Building a Nightlife Empire, Celebrities & £100k Bottles - Asher Grant | Midnight Podcast Episode 12

Right then back with episode 12 now of the Midnight Pod. And before we waste all the quality content we've got, probably I'm not gonna say the most interesting because that's offensive to the previous guests, but certainly the first guest that I don't really know myself or isn't from like my friendship group or like my close circle connections, which is probably something I'm gonna have, have challenges with. The pod is getting on like other guests that once I rinse all my friends, basically who the fuck do I get on so. Asha Grant, owner of Rain London and a bunch of other things and I guess as well the first entrepreneurial guest that isn't in like the E Comm specifically or like digital marketing space. And just something that I'm interested in, like we're saying off camera, obviously been to our clubs myself many times, great spots. I'm just interested to hear about your story really. So I suppose like with all the pods, the first question it's just A, tell us what you do and B, kind of where you got there in a nutshell and then we'll dive into a bunch of different things.

Yeah, sure. Thanks. Thanks for the intro. It did officially sound like you have 11 other friends there, so.

I probably don't have 11. That's probably doing myself.

No. So yeah, so as you said, I own a couple of nightclubs and like some, some food businesses as well and to sort of have sort of projects coming up over the next two or three years that means that pretty, pretty quickly we'll, we'll have quite a strong holding in the high end luxury F and B space within London and so hospitality and. Yeah, I suppose the way I got there is the thing to focus on is that actually I started kind of right from the bottom up. I used to work in nightclubs for many, many years as a kid and I sort of had this light bulb moment because I realized how much money was being spent in these venues and I just saw this opportunity and this was, you know, 15 years ago, I think I was 18. So yeah, I kind of, I was, I had just left uni and I was always maybe in uni or something like that and my part time job was, was spraying perfume in Harrods.

Yeah, I was reading about that.

So. And I just remember a friend of mine who worked at one of these nightclubs, Whiskey Mist. It was, it's still around but it's slightly, it's reincarnated now, but it was, she asked, oh, why don't you come and be a promoter and a Promoter for anyone who isn't aware is someone who works with the nightclub and gets paid per head to bring guests to the nightclub. So populating and making the nightclub busy. And I thought, yeah, sure, I know some people. So I invited, you know, all my friends from who also worked in Harrods spraying perfume and yeah, just kind of got on the phone to everyone I knew. And I always remember I made more money in the first night doing that than I had a previous month worth of shift working, paying, spraying perfume. And I kind of like I said this, this light bulb moment happened. I just thought, oh my gosh, what, what an opportunity. Like I can't believe. And it's so funny because now the way that people get paid in nightclubs is so much better than I was then. The deals and the kind of like norm, the industry standards have gone up so much. I laugh at the kind of way I was paid back then, but for me still at the time it was a lot of money. And so I started, started promoting in nightclubs and then I pretty quickly worked out then these like high end nightclubs as well as all the celebrities that come in. You're kind of dealing with ultra high net worth individuals. And I kind of worked out that actually, you know, I was getting along with these guys really well. And definitely one of the strengths I had was, you know, being able to spark up a relationship with someone relatively quickly on a night out. And I sort of moved into clients as opposed to guests and promoting and I would do everything and anything I could to kind of like work out how to meet more ultra high net worth people. And that would be obviously like if you met one ultra high net worth person, you know, they'd introduce you to a friend or a business partner, blah, blah, blah. But I was trying to find anyway, so I was hitting every five star hotel, I was going around to every restaurant, I was harassing every like concierge service or like major banking service just to have a coffee with me or just like, and I was so young at the point is like my, my kind of ignorance and my naivety was almost like my best, like my best asset because I had no idea what a wally I was making of myself. Just like knocking down these doors like please, please, please, I want to tell you about these nightclubs. And eventually you know, these, the doors did get knocked down and I did get people who would start to sort of refer their, their guests of hotels or their members of exclusive banks or high high end concierges and they would start to like, if Someone was coming into town and wanted a, you know, a club guy, they would sort of call me, and my network just. Just spread and spread and spread and, you know, got to a point where I have, you know, pretty silly black book in my phone of sort of like CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, like some of the biggest athletes in the world or celebrities and all these. And it sort of dawned on me, like, wow, it's really got to a great level now. And then I thought, wouldn't it be great to have to have my own venue? Because at the time in London, I felt like the scene was slightly stagnant. And I felt like we. I just had spent a lot of time in America and in LA and Miami and things like that in Vegas. And I thought, we surely can do better. When a guy comes and spends, I mean, ridiculous money, it's, of course, obscene the amount of money that people spend in these nightclubs. So. But when someone's coming to spend 5,000, 10,000, 20,000, 50,000, whatever, it happens to be like, why is it in London we're so far behind everywhere else in the world in terms of, like, rewarding that spend.

Yeah.

And so I thought, you know, I can do this. You know, I think I can. I can give this a go. And so I reached out to those of my clients that thought I was like, hi, guys. And again, I was a kid at the point. I was. And I don't just mean my age. I think I was 24 or 25. But mentally, I was really a kid. And so I sort of reaching out to everyone going, oh, guys, I think I'm gonna do a nightclub again. Ignorance is bliss. I've absolutely no idea how hard it would be. And I said, I think I need to raise some money. And actually, to my surprise, everyone that I asked came back and said yes. And so I got the sort of the. The advantage of getting to pick who I wanted to go into business with, which maybe we'll touch on later, but. But, you know, for anyone who's ever looking to do any business and needs to take on investment, I think that's probably one of the you can do is. Is be smart with who you get into bed with. Like, you know, into business with. And yeah, no, I, you know, we opened up the first club, which was Rain, as you said. And, you know, I slowly, slowly, slowly just refined the product, you know, created the team, everything into the point where it's at now where, you know, biased, of course. But I, you know, I think Rain is a Real force and one of the. Definitely one of the best clubs in Lond. But I think it holds its own, you know, internationally. And it's created like, you know, it's one of those things. There's so much work that happens behind the scene, not just, not just for me, but from a whole host of team, you know, that it's interesting because people come in and they get drunk and they have a party and they have like, you know, such a crazy time and then they, they leave. But actually, like, it's every tiny minutiae detail is thought of and the guest experience. So that actually, you know, when we can open four nights a week or 200 times a year, people come in and they get the same level of absolute wild craziness every time they're inside. And that, that kind of level of consistency is, I think, you know, what makes it so successful. And then obviously recently off of the back of that, during COVID we had the opportunity to sort of double down. And I say double down because obviously at the time we did the deal, nightclubs were fully illegal in the UK and had been for about a year. So it was a real, it was a real moment. But we had the opportunity to buy Mahiki, which is on Dover street opposite the Ritz. And for anyone who's not sort of, yeah, not clued up on nightclubs, Mahiki was like the Mecca 15 years ago because all the royals would go there and they would kind of all met there and they would all party there. And then it's kind of like an iconic location that just hadn't done very well for a long time. And yeah, you know, I was lucky enough that it came to me off market and we managed to tie up the deal relatively quickly. But it was also the first nightclub that I ever went to, I think when I was underage, but I think I was about 17, so the first nightclub I ever went to. So there was just something in. I had it like in between the teeth. Just, just when it came off, I was like, I gotta take the place. That was like the first place I snuck into with a. With a fake id. Probably. Probably. That's probably why they didn't do very well. Letting too many 17 year olds in.

Maybe. Can't spend as much.

Can't spend as much. Yeah, Pocket money doesn't stretch as far when you're 17.

Yeah, true. Yeah. Geez. Well, Rain was actually. Rain was the last place I went to before back in March last year when everything went tits up and spent way too much Money. I think my mates came down from York, that's where I'm from. Yeah. And yeah, I had a great night. So going back then quickly, because that was actually a solid intro, probably the best intro we've had a good nine minutes of.

Sorry to the 11 previous intros, though, after this.

Yeah, no, well, so when you started then as a promoter, was it. Was that London or was that. Yeah, where you're from? Where are you from as well?

So I'm from sort of close to Brighton.

Yeah.

But, you know, I moved to London when I was 16, so I've lived in London now longer than I had ever lived in Brighton or sort of around that area. Sussex, I suppose you'd call it. So. Yeah, no, I. It was always in London. And that suppose is one of the keys, I think, to my success was that London is one of the most exciting cities in the world.

Yeah.

