Building a Million £££ Fashion Brand at 22 - James Moore | Midnight Podcast Episode 16

Right, we're back. Episode, I think fucking 16. Now we have James from Remedy Remedy Clothing, which we'll get into him in a second. But Tokyo is here, as usual. I'm very fucking ill. I have man flu, I think, so apologies if I'm like sniffing and coughing during this episode. And as I was just saying off camera, yeah, I've just been in a bad mood this week because, full transparency, me and my girlfriend did finally properly break up a few weeks ago. I don't know when this is coming out. This is probably like two months later when this comes out, but I know I've mentioned it a few times. So Back in the Saddle didn't record last week, which was a first, but I'm like five weeks ahead. And yeah, I'm keen to get into this one. It's gonna be good. Probably the least research I've actually done on a guest, but I just thought we'll just fucking wing this one because I feel like shit, but we're gonna pull through. Got Fisherman's Friend lozenges in my throat and it's an anti wine podcast this week, so I'm trying to cut it out. But yeah, I'm keen to dive in, I guess. First question as usual, and you've probably been asked it a billion times. Just pull that mic a little bit closer. Just basically, who are you? What do you do? And a bit of your background and we'll be diving to it.

But easy. Start my fashion brand, basically, my name is James Moore, 22. Start my own fashion brand when I was 14, in the whole world of E Comm fashion. Been doing a lot of like, styling at the moment with artists and stuff. So, yeah, yeah, trying to grow. Trying to grow the brand. It's pretty much my life. Been running it since I was a kid, like I said. And it's mad, like I say, the stuff we get to do, design clothes, put on artists, travel the world. It's getting there. It's crazy smallish in comparison, but it's consistent. It's consistent growth all the time, which is good. Which is the main thing in it.

14 is mad, to be fair. Like having done something eight years and you're only 22.

Yeah, it's long. But imagine you starting when you were 14, the shit you'd have got, man. Yeah, like when you were a kid, everyone be like, oh, what are you doing this for? What's this? What's this? And like, oh, you're gay, you're doing clothing and that. But yeah, like it's. It's all changed now, obviously like when you first bring out products. Not gonna be good, is it? Yeah, you constantly evolve in it basically.

How did you physically, like, what was the first step like? Was it like a conscious thing? Like I've always wanted to run a clothing brand or was it like. I feel like a lot of people, myself included back in the day, not 14, I would have been 18 or 19. But clothing I guess feels like to a lot of people are fairly not easy but obvious one.

Yeah, it's the lowest hanging fruit in it really. Like get a T shirt, put a logo on. But yeah, man, just. It was, the whole thing was kind of. There's other brands doing it, you know, Hype. Yeah, yeah, they were doing it a few other brands around that like time, but then like no longer exist anymore. So I was like, you'd see them on like your Facebook and then you'd be like, oh, that's cool, that's cool. So one of, one of my mates at the time, we were like, right, let's start a brand. Like, you know, we did all that shit where you'd like buy stuff on ebay and you'd put the, like, you ring around, get someone to try and put your logo on it, embroidery. And it was just, yeah, it was like easy ish to start but to everyone else they thought you're crazy like starting a business, you know, I knew nothing, basically. All self taught, I guess.

And did you go like, did you drop out of school then? What's the crap like obviously at 14.

Yeah. What's the story when I say I started at 14, it was like that's when I first entered this like world of fashion now. But it wasn't like a case of like I started the business at 14 and then was like had an office at 15.

Exactly.

Yeah. It was a case of like started it then obviously you're in the like, what was I in, like GCSE period and that. And like I wasn't really doing it, just posting a few photos on Instagram and then it was really, I'd probably say the real, real is when I was probably 16, 16, 17, that's when I fully started doing it. Where it was a case of like dealing with influences and all that shit, which I'll get on to after. But yeah, it's, I'd have to show you pictures and that. It's hard to explain but they're like looking back now, it's, it's, it's quite.

Humbling be like, is it all on the same instagram account.

Yeah.

Three and a half thousand pictures.

A lot of people. Yeah, a lot of people with brands, they kind of delete in like.

Yeah.

Each year. But I've just kept on there because it's. That's what it. That's the. The past. It's good to look back and reflect. I mean, you get some weirdos, fucking scroll down everything. There's one guy, 10 minutes. Liked every single photo for like crazy. Just for no reason. But yeah, it's good to look back.

And has it always just been you then, like, in terms of founding it, the sole founder that.

I mean, there was a. It's that. The original idea of Remedy or rmdi, whatever you call it. There was. There was another guy, just one of my friends at the. But that was just like. Like I say nothing. That was just me and him started it and as kids. And then, like, I say I started it, basically.

Yeah.

I mean, he might have done a few things, but nothing. Nothing to what it is now.

Yeah.

But yes, it's lonely sometimes.

Yeah, I can relate. So you went to sixth form or. He dropped out.

One year of sixth form, first year. It was kind of like just go. Just because you don't really know what you're doing.

It wasn't.

I think I was even. I was running the brand, but not as focused on it, basically. And then.

Yeah.

Blagged it into. Wanted to do Economics because I wanted to. I basically watched Wolf of Wall Street. I was like.

As a kid, I was like, I.

Want to be like Leo and be in. Do all that lifestyle shit. And then. Yeah, Black did economics. I did about two lessons and fucked that off because it's hard. I don't know if you're a number. Are you a numbers guy?

Not really. I did Economics, A level, AS level.

What do you think of it?

I don't know. I think. I think our teacher taught us too much. And then I got a B in my A levels, which is.

That's pretty good.

No, I should have got an A star, but.

Okay.

Okay, I'm over that now. Feels like a long time ago. It's pretty irrelevant.

How long would that have been? About 10 years.

20? No, not that long. A levels. What? 2014. So what's that coming up?

Yeah, Mad everybody. Economics and stuff like that. But yeah, did the year in sixth form and then the second year I basically started working with influencers and stuff like that. And then that's when, like, the brand just. I say it blew up. It didn't. Like now it's not blown up, it'd be like a bad day for us. But like, yeah, it started doing okay. And then it got to the point where I was like, mom, I don't need to be in school anymore. Yeah, Basically sixth form. Had one of my teachers in sixth form, basically was never attending. And this is the sec, this is the second year now, six, four. Basically never attending certain lessons. And she used to say, you know why you're back? You're falling behind on your coursework. What are you doing? What's going on? Where are you? And then she was like, oh, yeah, I know you're doing this. Your brand on the side, you know, is it really worth it? You know, you don't want to throw away what you've worked for in A levels and that when.

Yeah.

And all that shit. Yeah. Basically, one of the teachers in school, she knew obviously I wasn't attending as much, and she said, you've fallen behind on your coursework and like, oh, you've. They give you that bullshit stuff. They're like, you've worked so hard. Even though I hadn't to, you know, to get into sixth form. I didn't, but like, you know, you should be here, you should be focusing your stuff. But then she was like, but on the other side, the flip side, you've clearly got a passion for business, fashion. So, like, I'm saying to you, if you want to go down that route, you're your business or you focus on your A level. She was like, you're gonna have to make the decision what you want to do. And I was like, oh, Miss, I know what I'm gonna do. And she was like, I know you can do too. And then that was like, pretty much one of my last days in school is I would. Yeah, second year pretty much.

So you didn't finish edibles?

No, no, I did. I remember going to one of the exams office and saying, probably a bit cocky. Just like, I'll just tell, you know, I'm not doing the exams. And they're like, well, you are. I was like, I'm not. I'll pay for it if you want. And they were like, doesn't matter the money. I wasn't like cocky that. But yeah, probably had a thing against teachers where I was like, don't really like authority. Like, not authority like that. But like.

Yeah, I know you mean it's a bit.

It's like.

Yeah, it's just like a generation thing in it. I think, like, that generation didn't really have like the online opportunities, so by default they're probably closed minded to it 100%.

They didn't, wouldn't know what it was. It was. Yeah. You're building this because it bear in mind this is like 2015 time. It still wasn't early in econ but it's still like.

Yeah, early for like Shopify brands and shit.

Yeah.

So Facebook ads and that.

It was, it's quite like a foreign language to teachers and stuff like that. Obviously my mum, she was from a background of being a teacher as well, so she was always kind of like, oh don't, you know, you know, don't wreck this opportunity we've got and that. But my dad, he's from business background so it's been like drilled into me as a kid. It's like fucking business, business, business.

So did they he support that?

Yeah.

To be fair, even at like 17, yeah.

He was literally like fucking. I remember when I was younger he always used to say to me like, sure, you want to go to school? I was like, well yeah. And he's like, well you just come in.

That's pretty good. That's pretty good support system.

Yeah. But like obviously mum's good but yeah, I think it's your upbringing as well.

What was? Well, nah, my parents thought I was an idiot for pursuing entrepreneurship.

Yo fellas, quick one. First bit of promo for the pod. You may or may not have heard, I released a fucking E Commerce a few months ago. Basically spent like six months making it because I was in between. As you probably know, if you follow my shit, I must say, 12 hours long. It's fucking quality content. I was gonna drop it at like 1500 quid with some bullshit guru y webinar and all that rubbish but as you know, it's not my main thing. I'm working on a new brand right now, very, very fucking much in the trenches. Which is why I think is actually a better course than everything else out there because it's built on real experience of my brands in the past and my current one. I think it's super, super valuable. If you're interested in E comm, you're already in E comm and you wanted to get into e comm. 0 to 1 starting a brand from scratch then definitely worth investing in. Link is in the bio of this video or podcast, Spotify, Apple Music, wherever the fuck you're watching and enjoy the.

Rest of the pod, I think. I don't know, just, just like standing middle class family I suppose, just happy with what.

What were they doing? Just like 95 type stuff.

Yeah, mum's a nurse and like health visitor. Dad used to be an architect and now works in something to do with that. Like in like building. Yeah, I guess just like corporate. I know.

You mean they've always traditional like. Yeah, yeah.

I think there's an interesting point there because I can't work out like if it may be if like E comm and that and online stuff had been around a generation ago, would a lot of like my and other people's parents have been like more entrepreneurial or is it just A, like genetic and B, people in general were less entrepreneurial then because there was less opportunities? I don't really know.

Yeah, because I mean opportunities now fucking handlers. Opportunities left, right and center to make money or build a brand. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

You'd say right now. Right now I'd say. But like you say back then, none of that. Yeah, there's no way in hell you could do like that back then. Like if you wanted to, for example, open a brand or a fashion brand, you gotta get shops, you gotta have.

Yeah, people like that.

Like the startup costs are phenomenal, whereas now you could do it in a bedroom.

