do it.

So that, so that is another thing I've experienced actually now that I'm, I'm 25, halfway through my 20s. So when you're in school up until the age of 18, you're not really that responsible for yourself. You know, you, your school teachers, looking after your parents, looking after you. You're not out in the wild like in charge, in complete control of your own destiny. And so when you're like 18, 19, 20, 21 years old, you don't see the longer term effects of your decision making, your positive behaviors and negative behaviors. And then once you get to like. So for me at 25, for example, now I've been, let's say, left school seven years ago, you can then look back and see over a much longer time span how certain behaviors and certain habits and certain decisions that you make just on an everyday basis add up over time to get you to a certain point and then you can reevaluate. Okay, what are the, the belief systems I have that I've been holding on to that really I need to let go of? What are the habits and behaviors that really aren't conducive? What are things that I've kind of learned from my parents that I thought were right that actually never really took a moment to challenge those beliefs? You don't think always to like challenge the beliefs that your parents instill upon you? Not, not consciously, but you just pick up so much of who you are from your family and your environment as a kid. And yeah, you just gotta, I think, be self aware of all of those things and start to change them. Because like you say, then time is inevitable and if I keep making the same decisions and behaving the same way I have over the last five years. How is that going to term in where I'm going to be in the next five years? And how you make decisions today is how you're going to make decisions forever unless, unless you change, unless you change that. And I think a lot of people have got, can't, don't understand how to focus. They have, I think so many people have now and we're going to see the longer term effects of this. The psychology around money and spending money is just completely, I think for the social media it's, it's gonna, people are just not gonna understand how to save money and acquire money. They're just spending on things to make them look good. And consumer debt is gonna get bigger and bigger and bigger. And I think I saw something today like credit card debt is at all time highs and I think that's only gonna get higher and higher and higher. Of course that's due to inflation a little bit as well. But. But yeah, that's one thing I'm becoming more self aware of.

Yeah, social media is a weird one because a bit of me wants to fucking like not even have a profile and just go like rogue. But then I'm like a. It's basically the best day app available. The best day working app, networking, it's fucking everything. So if I don't have a profile, so if you don't build your own personal brand, people will build a brand for you and they're probably doing a bad light.

These platforms are designed like I bet you when Instagram or Facebook or their board meetings, the main capability they're measuring addicted is what is the daily, the amount of time user spending on it every day. And they want to do whatever they can to make you as addicted to the app as possible. And it is an addiction. How many times do you end up like picking up your phone, you're scrolling on Instagram, it's insane. You didn't even realize you picked up the phone. It was literally this, you know, pattern that you've just trained your brain to do. To pick up the phone, go to this app, start scrolling and you're just in a trance. And yeah, if you don't, Instagram can very quickly use you instead of the other round.

Yeah, I just find myself like really guilty of it. I like it as like a photo album and it's like a, you know, in 20 years time first generation will have this. You're like entire youth is on Instagram. I don't know if that's good or bad yet, but it's a good way to store memories. But then it's like why am I posting? Why do I care? Who's fucking seen my story? Do I care? Should I care? Do I only care about a few people watching it? Like yeah, why am I posting?

It all comes down to the intention behind it and you have to question that for some people it is branding and personal branding and networking and yeah.

So I got post this pod for example before we came on put on my story. Like promotion I guess. But it's also context and it's what I do a lot of time. And yeah, maybe there's nothing wrong with that but then it's like yeah, I'm just, should I be reading books and speaking to real people more rather than.

Just it's not mutually exclusive. Yeah either. Oh, I'm sucked into this digital world.

I think scrolling on TikTok for like two hours a day before bed is a problem, which my ex girlfriend used to do.

I think anyone listening?

I think Tick Tock is mad have.

To delete Tick Tock off your phone. I've not had Tick Tock on my phone for months.

I meant to be fair, I've never actually used it. I looked at a few things and I. But yeah, that is mad addictive and it's like trash as well. It's not even people, you know in most cases like for you page or whatever. Crazy.

I saw Instagram said in a video recently how they feel they're behind Tick Tock in terms of the algorithm and figuring out what content you want. And I think that's what TikTok has nailed is the more you scroll and the more you engage, the more they know about you. And then the more relatable content I.