And there is so much diversity, complexity, but also money that comes through the city and that will just never, ever, ever change and it gives birth to a lot of opportunities. There are probably a lot of people who are much better at doing what they. Doing this than I am, but maybe the fact that they've been constrained by certain cities. There's only ever going to be a ceiling if you open a. You know, if you open a nightclub in Bolton, there is only enough. There is only so much you can do with a nightclub in Bolton. So there's something about London which is international and that has definitely helped. I've been very lucky in that.

Yeah, definitely. And did you go to uni or anything? Was it literally straight into the promo scene?

No. Yeah, I did because I went to.

Uni in Newcastle before I dropped out. I used to take the piss out of promoters, probably. I shouldn't be telling you that. Yeah, no, it seems promoters is like.

A dirty word now, isn't it? I don't know why that is. Maybe that thing like a. An unfair reputation that they have. But, you know, the. All the promoters I know they are, they're like proper business people. They see it as, you know, they're not out there to try and sleeze on the girls and get loads. Get really drunk and take loads of drugs. I mean, there will always been exceptions, so I'm sure. But actually, you know, they. Now, these people, they're proper business people, they make a lot of money and they take it incredibly seriously. Like it's. Yeah, I think it's changed from when I began. It's become a very. Like a very legitimate career and. And I'm like, I'm telling you now, some of my staff, especially some of the promoters, they earn more than like bankers and traders and they drive Porsches and Ferraris and they are living their best life but they work for every bit of it. They just worked out that they're trading but they're just trading something different. Right. Which is an experience. But yeah, yeah, they do really well for themselves. But yeah, it was definitely not like that in my day. When I started, I think I was paid five pounds per person that I bought, maybe per girl that I bought. So for me to make sounds more fair, yeah, if I bought like 50 girls, you know, I was still not really, maybe I could pay for a dinner. It was nothing like it is, it is now, unfortunately.

How was it back then? So it's always paid per girl because I used to wonder this. I mean obviously like you're saying previously, London's always more money than any other city, particularly in the uk. So you know, comparing Newcastle is not exactly the same but because you mentioned obviously you, you made more in a week than you had, I think in a month. Was it perfume?

I think, I can't remember exactly what happened but I think I, the first night I came I bought something like 150 guests to this nightclub which if you, you know, do some quick math was probably like, I don't know, 7, 7, 800 quid that I made that night. But spraying perfume wasn't a very well paid, paid sort of part time job.

And I remember thinking like, yo fellows, quick one. First bit of promo for the pod. You may or may not have heard I released a fucking E Commerce a few months ago. Basically spent like six months making it because I was in between businesses, as you probably know, if you follow my shit, I must say, 12 hours long. It's fucking quality content, especially for the price it's at. Now I was gonna drop it at like 1500 quid with some bullsh webinar and all that rubbish but as you know, it's not my main thing. I'm working on a new brand right now, very, very fucking much in the trenches. Which is why I think it's actually a better course than everything else out there because it's built on real experience of my brands in the past and my current one. So yeah, long story short, I've dropped it to 299quid which is criminal to be honest because it should be way more expensive than that. I think it's super, super valuable. If you're interested in ecom. You're already in E Comm and you wanted to get into e comm 0 to 1 starting a brand from scratch, then definitely worth investing in. Link is in the bio of this video or podcast. Spotify, Apple Music, wherever the you're listening or watching and. And enjoy the rest of the pod.

Wow. I've, you know, maybe I tell the story wrong, maybe it might not have added up to exactly a month, but I definitely did better than I think. I was paid maybe 45 pounds a day spraying perfume. So it was a lot of perfume spraying that I had to do to create the same thing. And I definitely had more fun. So, yeah, I kind of, I took to it like a duck to water. And I just had this thing at the time, I was like, this is an industry which is all about person, personal ball relationships. And I. To kind of go back to your question. I trained as an actor for. In drama school for my university. And I kind of halfway through the course fell out of love with. With the industry. And I remember I was. I was doing a play and I had a great part and we were getting really great reviews and I. And I just being really unhappy in the West End. Yeah, it was at the Bristol Vic. And I just remember being really unhappy and I thinking, like, what is it that, you know, excites me? The thing that excited me at the time was being in control of my life. Being, you know, getting to kind of like exercise my ambition and nightlife gave me so much scope to do that. But specifically because the reason I mentioned that I trained as an actor was, you know, you get these skills, I suppose, as an actor where you can, you know, you can speak to people quite easily. You know, you'll have a bit more confidence maybe. And so actually I found that insanely helpful as my career went on because it meant that whichever scenario I was in, I could be in a room with like Saudi royalty or I could be in the room with like the Premiership's number one footballer. And I never. I could almost fake comfort to the point where they felt comfortable because they were like, whoever this guy is, he's not phased and therefore he's. He's allowed in our inner circle. And so I guess, you know, the very successful people, especially very rich or very famous people, have a thing where, you know, everyone around them is trying to grab them from every angle. And oh my gosh, you're amazing. You know, sometimes when you meet someone who's just unfazed and not bothered by any of those things, that's the alluring part to them, they're like, oh, right, a normal person, thank goodness. And I think that's something I was able to use as I was kind of coming up through the industry is like, how can you just essentially, you know, be nice to people, treat them well, kind of have some jokes and some laughter and, you know, build up a relationship. There's, there's stuff that happens in nightlife which you just can never, you know, you can never recreate in real life that when you're out and you kind of having a drink with each other and you're having your high fiving and everyone's. Their guard is down, right? Because, you know, work, you can form a relationship which is just so much different to like, if you work for a company for years and years and your boss, you know, it's very difficult to break that, break that relationship. You get to be the fun guy, the party guy, the, you know, the fixer, the maker, whatever it happens to be. You get to fill that role in nightlife which, which breaks a lot of boundaries really quickly and levels you up very quickly because you get allowed into rooms or get to get a seat at dinner tables that you would never, ever, ever get a chance to do in, in the rest of your life. And it's interesting because before we started recording, you talked about, you know, what a great opportunity this is to network. I mean, I tell my staff all the time, I'm like, yeah, you know, great, you all earn good money. But guys, you're dealing with people who you would never in a million years get to meet in the real world. And you're getting to like them, take their number, go for dinners with them, become their buddies. I mean, stayed at half of my clients holiday homes. I've flown in there in their jets. You know, there's been insane amount of privilege that's happened from having a relationship with these people, which I have no earthly business, like no real right in actually knowing these people. And it's like, obviously, you know, I can't say everything because, you know, you have to have an amenity, anonymity.

Anonymity. Yeah, it's a weird word.

You know the one. You gotta give them some privacy.

Privacy.

You gotta give them some privacy. But like, you know, one of my clients is, he's the CEO of one of the biggest banks in the world. And the guy's a crazy party guy. Like, he lives the most crazy lifestyle.

Yeah.

And again, there's. I should never know this guy. But the fact that I get to and the fact that I do means that he's always like, oh, you know, want to use my cabin in the woods? Go for it. You know, like when we're in America, like, oh, let me send the jet. I'll pick you up. So. And he's the most lovely, amazing guy, but there's no way I would have ever met him if I didn't, you know, essentially have a shot with him one night and. Yeah. And things like that. So it is, It's a very special industry because, you know, people have their guard down. People are wanting to let off steam. People want to have a. Have a. Have a good time, and you get to facilitate all of those things, which naturally means you get to be quite high up in their, you know, their, Their, you know, you know, their speed dial, I suppose. And so going all the way back to the promoter thing, These promoters earn more money and have more crazy contacts than like 90% of the people is absolutely crazy.

You've changed my perspective in five minutes, to be fair.

Honestly, that it's, it's. I'm not speaking for everyone, so it's not verbatim, but these guys are really smart, you know, they, they, they roll with someone like the biggest influencers in the world, some of the biggest celebrities. They know some of the most ridiculous people. And Even me, I'm 33, and even I feel like I'm losing touch, you know, with like all the, all the cool kids. I've definitely never been cool, but these cool kids, you know, they know everyone, how they do it.

Yeah.

And the funny thing is all these, like, all these, all these party like these, these, these like famous people think they want to party with these promoters because it's cool to know them. You know, there's a guy in. There's a guy who's really killed it in Miami called Purple. It's like the biggest promoter in Miami.

Purple. It's a good name.

Yeah, it's great name. And it's like he literally has celebrities queuing up to party with him. He's almost like more famous in Miami than they are. It's absolutely crazy, you know, and that. That would just never happen in any other industry. And that's the kind of magic of the whole thing, this weird stardust that happens when you get to. When you get to get someone really drunk, I suppose.