Yeah, I wanted to be fair. If that's like made if like evolution wise it there'll be like more entrepreneurs in like a thousand years because like obviously more and more technology. Yeah, but then by definition will entrepreneur means something else because like it's always meant like I don't know, the 1% of people that go and do their own thing, whatever that is. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Where it's like 2000 years, everyone's probably gonna be doing their own thing or the workplace would be so different.

I don't know now, isn't it? It's getting, it's getting different. Like remote work and all that.

It's so true. It's actually like the generation we're living.

In, I find it. I don't know about you, but it's the best, I think. The best.

Yeah, it's definitely best. It's definitely the best because it couldn't be more.

I say it lightly, easy. It couldn't be more easy because like I said, you've got access to Google, got access to Internet, so fucking everything. Facebook, it's on you, in your hand. And it's so easy.

I read a quote there the other day who's like, I don't know what it was but like, I think he said that we are drowning in information but starving for wisdom.

That's gotta go.

It's actually very Fucking true. Because there's more information than ever. More access. But because there's more access there's more distractions and more competition as well and more, you know, social media, people flexing, stuff that isn't true.

Like I don't like all that. Do you think the Instagram and that is a distraction? That's. That's.

We're getting pretty deep for 13 minutes into.

Come on man, let's go.

This is good. We can go deep on a billion things. I don't know. Well yeah, cuz I took like seven months off Instagram when all that shit happened.

Isn't he didn't want to talk to no one or like basically I was.

Just deleting my personal profile. I like disabled it. But yeah, I mean there's definitely pros and cons. I've come to conclusion now. I think for me it's probably net beneficial work wise and life wise to have social media than not.

Yeah.

But I think like with anything it depends how you use it.

Yeah. It's like I say how you meet new people. For example Instagram without that where you indeed travel up to Chester and like trying.

Yeah, exactly. Like yeah. So many things I even. Yeah. Like I was saying to you before off camera, like potential investors for this thing I've met through social media ultimately on the podcast. Like shit like that.

Do you do. You don't do LinkedIn, do you?

I've got a LinkedIn profile, but I wouldn't say I do LinkedIn. LinkedIn is. I feel it's becoming like the Facebook news feed. Like people post pictures of like the fucking breakfast. I don't know.

It's quite cringe I think it's very like everything's always filtered on there. Like everyone's too like professional. Yeah.

Should be sorted to an extent.

But I don't know, I just feel like people who are really on there that you should really. You should basically if you want to see someone's true colors, go on there. Like I would say go on their Instagram, but go on, go on their Facebook I'd say because like Instagram you can tarnish it up a little bit. You can look a bit better and like with the lifestyle stuff. But LinkedIn is just a bit. Then I just feel it's an online.

CV as well, isn't it?

Yeah, it depends what you use it for though in it really.

Yeah.

But yeah I would say as well Instagram definitely a distraction. I've had to put a fucking timer on mine.

Yeah. I was gonna say you still Got an account because it's how I message you on here. Yeah, but yeah, it's true. Like I do find myself just definitely aimlessly scrolling a lot more than I wouldn't if I didn't have Instagram. But that's just a self control thing.

Do you have notifications on and that's good? I don't. But then do you feel like you check it more though that you haven't got notifications? Yeah, I do. Who's messaged me?

I don't even have WhatsApp notifications. Was that me buzzing?

Did you hear it before you got WhatsApp?

Oh, it would have been Jack.

That's all it was.

Yeah, you are right. You end up fucking checking it which isn't that efficient.

But like you say, just go back to the beginning. It depends what you use it for. Using it for business, using it to flex, whatever, use it for whatever. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, very true. Just coming back to the clothing then for a minute before we get down to fucking very deep rabbit hole which I'm sure we will do again. So when you like fully went into into the brand I guess at 17, do you think you're more interested in like business and E commerce or you were more interested in fashion and the vehicle to sell it was E commerce?

Pretty much. Yeah. So like always as a kid it'd be like my mum would always take time to kind of not dress me but kind of just like I always remember as a kid she'd always, I'd always have to go to next with her and I'd hate at the time but she'd always put me in like the nicest stuff and that.

Yeah.

And always make me look good. So I've always had like nice clothes. Always remember in, in school when it was like clothes day in school. Yeah, love that where you work with me.

Like Gucci.

Yeah, that'd be like that now. But like back then it was like.

Yeah, literally.

Yeah, next stuff. But I just used to love that because I just used to feel like oh like the uniform. I just love to wear my own stuff. So I guess it was the cool thing to do a fashion brand because you'd look at people like I remember early doors represent like they were like.

One of those Tumblr emo brands.

They were. Yeah. Like the beanie hats and the long elongated.

Yeah.

But I remember seeing all that and I thought nice is sick. But it just so happened that Ecom was the platform to sell it because like I say to start a shop you're gonna need thousands and thousands of pounds to fund it.

Yeah.

Where is Ecom? I think the startup cost was like what fucking 150 quid?

Yeah. Legit. So when you dropped out, what sort of numbers you doing? Like obviously you could sustain yourself I guess if your parents were approving of it.

I don't even. It wasn't even more. I mean I think to drop out it was pretty much like what was it like? What did I do? Like two grand a week it is in sales.

Yeah. Which is so good.

Yeah. That's it for like a kid. But it's. Yeah. I was bothered about the money but I don't think I was as like oh my God. I just thought the coolest thing was that I never had a boss or never had anyone to tell me what to do. I just had freedom basically. That's what I was saying before about the authority type thing. I always said I don't want to have a boss. I don't want to have someone to tell me what to do. You do that.

Yeah, very true.

It's like very true. Same for you. You don't. You've worked a few jobs.

Have you worked in a burger bar? Was my last job before five years ago when I was in uni. Had a few jobs.

Yeah.

Never like professional ones.

No. But did you always think comics did like.

Yeah, I always hated it. Yeah.

But yeah, you gotta do it though.

Rite of passage. Yeah. Yeah. But it's. I don't trust people. I've never had a shit job unless they started business at 14.

Yeah. But I did work as well though when I was like when I was. That's like I said. What did I say before? Yeah. When I was still starting a brand. I did have another job as well. So it doesn't sound as glorious as it was. It wasn't a case of like fuck, there's this much.

Were you full time when you dropped out or do you still like part time jobs?

I don't remember. No, that was it. So it was. I think it quit school in them in the March time and then I was working in Iceland, the food place, fucking the freezes and stuff which I think it was fucking very humbling. Great experience. And then I think I quit in the August there or the June. Then I went fully like head down with this and yeah, best. Obviously best decision I've ever made.

Yeah. So doing two grand a week roughly. Whatever. 17. What does like what's the setup like? Are you still holding stock in your parents house? You Working at home. Yeah, yeah.

Hell, it was literally. I'll show you pictures after the whole.

You.

You can imagine what it'd be like. The whole like bedroom covered in boxes. Stock like you. I can't remember. I think I bought. Bought an ironing board from Argos to pack my orders on and all that stuff. I was fortunate. Another job I had. I've only had two jobs. The My first ever job was in a sportswear shop where they did embroidery, printing, all that stuff. So that's how I met them and they were able to obviously embroider print for me. So I was basically kind of using what they've got as an advantage to me and doing everything there so I didn't really have to bring all that home. Basically do all my remedy stuff in there in my work time in there and then send it off to the post office down the road so I wouldn't have to do anything.

Yeah. How are you getting sales at this point?

A lot of it was organic Instagram. But then the big thing which is like took it to that like 2k mark, whatever was the whole. We basically just did a collaboration with. Remember Geordie Shaw?

Yeah. I went to Union Newcastle. They used to be filming there every night.

Swear. Yeah. Because you would have been in that era of doing it.

Yeah. Like 6, 20, 16, sort of.

That's prime.

Geordie Shores and Scotty T. Scotty T would literally. I freaking say this on camera. I swear. He would have been 26, 27 maybe at the time, I think. And he'd be picking up 18 year old girls from a student accommodation in this Lamborghini he had. I remember it distinctly. I used to see outside where I used to live and be Scotty T. Which 18 year old are you taking this this week? Maybe they were 19. Let's throw him a bone. But it was bad.

Yeah, that's it. But you know, girls would look at him and be like, oh, he's got this. Because it's easy for him really, innit?

Yeah, 100% back then.

But I think he went bankrupt though, you know, bust.

I've heard something like that.

Yeah. I don't know. But that's it. Like they live this lavish lifestyle and nothing, no money's coming in, they can't sustain it.

Yeah.

So it's got to go. But yeah, just mad to look back. Obviously doing the whole promo thing with. Did a promo with Aaron. Aaron off Jody Shaw.

Yeah.

It was the whole case of him would basically get a photo. Shit photos. By the way, looking back they're fucking awful. Like, that's just. It's like me getting a picture of you there.

I've done a promo in for you.

Have you?

In the past year.

And he'd do like, okay photos back then and post on his Instagram and just be like, the next 100 people to follow Remedy. We'll get this. It's this like all this shit and like you just, you follow up and then that's when like the sales would start to come in. And I remember being in Iceland and working. I remember going upstairs. I always used to get like Jimber, Big Cartel. Did you ever go on that?

Never use it, but like pre Shopify.

Yeah, that was, that was like the early days and you always used to get an email and it's like Big Cartel order number one, two, three.

Yeah.

And I just remember that buzzing in my pocket because I was on a shift in. In Iceland. It was like 7pm and we agreed every Sunday for the next six weeks because Sunday was like a prime time in it. Yeah, Sunday, 7:00pm Aaron posts. I just remember my phone going, da, da, da, da. And it was like orders while I was in work, like stacking the fucking shelves. So I went upstairs and I was like, I'm just being sat like in the, like the locker room. I'm just thinking, oh, this is absolutely nuts. I'm here and I've got this going on on the side as well. It's mind blowing.

Mind blowing. Yeah. I was back when influences actually worked really well.

Yeah, don't.

Do you remember what you were paying him? Was it like a big chunk given if you work in Iceland? It must have been. Must have felt fucking heavy.

Yeah. But well, the heaviest thing that year also, like so much has happened. I got scammed as well. I'll tell you about that in a minute. Maybe it was. I can't even remember how much money it was for the first one. I think the first one was like three grand for like two posts. So 1500 pound a post, which is a lot of dough, but yeah, it's obviously stuff you'd built up. Built up? Built up selling because I wasn't doing any ads then. So you basically your whole profit was kind of.

Yeah.

Sell a T shirt for X amount and then take away any of the cost. Was no ad cost involved, no overheads. It was just straight pure profit.

Yeah.

Which is good. See, I remember paying him, paying him that. And I remember ringing his like, agent and him just saying to me, like, look, you know, I'll look after you. It's a big thing for you. All that salesman type stuff. But you know, he pulled through. It was like great. Best if it was like that now the investment, the ROI on it would have been fucking fantastic.

