Corporate Slave to Online Money, Twitter Fame & Philosophy - David Hunter | Midnight Podcast Ep 46

I'll look through this one.

Oh, this one, yeah.

Anyone who wants to write a viral tweet, all you have to do is subtly attack a group of people who are very easily offended. Or J.K. molina said, you either. So. And it's the same thing in sales. You're either motivated by pleasure or pain. And you can attack a certain group of people or you can identify with a group of people. And you. What you do is you remove the nuance and you let people's brains associate and construe their own thought processes with the things that you say.

Right. We're back with episode 46. I think of the midnight pod, and I was gonna say the first ever American guest, but I think you're the second American guest because we had Jordan Welch, who's a big YouTuber.

I think I've heard of him.

You may or may not know. Yeah. A few months ago, you are probably the first guest specifically from Twitter, which kind of became like a Twitter bromance or something. And I went on your pod. The syndicate.

Yeah.

About a month ago, online, which is the first time we probably spoke. And you were a classic case for me of maybe have a preconceived idea of someone's character on Twitter and at their brand. And then I was pleasantly surprised. I appreciate the depth of conversation. And just you. And you're an intriguing character. And then you're in fucking Europe and you seem to be like, in Europe, what I've seen.

Yeah, man. So I've spent, I want to say, six months. No, maybe not six. Maybe four to anywhere from four to five months in Europe in the past year. Yeah, actually, so it's been a while year. I've been traveling a lot. I live full time in la, but I'm not even sure if I can call it full time at this point.

Yeah, yeah, full time, part time.

But yeah, I have my place in la, originally from Philadelphia, and for anyone who doesn't know where that is, don't go there. It's not the best place in the world.

Yeah.

But yeah, man, I've been over here. I kind of fell in love with it. So I have some family over in Italy and I'm kind of just bouncing around trying to see as much as possible before the. The 90 day visa runs out and have to pay a fine, so.

Yeah, exactly. And the first time in London.

Yeah, the first time in three days. Yeah, three days.

We had to get the pod in, Matt.

I had to come see you.

Exactly.

Had to come see you, bro.

It's going to be interesting, I guess. First question is always. We're diving to a billion different things, and we have a few questions on the iPad from Twitter as well. I guess, just like your background and story, because you've built. And I came across you on Twitter, you've built this personal brand on Twitter. I think, specifically, how long you been doing that? Was that. I think you said, like, a year or something on the previous show.

I believe actually this week it'll be a year where I actually started to take it seriously.

Yeah.

This. This year, maybe. I think it was August 13th or maybe August 12th. It was. It was legitimately this year. This week actually might be today that I've been doing this for a year.

It's always 12th today.

Yeah. So I've been doing this for a year. And it kind of started as a journal. And I think Twitter is a very interesting case where Twitter is the mind. Right?

Yeah.

Instagram is very vain. Vanity. What do you have? Who are you? How many girls do you have? What kind of car do you drive? How many followers? How much clout? And I think Twitter is an interesting platform because it's not based on vanity metrics. It's based around thoughts and something that's based around thoughts. You actually are able to, I think, develop a deeper connection with somebody because you get to actually see how their mind works. So I began to use Twitter as a journal. And I think if somebody was to scroll down all the way on my profile, they'll see like, my shit was getting, like, one. Like, when I was. I was still working in my sales job and I was still doing whatever the hell I was doing, and I was actually. I remember I sat on it for about two years, just figuring out, you know, seeing people come and go, how. How can I actually grow this platform? And if I ever wanted to grow a Twitter, what exactly would I do? What do I see people doing wrong? And I think that ability to reverse engineer is why I kind of exploded in the way that I did. So it's interesting, man. So I saw guys, you know, shouts out to Ty Frankel, because he's actually. And I think I told him this when I did when he was on my podcast. But, yeah, I saw him posting stuff that just wasn't right. It wasn't, like, necessarily correct. And I saw a couple other guys do that. And then also I saw guys like Dan Fazio, who's a good friend of mine. I saw a couple other guys just build massive, massive brands and build massive companies, Whether it was info, products, or education or, you know, email marketing agency, lead generation agencies, or even E commerce, right? And I saw these guys literally document, especially with Marco and Colton, who built Kill Crew, right? Like, see these guys literally build in real time. And I thought that was incredibly interesting. And when I started in the space, I saw guys talking about sales, right? Sales. How do you sell something? How do you do this? What is it that you're doing? And I found it very interesting because I felt like I could add to the conversation, and I felt like I knew more than the people who were teaching, and it turns out that I did. Right? So I got started, man. I started talking about my experiences in college, and, well, it's university for my European friends, but. But I started talking about my experiences, man, and it was. It was very fun. And I had a great time when I was in college, and I realized that's where I was going to be. That was kind of my lane, right? Talking to people, throwing parties, enjoying life, and, like, meeting as many people as possible. And I realized I was like, okay, well, if I can convince a pretty girl to come on a date with me, then I can definitely start talking to somebody and get some money. Yeah, right. So I did. I did an internship in, like, insurance and financial advisory sales when I was 21, for, like, three months. I got, like, one client, did, like, one deal, and I thought it wasn't for me. And so then I kind of got into the whole, you know, sales role, outbound, cold calling thing. And, you know, I did. Did all right. And I started talking about it on Twitter. And I think one of the most valuable things if you're trying to build a brand, especially on Twitter, where it's. It's. There's obviously video content, but you need to be able to articulate yourself in a certain way. I think if you're actually trying to build a brand on Twitter, you need to be able to tell a story. Every good movie, every good book that you remember, it was an incredible story. And you have to be able to blur the lines between the story that you tell and the actual value and the golden nuggets within that story that people can learn from. Because that's what I think creates impact. And I kind of did this unconsciously because I thought, you know, I was always gonna. I was always creative, and I thought I was gonna be a writer up until the time I went to college. And then I thought I was gonna play guitar and play in a band and do these. These things. But I've always kind of been a creative And I've always had the ability to weave a story together and kind of throw it right in your face and actually be able to have a couple lessons that people can learn from. And I think that's why Twitter kind of became a thing.

Yeah. Yeah. Twitter's interesting because I. I didn't even look at it until, I guess, nearly a year ago actually, as well. Like September 21, when I started the pod.

Yeah.

Because I used to think, who the fuck uses swear?

Yeah.

But then I was like, wait a minute. Like you said, it's for the mind instead of just flexing.

Yeah.

And like. Yeah. Just imagery. And everyone's guilty of it on Instagram because it's basically a dating app.

Yeah.

And it's an element of, like, granted, like, storing memories and shit. But it's primarily dating up. It's like a personal visual cv. Yeah. In this day and age, and without it, you barely exist.

Yeah, exactly.

This girl I just mentioned to you before, off camera, her Instagram account got disabled on Monday right out of nowhere. So she messages me and says, oh, can you fix it? Like, my life's over all this shit. I fixed it. But it's like, without an Instagram account, it's almost like you don't fucking exist in the modern world.

Yeah.

Without social media accounts, but particularly Instagram, I think.

Yeah.

Like, my brand accounts got disabled a few times, but if my personal account got disabled, that's a different story. That's worse.

Yeah.

And I'm someone that's trying to be less on social media. How come less on Instagram?

I see you posting, I see you on Instagram.

I mean, because I feel like it's just bad for the mind. I'm wasting time trying to. What am I actually trying to achieve on there? I guess it is a dating app and you're trying to build an element of brand around you. But then Twitter is more for that.

I think they can be used both in conjunction, actually. It depends on, like you said, what you're trying to achieve.

Yeah.

Right. Because it's interesting. Like, stuff like education, info products, like education companies, info products, personal branding stuff, it's all kind of weaved together. It's all integrated together. Right. So Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, all of those things can be weaved together. But if you were somebody who's actually doing real things in the business world, and not that, you know, obviously we're not, but if you're doing, like, something where you're doing, you're only selling B2B and you're you have an agency and you really don't need social media unless social media is a part of how you do your lead gen. I think you don't really need Instagram unless you want to use it as, like, a dating app. But I agree with you. I think it causes depression.

Yeah. This comparison is the thief. Thief of joy.

Seriously, fundamentally, if it was last year and not. Not last year, but like, maybe two, three years ago, and I see pictures of you riding around your 458Ferrari at like 22, and I'm still sitting there in college, I'm gonna be pissed off. I'm gonna be mad. I'm like, what? What's this guy doing? He's got a Ferrari.

Yeah.

Like, so I think it caused depression, especially for girls, because of all the editing that goes on. You got Face app, You got Facetune, you got Lightroom. People sell these Lightroom presets. They sell these presets that people can use. And it's just like, people take a picture and they will edit every single little detail to how they actually want to be. And then something in their mind, I think, triggers where it's like, that's how I want to be, but I'm not. And it causes a lot of insecurity. I want my lips to be bigger. I want my ass to be fatter. Like, I'm gonna look a little bit better. My eyelashes aren't long enough. My hair isn't long enough. My hair doesn't. Like, it's these weird psychological things and it creates a falsified self image. It's very strange.

It's a mad one.

We live in a strange world.

We do. And I want to go back to a bit more your background in a second. But I'm like, scared for this generation and probably the generation a bit younger that are like teenagers maybe, like, coming into their teens now.

Yeah.

Because it's getting worse. There's like tick tock now. Yeah. Where you're literally glued to a screen. Like, attention spans don't exist anymore. People can't focus. The comparison is getting worse and worse and worse because there's more time on social media. So where does it end? Like, I think, like, birth rates are going down and shit now because. Or something like that. And, like, testosterone levels of men are going down. These people are fucking glued to a screen all the time.

Yeah.

And like, there's no real relationships anymore because people don't have any interpersonal skills.

Yeah.

I like doing the pod in person. Yeah. Because it's like the principle of Doing shit in person, not on a screen for once.

It's interesting the, the lack of. We'll get back to my background in a second for sure, but I think the lack of interpersonal skills is what's going to, it's going to continue the way the world is going in a, in a generational decline. Right. Because I forget where I heard this, but like, if you think back like even 30 years ago, before we had all this even, you know, back in the 1990s, like when we were born, people had to talk to other people. If you called a girl on the phone, she gave you her phone number, you called her, you called her house on the phone, say, hey, meet me here and here. There wasn't any texting going on saying, hey, like, are you on your way or I'm on my way, like, no.

Getting ahead for three days.

Yeah. And so it's a very interesting situation where you can literally see the lack of interpersonal skills with, with younger children and teenagers these days. Right. Kids in high school now are walking around with. Walking around the halls with headphones in, sitting there on TikTok in class and can't focus for more than 15 seconds.

Yeah, it's crazy.

I mean like, no wonder why, no wonder why the world is going the way it's going. Very strange.

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Like, you know, it's interesting. And this is the last thing I'll say before we get back to the background. It's interesting, man. I was so. I just. Recently, I was in Naxos, Greece, with. With Luke Mason, Ben Bader, Danny, and some of the Twitter guys, like, some of my friends. And we rented out this villa. And I made it a point because usually every single day, I have about 9 to 10 hours of screen time on my phone. Like, I'm addicted to my phone because most of the things I do my business is on my phone. Right. I'm on calls or I'm texting people, or I'm on, you know, looking at things on Instagram. I'm looking at YouTube. I'm looking at Twitter. I'm seeing what people are doing. And when I was over there, I even like, going out. When we were going out to the club, I had every single day. It was less than three hours, and I made it. Hey, buddy.

He's very friendly.

And I made it a point to be a lot more present than I have been because I felt like my focus was off. And even though I was kind of like, drinking like a fish and I was partying like a rock star, it was very good, because when I got out of that, it was like, okay, now it's. Now I have my focus back. It was, like, very regenerative.

You can tell him to go away if you want. He always says hello to the guests.

He's fine.

Distracts everyone for, like, five minutes. You're not allergic, are you?

So it was. It was really cool. And I realized that when my screen time goes down, I'm a lot happier, but also less things get done. Yeah, right. I was just riding around on an atv, acting crazy, getting. Getting drunk at night, like, staying up till 8 in the morning. But it was great. And honestly, I think people need to go through that for. Especially if they're on their phone all the time, because it creates focus and it makes you pay more attention to the things going on around you and the conversations that you're having with people and staying present to the moment, which I think is incredibly important.

Yeah. So that's something I'm trying to do more, which is why I keep deleting Instagram, my phone. Just being more present in general. I think it's the biggest problem in my life is not being present. It's always living in the future. What's always next, next, next or I want the next experience or the next thing. But then like the only thing is now. I mean. Yeah, but now it's like Friday and I'm already thinking about what's happening next week.

Well, that's the.

Probably a poisonous tendency.

It's the double edged sword of running a business.

Yeah. And then it translates into other areas of life, like social life, whatever. Like I think about what I'm gonna be doing when I'm 30 and shit and it's like, just fucking live now.

Isn't that scary thinking about like, oh, like even like I just turned 25 three months ago and I'm like, oh, like I'm almost 30. Like shit.

Yeah. I'm 26 and I feel old.

I feel like your grandfather, bro.

Yeah. Yeah. Legit. No, it is scary, I think. Yeah. I mean, I'm like trying to read books about stoicism and shit and it helps a little bit.

Marcus Aurelius is good.

Yeah. I mean, I'm trying to meditate as well in general, but even that's tough.

Do you think that helps? He.

Probably. Probably.

What's he doing?

This fucking ball. I might have to get rid of this dog. It helps a little bit. I find it difficult because my mind is just moving a thousand miles an hour all the time.

Same.

Which is like really good and really bad.

Mm.

And I was saying this to this girl on a date last night. Actually, she's not listening to this. And yeah, it's like, it's a blessing and a curse. I think I have a lot of ideas and want to do a lot of things, but the same time I can never just switch off, or not even necessarily to switch off, but like be in the moment doing the one thing. See, when I'm trying to do one thing, I'm thinking about something else. Yeah, a lot, A lot of time.

Yeah.

I think that's probably becoming more and more of a challenge for everyone because of social media and being, you know, being online all the time. Yeah, it's like a blessing to be able to work online. All this shit. But I think it harvests that sort of tendency to just be awake all the time, be on all the time.

Yeah. And it's a. It's a stressful thing because. And, and the way that you. The way that I mitigate it, I honestly don't. And I feel constant like this all the time. And my mind is always racing about everything that needs to go on the future projects. But I think, you know, especially the break that I had where it's just like, you feel alive. Because when I feel. Like when we're working, when we're on our phone, it's very hard to feel alive unless you're making tons of money and you're getting that dopamine hit. But when, like, you're pre. I think when you're really in the moment, it's very hard to. It's very hard about to think about anything else.

Yeah.

Like, say you're. You've been running, right?

Yeah, a lot.

So when you're running and your brain is telling you to stop, but you keep going, you're not thinking about it, right. When you're doing that thing that you're really doing, you're really in it, you're not actually thinking about it.

Yeah, that's probably my meditation, actually, is running.

Exactly.

It's like, the only time where there's, like, enough other stuff going on. My body's pumping. And, like, the harder you go, the more meditative is.

Yeah, yeah, same thing with the gym.

Yeah, same thing with the gym, exactly.

But I think if you're not doing things that exhilarate you or push you to the limit, I think that you're in a constant state of. Think of being preoccupied. Of being preoccupied of preoccupation, which is an interesting thought. And I think most people live lives where they don't ever exhilarate themselves. They don't ever push. They never get to experience. I think I might have saw that on Twitter, actually. But, like, they don't ever push themselves to the limit of, like, what's possible. Like, can I actually do this right to the point of failure, where they're so in it that they're not thinking about anything else. And I think it's a good skill to have, too, because you can have 10 things going on with your business, with, you know, fitness, with girls, with your social life and everything. But I think it's important to kind of make a mental note. And this is something that I do all the time. If I'm. If I'm sitting here, right? And, like, when we're doing this podcast, like, I'm not thinking about what's going on, right? And I think you have to tell your brain to kind of shut off and kind of flick that switch when you know something is important or something is. It means. It means a lot, right? You're. It's a priority of yours. And so, like, you know, I can think back when I was doing some. Some, like, calls With. With some of the guys in my community. Right. And it's like I had so much stuff going on. Like, they were. Like, we were building the. The 2.0 version of our product, and, like, we're just this. This mode, this thing, this thing, this thing, this thing. But those 10, 15 minutes that I spent with each of those. Each of those people, I listened to what they were, what their problems were, what their questions were, and then I literally, like, I made it all about them because I was. And I was directly there. I wasn't sitting there thinking, oh, oh, yeah, this guy's talking. Kind of like tuning it out. And I think as people now, especially with this stuff that's going on with the attention span and everything, I think people have a tendency to tune things out for what's going on up here instead of what's going on right in front of.