Yeah, it's very true. Geez, that is interesting that. That in a way feels like the exact opposite almost to kind of elements of what I do in the E Commerce base. And it's. Well, certainly when you're getting started, like, doing online stuff. And I've been saying this on previous episodes, whatever, and to my mates to do similar shit. It's like, you can make good money when it goes well, but it's all when you're getting started, like in the trenches, et cetera. Like, it's great being online, blah, blah, you got freedom, whatever, but you don't fucking meet anyone.

Yeah.

And I've kind of had this awakening, like I was saying to you before we start recording, starting this new thing. Currently speaking to investors to ready to see round of funding, which is partly about the funding, but it's actually more about, I don't want to do it by myself anymore.

Yeah, that's also. Definitely.

And it's just so, so lonely. And it's like. Especially when shit goes wrong.

Yeah. Well, they say it's lonely at the top for a reason. Right. Like it. Because it really genuinely is. Yeah.

So, yeah, it's interesting that I wouldn't have thought about nightlife like that, but now you've said it, it's like, oh, shit. Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a massive network to create a.

Community, especially when you have big people flying in. Right. Like, so some of my biggest clients come in three times a year. And so you're only going to see them for that very small window. So it becomes a big deal for them. They're like, I'm coming to London, man. I'm coming to see you. We're going to. We're going to rage for like four days. And you're just like thinking, it's just a Tuesday, like, give me a break. You know, for them, it's a big occasion. They're going to see one of their friends in another city and all that kind of stuff. But it is, to your point, though. It is. It is interesting because during COVID I found that apart from fully losing my mind, I found that I was getting just crazy with all the zooms. And I was like, gosh, I can't do any more zooms. And it's because I believe so strongly in the human connection and we are social beings and that, you know, in the whatever happens pandemic or not, we want to connect. And it's so much easier to connect face to face and to have a conversation, because on a zoom, you know, you hit. You sit there with an agenda and it's very hard to kind of meander off or do anything different. But when you're in person, you know, you can say, oh, cool, what's that sign? You go, oh, I had this.

Yeah.

Neon sign company. Oh, what's that? Artist. Oh, my God. Yeah, I love him too. Or like, wow, I love what you've done with your rug. And it's like. Yeah, well, I'm actually starting on it, you know, I bet. You know, it kind of leads to so much more.

Yeah.

Because you're in person then, than just sitting behind a camera and. And going through a list of things that you want to bring up.

Yeah. To be fair, that's why. I mean, again, only five weeks in episode 12. But that's why I insisted on wanting to this podcast in person.

Yeah.

And I don't know if that'll ever change, but rather than on Zoom. Whatever. Because. Yeah. I mean, this podcast is mainly an excuse for me to meet people that I think are interesting.

Yeah.

And you get just. Yeah. By default, like you were saying, better connections in person. And especially if you fucking drink loads with them.

Yeah. I love the red wine's.

Absolutely. Well, I'm always red wine on these podcasts.

Yeah. Red wine sends me to sleep. So I'd be like 10 minutes in. But also the sound quality for your listeners. Can you hear crisp? That is. You don't get that on Zoom.

Yeah, true.

You do not get that on Zoom. So everyone who's listening. That's right. This is in person and real.

Yeah, exactly. Like cinema experience.

You can hear the difference.

Exactly that. So how long then? And there's loads of interesting things you've mentioned I want to come on to, but how long were you a promoter, I suppose, before you a made the decision that there's an opportunity to do your own thing and then ultimately went and did that? I suppose.

So. I think I was a promoter from the age of 18 to about 22. So about four years.

Yeah.

And then about 22, I started focusing much more on just sort of the clients as opposed to the individual guests. And that was, I think, probably another three or four years. It was about when I was 25, I started thinking, wow, I think I could. I could do my own place. And so relatively quickly, I managed to raise the money. And so I remember specifically I was 26 when I was going around trying to buy a nightclub, which sounds like the most ridiculous sentence, but it is funny how nobody would take me seriously. So, like, I'd be like, you know, as a little kid, like, hi, I'd like to buy your nightclub. Is it for sale? And fuck off, like. And I was. Yeah. So eventually, obviously, we tried to buy sort of, I think three or four, which, for One reason or another didn't go through. Someone offer more money or they, you know, take off the market. And then the. Specifically the one that we bought. I was trying to. I remember the time I was trying to buy from the guy for, like, two years, and I loved it because it had really high ceilings and he wouldn't sell. And then they had. I was in Cape Town for New Year's Eve and I had. They had a stabbing over. Over New Year's Eve, and someone called me and said, oh, did you hear that? Rah Rah room, which was what it was called before, you hear Rah Rah room had a stabbing. I was like, no. And he goes, yeah, yeah, they.

I think I might have read about this.

Yeah, yeah, they're probably going to lose their license. And I was like, okay, great. So I called the guy and I said, hey, man, are you just. New Year, new start, you know, just thought I'd check in. Do you still not want to sell your nightclub? And he goes, oh, no, actually, yeah, you know what? Funny enough, I've had a bit of a change of heart now. And I was like, oh, really? Great, great. I was like, I've got about a million pounds less now than I had last year. No, no, don't worry, don't worry. I think there's a deal to be done. I thought, yeah, I'm sure there is now there's been a stabbing. And so again, it's sort of, in a weird way, fortuitous that the opportunity came up like anything. And so, yeah, eventually managed to sort of take it. And then by the time we'd gone through all the legals and done all the building work, I remember, I think I was 27 when we. When we opened Rain and. Yeah. Which seems like such a long time ago. Was it four and a half, five years ago? You know, I was just generally so green. I just had no idea how hard it was going to be at the time. I obviously had a lot of clients and I was putting a lot of money into the businesses that I worked for. And I, you know, I was a waiter before I opened the club. That was kind of the level I'd got to, which was. It's not quite the right description because they're essentially like glorified table bookers, but they make a lot of money in tips and things like that. And that was the most lucrative way I could work out to sort of make money from nightclubs. And I, you know, I would turn up to work, I'd work 12 hours a week And I'd make a fortune. Then I'd spend all my time, you know, trying to plan how to open a nightclub. And eventually, you know, when it actually came about, I thought we were going to open the door and there was going to be hundreds of people queuing around the corner for, you know, for miles. And of course, what happened was we opened and had a great first weekend and then nobody cared anymore. Okay, great. So the real kind of. The real work had to start. And yeah, the. We just had to chip away everything, constantly try and improve the club, constantly trying to, like, innovate. And honestly, the number one thing was just trying to get the best team possible working there. And that was really, really hard because any business, but specifically a nightclub or anything in hospitality, the team is everything. And it helps if the club's good and you've got some confetti and lasers and people have fun. But the team is absolutely everything. And so as a young kid, still, I was trying to hire all these people and steal them from these other venues, and no one was taking me seriously. And I just, you know, it was. Everyone is gunning for you to fail, of course, because they're all thinking, what a plonk. What on earth is he thinking? And, you know, we really had to work hard at it. I'd say we. It took nine plus months to finesse what the product was. When. When I look back to what we first did, we had a whole section of the club was what wasn't tables. It was all like a massive theater stage. And, you know, now I think back to myself, like, what a terrible use of real estate. Like, all of that square footage is so valuable in nightclubs. And we were doing these terrible shows that came on every night and they would interrupt the flow of the night and, you know, you just. You kind of have to work it all out. And it's interesting because we're doing the same now with. With Taboo, which is. Has just opened. And yeah, we're trying to finesse what is exactly the concept. What's our USP here? What's the thing that differentiates us from every other nightclub? Like, I've never been interested in just opening a room with lights and some speakers and everything's flashing. It's just, what a boring way to spend four hours. The great thing with Rain is you go on this journey, you come in, there are shows, there's ambient performers, there's these bottle shows, there's like, stuff that happen, like every two minutes, your. Your faces and your eyes are going somewhere else. You can't, you can't keep up. It's like a level 100. And then, you know, when you go, I think back to what it was at the beginning, it was, it was so terrible. It took us like so long to, to get it right. I had a lot of, a lot of sleepless nights for the first year and a half, I think, trying to work out what on earth I got myself into.

Yeah, I went to my, was it cabaret club like a year ago when it was obviously mid Kovik. So I went to my 25th birthday.

Oh, right.