Yeah.

Because like Jumbo on Instagram, you'd. If you posted something, everyone would see it.

Yeah. Facts now it's organic for each is dead. Yeah.

I think they did it on purpose though.

100% they do. It's like Facebook news feed. Facebook used to get organic reach back.

In like 2014, but now it's you.

Post like Facebook famous people. Remember that?

That's one of the reasons I started.

You know, they were like pre Instagram influencers.

So it was like. I can't remember some of the names, but that was there with the whole like one of the reasons, like Will McGuinness.

Yes.

He used to put stuff on his Facebook and Instagram and tag us. But he says do like stupid shit. Like the next 10 people to like this I will DM you with love heart.

Yeah. Some bullshit like that.

Which is mad. But it worked like I've got you go on mainstream later and scroll down and I think there's an old video of me like recording the screen and Will McGuinness, like doing a shout out to us that was like so cheap that it was like ten pounds for him to do a status.

Yeah, legit status. Jesus.

I mean, but like now like influences, as you're aware, you've worked with them, they just. Yeah, it's more of the actual content they create now.

Yeah, definitely content and like social proof and shit.

But for followers and stuff like that, you're not gonna gain off a post. Now I remember you saying you did.

One with J Albrez, which is the biggest one.

Yeah, he's cool as fuck.

7 million followers.

What was something like that? Was that expensive?

45 grand for three posts dollars.

So about 15, $15,000 a post?

Yeah, about 10,000 pound a post, which is a lot. And it didn't really do it. It didn't work.

It swear. What did you think? Did you have to do the like. Was it 50% up front or was it 100% up front?

Pretty sure it's 100% up front.

Yeah.

Like bank transfer spec. You can't be charging that back.

Fuck. So that's kind of like a gamble really?

Yeah. I mean, I spoke about a previous party that was a borderline scam. But you said you got. You got scammed. What's crap with that?

Not as like mad as that. Had a guy On Instagram. Message me. I don't remember. Do you remember like load of like accounts from like Pakistan and that had messaged you like, I'll be your supplier, let me be your supplier. Any of that?

Maybe, yeah.

I don't know if they did that in your industry, but mate, anyone who runs Ecom Fashion, fashion brands will get in. My requests are just hundreds of suppliers from Pakistan or China. Let me manufacture this. I can do it for $2 even though they can't. But I'll do it for this. Yeah, this one guy messaged and he was like, he's clever because he, he said, hey, I need help with my order. This was going back, 2017, 2016, 2017. I can't remember just finishing working in Iceland. So obviously I'd saved up a bit of money. I was happy. And he messaged me saying hey, I need help with my order. And I was like, oh, this is, this is okay, I'll help you. Let me know your number. He was like, haha, got you. I want to make some clothes for you. I said, oh, that's very good. And then I just like, oh yeah, this guy's obviously sound. He's like, yeah, I wanna, I wanna make some clothes for you. I'm a manufacturer from Pakistan, sending me a load of videos, pictures and that was, I was like, wow, this is cool. This guy is sick. And he was on his personal profile, like legit. I saw him, he had like this motorbike and he'd always been nice 4x4, like tin thing. And he messaged me and he was like, right, I want to manufacture some stuff. I was like, sweet, let's go. Then he basically says me, what you want to design? So I was like, remember like six silk and that? Yeah, I say, remember, they're still massive, aren't they? Yeah, they're massive now. But back then it was a whole like look. We were going for aesthetics.

So many brands copied them.

Yeah. And I did.

Yeah. Like I used to be amazed that people bought that sort of brand. It was just never for me like the massive logo, like it's huge. Yeah. Everywhere.

They used to, to like, it used to be so the like thin there stuff, I don't know if you have.

It was the whole like Geordie Shore aesthetic.

It was.

So many brands came and went in that. Yeah.

But like them brands nowhere to be seen now because that's, that was such a niche type of thing.

Yeah, it was like Spice Boys.

Yeah. But yeah, the whole scammy basically was like, right, I'll make these for you. I sent him a load of like six hook stuff pictures. And I was like, yeah, can we just do something like this? Move the panel across there, blah, blah, blah. He's like, yeah, cool, let's do that. I just. Every day I'd get like a message off him saying, like, basically, like, not grooming. That's a bit fucking extent. That's a bit of an extent. But he, like, kind of like wheel me in and just be like, crying this game. Yeah. And he's like, clever. Would send me pictures of like Jim King stuff where he obviously clearly bought it, shipped it to Pakistan.

Yeah.

Put it on a table and put like a pair of scissors next to it. Like we're working.

Oh, that's so true. There's much so. So many suppliers do that.

Yeah.

For every sort of product. Definitely. Yeah. Have you had that, like, type of yours, neon signs? They was trying to say they were making yellow pop and it was like, they clearly weren't because.

Is yellow pop like a big brand, were they?

Yeah, probably the. The biggest one now. They had the best reviews.

So what about yours?

Not very good.

They get them proven, though.

I haven't looked. It's not my problem anymore.

No, that's all good then. Yeah. So he was sending me all this, basically just filling me with shit. Filling with shit. And he was like, yeah, I thinking back of it, it was a bit fucking weird. He's like, oh, you're a young guy, man. You're doing your thing. I'm gonna have to fly you out when you come see the factory and all this shit. Yeah, obviously I was like, working this.

Job.

It'S a bit pg. But he was just fucking like on it all the time. Just like, yeah, man, let's do it. So I was like, all right, okay. Can I place an order with you? And he was like, yeah, let's do it. So he's like, I want Western Union.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Classic.

Big red flag, anything. Western Union is like, nah, don't touch it.

They collect it cash at their own, don't they?

Basically you pay, then they fucking collect the cash and they have like a receipt. And then once that receipts collected, it's like, now you're. You're not getting fuck all back. Yeah, I mean, so anyway, I remember my girlfriend at the time was like, you've never met this guy and you've given him this much money. I think it was, it was, it was free. 3,000 pound, which is back when you're fucking 16. 17 is fucking like ridiculous. Amount of money. And I just thought, yeah, do you know what this is? This is, this is the right thing to do. I want to buy stock because I used to buy a load of like blanks. Basically the whole blank stuff you'd print on it and you'd. I used to go to a fucking. Bless her really old. I say it lightly, really old woman who was like a tailor. He used to just like sew the labels in. But it got to the point where she was getting fed up with me, basically. I was always bringing stuff, bringing stuff. She was like, you're bringing me. It's a new sound. Like you're bringing me 30 hoodies. And I said, you're gonna bring me 10. So, yeah, basically it was the first step and I thought it was the first step in the right direction. Let's get some tracksuits made. Yeah, like these, like super stupid skinny fit type stuff. Like the whole, like Jim King era. Yeah, basically that whole, like Leon Scott, even though he's like smashing it now, but like that kind of.

Yeah, yeah.

Aesthetic. So went for it, basically. He was like, right, we'll do, we'll do 3,000. I've looked after you. It should have been 5,000, whatever. Because you're a friend. They say, my friend, you're my brother, My friend. Never met the guy, my friend.

Boss.

Yeah, boss. Hey, boss or hey, dear.

Yeah, that's China.

Yeah, they do that. They still do that now.

Yeah.

And yeah, basically sent in the money Western Union, remember going into NatWest, I was like, I can withdraw 3,000. Probably only about. About 3,100 pound in my account. And they were like, yeah, sure. I think if it's over a certain amount, they have to ask you, don't they? Like, what you using it for?

Yeah, yeah.

And she did. I think it was over. If it's over two and a half thousand, it's probably changed now it's over two and a half thousand. It was like, you have to say why? And I was like, I'm just using it for investment. And they're like, oh, what investment's this? I was like, oh, I had to blag it. I was like, oh, just with my family, okay, give you the money, pop down to the Western Union shop, walk in like a Madonna, slap fucking three grand on the desk. Just like, yo, just pay that to this guy. She was like, I remember it clearly. She looked at me and she went, before I press send on this, are you sure this isn't a scam? Just pressed a button. She pressed it and Then I thought, yes, like, this is like a game changer for us with it. We're on the up. Rang him straight away. I was like, what's his name? I was like, waka. I've just paid, mate. Paid mate. He's like, amazing, brother, my friend. My, my man. I'm gonna, I'm gonna get these made tomorrow. All this sweet. Put my phone down pocket, drove back, driving at a time. Drove, drove home, went on WhatsApp. He sent me a picture, he'd collected the money. And then a couple of hours later, his profile picture just went like white.

Yeah, blocks.

And I was like, oh, this is weird. Why does he change that? And so I went. I initially thought like, ah, he's nice. Change his profile picture, his phone's broke. So then I go on my. I went on Instagram, user not found. I was like, nah, this is a joke, surely.

Jesus.

User not found. And yeah, like fucking like that, mate. So my.

I was, no, it's the last year.

Yeah. I was like at the top thinking, it's a fucking game changer. This can have these tracksuits made. And then it was. The rug was fucking pulled underneath me. Fucking. Fucking good, man.

Like all these NFT projects I've actually got.

Are you into all that?

Jack off camera is very into all that.

Are you into it? Yeah, you know, I'm not.

Well, I'm not into it now. I mean, it's just not my main thing. I mean.

No, but it's like I read about it. Yeah. You can't help it. It's always on fucking Twitter. Like money Twitter and that shit.

Yeah, Money Twitter is interesting.

That's another one. Taylor's a good guy to follow. You probably follow him, Colty, bruh.

Yeah, I do follow him. Yeah. I had a tweet go viral the other day.

I might have seen it.

I got 110,000 organic reach with 800 followers. Tweet about my ex girlfriend.

That was the one I saw. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I barely tweet.

Yeah.

I didn't just give a Twitter like six months ago. And I was like, fuck, this is way better than Instagram.

Yeah. Cuz I think it's more like truthful.

It's hard, especially money to it because, well, like that side of Twitter, I guess I don't follow like random people.

No, no, but it's. Yeah, I think I did see that and I think you were saying like, it's alright, basically.

Yeah. Because I'm just a deep fucker.

Best way to be, mate.

Yeah.

Raw, honest, open like how you are on the podcast. That's why Admire this is because you kind of. You're not kind of very like. You beat around the bush. You just be like, yeah, this is what it is.

Quick break. Picking up from where we were. So, yeah. Fucking scam. That. That's pretty heavy. I feel like that happens to everyone to some extent in the early days. I've definitely been scammed a few times. Yeah.

Like completely fucking gone.

Yeah. Rug pull spec from a Chinese supplier for midnight, actually. But before I properly started that, I had to start again like five months later because all the shit they delivered was like plastic, basically, when it's meant to be like stainless steel. And it went black under the. Like if you wear it in water. So obviously no one would fucking want it, but.

