Creating Dream Factory, Team Building & Startup Culture - Graham Hussey | The Midnight Pod Ep 61

Just to let you know, I don't plant any of these fucking pods. We literally start chatting and I wing it and that's it. Are we filming it? We can use that as like a little intro code.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I need to trademark that pinker blue or something.

So good.

Something about the combination.

Yeah. I'm getting like, I got hammered with your Instagram ads. Pops up.

Really? Right, we're back with. So fucking weird not having a big mic.

Yeah.

Because I'm so used to going, we.

Get you a fake, fake mic, it's fine.

We're back with episode 61. Am I looking at the camera on. This is so fucking. You can keep this in. This is so fucking formal to set up and it's throwing me off. Back with episode 61, the Midnight Board. We've got Graham Hussey. We're in the Dream factory. Is it the Dream Factory? Dream Factory. I guess it's the factory of dreams, something like that. And we have the correct pink and blue hues. And I feel very out of my depth because we're in a proper studio and I was just saying it feels like we're doing Justin Bieber 10 things I can't Live without or something. And we do have a 10 pound unit of prime energy drink. If I was 10 years younger, I would care about this.

Yeah.

Because I'm not. I just like the taste.

But you actually like it.

What one's that tropical punch?

I. That lemon lime, which tastes like flat seven Up.

Yeah. I mean, I'm actually working on the idea of doing like a ready to drink kind of mushroom energy drink style thing. Kind of like prime meets mushrooms. Gradient can or something. But it takes so fucking long to make.

Yeah.

As does every consumable product. I'm learning, but, like, with every pod we're gonna go through your story. I'm gonna learn a lot because I'm probably the worst fucking host ever. Because I don't do research. I just come on and figure it's like a conversation. It's never an interview. We just have a fucking chat. You've obviously got an interesting fucking story. I've done a bit of research. I say I don't do any research. I do a little bit. Dream Factory is obviously not your first venture. You said you've been in content for ages. I've just realized you're fucking from Dublin or near Dublin.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm proudly half Irish with 12 Irish cousins from Clontarf. Where's the start entrepreneurially for you? Like going back? I'm gonna guess I don't know how old you are, but bit older than me. Definitely more experienced, do you reckon?

Oh, that's a nice way to put it. More experienced. I'm 33.

Yeah.

Yeah. The worst age to be in Irish person. But I. But you know what it's like the entrepreneurial journeys. I usually go my previous business, which is startup band, which was I ran for seven years before this. But truth be told, I was always up to some. Right. I was always up to something. I tried to do, launch a waterless car wash business.

How's that work?

Doesn't. Which is hilarious. I got this stuff from California and Big. It's so stupid now I think about it. And you basically spray it onto cars. This was his pitch. You spray onto cars. Doesn't need water. Environmentally friendly, but it was all sorts of shite in it. And they basically go between the dirt and the paint and create a seal. You can wipe it off. I said, that's the best thing ever. Can you do it?

Like, I've heard about this somewhere.

Yeah. Underground car parks. I was like, you don't need hoses, you don't need drainage. This is going to be billions. So I got the European rights to it off this dude. Turned out he's a bit of a scam artist, but got the European rights to it. And a leaflet dropped like 10,000 leaflets in Dublin and got a phone call off someone.

When was this? Like, this is way back 10 years ago.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I got a phone call saying, hey, my truck, I want you to like, use as wireless car washer. Got your, like, number. I go, yeah. So I went around to it and it was covered in like cow shit. So it's like 4x4. Was covered like that thick of cow. And I'm there just a little squirty bottle. And he left me the keys. I remember thinking, this is not gonna fucking work. So I drove around to a car wash, washed it, and then dropped it back around to him and pretend, pretended.

It was your dude.

I think I made 3 quid profit on that and then just gave up. I was like, this is just not going to work. And California is different with dust.

Right.

This shit's not going to fly here. That was probably one of the first.

Things I did was that like, you need to go to uni. How far we going back?

Like, I didn't go. I went. I went to like college, like a month. And I was like, it, multimedia. And I was like, fuck, I'm not arth. I Just couldn't. I definitely have like adhd. I just couldn't, couldn't concentrate. Oh, fuck, why am I here? And I'm constantly just bouncing around. I couldn't, couldn't actually focus on it. I was like, I need to get out of here and do something. And I did all sorts of stuff. I worked for Honda, like car sales instead of going to uni. And then I worked for Oracle, IBM, all these big tech companies. But I couldn't last. I just couldn't. I don't know why the. Am I sitting at a desk doing like this shit that doesn't really.

Yeah.

For a company that has 400,000 employees, like, what the fuck's going on?

I was always very like that. Kind of sporadic and I don't know, adhd, is that the word? Everyone fucking says that these days. But I did loads of different things. But I just knew I didn't want to be a civilian, as I would call it now, Tongue in cheek, like. Whereas my twin brother, funnily enough, it's like an interesting case study. Twin brothers don't look alike.

Yeah.

Exact opposite to me really. He probably doesn't watch this shit. Yeah. Like just uni, master's degree, steady girlfriend. Always different ones, but always. Yeah, yeah. I mean I was just always like, I don't know what the fuck I want to do, but I just want to do my own thing. And then just did loads of.

Have you had him on the show?

No.

That would be crazy.

It is quite interesting. It'd be like a good study to do because what, what happened, like, who hurt me when I was 16, pushed me to probably a girl, but that pushed me down this, this road. But yeah, yeah. It's like a weird to that being like quite random and shit.

Wasn't that the Andrew Tate thing? Not to compare you to Andrew Tate.

Yeah.

And he was like you or whatever.

I don't know. I mean I'm definitely. I hope it's romantic. So there's always a girl.

Female viewers.

Yeah. I mean that's where the pink and blue probably comes from. Is it fucking like listening to 1975 at night. Wanted to fucking make movies and shit.

Fuck sake.

But yeah, I think it's interesting now because I'm going off on a tangent now, but I see a lot of founders that come on my pod and shit and a lot of them are like MBA founders is kind of what I call them, like gone through like a formal education. There's nothing wrong with that. But like it's different way of doing It. And then they sort of hire people. And from day one, it feels like a lot more formal. Like, guys that raised loads of money to start, like, a cereal brand. There's one guy I was speaking to you recently, cool guy, but it's just like, I can't relate to that because I just started when I was like, in a burger bar, working in the burger bar. You know, I did some Facebook ads, all that shit, and it's like a different path. Figure out your own thing.

All I do every single day, see founders come through the door here, and there's. There's. There's two and. And one isn't better than the other, I don't think. Right. I know which path I would want, which is the one I took. But there's two very different sides of the fence on. On this founder life, right? It's people who went to uni, got a job in the city, save some money, decide to leave and launch a brand with a bit of a war chest. And then, yeah, they were just a bit more rogue. I went, I need to make cash.

High risk. Yeah, definitely. And how did that go for you then after this fucking car cleaning?

Well, you know, it was like, I was always interested in business. I was always interested in tech. I think I probably looked up to people who had, like, the courage to go do something, right? So I was working these corporate jobs, just fucking hating it. But I'd read, like, TechCrunch, a business insider. I'd be like, that person's cool as fuck to actually go off. And they don't have to answer to anyone. They can do their own thing. They make tons of cash. They make tons of cash. If I made a ton of cash for Oracle, they didn't care, Right? There was no right where, like, you know, in Dream Factory, we grow Dream Factory, there's like a gold. It's a big thing. But Oracle or whatever, IBM was just. You're in this cubicle, thousands of other people. What the is this about? So. So, yeah, I was reading Tech like Tech Runners, Business Insider, and I started just going, these questions are dog. And I know now why they're dog, right? Because they're journalists. I'm never going to get featured in any of these publications now. But the journalists don't really give a. Right. Yeah, they're paid to write a story about finding a tech company. They don't actually give a. So I started. I just created a domain and started, like, emailing these founders going, do you want to be featured in my tech website? Like, News like fundraisers, all this sort of stuff. And they were like. And everyone said, yes, but I had zero readers. I had no history, nothing. And every.

People do love speaking about themselves. That's the thing I learned. Anyone will come on a podcast, it's hilarious. Unless they're like an A list.

No one ever asked, yeah, who reads this? Never once. So I was getting all these, like, really good founders that are making moves. And then Web Summit, this big tech conference started in Dublin and now is in lisbon. Things like 180,000 attendees every year. It's the biggest one in Europe. That was in Dublin at the time. So I was like, hell, I need to film at that. Sick. I'm cat wide for the blog's dog anyway. So it's like no one read it. I didn't enjoy writing it, but I loved speaking to the founders on the phone or on Skype or whatever. And I was like, right, but I can't turn on a camera. That's issue one. So I went to a production company in Dublin. I was like, I want to film with founders, but I want to do it differently. At Web Summit, I met up with this dude in Dublin. He was like, yeah, but where are you going to film? And I was like, well, inside the fucking conference center with spenders finding what's going on, what brings me to Dublin. Their story, similar to what we're doing now. Just shoot the. Shoot the breeze. Not. This was like seven, eight years ago, right? So this was like very. Every business podcast was or interview. Suit and tie and a founder and a hoodie and trainers with some bell and a suit and tie interview. I didn't really give a fuck. So I was like, right, I want to do it a bit differently. But the guy from the production company was like, it's going to look and sound like shit because you're going to be in the conference center, it's going to be noisy as fuck. No one's going to watch it. As soon as I hit play, I'm going to switch it off. You need to get a studio. It's like hell. And this is something I realized to this day is that sometimes you just need to roll with the escalations, I think, right? It's just because you need to get a studio. And I didn't go, oh, I leave it. So I was like, ah, fuck studio. Okay, we're doing it bigger. And it just kind of went along with the whole thing. Hence where we are now, it's the same thing. It's like, let's just roll with these escalations and keep going. And then there was no studio in Dublin that was within a 40 minute drive of this conference. It's like, how do I get a studio there? What does that look like? So I got a land of this Ford Transit van off a mate of mine and I put a couch in the back of it. And it was mental Gary B.