Oh, so true. Yeah. I mean, I do it sometimes when I'm recording a pod, even. I'll be in the pod and I'm still there, but. But then I'm thinking about something. I don't know if someone said or. I'll probably even do it now a little bit. It's crazy.

You guys. You guys heard it here first. Matt actually doesn't care.

Yeah, I don't care. I just fucking come on here and, like, zone out. It's like therapy for me. Yeah, it's interesting.

You got a great setup here. I like it. I think I'm gonna have to upgrade.

The 2.0 setup is definitely better.

It's dope. It's dope. And I think I'm gonna have to upgrade the. From just doing the. Just the audio experience to maybe having some video.

Yeah, for sure.

I mean, Tokyo likes what I'm saying, I think.

Yeah. Christ, he's an annoying little dog. Let's go back to your background, then.

Yeah, absolutely.

Because we can get into loads of weird and wonderful shit prior to the whole Twitter thing.

Yeah.

The pod, your cash flow syndicate, all that stuff. Take us back to, like, 18 maybe, which is like, I guess, graduation age.

Yeah.

And kick him off in a second.

I don't want to. I don't want to listen. I don't want to be mean to your dog on camera. And then people are gonna start clipping it on TikTok and say that I abuse.

Yeah. He's so friendly to every guest. He just sits on the shoulder for, like, five minutes. Right? He's off.

Yes. 18. That was a weird fucking year. I curse on this podcast.

Right? Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, that Was a weird time. It was a weird year. I was. So. I was born in 1997, and I was born in May of 1997. So I think it works the same in the UK, but, like, there's a. So I was a year. Technically supposed to be a year younger than all of my classmates. So when everyone was 18 graduating high school, I was 7. I was still 17, or I was 17, and I just. Just turned 18 when I graduated high school. And I had. High school was a very interesting time for me. And not a lot of people know this because they kind of just see the final product. Right. But, like, it was. It was a very, very, very weird time. And that's. That would take me three hours to explain. But I'd gone through this. This kind of evolution process of really not knowing what the hell was going on, like, in my own life. I was. You know, I just started working out, I think, when I was, like, 14, and I started taking it seriously at 16, and I started playing lacrosse for my European friends. You guys probably don't know what that is. Yeah, it's. It's the Native American Indian sport. And my first year was junior year, my third year when I was 16, and then by senior year, I made. I was captain of the team. And in. In high school, I went to a school that you had to test into that was a feeder school to the University of Pennsylvania, which is a Ivy League in America. I obviously didn't go there, but we had a lot of really smart kids, a lot of really, really, really, really highly intelligent people. And I'd gone through this process of, like, I was, you know, I was always good at school, and I never had to try. I never studied for a test or an exam until I was in university, until I was in college. I never even. Never once did I study. Mm. And I. Great grades and I was good at school, but I just. Matt, you got bugs in here.

It's crazy.

So cleanly succumb more. Yeah, so I had. I'd kind of, like, started to change the way I dress, because I remember just, like, I would wear, like, basketball shorts and, like, baggy T shirts every day, and I was, like, really, really, really skinny. Like, dude. Like, in high school, I was about 6 foot 1, and I was about 120 pounds.

That's great.

Up until I was, like, 16, and then I started working out. I think I graduated high school about 140, and I took, like, training and, like, fitness really seriously. Got hurt on a. On a snowboarding trip with my School. First time I ever snowboarded. Excuse me, but I got hurt and I. And I think I sprained my back. And I had a lot of issues in my back, so I wasn't. And then I got, obviously, lacrosse, a very physical game. So I got hit a couple times, and my. My back really wasn't the same and I was suffering, like, a lot of, like a lot of problems. So I was out half the season with a back injury my first year. And then the work ethic that I took from school and like, you know, anything I had ever done, I put like 150%. I was very obsessed with it. So I'd play and I'd practice, you know, 10 hours a day. Combined with going to the gym, like, I would literally throw the ball at the wall till the lights came off and take shots and run and. And train every single day. So that year, after my back healed, the next year I was. I was, you know, as good as I possibly could have been. And it was literally every single day in the summer, every single day at night, every. Like, I would. I would watch film and I would do everything I possibly could. And I wanted to go to college to play it. The issue was, is I wasn't big enough because I was under. I was actually underweight. Even though I was like, training and like, you know, trying to eat as much as possible, I was underweight. And I'd only played one full year. And you get recruited the third year instead of senior year. And I kind of realized it just wasn't going to happen. And that's.

But.

But I knew I had the work ethic, so I started to get into other things. And when I'd fall asleep, I would watch Shark Tank every night. In high school, I would listen to Kevin o' Leary tell people their ideas are shit.

Yeah.

And I was very obsessed with this idea of entrepreneurship. And eventually I became it. It took a while, but eventually I became it. And I got very, very, very interested in business and kind of how to start a business. And I started learning, like, the fundamentals. And the summer before I went to college, I taught myself electrical engineering over the summer for fun.

Because.

Because I wanted to build a solar powered electric heater. So I was very interested. I was like. I was watching, like, Elon Musk interviews every night. I was watching Shark Tank. And like, yeah, I'm going to revolutionize the world. Like, this is going to be crazy. And then drew out a blueprint for it and realized it already existed. And then I went off to school and Actually, what's interesting about school is, especially in America. So I said, I sent an email to the academic advisor. Academic advisor. And I said, I want to be an entrepreneur. What classes do I need to take? And you know what they said?

Great advice.

They said, entrepreneurship. An entrepreneur is a title. We don't teach that here. If you want, I can mark you as undecided. I was like, okay, that works.

Yeah.

I said, I want to do business management. And they said, okay, well, business management is full. I said, okay, well, all right, just put me as undecided. And then I just did undecided random general education courses for like the first two years. And then I decided on finance because I was like, okay, well, at 19, do you know Wall Street Playboys? They've since rebranded. But I found this blog called Wall street playboys at 19. And it completely changed my life. Completely changed my life. It was like advice on how to get into investment banking. And then I kind of went that route. And that's why I chose the finance degree and everything. And it was cool. And I thought I wanted to be a banker. And looking back on it, I think I laughed because I went through a.

Bit of a phase like that after watching Wolf of Wall Street.

Yeah, you watch Wolf of Wall street when you're in high school and you want to sell stocks.

Yeah.

You want to be a banker, you want to go to investment banking. So it was cool. And I did that. And I think I graduated with a 2.7 GPA. Like, I got straight Cs because my sophomore year I knew I was like, I'm probably not going to do banking. And I think I'm probably just going to get into sales because they said you either do banking, you do sales, or like, that's kind of where your skills are. Like, if you're more analytical, banking is good. But if you're more synergistic, then you do sales.

Yeah.

So that's what I did. That's kind of the backstory. But high school was very interesting, man. It was like I changed the way I dress. I started, you know, upgrading the fashion, and it started to. And I started working out and I started to give me a lot of confidence.

When did you become an entrepreneur? Then you said that took a while. Was that like a. Did you like quit a job and then go to work for yourself? Or was it more so?

You know, everybody has not. And I don't want to say everybody, but so many people have their phase where they become a drop shipper.

Yeah.

They start watching. They start watching YouTube and they become a drop shipper. They start, you know, they download AliExpress and Oberlo and they're ready to go. So I started a couple of those when I was 19. And I was. I remember like talking to like Chinese suppliers and like at this time that I had like 70 bucks, maybe $70. And I'm talking to this Chinese supplier because the company Movement watches, I remember they were. They were. They were straight up. They built a crazy D2C brand off of. Off of. Just straight up, like, Chinese watch.

Yeah, legit.

And I remember getting like, bro, like, I remember getting a. Like a PDF of like, what kind of samples they can make. And it literally had the Movement logo on there. I was like, what the fuck? I was like, what? Like, this is their supplier. It's like $3 for these $200 watches. And so I learned. So and I started really studying the game and I learned branding. I learned what. And I was obviously into fashion still. And I was really like, kind of subsequently looking back on it, I was really thinking about, like, what makes a good brand? What are the elements of good brands? Why do brands succeed? Right. What is the marketing behind those? Why are these ads converting in this way? And like, and I was, dude, like, I was like, you know, studying like Facebook, Facebook ads and everything and learning how to do it. Learning how to do it. And I started like a drop shipping store when I was 19. And I remember my idea was I had $70 and I was gonna order samples from China and I was gonna sell them to my friends for 100 bucks each. And then I would have $700 and then I could buy another 20 and then sell them again to my friends and then start selling online. So I was gonna go like, straight hustling.

Yeah.

And obviously for. For reasons I don't even think I need to say, that didn't work out. And I actually ended up doing it like straight direct to consumer with, you know, AliExpress products with a friend of mine, Nick, who has a really cool Facebook ads agency for high ticket offers now. And he's quite successful. He's cool. And we kind of started in the game of like drop shipping. We were like 19 and 20, like just running face, like turned on Facebook ads from the. From the dining hall.

Yeah.

And classic. At 21, I had another idea and I was selling blue light glasses, actually. And because I was studying finance, I decided to use that as like my marketing angle and one of the biggest companies. And I told the story on Twitter, but I can Tell the story. One of the biggest companies in the game is a company called Felix Gray. And I will openly say these guys are losers. Because I'm like a 20, I'm like a 20, 21 year old kid. I'm like trying to, trying to make a, make a buck online. And I was running ads and I got a cease and desist letter from Felix Gray entered like Felix Gray International Limited Company saying that you're, you're infringing on our copyright of our brand story.

Mmm.

And they sent me my whole website and like I was running everything anonymously, bro. Like, I'm just like, I'm like, yo, if I get sued, I'm fucked. Like, yeah. But they slapped me with cease and desist letter. And I knew it was up because up until that point I had spent like. I remember I told the school, I was like, yeah, like they sent me like my refund for like my books or something for like one of the student loans. Dude, I had fifteen hundred dollars. I'm like, I'm starting a business. Yeah, I'm doing this thing for real. I'm starting a business. I'm gonna be a millionaire. I'm gonna get rich. And it was interesting, man. So I started that and it was like three months, four months of like really trying to work on this brand that I had built that did like, it wasn't really doing anything. Maybe like 500, $700 a month in sales. And I was spending all. I was like, I was losing money like running the ads and everything. So you know how it goes. So and then I got the cease and desist letter and at some point in this story, my laptop broke and I hadn't and I didn't. And it was either continue running advertising or buying a computer. So I would sneak into the school building after hours at like 10 and I would work till 7. And I was up all night. And I was up all night and I was studying like Jason Capital sales letters. I was studying like all like straight up old school copywriting. I'm like, what am I going to do to make, make these, these ads work? I was like, I know the product sells. These other companies are doing it. What is the issue with me, right? Why is my stuff not working? I think when you get into business, right, like you kind of. What's that curve? I think it's, it's not dunning Kruger, but it's like it's done, it's done in Kruger.

Yeah, it's a huge, all the time.

Like, dude, you think everything is going to go, yeah, the way that it's going to. You're like, yeah, I'm going to be rich. This is my thing. This is going to hit. Like, yo, this thing's. This shit's going to pop, right? Been there and it doesn't pop. And you're sitting there with your dick in your hand and you're like, what's going on? Like, why am I not working? All These guys on YouTube seem to be crushing it. They're making $16,000. 16 grand a day. I remember I saw. Actually shouts out to Sebastian, Georgie. I saw Sebastian's video and he was like, I made 16 grand in a day. And I'm like, man, I want to do this too.

Yeah.

And I was like, damn. Like, what? Like, what is going on? And I. The word that I don't want to use is like, depression. But, dude, that shit was stressful. And on top of that, I had all the schoolwork and I was about to finish and everything and I wanted to get that done. So I was. I was overworked and underpaid. Like most people listen, like most people in the world right now, they're overworked and other paid. So that was the story, man. And like, that was like kind of, you know, high school and university. But I think I really kind of got the itch when I was 19 and I kind of started to put it into action. I was 19. I didn't have really my. I guess I can say I had my first business success when I was 19 because of, you know, the party house and throwing parties and charging, you know, $5, $10 a cup and entry and everything.

Yeah.

And that's kind of how I bought my clothes and paid for stuff and bought food. There's a whole lot that I'm kind of leaving out there because it's a very long story.

Yeah, I was gonna say I'm still trying to work out because that's what. You're 19?

Yeah.

What about. Yeah, four years. So in terms of the cash flow syndicate then and the stuff you're working on now, when did that start?

October of last year. First week of October last year. And so I've done a lot of things, right. So like, my kind of foray into E commerce was when I was 19, 20, and then like, I kind of ran out of money a couple times and I was like, oh, fuck it. Like, whatever. I went to go work the insurance sales, financial advisory, wealth management, internship at 21. And like, I pretty much, like, I was dead broke, dude. Like, I Was broke. Like, I went to go work at a bar. I was like bar backing for like 80 bucks a night. 13 hour shifts till 3, 4 in the morning every night. Like, I was, I was like dead broke. But my friend, when I graduated, when I graduated, because I was like, I want to try this thing again. And I had like, pretty much no money. And I called my boy up, who was a bodybuilder, and I said, bro, like, you know, obviously, let's. Let's start selling fitness programs online. So threw up a Shopify site, figured out, got a plugin to, to send an email PDF to someone after they purchased. And we, we started this company that was selling fitness info products to guide to men and women. And then we got into like, you know, T shirt, like apparel and everything. And I think the total sale, the total sales like I don't even think were like 10 grand, but it was still something. It was like, it was more than I had before. And I remember literally like stealing money from my own company to like be able to eat could because we were like, we, me and my friend agreed. We were like, yo, like, let's keep the money in the, in the business bank account. Let's not touch it. Let's use it to grow the business. And like, I was like, yo, like, I need to eat, bro. Like, I'm starving.

Yeah.

And I was like, I was like 20. I was still 21. I was living it. I was living back at my mom's after, after college. And I was just like, yeah, this sucks. So spent that summer just kind of like figuring out what I was going to do. I knew that, like, I knew I wanted to try sales again because I didn't think I was gonna be good at it because I didn't really have much success doing the insurance thing, but like, you're pretty much setting appointments for other guys to close the deal and then maybe they give you a kickback, right? So their whole, the whole business model is let's get a bunch of young, hungry college kids who want to make money and burn them as fast as possible. And those who stay, stay. Right. It's a very high volume outbound sales job. And one of my best friends, Jason, he ended up getting a job working for a giant company. I'm not going to say the name of the company, but working for a Fortune 100 company doing sales. And I call him on the phone and it's like the beginning of August. I said like, yo, Jace, like, how much did you make? And he's like, yeah, I Think I'm gonna make $4,000 this month. And I was like, what? $4,000? Like, that's insane. And he's like, yeah. And I said, can you get me an interview? And the next month I got an interview. And I was still, obviously still doing like the, you know, the online, like, fitness program thing at the time was making a little bit of money. I was making like a couple hundred dollars, like a week and get this interview. I remember I had to wake up at, I think 5 o' clock in the morning, got dressed, I took a bus to the. To the. The tube, the subway, the tube to a train to. And then took the train for two hours. And then finally I got to where I needed to be and I went to the office. My friend picked me up. It was like 12, it was like 8, 8, 9 in the morning. And I went in for the interview, went into the interview, and I crushed it. And at the end of the interview, I said, hey, yeah, like, my friend, he works here, he's in your outbound sales department. And they said, what? We didn't even know that. Why didn't you tell. Why didn't they tell us that? And so I got the job the next day.

Crazy.