But did you not know that? So you'd sent the stuff out to customers.

Yeah, send the stuff out. But obviously the stock they delivered to the 3PL wasn't what I'd ordered, basically.

That's the thing with 3PL. True. Do you know what I mean? You can't. Don't grind. It's got. It's fucking amazing. Free pl. The stuff. Like the speed. They can do stuff. But you would. How did you know that? It was shit.

Bad reviews, people sending pictures.

I was gonna say. But that would have took at least a few weeks.

Yeah. Yeah, I suppose. Yeah. But I mean, I guess that happens to everyone to some extent.

Yeah. You learn from it though, innit?

So coming back to that, then, like. So you're. Let's like speed up the journey a little bit then. So from 17, dropped out of college, whatever you want to call it. A levels. And then what happens over, like the next. I guess like two to three years, Like, I guess, like, better question. When did you start, like, running. I guess paid ads.

Paid ads.

And when did. Was that like a time? Was it really very gradual or was that like a year where things.

Just remember it fucking clearly. It was literally the same year as doing the Aaron stuff. So would have been 17, 18, because we did like a retainer with that company. Was Aaron's manager. So you'd have like, you pay him a retainer of X amount a month and you'd have. I had fucking Scotty T wearing the stuff.

Was he called, like, B.L. black or something?

Yeah, I'm still friends with him now. Blvk.

Yeah, blvk. I did a few promos there.

Yeah. I'm good friends with K, who runs it now. He's doing a whole fight Fight Academy type thing getting fighters in and putting on events and he does. He manages Charlie Sloth as well.

Oh yeah.

Which is. I wouldn't know certain people are. But yeah, he used to have all them type of people and I remember just thinking the brand is only going to get. So I think I noticed like not sales dipping but like every time these influencers post they wouldn't be as big as that whole hour in time the year got on. Yeah, they kind of like worn off and then I just thought shit, I don't want to be a one trick pony and rely on that. What else can I do? Then it was a friend of like one of my best friends who models for the brand still. He's been modeling, modeling for the brand for years. He introduced me to a guy called Dan, Dan Farrow who he was was doing out this whole like online marketing stuff. Never had a client or anything and he was like I think we were just having a coffee or something one day and he was like oh I'll do your ads for you. I was like alright, sweet. There we go. Boom.

Yeah.

And then fucking from there. He's. He's still doing it now and it's like fucking yeah, it's mad.

So is he full time or is it just like freelance?

Freelance pretty much. But he's like. He's freelance but he works for a brand like it's his own. He's fucking puts honestly. I mean the effort he puts into it is fucking unbelievable. Like he's. He. I would say without this type of stuff and effort he's put in remedy wouldn't be whereas because he's just fucking like he does a creative, some of the creative as well. He's just fucking so clever. Honestly mates. Fucking legend.

Yeah. So is that. Which channels are you running on? I get well then and now so I assume I was googling Facebook originally.

Not even Google, just Facebook, just purely Facebook and Insta and it'd be a case of like I don't even know. I think we'd probably spend like fucking like 30 quid a day fucking. And you think it was shitload of money and then obviously slowly build up, build up, build up. But yeah, just fucking that. But obviously now so many different platforms as you were Snapchat, Tick Tock, fucking everything.

So you run in across everything right now like TikTok, Snapchat.

Not as much Tick Tock. Nah, that's meant to be quite good though.

Yeah. Older audience. I think it's good for like homeware shit. Yeah, it did run quite a Lot.

On there for that, but good.

Yeah, it does all right. Wasn't as good as Google off Instagram.

Do you think Google's. I don't. I. I do.

I like Google. I spent more with Neon on Google than Instagram. Like two million quid in a year and got like a three and a half hours, which is ridiculous. But that's because it's a higher. The. I don't know, it's very intent based. Like people want a sign, they search for a sign. It's less like an impulse thing.

And I mean so like you're.

You don't buy £300. I'm seeing the first ad, genuinely speaking.

Whereas with clothing someone. Yeah, I need a new shirt. Boom. Yeah.

So do you not run Google now?

Yeah, yeah, we do now.

Just not originally.

But not originally. No. That was only probably in the last two years. Yeah. But basically it's mainly Facebook Insta. Because it was. That was kind of all I knew really. That's not. That was that.

And how is the spend split now then, as a percentage across platforms?

Snap.

Pretty technical here. People want to hear this shit.

Snap. I don't know. I don't know the exact numbers. I'm not really a numbers like type of guy, but Snap do quite a lot on. And then Facebook, Insta and then Google. Not. Not much really between. I think recently a lot of our. It's been weighted towards Snap. That's for our audience. But yes, that works really well. Like, especially with the. Like we create a lot of UGC type content.

Yeah.

And that just seems to like work well. I'll swipe up and then. Yeah, very, very interesting.

Yeah.

So I think that's my audience.

Yes. Who would you say the audience is that primarily 1825.

Really? 1825 or 26.

Yeah. Too old to be wearing this, but yeah.

And we notice. I notice like a lot recently there's been like some of the tags we've had on. On Instagram a lot more like not old people, but people like my age.

Yeah.

And I always feel I'm getting. I get worried because I feel like, oh, when I get to 30, am I going to be making clothes for youngers or am I gonna be making clothes for me?

Yeah, that's an interesting question actually then. So is that the way you've approached it up to now? You've just made shit that you like and obviously people that like your style buy it pretty much. And you think that will continue to be the case rather than.

Yeah.

Thinking you've got the 18 to 25. And when you're 30, eventually target 18 to 25.

Yeah, it's really hard to think because then you feel like as a business, if you know your audience, stick to it. But then I feel like I kind of. I'm basically very emotionally attached to the business where it's like, if I wear after eight years. Yeah, it's like, like a baby in it. If I wear it and if it looks good, I'll be like, yeah, man, this is. That's what we're going for. But like a lot of my friends who run fashion brands as well, they're kind of like, they'll see what's selling in America or something and they'll be like, right, let's get this in. But like, if I don't like a certain type of thing or I can't see my ideal customer in my head wearing it, I'll be like, it's not gonna work. It could work. It probably would work, but I feel like you've got to be 100% down for IT products.

Yeah, I think that as well. Like, personally, I could only ever work on shit that I was a customer of, like, say. Whereas obviously some people. That's not the case. Like, I've got a mate who I often. Who's one of the biggest beasts ever. It's only 22 actually, or maybe 23 nearly. But he runs a brand aimed at middle aged black women and he's a young white male. And I've said to him, like, how does that work? But for him, he just likes the process of building the brand more than he likes the product or any product, because he can.

Yeah, he's a brand builder and just.

Likes, yeah, fucking genius. Like, the brand's incredible. But yeah, I just thought it was quite funny because it's stark contrast to doing some of that you yourself, like, which I think is probably where most people have to start.

But then I feel like maybe I should kind of be a bit more adventurous with the stuff if, you know, I mean, in terms of like, yeah, maybe I wouldn't wear it. But if I know like certain type of T shirt style is generally, I wouldn't wear it now with Y necks. Yeah, like that. If maybe if that was on Top.

Man too for ten pounds.

Yeah. Literally a peacock.

Yeah.

If that's popular, then maybe I should do it. But then I just feel like, I don't know. I think because I'm so involved in fashion and I just love all that, like, stuff. You get what I mean?

Yeah. So what does the Team and setup look like now then. So just like coming up to speed. We've probably skipped like years of shit, but because you've been in it so long, probably gone for hours.

Whatever, mate. Mum. Mum, who I mentioned before was a teacher. So she used to teach and she'd get to the point where I'd be like, oh, like this job is like. But she's been doing it like 30 years or something. She's like, this job is not what it was when I first started. Yeah, I want to quit. I was like, mom always. I'd always used to say as a joke like, oh, I'd love you to work for me. I'd love you to work for me. She's very organized, hands on. She can like. She basically like runs my. Not runs my. But like tells me this is what we're gonna do. And like, so she's very like, go ahead person. So I was like, yeah, let's. All right then, come work for me. I think it was around October 2018 time she said she was like, ryan, we're going to tell Mr. I can't remember his name. Mr. So and so I'm gonna, I'm gonna have me noticing basically. And then she was expecting. I think with a teacher you have to have like a longer notice period.

Yeah.

But then he was like, no, you can, you can go next week before half term. So she did. And then ever since then, man works.

Three years ago, I fucked you in 19 and she was working for you, mate.

It was so mad, so sick.

What does she do for you? What's her.

I say logistics, but basically like pack orders, keep on top of like unit and stuff. Stock, stock management. All the stuff which I don't really want to be doing. They're basically. Yeah, that type of stuff which is perfect. But it's sometimes hard because obviously the relationship with your mom.

Yeah, I was gonna say I personally couldn't do it, but maybe I've got a bad relationship. Just probably it's been a stressful relationship. My parents, I'll say because of the whole. Just differ on things.

Your fellas, quick one. You may or may not have noticed there's been a bit of merch, so to speak, in recent episodes. We've got two different things. We've got some of the retro style OG neon beach posters that designed like four years ago you may have seen on my Instagram. And then we've got some. Some of the best selling OG viral style neon signs that basically did start that entire craze about two years Ago now. So yeah, if you want to add something to your home office, your living room, just anywhere sick basically that you want to add that extra thing to and support the channel, then you can check that out. Link is in the bio midnight co shop and yeah, just an aesthetic item to compliment the process, I suppose. Cheers for watching and enjoy the rest of the pod.

Even like just. Even just like our views on like Covid. I don't even get me started. Probably a lot of people can relate. They watch this but as in what.

So you can't. I did see you too. I did see it. I did see it too.

Yeah, well yeah, that's.

That's contrary mad that though too fair.

Yeah, we've been arguing about that. But I mean I don't know. Some people get on really well. I've just always found it an amicable at times relationship challenging because of the whole.

You do this, they did that during the work or it's nothing to do with the work or you just generally.

Yeah, I think ultimately is. Yeah. I think comes down to difference of opinion. Like I. I won't. I'm not willing to change the way I view the world to please people.

Best way. Yeah.

It's just sad if it's family or close friends or whatever. But.

Yeah, but sure. Life in it. If you think about it. It's your life at the end of the day if you wanna.

Yeah. I just think more people need a backbone. I know this is going on. This isn't to do with my parents to be fair this. But I just. I don't know. I just.

Yeah.

This is kind of topical to like what we were saying before about like the whole wearing masks again thing.

Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know. I just think if this isn't a conspiracy or like anti Covi. The other letter because we get banned on YouTube probably. But yeah, I don't know. I just. Where am I going with this? Yeah, I just think more people need to actually have a. An actual opinion on things. Not just regurgitating what they say on screens and thinking it's fucked.