Which was a year and two weeks ago now. Whatever. And yeah, I just remember being so different because obviously, yeah, Kovid must have been scary in the night club industry.

Super hard. Yeah, I, I foolishly, you're. There's a recurring theme here that most of the things is because I'm a plonker. So I foolishly thought, when it all got announced, I was like, oh, three weeks, we'll be back.

Yeah, we'll be high fiving.

They will never, ever, ever stop nightclubs, blah, blah, blah. And actually, of course it just went on and on and on and on and it was really testing. Yeah. You know, there were times when I thought that the industry was over, that I thought that, I thought that we were never going to have nightclubs again. I thought I was a bit bitter because I thought, God, I've spent years and years trying to raise all this money and finally get a business up and running and it's working. And finally I was just getting to the point where I was really starting to do really well. And of course the whole thing comes crashing down and you know, that hiatus as well. You know, I'm 33, so I think I was 31 when the whole thing started. And yeah, Christ, I felt like I was in the prime of my career or just at the beginnings of the prime. And so to have the whole thing, the whole thing stop. And then, you know, the hardest, the hardest, hardest, hardest thing which I can say now openly but was, I was finding it mentally really difficult. But we have a hundred plus staff arranged, so I had them reaching out every day. Oh, when did you know? You know, putting their worries and fears, oh, when's it going to open? What do you think? And I kind of had to be the strong one, even if I didn't believe it. Don't worry, everything's going to be okay. Just stay strong. We got this. Let's all work together. You know, it's kind of going to come back stronger and I would Hear myself. And then I'd get off the phone and I'd be like, now why am I lying to these people? Like, we're all, what are we doing? Yeah, you know, it's the, the definition of it. Being lonely at the top is, is one of the. Some of the times you've got to be strong for everyone else. Even when you think, you know, we haven't got hope in hell. So, yeah, it was, it was not easy. But as cliche as it sounds, nothing. You know, the easy times don't make us stronger. It's the hard times that test us and they make that. That's what kind of calluses the mind and gives us strength. Right. So I'm hoping and touch wood that we never have to face a time that's that difficult again. But everything, every difficulty that comes now, I feel like it's gonna pale in comparison to having 16 months of. I mean, honestly, like when we opened as a cabaret bar, you know, like, imagine opening just so you could staff can earn some money and then losing money every week.

Yeah.

Clients all hating it. Being terrible. Being told to sat down. The music's not allowed to be loud, no one's allowed to dance. And all I'm thinking was, dear God, let me let the staff earn money. I really, you know that I know how desperate it's got for everyone at this point. And yeah, it was, it was soul destroying, really was. But there's that thing I just, I kept telling myself, in five years, we're not sitting here and nightclubs don't exist. That just isn't a thing.

Yeah.

Like we're not sitting here in five years all wearing face masks.

Yeah.

You know, standing two meters apart in a restaurant. I just, it just, it didn't add up to me. And you know, thankfully we were so lucky in this country because our government were incredibly fast on the vaccine and have been quite liberal in the reopenings. I mean, right now, still, what we're In November of 2021, only probably 25% of the countries in the world have got nightclubs open. So if I, if I really in another country right now, you know, that spent all his young adult life trying to raise money and opening his first business and all these different things. He's not allowed to work right now and he's. He's two years into this. Rather, you know, I got to. We got going six months ago or near abouts. So, you know, I mean, I. To put some perspective into things. I feel incredibly lucky that we're actually able to open and work now. And I don't know what the future holds exactly, but hopefully it's not ever another 491 days, which is how long.

We were close, nobody's counting.

Yeah, I was bloody can imagine abacus, you know, hopefully that never happens again.

Yeah, definitely. Geez. Yeah. So coming back to investors then because.

Just so the everyone knows there's a new glass of red wine now.

Well, yeah, this is like most people watches on YouTube to be fair. So they can see that I'm a fucking podcast alcoholic. This is the thing because I last week I recorded like three episodes in a week and I was drinking every night because it's just become a habit now because then people only see it once a week. So this I'm drinking once a week.

Yeah. As far as everyone else is concerned. Once a week.

Yeah, no, everyone.

It's not good if you do like seven episodes.

Exactly. It sounds very healthy. But yeah, coming back to the investor stuff because again prior to recording this off camera, that's what I'm now doing. Sorry to go down that route because the next venture, having learned hard lessons with the previous ones that a don't want to do it myself, I think it can be more fun doing other people. Obviously sometimes you need more money and leverage and I can imagine fucking need a lot more money to do something in central London. But I guess two parts I want to go into that like firstly, well, first I guess it's bloody expensive to open a nightclub in London. And secondly, I would imagine then the people that you've met through being in that world, did that help with obviously, you know, high net worth individuals etc, etc, access to certain people that you may not otherwise have. Did that help with that process?

Yeah, it definitely helps if your network is high net worth because you know, when you get above a certain point you have so much spare capital that you people actively want to invest. There's a lot of successful people that, that they actively want to help the next generation. They want to do their bit and I think that that's even me now when people ask me for investment. I sometimes don't always think that the business has got the most legs, but I believe in the person and that is almost more important than what they're doing because it's like I want to help this person out but I think that it definitely helps and I think it helps that it's a nightclub because there's a lot of like sparkly fairy dust that goes into a nightclub investment that you just don't get with any other investment, you know, the, you get to see, you know, your favorite athletes in the world. You get to see celebrities come in every night. You get to, you know, you, you don't have to queue up yourself, which is always helpful.

Yeah.

And I think that people can get a real buzz about, you know, owning, you know, one of the, the coolest spots in the city that everyone wants to go to. And a lot of my clients have invested in other businesses that do sort of similar things in America. And one of my clients is a huge like multi, multi, multi billionaire guy. Vc. VC guy, owns the most successful venture capitalist firm in the world almost ever. And when you ever talk to him, all he wants to talk to you about is his bar that he's invested in in la. And it's cool, it's like the massive celebrity hotspot in la and, and it's, it's, you know, super sought after and it's always in the papers and there's always all the basketball teams coming in and out, every big A list movie star and that for him, I'm sure, by the way, it doesn't like, I'm sure it doesn't make more. He could make so much money and even in a whole year he won't make as much money as he makes. Probably like in 10 minutes when he goes to the toilet, you know, like he's, he's that level. But the amount of joy and the excitement and that, that thing that he gets, you know, to be a part of when he talks about it, you know, that's the rewarding part and that's sometimes where the real investment comes in is like, how can you, you know, offer your investors, you know, value acquisition? What can you offer them that's more than just a return on their investment? Because, because honestly, there's a lot of ways to make money. And if you're rich and you're wealthy, you could just park your money in the stock market and make 10% a year pretty much like, but there's nothing more fun, you know, like, how can you add something to someone's, to someone when they invest in you, you know, so that they're getting something more than just a return on their money. Yeah, yeah, that would, that would be the thing. I would. But it's, it's, I think it's the modern, the most important decisions you make. I've, I've been incredibly lucky. Like, my investing partners are not only like the nicest people in the world, they're incredibly relaxed, they're, we've always had the same goal, which is to create the best venues possible. Which means I haven't had someone looking over my shoulder go, oh, don't think you should, don't think you should spend money on that because you know that's, that's not, that's not needed. And I'm like, yeah, but wouldn't these lasers be really cool? And they're just like, yeah, it's gonna be great. So that's helps that, you know, they're like minded and they've been incredibly supportive. And I think that, you know, your investing partners, business is like a marriage. So when it's good, it's great, but when it's bad, it's, it's like a divorce. And so you need to have people who are going to be with you through the hard times. And that's, you know, we just went through a pandemic. And if I had investors calling me every day going, I want my money back now. Where is it? Like, you know, it can become a really scary space. And for me now, one of my investors is like one of my best friends. And one thing I love is that whenever I get on the phone and I ask him anything, he just says yes. He just not, not, not asking him for money. Like this opportunity has come up. Do you think, you know, do you think we should do it? And sometimes as an entrepreneur, it's so nice to have someone along for the journey with you. So like we, you know, we're about to open a rain in Dubai and I remember when the sort of deal came to us and I, you know, the first thing as an entrepreneur, I'm thinking, gosh, if I got the time to do this, can we make it successful? Do we want to, do we want something to fail in Dubai? You know, all these questions that you start to doubt yourself. And I think if it was just me by myself, that would cloud my mind more. But having partners that I can turn around to and say, this thing's coming from Dubai, this is the deal. Do you think we can do it? And then someone who just turns around goes, yeah, let's do it. That's going to be amazing. Let's do it. And it kind of goes, gives you the confidence to have conviction in your, in yourself, I suppose. And all of a sudden you don't feel like you're fighting an uphill battle by yourself. I think, I think your partners and your investing partners or whatever, it's great to have 100% of the pie, but it's also incredibly difficult and lonely, you know?