And that was hard, man. Like, that. It was a lot. And I went through so many different phases where I didn't think I was gonna. Especially for, like the first three months, like, I thought I sucked. Everyone was kind of like running laps around me. And this is something like that. A lot of I'm looking at the camera like there's something a lot of salespeople don't talk about. And it's when you first get started, like when you first get started in sales. I'm gonna say this a little bit bombastically. You have to understand that there is a learning curve. There's absolutely a learning curve in anything that you do, whether it's E commerce, business, fitness, whatever it is you think you're not. You're going to think you're going to crush it. I was like, yeah, I'm gonna come in and make 20 grand a month. I'm gonna hustle 200 calls a day. Yeah, everything's gonna go great. I'm gonna be the best at this. I watched Jordan Belfort Sales, sales program. I remember torrenting it off the Internet. And I was like, okay, I got the skills, now I'm ready to go. I was in for a rude fucking awakening. And first month didn't even hit. Didn't hit my sales goal. I missed the sales goal. By, I think, like, a couple deals. Second month, I missed the sales goal by a couple deals. Third month, I remember it was December. I hit the sales goal. And I remember being sick for two weeks in December, and I'd, like strep throat the entire time. And I was like, sick. I was like. But I still came into work, and it was an hour commute each way, right? And so my total work time is like. And I would stay late. I would get in there, like, you know, half hour, 15 minutes early, check my email and everything, stay late. But I remember my paycheck from that month from December. And I. And I, I. I beat, you know, beat sales goal. And I was just like, wow. Like, okay, it's possible. And that was the moment that it clicked. And I remember we had a spreadsheet, and it was like, commission calculator. Like, and you type in all your numbers. You know, what's your sales goal? How many deals did you. How many deals did you sell? You know, what was your.

Your.

Your phone call quality, Your compliance quality? And it said total payout. It was like 13 and a half grand. And then I was just like, man, like, what?

Yeah, it's a big boat because I.

Was just getting, like, my hourly. Like, I was like, you know, it was like, two, three grand a month. And like, I said, like. But literally, like, that month where I had hit the sales goal, I had got a. I'd gotten, like, a $35,000 car, the car that I still have to this day, and, like, a decent apartment in Philly, which was like, two grand. And I was splitting the rent with my ex girlfriend at the time. And I obviously had the car payments, my living expenses. Like, I was like, barely making enough for my living expenses, like, the first two months. And I, like, really put my back against the wall. And I think that's something everyone needs to do to a certain degree. Like, really put your back against wall. And I remember, like, I put the down payment on the place, you know, put the, you know, the car and everything. I had, like, 500 bucks left for the month, for a couple weeks. I'm like, I don't know. I don't know what's about to happen here. So put my back up against the wall. And then that's why I hustled as hard as I did, and it was like, 13k payout. Sick. Oh, shit. I remember I looked at my. I genuinely remember this day. It was at the end of January because the commissions fell on the end of the month. And I'm like, fuck. Like I looked at my bank, I had like 11 and a half grand in there and I was like, man, I am rich.

Yeah.

And now that's, now things are a lot different. That doesn't even probably cover half of my expenses per month at this point. But yeah, so that's kind of the story. And every single day it was, you know, until I moved closer to make my commute shorter. It was, you know, an hour up, wake up at 6:30, get there at, you know, depending on traffic. How it was was like at 30, work until work until 6, 7 o' clock at night. It was 9 to 6 every single day. No one took a lunch. There was a culture of no one taking a lunch. And it actually, and I actually liked it because it forced you to sit your ass in the seat and work. It forced you to pay attention and it forced you to, to really, when you're doing something, to really be in it. And I already had the work ethic and I knew I was going to be. I knew at some point something would click. And I had some really, really, really good mentors there. My sales manager was, it was so not my, not my first manager, but the one who was above her was honestly, I think one of the best salespeople I've ever met my entire life. I think he could outsell. He could sell ice to the Eskimos in, during the ice age, to the Arabs. He was, he could sell oil to the Saudis, bro.

Yeah.

Like he honestly. And I, and I want to try to get him on my podcast. I don't know if he's going to see this, but he was, I think, the driving factor and I still thank him to this day. I texted him a couple months ago and I just thanked him for everything. I was like, you know, I just gave an update and he literally, I remember we used to have like our one on one coachings and like he, I think was the driving force behind all of my success and obviously I made it happen for myself. But the things that I learned, the tactical ability, the tonality, the way that you, you speak to people and everything like that. And I heard him, you know, take some calls from me like, you know, if I was having trouble closing a deal with customer, and I was like, whoa. And then I started to replicate it and that's kind of where everything came from. So it was a good time. Something. It's, it's actually the best time I've ever had that I would never do again.

Yeah, that's interesting.

It's an interesting. It's been an interesting journey.

Yeah. A lot I didn't know about particular the E Comm stuff. I swear I don't think we covered that on your pod. I guess it was.

I think we ran out of time.

Yeah, that was like two and a half hours. So bring us up to today then. Yeah, I guess there's a bunch of chapters. I like to go chronologically.

So during. I think I'm gonna leave that part out. But I did have a little bit of a side career while I was still at the. At the sales shop, I was still hustling and I kind of quit the fitness business. I went into something else, turned over a lot of money. And then I realized I was like, you know what, I don't want to. I want to own 100% of the thing that I'm doing. And I knew that I was competent at sales. I knew that I was good. And I knew that if I put in the same level of effort to building my own shit that I am at my job, I knew that I could build something. And I was, I believe it was. I had the idea, I think in October 2020, but I was already doing like some other things and I was kind of caught up, but I had the idea and I was like, okay, well, I know how to do e commerce, I know how to do email marketing.

I know how to.

I know how this stuff works. If I can sell this service and figure out how to do it after, I can sell the customer, figure out how to do it, and if I can deliver results, I'll offer 100% money back guarantee refund for anybody that I work with. And I'll be like, okay. So I started out in an email and I had like a little bit of an agency and I got a client here, client there, and like, it wasn't anything like crazy. I wasn't going full time with it because I was working a full time job and I was doing the other thing on the side. And I was like, okay, well, I know that this is possible. And so I moved out to California last year in February and March with my best friend who's a music producer, shouts out to Jack, love you, brother. And I moved out there and I kind of built the infrastructure for everything. I learned, I learned how to do like marketing and I learned, you know, I watched pretty much how everyone was moving on Twitter and this is when I really started to dive deep into Twitter and how Twitter worked and how social media worked and how to cultivate attention, how to use different words and structure, different ideas in a certain way to get attention. And I knew that it could have been a possibility. And I taught myself so much stuff. Just locked in this apartment for 40 something days. 50 days. Moved back to Philly for two months. Absolutely crushed it. I had a month. I think I made 32 grand across the sales job and some. Some crypto trading and stock trading. And I saw this video from a guy named Christian LeBlanc who has a travel channel, and it was like. And the video was about. He said if. If it was my last day on earth, this would be my message. And he's talking about how during this entire time, like, he was, like, working this accounting job and he was depressed and he didn't like it. And I was. I was so over what I was doing, man. Like, I was so over it, and I didn't like it anymore. I didn't feel fulfilled. Because once you start. Like, once when you're dead broke and you start making money, you start to feel fulfilled by the money, but at a certain point, the money doesn't fulfill you anymore. It doesn't hit the same as it used to.

Yeah. So that's very topical.

Seriously. And it doesn't hit the same that it used to. So I'm like, fuck. Like, all right. Like, and I had. And I had money, and I had saved up because my living expenses were so low and I was making a lot of money. I remember hearing Christian LeBlanc in this video talking about, I had $2,000 saved up, and I went to. And I booked my ticket to Thailand.

Yeah.

And I booked my ticket to Thailand. And I lived and I. And I built my business on two. And I'm looking at. I checked the accounts, and I'm like, bro, this guy moved to Thailand on 2 grand. I'm like, yo, I got 120 in here, and I'm feeling like I'm fucking broke. So. And I had it. It was, like, completely liquid. It was, like sitting. And it was like, sitting across, like, a liquid stock account that was just my company stock that they paid out to me because I contributed to the plan. And. And then it was like. It was. It was just a ton of. Ton of cash just literally sitting in my. In my checking account. And I'm like, yo, like, I'm not happy. And I really struggled with my happiness. I felt completely unfulfilled, and the money wasn't. And I was like, yeah, like, money, money, money. Like, oh, yeah, I want to get rich. And then I kind of realized, like, making A buck. Like, you know, making like 150k a year wasn't doing it for me. And I never thought I would hit that because when I was in, when I was 19, I remember I wrote down in a journal what I wanted by the time I was 22. And I had all this stuff by like 22, 23.

Yeah.

I wanted like a nice apartment with, with mahogany floors and I wanted floor to ceiling windows and I wanted a nice car and I wanted like, you know, I wanted a pretty girl and I got all of it. And it took me like six months to achieve. And I was like, where do I go from here?

Yeah.

And I was completely unhappy, dude. So I'm like, fuck. Like I need to do something. So I broke up with the girl in February of that, of 2020. And then I moved. I moved to LA two months. Children. My boy. Because I needed my friend. Because I was just like, yo, dude, I'm going through it.

Yeah.

And where I actually went to. I quit the job June 18th of 2021. So it's, it was my one year anniversary a couple months ago.

Yeah.

And it's that it's been a wild fucking year. And I kind of just made the decision. I'm like, dude, I got, I got a couple of years of living expenses in the bank account. Like I don't fucking care. I'm like, yeah, like what's the worst that can happen? I go back to Philly and I figure out my next plan with years of sales, sales ability and tens of millions of dollars under my belt and revenue generation, like, what's the worst that could possibly happen to me? I go to Mercedes Benz, I make 200k.

Yeah.

Start slinging cars, start slinging G wagons.

Exactly.

So like and, and that's, that was my thought process. So I kind of realized I'm like, fuck, dude, like at the end of the day, like, you have to, you have to do what you have to do kind of what your heart wants you to do at a certain point. Things that, the things that you wanted becomes, become the things you hate.

Yeah, that's very true.

And so I needed some time to think and I called and actually the turning point when I realized I was going to quit the job. So after I had that monster month, and that was April, by that May, that was when all the money hit and I was dead sick, like strep throat for 20 something days, 30 days out of the month.

Could.

I couldn't work. Like I couldn't, like I could. I let it. So I Let it sit for, like, a week and a half, and I didn't get medicine for it, and it was like, bro, I couldn't speak and had, like, a fever, and. And I was just like. And I thought that it was the universe telling me that it's time to do something else, because sometimes life. Sometimes life hits you in strange ways. It'll tell you, you know, this is not the right thing for you. You're not doing the right thing, or, you know, it's time to make a change. And I'm like, well, my. My entire livelihood relies on my ability to speak and my ability to talk to people. And it's. And. And the world, the universe, whatever powers that may be, have taken that away from me. Maybe it's time to do something different. Then there's some stuff that went on in the company we had. We got a new sales director, and then they cut commission by, like, 75%. So even. So, if you sold, like, 2 million, $2 million in revenue, you were getting paid, like, 3 grand instead of, like, 10, 12, 15, whatever the fuck it was. So they cut commission, and then they were like, okay, well, yeah, you're gonna have to work these cold leads that haven't been called in three years and try to. And sell them product, and we're not gonna change the sales quota. And just. Guys just got to live with it. So I'm like, yeah, fuck it, I'm out. So quit. And then that was on a Friday. And then that next Thursday, I was on a flight to Mykonos.

Good place to go.

Good place to go. So. And then I spent two and a half months over here just trolling around Europe. I think I went to five different countries and just had a fucking blast. And I. I spared quite literally no expense, and I blew through, like, 30 grand in, like, two and a half months. Like. And in the grand scheme of things, like, on, like, lifestyle, just, like, living and, like, partying and having a good time. Like, it's honestly not that. That much based on, like, what I was doing, but, like, we went to Croatia, we went to Greece. I lived in Naxos for a month, which is why I brought all my friends there.

Yeah.

So I went to Prague, went to Czech Republic, Italy, and had a great time, and I. And I really showed myself, and I felt like I owed it to myself to see what life would look like when money is not an option. When you live, when you're completely free, you have nobody breathing down your neck. You have no manager telling you that you need to Be doing something. There's. You're completely responsible and accountable for yourself and you're a free man. And that's what that taught me. Because I never experienced life to that degree because there was always. I was always like, oh, I gotta get paid.

Never will.

And most people never will. Exactly.

But I think it's definitely an interesting perspective when what you said before. But most people, when they start, they're driven by. They want to get a few materialistic things. They're driven by money. And then, you know, a percentage of people achieve that. Usually it's, you know, the car, the way you live, whatever. Yeah. Kind of very clear goals that can be ticked off in a less. Like, they're not like spiritual goals, whatever. They're just like, I want that car and I get it. And. And then you realize I fuck.

Yeah.

That doesn't actually make me happy. And then you experience the other side. A bit of like the physical freedom, time freedom. Been able to travel, which I've done loads of over the years.

Yeah.

And then even that. Like I've had a bit of a dilemma recently around like I was in Mykonos and I was like, I'm not even enjoying being here.

How come?

Because it just felt like another trip. It lost this. The element of being special.

Yeah.

And then it's like with anything if you do it. A lot of times I think Danvers Aaron speaks about on a much higher level. Like if you live in the hundred million pound house every day, then it's no longer special.

No.

So when I first moved to London and lived in this flat over there, which actually like the sickest flyover better than this one. But I remember for like the first month it was so sick.

Yeah.

And then it got less and less exciting and special after that. And then it was like, oh, the bars now higher. So now anywhere else is not as cool and doesn't even have the ability to make me excited.

Yeah.

So it's like. It's kind of dangerous. You have to like. You have to leave something to pursue. Whether it's experiential or physical or like materialistic. But then I think what it comes down to is that ultimately the things that actually fulfill you are like people and relationships. And granted like money and freedom of course helps. But like even just like conversations and shit.

Yeah.

I don't know. So I'm really trying to figure out.

Yeah.

Because I'm having like a quarter life crisis.

I think you're. I think you're gonna be okay. I think you've got Very good friends, me and me included. But I think you're. I think you'll be alright. But it's like, you know, to your point, it's like, it's like driving a Ferrari and then downgrading to the bus.

Yeah.

Like now you were, you were driving a Ferrari and now you're taking a bus. So you have to kind of manage the. And it's like, I think Dan Bilzerian said it. Said it great. He said, yeah, I was at a 10 when I bought the new Ferrari. But then, you know, you drive it every day and now it's like, I gotta go buy a new one to get to that same level of happiness.

Yeah. And then suddenly you have to have a Bugatti to be at a 10. And then like, where'd you go from there?

And it's like, it's. It's this constant struggle of always finding a new mountain to climb. But when the mountain gets really big, you have to continue doing it. It's interesting, but honestly, like, I've traveled a lot in the past year. I think I've flown about 60 times, 70 times in the past year. Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit. I think on Twitter. I think I put it out on Twitter. I think was like 43 or 48.

Yeah, it's a lot, though.

It's 12 months, bro. That's like one a week. Yeah, that's like one a week. So especially like when you're not home or you don't feel like a place is home, it feels like another trip, right? Or actually, I think you guys in Europe are kind of spoiled. Well, I guess I can't call the UK Europe anymore. Yeah, I think you guys over on this side of the pond are very spoiled because you have everything within two to three hours of each other.

That's what I say.

It's. It's a quick flight to Miami. Yeah. So I think the. Thing that's very important, it's very interesting to me is like as an American, when I was coming over, it's like, you got to get ready. You take like an 11. It's like an 11 hour international flight you get in this airport, but then you have to go somewhere else. So it's like this whole kind of experience. It's like, dude, you can go down to Heathrow or go over to Stansted or Gatwick or Luton and just. All right, I'm in Mykonos in two hours direct flight. Or I'm in, I'm in Ibiza.

Yeah.

Or Ibiza. For uk, yes. But it's like. It's. It's like. It's very interesting because if I lived. That's one of the reasons I want to live over here, is because everything that. Everywhere that I want to go, and most places are within three hours, four hours. Dubai is five hours. I'm used to that. Flight Philly to la, it's six hours. I'm used to that. So there's so much more, I think, to do because of the. The melting pot of cultures that exist. Whereas in America, it's like, my Cousin, who's like 60 years old, said it best. He's like, if you go over to the next town in Italy, the compute.

The.

The total. The food is completely different. The dialect, the food, everything is completely different. You go to America, you go to San Francisco, you get a burger, you go to New New York. What do you get is, like a burger? And it's the same thing. It's the androgy. Androgyny, yeah. It's. Is that the right word?

You've been here full time and I'm.

Working on it, bro. I'm working on. I'm working on the Italian passport by descent. So I'm working on that. I got to get some documents, more documents together. It's. The whole residency, citizenship thing is a headache. But, yeah, either that or Prague. But I do like London. I don't know.