But I was thinking about this on the train.

I just don't get it. I honestly don't.

Is in what like I don't get.

The mass adoption of ludicrous rules.

So. Have you traveled in Covid times?

Yeah, multiple times.

Did you have to wear a mask or did you not wear one?

I'd wear one on plane. So if I'm not like I'm not. I'm not an idiot. Like I'm happy To.

Yeah, you're not anti mask now, but you just feel like.

I'm not anti mask. I'm just, I'm anti. Like, where does this go? Long term? It's not just Covid. It's like just other things in life as well. I don't know.

As in, like, do you feel like, for example, the media will just tell you what you want here, manipulate you? I don't know.

Like, I just, I've never met, in my personal opinion, a super successful person that watches the news a lot.

No, no, because they live on their own terms, they do what the they want. Exactly.

By the same token, I've never come across a super successful person that agrees with, on everything, with the masses. Like, just do the maps. Because it's basic logic. If everyone thinks something, it's probably wrong.

Yeah, exactly. And that's why, like, everyone, anyone in this 1% group has done. They've gone the other way, haven't they? They've got off the beaten track.

Yeah. I don't know, like, yeah, I feel like people are like, money, Twitter, they force that rhetoric a bit. Like, oh, I'm so different. To the point where they're like, they just. I think the guy you mentioned before, someone like him. Yeah, but maybe it's someone else, but someone like that, that they put like a tweet, this is gone a fucking tangent. And it's like a picture of like just normal lads on a night out smiling. And they were like, these guys aren't. Aren't hustlers. Like, I was like, what? They're just fucking having a good time. They go, so like, I'm a maverick against the masses that they just actually seem stupid. Whereas I'm not saying that all, I'm just saying certain things that.

But like, that's going back to what you're saying then about people having like, fun and that. Like, some of my friends would never understand this whole industry, this whole ecom type stuff. They don't get it and that's fine. But I would never disregard them. If they're happy doing their work in the week and then getting fucked up on the weekend, that's. I'm cool with that. That's fine. But I'd never drag someone down about, oh, you should be doing this. Yeah, that's wrong. You should just do. You let them do them. Somebody doesn't affect you. I mean, yeah, like your friends, I don't know, obviously your friends, you've got an econ, but surely you've got friends who don't do Econ.

Yeah. Yeah. I was with a bunch of last weekend where I drank way too much and started texting my ex. Texting my ex girlfriend. Very bad idea. Yeah but that was like a one day breakdown. But yeah you can definitely have friends that are doing different shit completely. Get out. Did you find like did you lose? I guess. How lonely was it just because you left school fucking young to pursue doing this and I guess to finish the previous question. Well like who else is in the team? Like do you now have people obviously a lot around you?

Fair. So like I mentioned before, Dan does all the creative ads type stuff. Another lad, Matt again who does all that type stuff. Creative, my cousin, she helps been a legend this like whole Black Friday period. Like helping my mom basically do all that and cs like customer type stuff.

Yeah.

I'd say again Dom, I mentioned before does the modeling. I think anyone who's involved in this, my business just goes above and beyond. Doesn't like even though like it might be modeling but like he'll help with creative. He'll help with like fucking just other ideas and stuff like because he's a friend as well, he'll like put his input in.

Yeah.

Lucky. A girl who lived on my road, she, she does a lot of work for us as well. Basically just like fucking. It's not family. That's a bit fucking cringe that way. But you know, I mean everyone's just fucking sound. It's just great.

Yeah.

Lucky.

Yeah. Sick and then like day to day, what's the standard day like? Or is it not a standard day or I guess like an illustrative day.

Illustrated day would kind of just be like the normal. Like I do a lot of running. Like it's like a lot of running where I live. Countryside is like shitload of mountains. So one of my best mates is.

A cross country spec.

Yeah, not like that running. Yeah, like a lot of like we'll go down to like sand dunes and stuff and we'll do dunes, we'll run up mountains and just that kind of whole like freedom fucking outdoors, like not giving a fuck type of stuff. So my best mates is a pro MMA fighter. So it's kind of like his fucking discipline and mindset is just a fucking joke. Like he's so like if he was here now he'd just be like have you seen that? I don't know if you, if you're into all that type of stuff but Kobe Bryant, there was a video of him at like I think it was Chris Ross.

Yeah. Yeah.

So he's literally like that, like I'll be telling him something and just be thinking and I go, yeah, like do you know? I mean that's kind of rubbed off on me. Like I'm very not. I just think, I just think a lot of stuff and like focus and I believe in that. That's fucking important. Focus. Yeah. So fitness type of stuff. Wake up, go to the gym and all that type of stuff. Check your emails, save. I've got a shoot. Because we try and shoot quite often because content dates, like content gets old. Like stuff we've shot. Yeah, definitely like last month is old now plan stuff like that. Any exciting stuff coming up, I get a lot more because I'm not doing it on purpose, but I'm doing a lot more. Like showcasing myself for the brand.

Yeah.

Not personal brand, but I guess you could call it that.

It is, yeah.

So people get a lot of people message me and like, oh, they want to know more about myself or they want to know more about the product. And I'm kind of just like do that, talk to suppliers. Just I feel at the moment I'm doing a lot and I feel like it's as good as it is. In order for me to grow, grow the brand gonna have to just let go of certain things. Delegate more, Delegate more in order for us to expand and grow.

Yeah, definitely. So on that then obviously still fucking young. Do you have like a strict vision of where you want to go with the brand or is it. Was it more a case of just kind of go with it and see what happens?

I mean like, you know, everyone will be like, oh yeah, like they envision the whole I want to get to this fucking level. I want to do this and that and like, yeah, I, I do believe you should have a goal and like an end goal. But then I feel like it's so important to kind of just sounds fucking cringe now but like enjoy the process. Like legit fucking because like day to day stuff. Like if I focus on the end goal of selling remedy for example, or fucking whatever with it then like stuff like this. I think it's great to talk to people like yourself or you know the little messages you get so and so like I get sent pictures of like people wearing the stuff or say if someone's on, like someone went to a festival and they sent a picture to me and stuff like that. That's all like the process or the shit that goes wrong process. But when you get to the end destination, if you forgot about that, it'd be fuck all yeah.

So if hypothetically, someone offered you 10 million quid today, would you say and he couldn't work on another fashion brand again?

No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't take it because I'm just so. I don't know, I. Maybe I should be more like money orientated, focused now. But I'm just very like.

No, I don't think you should. I think. I think a lot.

I just love it. I love it, man.

If you enjoy the process, you've already won, I think.

I think that's it. And obviously there's days where it's shit. You probably have it with your day and night. You think, like, I saw a good quote the other day. It was like, are you really having a bad day or is you just had a shit five minutes of your day?

Yeah, like, that's like a bit of cbt. Cognitive behavioral therapy.

Yeah.

Way to think about things.

But it's. It's like, for example, with a bit of a hard one to compare it to. But like with your ex girlfriend, whatever, that's probably been on your mind all the time. So when you're trying to work.

Yes, on my mind.

Yeah, exactly. Like, I've been through. I know it's like. But when you're like trying to work, whatever, and you think, oh, no, I shouldn't now. Okay, let's focus. Yeah, what if. And I mean, you gotta.

100%. Yeah. Like, it's just reality.

Do you find it hard, though, like, to focus when you've got that in the back?

You fucking. Yeah, this is like. I mean, there's fucking bigger fish to fry. But I guess recently. Yeah, like. Yeah, I think everyone's just. Yeah, everyone goes through that shit, I suppose. I don't know. I think, like having like an event like that, though, like just like a personal event or whatever and whatever it is, breakup or. I don't know.

Is that trauma?

Yeah, some sort of shit. I don't know. I think it shakes you up and it often makes you more, don't know, more creative and more like, driven again. I feel like the fucking spartan comes out within. It's like.

Do you feel like a nan?

I felt in the past few weeks, like the fucking dangerous character within me is like coming back sort of thing.

It's a good or bad.

In a good way. Yeah. I don't know. I'm definitely driven more by like, negativity than positivity.

It's like the doubters and shit like that.

Yeah. I've always had a chip on my shoulder sort of Thing I don't think a lot of people do. Like, I'm just very aware that. I don't know, I feel like the most switched. I don't know. Do you know what I mean? Like, some people are driven by, like, they love the process and they're always happy all the time. I don't know.

I say that lightly. I'm not. I'm not fucking happy all the time, bro. Fucking out, like.

But I mean, like, I like going to the gym and putting on, like, fucking evil music. Not evil music, just like heavy metal, heavy type shit. Like, proper heavy shit.

I like to feel like that as.

Well and like, kind of the fuck you mentality. Like, that drives me more than. I want to enjoy the process. Of course I want to enjoy the process, but I don't mind having this. Like, does that make sense?

No, it does. It's like a contrast. And I like that because you're basically saying, like, you know, every. Not every day is like, sunshine and that, like, you want to have this thing where it's like in the back of your head, grind going at you, going at you. Like, fuck them. Like, I want to not prove them wrong.

Yeah. So it's almost just. Yeah, if it's them, whatever. Like, definitely past that. Like, proving, like, schoolmates or whatever, but, like, just to myself, almost, like. So I think when things change or go wrong, you've, like, either got a makes or break. It's like, I'm either going to be a little fucking loser and just out on this, or I'm gonna, you know.

Yeah, rightly so. Because I think I mentioned the other day I replied to your thing about, like, soy boys and shit like that, like.

Oh, yeah, well, yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

I reposted that thing aimed at a certain person.

Yeah. But it's. It's true, though, because if, you know, you've gone through this breakup, you could be like, oh, do you know what? Like, I don't know what the circumstances are, but say if she was like, I don't like that you do this stuff, this whole business stuff. All right, babe, no worries. I'm not gonna do it anymore. I want to be yours. I mean, because some lads do that and it's a bit. It's dangerous to be fair. They'll happily give up on a goal for someone else to please someone else not to fulfill themselves.

Yeah, you know, it's actually. I think this. Is this a good rabbit hole? But I think it's so relevant people that speak about enough because it's something so particularly relevant to entrepreneurs and yeah, in our case males, which is 99% of the fucking audience by the way. According to YouTube. Yeah, the whole girl thing. Right. Because on the Iman episode, which will have come out by now, but when we're recording. Hasn't come out. He spoke about his opinion of like the hierarchy of what's better for like focusing on your business and probably get it wrong. He said the worst is a toxic relationship.

Okay.

Better than that is being actively single. So like you're single but you're meeting new people, you talking to bears, whatever. Like the medium is like an okay relationship, like standard relationship. Better than that is monk mode single, where you don't. You don't pursue any new people, you just focus on your shit. And he said like the God level is like your wife who fucking allows you to be like Monk Mo but supports you when needed. I thought it was interesting.