Yeah, yeah, geez. I learned that on a smaller scale because, yeah, geez, there's no point. Just I guess when I was a bit younger, like, you think you start your first business, whatever you think, want to build this, make a lot of money and sell it. But then it's like, well, as I've got a little bit older and I'm still young relatively. But you realize that, yeah, fuck if it's no fun. If the journey and the game is no fun, then really, what's the point? Because there might be an end goal, but a. That may never happen. It probably won't happen the exact way you would like anyway, even if it does go well. But then it's like, fuck, it's just a bit. That's the kind of realization I had, probably because of COVID and stuff that happened, as maybe a lot of people did. It's like, fuck if you're not doing it with people that you enjoy spending time with.

A million percent. Even now that now I have a lot of opportunities offered to me because of the success of the other stuff. And the first thing I always think of is if I get into business with this guy, I've got to spend at minimum a couple of hours a week with this person's presence. And if someone.

It's not ideal if you don't get.

With that person, that's a long time in your life to spend. I don't see most of my friends a couple of hours a month, a week. So you want to really pick who you're in business with. But it's interesting as well what you said, because one of my favorite books is Shoe Dog by Phil Knight, the guy who owns Nike. I loved this book because I resonated so much with this, his ongoing struggle, and he kind of had no idea. And at any moment the whole thing could collapse. And like I said, the first year and a half of the club was definitely echoed a lot of that stuff. And he has this moment at the end of the book, and he's, you know, talking about his. His life. And at this point, he's worth, I don't know, 10 billion, like more money than you would ever need. And he's doing some gardening in his, like, Palm Springs house, and. And someone asks, like, you know, what does he miss? And he just. I. I won't say it word for word, but he. He says that he misses the journey. He misses the excitement, the ups, the downs, the. And he kind of describes it as like the journey of his life. And when you get to a certain point, which if you work hard enough and maybe you get a couple lucky rolls of the dice, you know, hopefully we'll all get to a certain point. So financially, that's not the thing that drives us anymore. It will be that journey that you look back at, and it is those ups, those downs, those hard times. There's something amazing about overcoming adversity.

Yeah.

You know, you've. You've definitely discussed with me some of the adversity you've had, but the adversity makes the win so much sweeter because you earned them.

Right.

Like, you. You. If someone gives you a million pounds tomorrow, it'd be great, but you won't really appreciate it. But if you earn every pound of that million pounds, the way you. The way you feel like, it's completely different the relationship you have with it. And I think that that is. That is something that counts for success as well. And especially when you have a business or you might have many failed businesses and then finally have one that's successful. But it's the. You know, you didn't really fail. You just kind of learned along the way. You know, I failed hundreds of things many, many times over. I'm the guy. I'm really slow. It takes me like three times to learn the lesson. I'm like, should I try that again? No, Asher, you've already learned. That's not a good idea. But you know, these things, they do. You know that you do learn from them. And that is the. That is the bit of the journey. I think I love that journey. I really. I love what I do. The money's the least exciting and least fun thing for me. I love that every day I try to learn something new. I get to meet super, super inspiring people. And I'm always thinking, like, wow, what I know now versus what I knew this time last year. And, gosh, how much more can I learn before. Before this point next year? And, yeah, that's the. I guess that's the most. The most fun part. But if you have great partners or investing partners. Yeah. What you can learn from them or the journey you can go on with them, you know, that's. That's stuff for the ages. That'll be the. The chapters and stories of your life. Right. When you're 80, doing the gardening in your Palm Springs house.

Yeah.

You get to, like, look back.

Your Hampstead Heath, Bishop's Avenue pad. The UK version.

I think I'll try and move somewhere warmer.

We'll go for Palm Springs.

Yeah. Farm Springs.

Yeah. It's so true. That's cool. And just lean off that point then because you mentioned clients a few times and probably excuse my ignorance, in the whole world of clubs, other than just going to them and getting too pissed now and then, where is the line between, you know, guests, I suppose and then clients, like is there an official line? I'm assuming it's how much they spend and yeah, I'm just interested in that. Like how. What's the difference? I suppose. And when did you start dealing with, you know, high net worth clients? Whatever. And then I want to come on to the Amex story which, which I read about the Amex insurance on.

Yeah.

So like.

Yeah, yeah.

Where's that line? And when did you start dealing with those sort of people?

So yeah, I think to make it very clear, a guest would be someone who comes in, pays their £20 at the door and drinks single drinks.

Yeah.

Client, I guess is anyone who's taking a table which normally typically the minimum start with a thousand, two thousand, whatever. Whatever it is on, on various nights. Yeah. So I guess that would. The person who buys a table for those numbers is normally, you know, in a, on a different level in their own career to the person who comes and buys drinks at the bar. And so but it's, you know, it's also a gray area because over the years you become very good friends with a lot of your clients.

Yeah.

And then, you know, you kind of blur the line between. It's very tricky one, you know, you know, people coming in that you've known for 10 years and you're still making them pay full price for everything, you know, but unfortunately it's a business and it, it has, you know, we have massive overheads on each one of the businesses. So I think, you know, it's never, it's not too difficult aligned to sort of like, you know, this is kind of the same rule for everyone, which is generally everyone just pays.

Yeah.

But yeah, no, it's, it's. I think the trickier part is how you, how you don't blow the line too much that when you become really close with someone, all of a sudden you stop charging them and then the business loses out because all of a sudden your, your friend that was spending 10,000amonth is now wants to come in and hang out with you and drink for free on your table every night. You're like, okay, well we've kind of taken a backwards step almost. Yeah, yeah, not ideal.

Yeah, interesting. And then I guess like what's these stupid questions but what's the most ridiculous tab you've ever seen? Because I think that's what people watching will want to know. Yeah, sure, maybe you can't say exactly.

But I obviously couldn't say who. But recently we just had someone do 150 grand in one night, which was pretty ridiculous. But I think that. I think he bought one bottle which was a hundred grand, a single bottle that was a hundred grand, which is. Is obviously very ridiculous. But I think the more crazy question for like, the more crazy answer is that it's very rare that a week goes past without someone coming and spending somewhere between 30 and 50,000. So to give context, that's completely ridiculous. Numbers, like, they're just not normal numbers for anyone to be spending. But there is this like, level of, of people where that amount of money isn't a very big amount of money and therefore they probably have jobs where they're incredibly stressed out or they travel off and we facilitate that. That is where they get to blow off and let off steam. But yeah, the spending in London has, has gone up massively since I started. When I was younger, you could book a table for £500. £500 doesn't even get you on the bar anymore. It's silliness. So the average spend per head and all of that kind of stuff is just massively different now it's gone up and there's so much more money in London than there ever was before. It's a great time for the industry, obviously. But no, it's a lot of money for sure.

Yeah, definitely. I feel like if you want to feel poor, I would say go to a central and the nightclub and you can spend two grand on a table, think you're balling, which like I, like, I've done a few times. And then, and then you see some don coming out with ace of spades and spending like you say, 30, 50 grand.

Yeah. And no one ever orders an ace of spade as one bottle. They always order it in fives or tens, which is. Yeah, but it's interesting because I never, I'm so numb to it now, but I get, I get those shivers whenever I go Hampstead Heath like you said, and see some of those like ridiculous mega mansions or I live in Notting Hill and I. Whenever I walk around Holland park and every. The cheapest house is 20 million quid. I just, Yeah, I just think where on earth do these people get this money? Like there's one thing of like spending money in nightclubs, but there's another thing of owning a, you know, 2030 million pound house. I just think, where do you, where do you even begin? Because this person doesn't just own one house, right. They must have property all around the world. And it's. Yes, it is another level. So in a weird way, the nightclub, you just get a glimpse into it and I can't. Yeah, I don't know, I've become very numb to it. But yeah, take me on a nice road any day and I can start to get quite starship.

I always think someone spending like 50 grand in a club, it's like, is either stupid or they've got way more money than the person buying a 20 million pound house. Because like relative to the thing, it seems so insane. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess there's levels to everything. I want to come back to the Amex story. Yeah. So I read that in the early days you got your, look, your black book from Amex Century.