I think London's the one thing overall, particularly in summer. It's very good in summer, very good weather, a good blend of things. It gets a lot of hate on.

Twitter, but it does get a lot.

Of hate on Twitter from people that have only ever stayed in, like, Brixton, which is, like.

Everyone's been making a joke. Everyone I've been hanging out with has been making jokes about Brixton.

Yeah.

What's wrong with Brixton?

It's just rough, you know, I can't say I hang out that much, but clearly.

So, yeah, so I. I came over here, man. It's just like. And it's a very long story to tell, which is, like, why I try to, like, skip parts and, like, avoid telling the story. It's just like. It's because it's very easy to just. It's very short and to the point and succinct to just kind of show the final product. But, yeah, I came over here and I lived. Like, money was not an option. I blew through, like, 30 racks and I went back to America and I started. I was like, yeah, I guess I'm gonna do the email thing full time. And I started doing that. And then actually I started building the Twitter because my friend Ricardo gave me a random shout out. I got like 500 followers overnight on Twitter, and I was like, all right, what? And then by the time I come back from Europe, I had a thousand. I was like, what? I had like, a thread pop. My first real, like, thread. Like, how I made a hundred. My. How I. How I made my first hundred thousand dollars selling red cups. Right. Which is about the story of me throwing parties in college. And even though we only made, like, 10, 20 grand in, like, the whole time, it gave me the skills.

Yeah.

To learn to figure out, like, it gave me all the necessary things to, like, learn how to get into sales and, like, learn how to talk to people and how to say yes, how to say no, how to let people. Like. And so the same skills that you use when you're. You're running the door at a club or a party are the same that you use to talk to customers and clients and. And talk and call people over the phone and pitch people, hey, come to my party. Hey, do this. Whatever. So it was. Got like 5, 300, 400 likes or something. And then I was like, oh, shit, I got something here. And I got followed by, like, all the big, like, all of the guys, like, I'm now friends with, like, all of the big accounts. And I'm like, oh, I guess something popped off. So that was cool.

But.

And then I kind of realized Twitter was gonna be a thing. And then I. When I moved out to. I had already gotten an apartment in la and I moved out with my best friend, and I got. I put my mattress on the floor, and I had a folding chair and a desk, and I built everything that I have now. So that's kind of. That's kind of the story. That's. That's up to speed. And then we built Cashless Syndicate, because Twitter spaces are where I kind of really develop. I love. I love the. The live format, and that's why I like doing podcasts so much, is because the live format of when you're able to kind of tell a story and answer questions and convey your personality.

Yeah.

Directly with somebody, like, in. Almost as. As close to in person as you can get in that live format. I think it's a beautiful thing, and I think it builds so much of your reputation. And for anyone who wants to build a brand, make sure you are talking to the people that are following you, the people that are engaging with you in some sort of live format where they can actually get to know you and they can hear you speak. And because it's very easy, I think especially with video editing to record something and make it sound good or make it look good. But if you're on the fly and they're talking to you on the phone, it's a lot different than cutting up a video and making it look pretty. So that's how I built kind of that, that really tight knit follow like initial group of followers. And then we realized that we were doing it for like a week, two weeks. And I had this idea, I got all the, the email, the guys I knew who did like email marketing and like a group chat. I was like, hey, like we should share ideas. And I was like, hey, we should make a group that we should charge for this. And then like I realized I didn't want to split it eight ways and I called the best person that I knew who I knew was doing it and I called Mason. And then Cash Flow Syndicate was born.

Sick.

So.

What the fuck is this? Space goods spacegoods.com Rainbow Dust version one. My newest entrepreneurial econ brand venture. I spent six, six months in the trenches building this shit from scratch. We launched six weeks ago. What's it all about? The next generation wellness brand with a long term vision to essentially consumerize the pending psychedelic consumer goods market. Which might sound absolutely ridiculous, we're not quite there yet. The market's massively illegal. But what is this? Rainbow dust version 1 is an all in one mushroom and adaptogenic blend designed to unlock your supernatural self. Essentially experience a sharper focus, sustained energy, zen like calm throughout the day. It's an all in one powder. Tastes like fucking hot chocolate. Tastes delicious, works great, looks great, feels amazing. Essentially the broader concept here was to legally imitate a psychedelic microdose and like I said, experience those symptoms. You can mix it with anything, brownies, bake brownies with it, mix it with your coffee, have it without coffee, replace your coffee, put it into a protein shake. It's super fucking versatile. It tastes great. It replaces the stack of supplements I was previously taking. But you need to try this shit. It would definitely change the way you work, get you into that deep workflow. Obviously. Think that myself, plenty of thousand plus first customers think the exact same shit. It's not just a pretty packaging, it actually works really fucking well. Keto, vegan, all that good shit. Trust me, you need to try it for yourself. Let's scale this shit to the moon. Spacegoods.com get on your rainbow Dust subscription and see how you fucking feel. Let's do it for the boys. Spacegoods.com.

Right.

So we spent an hour on the. On the story up to now.

Yeah.

Which is good. Just bring that mic in a little bit more. Yeah. Like, pull it towards you. That's fine. It's probably fine. Yeah. Most people give me, like, 15 minutes of a story, but I feel like we could probably have gone fucking two hours on the story itself.

Yeah, that's my problem, bro. People say I talk too much.

It's good, though. I think Jordan Peterson says, the ability to articulate yourself as a superpower. I think most people can't do it, and I've certainly got better at it as a result of having these. I've probably done, like, 200 hours of conversations with people now. Just off the pod, something like that. Maybe 150.

Yeah.

And, yeah, it's a fucking skill that most we don't have.

You need to train it. That's actually something really interesting. If you want to become a better speaker, I think you absolutely need to train it. You have to make it a point. I remember the first podcast I did, Ben, who is a friend of mine now, he said, I find it very interesting that you rarely stutter. And I've said a few times on this podcast, and I've rarely stuttered that.

Deep stage voice that's trained or what. But I just.

No, no, no.

That's not.

That's not trained. I'm just a little dehydrated, I think.

Yeah.

I've been complaining about being dehydrated for, like, the past, like, week from all the pasta and bread in Italy.

Yeah.

But if you do want to become a speaker and you want to have a stronger oratory ability than you currently do, you have to absolutely practice it. You have to make a mental note to not say. I say, like, a lot. I say, you know, I'm gonna start.

Thinking about that in my own voice now.

Yeah. And a lot of the times, and because actually, we have the video here, it's interesting. You'll see me pause like. Like I did just now to have my brain articulate the thought. And actually, it's interesting. When you're selling and you pause, what happens? People are hooked. Right.

And.

And just it's. It's a lot to do with tonality and pauses and the way that you're able to articulate yourself, and there's a lot of nuance in it. Once you actually start to get really good and there are people that are genuinely master communicators that you can see on the Internet. But I always. And I love the podcast format because I'm able to practice that in real time, all of the time. Whenever I'm in a conversation with somebody, I always practice my ability to speak, my ability to captivate. And your ability to captivate attention is an absolutely incredibly strong skill to have. And it's very important because if you can capture attention now in this online economy where there's so much content being created and people aren't aware of the things that they're saying or the things they're doing, like, we're guys. Like, we're not pretty girls with big butts and giant cities. Like, it's going to take us some work to actually cultivate the attention. We actually have to put the work in and become someone. You have to be a person worth listening to, a way that you can be a person worth listening to. Like, there's guys that are great at communicating, and they literally say nothing. There are podcasts that have millions and millions of views, that get a ton of views, and they literally say nothing. And I think conversations, there's. There's ways that conversations can go, right? There's so many different threads. There's so many ways to revise a question or make an assumption about the way a conversation is going to go. And actually, it allows you to get new information out of the person that you're talking to. And actually, something that I realized that I did, and actually, Mason is someone that pointed this out to me, is he said, david, on your show, the way that you tell, you tell stories and then you ask a question afterwards. So I'll tell. And I realize that I do this in real time, but it's like. And now I'm a little bit more aware of it, but I'll tell a story about my own experience. I'll be like, have you ever had anything like that happen to you? And what it causes is a relationary integration of the conversation, right? Because you're telling a story, but you also get the other person to pay attention, to start to think, you know, has it ever happened to me? Or like, no. Well, I had a similar experience with this. And actually it allows you to get more information out and a better. Have a better conversation with the person you're talking to instead of, like, there's a million people that you can listen to interviews with, and they say the same exact thing. Right. But the reason I started doing the podcast, because I wanted to meet people, of course, like you, where we can talk about things you're not usually going to talk about.

Yeah.

That's the whole reason I did it, because I was so fucking sick and tired of listening to interviews that I heard. Okay, I already heard the story before. I'm turning soft.

Yeah.

Because I think you can learn something from everybody. And the more body of work that you have about different topics, about all of the things that you do, the easier actually it is. And you can relate this to a personal brand as well. The easier it is to capture different demographics. And once you have a follower or a customer, especially with social media, once you have somebody that follows you, for one thing, it's a giant flywheel. And you can, if you're good enough, you can make that person. You know, if they follow you for, let's say, Matt, they follow you for E Commerce, but they like, you know, your Instagram picture. They end up following you on Instagram. And then they might buy space goods. Right. And then they might listen to your podcast, or somebody that listens to your podcast, listens to you and likes your podcast might buy your product. So the more things that you know and the more. The more that you can articulate those thoughts and those ideas and also have the oratory ability to captivate and capture the attention. What happens is you create a giant perpetual motion machine for whatever that you want to build. And it's very intentional. Everything I do is very intentional. And actually my best friend, like I said, the one I live with, he is an ANR at a record label and also he's a music producer. And he just had a song go number one on YouTube a couple weeks ago, the NBA youngboy song. But he says, you know, he's like, I wish any. I remember we were. We were going for a ride and we were like, near the Hollywood Hills. And he was talking to me. He's like, man, he's like, I wish I could just sign you. And I started laughing. I'm like, well, what do you mean? He said. He said, you have the vision that we look for in artists with their music, because when an artist wants to get signed, a lot of them don't have the vision or the plan of what the next five, 10 years are going to look like for their career. Me, I knew that I would have every. Like, as soon as I saw one thing pop, as soon as I saw Twitter pop, I knew exactly what I was going to do. I said, what are the eight to ten things that I know best about? Can I condense those into? Can I can. How can I share that information. How can I create a format where I can deliver that information to as many people as possible? That's the reason why I rarely actually promote things anymore on my, on my social media. Why actually I rarely sell anymore. Here and there I'll be like, oh, come buy this, I'm doing this. But I think it's based off the mind. And if people like you and they like your brand, I think eventually down the line they're gonna become a customer, I think actively promoting and actively marketing, like, marketing marketing, like buy my course, buy my course, buy my course, buy my course. It starts to stale out your audience and then they're going to look at you and just be like, yeah, all this guy wants to do is sell shit to me. He doesn't value me as a person, he doesn't value me as a customer. He doesn't value, he doesn't value, like, he doesn't value me, doesn't even care. And if people went through life showing others that they care, the world would be a much better place. But the tragedy is that most people these days don't give a fuck about anybody else. And it's because all they want to do is figure out what the other person can offer them and take, take, take, and never give anything back. And so I write my tweets and I do all the things that I do. I do, you know, do the podcast and I do, you know, sitting here with you, my friend, and I'm doing all this for the 18 year old version of me who didn't know what the fuck was going on. Like I said, I didn't know what I was going on. Earlier in this podcast, I had no clue what direction I wanted to go. I had no guidance, I had no mentors. And so half of it is just to give back. Obviously, you know, like, you want to get paid and you want to make money and you want to build a business, you want to build a brand. And now I have a brand and I kind of, I love it. But also I have to be more filtered with the things I say because of the audience that I have now. Right? So it's cool. And obviously, you know, I built a, I built an incredible business and I've love, actually genuinely love helping, like, helping the people that I help and coaching, doing all the things that I do. But really, like, I started it out of like, I just want to give back. And I wish I had somebody to look at like me who was exactly like me, who came from what I've come from. And you know, grew up pretty much poor and made something of themselves and had it hard and made it out. And that's. That's kind of a big reason why I do the things I do. Because I think life is generally about being a good person. And it's. It's about being a good person. It's being a good friend, a good partner, a good. A good lover, a good. A shoulder to. A shoulder to cry on for your friends when they need you. It's about spending time with your friends and building relationships. And it's about the people. Everything business is relation based on relationships. Everything in life is based on relationships. And we would not have anything without other people.

Very true.

And you can make money, you can get with a lot of girls. You can live a crazy life. But there's. There's been so many guys, especially with like the Internet space, right? The whole red pill kind of space. It's like.

Yeah, I want to speak about.

Absolutely. The whole red pill space is fucked now. And there's actually a couple. Got a couple guys who are really doing it well. And I really like. Actually, I don't know, he'll probably not see this, but I really like Justin Waller, what he's doing. Very, very interesting guy. Very, very cool, cool thought process and very, very strong mentality. And he's bringing back the. He's changing. I think he's. And because he's. He's growing in the way that he is, he's. He's changing the landscape of the space from these anonymous Twitter accounts that are so. That are very misogynistic and sexist and actually genuinely horrible. But it's about being good to people. And I think if you're good to people, you're gonna get good things back. Sure, sometimes you might take. Be taken advantage of, but you talked about Jordan Peterson earlier. It's good to be a monster with teeth but not use them.

Yeah, exactly.

It's good to have that side and it's good to be able to go to war and win.

Dangerous man that's involuntarily has it under voluntary control.

I think it's the term voluntary control.

Yeah, that's the best way to be. Do you think so many areas want to go into. Do you think your Twitter brand and Persona is the true you, or is it a filtered and targeted version to appeal to certain people? Because when I first came across you, I probably like a lot of accounts on Twitter. I just thought this is some guy tweeting. Like, I probably didn't see all your Stuff, of course, but like tweeting platitudes and, you know, trying to be this G character.

Yeah.

Flashing the cash, whatever. Xyz. And you didn't show your face for a while on Twitter?

Yeah, I didn't show my face for a while because I, I didn't want. And I actually really had a lot of apprehension about going on video. And like, you know, even like when I first started Twitter, I just went by D. Right.

Yeah.

And like I had an anonymous picture with laser eyes. It was a picture from 2017. My abs out like this with a backwards hat on and laser eyes. Right. Yeah, same that I took in college. But I had a lot of apprehension because I didn't want my thoughts to be associated with my face. I didn't want people to like me for the way, or, you know, the way either I looked or. I didn't want people to judge me based on that. I wanted people to judge me solely on my thoughts and the things I was putting out there. Now you're gonna see. And you know this because you, you know a lot of people who are in social media and everything, like, yeah, I'm sure, like people on Twitter think I'm some like totally bombastic character screaming all the time, telling people to get fucked and like, just whatever, whatever the hell I say. But like, listen, one of the things I understand very well is the ability to use language. Anyone who wants a. Wants to write a vi. Which camera do I look into, Matt? Anyone who wants. I'll look, I'll look right here. I'll look to this one.

Oh, this one. Yeah.

Anyone who wants to write a viral tweet, all you have to do is subtly attack a group of people who are very easily offended.

Yeah.

Or not only attack. And actually J.K. molina is somebody who told me this. J.K. molina has like a hundred something thousand, twenty thousand Twitter followers now. But J.K. molina said you either, so. And it's the same thing in sales. You're either motivated by pleasure or pain and you can attack a certain group of people or you can identify with a group of people and you, what you do is you remove the nuance from these. You remove the nuance and you let people's brains associate and construe their own thought processes with the things that you say. I put out a tweet the other day. I'm in Italy, I'm chilling with my family. We took two hours. It was two hour drive into the mountains. We're in Mayela, if anyone's ever been there. It's beautiful place, beautiful views. And we're in Vasto Girardi. It's a town in the mountains. And we're at a restaurant. And it's 4pm and everyone's smoking. Everyone. It's seven courses of food. It's 4pm and we're like six bottles of wine deep, and there's like eight people around the table. And I put a tweet out and I said, I'm on top of a mountain in Italy. I'm seven course of food deep. There's the pack of cigarettes and six bottles. Excuse me, six bottles of wine at 4pm on a. 4pm on a Sunday.

Right.