Story about this. Yeah, yeah.

I was just like, what the fuck is this? As you honestly look like it's gonna murder people at this tech conference, but we're onto something because I fucking sounds good. And it actually looks quite cool because all you see is what's in on the fucking through the lens, right? But around the parking that up at Web Summit with Lux look like the electrician just left his van here.

What the fuck?

So I end up going, what's like this but less murderer vibes. And we ended up getting like a 1959 hippie bus. Oh yeah, it's sick. So we went on these owners because they're expensive, right? So you got these owners clubs, websites and ended up getting like this one off this old lady that lives in the county Wicklow, just outside Dublin. She gave us her where we paid her, but she let us have the van and we basically like get the wrenches out. We tore out the inside and put in a studio and we did the same test shoot again, but it looked sick. That sounded great and it was like a bit of a thing. I was like, all right, we'll call it Startup Van cause we can't think of a better name. And then called Web Summit and they were like, best idea ever, like, let's do it. And it was fucking three minute phone call.

Was this like a side thing at this point?

Yeah, this was just on the side with Oracle or what, IBM?

Yeah, right, yeah.

And then I was like come off the phone going, that was fucking remarkably easy. But then I was to convince myself, you know, as a founder, you're like, that was easy. But you convince yourself why? I was like, well, they need content. It's something interesting. It's a value add. These are paying 800 quid to come Web Summit. It's a value add for that. And then I got an invoice for 87 and a half thousand euros from Webson. And I called going, is that, is that, is that for me? Is that what the going on? They're like, well, Microsoft or whoever would pay that much money for that square footage in our conference, so why would we not charge you? I was like, I'm Not Microsoft one. And it had, like, not a route. I was like, like, I shot a promo video. I announced we were filming at Web Summit. You know, you get cart before the horse stuff with founders. As soon as I come off, the phone's like, right, promo video.

Never told you this.

Never do this. Sounds good. Let's do it. Like, here's the dates, here's the. Here's the space you'll be parked in. Let's go. Three minutes.

Fuck.

Easy as fuck. So announced that on Twitter. And then what I did was I just basically, like, followed every single person that followed Web Summit. And it was like filming. In filming fairness at Web some. It was on the bio. So I see people talking, oh, I want to be in. Because everyone, like we said, everyone wants to be fucking featured. So everyone started following back. And we shot a promo video. We got like, drones. Like, back then, it was like, more expensive. Have drones or whatever.

Yeah.

And. And I said to Webster, we're after this shit, and they're like, we don't give a fuck. And it was this big thing. I was like, right, what will we do? Let's park the van in Temple Bar in Dublin where just people go and get pissed after the conference. And it worked. Like, we just pulled up outside Dublin, dropped a Google Map in, tweeted it, and we had queues of people all night wanting to be interviewed. I think we did like, 120, maybe more interviews across three days. But what we did was we had an editor come in at like three in the morning or something, get the files, take it off, edit it throughout the night. We were releasing Web Summit videos before Web Summit, so when someone searched Web Summit, it was startup on coming up before Web Summit proper.

How long was each interview? I'm guessing not two hours, 120?

No, no. Like three, four minutes. But the thing is, we were like, it wasn't a fuck you to Webster, but it was more like a, you know, what do you actually think of Web Summit, Right? Like, you paid this much money to come here? A lot of it was like, yeah, they told me I won a competition, you know, to come to Dublin. And then after I won the competition, they wanted five grand off me for this booth, which is only one meter, and we only had half a day with it. You know, it was like the truth coming out. I was loving it. I was like, brilliant. Keep this coming because they're drinking or whatever.

You didn't pay that 87k invoice, I'm guessing.

No. Yeah, definitely not. But looking back now, People that drunk and not signing release forms. I don't even know if that would have been. Would have stood up. But anyway, we released it and didn't really care. And then we were handing out these business cards and paid like 20 quid for it and they had like a Gmail on it. Gmail account, like startup on@gmail.com was handing these out. So I back into IBM that Monday, I was like back. I felt what it felt like to be a founder of like running this thing, making the decisions, not answering to anyone and actually getting a level of respect off other founders, going, respect for getting this van, getting this gear, getting all these people doing something cool. So I'm back in like a little bit depressed on that Monday morning, like putting on my tie like a bell and going into this, going into this job.

Back into the Matrix.

Yeah, basically, right? And I sat down to desk what opened up Gmail and I seen like loads of founders going, hey, where can I get my footage? Thanks for the interview. And then some invites to like different cities to come film. But they were just founders, like, hey, I'd love for you to come to Nice to film with me in France. I was like, oh, that would be sick. But I have a job, right? But then there was ones in there, like Oracle was one, funny enough. And then Sage, the accountancy software company, PwC, EY, there was these emails dotted in between, which was basically like, we paid web summit 150 grand and we were handing out mouse pads for fucking three days. Nobody fuck about. Yeah, we were there for drinks and people are queuing for the startup van thing. So how can we get involved? I was like, fuck, how can they get involved? Didn't have a fucking breeze. And then a couple of days later I ended up going to the Shard to meet Sage and they were just like, we don't. They were really sound actually. They were like, we don't want to change it, we just want to help bring this around the world and sponsor it. I was like, fuck. So Bakken had to come up with a price. Yeah, where the fuck do you start doing that? Right? Because I looked at my yearly salary and went, if we're going to travel the world for a year, if I charge them that yearly salary, the tiny bit on top, that's fucking great for me, right? Don't have to come into IBM every day, can go travel the world and do this, they'll pay expensive and I'll get around about my yearly salary. And I spoke to this dude who's actually haven't spoken to him in a while but he like had creative agencies and stuff. He's like sage is a multi billion dollar company and they are like throwing 150 grand for three days at web somewhere. You're going to travel the world for a year with them sponsoring and you're going to charge this much. He's, he like saved me a massive up because you're back in with a fairly hefty sponsorship package. And they were like, yeah, done. And I went back in the day after. So between Web Summit and me quitting my job was about a week, something like that.

Crazy.

And then just left, went to Chicago.

Did they pay you anything before you quit? Just like agreed and it was gonna happen.

Yeah, I took a bit of a shot because like it's 90 day payment terms and all sorts of stuff so you have to write. I was like. And I was already getting a bit of heat. I was calling sick and I was like just trying to get out of it and stuff like that. But you had to take a shot. Yeah, but then the shot was minimal. I'd signed a contract with a multi billion dollar company. So it was like.

So where were you putting this shit back then like seven years ago? Instagram, YouTube.

YouTube. Facebook was huge. Yeah, Facebook was big. And then basically I said the same as like getting the the footage at 3am, editing it throughout the night and releasing it first. I was like, the way we win here is to be first on everything. So as soon as Facebook Live was released, we used OBS software to basically fake Facebook lives to produce proper content. We edit it, multi camera setup and then we do Facebook Live. So people looking at it, people do Facebook lives off their look like a Nokia, right. So we were coming into these Facebook lives that look sick. Which got loads of traction because Facebook were pushing live because they just released it. So between there and YouTube were like the two places that we posted it.

Then what the fuck happened? You go worldwide, did that for years. Did you hire anyone?

Yeah, it was really small teams. It was me, my co founder and a videographer basically for years. Super lean operation. And then we, we filmed with a dude in Hong Kong. He's like a senior director of like HSBC or something and he was fucking nice dude. We know some stuff gets under your skin and you maybe have a point to prove. We were out for dinner and we have lots of whiskeys and he got really drunk and it was. I love what you guys do. So cool. Because I just wonder what I don't give a Shit, if you didn't have these cool vans. I was like, that's a rude thing to say. I laid awake that night thinking, is he fucking right? Like, how long is this vintage Volkswagen band film studio thing gonna be cool for? Will people actually care? So like a month later we got, you know, a pier here, you can get pop ups around London and stuff. Yeah, I got one in Old Street Station just right beside where people go down into the tube and like built out a studio kind of like that set over there. Actually that fucking couch was in it and, and did the pop up studio and it got ton of attention. BBC business came down, loads of founders came down and that was us proving it's not the fucking van, it's how we interview people. It's actually because we give a shit that we got.

So the whole concept broadly was just getting people that haven't shared their stories to do a quick interview. People love it because it's anyone.

Yeah.

Rather than just people on a pedestal.

Well, my thing is, before I started startup van, if I wanted to watch video content with founders, it was like Richard Branson.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And you're like, it's such a, such a fucking leap to go, you know, and like, oh yeah, you know, like you should work really hard. And he hops on his private jet off the neck.

Yeah. And everyone's heard that story 100 times anyway.

Yeah. But to me it's actually cooler to hear someone who's a little bit ahead six months in business, you know, 50km or. Because then you're like, oh, like I could do that, I can do that. Right. Or like it's relatable more on a level than actual fucking billionaire. Right.

It's exactly what I thought about, thought about on the pod.

Yeah.

That's why I started it, really.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's just more relatable. Right. And then there's some people that kick around and you walk by them in the street and then you don't realize that they have this business and they're kind of under the radar, which we spoke off camera. Yeah, I think it's really fucking cool. Versus someone who's like, you know, kicking around in a. Yeah. Lamborghini or whatever.

So did that ever become a problem in terms of like scaling, like I was saying about my own pod? Because obviously I think, oh, if I got fucking Molly Mae on, we'd probably get a million views. But does she fit the niche? Maybe not. Is it authentic? I don't know.

Yeah, it did. It definitely did. Like it was, it was definitely an issue that people were coming to us because we would get more viewership than if they did it. But then from where we're sitting, well, they share on their Facebook or share it on their Instagram and we probably do an extra four views.

Yeah, right.

So it did take a while to ramp that up. We interviewed Gary Vee, which.

Which, yeah, I've read about that.

Yeah, which made. Which made a big difference.

Right, so how did that come about? Tell the story.