So does that make you think, like, how would you compare that to your situation?

I say it was probably. Well, previously it was probably somewhere between toxic and average at times on the lower half of the. Whereas now, I don't know. I wouldn't call myself monk mode. I wouldn't say I'm like no fap. Yeah, I mean I'm definitely not no fap.

I've actually done that. I don't know if you ever have.

I have tried that. I did like three weeks before when I was in Bali. I could see through walls.

That's what they freaking make it sound like on Twitter.

Read it and stuff. Like fab stronauts.

I never read that.

But that's like a don if that's. If you do 365 days.

But.

But you have to be a school shooter and live in your mum's basement.

Pretty much. Yeah.

So not personally reached that milestone.

Didn't think it did anything of that. I just felt you just feel more.

Distracted by sexual dishonest. Yeah.

Cuz you're just like.

Yeah, it's true though. Yeah. Me, that's a whole of a rubber. Where was it going with this? I suppose I know you mentioned your current girlfriend. Can you speak about that on camera? No. But you said her friends don't like you because you work too much.

Yeah, I can talk about that. Yeah. They won't mind.

They won't mind.

And they're basically.

That's a bit of a weird dynamic.

Yeah, no, it is basically like if you're around me, I'm very like. Like it's fucking been hard for me to kind of like put that my phone down. Don't know if you're. This not for like. Because I want to go on Instagram. But like I always want to just. I don't know, it's like a fucking weird thing. Like just want it in my hand.

Oh, I thought you meant because your girlfriend was sexing you. No, no, she's tracking your location.

No, no, she ain't that bad. But I know some boys who do have that though. We have like their fucking girlfriends. Like on imessage when you can check people.

Yeah.

Weird shit.

Find my friends.

Yeah. So basically like everything. Everything's calm. Like been with her for on and off when I started the fucking brand. Like eight years.

Jesus Christ, that is long for that age.

So. But like obviously we've done the whole thing, broke up in other people and that type of thing. But yeah, she's cool, she's a good girl. But yeah, the whole thing with the friends, it's just like didn't like hate me or. She's kind of like. Because I'm always working, always, always head down, always head down, focused. It's like I think my current girlfriend would kind of want someone who's a little bit more not doing my thing. Basically someone who can give that attention time and that. Whereas I'm very selfish. I like being selfish. Not in like. I sound a prayer, but you have.

To be in like your twenties particularly.

Do you feel. Because obviously you're a few years older than me. Do you feel this is like some advice from you to me? Do you feel like you're being selfish now? My age is good. Or is it being a. You gotta find a balance or do you believe in that? I don't know.

I actually think I've definitely my view on this side of things. Definitely like the whole girls and like balance in trying to be an entrepreneur is definitely like matured. And I think a good one to watch based on this is Adam Reed, who's a year and a half older than me and much more successful.

Is he YouTube.

It was on my previous podcast.

Oh.

And he has that 30 million pound brand. And was that the dog stuff?

Yeah, it was sick.

But he's always kind of told. He's always sort of laughed at my previous idea that I want to be working all the time because he claims it like barely works. I mean he does work but like he's not like a 15 hour a day.

That's not his life.

He's like eight hour a day tops. But he's more successful than anyone else on the podcast, arguably. Why? Maybe not to fair, like tell them a pinch of salt in that sphere of eco.

I know you mean he might have. He literally probably found the perfect, perfect balance if there is a so called thing.

Yeah, I don't know. So, like, what's the point trying to make? I think, yeah, you have to be. I think there's a bit of a weird, like arguably like toxic phase that everyone goes through, particularly in their early 20s, I think, myself included, where you like. I don't know, you like, feel like you have to tell everyone that all you do is work. When actually. And I think by the way, you should probably do that for a while. But then I don't think it's sustainable. Like mental health wise, like relationship wise. Because I don't know, like. Yeah, like a ridiculous example is obviously like Jeff Bezos fucking, like, he says he like only works eight hours a day and all this stuff. I mean, obviously he's got to that level. Yeah, but that's later on.

That's what I was gonna say. That he seems to fucking forget about the fucking years and years and years he spent fucking grinding away.

Yeah, I think it's a balance. I don't know.

I believe in a balance though. No, that obviously there is a.

Not a 50, 50 balance, but a balance. I think, for example, like, I think you'd be more productive literally taking Sundays off and not looking at anything.

Would you do that? Do you do that?

I try and do that, yeah.

Can you do it?

Well.

Because bearing in mind your whole life is pretty much.

It's probably been easier in recent months because it's the first time in like five years where I've not actually had active revenue from any. From a business.

Oh, really?

Yeah, because I'm between stuff right now.

Ah, okay.

So one month. That's been fucking weird. I don't really like that, to be fair.

But not checking your Shopify on that anymore.

Yeah, literally not. Because there isn't anything right now. I'm just working on the new business.

Yeah, but that's like, obviously come back stronger and all that type of stuff eventually.

Yeah, but I suppose my point is I. I think now, like even going forward, I think having like Sunday off, for example, is better than trying to work seven days. I think it's because you'd have a better six days or like however the you split your time, whatever.

Yeah, no, no, you're right. Because if you're so solely focused on something, it's like if you're cooking something for too long, you burn It. But if you gradually, slowly cook it.

Yeah. A slightly more controversial point as well though. Like when I was like in my earlier twenties. Well I mean like pre girlfriend and stuff, but particularly like when I was like traveling full time back in the drop shipping days, like when I was like 21, 22 particularly.

It's like my age now basically.

Like we used to do some. I say we. It was like me and a bunch of other guys I'd met like yeah, we're like working hard and making money and stuff. But at the same time like I was like seeing a new girl every week, like going out some sick stuff. Like I don't know. I think. I'm not. I'm not convinced that like sacrificing like your entire early 20s to focus on stuff just on the idea that it's going to pay off later down like. What I'm trying to say is I don't think it's worth being a fucking virgin. Not literally but like, you know, I.

Get you not doing metaphorically. So for example, because there are some.

People that are like so focused, I feel like I. But they haven't spoke to a girl in a year and they're like 21. So what's going on? I don't know.

Yeah, no, I could be wrong.

But the most successful people in my eyes are people that master like every area.

Yeah, exactly. You look at fucking anyone who's got that like lifestyle where they've got the wife and they've got the fucking. The car and all that stuff. I think that's the fucking. The one. I'm really in it. But I've been guilty.

And just like the physical health as well. Like the amount of people that don't even like go to the gym.

Yeah, I find that fucked up.

I like do any exercise.

Yeah.

I would literally be suicidal.

Is in like you think exercises.

I think you have to like just to stay on an even keel. Like remotely.

Yeah, 100%. Because then as well, I feel like that helps you in terms of like physical health, fucking mental health, everything. If you're not fucking exercising. Like, how did you find lockdown for exercising? Because where were you in. Where were you in that lockdown?

Isn't that flat with the guys? Six flat, yeah.

And then a gym in there as well.

I stole some gym equipment from downstairs for six months. I said stole, I borrowed, I brought it back.

Is it? But you were able to work out?

I was able to lift weights and yeah.

And you felt good.

Luckily, yeah. Then I just used to go for Walks.

But whereas a lot of people, obviously last year, the gyms are short. I know my friend who I mentioned about the, the mma, he was like. Because his life is in the gym. It's like someone's saying.

Yeah, it's actually. So it's bad.

It's. It's bad because it's like. I know it's different.

It's.

It kind of happened. But it's like someone saying to you, you can't. Do we come anymore? I know. You know? Yeah, it's. Because that's your life. And it's like, yeah, it's pretty fucking mad. But yeah, exercise is key. But going back to the point you mentioned before about being focused, not doing certain things, I feel like I'm very. A cautious type of person that's maybe just being straight. I feel like, not in business, but I feel like. I feel like, ah, should I be doing that? Am I gonna. Is it gonna affect my, my brand or am I not gonna have to do this?

Like what, for example, like the whole.

Like, club type, going out type thing.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

I think a lot of that's bullshit, but I'm saying I think you should do that at some point in your life.

No, I've done it. I've done it. I've done all the whole, like, IP1 should do that.

Whoever, you know, anyone should do.

Because obviously I'm asking, because you're obviously a little bit older than me. You've done all that type of stuff.

Yeah, plenty of times. And it definitely does get old, but I think you have to. I think, like, most things in life, you've got. She should experience it.

But do you feel.

Not literally, like, don't do heroin because, you know, certain things feel fulfilled. What, by doing those things not fulfilled.

But you feel like, oh, that's good.

Yeah. I mean, I don't. I don't regret, like, doing like, stupid shit when I was younger.

No. Fuck, no.

Because that makes you, like, buying super cars or.

Yeah.

Wasting money, getting scammed in like. Like literals. Like. Well, strip clubs in, like, America.

Yeah, Yeah, I know.

You mean it's kind of. It's just stories in it.

Because that's the thing. Like, life is stories 100. Because your stories. You're telling me stories. I'm telling a few. And you're learning off me. To me telling you stories. Yeah, that's how, like the podcast. That's how it grows.

Yeah, exactly.

But that I feel like I could obviously. I want to get you on my podcast. I Feel like I could just pick your brain all day, but, you know, with the whole, like, me saying about fulfill, not fulfillment, but kind of, like cautious type thing, basically. I'm into cars, love all that type of stuff. Had, like, amazing. I'd like, you know, a 35.

Oh, yeah, yeah, I saw that. Yeah, that's it. I used to have an A45.

Sound sick then.

Yeah. Such a check. But it's cool.

Yeah. But I wanna. I feel like I need to get a fucking car out my system. Is it a thing?

Is it a case of. I think that's science as a man might be sexy saying that. But. Yeah, I. Yeah. Saying that to a few other people that I know, like. Yeah, just fucking get the supercar, whatever it is.

Yeah. Cause you've had. I've seen it.

Then you'll realize that it's not, like, cool, but you'll have had it and it was cool.

Yeah. Cause I miss. I haven't got the A35 anymore. I just got a van swapped in for a van more practical. But then I, you know, I see fucking. It's a bit. Whatever. It's a bit not controversial, but, like, I do get a bit confused when I see people who aren't obviously haven't got. I say haven't got a good job. I didn't mean that lightly. But, like, they're, like, scraping by to try and afford a car.

Yeah.

I mean, get.

I mean, that's. Yeah, that's the culture we live in these days.

Yeah. It's like fucking. We. A lot of our revenue is from Klarna.

Yeah.

And stuff like that. Yeah.

Klarna's controversial. Yeah.

They had a lot of issues in there in terms of, like, they were saying it with credit and stuff.

Yeah. It is a mad business that is valued at like, 50 billion.