I said, all everyone does in Italy is sit around, talk shit, smoke and drink, and eat cheese or something. And I said, no wonder why the economy in this country never developed. But if you read that. With a few feathers. But if you read that. But I'm. I'm Italian. Like, I'm like, I'm half. Like, I'm half Italian. Like, I'm. I'm allowed to say this, but also the level of which people thought I was attacking Italians was really funny because they're like, oh, like, you know, you just don't enjoy life. You relax. It's like, no, it was actually a very positive thing that I said. But it's the way it's. People construe their own ideas and have their own connotations of you and who you are and what you say and the tone of what you say based on their own view of the world.

Yeah.

So if you write something, it can be construed as positive or negative. Most people are going to construe it with negative.

Right.

And so I said that, and I was like, you know, I was like, you know, no wonder why the economy never developed, because everyone's just chilling because they're living a very good life. Their. Their quality of life there. If you speak to anybody who's Italian, the quality of life is incredible. They relax, they sit in the sun all day, they drink wine, they. They chill with their family, spend a lot of time with their family. And actually, most of the cultural practices evolved around not working. But most people thought. I was like, oh, like, you're thinking. You're so American, you're thinking about the economic development instead of enjoying your life. I'm like, no, I'm not, dude. I'm sitting here. I had a great. I actually. And I was like, I knew, but when I wrote the tweet, I knew it was going to be a banger.

Yeah.

And there's ways that you. And actually Ruby is a very, very great example of this, you know, that is he, he's very good with words. And I remember I saw a tweet of his and it said it's time to have that conversation with that person that you're holding back from. Instead of it's time to have a conversation with someone that you're holding back that person. And every single time you think of that. So language is very important. You have to be very deliberate with your language. So on Twitter it's very easy to write something. I wrote another one. I knew it was gonna be a banger. I was just sitting in my bed and I was watching like Bali travel videos, right? So I want to go to Bali. I'm like figuring out what the best spots. Like do I go to Chenyu Seminyak? Like, where do I go? And I'm like thinking and I'm like, and I'm watching the video and like everyone is not in shape. Like the guy doing the video is like not in shape. He's like super pale. And I'm like, how do you, how are you in a place where there's incredible food, you have the sun and time to train all day. But you choose. And I use the word bug man. I said, but you choose to be a bug man in a cafe on a laptop. And I knew it was, I knew it was gonna pop and I knew everyone was gonna agree with me. The. And then there's a lot of things that you learn about crisis management, but you have to be very deliberate with your language and there's a exact order of words and it's very easy actually that I've, I've learned to, that I've learned and I've seen to kick the bees nest in a certain way where there's literally a formula and a structure that you can follow to make something go to have a group of people to create engagement. So. And I'm going to tell everyone how to do it here. So you're going to get on the.

Midnight podcast is the first time people look at the camera.

Here's what you're going to get. Here's exactly what you're going to do. If you want to create something that, that creates engagement, you're going to make a big bold claim, a big bold statement without that lacks nuance and a you want a blanket generalization statement, then you're going to create a follow up statement that makes the first statement seem futile or maybe futile is not the word, but makes it seem like it's. It's ridiculous. Right. So you literally. In the structure of the, of the tweet or the format or you can actually do this in TikTok and Instagram Reels and everything. Everything. Like that big bold claim. And then why the x big bold claim is a little bit ridiculous.

Right.

Or this group of people or this thing that people do is ridiculous. And then you either leave it open to questions or you make it even more ridiculous or you ask an open ended question or an or like I don't understand why this is the way it is after you make the big bold claim. So it actually. It's a. It's. It's a mind fuck. It's a.

It.

It's a. Creates cognitive dissonance in, in the, in the reader. And what does that do? If people don't understand something, they begin to ask questions. Or if people disagree with something, they feel like they're entitled to an opinion. Actually this is one of the big reasons that I hate fucking Twitter and I hate social media is because everyone feels like they're entitled to an opinion on your life or what you say or anything. It's absolutely not true. I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion. But like people feel like their opinion is the person reading it is going to actually genuinely care about their opinion. So that's kind of how you do it. And I can actually pull out my phone and read it. Would you want to read it?

Yeah.

You guys, the breakdown.

Go for it.

Let's see if I can find it.

I haven't tweeted in a while. I was tweeting quite a bit and then I just really sporadically tweet when something comes to mind more as a documenting purpose rather than trying to go viral. But I once. We got like a million impressions and went viral.

Really?

And it was about. I think it was because it was relatable. It was about. I think I said our generation is fucked. The whole. Our generation is fucked with dating because of social media. Yes, Before.

That's true.

And I worded it quite well and yeah, got like a million impressions and like 5000 likes or something. Yeah, that's the only.

Did you see my thread that got 30 million impressions? No, the fashion guide.

30 million.

30 million. The entire thing got 30 million.

This is why Twitter's mad. Such a developed platform still has opportunity to get mad reach.

I had everybody coming after me. It was hilarious. I literally just muted the thread and then I got. I woke up and I had a bunch of Core sales.

Yeah.

And so what I'm saying about Twitter, guys, if you want to steal this framework, and this is free game, first, number one, you make a bold, almost outlandish claim. Then number two, you say it's easy for you to do said bold and outlandish claim. You make it ridiculous, ridiculously easy. Right. Lifting a thousand pounds is easy. Right. I don't know how, I don't know how you people can't lift something like that.

Yeah.

Then you have a motivational sentence of why you're better than other people or why you can do it and they can't. And then a sentence that shatters the said demographic. They're said whoever, whichever group of people are. Thing, whatever thing. Not that you're attacking people, but whatever thing that you're talking about. A sentence that shatters their reality and backs up the bold claim of why it's easy and that's how you make something pop. Then you can post a picture that's eye catching in some way. And then there's get brownie points and bonus points. It's actually you and it's. You're actually living this type of life that you're claiming to live. And you're actually like. That's why people get so angry, angry at some people on the Internet because they're jealous of them and they want their life or they envy their lifestyle. And then you literally watch people like, like ants, like swarm onto your. Whatever you're posting and like say like, oh, I don't. I disagree with this. You're crazy. You're an asshole. This, Whatever, whatever it is. And then you can just kind of continue to bait and debate in the comments and then you literally sit there and laugh. But it's good to have an offer on the back end of that though. Any of my business guys, any of my social media, any of my business guys, it's really good to have an offer on the back end of that because if so, you're just. If not, then you're just kind of doing it for no reason and you're losing out on opportunity costs. That's all it's on.

That's good shit. I'm gonna actually listen to that and try and apply that framework. Try and get more people subscribing to the pod. I started using TikTok for the pod. Really? A few clips. One of them got like 700k views. It was just a random clip.

That's awesome.

Sounds like, wait a minute, TikTok's an opportunity sleeping on this shit.

I think we've got about 12 months left before TikTok becomes completely unusable.

Just like Instagram, you got organic reach is fucked. Yeah, it's crazy.

So I think I need to start doing more video podcast.

No, I'd say so. It's definitely good for that. It's definitely good for that. What do you think about the whole Red Pill community then? Because I feel like the whole Andy Tate thing has blown up.

Yeah.

I was. I didn't even know what red pill was like, as in obviously was aware of the content.

Yeah.

But I didn't know that it was called Red Pill this shit until I was on Twitter, basically. But it's a group chat. My mates and I decided that I think a lot of it, I mean, it's kind of. It appeals to almost like incel type characters.

Yeah.

That are trying to justify their lack of maybe success with women or whatever by going down this kind of extreme, controversial, like fuck women, everything, like blah, blah, blah.

Yeah.

Borderline misogynistic angle. And it doesn't. I don't know, it just. I think if it doesn't feel natural to you to view the world that way, you shouldn't jump on it because some people. People view women and dating and all that shit that way.

I don't think that's a natural whatsoever. I think it's completely trained or it's completely programmed into their mentality by society. I'll say this for the podcast. I'm a clip out of this right here. Yeah. I think the whole red pill space, as it stands currently right now, has is programming guys into becoming lesser versions of themselves. And it's all the way. It's all used to sell products. It's all one big sales funnel. Every single anonymous account on Twitter or anonymous seduction account on. On Twitter. Every single, every single one. Buy my course to learn how to pick up poor girls in Ukraine or something like. Like that one guy who was sitting, chilling in Ukraine and he was like, had like a blog. Like, it's horrible. It's absolutely horrible. It's absolutely horrible. And actually I found the space years ago in. The space used to be really good. It used to be a really positive community. And I saw like from Reddit and everything, it was a really positive community of a bunch of guys who were getting together and like, genuinely, like they wanted to develop their social skills. They were. They were all working out and they would post about their progress and things like that. Now it's become this don't split, don't pay for a girl on A date, bro. Any beautiful girl. Any single beautiful girl on planet Earth, if you. And who literally has pick of the litter. Any single one, you think she's gonna keep talking to you after you take her to a nice restaurant and ask her to split the bill? Are you crazy?

Yeah.

Are you crazy? And also, if you're a guy and you're young, because I know there's a lot of young dudes who follow me. There's a lot of young dudes who follow you. There's a lot of business people as well. But if you're a young guy, you gotta get your money right. Two things that you gotta get right. Number one is your fitness, because it compounds over time. It's the first thing you need to get right. Number two is your money, because when you start going out to places in London or Los Angeles or Miami or New York or Mykonos or Dubai, dinner is a thousand dollars every single night in Mykonos.

It definitely is.

Dinner's a thousand dollars. You were. You were staying at Soho House, right, in Mykonos?

I wasn't staying there. Okay. We were going there.

I can't actually go to Scorpio.

Yeah. Okay.

How much is it for a table in Scorpio? It's about 25 grand, right? Yeah, it's €25,000 for a tablespoon, actually.

Yeah. It's crazy. Like, you think 400 grand for VIP table?

Like. Like, bro, you think you're gonna go to the club, you're gonna go to Scorpios and meet and be like, oh, yeah, you got to split the. Bro, that's what you. That's what most people make in a year after taxes. They'll make 50k. They'll bet. They'll make 25. They'll save 20 grand. They can't even pay for a table for one night.

Yeah. I mean, scorefest is crazy. It's crazy.

That's the only club in Mykonos I've never been to.

Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nah, it's crazy. But I think the whole red pill thing, right, And I speak to mates about this, it kind of. It completely destroys the whole aspect of, like, chivalry and, like, romance and shit. I'm. I'm not that guy. That's like, hoes in clubs, all this bullshit. I mean, I've done that, been there, done that. It just isn't what I'm naturally drawn to, though. Like, I'm the guy that, like, I was saying off camera, if I fucking like someone, it's like flowers and dinners and shit.

Yeah.

And I think that's how it should be. And that's not like a simpy fucking loser way, which some people on Twitter might say. It's just in an authentically myself way.

Yeah.

And I'm confident in my own masculinity and character.

Yeah.

That if I fucking want to treat a woman nicely because I like them.

Yeah.

Then I can. That's not like some simp. Whereas Red pill would be like, you need to have, you know, 15 hoes on speed dial and like, you should never do anything for a woman. Like, everyone's out to get you. Yeah. Everyone's got a backup. I think it's very. Of course there's exceptions to every rule. And like, maybe if you go to Mayfair and you hang around the wrong places, you're probably not gonna find a wife. But there are still good people out there, guys and girls.

Yeah.

It just depends who you surround yourself with. And often, in my opinion, the best girls are not the ones that are in fucking nightclubs every night.

Yeah, I agree. Especially they're not the ones in nightclubs on everybody's table.

Yeah.

You know, it's an interesting thing and I really.

There's just this huge culture on Twitter of the whole nightclub and hoes, inverted commas, that whole thing. And I just think it's very. It's actually very niche because the whole like Miami, Mayfair, London, like LA scene that is still like 1% of probably less than 1% of like you see.

The same people all the time. Globally, you see the same people.

It's a very refined group.

Yeah.

And you have to be careful. Even living, living where I live and stuff, it's all around me, but I'm very aware that it's a. It's a bubble and you don't have to stay in that bubble, you know, to view the world just based on that. Like, like not every girl is a girl that goes clubbing, you know, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, whatever it is.

Yeah.

And yeah, I just think there's a lot of opinions and like stereotypes that people take in.

Gospel.

Yeah, exactly.

People need it, guys.

And please stop yourself and treat different situations how you would authentically yourself. The problem is you get all these 18 year olds, they've never got any life experience and then they latch on to Andy Tate or I mean, here's obviously the biggest. But like leading they like to onto people in that Red pill circle and then they try and, you know, they follow like a blueprint or like people that would study like day game and shit.

Yeah.

Just Work on yourself and do what feels natural to you. And like I said a million times, be authentically yourself and you'll attract people that are interested in that, whether that's guy friends or girls in a dating aspect.

Yeah. And I think a lot of it's theory and not actually what they believe.

Exactly.

Because you can talk about theories to do things and. But what's actually fact. There's. Life is. Life is a feeling process and life is gray area. Not everything you read on the Internet, guys, a crazy thought. Not everything you read on the Internet is true. Not everything you read on the Internet is gospel. Especially with this. Because human relationships, interpersonal relationships, are completely dynamic things, and every single one is different. Yeah, you have a different relationship with every single one of the people in your life. Every single one in everybody's life is different. You have a different relationship with your dad than you do your mom that your brother with you do your cousin with your friend with your best friend with an acquaintance. Every single thing is different. And it's important to understand that nuance because if you don't, you take everything that you read on the Internet, especially if you have no direction and no guidance and no mentors, you can start to read the wrong thing. And it leads you down a very sad, lonely and dark path where you create a void inside of your soul that you will never fill.

That's powerful.

And, you know, that whole space is very interesting to me. I don't think, you know, I don't think we should even waste our time further, like, talking about, talking about that space, because it's like I just want to complain about it. When I try, I feel like I've started to. You try not to complain unless I do something about it. But I don't like it and I don't like the direction it's going. But there are a couple people who are kind of are. It's saving grace. And that's really all I gotta say. What do you think about it, you think?

I think. I think people need to build. And you can tell when someone's inexperienced in life generally, whether that's business or social things or whatever, when their opinions are only what everyone's or everyone is telling them on Twitter. You know, if they can't have an opinion outside what everyone else is thinking, then they clearly don't have enough context to make their own opinions on things. And that's the problem with shit like Red Bull. Absolutely attracts a bunch of insecure young guys. Unmaddy girls like, you know, that they just don't have enough life experience to have their own opinions on things.

You know, there's only a couple people. And I agree with you, people fall for that.

Well, 20, yeah, they're getting sold.

Agree with you completely. And there's only a couple people that I know of literally on in this world who have had their shit together at like 18 or like have had a semblance of their shit together. But it's because. And think about how you were and I was. When I like how you were at 18 and I was at 18, I had no clue what was going on. It's like you got a bunch of 18 year old kids reading these like seduction Twitter accounts and it's like, don't pay for a beautiful woman for dinner. What?

Yeah. That's crazy.

What? Don't open the door. Like, dude, I open the door for my girl every time.

So do you have a girlfriend then?

Yeah, I do.

How long has that been?

Five months.

Right, cool. Yeah, how's that? How did that come about?

I was, I was actually with. It was the second night I hung out with Sebastian Giorgio in la. And another. And Mike, Mike on Twitter. Mike Paik on Twitter. And we went out and it was. We went to Sebastian's friend's boxing fight. He won, crushed the dude in like the first round. Crazy. And we all went out. There's a bunch of like some of the E Commerce guys, crypto guys, all really, really awesome people. We went out and she was just around and she was actually. And the story was she was promoting the night, so she was actually working there and she like, things kind of got fucked up with the people that she was gonna bring and she was wandering around with her friend and ended up talking to me. So. And I didn't really, I didn't really. We talked about a lot of things and got kind of deep like quite fast. But another thing with the whole. This whole like red pill kind of talking to girls things like if you're like, if you have your shit together, right, and you're have a semblance of confidence, right? Like I walked up, I said, hi, what's your name? You're absolutely gorgeous. That was it.

Old school.

That was it.

Yeah, he died.

This shit, you don't need to script it. You don't need all these openers, you don't need these lines that you walked up and said, hi, my name's David. You're absolutely gorgeous.

Yeah. And then the. You have yourself to back that up because yeah, you need a fucking opening line if you're a loser. Yeah. That's the thing people miss.

But if I have nothing in my entire life to be pretty much insecure about or I have nothing to, like, there's no. There's no doubt in my heart. It's like I feel very, like, actually, and it's something interesting because once I started to see some success in business, it's like sometimes you kind of get imposter syndrome. You don't really necessarily always feel deserving of your success.

Yeah.