Oh yeah, this is from LinkedIn the other day. Yeah, I didn't know who the fuck he was. First of all, not a breeze. And then one of my mates goes, oh, Gary Vee's coming to Dublin. He's filming at Dublin Tech Summer or something like that. What replaced, actually, what replaced Web Summit. Because in Web Summit left, left for Lisbon, a lot of in Dublin went, right, there's a space here for a tech conference in this city. And his speaking fee was 250 grand. Just do a keynote, which blows my mind for like watch his YouTube videos. He says the same, but anyway, it's like a game, right? They get the him for 250k. Do we sell 350k in tickets? Like that's the balancing act of that shit. But basically just messaged his videographer because I watched loads of. After I realized who the fuck he was, I watched loads of his videos and he was talking about time being valuable, respecting people's time, adding value, messages, videographer, and said, you know, you have to get to the airport anyway. We have a company called Startup Van. We can film you in this van on the way to the airport. Save your taxi fare. Not that he gives a fuck about it, but save your taxi fare. And we get some sick content. And his video wife wrote back saying, yeah, killer, Gary loves it. We're in. And that got us like a load of exposure in the US especially, right? So we booked loads of tech comments off the back of that and actually posted that on LinkedIn the other day. And some bell end he wasn't about, he was alright in case he wants it, but he basically called me out on it.

We're keeping that in.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. But he basically called me out on it. We could put screenshots up, maybe. He called me out and it was like, I'd love to see the original messages. And I was like, well, yeah, that's a whole nother LinkedIn posted, LOL. And he goes, well, no, I want to see like the original message. I'll donate a grand to Charity. If you show me the original messages. All right. And I screenshot the tweets back and forth and I sent them to him and I go, grant to Cancer Research uk, please do. And he wrote back saying, no, no, not the public ones, the private ones. Like, what is wrong with this dude? So I screenshot it back to private.

Emails he's got a fetish for. But Gary dms.

Yeah, yeah. How niche is that? But I screenshot and wrote it back. And then he says, yeah, fair play. I've been calling people out at LinkedIn for two years and you're the first person ever, you know, do me in like this. So he only sent a screenshot. He donated a grant to cancer research. So that's why I said, and now he's not a bell end. And blah, blah, blah, previous pre, bell end.

Whatever you want. Yeah. So after you set up, done the whole band thing, you've done the pop ups.

Yeah.

What was the expansion plan beyond that and I guess how soon after did that end up blending, kind of becoming dream factory? What was the. Well, it sounds similar.

Yeah.

Yeah. But what was the thought process?

Well, we had signed a partnership deal with Volkswagen, which makes total sense. We're vintage Volkswagen camper vans. Volkswagen were planning this new id, like electric thing and they have a big tech division. So Volkswagen's startup business tech division has like hundreds of employees I never even heard of. And they're like, this fits the bill. We need content. You do it in a Volkswagen already, just fucking fits. I was like, cool. So we signed, signed a contract with them to basically travel the world. They pay for the whole thing, sponsorship, really good money. And then Covid happened.

Yeah.

And then you're like pissing in the wind, going up against, going up against Volkswagen lawyers. So it's like, right force majeure in the contract, like gone, pulled. And I was kind of just kicking around doing all right. But again, it was like in the flat, you can only leave once a day. It was like losing my mind. And then I just started talking to founders about content. So they're probably because I interviewed 3,000 of them face to face, right over.

Like, yeah, it's a lot.

It's a ton. So my WhatsApp is like loads of founders in it and I was like, right. And I'm very glass half full. Right. I think you need to be able to lose your mind when Covid off. What are you doing about content? I was throwing ideas. You should do like a sex tech show with a female founders in the audience and do Every week. And here's how it will impact your brand and everything else. Why'd you do it? And they get super excited about it, and then they hit a brick wall of like. Like, we don't have the money to do a Fucking Live weekly YouTube show with studio audience. It's not a thing. Or we have the money, but we actually don't have the time because we're busy founders. When do we have the time to produce a show like this? Or we don't know where to start. How do you script or storyboard or where. Where do you go? And this was. This was a theme that kept going. And the only thing that would stop him doing is money, time and expertise. Like, I just could write down, why aren't these doing more content? And that was it. Yeah, I did that prison thing, what you call it, where you just do four and the scratch through. I always forget the name, whatever. But basically I had the three things listed down. I would just go through every founder and I was like, if I can solve one of these issues, that's a good thing. But if I solve two, that's a killer business. If I solve all three, we'll own business content across the world. That's. That's the goal. And then, like I said, you just go with the escalations. Right. Originally, I spoke to some really good friends of mine who own co working spaces. And then they were like, well, first of all, they're right. Like, you went from like 80 occupancy to 0 overnight.

Nearly zero.

Some people like to held in the contracts or whatever. And they were like, well, you know, we have like 20,000 square feet of empty space. Who knows when it's gonna be filled again? We'll give you that for free. I was like, that's fucking nice. Right? Because I don't have to worry about rent. I can get this started up. And you'll understand this because you get brand. I was like, but I don't really, like, own that. Do you know what I mean? I'm gonna be some Irish cunt in the corner of a fucking co working space with cameras. Right? That's what it's going to be perceived as.

Yeah.

I was like, no, I need. Can I say that? Are you gonna get demonetized anyway?

I'm already demonetized. All right. All the time.

Yeah. But I was like, oh, I don't really want to do that because they're gonna go, that's like, that's not a brand. It's hard to build a brand when you're in someone else's building and you have to dance to their tune. Right. You have to open when they open, close when they close. And I couldn't control the vibe. But I was looking around, I was like, surely there's deals going on, retail units. Sam, who's behind the camera, he ran this Japanese clothing company actually, where you were at Rivington street before you came here. Me and one of my investors went to look at it. But bear in mind, my investors, like, who came in on this, I was basically sitting there, like in my head coming up with this thing and they were like, oh, fuck, that sounds epic if you can make that work. And they invested when it was nothing. Right. Which is really cool.

So had you decided that Startup Van was done?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, well, first of all.

With plans to come back or just.

No, no plans to come back. But I said, I said to my co founder, I was just like, I'm done with it. Right. Ran its course, did it for seven years.

Yeah, it's a long time.

That's a long time. Right. And truth be told, I think, like, there was definitely, like, in the latter stage of that business, there was definitely like co founder friction. Right. For sure. Which was just stressful.

You didn't mention a co founder.

Yeah. Tend to avoid. Just gets behind.

Right.

But we can chat about it. Right? I think, like, he moved back to Ireland years before we closed down the business and I was the only one in London. It was just like back and forward thing. And I think I wanted to do mad and then he wanted to do safe and we used to, like, we used to come up to where I am with the mad and then it ended up being like, drive more to kind of mediocrity. Right. More like. Which I think impacted the hype. It impacted who was interested. It impacted a lot of stuff. So I was like, I just kind of want free reign to whatever's in my head. We make it happen. We make sure it's wild as fuck. If it works, it works and I want that freedom to do that.

What were we saying before we cut out?

We were saying about, yeah, co founder. Just like splitting away from it.

Oh, yeah, Co founder.

Yeah.

Yes. I never had a co founder. Well, actually I did kind of be good when I had a clothing brand when I was like 20 with my mate in uni. But then he was just a fucking. At the time, he was just probably similar to yours, but he just wasn't on the same page and we went our separate ways. He went back to uni. I dropped out. Whatever. He now invested in my business. So he's come around full.

Oh shit. Well, what's he doing there?

He has a really successful agency, so. Yeah, so he did figure out.

Yeah.

But I just don't know if I could do the co founder thing. Maybe it's because I'm just lone wolf. I don't know, probably maybe too arrogant or something. I need one or at least haven't done.

I think it's honestly because a lot of people say to me, you know, the business, this business has grown a lot in the last 18 months since we launched it and then we're pushing through, doing New York, all that sort of stuff. Right. So we're going to grow like fuck. Basically you go, it must be really difficult without a co founder. You know, like things get tough, you have a bad day, blah, blah, blah. But it's a hell of a lot less tough than ever and you don't get on with or, or you feel it, you know what I mean? It's a lot, it's way worse to have that rather than just being like, oh fuck was a bad day. Oh, I'll just get on with it. Than having like a bit of friction. For sure.

Yeah. It's like I'd rather be single forever than have a girlfriend that fucking moans at me every time I do something.

That's the best analogy ever for that. Exactly it. For sure. It's exactly it. It's mental. And. But I see there's a program and I think like we're doing stuff with them so we can't not going to on them. But, but, and it does work sometimes. But there's a incubator that does matches just random people to be co founders together.

That's high risk.

Is right. It's honestly, it's mental. Yeah.

And I've seen that 50 from day one, which might not be the main consideration but like you come to sell it, you're going to. You only got half of whatever you would have had.

Yeah, well, this is it. Right. But then I do and then the only thing is people scramble for CTOs. Right? That's going to be it. Some, some can't as an idea and they go, well, I can't build this, but I have an idea and they go, I need a CTO and that's it. And they're just being like absolutely handed. But then these. Any good, like any good CTO is going to be in demand. So the idea has to be great. And if it's not, I Just see like, loads of hassle with it. Long story short, if you can do it yourself and get enough cash initially to hire people. To be totally honest, I'm really lucky with Dream Factory that I got enough traction that I can actually hire people to do the shit that I can't do. Do you know what I mean? I kind of. I feel like I've gone. I've reached like a. I reached a plateau where I can actually go, right, I can hire people to do stuff that I'm like, really fucking shit at.

Do you think you were a generalist then in the earlier years? Because I certainly was. I feel like I was good at a lot of things.

Yeah.

But not necessarily great. Yeah, Anything.

To be totally honest, if someone, like. I've definitely had nightmares about this. I've just like, who the fuck would hire me to do anything?

Yeah, for sure.

Right. I don't know. What if. If I had to get a job tomorrow, what. Where the fuck would I go? What does that look like?