Saw on a Joe Rogan clip. There's some terms things basically long story short like that their terms everyone signs up to not really knowing is that they can like record everything you've ever done on your phone including like what you're typing for or they can like look through your camera. All this sort of shit. There's some conspiracy that it's like a Chinese owned thing to get the world's information.

I've noticed recently a couple times when I went on it on a couple apps as well, there's a pop up that comes on the phone. It said this app wants to connect with other devices on this network. As in yeah, if you're on the same wi fi network, my phone wants to communicate with yours and Someone told me that in TikTok, if I'm around you and our phones are connected via the network, it's going to start showing me things that you're interested in as well. Because they think if we're together, they might be interested in this. I don't know. Who knows? I don't care. I actually, I'm all for, like, I would rather see content and see ads that are tailored towards me. I'd rather see that than irrelevant stuff. So I don't mind it if my phone's listening. I've got nothing to hide. I don't care if my phone's listening to me or they know what I'm typing into Google.

Yeah, neither do I, really. Yeah, it's just straight. It's just the way the world's going. It. It's mad. It's mad. All right, final few questions.

Go on then, have some of this wine.

I probably don't have asked you this last time, or if I didn't, in fact, first question, what's been the hardest thing since you go into this whole property thing, maybe when you're like 18 or even just fucking life to this point.

Hardest in what sense? Hardest isn't like hard work or hardest in something. Like you've had to overcome.

The most challenging thing or period or. I guess it's a broad question. And why?

Probably, probably point of failure. At a certain point in my journey, I would have talked about this on my. On the last one we did where I built up a certain amount over a number of years and I pretty much had it lost, lost it all. Trying to get to that next level just fell into the wrong business opportunity. But it was a. It was a lesson that was more valuable than anything I could have lost at the time anyway, so. So probably that and then rebuilding from the ground up. So however many years back, sadly, the hardest. The hardest thing I've gone through, but then other than that, just the. I don't know, just. I think more so the stress of like, just trying to build teams and manage people and understand where your own weaknesses are and having to like, stay, stare at yourself in the mirror and understand, like, really have your weaknesses exposed, which. Which just comes up inevitably when you're running a business. You just, you think, I'm not good at that, I'm not good at that. I'm not good at that. And you don't beat yourself up over it. Get in your own head. And it's a bit of the. I mean, you talk about the Dunning Kruger, where you Think you think you're at the top of the peak. Oh, I'm sick of this. And then if everyone looks at the Dunning Kruger chart and then it's like the more you learn and the more you know and the better you get the men. You realize how little you know in the grand scheme of things and then your confidence completely drops.

There's a lot of people on Twitter that need to go over that crest at the top.

Yes.

And realize they know nothing. There is a lot of 18 year old dropshippers. Where do you want to be in a year? How's that look? We've talked a lot about 50 years. I think 12 months. That's certainly my.

So in a year. Luxury property partners between 50 and 100 agents. More quality over quantity. On the real estate side of things. Have the new equity fund set up, raised a significant amount of money and bought a few assets. I mean we've not talked about that and probably there's not actually a lot I can say for compliance reasons right now until I get certain things signed off. Because if I say too much it'll be a financial promotion if I'm promoting a fund which is regulated activity. And yeah, construction underway on. On a few of the deals we're working on. Living in the same place, doing the same thing, hanging with the same friends, working the same hours, probably just doing the same as I am now. But the numbers on the screen are just a little bit bigger.

You're gonna run another marathon, aren't I? Oh wait, you did an Ironman. You've done a marathon.

I've not done a marathon. Its own. The only marathon I've ever ran was at the end of the Ironman.

Yeah, it's more impressive than my attempt.

That was. Yeah, that was a bit of a pain cave. Well no, to be fair, running a sub 3 marathon.

I've done it yet. But I'm gonna go for a half marathon PB this weekend.

When is the marathon?

Eight weeks. Sunday 2nd October.

So either. So before the the Ironman. The longest I've ran a week before was 17 miles. And I did that like the week before. I was gonna see how far I can run. I like got to 70 miles. I was like I can't run anymore.