And it was at a point where I felt very deserving of my success, and I really started to become really. And this is actually within the past year, like, really deserving and really grounded in the things that I've done and what I've built. And there was no, like, you know, no doubt in my mind anymore, and I'd started to become really deserving of the things that I was doing. And that when you're. When you feel, like, totally congruent with the things that you're doing in life and who you are and you really feel like, you know, it's like the Drake lyric says, I think I really like who I'm becoming.

Yeah.

And I was like, damn, that's me. And so, you know, I just walk up and it's like, also, like, if guys. Like, if you guys are, you know, whoever listens to this, you guys want girl advice? Be as direct as possible, but don't be creepy. Don't be creepy. You're not gonna get any girls doing that. But if you're as direct as possible, like, you know, I think you're absolutely gorgeous. You know, what's your name? And she's either gonna say yes or no. Dude, listen. Actually, these odds don't get better. It's 50. 50. Most of the stuff in life you can say winning the lottery is one in a million. Nah, it's 50. 50. It either happens. So, like, your business is either gonna be successful or it's not. Right. All the statistical stuff, life is literally like. It's a feeling process. It's a game of luck. It's a game of chance. It's like, I could have walked out and she could have went. Gave me. Gave me the head nod, but, like, goodbye. But no, that didn't happen. And then. Yeah, now we've been together five months, so it's very. It's.

It's.

It's different from the life that I used to live.

Did you. I've discussed this kind of. I don't know if it's like an Internet theory or theory My friends are discussed. Did you think when you met her, for example, I don't want to go too into your private life, but like, were you like instantly like, ah, she's like gonna be my girlfriend?

No, no, no.

But there was that instant attraction or is it more just like.

Yeah, absolutely. Instant traction.

Because the reason I say that is because something about pheromones. I was reading about this. I don't know how true it is or how just like romantic biological bollocks. I don't know. But like every time in my life where I've been like magnetically attracted to a girl, which is rare, to be fair. It's always happened. Yeah, always. Because. And I don't know what the theory is specifically, but the logic behind it is you only feel that way because it's like some neutral thing.

Yeah.

Otherwise you wouldn't feel that way.

Well, that's a very interesting theory.

And because it's mutual, ends up happening.

Yeah, but I think whereas other times.

When I've just not felt that interested. Well, it then hasn't happened something that interested.

But yeah, it's weird that happens even if you see people.

I've never really liked someone and not happened, basically, is what I'm saying, really. So I don't know that's just because I've got good game or what? Or if it's just like, I mean, backing up guys.

It's definitely not because he's 6 foot 3, he was pushing a Ferrari, he's got a nice house, he's got a lot of success. Things got definitely. No, but humble. Very humble. But no, there was definitely instant attraction. And I think you need instant attraction with a person that you're going to be with. You need that. Absolutely. And I don't think you can falter on that. You have to be attracted. And it was very magnetic. And I can say it was very magnetic. What most people do is they try to talk to every girl instead of the right girl.

100% agree.

You can't go up to every girl, every six in the club and start trying to spit game to some six in the club to get your dick wet. Yeah, don't do that, guys, please don't do that. I was. And I'm very direct because it's like, I was just like, I think you're gorgeous and like, it's not like I'm like having a conversation, the conversations going nowhere. And I'm on some, like, let's just be, oh, I want to be your friend. It's like, no, I'm here for. And I think every single guy like you guys would get a lot more done and be a lot more efficient and find the right person for you or a right person for you. Again, being deliberate with my language. If you were directed with your intentions, right? When you start a business where you say, I'm going to do this, this, this, and this, you don't say, oh, I might do this, or I might do, like, oh, I'm not sure. Like, oh. And you're uncertain. Intent comes from certainty, right? Especially with the girls. If you have the intent, you walk on. I think you're absolutely gorgeous. I like you. She knows why you're there, bro.

Yeah, Right.

So it's up for her, and it's up for the woman to decide if. If she likes you or not. Right? So, yeah, there's instant attraction, but for me, I'm kind of a hard nut to crack. Like, I need to. I need to actually, like, see who this person is, because you get 20, 20, 30 minutes in a club. Like, even though if you, like, you're not gonna actually know genuinely who that person is.

Right.

But I guess you could say I'm a decent interviewer, so I would say so. I appreciate that. But also. But it's like the same things. Same things you say in an interview. It's like the same process applies to dating. Like, it's like, how do you get to know who that person actually is and what their values are? How do you know that they're not lying to you? Lying through their teeth? How do you know that they're not putting on a facade? How do you know that they're not faking it? So you have to understand the nuance. But, yeah, I mean, I sort of met her, and then she actually dipped off from me. And then next day, I got a text. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Like, I dip, but I had a pleasure. It was amazing to meet you, and I want to see you again or something like that. So went out on a date, and then that's kind of history.

Love to see it.

It's kind of history. It was kind of just like. So it's. It's interesting, but I think, like I said, intent comes from certainty, and you have to be absolutely certain. I'm gonna say something I said on our podcast that we did when you were on my show. All right. You need four things. You need four things in life. So you need. You need to be whatever you. Whatever you guys want to do, because there's a Lot of people who listen to this for advice and entertainment value. And you're very entertaining. I like hanging out with you and I enjoy talking to you. But on top of that, if you guys want to actually do something, whether it's talking to girls or it's business or it's sales or whatever it may be, you, you guys need to be consistent. Consistency creates confidence. And once you're confident, you might not know what the hell you're talking about, but you know that you can do it. So you have to create competence. And confidence creates competence. And then when you have all three, you're consistent, you're confident, you're competent, then you become convicted. And the reason why I can speak with pretty much almost zero stutters. I know I stuttered a couple times on this show, but I'm convicted in the things that I'm saying. Yeah, I just caught that.

Catch that fly.

But you become convicted in the things that you say. And when you become convicted, you can do anything and not convicted like going to jail.

But no, I completely agree. You have to. Yeah. You have to be very clear on. I think the problem is most would actually know what they're trying to achieve. Mm. Whereas. And obviously your goals in life, obviously the goalposts move, things change, whatever. But I religiously think about. And it probably develops every like three months maybe I look at like a three month basis, like certain goals I have in every area of my life. And when I'm in the sauna meditating, which I tend to do like every day, I'll visualize them as if they're done. Like, and whatever some people say, like visualization is bollocks and stuff, but. And it is if you don't back it up with action. But the reason I do that is because, you know, you need to be very clear on what you're you, what you want to achieve.

Yeah.

And for me it's like I'll have a business goal, I'll have a fitness goal, a maybe a social goal, like maybe a goal with like my relationships, that sort of shit. Maybe like three or four. And then you just once you know exactly what you're going after and you almost act like it's already happened. Then like you're saying, gives you the conviction to fucking do it every day. And you know, then all you have to do is win the day. And then when you win every day.

Yeah.

Granted there's ups and downs and certain little things that happen, whatever which might push you off that path momentarily. But then you just win the day. And eventually over, you know, 365 days a fucking year, and then you look back and see how much has happened in a year.

Yeah.

Even just in, like, three months, I have to do that. And you think, like, not much is happening. And sometimes, like, it's a fucking grind trying to do a lot of shit, particularly when you have a lot going on, but you can really move the needle. But you have to be very clear on what you're trying to achieve first. Because you ask most, most people what they actually. What they're trying to do in life. Yeah, they probably don't really know, or maybe they have a fluffy idea, but it's not that specific. Yeah, but yeah, I think being very specific on exactly what you want to do. And even if it seems, like, arrogant or you don't feel like you deserve it, like, train yourself to fucking think that it's already happened and then go after it.

Yeah, that's very true.

But it gets easier, like you said, when you have to get blind confidence from nothing. Originally, like when, I don't know, when I was 18 and I got into, like, E. Com, I hadn't done anything, but I just. You have to just arrogantly, you know, crazily believe that you're able to do it and take that first step. But then you get, like you said, you build competence through doing it because you are confident you can do it. So you spend time on it. And then when you get good at it, you have the skill set and you got the results. And then when you get the results, it's like. I think it was. There's a saying, like, experience breeds confidence because, like, when you've done it and people around you have done it, it's like the normal. It's normality. And there's always the next level to that, but that first bits the hardest.

Yeah, absolutely.

Because no one has any experience when you get started, just by default. And that's the same for fucking everyone.

But it's also on top of that, Matt, is there's, like I said earlier when I was telling that story of kind of what my backstory is, there's that point where you don't think that you're going to be able to do it, where you've tried it and you've not succeeded. And you have to be able to turn your brain off to genuinely build those skills. Right. You need to make a commit. I think people would benefit from making commitments from and honoring the commitments that they make to themselves. Because I don't want to be a person that sits around and says I'm gonna do something and then doesn't do it.

Oh, I think it's the most important thing in life. Like your word has to be like iron willed. It has to be like solid.

As much to yourself as much as possible.

Yeah.

And you have to make the commitment to yourself because if you genuinely want to live like a better life or you want to achieve these things because of whether it's ego or it's spirit, and most people want to achieve materialistic wealth out of ego and things like that. But I think it's, I think that's very good. But. Or maybe an altruistic perspective, taking care of the people around them. But you have to, you have. There's, like I said, there's going to be that point where you don't think you're going to be able to do it, but you have to know what your clear goals are. And I, I truly think like.

Although.

We'Re gonna probably have to cut this, so I'm just. But it's commitment, an honoring commitment with themselves. Like if you, if you say something and you don't do it, then you're sitting there and you're lying to yourself forever.

Yeah.

Or if you say, hey, I'm gonna do like the goal, like the goal post does change, but account a personal responsibility and accountability. And you see a lot of people, actually this is very interesting. You see a lot of people with victim mentality who have zero accountability and zero personal responsibility for themselves. It's interesting thought a lot of the people that complain a lot on. On social media apps and envy other people are people that can't take personal respons, say, my life's shit, I want to change it. And here's when exactly and specifically what I'm going to do to change it. And here's why I want to. Here's exactly the things that I want to do. I think one of the best things I ever did was I got really hard on myself and really actually down almost to like a state of depression. And I do this sometimes to myself, just kind of g check myself and know exactly where I'm at.

Mm.

You can do this better. You're this, you're this, you're this, you're this. And get real negative and you get real specific on the things that you want to change or the things that you're not happy with. And then you flip the script and do almost everything in your power to change that. Because some things you can't change. But almost everything in your Power that you can change for the better. You try to make an effort to change and a lot of it has to do with, like, health, fitness, financial relationships. But, like, if you don't like the person that you're with or the friends that you hang around, you can change those. The Internet exists. Right. If you have a skill that you think you lack, there's information out there to help you change that. And as long as you make the commitment, you honor that commitment. I think people would have lived better lives and do very well.

Yeah. Do you think you're driven more by positivity or negativity?

Negativity.

Same. Yeah.

Did you grow up, like, and I have to make it mentality.

Yeah. So I don't come from rich family.

Yeah. Neither do I.

Like, just kind of normal, I guess. My mum was a nurse, went to a comprehensive school. I didn't see any, like, wealth or anything. Wasn't like fucking poor, but just like, normal, I guess. And then I think it was more partly like seeing my parents just like, maybe, I don't know, do shit they didn't want to do because of money. And then I was like, ah, yeah. I think one thing I'm probably driven by most is like, have you ever done a personality test?

Absolutely, I did.

So 16 personalities I might link on this pod. I did that test, like six months ago. I did it again recently and it was the exact same result. I think it was an ENFJ protagonist or whatever. And I read through the. It's probably like, maybe there's an element of its borderline, like, star signs where everything is applicable to everyone. If you read it that way, because you're in that mindset. But the description was so ridiculously accurate on, like, relationships, money, business, everything.

Yeah.

And one of the things it said was that I get a lot of pleasure out of helping other people and like, being generous to other people more than myself. And then I was like, fuck, that's so true. Because I guess girls, as an example, like, if I fucking like, like someone, I'll just go all out. And I get. I probably get more pleasure than they do from whatever I'm doing for them because I'm like, giving. And maybe that's an element of why I like doing the poll, to feel like I'm helping people and shit. But to come back to the original question of the point is, I'm probably like. My monetary goals are probably more about the ability to, like, relieve stress from other people, I. E. My parents. Yeah. And like, my future family and be able to provide for them more than my. More than my short term indulgent desires to fucking buy like a Bugatti or some bullshit. Yeah, because that's all cool. And like we were saying before, like, you kind of tick off those smaller goals like car, whatever, fancy watch, other sort of bullshit when you're like, younger, or if you do do it when you're younger, and then you think, well, what. What's driving it beyond that point? All right, this freedom and so on. But freedom in itself isn't that great. Because going to, like I said, let's fucking Mykonos and shit gets old. And then it's like, well, where's the intrinsic drive come from in terms of at least like the monetary side? Granted, I want to build something cool and have a legacy and all this shit, but it's actually to probably, like, be a provider to some extent. And.

Yeah.

And you know, people that in many ways cursed to probably come from like, a lot of wealth and shit will never know, will never feel that way because they're always cool. And by default they'll probably never have that drive to build something. I don't know where I'm going with it, but yeah, if I was, to be honest with myself, that's probably where a lot of the drive comes from, is to be a provider. Because I just like, biologically, intrinsically feel that. And that's why I would never let a girl pay for fucking half. Half the meal on a date. Because I want to be that provider.

Yeah.

And that makes me feel like, right. It feels right to do that.

And the reason I asked you that. I'm hijacking the podcast now, the reason I asked you that was because at some point, I mean, like, dude, you had a Ferrari at 22, right?

24.

24.

24.

You had the ra to, okay, 100,000 pound, 100,000 dollar difference. But, like, at what point did the money stop making you happy? Because, like, I think at some point you have to shift the goalpost and you have to change the vision. And I, I'm saying this like, on Twitter, and I was telling people, like, you know, even if they don't want to get into like, sales or copywriting or E commerce or like, whatever the business model is or whatever vehicle that they're in in order to kind of escape from the slavery of like a job or whatever it is, and they want to live life on their own terms, whatever vehicle they're using to. To live life on their own terms, at some point, you have to change the vision and you have to change the scope.

Yeah.

And I think. And so what I want to say is, like, so if you have a vision, there's two other things that you need. So the vision is the grand thing. Like, what do I want? My life and the future, the legacy, whatever you want. What is that? What does it look like? Number two is, what is my plan to get there? And number three, and this can't change, is you have to be able to work and have that work ethic ingrained in your being in order to get there. And so you work backwards. Right. If you have the work ethic, then you. What is the plan? Right, What's. What plan am I going to have in order to get to the vision? And so you have to kind of reverse engineer it. Most people, they don't have a plan. They don't even have the work ethic, and they get lazy and they don't have the vision. But I think when you make a certain amount of money or you hit. And I think, honestly, truthfully, I think the number is $20,000 a month in your pocket, your vision starts to change and, like, you can live a really good life on, like, I was gonna make a point, like, 250. Like 240. 250.

The reason I think it's that sort of number, right, Because. And you said, when does the money start making you happy? There's obviously levels to money, but I think it's so diminishing beyond about that point, because the initial reason, you know, people get started and they have, like, no money. And I remember having literally no money. Yeah. 40 quid in my account. I was working the burger bar, running Facebook ads on my break. But people think, like, no, certain people don't go through that stage. And everyone goes through that fucking stage unless you come from money or whatever. Doesn't count. But the initial drive there is. I want to be able to not do this shit job that I fucking hate.

Yep.

And then once that's covered, it's like, all right, okay, I want to have a bit of freedom to, like, do what I want and, you know, enjoy life a bit more. Travel, whatever, go out, whatever. And, yeah, I think it's like you said about that sort of level, but beyond that, it's more just, like, keeping score. And obviously there's levels to it. Like, you can't fucking buy private jet and shit. But, like, even that, I think the difference between, like, working in an office job, say, nine to five, like, a lot of people maybe are when they're starting out and not being able to go anywhere and then actually now you can fucking go to Bali if you want and work. That difference is way more powerful than oh, now you can go to Bali on a private jet if you're making fucking 100 million. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, that's more just like, yeah, oh, it's a bit more luxurious. It doesn't have a material impact on the way you're living.

I think I heard, I remember I saw your episode with Iman. I heard Iman say this.

Yeah, he's a wise don.

He.

That's the most used episode by far.

He's a serious.

I look like a different person. That said, really I was in a bad way that time.