That's good. Some impressive research. Yeah, I did, yeah, I am, yeah. I want to know how to get.

One of those cards in the future.

Yeah. There's a card called an Amex Centurion, which is a black metal card. And you have to spend a certain amount of money to. To be given one of these cards. The rumors and numbers change on it, but I think a safe bet is that you probably have to spend half a million pounds on this card a year. And to clarify, this is not on houses, this is not on business spending. This is like on holidays, on private jets, on whatever you find, however you want to rack up dinners, however you want to rack up personal nightclub. Yeah, however you want to rack up your half million pounds. So you, obviously you've got to have a lot of money to be, to be even considered for one of these cards. And they have their own concierge service. And I was hounding this woman for six months, not even just six months, I was calling her and emailing her every day, please can we go for dinner? I'd like to set you for dinner. I'd like to tell you about these nightclubs in London, you know, just harassing this poor, this poor woman. And eventually she just gave in. She said, I've never had anyone like bug me so much. What do you want? And I was like. Because I was always dealing with her sort of pa. Yeah. I said, please just let me take you for dinner. I'll take you for such a lovely dinner and I'll just tell you all about these nightclubs. And she must have been hungry because she agreed to come for dinner with me. And it turned out we got like a house on fire. And it turned out that she grew up like one village over from me near Brighton. And she gave me the. The contract for sort of all of Amex Centurion requests for nightclubs in London.

Any.

Anytime anyone would call me and say, oh, I, you know, can we, can we go to a. Can we go to a nightclub? The. The request would come through me. And that helped me massively because, you know, I just remember the first client they ever sent me, he came and spent like 30 grand. And like, at the time, that was just the biggest spend I had ever had, you know, of a customer of mine. And I was so young and it was just such a big deal. And then those calls just started happening every couple of weeks. Oh, I've got another guy, I've got another guy, I've got another guy. And then those guys would all give my contact details to their friends. And it became, yeah, like in our industry, it became like anytime anyone had a black Amic Centurion, they'd be like, you know, it doesn't matter what club they were in, they'd be like, oh, do you know Asher? And they're like, yeah, of course I know Asher. And I was like, oh, great. So, yeah, I got to. That helped massively. But it, again, it was, it was manufactured because I was like, right, where can I find rich people? And I was like, right, well, there's Coops and there's MX Centurion and there's a couple of these banks where you have to spend a certain amount to even be considered. And I kind of attacked them. You know, I've. I reverse engineered the way to meet these people, which was essentially very smart. Harass the lovely lady from American Express.

Yeah, exactly. Was this pre reign then?

This was. Yeah, I think I was like 23 when this happened. Yeah, this is just as I was moving out of promoting and I was. I could see the real money was in. In clients. And I thought, right, how do I. How do I do that? Because you have to start bringing clients to these venues, so you can't. Yeah, you have to kind of prove yourself. And I had, at that point, I had exactly zero clients. So I was like, how do I get to the point where I'm bringing tens of clients every week when currently I know zero people with more than ten pounds to their name? I was like, right, okay, this is gonna have to reverse engineer.

Yeah. So I guess your industry exposes you to, like, often effectively 0.001% of people which, Which I imagine has. Yeah, just. Just massively eye opening, I suppose. So obviously a lot of rich people, but I would imagine as well a lot of celebrities, which I guess genuinely rich as well. Not necessarily as rich as a lot of the anonymous people, but I guess like two part question you probably can't answer, like many of who's coming through. But like, when celebrities come through, are they always. Would they ever come just like unannounced or is it always like texting you? Like the whole team's involved, entourage, all this.

So it really depends. I feel like some celebrities are super last minute, so it would just be like spur of the moment, you know. So, like, I feel like I can say names if. If it was. If they got drunk enough that they didn't care that people were taking photos. So, like, you know, so. So like Lewis Capaldi, who was in on Tuesday night, obviously like that booking was made an hour before we opened. Same with David Guetta a couple weeks.

Before I saw a picture.

But then when's the next most recent guy? Oh, Usain Bolt was in like three weeks ago. We knew he was coming in almost like four days before he came in. So he like clearly planned, yo, I'm gonna be in London on Thursday night. Make sure, you know, I've got a. I've got a space. So you, you know, you mentioned Drake when we just off. Off the podcast, you know, you know, when he's in town, obviously doing a concert or promoting an album or something. And you know when he's going to be in town, he's going to. His people are going to reach out at some point because he likes to go out, you know, multiple nights into multiple venues and things. And so it really differs on who it is. Sometimes athletes, they are specifically plan in advance because they'll have games or they'll have, you know, things happening that link to why they're in London that weekend or whatever it happens to be. So it really depends on everyone. Sometimes you'll get actors rapping films and things. Like when Michael Bay came when they were doing one of the Transformers movies, he booked like two weeks in advance because he was like, we're finishing our shoe on this day and I want to come down with the whole cast. So obviously things like that you know about. But that's kind of the fun of it. You never know when someone's gonna turn up. We had recently, I don't, I won't say who because it will be embarrassing, but we had. When was it? This Tuesday. So two nights ago. We had like half of this very, very top Premier League team turn up, but they turn up too late and we were already sort out. We didn't have a table for them.

Oh, really?

You know, sometimes not ideal because, you know, if you don't also let us know what the situation is, then obviously we don't. It's always better if you know in advance for obvious reasons. But, you know, celebrities specifically, they can also be flaky. Sometimes you'll have something booked in for ages and then, you know, last minute they just decide they're tired, they don't want to go out and fair enough, you know, they've had a long day. There's no way to know. People are always asking me, oh, what night will there be a celebrity? And like, I have to tell you, I have no idea. Honestly. It's like, you know, you almost. You'll pretty much find out an hour after I will because they'll text me and they'll. They'll be in and then they're gone as. As quickly as they came. So. And soz Law, if you know someone's coming and then you tell even one person. Oh, that you know, that person that you're a massive fan of, they're coming in next week, that will always be the night that they'd go. Actually, I'm quite tired. I think I'm gonna have a night in. So. Yeah, it's.

Yeah, definitely, yeah.

Ever changing, I suppose.

Is there ever like competition from clubs? Well, I guess like in general, but like to get someone, like if Drake's in town, which I guess isn't that often, like someone of that sort of level.

Yeah.

Is there like, do clubs ever incentivize celebrities of like that stature to come in or is it. Is it not work like that?

I don't know if the word would be incentivized, I think.

I guess just like competition in general.

I think, I think there's. Yeah, I think there's just generally a lot of competition between the venues in London. I think Covid has made us all realized how silly we were because actually it's great when all the venues are doing well and there's enough bread for everyone to eat. London has an amazing nightlife scene and that's partly down to the operators and the business owners and partly because we have such small spaces. We have to be quite creative with what we do. But if all these nightclubs close and the scene becomes dead, you know, we would all die. You know, you go to Vegas because there's 10 of the best nightclubs in the world all in one place.

Yeah.

So there's a lot of competition but I'm hoping that now, now Covid is, has, has kind of realized, made it, made everyone realize that we're all in the same boat. Hopefully, you know, we will support each other a bit more. You know, it's a very small niche group of us that do this and I really do think there's, you know, London is, is like a money. Money pit, not money pit. What's the word? Like a, like a never ending influx of money. So I think if you're just good at what you do, the businesses will survive and the cream will always rise to the top. Right. So now there's less nightclubs than there were, but at one point there was like 20 plus nightclubs all vying for the same ultra high net worth business and it was, it was just silly. So of course there's always competition. Yeah, always, always, always clients, celebrities, staff from each other, promoters, you know, they're a hot ticket. But yeah, generally the, the cream will always rise to the top.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I guess it's probably the same with a lot of industries. Like someone's doing something more go outdo them etc. Etc.

Absolutely, yeah.

And then another question someone told me to ask actually is because I've always wanted this, I suppose how does a club, is there like a set rule of like how a club, particularly in London, decides who can and can't get in? Obviously if you're a client spending big money on table, generally speaking you can get in if there's space. But in terms of like your average punter trying to get into clubs, is it just girls in London they're getting like officially or is that just the perception?

I think that's a perception. It's a great question by the way, because it's.

I feel like it's the question no one wants to ask. But everyone wants to know the answer.