Something mental. He was on them.

Stephen Barlow's podcast. I watched it. Yeah.

It's gonna be interesting. But go back to the point. Do you think I fucking need to get out my system or just, like, find all the avenues to be like, you're into cars.

Yeah. I was always super passionate about cars, so I bought a car. Like, when I could afford one. I bought a load of stupid ones.

Yeah. They were fucking nicer.

I'd get one again, like, genuinely, I'm over it right now.

I mean, so do you not even think, like. Like, like I said, I drive my van, feel like, yes, it's fine. More practical, helps me carry stuff. But then I feel like I see a nice car go past. I'm like fuck, you know, I mean.

Yeah, I mean I think yeah, there's probably like certain things in life that you should do just to get out of your system. And I think for a lot of men like a fancy car and a fancy watch are probably some of them.

But is that you don't think that's nowadays as sad as it is?

If you're into that.

Yeah.

And you can afford it.

But you don't think that is the two. Two things pick up on sad thing. Because I feel like a lot of lads do that just for women, I think to kind of like doesn't get girls. I don't think I was gonna say did it help anyway?

I think it's probably helps on like a dating profile. It's just.

Would you do a lot with Tinder in the past?

Yeah.

Like what was the profile picture of you on a car and that wouldn't.

Be the main picture? Probably. I don't know. Probably it's on the inside. But yeah, true. I think someone like that it just basically like not to be too nerdy about it, but just like girls and dating are the same as an ecom funnel.

But that's the thing.

It's the same shit.

Buying a drink, impressive as in like.

Just to break it down simply, like think we and Jack. Like if you're a single guy and you want to get fit girls, whatever it is, whether that's through online dating, through owner bar, whatever, like multiple mediums, you know, you can think of that as like Instagram ads, Google Ads, whatever. Get in front of a number enough people. So like go and speak to girls, whatever it is, you know, most of them probably statistically, they won't reply or not interested. No, I. E. Like you're not getting 100% purchase conversion.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can have to reach out, you.

Know, some you'll get a number that's like an add to cart, whatever you want to call it. Someone go to checkout, maybe that's a date. And some might purchase.

There you go, boom.

So and then some might become a recurring purchase, you know, like a subscription. So. But it's the same principles.

Everything is the similar type of things.

So how the fuck do we get onto that?

Don't know, mate. But I'm enjoying it so far.

Yeah. But I think it's good because like dating advice on this podcast as well.

Yeah, well, I find it interesting in terms of how you're like I say because obviously you're a little bit older than me, only not a lot. It's like a few years Ancient. Ancient. I can see the gray coming through. But like that's why I was just asking you because where I'm. Where I'm from it's very like no one's kind of doing what I'm doing in this whole like e commerce space. I don't know anyone up my area other than my friend Dom who does his own stuff. But like that's why there's like you say, I can imagine all your people around you. This is E Comm. Is their lives. But it's nice to speak to someone like yourselves who's a little bit older than me, who's lived. I'd say you've lived a lot. You've lived well.

Yeah, I've done a lot of.

For sure and I think that's a good way to be. It's quite, it's good. Good to hear someone like me who's not like I'm not Molly coddled up there but like I'm away from like the whole like out stuff like lifestyle, money type stuff. It's very. Where I live is very plain fuck all.

It's interesting you say that because that's exactly the same story as the two of a clothing brand guys I've had on the pod.

Really? Yeah.

They both live at home where they're from and, and they like that. Whereas for me I would hate that. I just never go on with it.

A lot of my friends I needed.

More like stimulus and more opportunities and more.

More risks.

I don't know, maybe I'm just quite a high risk person though.

Risk, yeah. But high risks, no reward in it. I mean, yeah, I say you gotta be. But like I've took risks. I took stupid risks earlier this year talking about scamming. They got scammed again. But like it's not. I. I can say, I can say it on here. When does this come out? When's this come out?

Five weeks.

Oh fine, fine. It'll all be resolved by then. Basically. Chris Brown, one of his guys as team, which isn't his team by the way, like pretty much scam me to be fair. But it's all like getting sorted now. Mate is basically so guy I know who is like a. I don't know if you see him on Instagram. They're just always with celebrities. Like I don't know if they just leech off celebrities. Yeah they're just all. I don't, I don't even know. They just, they don't bring any value or anything. They just are this well Connected people and they're just always partying, whatever. I don't know how they fund the lifestyle, but guy I knew on Instagram, again, social media, basically, you should just message me saying, hey, bro, like your stuff. And just like started chatting on that. But he's from Portugal. So anyway, he was like, I help brands basically get on, like, famous people, celebrities. He was saying, like, Neymar, Skepta, all these people, obviously. Yeah, pretty much like Wheelie me and Wheelie Me. And anyway, that was about two years ago. He did actually get me a unit of football on that. Yeah, I am and I'm not. I've got friends who play, but got me. Camavinga is Eduardo Camavinga.

I don't know.

Yeah, he's some fucking, like, Donny from France who's like, Big Dog. He got him in my stuff, to be fair. So I thought, right, this guy's legit. Anyway, cut a long story short. Basically he was like, I've got an opportunity for you. Do you want to have Chris Brown wear your stuff? I was like, well, yeah, obviously. That's fucking amazing. I said, sick. Yeah, because I feel like with someone like him, everyone knows who Chris Brown is. Yeah, my fucking granddad knew who he was. He's ah. I've heard him on the radio. So like, someone like him just gives your brand so much credibility. I thought, yeah, it's a fucking sick. Let's do it. Let's go for it. Let's do it. He was like, right, sick. I'm in Mykonos. We're all in Mykonos. On the. This was only like a few months ago in August. Fly out, bring your case and we'll get it done there. And then you'll get to meet him. You'll get. We'll get him in your clothes, all this shit. I was like, yeah, sweet. Sick.

Yeah.

And then obviously there's the. But it's gonna cost you. I was like, okay. And there was two parts of mine I was thinking, right, number one, yes, it'd be great opportunity to fucking get him in the stuff. You gotta think of your brand. It's gonna look great. If someone. It's like a talking point, isn't it? Oh, Chris Brown was your stuff. Oh, yeah. And then the other part was in me was like, I always say about influences and famous people, do they really like. He clearly doesn't like my stuff.

Yeah.

If he wants. He doesn't know. He didn't know anything about it in any way, but he clearly doesn't like my stuff. If he's going to charge me for it. I mean, it's like. But anyway, I just thought, right, okay, it, let's go for it. And then obviously got down to numbers. I won't say on camera what the number was, but it's not like crazy money, but like, it's enough to be like, question, like, what the fuck?

Five figures.

Five figures? Yeah. No, it wasn't. Definitely not six figures.

Like that.

Five figures, basically. I will tell you, it's nothing crazy, but it was enough, like I say to be like, that's my money. Stop fucking about. Anyway, I get all the. Go ahead. Like, yeah, I get added to a group chat with Chris Brown's manager. Chris Brown's stylist. Fucking lil. Not Lil baby. Da Babies. Videographer. I still got them on my phone now. Like all them names and that. Yeah. And basically they were just chatting like, right, they're sending me the schedule for Mykonos. So they were Mykonos. I was in the uk. They're all flying over, private jet and all that stuff. I used to follow their accounts on Instagram. So they added me to this chat. They were like, yo, what's. What's up, James from England? It's James from England. I was like, hi, yeah, on this group chat and they were saying, right, obviously Chris, Chris wants to wear your stuff. He loves your shit. Obviously. He's never probably seen my shit. He loves your. He wants to wear your. He thinks it's sick. He loves that whole British aesthetic, all this. I was like, yeah, amazing. Course I'll look after Chris and all this. They're like, yeah, bring five figures cash with you. Cash, yeah, cash, yeah, exactly. As soon as I said that, I was like, nah, I don't, I don't pay cash. I don't know, I think cash anyway, bro. They were like, right, yeah, we need the cash. I was like, I can only do PayPal or bank transfer, whatever, so any. I fly over to Mykonos, did the whole, like, went to Santorini because it was basically like a last minute thing. It was like, I think it was like a Wednesday night. I was like, oh, by the way, it's. It's on. It's on Saturday. So.

Yeah, So I was like.

And obviously traveling in Covid isn't easy because you have to book tests and like that.

Yeah.

So it was a whole case of that. Booked the stuff, flew over to Santorini, Mykonos, blah, blah, wherever. Landed anyway. Landed. They were staying in this. Have you been to Mykonos before? No, have I Been.

No, I think I've been somewhere near. I don't know. I don't think I've.

Beautiful place.

I've been. Greece. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a good mate, it's a beautiful place.

This is anti. I know that holiday. Yeah.

Was it.

Yeah, 2014.

Wow.

Yeah, a long time ago.

So, yeah, flew over. They're staying in this hotel called Cavo Tago, which, Google it later was. It's just insane. Crazy. Like basically the suite they were staying in was €11,000 per night. And it was like, I'll show you videos later, mate. It's fucking unbelievable. Like private swimming pool in their suite. Yeah.

Oh yeah, that did happen. That wasn't a scam.

No, no, that's. This is. This is when I get to me, this is the fucked up thing, right. So obviously flew over and I stayed in my use my. I thought it was a baller, mate. It's probably pennies to you, but I used my Amex use my points to pay for like everything, which was. I thought, why not? Yeah, flew over. I didn't stay in the same hotel as them, but I got to the hotel, they were all. Chris wasn't there at this point. It was like the people in the group chat, like, like I said, the baby's videographer.

Entourage.