I remember listening, you were like, oh, like you were you talking about some shit. I think, I think I heard him say is like my. It was like something along the lines of like your first hundred K like changes the way you view the world or like changes the like your entire lifestyle. Yeah, right. But I think people, like people can live a really Good Life on 2, 200 depending on where you live in the world. I think you need minimum, if you're in New York, Miami or LA, I think you need a minimum 200 grand a year to have fun and like actually enjoy life. And you can do that and you have to do that on your own without working like a job because a lot of the enjoyment in those cities is during the daytime and if you're occupied in an office, you're not gonna be able to enjoy that city. Yeah, like I chill on my rooftop pool in LA at 2pm on a Tuesday. No one's there, everyone's at work. So to get the true enjoyment, I think you need a vehicle in order to get there and you need a vision. Like let me ask you this, like, how has your vision changed? I'll tell you. Our minds change, but I'll tell it.

I think we spoke about this in your poem.

I think we did.

I think broadly, like life speaking, it's probably become more long term in general it's probably become more about less elements, whether that's people or things, but ones that matter more. So maybe like less people that I give a fuck about, but ones that are going to be in my life hopefully for a long time rather than wasting time with, you know, the wrong girls, the wrong people, whatever, like, you know, less things in the sense that I, I move where I live less, for example, like because I'm more focused on, I want a bit more consistency Whereas when I was younger, it was, like, very random and very, like, no stability. Basically. I think you get older and you want a bit more stability. And I'm still trying to figure out exactly what that looks like. But, for example, like, London will always be my central base now, I think forever, because I've just. Because you compound the. Your network and your life in that place, which I think is the biggest downside to being a nomad forever, is that you never actually build a reputation or an element of status anywhere.

Yeah, you.

You kind of. Kind of get there in Changu and Chang Mai, wherever the fuck you're going. Barcelona, like I used to do. But no one actually knows you for long enough to build your brand anywhere.

You need at least, I think, a month.

Yeah.

If you're in a small city or a small village or a small town, you need a month maximum. And there's a lot of different ways to do that. But I agree with you. I want to find, like. I genuinely want to find a place where I really feel like it's home. And I live in la. I don't feel like it's home. Even Philadelphia, I didn't. I didn't feel like it was home. It's home, technically, yeah. But, you know, I feel it. It's very strange because I kind of always want to. I have this feeling inside of me that I always need to be on the move, and that's. That's kind of what my vision is, especially for, like, the next few years. I don't understand how some people can stay in the same place for their entire lives. Or like, the same place. Like, oh, like, I'm gonna stay here for three months. It's like, what? Three months, bro? I'm like, I'm here for three weeks. I'm like, I'm itching to get the. Out of there. Yeah, right. I'm like. I'm, like, itching to get out of it. Like, actually, in the past year, the longest I stayed in one place was five or six weeks. Even though I have a place in la, I only stayed there. And I actually think the longest that I. No, wait. Yeah. The longest that I stayed there was six weeks. It used to be five, but until I went to Europe, you know, we had to build a product and we had to do a bunch of. I had to do a bunch of stuff, but it's been six weeks for the past year. I've stayed on, I've stayed in the same place, and now it's kind of like my normal.

Yeah, I'm probably the same, to be fair, in terms of one block. So. Travel a lot. Even though I'm talking about consistency, but I guess consistent base.

Yeah, well, you have a. You have the home base, but it's like when you. I. I feel like we, like if we. If we truly only have one life. I gotta. I gotta get. I gotta get moving. It's too much to see. I don't want to live a life of regret. That's like, I. I'm. I do not want to live a life of regret at all. I want to go here, I want to go there. You know, I've only been to, I think. I think United Kingdom. Actually. England is my 13th country I've been to. And one year ago I was on my. I was. I had only been in America, So I did 13 countries in a year. And it's like, I want to do more, like before I leave here, I want to do like 20 something, right. Just to see them. Just to say I've been there and, and done it and to have the story. Actually, I think traveling is something because it's very interesting because when I travel, I always get the craziest stories.

Yeah.

It's the craziest experience. And it's like, regardless of, like, if I made it, you know, a hundred million dollars or however, much like whatever financial game that you want to play, even if I was broke at the end of my life, or I had nothing at the end of my life, but I had those stories. And I'm sitting around, I'm smoking a cigar, I'm hanging out with my grandchildren, I would feel so fulfilled.

Yeah.

Telling them the stories about this. Crazy. This happened, this happened, this happened, this happened, this happened. Yeah. We almost died here, we almost died there.

Yeah.

Kind of fight here. This happened, this happened. This. Like, I was in. I was in. I was here, here, here, here. And just like, I think the more you do that, the more experience that you have and the more stories that you can tell. I think that's what makes. I think that's what makes life worth living. Living a beautiful life.

Yeah.

Genuinely.

And.

But money is a part of that.

All the ups and downs and the fucking stories. Well, I'll never be short of those.

You know, money is a part of that because my goal, Right. My goal post actually changed. I wanted to make, what was it, 20 grand a month online. Right. When I. When I first, like, originally was like, I want to figure out how to make some money online. And then shit started popping off. But my goal post change and it's like, I want to see as much as the world of the world as possible while I'm still young. I want. And my true vision is I genuinely want to live a life that most people will never experience.

Hmm.

And that's fulfillment for me. So money, obviously is part of that. Right. Like, we're taking out yachts in Miami, or like, most people don't ever get to have that experience. You know, actually, you know, I've never driven a supercar yet. Right, you have.

They're fine.

Right. So I need to do that. But I want it, like, I want to genuinely live a life that most people want. Don't. Don't have the ability to experience or don't have the financial means to experience. And that includes, you know, traveling the world and seeing places and going to, you know, somewhat dangerous places and things like that. So it's a big world. And I think if this is my only spin on this rock, I need to do as much as I possibly can. I need to fit it in with while I still have the energy and the capacity to do so.

That said, then, because I guess, like, the specifics of my life vision that we've kind of mentioned, I feel like never stem that far ahead. I'm probably like. I can see, like, clearly, like, three to five years, and after that, it gets a bit foggy because so many things will change within that period. But do you have a grand master plan? And, like, I guess within that there's certain goals by certain ages. Like, how does your Life look in 10 years, for example? Or do you go beyond that?

Oh, dude, I have no clue. This is a really interesting point. My life changes literally three months at a time.

Yeah.

And I don't even know what I'm doing tomorrow. I'm supposed to fly to Marbella tomorrow or get crazy, go to the club. I don't. I don't know. So it's like I, you know, I have an idea of what it looks like. Obviously. I think anyone who. Especially entrepreneurs and guys who are in business, I think every single person has an idea of what their lives are going to look like when they've kind of made it. But what's interesting is I already feel like I have made it, and I make a lot less money than a lot of my friends. But I can say this, and I know they're going to watch this. I truly think, truly I'm happier.

Interesting.

And the reason is, is because what I'm doing currently in the present moment, today was my dream. I can go Anywhere I want to go. I can stay in beautiful five star hotels everywhere in the world. I'm in London. London's one of the most expensive cities on the planet. I'm staying in a five star hotel and I don't have to think about what the price is going to be. I don't have to think about going and spending £150 on lunch, $200 on lunch, whatever. And I don't have to think about these things. That was my dream. When I first started out and I was dead broke, I was like, I just want to be able to like go and take all my friends out to dinner, like go get Chipotle every day and not have to cook for myself, not have to do dishes. Like I want to be able to go and like, like, dude, I have shirts that cost a thousand, over a thousand dollars. Like I have shirts that cost a thousand pounds. Like with the conversion. Like, you know, my shoes I'm wearing right now are a grand. And I don't like say that in like some sort of like way. Like, but that was my. I wanted to buy nice things, right? It's not like I'm buying like hyper luxury watches or something crazy like that, like some people do, which I think are fucking dope. I'm not buying supercars yet, but I have the means to go anywhere that I want in the world within, within reason, for the most part and live a very, very, very nice lifestyle. I can't, you know, charter a 300 foot mega yacht in Mykonos. Like I'm not, I'm not, I'm not going to be going to Mykonos every night, every Sunday and spending 25 grand on a table. But I can live, I live very comfortably. Like I don't have to think about clothes, I don't have to think about food. I just took my, I just. Actually most people would tweet about this, but I'll reveal it on, on your podcast. So I just took my mom on a trip, a week long trip to Italy. I took my girl with me for the past three weeks. Like, you know, and it's those things that make the money worth having, along with the freedom of being able to do whatever I want to do and also not having an alarm clock. And that was my dream because when I used to get up, when my mom used to wake me up for high school, she used to throw buckets of water on me sometimes and like just, you know, like old school and like I'd be getting screamed at, like an old school Italian mom, love her to death. And I just want to do nice things for the people I care about and I have the means to do so. And I don't have to think about clothes, I don't have to think about food. I don't think about where I'm staying. I can afford really nice places when I, when I travel and that's about it. And like, I know, like the bills are paid and I know that things are good. That was my vision when I first started out. Now I have to take that a step further. And now I genuinely want to live like a crazy life that people don't get to live. But that's how my goal post shifted. So now I know that I need more money. And so what's interesting is like you do something very interesting with, well, it's, you do E commerce. Right. You're building a company, you're building a brand. You have automatically infinite scalability to a certain amount of customers. Right. And you also have a consumable product which is repeat customers. So you can create mrr, you can create some subscription methods, you can create a lot of revenue in that business.

Yeah.

Now, a lot of the times you and I think E commerce and brand building, it's the whole. I think it's genuinely the hardest thing to do. I don't know if you would agree. I do agree, but I think it's, it's incredibly, incredibly hard to do. It's really cool overall. It's really hard to do. It's a level 10 opportunity. Especially if you have a brand that just hits the stratosphere. Right. And you've had companies where you've made a ton of money already. So you know. Exactly. You already have the skill set. Right. And the competence to be and the conviction to be able to do it. What's really cool, I think is like, that's a level 10 opportunity. A lot of other business models are not level 10 opportunities. There's no scalability.

Yeah.

So over the past month, actually month, month and a half, I'm starting to pivot a lot of the things that I do. Obviously I'm still going to run the education business, but my vision has changed so much to where I realize that the current thing, sometimes in life you realize that the current thing you're doing is not going to get you to where you need to be or where you want to be. So your scope of reference, you kind of have to zoom out and figure out, okay, well, what is a level 10 opportunity? And that's kind of what I'm doing now and I'm very, very excited about this new thing that I'm going into. And I think it's going to be great. I think we're going to crush. But you realize, like, if you need X amount, if I want to live an insane life, I know I need like at least a 10 piece. I need like at least 10 mil. Right. Like you, money forever. So I know that if I was to assume the current rate of growth, it would take me for the rest of my life to even get there. Yeah, that, that's not going to work for me. It would take me 20, 30 years to even get there if I saved every single dollar. That's the current rate of growth. So how do you, how do you zoom out and how do you increase the scalability? So that's kind of what I've been thinking about. But at the end of the day, it's like, that's where I want to be, that's what I want to do. And that's where my vision has gone. And maybe it'll change and maybe I'll want a more humble lifestyle. But I know I've been to enough places in the world now and I need to go to more. But I know I've been to enough places in the world now where I know where I want to live. I know how much it costs to live there and how much, how much it costs to live a crazy life and live a beautiful one. I think you can do that with no money as well. But money makes it a lot easier.

Completely agree.

It's. It's very interesting. Like when you're, when your vision changes from what you thought, like when you were growing up, you're like. I think it's a sign of maturity because you're not really married to anything.

Yeah.

You know, like any kind of business idea, you're not really married to it. Like you, you can, because you know you can do another one or you know you have the skills to be game again.

Pivoting, just pivot. You gotta choose, make a decision. A decision. A decision leaves you down a certain path.

Here you go.

And you'll end up going for the poor. You'll end up hopefully in the optimum place because obviously with more decisions and more life experience, you decide what, what matters to you, who matters to you, where you want to be, etc. And you become the artist of your own fucking future. Really?

That's a bar.

Yeah. And I think entrepreneurship is the ultimate alchemy to do that. Really. It's very Very, very hard word.

That's a great word.

Yeah, I think it's a great word.

I think it's a great word. I was, for some reason, I was like, I was like, I forget what I was doing, but something came on. It was like. I think it was in my Uber earlier. And like, Gary Vee came on. He was like, talking about, like, entrepreneurs and the new rock stars and all. You know, he's doing very. In very Gary Vee fashion. But it's like, I don't think there's anything else in that exists in the world where you can genuinely have creative control over every aspect of your life. Not only creative control, but control over every aspect of your life besides figuring out how to do it on your own. But there's so many problems that come with that. There's so much stress. Like, I think about the things that I need to do and it's like a million things.

Yeah. I think Andy Prisella said this once, and it's so true. Because entrepreneurship is disgustingly hard. Just. That's the truth. Yeah. But it's the greatest personal development process of all time because it's 24, 7, 365. And it's every area of your life because everything comes into it. Like, you don't clock off.

No.

And, you know, goes beyond just like, the actual tangible work you're doing. It goes into, like, the person you become that is able to do that work, the relationships you build that help that, you know, the fitness you might achieve that puts you in a better state to do that, etc, etc. And yeah, it's kind of mad. We're all just people on a spinning ball of rock, really. But I think entrepreneurship is the greatest opportunity to try and leave your mark for yourself and other people and have some sort of impact.

I agree.

In whatever thing you're doing.

Yeah, man.

Like, and just creating something from nothing is just. I think it's what. I think is what we should be doing.

Like, how good do you feel when. And I agree, like, you have, like. I think creating. Creating something for nothing is the ultimate alchemy.

It's art, really, isn't it?

It's art. It's. It's alchemy. It's creating something from something else. Like, how good do you feel when people buy one of your products and they, like, they leave like, a positive review or they love.

I went on a podcast over there. She's about two hours speaking specifically about the new brand. And it's quite mad because it's one of those it's like the same for when you reflect on like a few months ago and I reflect on like that business didn't exist, that product didn't exist whatsoever. And then you have people like buying it, subscribing to it, saying it's like fucking changed their life or whatever. Yeah. And yeah, that is cool. And it's like, fuck. Like that all just comes from a brain ultimately.

Yeah.

But I also then. So I came up with this like kind of cringe phrase which is like the slogan of the brand now, which is nothing exists until you create.

It's absolutely true.

And it's like, it's kind of like a this like 80s movie sort of vibe, which is what I'm fucking into. But I believe that in every area of life.

Yeah.

Like in terms of like, and this is what have you everything. Like if I fucking. There's a girl I like and I see and I fucking want to be involved. If I don't speak to them or to start something, you know, that's never gonna be a thing.

Yeah.

If I don't start fucking going to the gym, I'm not gonna get in the best shape of my life. If I don't like time is just, time is running out.

Yeah.

And it scares me a lot. And I'm very motivated by that. But, but it's not just in like a business sense. It's like, it's like you were saying, I want to fight. I want to fucking experience everything. Like.

Yeah.

You know, I want to have a great physique. I want to make a lot of money. I want to have a beautiful, beautiful relationship with the most beautiful woman. You know, I want to the health, wealth, love and happiness, like that triad of things or whatever. And I think, I think you, the pursuit of all of that is. It's like what we should be doing as humans basically. But it's very, very hard.

Yeah.

And, and that's the hard thing is that it's hard.

It's because so many people caught up in the hierarchy of needs.

Yeah.

Right. Like they get caught up in like the first two levels of the hierarchy of needs and they never self actualize. And I think actually it's very interesting like just what you just said about entrepreneurship. Entrepreneurship is the ultimate self actualization. You're literally taking an idea, something that you had in your head, in your consciousness. And we don't, as humans, like we don't even know how consciousness exists. Exists. But you're taking an idea that you had in your consciousness based on your experience of the world of the world and creating something from nothing and putting it out there into the world for other people with other consciousnesses to consume crazy shit. And it's like, when you get to a certain level, you can snap your fingers and make it exist.

Yeah, it's crazy.

It's really cool.

Like, leverage.

Yeah. Like, I think about when I. If I pick up a guitar and, you know, I'm not as good as.

Just behind the sofa, oh, I never play that shit anymore. I'm gonna start writing love songs again. You should, because you speak about girls that don't exist.