Well, you wouldn't and you shouldn't because that's obviously doing the right thing.

Yeah.

If you're unharable, that's a good sign.

Yeah.

Do you reckon, like, why the. You want to be horrible if you want to do your own thing?

Yeah, yeah.

Plan B.

No, that's true.

Should never be.

Yeah, Yeah. I suppose it'd be worse if, like, oh, I can go back to being a accountant or whatever. Yeah.

It'd just be plan B point 2 rather than plan C. You know what I mean?

Yeah. That's interesting about people that I wonder, is there a higher failure rate? We should check this if you can. I wonder, is there a higher failure rate among startups? Among startups, if the failures have something to fall back on. Has to be. Right.

I reckon there would be.

That's interesting.

Starting against the wall, innit?

Yeah.

Like, I don't know about you, but I mean, when I got into entrepreneurship, I was like, I just dropped. I dropped out of union. I was working at Burger Bus. I never went down that proper real job route ever.

Yeah.

Which maybe was fortunate because I, like, I never got exposed to people whose mindset might have made me think, oh, it's too risky, or whatever. Whereas, like, I became consciously became mates with as many entrepreneurs I could.

Yeah.

So I didn't feel like a lunatic. Yeah, fucking was.

Yeah.

So it just becomes normal. Yeah, Normalized. Just. I don't even think if entrepreneurship is risky. Even though I fucked up many times, I actually, like, nearly completely screw myself up in the Past.

Yeah.

I still was like, obviously I'm scared.

What was the biggest. What was the biggest one? You're like, oh, I fucked it big time.

About two years ago, Neon Beach.

Really?

That fucking business went into administration when I was 25. I lost like seven figures.

Fuck.

Yeah. So that was my first episode of the pod.

Was it?

Everyone who watches my fault knows. That was like the horror story.

Holy. Yeah, because didn't. Because I think I met someone who was running Neon Beach. It wasn't you. Did you sell the brand?

Yeah.

Right, okay. Yeah.

Who was that?

Someone brought in a neon sign. I was like, check this. Like, do you want this neon sign?

E Complete. Is it someone to do with the complete?

Don't know. I find out. I have. I have emails.

Was it the guys at Wayfly?

Yeah.

Do you know them?

I don't know them personally. No.

I thought you might know them because Jack the founder is a mate of mine and my biggest investor now.

Oh. So yeah, no, I don't, I don't know them. And their office is.

I was. I actually walked past earlier and I was like. So I used to go there.

Did you?

I worked with them six months.

It was.

Yeah. That business out, right? Yeah. It was mental. It was very.

Yeah. Cuz they come in. Cuz obviously we have that big follow your dreams neon. So I think that's why someone.

I did that. I made that for them or they.

Bought it from and then someone. And I think it's still in the basement actually. I think they had some. They were winding stuff up or had to leave the office and they were like, hey, do you want these neon signs?

Or whatever?

Yeah, mad.

Yeah. That was meaning.

But they're supposed to be sound. But I've never actually met them personally.

Yeah, they are. They're cool.

Yeah. Yeah. But that was like bouncing back from that. But like you say you don't even think it's risky. You just like, you just. Why you just take the hit, you know, Choice but to take the hit, I suppose and just be like, yeah.

It's like mentally horrible. But I never even.

I don't even consider like, was that a slow burn? Were you like, okay, I'm seeing this coming?

No, it was incredibly quick, but it was because it grew too quick.

Really.

I mean, I'll give you the 32nd rundown because everyone that watches this knows the story. But I had two brands. I had a jewelry business which was successful doing a few million a year, profitable when I was like 23. Then I launched this neon thing on the side but it grew to like a million a month in like three months. It was ridiculous. I had an ITV deal with Love Island. A private equity interested in investing all this shit. I was just cocky, arrogant at the time. I was driving a convertible Ferrari, living in the penthouse. Thought it was invincible.

Yeah.

And I had every reason to think I was because I'd grown like completely bootstrapped to like 10 million run rate and didn't have the foundations in place. In hindsight, long story short, this fucking factory, it was like B2B custom science. It was very complicated model compared to just shipping fucking necklaces like this.

Yeah.

You've got them in a warehouse. So I had like 40 people in the Philippines working for me, which I didn't. Which worked until it didn't work. Then I had a. Basically I had a factory go bankrupt that would pay loads of money up front. They lost their main arm of the business because of COVID Spike demand supply chain.

Fuck.

And then very quickly like 3 million quid of orders disappeared. The daily mail on my door calling me a fraud. But that's how bad it got.

Holy.

Worse than you can imagine. Yeah. I had like my parents for getting people Visit their house 200 miles away looking for me.

Like no way that is up now.

It's quite funny but yeah, about the time because I survived it.

But you know what, it's that kind of black swan moment of like. But if it wasn't for Covid, it would still be.

It peaked but also crashed so quick. Which is. That's a lesson itself.

And. And we don't have to put this in. Don't want it. But did you like. Because I definitely had a mind ship mindset shift when I met like an OG founder. I was talking about dream factory and I was talking about the growth and I was talking about everything else. And I did this like, you know, we didn't go out and raise VC money. Like I got a tiny amount to be able to sign a lease and like that was it. Awesome mates basically. And I was like putting everything back in. Everything back in. He was just like the idea of a fucking business is to move cash from, from the business to you and the people who have equity in the business that deserve it. Investors, early employees, like that's the goal, to get money from there and here. Don't get ever get that fucking confused between like going along and just going until either it makes it or a bus. It's like him personally basically, as he was, as he was growing the business, he would just take some out and take some out and take some out. So now his business was fucked because of COVID co working space. But he's like. But he is like, no, he took out two and a half million pounds.

More conservative though. More risk averse is what you're saying.

Yeah, well personally, yeah, it's like more like look after yourself as the business is growing because yeah, I've always been.

In the mindset that's like I'm not remotely worried because I know that one day I'm just gonna hit it big and make 100 million one go. Which might sound ridiculous. That's what I've thought since I was like 14.

That's good.

I've never been like, I don't even save money to be honest. I've invested in a few things and whatever. But yeah, like I know that my biggest bet is building the business.

Yeah.

I don't give a. About anything else.

So if you're just, you're just like, yeah, it's interesting because I actually don't care.

Like I argue I'd be if all my businesses failed because I haven't bought property or whatever and like, yeah, I've got some stuff not sound completely in the business but I don't really care. Like that's, that's what's going to be big.

Yeah.

I'm not putting money in a ISA to get 0.5% on because I'm. My mum's telling me to.

Yeah, yeah.

I've never done that.

Yeah, it's interesting because with Dream Factory it's like I have, I have very different, very different types of investors, right. Like these are mates, early stage friends and family who gave enough money to sign that lease because again, tried startup on I didn't like save anything at all. So I was like, oh, I need to do something else. I was like, I wish I saved money to. At the year so I could just go and do this. And actually it worked out better because I was going with people who were more knowledgeable than I was about stuff to be like, hey, invest in, invested in the business and they want to see it work and they think it's a fun thing. Right. But the really conservative, a lot of them, like super conservative, which is mad for investors. Like my investors are like total opposites of like usual investors. Right. We need to see a return, shoot for the stars, blah, blah, blah. Really, really conservative, like, you know, because we were. We want to do New York and we're going to get that going. And they're like, Graham, you're putting all your chips in the middle of the table doing New York, because you get crushed, you get killed, you get 15 competitors come out and know where you put on all your chips and table for Dream Factory. You're risking it all to do that. But we just have this constant thing where it's like, it doesn't, it doesn't matter. Because if I didn't think it was the best person to do it and had the best team to do it, well, what the am I doing? Do you know what I mean? So it doesn't make any odds me putting all the chips over to the table because, like, I think we're the best team to do it.

So how did you start? Like, because I went down the fundraising route for the first time with my new thing and it was, it was with friends, mainly because I built a good network.

Yeah.

At least initially. It's kind of changing now. But how quick did you go from fuck, this is what I'm gonna do to making it real? And what was that timeline.

Like? Fucking like a few weeks.

Not long.

Yeah, not long. As I, as I said, like, you just roll with. As it escalates. Just roll with it. So I have a big. There's a lot of people get scared about. Like, you have an idea, don't tell anyone. You know, you come across people. That's right.

Such folks.

By all I just told everyone. So from startup on, obviously had a huge network, interviewed thousands of founders, loads of investors, VCs, angels, all sorts. So I just called all of them. It's like, I'm doing this. This is what it is. I spoke to a VC firm in London who were like, this fits the bill. Because they were looking at us VCs that were doing like a 16Z, going in hard on content and having in house content teams. And Also, whereas European VCs are way, way behind. So like I tell you what, we will fund as one of Europe top VCs, and they're like, we will fund this. Let's do a joint venture, you and us. And to be totally honest, I was like, just like on the sofa, my gaff baked, talking to this VC going like, fuck. Like it's one of Europe top VCs going, well, we'll back this. And bear in mind, this idea was just in my head like a couple of days before that. So I just again called, picked up the phone, called everyone going, you're one of your top VC is going to back this business, blah, blah, blah. I spoke to aj, I got an intro to One of my mates to AJ Leon, who's like, owned Misfit Creative Agency X Wall Street. Like, just crazy Cuban legend. And I was excited to tell him. I was like, I can't wait to, like, you know, flex a bit and go, oh, you know, this VC's back in DF, we're good to go, blah, blah, blah. And he was like, listen, homie, the way he talks, he's like, yeah, listen, homie, it's the shittest idea I've ever heard. And I was like, what? He goes, you don't even know what this business is. You give it half it away. Are you doing? And he like, snap me out of that asap. He's like, who's paying your fucking salary? And I was, oh, well, in the beginning, they will. He goes, they will. Exactly. Shut the fuck up because I'm in for the first check. Go raise a round of funny. And then that was it. So a couple of days. He was the first check in a couple of days. After that, I'd raised like 136k to go sign the lease, basically. But when I asked people what you think I raised for df, they always say, like, see this building, the outdoor branding? And they're all like 5 or 6 million, probably to build a. Because all coworking spaces raise that much money, that's 136k.