And you're 26 at the end of the Iron Man.

But then also one, you've got all the adrenaline. You've got everyone clapping and cheering your name and you think I've come all this way you can't even feel. And to be fair, I'm probably discrediting myself here. It's. It's run walk, run walk. And they're like. I mean, it was in Frankfurt.

It won't be run walk for me going sub three. I'll be spinning.

But in Frankfurt, it was along the river and then literally every 50 meters, they had a table of like, biscuits, red balls.

Oh, really? So it was like hypoth again, A few biscuits.

Yeah, it was all right. It was. That was the hardest physical challenge I've ever done. But if you train for it and you zone in, it's just one of it in front of the other.

Yeah, I'm fucking keen for it. To be fair. I hope I didn't peak too early. It's my keeping my shin safe.

See, that's harder, though, because that's a different. That's it, like max heart rate. You're gonna be running at the.

Yeah. Like 170 highway.

I think the whole thing like Iron man is just. It's probably average, at least 14 hours, but it's. Yeah, you're at like 140, 150, probably. 150, yeah. Heart rate, which is sustainable.

Yeah, we'll see. I'll have David Goggins, like, saved on my Spotify. The cookie jar.

Yeah.

What if you.

What if your headphones run out of battery?

Forget I was thinking this. I don't know. We'll see. I'll figure out. Right, final question. I'm going to mix it up for once. I was asked about three bits of advice, but if you could give one broad piece of advice, and it's broad because it's going to everyone watching, just assuming that a lot of them want to do something and be great in some way. As a young person, what's the one piece of advice? On reflection, given your ass. Too young, but, you know, for 18, 19, whatever, what would you say? And you can only say one, so it doesn't. Don't make it property specific.

Yeah. There are a couple of things I'll.

Maybe say a few.

Well, the first thing is like, you need to. You need to. You need to aim high, believe that it is possible and believe that you can do it. Like, you just need to have kind of that delusional sense of self belief that I can do this. And unfortunately, a lot of people that maybe been brought up in kind of unsupportive environments, they've had people tell them, you know, you won't be able to do this, you can't do that, and you need to reprogram your mind to Teach yourself that, you know, what if. If he can do it, I can do it. And that's the way I look at anything.

I look at.

If he can do that, there's no reason why I can't do that within, you know, certain, to a certain extent. But, you know, I'm sure you say the same like anything that I've ever done. And, you know, I don't think I've achieved anything of significant value, but from just what I've learned and the journey that I've been on, I think anyone could follow my footsteps. And then probably the second thing is you. The generation we're in now and the benefit we have been in this generation is you can learn from people that are so far ahead of you just through the power of online content. You go back a hundred years, if you want to learn something, you're restricted to the library down the road or the people that you knew personally within a personal network that lived in the same town or village as you. Imagine me going back to my hometown, you going back to York, and the only people you can learn from about business are not the people you've met on Instagram, not the people you've seen online, but the people that live in York. It's so much more difficult. Whereas now I think it's important that you consume intently. You understand, okay, what is it I want to learn? What does that need to learn? And who are the best people to learn from and just dive into their content and invest in yourself and your education, your skills. I mean, if you've got a thousand pounds or five thousand pounds in your bank account, investing that into property and getting a 10% return a year is. Is insignificant in terms of the returns you can get by just improving your skill sets. Learning marketing, learning how to, you know, build out, shopify, store, or how to raise money from investors or whatever. Whatever. Just that probably be the main thing, because I think that's all I've done, is I've just spent God knows how many hours in front of a screen learning from people. And I just find it fascinating that I can literally watch and listen to billionaires that have spent the last three, four, five decades even more playing a game, and they can just do an hour talk, sharing all of their lessons, all of their learnings, not all of them.

They get like 300 views.

Yeah.

And what's that saying? We are drowning in information, starving for knowledge. Isn't they?

Starving for wisdom.

Starving for wisdom, yeah. True in it.

So, yeah, my final two cents.

Yeah, no, it's good. Part two then wrapped Season two Episode something. Subscribe to the pod. There's plenty coming and we'll see you on the next one. Cool. Cheers for watching. Peace.

Sam.