Because. Yeah, well, because you need it. You need some sort of outlet, right? But, like, I think about guitar, right? Like, I've played enough guitar in my life to where if I pick up the guitar and I start doing things and I start pressing things and. And moving both of my hands and I turn my brain off, some random things happen, and sometimes it sounds good, and I can pick up the guitar and I can just play. And I think that's the ultimate metaphor for life.

Yeah, you.

If. When you get to a certain level of experience or competence or conviction, whatever the hell you want to call it, you can start to pick things up and just play. And that's a beautiful thing to do, right? Like, after you've gone through. Like, you've gone through the shit, like music, for example, guitar, your fingers hurt, you don't want to play anymore, you're making mistakes, you sound like shit. Until one day you play that. You play that minor pentatonic scale or you play that riff, right? Like, I remember what I heard Since I've Been Loving youg by Led Zeppelin, the live version from Madison Square Garden in 1973. And I said, I want to do that. And it took me until I was about 20 years old to get that song right or be able to have the competency to even play that song right? Because I didn't play all that. I stopped for years when I was. When I was in my teens. And, like, I picked it up and. And then I remember. And then I realized how much I loved the creative process. And I love music and I loved art, and I love. I like so many. I like so many things, dude. Fashion, art, design, architect. Like, all the things. Like the things that make the world beautiful, the things that make a place worth visiting or, you know, And I think. And I appreciate that so much because I appreciate craftsmanship.

Yeah.

And when you appreciate craftsmanship and the work and the labor that went into creating something beautiful because you've done that the only way you can appreciate that is if you've done it yourself. Business is the same thing.

Yeah, I actually said this last night again to this girl. I said a lot of why shit. And yeah, I just think like, life is the pursuit of like a beauty and shit. It kind of sounds like flipping and. But to me it is like I'm always just pursuing like movie scene moments and shit. And like even like absolutely the best clips from a podcast kind of feel like that because it's just like discussing powerful things with like nice lights and shit. Yeah, like a moment with someone that you fucking have wanted to see for a long time is the same sort of shit. You know, a moment on a trip that you remember forever could be the same sort of thing. I feel like my entire life is just trying to run away from like the mundane and try and make everything and. And yeah, like the creation of fucking, you know, listen to music, putting certain lights on, like certain smells, creating something that looks aesthetically pleasing. It's all just escaping from the mundane of just basic human existence. And for me, I just feel like I'm running away from just normality and trying to create like this fucking dream world, which is like what it says on that fucking canvas. So I think deep down that's what it's all about. It's just like trying to live as much as I can.

I think you're doing it well in.

That sort of vibe.

I think you're doing it very well. I really do. But I feel like I'm in Blade Runner right now.

Yeah, it's cool.

Like. There's a. And thought for some reason I always get to talking about like, philosophy for some reason. And I always bring up the myth of Sisyphus, but I'm not gonna bring it up here because it doesn't relate. But there was an anthology of like, philosophy writings that I read when I was 18 and it completely. I remember, like, I don't remember what half of them said, but I remember it just changed my perspective. And my perspective now is quite relationary to what I read in these books, I think. And this guy named Soren Kierkegaard wrote something called it's like Death into Despair. And he talks about how every single person lives. And it's also, I believe it's based on Buddhism. But he wrote this, he wrote this word, this essay on how every single human lives their lives in despair. And their entire goal, the entire goal of life is to bring yourself from the depths of despair and to finally get out of it. And his whole point of the essay was very, it was very morbid. But he said the only way we can get out of despair is if we can die or something like that. And if I'm wrong, please feel free to roast me in the comments. But, and it was very interesting because it goes in line with Buddhism is life is suffering. And I think everyone needs to create some sort of escapism where they run away from the suffering. Because especially in business, right? Like, dude, like we probably both could do a fraction of what we do now and go live on a beach in Bali and just relax and eat coconuts and eat avocados and eat pancakes and chill.

Yeah, right.

But there's something inside of us that we where we don't do that. Right. I think, and I think some men have the ability to conquer the world and some men don't. But it's very interesting because a lot of the times it's based on the running away from suffering. And that's the whole point of trying to find enlightenment. And I think we can kind of create moments of enlightenment in our lives all the time. Yeah, it's one of the reasons I travel so much. It's one of the reasons why you have these lights here that say create your own reality. Because you're right, because. Because every single day we try to find our own sense of enlightenment to take away the suffering. And actually in business itself, induced suffering most of the time. And actually I would go as far as to say most people have a choice. And most people in the world, actually, I'm not gonna say most people because there are some people in fucked up situations. A lot of people in the world are suffering from their own self induced despair. Instagram. What did we talk about at the beginning of this podcast? Instagram caused social media attention spans, everything. There are some people, you know, in, in very remote parts of the world who are experiencing horrible lives, right. Who just lost children to, you know, some warlord or something like that. And that's real despair. That's real. Right. Or losing a family member to cancer or having a family member like some, like real stuff. But most people living their everyday lives, these are who I'm referencing, suffer from their own self induced despair. I have to pay my car, I have to pay my lease. I have to, I can't go here. I have to do this. Oh, I have to go to my job, get my weight, get my wages, get my paycheck. You don't have to do any of that. It's your choice.

Right?

And it's it goes back. I want to relate this to how I was like, I had, you know, I was listening to a video of Christian LeBlanc say, oh, I moved to Thailand with two grand. And I was like, I saved up my first $2,000 and I moved and I said, fuck it, right? He could have stayed in that job that he had. Be like, oh, I'm not gonna leave until I have a hundred grand. I gotta pay my lease, I gotta pay my car rent. I gotta pay my car, I gotta pay my rent, I gotta pay this, I gotta pay that. He's the guy that just said, fuck it. And he's ridiculously successful. And I think most people need to grab them, especially most guys, right? But most people need to just grab themselves by the balls and say, nah, nah, I'm not gonna put up with this anymore. If you're a type of person that doesn't want to live how they're currently living because it's genuinely self induced despair. My entire, those two years from when I was 22 to 24, was absolutely self induced despair. It was all a mix. I had the money, I had enough money to live for a year. By my fifth or sixth month working, right. Full year, just. I could have lived the same. Nothing would have changed. I would have my. My nice car, I would have my nice apartment, whatever, and I would have been chilling. I would, I would have still ate at restaurants almost every day. Like, nothing would have changed. And I had like two or three years of Runway and I'm like, why am I doing this? Self induced despair. So check out. If you guys are into philosophy, you guys want to actually read. I know some people probably listen to you read a lot of books. Soren Kierkegaard and then check out Albert Camus. Albert Camus the boy, and then Friedrich Nietzsche.

I need to read more. I'm trying to. Trying to be more.

Are you not a reader? You seem like you're a very intellectual guy.

Yeah, I wouldn't say I'm naturally a reader because I struggle to sit down and just focus on one thing, which is why I need to do it more. But philosophy as well. Yeah, I've got a bunch of books I need to fucking read, but I don't know where I get mine. What appears to be knowledge from maybe just life. Different sources.

Yeah. Like, I think the craziest thing I heard in philosophy was like, obviously, like, you have like the fucking. I'm a reference to the myth of Sisyphus. It's like he's pushing a boulder he gets sentenced to hell, he gets sentenced to Hades and it's a Greek myth. He gets sentenced to Hades and he's got to push a boulder up a hill for the. Up to the top of Mount Olympus, or mountain for the rest of eternity. And then as soon as the boulder gets to the top of the mountain, it falls and he has to go and his sentence is to walk all the way down the mountain and do it again, and do it again, do it again and do it again for eternity. And the message in it is one must imagine him happy because there's beauty in the struggle, because you find pleasure in the journey and the whole. And you can imagine the whole metaphor is for life. Right. Especially when you start at the bottom. When you start at the bottom, you're pushing that boulder out of hell and then finally you get to the top of the mountain and something goes wrong. Drafts again.

Yeah, right.

But the journey is in the climb. Like, did you, like when you had your, when you bought your Ferrari, right? Was did you have more fun when you had the Ferrari or was the journey fun? Trying to get it?

I definitely trying to get it.

Why?

It's probably the same with like certain girls and other things as well.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

In many ways. Even though that can fucking drive me crazy, but. Because I think it's the, the imagination and the. Yeah, it's like the carrot that's dangling in front, in front of you, whatever that goal is. Almost all goals I've achieved are anti climatic, I think, which is kind of maybe a, like a dark truth of life. But then that's why.

Yeah, you're right.

The pursuit kind of is, is the, is the beautiful thing or whatever. There's definitely a euphoric moment, whatever when that happens, but it fades, it's very fleeting and it ends pretty quick. But yeah, I think that's why you have to find what's worth pursuing and ultimately find something that might take you beyond a lifetime to actually do. So you can always pursue it, you know, whatever that is. But I'm still figuring that out for sure.

Yeah, I mean, you're right. Like not ever. I don't think every goal is anticlimactic, but life is serious.

Not everybody. I think the most things, you know, once you've done can only last so long. That kind of feeling of achievement.

Yeah, because I think at the end of the day life is a series of moments and those, those moments afterwards may seem anticlimactic, but I think when you look back on it, you're like, yeah, that was really fucking cool.

Yeah. Another thing I've kind of noticed in life is often I won't appreciate the moment until it's done. And so. But by default, even when I'm aware of that, whether it's like a trip to Mykonos or a moment with someone or, you know, it's like almost. I can almost look forward to the nostalgia of looking back on that moment being like, oh, that was special. Yeah. But in the. And then you can never go back to that because all we have is the present. And it's so cliche.

Yeah.

But it's also, like, terrifying but, like, beautiful at the same time. And, like, I think nostalgia is, like, a beautiful sadness, and that's a feeling that I kind of like. So just looking back at times and thinking that was. That was special or cool. And you can only do that looking back in hindsight.

You know what the best songs are? The ones that make you feel nostalgic of a feeling that you've never had.

So true.

Like, dude, I remember. I remember being, like, 8 years old and hearing, like, wake me up when September ends, My green Day. And you were like, bro, like, we're like, six, seven, eight years old. We're listening to. And it's like, oh, like, yeah, I know.

That song I've not even thought about for, like, a decade. That's a powerful song.

Or something like Black Parade.

Mmm. Yeah. Wow.

Like, if you've lost somebody that you loved in your life because as a kid, right? Like, when we were growing up, like, it's like, that's like. That's. Or like, something like Walking Black Parade, Right? Like, that song is about a boy reminiscing on the loss of a young man reminiscing on the loss of his father.

Yeah.

It's crazy, right? And like. Like, things like that are, like, all the old Zeppelin songs, right? Like, what is it? You got Heart. You got Heartbreaker by Zeppelin. Right? Or you got Since I've Been Loving you, where he's like. He's talking about his girl cheating on him, right? I walked in the front door, I heard the back door slam, right? And it's just like, when you. When you were older, and I think when, like, growing up, it's like, those songs already made us feel nostalgic. And now when I listen to those songs, I'm like, whoa. Yeah, that's what he was saying.

Yeah.

Like, you were like, you know, John John Mayer Battle Studies When. Or the song Assassin, right? And it's like, you can listen to that song when you're a kid, it's like, little did I know that girl was an assassin, too. And then, like, when you live your life and you grow up, you're like, you meet some. You meet some. You meet some people. And it's like, whoa. Like, I feel this. Like, I really feel this song. And I go back and I think I listen. I listen to a lot of that music, and it brings me to a place where it's like, wow, like, I miss. You'll miss, like, a certain memory or maybe not a person. So you might miss a certain person, but you'll miss a certain. Certain memory or the feeling that you had in that moment. And I think it's good to do that. But, yeah, you're absolutely right. The fucking moment is like, I'm gonna.

End up putting on some deep music after this pod and just, like, crying myself to sleep about some deep memories. But, no, it's crazy. I feel like we could go on for fucking three hours, five hours with this shit. But I want to wrap it up shortly.

Yeah, absolutely.

And a question I ask everyone now it's become tradition almost, and it's an opportunity for you to think and be introspective, is if you could give three bits of advice to yourself at 18, knowing what you know now about life, business, everything, just broadly, you know, covering every area, what would they be? And there's probably plenty, but you have to. The three that come to you, I think, are probably the most.

So one each or about all three.

Just three bits of advice.

Life, business, and.

Well, it can be anything. All three can cover anything. It's any part of life. Because I got asked this question on my own pod, and it was difficult to answer, but it was, I think, powerful.

This is hard. There's so many things I want to say.

So. Got pick three.

This will be a cool moment, actually, with. With the video. Okay, so number one, stop doubting yourself. And the reason why is. And I'll give the reason why. Because I lived my life for so long, always fearing the reason I didn't. And actually, when I told the lacrosse story, the reason I feel like I didn't perform or play as well as that I thought. Well, as I. As I knew that I could perform was because of my. Because I was scared that I would miss a shot or I was scared I was gonna drop the ball and that mentality. So if I had to go back and be 18 and be. I would say, stop doubting yourself and really, truly believe it and do everything that you possibly can to get into the mode of actually genuinely believing in yourself with relationships. I would tell myself that people who aren't for you are not gonna ever be for you. Reason being is because a lot of people, and especially when I was younger, especially girls, it's better to, it's better to know early than to know later. And it's better to be efficient and not waste your time and not pine after something or be completely, you know, chasing an enigma or something. That, because most people actually, it's funny and the reason I say this is because a lot of, and not only girls, but in just terms of people, relationships, business, whatever, a lot of the times we chase an enigma and an idea of how things could be and then when we actually get there, they're not actually how we thought they would be, they're a lot worse. Or that person or you are not the same that you thought you were going to be or that person or that girl is not, not what you thought they would be. Or that relationship is not as perfect as you wanted it to be. And so not only that, but just don't expect much but over deliver and enjoy. And when we, when we under, we under promise and over deliver or have lower expectations and it's better, it actually makes things better. Instead of having incredibly high expectations, instead of, instead of having incredibly high expectations being disappointment, disappointed, we're actually really surprised. So that's cool. And then in life, like, stand by your word and when you get started on something, do it and stop doubting yourself again. That's about it. I think I would be a lot further ahead if I didn't grow up with a lot of self doubt or have, have self doubt at all. But it's a very hard thing to eliminate. So I think that's it. Just off the top of my head, that's it. I could probably think for hours and be like, oh, like, you know, buy bitcoin or yeah, like we're like, yeah.

That'S good, that's good.

So that's really it, man. I appreciate, I appreciate you a lot for having me on, man.

It's been a good chat.

I think so.

We covered a lot of shit.

I think so.

Interesting.

For some reason I thought I was gonna be a little bit more loud and a little bit more like kind of in your face and punchy kind of how I tend to be. But you do a very good job of cultivating and creating a vibe. Just a very relaxed space.

That's the plan. So if it works, I'm glad.

No, no, it Does I expect to be, like, in your face? Like, no, they did it, like, do this, this, this, this, like, you know, so. But yeah, it's been beautiful. I'm really liking London, man, I gotta say.

Yeah, it's cool. You should move here.

I should move. I don't know if I could. I don't know if I could live here full time. Yeah, I kind of been doing this thing now where, like, I live anywhere it's warm. But I was walking down Regent street today. I mean, shopping.

The weather's been crazy recently.

The weather's been really nice. It feels like la. But I was walking down Regent street and I'm just like. I'm like, man, I'm like, honestly, like, I miss kind of wearing a jacket. Like, I miss. I miss it being a little cold.

Like, I miss kind of feeling, like, too hot.

I miss feeling the wind on my. Like, I'm like, damn. Like, I miss, like, you know, I miss. I miss wearing, like, jackets and stuff. Like, my outfit. I'm like, damn. Like, I'm in, like, a. Same kind of shirt you got on, like, today. I was like, I'm just in that and, like, some jeans and, like, some sneakers. I'm like, what the. Like, kind of miss it being cold because I've been like, in warm weather consistently for almost a year and a half now.

Yeah, you'll have to think about it for sure. Yeah. Great. Classic episode. Over two and a half hours. This might be the longest probably ever done. At least according to what's on the screen. If you enjoyed the midnight pod, subscribe. Go check out David's stuff. We'll put links in the bottom.

Put links. It's. It's Hooby. I. I got a Hooby now. Yeah, it's. Who be dxvid Because David Dobrik took. Took my name.

Yeah.

What an. Took my name. Like, who does he do this like? I think he is.

That's how it goes. Subscribe to the pod, like the video. Send us your favorite friend, all that good sh. And we'll catch you in the next episode. Cheers for watching.

See ya.

Peace.

Bye.