Well, in total.

Mm.

Yeah.

So it's like. But I. But I owe. Anytime I say that, I always see people kind of. I. Oh, I can see it in some people's faces that, like, have production companies or this or that. And then they kind of immediately go, I wonder, could we fucking raise my. Jody. Just naturally just see it. But unless you spend seven years eating dog shit, interviewing vendors, building your network and just going through those motions, you don't have a fucking hope if anyone's watching. Because it's fucking blood, sweat and tears for years, and you don't have any clue how.

Yes. You build the credibility, build the credit. People are backing you more than anything.

For sure. For sure. And fact is, I said it earlier on the thing, if anyone did go to launch a dream factory rival, it's an office building with some fucking cameras in it, not a content creation house for startups. That's what they'll have for sure.

And what was the business model in your mind initially, like, when you fucking raised that money? Had you even thought about that?

Or was it just unlimited content creation for £1,000 a year?

Is that even possible?

It was for a while. Unlimited content creation for 999, unlimited video, audio and photography directly.

That's a good deal.

Yeah, yeah. But it's mad, but we had that. We had that basement in Rivington street, which is about 600 square feet. And we just got. We. To be totally honest, I think I said this recently. I didn't say until recently. I kind of kept it close to my chest. But we signed people up for a dream factory to create content before we had cameras, because you didn't have the money to get cameras yet. So, like, people come in and seen Reddington street and seen this construction going on. I basically saw him in the dream. And then I did the initial, you know, 12 or 13 members who come in. I took that 13K and went and bought some cameras. And that's kind of how the business started. In the beginning it was like, you know, sell it before you have it, right? I was like, this is the fucking dream. You have to sometimes, right? Pre. Pre sell it. And it's class that they believe in it then. And those members are some members now. It's sick. It's a bit of a stinger to have to pay 5k, but still, it's still a bargain, right? We look after some of them, but. But sometimes you just have to. You have to do it, right? And then we. We expanded to this and we didn't raise any more money to get this. We used the profits from there to get this, which has leveled everything up, right? All I give a about is the members here, the content they produce. At the best it can be because, you know, a brand like yours, if you have access to. Here's a cell life, a content creation house, right? To create unlimited content for your brand, do a podcast around it, do product photography, do videos, do taste testing, do live events. You can basically do fucking everything. And if you have that for five grand a year on limited content and your competitor has to spend five or six grand a pop, there's only fucking one winner there. The two if you go to back one, right? And that's what I want for our members here. Unfair advantage through dream Factory.

Start charging more.

Maybe. Yeah, maybe. No, I think it's, you know, three, 300 members now and the scale works. I think we get a thousand members between this location and this location and the other one. And we've just looked at a third, so.

So New York next.

New York next.

Yeah, the same sort of spec as this was. A bigger, different.

The building is bigger in New York. Yeah. It takes time to get stuff done in New York, which I Didn't believe because people told me it would take ages to get this building. I think we had it done, start to finish and viewing it to getting it five weeks or something like that. Yeah, push it along. But New York's different beast. But I'm hoping with plans and actually we can get that done by summer. But then summer is a shit time. Like I'm like someone's a time to launch something in New York basically because everyone dips out. But we are balancing that out. But New York's definitely next for sure. I just basically did like fucking founder map and just went that. Where's the riskiest, least risky place to go is a place with the most amount of startups. So let's go there. Basically people said Manchester and Bristol and.

New York's definitely like the blue ribbon event.

Yeah, no, it is for sure. And then I think when we got this building, people in this, people who are founders, it's like that prime drink, right. People follow hype. When we got this building and a big filthy, you know, dream factory, colors on the outside and people like, people follow that hype train of like they're doing cool things. I want to be a part of it. I genuinely think we do New York and it elevates London. Right. People and founders in London will see us do New York and go want to be part of that here. The launching in New York and then.

After New York, maybe la.

Yeah, do New York or do LA soon after. I'd love to do Paris and Berlin. I think it'd be cool. But then there's like the language thing. I think we've Susie. Stepped foot in. In. In.

So is the vision to be like the content creation version of so House? Yeah, basically.

Yeah. That's what it sounds like if you're watching Nick Jones. Yeah, yeah, no, that's it. Some people say like it was. It was. I was on the fence. What way you were going to say it. Some people go the content creation version of We Work or Soho has. But you're right that it's Soho House.

Yeah, that's a better comparison.

Yeah. These days.

Yeah, well, yeah, for sure.

But. But I think it's. It's more on the outside. People go, it's a content creation house for starters. But really it's a fucking community. Right. That's how we grow. We. We actually haven't spent. And maybe we fucking should start. But we haven't spent a pound on advertising. Right. We just haven't done it. It's just be creative. We've landed in this thing where it's super good value for members, profitable for us and we create an amazing service for it. So it's just this like wheel of referrals basically and just a good reputation I get. I post like recently I've started doing it. Well, maybe since December or something. But like aggressive LinkedIn post which you know, I hated LinkedIn for so long.

Yeah, same. It's just like a bunch of fucking middle aged women posting like and breastfeeding a kid while working from home.

Yeah, something like that. Yeah. But I haven't breastfed like anyone yet. But maybe that's the next one. But I just, I don't know, it just works I suppose. Like aggressive posts are super honest and raw and I think a lot of stuff like first of all a lot of people just using chat GPT write me a LinkedIn post about growing a startup and they copy and pasted it.

Just virtue signaling it.

Yeah, there's loads of that stuff. Right. But I think we cut through and that's why that, that bell end called me out. I'm like, show me the original messages. Because there is so much shite on LinkedIn but I do it all the time. And then I put a post up on LinkedIn and I get five or six people message and say I've heard a senior post. Hilarious. Seen all about Dream Factory. Would love to come see it. Book it in, come see it. So the reputation, it means nothing without fucking a good reputation. Right. Which I think we put a lot of effort into building shit, tons of it.

Very true. Do you ever see this being like morphing into a CO workspace?

Never in a million years.

Really?

No.

Why? Maybe not a CO work space but like I feel like work and content and communities is becoming a bit more blended now. Do you know what I mean? I don't know. Like I can imagine. Well, yeah, like I think founders want to get out of their living rooms. Yeah. Which is what I've been doing. Obviously recording shit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I work from home currently. I try and go solo work. It's got membership it there but I never go because I'm like Goblin mode half the time. Yeah, it's in my, in my living room.

No, I don't know, to be totally honest. Yeah, I never want to say never to stuff like this, but I just see like, I don't know every, I just see every square foot of space in here rev and every square foot that makes rev and makes profit is the next building, is the next great you hire is right it's like, oh, it's just better gear. So I just see it like that. And I know for a fact that if I go into a building and there's space to put desks, I would rather put sets and cameras.

Yeah, true.

Because it's just more profitable per square foot. Right.

And you've got 300 members.

Yeah.

How many members do you think it.

Can have in London?

Well, London and. And globally.

Like, I think we'd have 60, 000 members worldwide.

Yeah. What's the maths on that? Be pretty big. Yeah.

Some fuckers at home doing the math on that.

Next. Well, it's been 18 months to this point.

Yeah.

Fuck, yeah. It's pretty quick.

Yeah.

And how big is the team?

So we're 15 people, these two included, huh? Yeah. So it's sick. And it's just. I think we haven't like over over stretched. I think with the Dream Factory team, people just don't. It's best team I've ever worked with. Not just saying that because two of them are here, but it's just. I see maximum effort. It's mental. Like, I see maximum effort every day because they believe in it. And I see friends of mine who have loads of mates of mine are fucking. Most of my mates have startups and have employees and everything else and I just see how their employees work and they feel like employees. They don't feel like part of it. And that's what it is. Right. I think here I want to see everyone win and I could feel that in the team and so do the members. I get messages all the time, you know. Shot with Alvin today. What a fucking legend. Really helped us out. Shot with Kyle today. Betty's a hero. I just get all this all the time and that's the difference between us winning and not.

Is everyone fully in here all the time or do you do anything remotely?

We don't do anything remote, no.

Yeah, I was gonna ask about that because currently I'm fully remote and I find it fucking. It's just not fun, is it?

No.

I was gonna say, do you think people are better because they're want to fucking be here and actually enjoy it? Because my problem is I can do everything remotely and online. I've done that for years. And it's great when you're sat in Bali having a fucking little drink and whatever and you're not getting any work done. But then it's like, well, if it's all about the end goal and you don't enjoy. I want to enjoy the process a bit more. And I think part of the reason I don't enjoy a lot of it sometimes it's just because it's just like. It's just so digital.

Yeah.

There's nothing really anymore. Which is why I refuse to do the podcast online, which is limiting. But I don't want some fucking Zoom call where no two second lag and I can't. Someone's body language.

It's not the same. It's not the same. And I always. If I see something that was recorded on Zoom, I just scroll by it. People spend too much time in Zoom anyway. Don't be.

Yeah.

In their downtime or, you know, trying to relax and watch something. Watching the Zoom interview. It's not a thing. We had to do two days working remotely because most of the team got Covid last. Last year for like a couple of days. Scratching my fucking eyes out. I was just like, what? I just need to be around people, need to be around each other. I don't. I massively respect people who can have businesses that run efficiently on. On remote work, but I'm going to get loads of hate. Like a couple of my mates have a purely remote work businesses and they're sick businesses. But even if I'm at home and I need to work remotely, let's say I have like, I don't know, to get deep into something. I don't do it that often, but I find myself at like half ten, putting on a load of washing.

Yeah.

I have to stop myself. What the fuck am I doing? Shit to do.

It's too cozy. Yeah.

It's mental. It's just too comfortable. I don't know. And if I'm doing that and I'm the founder, like someone who doesn't give a shit about the business I work for that's working remotely. I don't know. I just don't see that.