Yeah, hanging off him. Basically. They're all there outside smoking shisha in this like outdoor pool, like infinity pool place. I remember getting into the taxi to go to the hotel. I said, oh, can I go to Cabo Tago? And he looked at me and he went, big money there, man. Like apparently it's like a place where it's just like. It's like the wealthiest place in Mykonos to be. It's really nice place, by the way. Get there, meet all them. They're like, oh, hey, what's up? What's up? What's up? Chris is with his. His girlfriend, blah, blah, blah. You come see him later. He'll come later. You'll come see. Because we're going to his apartment. Obviously had this big fuck off case for me. Anyway, this is other guy who was there called Ray, who was from. This is where the scam gets weird. It was from a company in Netherlands who was also contacted by the same guy for the same deal as me. So he was gonna put his brand on Chris and I was gonna put my brand on Chris. So five figures for me, five figures from him to these guys, which is great for them. And we obviously thought, like I just thought, I've met this guy, he runs his brand. He's getting Chris in his stuff. Great for him. I'm gonna. Chris in my stuff. Great for me. Going to their apartment, the villa was just a fucking joke. Like, I'll show you pictures of it was fucking mad. Like, I was, like, speechless. That's when, like, moments like that, you start thinking, like, wow, how the fuck is a boy from mold ended up in a place like this? Nuts. Like, fucking infinity pool. Like, three floors, like, stone everywhere. Like, massive tables. Crazy. Put all the stuff on the table. Like, my clothes for Chris. And his stylist was like, yeah, I'll have this. Probably not this. We're gonna keep it anyway, just in case. I was like, yeah, sure, have it all. Whatever. He's like, oh, do you mind if we have it? Can we have your suitcase as well, just to carry this stuff? I was like, yeah, this is like. I didn't care at that point. I was just like, yeah, do it, whatever, have it. I kept saying to get my. The guy who invited me over, that was his name. But him, I kept saying, like, oh, yeah, can you. What's the crap with Chris? Is he gonna come? Because my flight was like, the day after. I only booked it for, like, a short trip. I was like, he's coming, he's coming, he's coming. And he's just like, show me, like, screenshots. I didn't realize there were screenshots until later on. He showed me screenshots of Chris on imessage, saying, yeah, bro, I'm just downstairs. I'll be there soon, I'll be there soon. And all this. I thought, yeah, cool. Basically, the guy who was running the show, like, big fucking, like, tall cunt. Like, I thought you were tall, but fuck me. He was like, fucking giant Jesus. But then, like, I'm proper, like, American guy, so they're like, big as fuck. They've got these massive fucking chain on.

Yeah.

And there's me with my fucking. Like that, like, yo, what's good? He's like, right, wanted to sort this deal out. And he's like, obviously, you're not. You didn't bring cash, did you? And I knew at this point, I was like, nah, I didn't bring cash. He was like, oh, PayPal, friends and family, me. I was like, yeah, okay, I'll do that. I'll do that. PayPal, him, the money, like, straight up. Just went on PayPal, transferred him X amount. And he was like, sweet, man. We're gonna get this done. We're done tonight. We're near the club with Chris. Chris is going to come here, then we're the club, so we'll do it before we go out sick. So anyhow, this is probably like 11 o' clock at night. I'm waiting and waiting for this fucking magical entrance of Chris Brown's going for the door and I'm just. I'm facing. I'm pretty much looking at the door around this big fucking table. Yeah, the. Just waiting for this guy to come through. And someone would knock at the door. I'd be like, oh, like, this is Chris Brown. This is big. But the butler, a waiter, like, bringing up food, room service and that. So it wasn't him. The time kept ticking, man. It got through to 2am, 3am, up to 4am, and I'm like, sat on this table. Everyone else is just chatting away and I'm thinking, right, what? Like, obviously I'm enjoying myself. But I'm thinking, on the other hand, like, I am here to work, I'm here to get this done. Basically nothing happened. And then the main guy basically went out. Then it was a case of ringing me, bro, Chris is at the club. Chris is at the club. Are you all gonna come to the club? Like, yeah. So we hopped in this Mercedes like a Vita, like a Sprinter.

Yeah.

Well, they must have. They hired driver, basically in there. And they were saying, like, oh, just bring, bring. Don't worry about the stuff, don't bring the stuff because Chris will come back later. But I'm thinking at this point, It'd be like 9 o' clock in the morning. It was so late me, it was like 5:00am Gets his club, fucking Chris Brown's there. Like, do you ever watch. Do you ever watch when you're younger? Step up.

Yeah, the.

I can't remember his name. His name's like Adam something. Moose. Step up. One of the main characters, basically, he's in the club. Adam. Adam lavani. That's fucking Maroon 5, innit? Yeah, it's Adam. So he was there. I recognized him. And then fucking Chris Brown was there. They were fucking like dancing with each other. Obviously said hello in that, but it was a kind of like, hello. And then like by water, what's good? And then it was basically like he did his own thing, whatever. Nothing was coming off it, but obviously I'd had a bit to drink. Everyone else had a bit to drink and I was just like, oh, I was enjoying myself. Didn't think anything of it anyway, like, obviously I thought. Then I thought, hell, like, this is clearly legit. I've just met Chris Brown. This is legit. Of course. It's like, not a scam. He's gonna wear my stuff. He'll do it tomorrow. Anyway, the stuff, long story short, got back to the apartment, which was technically Chris's on paper, but it actually wasn't, and basically got there, got back at like 7am in the morning. My flight was at 12. Left the case there. And I just. I said to the guy, like, you're definitely gonna do this. He's like, don't worry, brother. Like, I've got you, man. I've got you. Chris is gonna weigh your stuff, I'm gonna get a photo, I'm gonna send it to you, and blah, blah, blah. I fly back and I'm thinking, I'm fucking. Does it sound like I've done what I've come to do? I fucking got to party. Got to party with Chris Brown. All them people fucking sick. Like, shit like that doesn't. I mean, I think I was. I don't really get drunk often, but I was pissed. And I was sending videos to my mates just like, what the fuck has just happened? Like, how have I ended up in this position to meet this guy? Whatever, get back, get back into uk. And I'm texting him in between saying, oh, thank you for that, man. Thank you. He's like, no worries. They're blunt. And then again, obviously, shit always happens. Message saying, yo, bro, when you gonna do the thing? What you mean, bro? What do you mean? Well, the fucking picture. He's like, oh, yeah, leave it with me. Dragged it on, dragged it on, dragged it on. And then he used to just say, say to me, the main guy would just say, like, yeah, Chris is gonna do it. He's busy. And I'd be like, yeah, okay, but I paid you this money up from. Because the deal was you wanted. You were gonna do it on the 4th of August. You're gonna fucking have the photo of me. They're done and you're gonna get it all done. Basically didn't fucking going on here, mate.

That's good story. It's good.

And then basically fucking get back. I'm seeing this guy on Instagram. I'll show you his account after fucking. He's like driving that Rolls Royces in Dubai, obviously rentals and that. Eurus is. He's with like. There was a picture of him with Travis Scott. He's with German designer Panda. He's with him, like all that. But anyway, I clocked on his stories. He was wearing my stuff, my T shirts, which I gave to Chris. He Was wearing all them. And I thought the. I was like, that's weird. And I was like, oh. I swiped it to his story saying, nice T shirt, man. He seen it, didn't reply. I was like. And then basically I messaged him saying, I just thought, fuck this, this guy's taking a piss now he's flying around all over the world. Where's my fucking picture? All I wanted is that pit. That one picture. Yeah, don't care how much it costs, I just want that one.

Photoshop it.

At that point, do you know, I actually that's what my fucking dad said to me. It's like, you know what you're saving? You save fucking thousands. Just Photoshop it. It's not the same. And I just said to him, look mate, you've got a week or I'm going to the bank. Replied straight away like, you fucking little cunt. If you fucking think you're gonna go to the bank on me on this, haha, you can't. It's impossible. You did friends and family. But I was like, no, no, no, I'm clever. I paid friends and family. But with my credit card.

Yeah.

Which I thought was fucking clever because I thought I'm not paying out my balance, my own cash, PayPal Pay with a credit card and it's their fucking mess to deal with. They can, NatWest can deal with it or MasterCard, whatever.

Yeah.

And he was like, no, no, trust me, you don't know. You don't realize if you go to the bank, it fucks everything up. Don't, please don't. I was like, okay. And then I just thought, you know what? Fuck this, I'm ruined. A fucking Batman. I couldn't give a fuck. I don't know the cunts.

You got it back.

I've got. It's in a holding account now as we speak right now, but until the 31st of December or like the first week of January. Then it's like after it's gone out, that holding account goes back into my account so I can't touch it, but I know it's there. And basically I've had all these little stupid team fucking come at me and say, oh, you fucking. Da da, da. When I see where. If I see you, all this basically like friend me and shit, but it's. It's fucking absolute bullshit.

Yeah.

Anyway, the guy I mentioned before, we paid in cash. He's fucked, mate. He's fucking fucked because he's paid cash and he's like messaging me saying, oh, do I. Can I get A lawyer or what and like his shit is still going on right now and he's had not a penny back or anything because he paid in cash. So basically long story short, it's hopefully by the time this comes out it's all sorted and I can laugh about it and that but if it's not, it's fucked up. And the moral of the story. Well, it's not. The moral of the story is basically I can't listen to Chris Brown anymore.

Yeah, very true. I like that. That's a good story.

It's alright, man. Jeez, it was long. I know, I know. But it just shows you that these people online, they pretend to be someone they're not.

Yeah.

I went online a little bit so.

Many times but people just get finessed. Happens all the time. Yeah, but like that I've had similar stuff happen. Yeah.

Swear.

Yeah. With some lady a few years ago that promised she was part of this like model agency or something.

Okay.

And there was that big scam photo shoot and it losing like 15 grand in cash.

You paid in cash and.

Yeah. And then to this day she like blocked me on everything. I know she is but did you.

Know where she lives?

No. She was a nutter. Turn out she was like a nutter and does it slides people.

But anyway they make a living, mate.

That's the story. Yeah, legit is. That's the story for another time. All right, final question because yeah, we've gone some. We could probably do a part two but I started asking this question to everyone on the podcast and it's so like stereotype. But if you go back to 14 then. Because that's when you started.

I would probably say yeah, 14 for the idea.

And then you go back to 17.

Yeah, good. That's a good age.

What would you tell yourself? But the main thing, two things.

One, you mentioned before about not living but kind of not being as cautious. Don't be as cautious because you're going to miss out on a lot of things. Like he gets all my friends who are not in like the whole like fashion ecom type space. They've all kind of done like the whole lads holiday and like not give a that type of thing. Whereas I've only been only just done that when I'm a little bit older.

Yeah.

And kind of just fucking not be too emotionally attached because I mentioned that before. Whereas everything's like a. Oh, it's a bit of a hard decision to make sometimes and doing certain things.

Yeah.

Whereas. Yeah. I don't know. I'm just learning. Whereas someone like you. I'm trying to learn off you.

Well, geez, I'm trying to learn off the fucking next person.

Yeah, but that's it. It's a constant, constant thing, innit? You're learning from him. Who's learning from him? He's learning from him and you're learning from him and I'm learning from you and someone's learning from me, learning from them.

Yeah, very true, very true. That's sick. Yeah, I think we could probably do a part two. We'll probably go on forever, but I think that's a banging episode. I learned a lot about you and good stories, so you're a good guest. You can speak. Help me out with my bloody man flu.

No, you sound fine, I'll say that.

Just at the end. Yeah. Cheers for watching, I guess. As usual, subscribe to the Pod. It's on Spotify, Apple, podcasts, music, whatever. Share it with mates if you like it. We get a lot of messages, to be fair, like on a daily basis on Instagram saying people like the Pod, which is motivating. So gotta keep these up weekly. Got plenty more in the pipeline and hope you enjoyed. Catch you in the next one. Peace.

Sam.