Yeah, I suppose so, yeah. Listen, look, the simple answer is you want nice people coming into your venue and a lot of people come and they're already drunk or they dress like they just left the gym and things like that and they're genuinely really surprised when they can't get in. And I think the simplest way is, you know, we charge a minimum spend on our tables as we've mentioned, multiple times. It's a venue for celebrities and ultra high net worth individuals and so you need to make sure that the room is nicely balanced and that you have nice people in there. You can't let in a group of guys who look like they might start a fight, you know, because it's just not fair on the other guests. You can't let. You can't let in a group of girls who look like, you know, they've already been on the Bacardi Breezer and if they're going to have three more drinks, they're going to be puking outside. It's just you can't charge a premium without having a premium sort of clientele around, around everybody. So, you know, like, I personally think the. Our ethos is that you let everyone in unless you give us a reason not to let you in. Often people will sort of like, exclude themselves relatively quickly because, you know, you'll have a girl coming to the front door wearing, like sandals and it's like, well, why on earth would you wear sandals to, like, a luxury nightclub?

Yeah.

You know, or you'll have, you'll have like, you know, a group of guys turn up wearing, like, you know, tracksuit bottoms and, and trainers and like a hoodie and you think, well, you just, you just. It's not fair that one guy is spending, you know, X amount of money on one table and then he would be next to some guys who look like they just left the gym. It just isn't. It just doesn't make sense. And, and, you know, so, you know, we, there's. There is everyone. And I mean everyone, like, we've had, like, you know, I've. We have like, some people come in and celebrate their 80th birthday. You know, it really is massively diverse. But, you know, we want to also protect the venue and protect, you know, so anyone who looks like they've. They're too drunk, anyone who has, like, not dressed correctly, anyone who looks like they might not be safe, they find it very difficult to get in. And that is actually how you keep a venue exclusive. If you let anyone in. There's a lot of people actually that can afford to come to these nightclubs, more than you could ever imagine. Doesn't necessarily mean they're the right people to come in. If you've got a group of guys who genuinely look like drug dealers, they probably don't belong in your venue. Can they afford your venue? I'm sure they bloody can, but doesn't mean they're the right people to come in. So you've got to, you know, you've got to keep the door. I guess that's why everyone, you know, thinks, oh, it's so exclusive, so difficult to get into. And you Know if you open, if you, if you look at our venue on a Friday or Saturday night, there's 400 people queuing up. Right. To get in. And it's always nice to know someone or have someone, but you know, ultimately everyone's welcome. But just know that no, you know, you're not turning up to the cinema. You've got to dress appropriately and you've got to behave appropriately. That's pretty much the rules.

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Always feels good when you can somehow like you say, know someone or whatever and go past the key.

Flip flops will make an exception for you if you want to roll up with the schlops.

No, exactly. This is smart for me for a podcast to be fair. No, that's interesting. One thing I want to get onto then is I guess probably myself included, maybe a misconception about, you know, promoters, nightclub owners, whatever, whatever. And you've definitely changed that fading misconception of myself just in this conversation. But like, how does a day to day, sort of Monday to Friday then look for you? Because obviously as well, I want to get on to the. You've got this egg run as well you launched, I think last year, which obviously very different business, similar, but very.

Different time of day, clientele and target market and business model and everything.

Yes. So how does like a. Well, I guess Monday to Sunday, I can imagine it's pretty much seven days a week.

Yeah.

How does that look?

Yeah, it's. I'll be honest, it's. It's full on. So it's like I would, you know, most days I'm in meetings from like 10 and those meetings normally run to like 8 or 9pm and then I'll quickly go for like a dinner. If I'm with clients, I'll kind of go out for dinner first. If not, I'll go home and have dinner at home and then come back in. And then obviously you're out in the venues four or five nights a week, you know, until three, four in the morning.

Yeah.

Because so much of it is client facing and so much of it is, is managing a team and, you know, being there. So unfortunately the answer is that you do a lot of hours and in a weird way you're almost working two jobs because you have your daytime head where you're having meetings, you're doing financing, you know, you're, you're planning for the night and you have a whole different team who, who plan for the night and then, you know, you have the night time, which I suppose is the fun bit. But Actually can be incredibly stressful. You know, if you, you know, there's a hundred different things that can go wrong in a nightclub at night, and the most common one is just being overbooked. You know, how do you balance all these clients that are booked into your venue that you physically can't fit through the door? You know, how do you, how do you worked that out? And so, yeah, I'd say the is incredibly full on, but I would imagine most people who own a business work similar hours, you know that it becomes, it becomes what you eat, sleep and breathe.

Yeah.

And yet you don't, you don't ever really get much time off because, you know, you're, you become so passionate and so engulfed in making this thing the best thing it can be. I saw this amazing documentary recently about this, this kid who was like, he started dealing drugs online.

I saw that.

Yeah. And he was like doing it all through the postal system and stuff. And he got to the point where he's trying to fulfill thousands of orders a day. And in a weird way, I can relate not, not with the drug dealing part, sadly. But you know, you, you just start, you just start putting it, putting that thing in front of everything and you just start working every hour of the day because you just want it to be the best thing it can be. And then there has to be a point which I'm definitely at the moment, which is you got to try and find more balance because it's actually not healthy, you know, to just work all hours, every hours. How can you find just time to spend time with your loved ones, with your family? How can you find time to get some exercise in? How can you find time to switch off, Read a book, listen to a podcast? Like, what can you do to create balance? Because definitely with nightclubs, because it's day and night, but I would imagine with a lot of business owners, it can become all consuming and that's not a very healthy place to be. And actually you won't get much out of yourself because you're essentially half asleep most of the time. I would say most of the time I'm half of the sleep, I suppose.

I'm having a coffee at 10pm yeah.

Thank you for that. Thank you. 10pm coffee, which says everything, doesn't it? But a typical day is mostly meetings Monday to Friday during the day, and then at least four or five days a week, I'm out in the venue until late. And then even if you're not, you're at home and your body clock is already late and so the only day I really get off is. Is a sort of Sunday, because I'll have, you know, we'll finish it 4, 5, 6 o' clock in the morning on a Saturday, and then I'll wake up and I'll have half a day where I won't go out on a Sunday night and I won't have any meetings on Sunday. And, yeah, depending on the time of the year, I'll either go for, like a roast dinner or, you know, spend time with my girlfriend. So, you know, kind of reset. Yeah, reset on everything.

It is intense. So four or five nights a week in venues, are you. I'm assuming you're not drinking every night or.

Yeah, I almost never drink, actually.

Yeah.

Yeah. Which again, is another misconception. Right?

Like, yeah, that's why I asked, really.

Doing all the drugs and all the drinking and stuff. But actually, no, they're. They're serious businesses with massive, massive amount of money on the table. And so, yeah, you'll very rarely catch me drinking. And a lot of the time if I'm. If I am drinking, it'll be like sort of like pretend drinking.

So.

So, you know, it looks. It might look like I'm drinking, but those guys are really good at giving everyone a tequila shot. And I'll take an apple juice and, you know, swig it. I'll be like, whoa, that's crazy.

Oh, yeah.

So, yeah, you know, you have to play the game a little bit sometimes. But, you know, listen, I absolutely will have some, you know, one or two shots here and there and have a drink if someone I really like is in town. But, yeah, you can't be drinking four or five nights a week and expect to run, you know, a business of that size with that. That turns over that much money and that has that many employees, just. It's just impossible. You just burn out. So, you know, the hours. Enough. Sorry, the hours alone are enough to burn you out. And if you. If you're drinking on top of that, you're just. It's just a downward spiral. You'd lost six months and then you. You'd be in the ground, you'd be done. Yeah, which is why I've been sipping on this water.

Well, to be fair, I probably try and drink once. Well, probably was once a week prior to the podcast. Now maybe it's twice a week. My podcasting is used to drink red wine, ask invasive questions to my unexpecting guests. One thing we were speaking about then previously, which I guess was technically recorded, but wasn't in the right time. So I'll ask it again. And I was saying I can relate in an entrepreneurial sense, but it sounds like you definitely work more hours than I do and I guess just by default you're out a lot more, etc. Etc. How has that affected your personal relationships, I guess, particularly with girlfriend that you mentioned. And is that sustainable, do you think, just about finding the right type of person?