Yeah. It's weird. I think a lot of people. Well, it's just changed how it works. Everyone used to always go to the office. Now some people don't. Never went back. Some people are in between. Yeah, it's a dilemma.

Yeah.

Because like, I can't work out what's. What's the best way to scale a brand where I'm at now because it's that stage where, yeah, I can have an office, but do I really need a small office that would have, I don't know, two people in. Because half of them are in a different country. Should I force them all to be in London? Do you know what I mean? I'm not constantly debating this. I'm like, do I just get a cheaper flat? Because I wouldn't. I'm just get an office or. Because like right now I work from home, so fucking fancy flat, all this shit.

Yeah, well, I suppose if you were to. If you were to hire again, you maybe just. Or hire more people. Just hire those people in London. Because you've been office in London and one kind of.

Yes, that's what I'm trying to lean towards now, I think.

I think it makes a fucking exceptions to every rule.

There's people that have done it fully remotely. You know, you read about some fucking billionaire that built a business in Airbnbs and shit.

Yeah.

And it's like, ah. But then you look at someone like Gymshark. I'm like, ah. That is instinctively more inspiring to me. It's like you build this fucking cult and you have like actual people in a place doing shit.

I stay in off camera. I like spent a day in the Huell office.

Yeah, where's that as an area?

It's like, you know, it's like outside London. So it's like an hour and a half on a train outside London. I couldn't tap. That's how far it was. I was like, why isn't it fucking working? What's the crack to buy a train ticket? But yeah, so it's outside London, but they got the people who designed wework to design. The inside is Hue office has a full gym, nice kitchens, all like the. Has like the OG Huel bags that barely sealed and all that sort of stuff. So it's like you say it's a wanky as it sounds. It is an inspiring place to kick around because you see the brand story, you feel really connected to it.

Yeah, exactly.

Rather than like sitting in Stoke Newington and you're flat, like being disconnected from everyone. Right.

Yeah, that's how I feel.

Yeah.

It's a dilemma. It's honestly the thing I debate the most with like mates. Is it what do I need that? And at what point do you start to pivot towards that?

I mean, with Neon beach, did you have an office or do you have.

I used to share an office with my mate when I was like 22. I was so premature. I was like this. But then everything has been fully remote since then.

Has it?

I've always lived with mates in like a hustle house spec.

Yeah.

Like not being completely alone, but. And I do like the flexibility. Go to Bali.

Yeah.

I'm sick of that nomadic bullshit now.

Are you because you were like. You were like a pusher of. You were like, this is remote. Life is the way to do it. Right. Did I see you posting something I.

Used to talk about a bit more. I don't know. I think everyone has this dream of like sitting on a beach on a laptop.

Yeah.

Then you realize it's fucking shit. You don't get anything done. The WI fi is crap. I'd rather just have a holiday, which I've like never had, where I haven't actually looked at work and then just actually dial in in a place. So I think that's hard.

So when you see. When you see someone who's building a business and they're like, I'm in. I'm in Bali for, you know, the next six months building this business. You look at that going.

I am now. Because there's probably exceptions. But I've never seen anyone build anything that I would like to think I could do over the next 10 years. Doing it from Bali.

No.

Just haven't. I look at businesses like Huel Gymshark, obviously. Easy examples. But I think that's what I want to do.

Yeah. Like, could they have built that cult brand remotely from Bali?

Yeah. Certainly not the team. And would they have enjoyed it as much even if they could?

Probably not.

So I think it's just like found a loneliness. It's something I've fucking dealt with a lot.

Yeah. Yeah. It is fun.

It's lonely anyway. But if you're physically lonely. Cause you're actually by yourself a lot, then it's kind of. I won't keep talking about loneliness. We don't start playing fucking like Daniel Powder bullshit.

Yeah. Fucking out. You know, you have me thinking about this founder. Lonely is a real thing. Right. And not to go into it. No. But then you have me think of it. It's cool to gather people together.

Yeah.

See it and it's like in Dream Factory here, it's like ships in the night. Someone comes into film, someone's leaving and they cross paths.

We just said, like, just happened before this.

Like what just happened before this. Right. There's always something sick happening. And he's like, I'm shooting this content to my mates. Sent me a grand each. It's going to be sick about all this sort of stuff. Content with NIA's and. But that happens throughout the day. But you have this like minute or two crossovers, which are cool. But what would it look like if we could foster that on a bigger scale? Right. But the building in New York's 26,000 square feet. It's like you know, five or six.

Yeah, I've been trying to do this like meet up thing with the politics. So many people always message me saying dudes, do some in person, blah, blah, blah. Because I think people want it. This is fucking like generation especially like people are in their maybe early twenties now that figured out how to make money online. So like first time entrepreneurs, whatever it is, E commerce, whatever agency, but because it's all online, they've met people online, like Twitter, they've run their ads online, they've sourced products online. They've forgotten that they're like a biological human being. Yeah, I've probably fucking forgotten it as well. And now you can like have sex online, like AI and shit. Yeah. So it's only gonna get worse.

Japan, serious issues.

Yeah. They're not having kids.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I don't know. Well, you were talking to like a podcast with a studio audience and stuff or just a meal.

I've thrown it around because I came, I came up with this like side brand called Pool Party Social Club which I don't know where the fuck that came from. It was just. I liked the sound of it and it was like this 80s vibe and I thought, oh, I should do some like members club. It was going to be like nft. Yes. It was kind of inspired by that. So I should probably change the name. But I haven't done anything with it because I'm just like, I don't want to do something then people think it's shit.

You don't seem like a guy. Give a fuck about that.

No, I don't really. But I should just do it because. Yeah, the point is. Yeah, like in person shit, it's actually good.

Yeah. Do you come across founders a lot that can like add value to what you do or do you just do your own fucking. If you say lone wolf, you do your own thing.

Yeah, I mean all my mates are founders so I've got a very good circle there. I guess it's not that big but I mean the ones I speak to on a day to day basis so that's, that's good I guess. Doing the pod, I always meet people. So like three of my investors I met on the pod.

Did you?

One of them I met on the pod got pissed and he sent me the money the next morning class. So that was good.

Yeah, yeah.

That's what I like doing in person. That wouldn't have happened if you did on Zoom. Not the same thing because there's like the connection side. Especially when you have a bottle of wine.

Smash.

Yeah, exactly. It's almost like too intimate, but it's good.

Yeah.

I just think this fucking generation's missing that. Even with like dating apps and shit, this is going down the whole rabbit hole. But I just think we're kind of fucked. Do you reckon like the whole birth rate thing? Because the problem now is there's so much access to everything, so much convenience that there's like no point getting dressed up to go and meet people because I can just fucking speak to them or message some girl on Instagram or Hinge or whatever it is.

Yeah.

Which we're all guilty of.

So you think you have to put less effort in.

Everything's instant, isn't it? It's like instant gratification. Like you can just fucking look at a girl on Hinge. You don't have to go and meet someone in a bar, chat or.

Yeah, yeah.

So people are losing those skills a lot, I think. Or losing the confidence to even go out and shit.

What's your opinion on Thursdays or.

I think it's very cool. I've never really used it. I've used Hinge more because I think the stock is better on there. I'd love to get the found on the pod. George. I don't know him. I know friends that know him or whatever, but I think they've done that very, very well.

Because the reason I say is because they're doing in person stuff, right?

Yeah. So I want to do more in person stuff. Well, for the first time in person stuff for space goods. Because I've never done. Because like I was saying I am the person I described. I was running Instagram ads. That's all I've ever done. Like I grew up doing E commerce and it was all digital. Digital, which is great. But then you forget like the customers are real people.

Yeah, yeah.

Let's do some massive 10 meter inflatable mushroom in Hyde park and fucking get the police to take it down.

Yeah, yeah.

I don't know. Some shit like that.

What did you. With the jewelry brand? How much, like sourcing that jewelry? Like, what was. What was that like? Because that was your. That was the first business, right?

That was like one of my first ones that did pretty well. Yeah, yeah. And that was just like China. Yeah. So I went to China with my mate. That was a fucking weird trip.

Was it like mainland China.

Yeah. Went to Guangzhou and I got my drinks biked. I think it was some. It was a heavy night. Heavy week.

Fucking hell.

I thought it was gonna be super. I was like, oh, they're gonna be so conservative. We won't drink or anything. And the first night we're going out and we're shotting beer. That's like what they do. And every time you drink it, they fill it up. It's like culture.

Yeah. Yeah.

So I was just so fucked.

Yeah.

It was so crooked though. Some weird shit.

Really. Yeah, I had a weird couple of days in Hong Kong.

Yeah, that's a cool place as well.

Hong Kong's good crack.

Yeah.

Rogue as.

It's bad to go there now, isn't it? Like there's some.

Well, they're. They're given like there's a 500. I'm gonna butcher this. But something like 500 million. Like half a billion dollars or something like that in free flights or something to do. Basically get people to go to Hong Kong. Yeah.

Probably like post Covid got. Yeah. Someone that works for me. Lucy lives in Hong Kong. Eight hour time difference. Difficult. She's the one that probably emailed you about the pod.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Fuck man.

So it's a cool place.

Do you use any EAs or anything?

What's that?

PAs.

Executive assistant.

Yeah.

No, I probably should. She kind of.

Is that right?

To an extent. I mean she's watching. She's like my therapist as well.

Really?

So. Yeah.

How long are you working with her?

Like nine months. But that came from the pod. So she watched the pod and DM me on Twitter. So. I'm terrible at hiring.

Yeah.

I'm really shit. Don't know what the fuck I'm doing because I probably instinctively not like good at meeting new people. I feel like I'm not because I just like having my circle and that's it.

Yeah. Yeah.

So when I'm hiring someone new, which I'm doing right now, find it so difficult. I'm just too casual. Which may be good, but it's maybe not so good when you're trying to get the right people.

Yeah. Because what they're looking.

I'll speak to them like a mate when I've just met them on a fucking interview.

Yeah. And then they're like, is this dude the bobby trolls them off?

Yeah, exactly. And then like you're fully remote and shit and does it look professional? I don't know.

So I hired an EA like in December. Mental. One of my mates.

Do they go through your emails and. Yeah, because I spend way too much time.

Yeah.

Literally on Gmail. It's like my main tab.

Is it?

And I'll get 100 emails a day. Why?

One of my mates who's just been made like he just co found this new company. It's pretty sick but. But he said he got this ex, he's getting flooded and he was like dude, I'm always drowning in like admin. I just don't like doing it. I just find it really hard to sit down and just go through stuff.

I'm really shit at delegating basically. Yeah, it's like I'm just like almost autistic with it or whatever. I just like like doing it myself and it's very hard to let anyone overtake it even if they're way better than me.

Yeah.

Which they probably are.

This, this I got roped it because usually I wouldn't like get rolled into this stuff but my mate was and I trust his opinion. Opinion. He was like this changed my life. And he's not one of these like sentimental.

Yeah.

You know, I mean he just gives you straight like it's genuinely changed my life. Then I had a call with them and I was like my fear is gonna wake up every day and go what am I going to get this person to do? Paying them every month for like, for just giving them to do for the sake.

Is it like an agency?

You said it's an agency to train executive assistants. So there's some dude who built, I can't remember his name now but he built like a multi billion dollar business and he was always in interviews over the years, name dropping his ea. I was like without my ea I would not be able to build this business. And he, and then he, his EA organized a dinner that he met his wife at. He has this whole story about like his EA just like basically helped to build this life and exit of that business were fucked on the money. And I was like I want to help other founders have that same trajectory I had. So he started a thing called Athena EA where they train executive systems in the Philippines. Processes procedures like how to work with people, how to make it like really effective. So when I wake up in the morning, she's already gone through all my emails, all my slack messages, my meetings for the day, any reschedules. So that basically first hour and a half of your day of like figuring out what the is going on is already done. Which in itself is like less anxiety at the beginning of the day, right?

Yeah.

And if there's stuff going on today like I have to move this or change this or switch this. It's a quick voice note. You have like an app that has a big, massive microphone on it. It's basically hit that and go, hey, I need to change this meeting. Blah. And I'm just. It works for me because I just find it hard to concentrate.

Is it just smooth? It just works.

And then as time goes on, it's just beginning easier because she has my passport number, she has all my card details. She has like my parents address. She knows everyone's date of birth at Dream Factory. It's like all their birthdays coming up.

Yeah.

So like all the.

All the. I would miss all the time.

Yeah. Yeah. So all that stuff. And then if I have to go back to Ireland for some reason, she has, you know, she booked flights for me and my girlfriend to go back there. It's like, that's booked, that's done, Blah, blah, blah. So I don't have to like. And it's probably saving me money because I just leave everything until like three minutes before I have to go. And it ends up being way more expensive. Where it's like. But I'll send you the link to have a look. It's sick.

Yeah, that's a good idea actually, if you're vouching for it as well.

Yeah. Have a call with them and then go through like what your day looks like. And they'll be like, yeah, I don't.

Even know because I can't even speak about this, can I? What I told you about before. Before the. Start recording the thing I'm currently doing for the next two weeks, which I don't know if I can speak about it. I think you actually legally can't. But yeah, that's taken up so much time and I was praying, thinking, I can't run the fucking business, but actually it's probably just a great opportunity to realize where I'm wasting time.

Yeah. Yeah.

Because why can't I do what I think is 15 hours a day? It's probably actually like five hours of work.

Yeah. Yeah. So you can really see that. You can see.

So maybe I should look at it as a blessing in disguise. That would be the stoic way to look at it.

It's fucking difficult though. I'd be losing my mind.

Yeah.

I wonder what the fuck this is. But I would be like freaking out.

Yeah. I really shouldn't tweet about this or anything, but yeah, it's a lot of time. Potentially longer than I thought. Four weeks, five weeks.

Is it going to be that long?

That's what they said. Yeah. It's a lot of time.

But people are Gonna be like, what the Is it?

Yeah, it probably sounds super interesting. It kind of is. But, yeah, some people do.

Whatever you're doing with this two weeks, you just shouldn't.

I'd love it if I had a job. I hate it. It'd be the best thing ever, because you'd have. But I go into the movies in real life.

Like, what's that play Witness of the Prosecution. That's just real life.

Yeah, yeah.

Class.

There's nothing to do or see it. Oh, yeah, exactly. I didn't say it.

Or Titanic. Yeah, exactly like that either. Yeah.

But if I had an EA is the point. I'd probably feel much more chilled about it because I reckon I spend most of my time just looking at Internet tabs and not actually thinking.

Yeah, but they're like, do you ever read that Four Hour Work Week? I haven't read it.

I've not read it, but I know about it. Tim Ferriss.

Yeah, but being like, super efficient.

I'm trying to get better with that because I'm shit at delegating. I'm shit at planning things. I'm unorganized as fuck. My standard screen is like 25 Internet tabs.

But then you know what it is? I always follow this trap of, like, seeing how some people work and how some people do things and what other people are doing. And then for a second, I go to, like, explore it and I'm like, fuck the way we work here and the way I works. So fuck it. So looking at loads of fucking taps. Spending 15 hours a day dicking around is working.

Yeah, I guess it kind of does. I don't know what I do. I guess some. Some bits work.

There's a founder I know, and if he watches this, he's gonna know Tim. But he just kind of follows every, like, social trend that he thinks is the right thing to do.

Do.

Right. I know you mean, so. Yeah, well, people would, like, if you have mental health issues, it's really fucking shit, right? And he. He made a stand when every single one of my employees. And he publicly said this on. On LinkedIn. He publicly said it everywhere. I think Business Insider wrote an article about him because he implemented it unlimited, no questions asked. Mental health days. I talked to the con three days in, he's like, fuck that. They're all calling in. They're all just messing me going, hey, I need to lay off. See you tomorrow.

Yeah.

And then the bit. And it's a small fucking startup, right? And I just see people go, like, that's the. Like that's gonna get the attention or feels like the right thing to do.

There is a bit of a snowflake culture. Like, I don't know, I feel like I speak about my mental health and on my pod and whatever and people probably think. Think I'm a fucking sobby cunt, because I am sometimes. But I'm also just no bullshit. Like I'm not. I don't know. I think it's because I just worked in Waitrose and had to figure it out myself. So I know that I work very hard and that's what it fucking takes. You know what I mean? Like, even when I go running, I have an obsession running now. So I'm trying to do like a sub 245 marathon.

That's it.

I did a sub 3 originally and everyone said that would never happen. But I just know that if I go out for a run either I'm beating the next cunt. I'm dying.

Yeah.

Because it goes back to when I used to do rowing and shit. And it's like being in pain. It's like David Goggins. I read his books. I'm like fucking old. Gassed.

Yeah. Yeah.

Anyway, where am I going with this? Like there was like some TikTok trend of people working in San Francisco and they work like an hour a day and go and fucking get their nails painted.

Yeah. Yeah. Here's my day at Facebook.

So I just. I do wonder if this generation is just fucked because of just instant access to everything.

Could be.

But I had to disable TikTok from my phone and my laptop. Did you? Can't go on it.

Just like addicted.

Like I've got an app that blocks it.

Do you?

Yeah. Because I was just wasting too much time. I probably don't know a lot of trends now.

What's your screen time today?

Probably incredibly high.

Do you want to check it? I'll check mine.

It might be low today because of.

Where I've been, but you check the average one, right?

Yeah. Well, I think I've got the thing. Here we go. Screen time. We're not that high.

My daily average. Right. Are you ready?

Yeah. That's letting me shine.

It's that bad. My daily average is 12 hours 41 minutes.

Oh, wow. That is high.

That's. Huh.

I don't know if that's what's going on. Mine's literally not showing zero, but it's not as high as that. It's probably about six.

Yeah. That's a hell of a lot. What's yours? What I need To. I need to put this phone down one hour.

That's very low.

Well, unless that's included in my laptop.

No, I don't think it is.

What?

I. I deleted Instagram six months from my phone and then I just found myself going on, like, desktop Ins. Instagram to look at girls. So I just stopped. I just put it back and accepted that part of life.

Well, at least it's like a lesser of two evils in TikTok, right?

Yeah, exactly. That's kind of where I draw the line. Instagram, Twitter's. All right.

We put that there yet. Like, but you have to see, like, you're looking at girls, but also you're kind of maybe seeing trends or. No, you're not. You're just looking at birds, right?

Yeah, probably, Probably. But, yeah, I don't know. I've talked about this shit all day, like, where this generation's going and stuff. That's why the whole Andrew Tate thing was interesting, which I shouldn't speak about on my pod, but, like, you know, he's been banned in schools or something. Whereas a lot of what you're saying is just work hard. It's obviously, you know, controversial parts, but it's just interesting where we're going.

Yeah. I don't know, I feel like sometimes I get. I always go in about. I don't fucking. I do not buy in which I said I wrong to the fucking working need to be like a remote first company and you can't be forcing people to come to offices. And when I come out and said, fucking bullshit. You need to be. You need to get people around because you're not going to grow a business. You've a greater chance of building a great business if you have people together. I think because I see mates of mine, my housemates, work remotely. It's like, kick around playing FIFA for three. I hope their balls aren't watching, but kick around playing FIFA for fucking three hours a day.

Yeah.

In the middle of the day. Like, fuck, if you were working for me, I'd be raging. But then, like, no, you wouldn't, because you wouldn't know. Like, all right, fair. Do you know what I mean? But I. I do. I don't know. It is interesting. And then I see like. Like people I know that are a little bit younger, that I never had to work in an office. And then if they do have to go in working office, it blows our minds.

That's kind of like me. I'm so used to working remotely, I've never really done it, but I probably should, basically. And when I get out around people, I definitely feel more alive and shit.