I think it's a combination of definitely finding the right kind of person. You need not just nightclubs, but any career you embark on. You need to find someone who supports you and understands whatever you're trying to achieve in a business sense. Or, or maybe you're trying to achieve stuff in a business sense to lead to kind of like personal security. Whatever it happens to be, you definitely need someone who is there who can like, lift you up if you're an entrepreneur, who can like kind of coax you when you're down and like trying to sort of tell you everything's going to be okay. Hugely, hugely, hugely important. I think probably one of the most, most important things is having someone who shares your goals and your dreams and understands why you're putting yourself through all of these crazy hours. And then, you know, the second part is, is finding balance. Yeah. You know, trying to find the time where you can switch your phone off. Trying to find the time where, you know, you can, you can spend a set allotted amount of time with each other and trying not to work 24, 7 all day every day and kind of reinforcing that they are the person or they are one of the major contributing factors to why you're trying to achieve the things that you're trying to achieve. So, yeah, I think it's super important, obviously, if you're. I'd say it's probably in some ways easier if you're. If you're single because, you know, then you can. It's only you that you're having to apologize to. But it can also then end up being quite, quite empty if you do achieve the things you want to achieve and you've got. You've got no one to share it with.

Yeah, very true. Did you meet a girlfriend in a nightclub?

I, funny enough, I met her outside a nightclub many, many, many years before we were together. And I thought she looked so cute and there was a really big queue and I thought, like, there's no way this girl should be queuing. So I said, you know, I tried to pull the card. It was way before I owned a nightclub. So I pulled the car like Hi. Do you want me to get you in? What a douchebag. Honestly. But how do you want me to get you in? So she came in and I was, you know, trying to be nice and then I sort of ran into her years and years later. But that was at least the icebreaker that we had at least sort of met one time before. So, yes, I technically met her in a nightclub, but. But no, thankfully. And also it, you know, it helps. My girlfriend is not a party girl. She's like the exact opposite of my lifestyle, which really, like, you know, if I, if I was with someone who was out every night and partying and loved it. Yeah, it would actually be. It would be a nightmare.

Yeah.

Because it's the fact that she is, you know, she would prefer to stay at home and snuggle in front of the fire and watch a movie, which is actually perfect. It's the perfect balance to my ridiculously crazy lifestyle. But that's actually exactly what, exactly what I need. And yeah, too much nightclub is never a good thing for anyone.

Yeah, definitely. I guess. Final broad question before we wrap up, kind of leading on from that is I know you've just opened Taboo. I think it was literally last week. Was it? What's the goal really? I suppose for all your venues and kind of you personally, like, is there a, you know, a longer term goal or in general way, where are you trying to take it all?

Yeah, I think the, the sort of short answer would be I think we can have a pretty substantial hospitality group within London and internationally where we offer multiple different venues to our clients. So the idea is eventually, I guess, you know, they can eat lunch with us, they can have dinner with us, they can party in our, in our nightclubs, they can eat in multiple ones of our restaurants and maybe one day they can sleep on our pillows, you know. So we create this like all encompassing ecosystem for all the clients that we know. I suppose in a bit of a way, like if you look at some case studies, if you look at the Tao Group in America, what they've done, or Dave Grutman with Live Story and group hospitality and things, you know, there's Richie Akiva sort of did it with oneok and things. You know, we think we can get to the size where we're not greedy and want to take every corner, but we can have a nice diverse portfolio of businesses that our clients can enjoy and come to us, you know, in multiple different ways. Not just, not just nightclubs.

Yeah. And I guess in the E commerce space and certainly something I Speak about with my mates a lot is, you know, I feel like the Holy Grail, like winning the Champions League. In my mind, entrepreneurial is like building a business to sell.

Like an exit.

Yeah. Is that something you strive for? Is it more?

Yeah, no, it's definitely something that's part of a conversation. I mean with Eggeron Small specifically, it's definitely, it's definitely with an exit in mind.

Yeah.

Because if we can grow that to 10, even 15 sites, you know, the, the multiples on the EBITDA can be really, you know, amazing for, for businesses in the grab and go space. But obviously such a different model to nightclubs. But I think that there's, you know, look, everyone wants to have a boat and like spend their, some like winter in the Bahamas. Right.

So yeah, of course we can always.

We can always dream. So I think, you know, to take it one step at a time. Right now we're just committed to opening each business one at a time. You know, we've got some, we've got a rooftop and a restaurant opening next year, another sort of lounge bar venue. So, you know, we're, we're got loads of things on the horizon that's going to keep us really busy and in the short term it's just, let's open these venues, make them the best that they can be and make them as successful as they can be. And then if at some point in the next five, seven, eight, ten years, we're looking at a massive portfolio of businesses and there's an option to exit, then of course that's great and we can have those conversations, but it's definitely not what drives us.

Then you can go spend 100 grand in rain on a Bottle, then there'll.

Be someone cooler than me opening a new nightclub and standing outside in line begging for a table.

Yeah, definitely.

Tell me 100 grand.

Yeah, I guess technically. One more question then, which I've asked a few people. It's so cliche but it's quite interesting. If you could speak to your, I guess, well, fucking 18 year old self then get into the space and it's a really cringey question, but it's also valuable. What would you say to yourself, obviously, 15 years since that point.

I think about this all the time by the way, and reflecting. Yeah, I think I would tell myself, I think I would reassure myself that if you just do, if you just go through things and keep your integrity and keep your morals and just try and conduct yourself with. I don't just be nice to people, it will get you so far because, you know, you don't have to be a bully, you don't have to be an aggressive dictator, you don't have to be a horrible person to be successful in business. You can just be nice and people will fight for you, if that makes sense. And then I suppose the other thing I, which kind of sort of links is that, you know, I would just reiterate to myself, I know it now, but I definitely didn't know it then. The most important thing you can do is just surround yourself with amazing people who all want the same thing I am. I get to be the front man, I suppose, and I get to, you know, shake people's hands and high five them and take all the applause. But none of it happens if there's not an army of people who are all working for, for me or for the group and who are all amazing at what they do. You know, like, we have graphic designers that I could never in a million years do what they do. We, I have, you know, we have. I have an accountant who does things with numbers. That blows my mind. You know, I have an ops director that works more hours than me, would you believe. And the things he does, like, it's just, it's all the unglamorous stuff. You know, we have some personalities and some, some members of staff, you know, on the floor, like, you know, some of our waiting team. And they're so unbelievably great at being host to people. They take what I started to the next level. And it gets to the point, like, all these people are so incredible at what they do, that in a weird way, yeah, you get to take all the glory, but they take what you started and they make it even more brilliant. And I wish, I don't know if I wish I knew. I've enjoyed figuring it out, but it would definitely be something, you know, slap myself. Listen, these people are, they're more important than anything. More important than your ego, more important than, you know, all the mistakes you're going to make. These people are the people who make you successful. They're the people who, you know, keep them close, treat them well. They, they go to war for you now. They, they'll bleed for you.

Yeah.

Getting dark now.

No, it's good, it's good.

Getting deep.

Yeah. Nice. It's advice I'm listening to as well. Definitely.

You can only do so much as a person. There's only 24 hours in a day. Then the, the, the thing that all the most successful, successful people do is they, they surround themselves with people who are brilliant at what they do and you know, almost build that team, you know, that's the biggest talent of an entrepreneur is how do you, you know, align yourself with people who want to fight for what you want to fight for.

Yeah, definitely. Good advice. Geez. And on that note, because I know you're going out to one of your venues, funnily enough, no surprise. Yeah, I guess we'll wrap up. But that's been super interesting because like I said at the start, it's probably the first entrepreneurial conversation in this pod that isn't to do with, you know, E Com digital marketing, certainly a market. I just an industry, I just don't know. So I've learned a lot. Probably smashed a lot of my preconceived stereotypes as well to be honest.

It's a tricky one, isn't it? Because the industry, industry. So yeah, people have a real view of what they. They see it as dirty or I'm not sure, I'm not sure what but it, it definitely is outdated, you know.

Yeah, definitely. Super interesting. Yeah And I guess I'm keen to see where you take it. I love to get. Get back in rain when I'm in a slightly better spot in a few months.

I do have 100000 pound table left this weekend if you.

Yeah, no, maybe, maybe, maybe next year maybe I've got a few mates who can pulled together a few strings but no cheers for listening YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music as usual. I guess I've not said previous episodes but yeah, just fucking recommend this to mates if you're enjoying it. To get surprising amount of DMs to be fair recently saying how much people liking the pod which does motivate me to do these and force people like Asha to come on against their will probably to an extent. But yeah, subscribe to the pod, share it around, appreciate you watching, listening wherever you are and we'll see you in the next episode. Cheers.