So you get energy from being around people?

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah.

And then I still just resort to being a fucking gremlin and not even using my solo works membership, which is like a halfway house. Yeah, co working on that shit.

Yeah, yeah.

But yeah, something I gotta figure out. But yeah, you've definitely inspired me with a few things. Get a fucking EA and get people to go into an office, even if.

You do it for like three months. But I don't know how you measure, like I don't know how you measure the impact of that.

Yeah, I think different because I don't need to be in like a studio, say. Whereas obviously you do if you literally want a studio. Different.

But I suppose, yeah, I don't really have a choice with the team here. Right. It's not as if like we can remotely shoot stuff that's happening here, but unless you did it with Rev. But I don't even know if that's accurate. If you got like a team in an office in London to smash it out, if Rev increased. How do you put it down to people being in the same room? Right.

Yeah, it's difficult. The age old question. I've got a few final questions which I always seem to pivot towards. Otherwise we could get way too philosophical and everyone would fucking click off, which I always try and do. Where do you see this going over like the next five to ten years? Have you thought that far ahead? I mean, it's called Dream Factory, so you must have big dreams for it. It's a good name by the way. He came up with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then you know what the fucking mad thing is not going on a rant, but I'm excited as fuck to get this launch in the us. So I don't know if you've seen this, but a lot of like British and Irish founders, British and Irish investors, they didn't like the name really. They were just like, oh, it's a bit like. And I could tell what they're trying to say. They're a bit like, oh, it's a bit like grandiose or it's a bit like this is the Dream Factory. No, why don't you call it like Entrepreneur Studios and blah blah, blah. And like I said no because that's shite. Yeah, but, but, but I think it's like a big.

That's the equivalent of why I despise all my competitors who call their products Mushroom coffee. Call it fucking Rainbow Dust. So much better. Yeah, yeah, it's the same.

Do you have parents that just call it Mushroom Coffee?

Like dirty London nootropics, all these shitty little brands.

Yeah.

Brand packaging, Univesta or some shit.

No, it's just funny the way you said it. They aren't fucking members, are they?

Well, they're not anymore, are they?

Fuck. Brilliant.

Are they actually. Make sure we don't come in at the same time. Big scrap brown packaging. No, they were around before I was, but it's just. I like pink.

Yeah.

They watch this. They won't. They know I'm. Mate, I'm coming in.

But it is mad. I don't understand. If you're gonna do something, just max it out. Right? Like, I don't understand why you want to just come up with name. That's sick. And branding, that's next level. And just. Why would you call it. Why would you just go, oh, no, that seems like I'm bigging the business up too much. Or it's.

Yeah, that's the same reason people buy silver Vauxhall courses.

Yeah.

And I mean, there might be other reasons, but like, when I was younger, I bought a green car and everyone was like, why buying a green one? Just get a black one. It's the same logic.

Yeah. Some people just think you should blend in, you should be.

Oh, yeah, kind of. Yeah. Whereas I've just never related to that in it. Like, that's why I like pink lights and shit. No, I just like the whole dream aesthetic and I've always been into that, that whole vibe. So obviously the name. Yeah. For me it's good.

Yeah. Well, I think it's. I've already said it here. It's like 60 locations, a thousand startups in each location ASAP. Basically. That's it. That's the goal.

We basically want to need to raise loads more money to do that. Do you think? To do it quickly.

To do it quickly, yeah.

And you going through a process, which.

Is what I'm balancing with at the minute. Right.

Yeah.

Because part of me thinks it's funny that I haven't raised my money right and I've kind of played up like, I don't need to raise money.

You.

Yeah, blah, blah, blah. I've done some posts about that going, I don't need to raise money. We'll build this. We got this entire building and people think we've raised five or six million pounds and raised all. But then I'm kind of like, I can open a new one every. Like, you know, if we push it hard every six or seven months, probably. Right?

Yeah.

But then that comes with strains and then again, chips in the middle of the table, betting it all every time. Or you just go out and raise your tons of money and just go and get it done. But it probably. For it to happen quickly, as I'd like to probably have to raise money. That's the key, right?

Yeah. That's the process I'm going through right now, recently. I mean, it's probably a bit premature for me, but I got pushed into it kind of from. I mean, I'm still going through that process. So. Yeah, it's interesting.

Yeah.

But it does.

We're kind of lucky. Like, we're both kind of lucky that we're not. And I said, it's a team. We're not on it. We're not in a space where we're forced down this way. And we need to raise money because Runway is one way or another going to run out.

Yeah.

So we need to raise money to get this. We're not in that situation. We're in the money. We're in the situation to raise money to grow, not to stop ourselves from dying. Right.

Yeah, Exactly. It's not B2B SaaS, not BS, which would be different.

Thank for that.

Yeah.

B2B SaaS companies are great, by the way. Join Dream Factory. But I couldn't be dealing with it. No way. Doing my head. And if I had that, like, end. If I had. If I had like a brick wall at the end of a tunnel in a train heading towards every six, nine months, lose my. Because I don't get it. I don't get. Maybe it's because the way me and you, like, didn't go that route of like, the clear route of college or uni, getting a job, you know, growing up, and then you see, like, the levels where you can make more money and get a promotion, do all this sort of stuff. Maybe that's why I just don't understand the business that just loses money constantly. Don't really get it.

Different ball game.

Different ball game. But I understand people in different business just need to raise money. I can't be like, oh, you're a dick. You're raising money. Because it just has to be for some businesses. But it's interesting because I. I thought in my head, if I raise loads of money, I could hire like a ex chief growth officer of WeWork. Right.

Yeah.

Some countries just copy and pasted loads of WeWork locations, understands the operations behind it, how to get deals and buildings, get it done. And I spoke to Adam Newman's cousin in early December, said that she's like one of the early WeWork employees, I think maybe even the first one. She was just like, not to do her in on this, but she was just like, that's the worst. That's the worst hire you could make is like a wework employee who's done that. Because everyone's a genius at a blank checkbook, right? And when she said that, I was right.

Yeah, that's true.

You go in and go, I'll pay 20 above market rate for this rent and give me that 100 grand lamp quick. You can't like, yeah, it's like everyone's a genius when it comes to that. But it's funny because I thought, oh, that could be the route to growing this fast is hiring someone like that. Maybe it is just not from we work.

Right, yeah. I've got similar thoughts. So I'm like, yeah, raise loads of money, hire a CEO. We'll see, we'll see.

Do you, do you, do you like that vibe of like, I know someone we can talk about off camera. I don't know if I can say it, but I know somebody who had a big exit and started a new company and raised money. Like, you know, my second, my second cracking business had this big exit and as soon as I raised money, just basically dipped and got into CEO.

Yeah, I mean I'm not a CEO type. Like I just fucking. I prefer to like make movies and come up with like packaging designs. I've just become like fairly competent at the business side, which obviously need to. But yeah, I mean, even now I've been speaking to like the ex CEO of another brand that sold to private equity. It's probably too soon, but someone like that, I don't know, you just have to pay him a lot and give me equity. But is it worth it? Potentially.

And what are your personal brands tied to what you do now?

Well, I guess it is like a little bit. I mean, I never even thought of myself as a personal brand, but I started doing the pod and now fucking 16 year olds messaged me saying I've changed their life. So I guess I do. Yeah, a little bit. But yeah, I've tried not to make the brand too much because I don't want it. I think it's negative. I think it's a net negative to be too tied to a brand as a founder. Especially if you want to like exit the future. It's good to have the story as a founder and like be Known if you're looking for it. But I would never like put my face explicitly behind it.

Yeah, that was a big issue, I.

Think on the business side, like investors team or whatever. That probably helps.

Yeah, big thing in my last business was like just having to be there all the fucking time because someone's been signed a contract to film somewhere, create content for a corporate at something. I'm like, oh, yeah, we get two presenters in and they're like, no, no, we pay for you. I was, you know, you paid for a startup van to do it. No, no, we paid for you. So it was so tied to it and I was conscious of this here and I did have the fear when this launched, you know, it was so much tied to me. And Graham Hussey's done this and he had startup van, he has his network in London and did all this shit. Fuck. This is going to be something else that's tied to me. But now, to be honest, I bump into. I bump into members that are here that don't even know who the fuck I am and I don't know who they are and I meet them and it's very little that's tied to me now. Not very little, that's the wrong way to put it. But it's not all, it's not all hinged on it. Basically no one's joined us for five grand a year because I'm the founder of it, basically.

Yeah, I think there's a fine line in there. So that's what I'm trying to do.

Yeah.

Final question. And it's so cliche, but it's become my fucking bombshell at the end. If you could give three bits of advice to your 18 year old self, upon reflection, what would it be?

Fucking three.

Yeah, three. I like three.

Jesus.

Puts you on the spot. Yeah, you probably think of 10, but think of the best three.

I would say. I would go back and tell them everything is going to work out, number one. Number two would be always trust your gut, serve you well. And the third one would be blinkers on and one foot in front of the other. Don't stop. That's the three things for sure. Yeah, there's probably fucking 10, you're right. But they're the three that instinctively. I would say sick.

Well, it's been a pleasure. I feel like we could go for fucking three hours. Can we? Don't stop it. I'm not done. Yeah, as always, we'll put all the fucking links below to Dream Factory, all that. I actually feel like this is very relevant audience. Oh, yeah. Unless all these guys haven't actually started business yet. But my audience is basically all founders. That's why I always say my 7,000 subscribers is more valuable than a million people fucking clicking on some. Only fans model from India.

Yeah, for sure.

You know, there might be some exceptions, but that's what I think of the audience. So hopefully we need to. The in person thing. I'm speaking to the camera now, so, yeah, I'm actually going to do that at some point. Maybe we can do it here, something like that. Do a massive fucking mushroom piece. As always, subscribe to the pod. Cheers for watching and we'll catch you in the next episode. I can't do the mic push away, which I always do. Yeah, exactly. Boom.